The benefits of Ardern’s recent overseas trips

Written By: - Date published: 12:34 pm, July 4th, 2022 - 69 comments
Categories: australian politics, Europe, International, jacinda ardern, Media, politicans, uk politics, uncategorized, us politics - Tags:

Jacinda Ardern has just completed three overseas trips.  The cumulative benefits for the country are extraordinary and I have never witnessed anything similar from another New Zealand leader.

Just over a month ago she landed in the US as yet another school massacre occurred and her comments, which were deft yet pointed, received world attention.

She was given prominence on Stephen Colbert’s Late Show and unlike John Key did not even have to pay for the privilege.

She received an honorary doctorate from Harvard University and was asked to address its graduate class.

Her speech received world acclaim.

The New Zealand media and the odd useful contrarian supposedly from the left complained however about her reference to keyboard warriors.

She said this:

In my mind, when I read something especially horrific on my feed, I imagine it’s written by a lone person, unacquainted with personal hygiene practices, dressed in a poorly fitted superhero costume – one that is baggy in all the wrong places.

“Keyboard warrior or not though, it’s still something that has been written by a human, and it’s something that has been read by one too.”

Given the utter trashfire of online abuse she is subject to every day I thought that her comments were very restrained.  Useful idiots for the right tried to say that Jacinda had jettisoned her be kind mantra.  My view is that her comment was perfectly appropriate and an important about how you need to be kind to yourself as well as others, and know where to draw the line when the attacks become too intense.

Then there was the meeting with US President Joe Biden which was scheduled for 45 minutes but stretched to an hour and a half such was its importance.  And meeting with Vice President Kamala Harris.  And she met with UN Secretary Antonio Guterres and Californian Governor Gavin Newsom.  Not bad for a former fish and chip shop worker.

After this trip she visited newly minted Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese.  And relationships improved dramatically and quickly.  As noted by Daniel Hurst in the Guardian the change in tone between the leadership of the respective countries was pronounced:

In 2019, Ardern said bluntly after talks with Morrison in New Zealand that the issue had “become corrosive” in the trans-Tasman relationship. “Visas are not citizenship,” Morrison had replied. After the meeting in Sydney on the brink of the pandemic in 2020, Ardern accused Morrison of “deporting your people and your problems”.

The change in tone on Friday could not be more stark. Ardern was “heartened” by Albanese’s acknowledgment of her strongly held view about the problems associated with returning people who had little or no connection to New Zealand. She said she detected in Albanese “a real awareness of some of the issues that we’ve long raised”.

Albanese pledged to consider changes to the way the policy was implemented – friends: we hear you and will deal with this issue maturely – and deployed what one Twitter user described as “empathy gold”.

“And what’s clear is that, if people look at some of the cases [of visa cancellations] … it’s not surprising that the prime minister would make the strong representations that she had, because I would be, if I was in the same position,” Albanese said.

Then more recently there was a trip to Europe where Ardern had the opportunity to speak directly to Nato, and had direct meetings with held bilateral meetings with Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez, French President Emmanuel Macron, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi and Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte, and attended a formal dinner held by Felipe VI King of Spain.  And to cap things off she met with Boris Johnson and members of the UK royalty.

As well as this she finalised negotiations on a free trade treaty with the European Union, one which far exceeded earlier expectations and provides significant benefits to farmers, although if you sampled recent media you may get a contrary impression.

And at the end of this trip she had the opportunity to show her depth by discussing a number of issues in this Chatham House discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KpUv2oj7C8

The discussion is deep and involved and Ardern certainly shows the depth of intellectual rigour she brings to the job.  If you want a particular example go to the 28th minute where she discussed whether New Zealand was getting too close to Nato and to the west.

And the New Zealand media response to these three trips within a month that have achieved so much?  Pretty bitchy to be frank.  Gerard Otto’s review of five years of stardust comments suggests strongly that this is not a recent tiring but that it is a pattern.

Dr Siouxsie Wiles’ (trigger warning for right wing trolls) analysis of what is happening in the simplicity of a tweet is prescient.

https://twitter.com/SiouxsieW/status/1543338277910233088

It is strange that in Ardern we have a leader who has greater international gravias and has achieved more internationally for us as a country than any other country. Yet there is this minimising back stabbing belittling commentary that occurs which clearly is affecting our collective view of things. Why is this a feature?

