The terrorism card

Written By: - Date published: 7:35 am, October 9th, 2014 - 46 comments
Categories: defence, International, john key - Tags: , , ,

Key clearly intends to play the terrorism card for all it’s worth during this term:

Key plans major speech on terror threat

[Key] has signalled a shake-up of Security Intelligence Service laws after announcing a big break with tradition by relinquishing day-to-day oversight of the Security Intelligence Service and the Government Communications Security Bureau.

He is also planning a major speech once Parliament resumes that looks set to challenge Kiwi perceptions that New Zealand is far removed from terrorist threats.

The speech signals Key’s intention to front-foot security and intelligence issues more aggressively after much of National’s second term was beset by controversy surrounding the GCSB.

Key warned that New Zealand was in a far from benign environment, using the rise of Kiwis seeking to join groups like the Islamic State (Isis) as an example. … “The number currently fighting overseas . . . is relatively small but it’s certainly far more than one or two.”

Sounds weak doesn’t it. It gets weaker:

Isis fight: NZ won’t be a target – PM

Any New Zealand commitment of military assistance to counter Islamic State militants in Iraq should not make New Zealand more of a target for terrorism, Prime Minister John Key says.

So, Key wants us to believe that because “far more than one or two” New Zealanders are joining groups such as Isis, we are all at risk of terrorist attack. (This justifies new spying legislation, the creation of Key’s new ministerial role, and his dodging responsibility for the GCSB and SIS.) But Key also wants us to believe that sending troops to – you know – fight Isis – should not make New Zealand more of a target for terrorism.

Both of those claims cannot be true, but the PM knows he can get away with anything now, so he does. Key’s terrorism card is a joker, and the joke is on us.

46 comments on “The terrorism card ”

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  1. b waghorn 1
    9 October 2014 at 7:55 am

    My elderly parents are in oz and on internal flights are have to remove there shoes to be searched is this our future?

    • shona 1.1
      9 October 2014 at 9:53 am

      Been that way in Aussie for over 10 years. Us old folks with grey hair get picked on the most. Ev eery time I go to Aussie I get swept for explosives and have my shoes inspected etc etc hell I even got strip searched in fu*king Samoa. Jumped up parking wardens the lot of them I am not afraid to treat them accordingly. Oh and
      the USA is worse they search you and your bags and shoes when entering any public facility . Domestic flights in the USA are worse than Aussie. Travel is sh*t these days.

    • shona 1.2
      9 October 2014 at 10:01 am

      In war, truth is the first casualty. Aeschylus Greek tragic dramatist (525 BC – 456 BC)

  2. Dont worry. Be happy 2
    9 October 2014 at 8:23 am

    Looks like a social experiment to see how compliant the population will be when ordered around….more and more “orders”, more and more compliance. Training in effect.

  3. cogito 3
    9 October 2014 at 8:31 am

    “Both of those claims cannot be true, but the PM knows he can get away with anything now, so he does”.

    Very true, and very dangerous.

  4. Tracey aka Rawshark 4
    9 October 2014 at 8:39 am

    they could both be true if the current threat is the same as any threat if we fight ISIS?

    Its incredible to see how easily this tactic is working on the populace.

    Still more likely to die in a car.

    I support humanitarian and medical aid. Yesterday someone scoffed at medical aid on the basis any nurse could do it. I understand new zealands military medical teams are very highly regarded around the world.

    • Murray Rawshark 4.1
      10 October 2014 at 1:55 am

      Yes, they are highly regarded. At least half of this comes from treating the locals as human beings.

  5. Ted Blaikie 5
    9 October 2014 at 8:54 am

    Hermann Göring:

    “The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.”

    It’s a pity that Key is not as open about his methodology as the Nazi were, then New Zealanders wouldn’t have to see past his smiles.

    • cogito 5.1
      9 October 2014 at 9:16 am

      Great quote that absolutely sums up Herr Key.

      The problem with ISIS/Iraq is that it’s like ebola – the moment you go near it, even to provide assistance, you risk spreading the contagion further… and bringing it closer to home.

      • RedLogixFormes 5.1.1
        9 October 2014 at 10:55 am

        we are already part of it and people like you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

        Ah yes – and anyone who questions the rush to mass murder is pilloried as a traitor.

        Very old game.

  6. Tracey 6
    9 October 2014 at 9:01 am

    Taleban
    Al Queda
    Isis

    How is the eradication working out to date through force and massive deaths of civillians

  7. kenny 7
    9 October 2014 at 9:33 am

    John Key thinks he can get away with anything he wants to purely because he has the media in his pocket. All he has to do is keep stroking their ego’s and they will go along with anything he says. Has there ever been a PM more willing to suck up to the media than this one? For very good reasons of course.

    Michelle Boag has a lot to answer for – I wonder how John Key’s name came up as a possible recruit to the National party; after all I don’t think he was living in NZ and hadn’t been for some time and he doesn’t strike me as someone who would be overly interested in politics, so who suggested to her he might?

    This kind of behaviour