Update: and almost like magic the Herald provides us with a classic example of why we cannot have meaningful discussions about politics in this country:

69 comments on “The benefits of Ardern’s recent overseas trips ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Sanctuary 1
    4 July 2022 at 12:57 pm

    Because we have a neoliberal MSM that is soaked in neoliberal received wisdom. For the MSM it is always the “government is not there to solve the problem – government is the problem.”

    They therefore see themselves as a countervailing force to an inevitably corrupt, meddling, incompetent government that would turn the country into a police state in a heartbeat if it wasn't for their relentless attacks on its credibility keeping the public alarmed.

    • Barry 1.1
      5 July 2022 at 8:38 pm

      The media hob knobs with the rich

      [I have removed your surname, I assume, from your user name because you may have typed it in error – Incognito]

  2. Mac1 2
    4 July 2022 at 1:01 pm

    "Why is this a feature?"

    Why are some men mysogynist? Indeed why do some women roll their eyes when Ms Ardern is mentioned?

    I had an night coach ride recently where the male driver referred twice to her as a 'b**ch"and also disparagingly to her Foreign minister.

    When the shuttle coach reached my colleague's home the outside light was on to which he favourably reacted but the driver said "Well, you've got her well trained".

    Where do such beliefs and the desire to pronounce them come from?

    I was the last passenger to be dropped off. The driver got a ten minute dissertation on the quality, record and improvements of this government and another as to why house prices were so high, including the failings of the Key government to build houses and train apprentices etc. Covid 19 got a mention, along with 3.2% unemployment, the Ukraine war and the sale of state housing.

    Pity the achievements of our PM overseas were not fully available on that shuttle coach trip…….

  3. Anne 3
    4 July 2022 at 1:54 pm

    Very timely. Thank-you mickysavage.

    I have come to the conclusion that the dark under-belly of racism, envy, greed and misogyny is fast becoming the dominant force in NZ. A largely malevolent MSM – much of which has been imported from elsewhere – is in part responsible, and the ultimate consequences (social and economic) for this country will be dire.

    • tc 3.2
      4 July 2022 at 3:42 pm

      Agreed and compare this to the sycophantic behavior from a fawning MSM when JK did a lame top 10 on letterman.

      Substance v style.

      • Descendant Of Smith 3.2.1
        4 July 2022 at 4:36 pm

        John Key came back with great stuff – increased spying on NZ citizens for instance.

        More importantly we got the benefit of his thinking.

        Prime minister John Key is defending his overseas travel schedule – saying his more than 40 days out of the country give him time to think.

        Already this year, he has visited Korea, the US, Indonesia, Singapore Australia, Britain, Germany and Belgium, spending around 41 days outside of New Zealand.

        ''I do enjoy it. It gives you time to think when you take a step back.

        I'm not sure what he thunk but thunk he must have. Maybe he thunk too much or maybe he thunk not enough.

        John Key’s choice not to raise women’s rights with the Saudi King and to reveal New Zealand troops' location to international media instead of telling New Zealanders first are the latest in a series of leadership lapses by the Prime Minister, the Green Party said today.

        He was very articulate with Putin.

        Mr Key was seated two away from Putin during the G20 Summit and said he had taken the opportunity to lean across during the working dinner.

        Mr Key said the conversation was largely an exchange of pleasantries but Mr Key had raised the issue of the downed Malaysian Airlines flight and concerns about lack of access to the site to allow investigators to determine what had happened and who was responsible. He had reminded Mr Putin two New Zealanders were killed in that.

        "I just said we are deeply concerned about the situation, we are very unhappy about the fact blame can't be formally apportioned and therefore responsibility taken. The advice we've had is that it's not possible to do that because it's not possible to access the site due to the ongoing conflict."

        He said Russia had rejected that and asked what Mr Putin's response was, Mr Key said "He didn't say much."

        Other people at the summit were a bit more forthright.

        A spokesman for Canada's PM Stephen Harper told CBS that when Mr Putin approached Mr Harper at the leaders' retreat, Mr Harper had responded with: "I guess I'll shake your hand but I have only one thing to say to you: You need to get out of Ukraine."

        Mr Key said he was not surprised that other leaders had expressed their views to Putin so forthrightly during the Summit.

        And who could forget the tourism conference?

        “The good news was that I was having dinner with Ngati Porou as opposed to their neighbouring iwi, which is Tuhoe, in which case I would have been the dinner, which wouldn’t have been quite so attractive.”

        • tc 3.2.1.1
          4 July 2022 at 5:23 pm

          Thanks for that. I'd almost forgotten about those profound 'reckons' and insightful analysis from the lead trader.

          • mickysavage 3.2.1.1.1
            4 July 2022 at 7:53 pm

            What I can't get my head around is that Key had to pay for international recognition. Ardern earned it. Says a lot about the difference between the two.

            • tc 3.2.1.1.1.1
              5 July 2022 at 8:21 am

              We have one of the best leaders in the world as PM. Nact and their media mates cant stand that.

  4. RP Mcmurphy 4
    4 July 2022 at 4:55 pm

    The media are hellbent on sowing discontent. they stand for the right and that right is to loot the treasury and parcel out contracts to their mates and to hell with the working class plebeian proletarian drones who do the heavy lifting. uh. thats us.

    derrrrrr

    Jacinda Ardern has pulled off major achievements that the crummy nationals party can only dream of.

    they deflect the acclaim by saying that she is more popular overseas than here at home which is simpply untrue.

    they can suck it up as far as i'm concerned

  5. Tony Veitch (not etc.) 5
    4 July 2022 at 4:57 pm

    The right have really got their knickers in a twist over the success of our wonderful PM.

    Their latest line is that she may be successful overseas but is a failure in NZ.

    As far as I can recall, the only success Key enjoyed overseas, apart from his comment – 'you gave me one eco-scientist, I can give you another' or something along those lines (who remembers what Key said?) was playing a round of golf with Obama!

    And the whole country basked in the reflected glory of that encounter. /s

  6. roblogic 6
    4 July 2022 at 4:58 pm

    All great stuff but this negative MSM coverage is having a corrosive effect. Reminds me of the complete stupidity and betrayal of democracy engaged by the American MSM that platformed Trump and hamstrung Hillary. Clickbait seeking self aggrandising fuckwits.

    The capitalist model of "news" uses psyops disinformation techniques to generate outrage and appeal to the dark side of human nature, bypassing rationality and substantive reporting.

    • arkie 6.1
      4 July 2022 at 5:45 pm

      The Clinton campaign could share some of the blame for Trump:

      In its self-described “pied piper” strategy, the Clinton campaign proposed intentionally cultivating extreme right-wing presidential candidates, hoping to turn them into the new “mainstream of the Republican Party” in order to try to increase Clinton’s chances of winning.

      The Clinton campaign and Democratic National Committee called for using far-right candidates “as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right.” Clinton’s camp insisted that Trump and other extremists should be “elevated” to “leaders of the pack” and media outlets should be told to “take them seriously.”

      https://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/

      And the Democratic Party is still at it:

      Writing in The New York Times, Jonathan Weisman reports, “Even as national Democrats set off alarms over the threats posed by far-right Republican candidates, their campaign partners are pursuing an enormously risky strategy: promoting some of those same far-right candidates in G.O.P. primaries in hopes that extremists will be easier for Democrats to beat in November.”

      Weisman cites the Democratic Party’s bolstering of Doug Mastriano (who took part in the January 6 riot and is now the Republican nominee for governor of Pennsylvania), as well as the party’s intervention other races in California, Colorado, and Michigan

      …

      It’s revealing that Republicans who intervene in Democratic contests do the opposite: They try to tamp down insurgent left-wing candidates and support centrist Democrats. As Liza Featherstone reports in Jacobin, “Several rich Donald Trump supporters have been doing a curious thing this election cycle: sending thousands of dollars to New York Democrats running for state assembly.” The Democrats receiving support are all establishment figures fending off candidates backed by the New York City Democratic Socialists of America. The Republican donors are mimicking the broader policy of the Democratic Party establishment, which has been spending big bucks to swat down progressive insurgents in congressional races across the country..

      In other words, both the Democratic establishment and Republican donors are pulling in the same direction—tugging away at the political spectrum to shift it to the right. In both cases, the desire is for a political spectrum that runs from the far right to the centrist Democrats, with the left excluded.

      https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/centrist-democrats-right-wing-gop/

      TINA continues.

    • peter sim 6.2
      4 July 2022 at 10:19 pm

      MSM sell advertising. Truth, honesty, integrity are irrelevant. OBTW shareholders have interests and influence as well. Being sceptical is useful.

    • Patricia Bremner 6.3
      5 July 2022 at 12:22 pm

      yes Robologic.

  7. Patricia Bremner 7
    4 July 2022 at 5:18 pm

    Jacinda Ardern is a shining star.

    She has the rare quality of cut through, but better than that she increases her networks.

    The fact she is welcomed as special should be recognised, and not belittled by those who have had negligible experience of her responsibilities and abilities. Body’s cartoon…says it all, and Siouxsie Wile’s Tweet gold.

    The Herald’s pettiness is sad. We are fortunate to have such a Leader. Keep safe PM. Keep well.

  8. Anne 8
    4 July 2022 at 5:30 pm

    "All great stuff but this negative MSM coverage is having a corrosive effect

    Is it ever! I'm fast losing respect for the average NZer. Plenty of brawn, but not much in the way of brain.

  9. Muttonbird 9
    4 July 2022 at 5:44 pm

    That Gerard Otto piece is brutal.

    One thing Labour don't do is initiate road infrastructure. Last significant one being the Waterview interchange? It's not because they can't, it's because they won't. They want to explore fixed, long-term, sustainable transport solutions like light rail. Problem is there's so much oppostion to massive legacy projects like that in this country. We are still a pioneer nation, too small minded to invest in the future in any meaningful way.

    • Poission 9.1
      4 July 2022 at 6:15 pm

      Light rail is financially unsustainable the 20b$+ for Auckland is high risk,the 7.5b$ for Wellington LR is more a political stunt (Concomitant with Paul Eagles announcement) then a wise use of funds.

      the existing electric rail system needs a billion $ injection,and upgrades of around 7.3b,all of these projects will be funded on debt of which we already owe overseas creditors 512b$,and interest payments being paid in debt.

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/129104982/wellington-train-network-faces-billiondollar-overhaul-to-keep-pace-with-growth

      • Muttonbird 9.1.1
        4 July 2022 at 6:18 pm

        I get it's expensive but both these projects are airport link specific and as such are largely/equally post funded by foreign tourist revenue.

        That is a fact, and I do hope this truth has been factored into the models.

        These airports aren’t going anywhere, ever, so it’s time to connect them properly. If not now, when?

        • Poission 9.1.1.1
          4 July 2022 at 6:32 pm

          Because they are airport linked that it is troublesome.As forward hedges expire on fuel,there is talk of 20% price increases on flights.Extrapolating past numbers ( pre covid) is more PR ,then rigorous audit.

          Reinstating the airport bus service in Wgtn (with electric buses) and a 10 minute service will reduce traffic flows significantly for discretionary travellers,and there is already a second (bus) tunnel available.

      • KJT 9.1.2
        6 July 2022 at 8:39 am

        So.. Less than National's projected long term spend on roads.

        How does National fund them. Magic fairies?

        • Poission 9.1.2.1
          6 July 2022 at 11:52 am

          The roading issue is a different issue from public transport to airports in 2 cities.

          The significant issues with both governance,overuns and build blowouts with CRL should be a warning.

          The other light rail extension for wgn,is also a design project for the reengineering of the Wgn, housing market,with high rise on the routes to cram another 80000 people into the southern suburbs,at the expense of the existing housing estate.

          The limits to growth are already financial constrained,the gvt needs to focus on sustainable growth,not imported debt (of which we cannot repay)

  10. Mat Simpson 10
    4 July 2022 at 8:01 pm

    Its all ok Mickey you have done all you need to do to secure a job with your idol.

    " It is strange that in Ardern we have a leader who has greater international gravias and has achieved more internationally for us as a country than any other country.

    Yes and they are all the same Mickey they shine on the international stage but when it comes to actually doing real shit for their many thousands of wage slave's whose vote they solicit with the promise of actually addressing the neo liberal draconian policies they continue to adhere to she is much more comfortable with adulation than actually being a REAL Labour leader not just an imposter who harps on about kindness but has no idea about real life in real Hobbiton.

    She has an un precedented MMP majority and has in the last two years done nothing of any real value in terms of the harshness of the policies they know are crippling so many and I see this every day in dealing with many impoverished mentally unwell people who barely survive.

    Its not all about international junkets and teit a teit's its about doing what the Labour party used to do provide hope , support , policies and authority in the cause of standing against the evils of capitalism and being a trusted voice for the many not the elite few.

    Even many of my union members despise this LINO government who once again have been shafted by Adern , Robertson and Little with a derisory 3% pay offer that will do nothing to address the hardship so many people are dealing with.

    Fish and chips with a sprinkling of stardust anyone.

    • Ad 10.1
      4 July 2022 at 8:56 pm

      This government is one of the most interventionist governments in the world. If you are looking for better developed-world government than this in the world, go right ahead and show it.

      It's the only developed-country government in the world actively reaggregating the state and its services away from devolution and corporatisation and back into strong centralisation.

      What you deride as "junkets" is the stuff that New Zealand Prime Ministers have to do, because we are one of the smallest and most isolated countries in the world and will always be. Our Prime Ministers actually have to do the work of sustaining the rules-based order that we rely upon.

      • Mat Simpson 10.1.1
        4 July 2022 at 9:26 pm

        " It's the only developed-country government in the world actively reaggregating the state and its services away from devolution and corporatisation and back into strong centralisation.

        Well that's a joke its called pretend counter capitalism.

        "What you deride as "junkets" is the stuff that New Zealand Prime Ministers have to do "

        No it is a junket and she is on a tax payer funded future career building exercise which is great for her while many people in this county are maligned and impoverished.

        ” Our Prime Ministers actually have to do the work of sustaining the rules-based order that we rely upon.

        That is the problem the rules -based order ..we follow not lead.

        “This government is one of the most interventionist governments in the world ”

        No its not and go back and look up what interventionist actually means in an economic sense.

    • mickysavage 10.2
      5 July 2022 at 8:04 am

      Gee Matt your comment is so conclusive and so lacking in any sort of nuance that I do not know where to start but …

      Firstly I am not going for a job with Jacinda. I have two already thank you.

      Your comment has shades of Monty Python’s what ever have the Romans done for us? And the response is similar.

      In no particular order and in an attempt to keep the list short the Government has:

      1. Seen us through so far a global pandemic. Our death rate is ahead of every other western nation except for Japan which it is comparable with.
      2. Our unemployment rate is at 3.2% which is as low as it has been since the 1970s.
      3. Benefit levels have been increased substantially.
      4. Health funding has been increased dramatically.
      5. Trades trading has been increased significantly.
      6. Regular minimum wage increases
      7. Pushing ahead with fair pay agreements.
      8. Instituted child poverty measurements and have shown improvements across all nine categories.
      9. Passed the zero carbon act.
      10. Healthy school lunches for 200,000 students.

      If you need more detail you can go to https://www.labour.org.nz/our-record

  11. Ad 11
    4 July 2022 at 8:34 pm

    I find Prime Minister Ardern a lot more convincing when she can show that she delivers specific outcomes and agreements. The initiatives she was able to demonstrate in the Chatham House interview against terrorist livestreaming were very important.

    Also her repudiating the BBC questionner who presumed an automatic analogy between Russia-Ukraine and China-Taiwan was a stout-hearted principle.

    Ardern's big weakness however is that she relies on a rules-based world order to deliver security, but then doesn't want to join one. Similarly she continues to rely on global trade rule frameworks, and take advantage of global security networks, but also wants always to stand back and remain independent and to a fault.

    I don't think it's that kind of world anymore.

    Ardern needs to pick a side, not just pick a rule.

    • Mat Simpson 11.1
      4 July 2022 at 9:28 pm

      " Ardern's big weakness however is that she relies on a rules-based world order to deliver security,

      Yes that pretty much sums up the current junket and domestic failings.

      • Kiwijoker 11.1.1
        5 July 2022 at 1:09 pm

        Mat, unless you know what’s involved in one of these “ junkets” I’d keep my own counsel.
        Have you ever been on an offshore trade mission? Ive been on several and let me assure you the pace, timing and itineraries can be brutal. Looking at the Prime Ministers itinerary, her meetings list and the levels of negotiation she has engaged in I’m in awe of her stamina, her ability to achieve results and her intellectual strength demonstrated by her performance at Chatham House at the end of the European section of her mission. Outstanding.

  12. Erica Sabbage 12
    4 July 2022 at 8:39 pm

    Ever since our World Famous Prime Minister took the role of PM she has constantly been attacked and belittled by white male and female National Party people. They despised the fact she was so popular and everyone adored her. They set out to depose her in every way and as their people have taken over the media and radio networks they make sure that they put a negative spin on every little achievement that otherwise the overseas coverage would give her. Words fail me in trying to understand how they get away with such blatant disrespect. How she puts up with it I do not know! Yet she continues to smile and remains calm at all times. Jacinda Ardern has my utmost respect as a superb Prime Minister and a wonderful person in every possible way. I’m inclined to think that if the National Party do get their way and she is voted out at the next election then we will be the laughing stock of the World!

    • Mat Simpson 12.1
      4 July 2022 at 9:39 pm

      I’m inclined to think that if the National Party do get their way and she is voted out at the next election then we will be the laughing stock of the World!

      No the world couldn't care less and she will be forgotten as soon as the next PM is sworn in.

      They had the chance to really re set the narrative with an unprecedented MMP majority but chose to re package the same old neo liberal polices hoping for a different outcome.

      A turd is still a turd no matter what paper it is wrapped in.

      • Anne 12.1.1
        4 July 2022 at 10:09 pm

        "A turd is still a turd no matter what paper it is wrapped in."

        I think that aptly describes your contributions.

        • Mat Simpson 12.1.1.1
          4 July 2022 at 11:09 pm

          " "A turd is still a turd no matter what paper it is wrapped in."

          I think that aptly describes your contributions.

          Oh Anne I'm sorry you took that line. I have often commented and been critical if I think its warranted regarding not just Labour but National and their miserable failings and I have often agreed with your contributions.

          In my opinion it is the neo liberal economic system that is hurting so many people i see and assist every day in mental health and that Adern after five years has not made the unfair and unequal system better because they keep trying the same band aid solutions which just aren't going to work and they aren't hence my comment about re packaging.

          • Descendant Of Smith 12.1.1.1.1
            4 July 2022 at 11:24 pm

            I think DHB's have failed mental health big time. From ever reducing bed numbers, reduced community spending, not being able to spend the money they have actually been given, less and less hours of support, reducing respite care and so on and so on. Staff leaving – well when DHB management tell you that you should come to work and expect to get hit each day, when serious incidents aren't reported to OSH e.g. a staff member being knocked out three time sin a week and suffering brain damage, and when incident reports that staff have completed mysteriously disappear from the managers office and calls for better security go unheeded there isn't a lot of reason to stay.

            I'm pleased the DHB's are gone and hope now that some serious steps are taken to address the medical needs of mental health. It needs to happen now before the ever increasing number of elderly baby boomers (many with dementia) swamps the system.

            • Mat Simpson 12.1.1.1.1.1
              5 July 2022 at 10:13 am

              Thank you Descendant of Smith. I hope we will see the money allocated for mental health delivered and up to now the has been very little in the way of funding since the announcement and yes you make a good point regarding the aged care sector and the support that will be needed for future dementia patients.

          • Anne 12.1.1.1.2
            5 July 2022 at 10:21 am

            In my opinion it is the neo liberal economic system that is hurting so many people i see and assist every day in mental health and that Adern after five years has not made the unfair and unequal system better …

            Now I can see where you’re coming from Mat. I am in total agreement about neoliberalism and will reveal something of my past. I joined the ACT party for a couple of years in the 1990s. My motivation was to find out what they were all about. Be assured those years were not wasted. I found out a great deal… some of which I have yet to share.

            I understand your concern re-mental health patients and the precarious state of mental health care. Indeed it is an ongoing problem for a branch of my family. But thirty-five years of neoliberalism takes a hell of a long time to unwind – at an economic and political level. If this government were to try to do it too quickly they would scare the horses and bang goes the chance of bringing about any meaningful change.

            A Nat-led government would be a disaster because they are proven apostles of the neoliberal order and will never countenance any reversion back to something akin to what we had prior to the 1980s.

            • Mat Simpson 12.1.1.1.2.1
              5 July 2022 at 2:09 pm

              Thanks Anne that is a relief as I do not want to be offside with you and I often agree with your overall comments and I appreciate your memory when it comes to our recent past before Rogernomics and the NZLP as it used to be.

              Sometimes my argument just needs clarification which the participants on this site are quick to spot and fair enough.

              Without being to contradictory with my comments about Jacinda Adern I do acknowledge her work in preventing the pandemic from being much worse as I am sure we would have seen under the Nats and that in itself is a defining difference.

    • Anne 12.2
      4 July 2022 at 10:03 pm

      Superb comment Erica Sabbage.

      A case in point mentioned by mickysavage is the demeaning story in today's Herald about Jacinda Ardern "channeling" the Duchess of Cambridge. She was wearing a simple white dress that happened to closely resemble a dress worn by the Duchess in – wait for it… 2016!

      Given that it is a design worn by countless millions of women over many decades, to suggest the Prime Minister had the time and inclination to go back six years of Kate's fashion outfits and choose that outfit is absurd.

      It is time Ardern – or someone on her behalf – openly took the Herald to task for such pitiful reporting. Imo, it is yet another attempt to sow the seed in people's minds that she is a simple-minded clothes-horse. And if she didn't bother to dress smartly they would be representing her as a shabbily attired charlatan. and a disgrace to our overseas image.

  13. Patricia Bremner 13
    4 July 2022 at 10:38 pm

    Some turds are misogyny wrapped in bile. Old fashioned ideas in a modern world.

    Where were you Matt Simpson when Andrew Little was trying to get collective bargaining going again? It is happening…but

    Not a peep until now. Your gripe is a personal one as well.

    Are you one of the "PM is jaunting crowd? All ok if she was he in a suit?

    If we don't value what we have there are plenty out there who will, though she intends to stand again luckily for us.

    It takes time to make real change, and she does not have a bloody wand, though too many hope she has, and that because they voted for her she should be bloody Joan of Arc.

    Life is hard for some, but that is a World situation made worse by lies and exaggerations.

    I have no patience with the moaning bods any more, as they are mainly crying "Poor me" in a pandemic and now a possible World War.

    Change, yes you may get it, but be sure it will not be as you expect.

    Many like me realise she is special, and the fight back against the 'grind her down" starts now.

    • Mat Simpson 13.1
      4 July 2022 at 11:20 pm

      "Not a peep until now. Your gripe is a personal one as well "

      Are you one of the "PM is jaunting crowd? All ok if she was he in a suit?

      First I have commented many times on this site about the ongoing inaction regarding the failure of Labour to deliver for the many people in this country that take second place when it comes to the priorities of the same usual suspects and it is personal for me and many other heath care workers and in my case dealing with the destitution of many in mental health who are tired of people like Adern who promise to make changes but in reality it does not happen.

      Second i don't care if the office of PM is held by a male , female , transgender or a creature from Mars in a suit or without one but I hold anyone in that office to account on what I see that is failing in this country.

      I make no apologies for that

      • Scotty 13.1.1
        5 July 2022 at 5:46 am

        Pehaps you could remind everyone of the concerns you aired during the Ryall /Coleman years Matt – just as a comparison.

        • Mat Simpson 13.1.1.1
          5 July 2022 at 10:02 am

          Thank you Patricia for your questions.

          1 used to contribute on this site in 2016 from memory before Key resigned and under a different name yes and I also contributed to The Daily blog.

          2 In regard to Scotty I did intend to reply but a the loss of a colleague diverted my attention.

          3 I was not a mental health worker while Key was PM and not receiving the minimum wage but I worked with and knew people who were under paid and trying to survive.

          4 As for Mickey I withdraw the comment and I will apologise in my reply to him.

          [I noticed that you have been using your two aliases interchangeably even quite recently and to your credit, you acknowledge this, so thank you for that. However, as you can tell, this can sometimes confuse (some) people and can also ‘irritate’ Mods. So, please stick to one user name from now on. Thanks in advance – Incognito]

          • Patricia Bremner 13.1.1.1.1
            5 July 2022 at 12:02 pm

            Thank you for your reply Mat. We debate here (though I am biased as Labour 'till I die.) I read your replies to others, and thanks for clearing up those points.

            We all hope funding improves for your area and goes to services not just Managers.

            • Mat Simpson 13.1.1.1.1.1
              5 July 2022 at 2:54 pm

              " Thank you for your reply Mat. We debate here (though I am biased as Labour 'till I die "

              Patricia I am relieved to read that. We have often agreed on different positions and I have always appreciated your contributions on this site.

              I am biased when it comes to anything that is not the market economy we have now and those who continue to try and resolve its many damaging unfair aspects by tinkering and selling the idea that the " market " approach will address the carnage that neo liberal policies have created.

              I am waiting to see the two billion budgeted for mental health to be allocated and more importantly spent wisely and reaching a part of our community who are seriously at risk and the many damaged Kiwis who don't realise yet that they will need our care and compassion and not just a figure on a balance sheet.

          • Incognito 13.1.1.1.2
            5 July 2022 at 12:11 pm

            Mod note

          • Mat Simpson 13.1.1.1.3
            5 July 2022 at 1:54 pm

            Yes totally understand Thank you.

        • Mat Simpson 13.1.1.2
          5 July 2022 at 10:06 am

          Hi Scotty thanks for your question.

          Unlike your name mine is spelt with one T.

          As for Ryall and Coleman yes I would have commented particularly in Colemans case and as for Ryall I don't remember contributing during his time as minister.

      • Patricia Bremner 13.1.2
        5 July 2022 at 7:23 am

        I looked up your history on this site, to check again your previous contributions. I could locate one earlier post, unless you have changed your name.

        Your opening comment about Micky was personal and nasty and implied he wrote here for personal gain. You lost mana here with that, as it is you wanting something personal, not Micky.
        Good on you for working in that field, and as Dos said, the DHB’s have not helped. A sick system is being changed and allocated funds will now go where intended.

        Scotty asked you for proof of critical previous posts here during Key's reign…waiting?

        Tell me, did you get a 3% rise in Key's tenure? or was it 50 cents an hour?

  14. Reality 14
    5 July 2022 at 11:02 am

    The more recognised and applauded our PM becomes overseas, the more angry, jealous and misognystic many NZ men become. Tall poppy syndrome in full flight.

  15. Mat Simpson 15
    5 July 2022 at 2:25 pm

    " the more angry, jealous and misognystic many NZ men become "

    Totally agree but that was a dig at me because I criticised the PM but I can assure you I am not in the least bit misogynistic and you should not assume that every male thinks that way just because the make a remark about a PM who happens to be a woman.

    I saw the way Helen Kelly and Helen Clark were treated and that behaviour made me ashamed of us as a country and I have never forgotten it.

    Man or woman whoever it is sworn in to the office I hold accountable on what they say and more importantly what they do for the many marginalized and impoverished who gave Labour their vote.

    Angry you bet when I see our children denied the right to a good quality of life because the neo liberal economic system rewards only a few.

    Jealous ? I used to be but found it was a waste of time.

    We as a nation have incredible woman who are contributing and are intelligent and resilient and we are a better country for that.

    • Patricia Bremner 15.1
      5 July 2022 at 7:23 pm

      Mat we were thinking more of Hoskins. Emotion is allowed. Yes we want more but remember how hard she is working. She has grace and makes it look easy. That riles some.

  16. Jock Churchman 16
    6 July 2022 at 12:29 pm

    I am a Kiwi expat living in Australia. I have just endured 3 years of the most incompetent, lying, hypocritical PM imaginable. Even worse than Piggy Muldoon. In the words of a famous Kiwi expat, the much lamented John Clarke, New Zealand "you don't know how lucky you are" to have Jacinda Ardern in charge. She presents a shining light on New Zealand/Aotearoa and her authenticity and commitment is virtually unique among world leaders. Australia now has a PM who promises well. He (Anthony Albanese) has also been travelling the world. That is important. He also has plenty of problems to deal with at home. Similar problems to those in New Zealand. It is the troubled times we live in. The world, as well as New Zealand, needs Jacinda Ardern more than ever.

  17. Jocelyn Moloney 17
    7 July 2022 at 11:18 pm

    It’s baffling why some NZers belittle Jacinda Adern but I think it’s the main stream media which is dominated by the far right. The journalists seem to go along with what the ex-National Party MP wants them to say because he is CEO. Will we ever be large enough to fund an independent news source?

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.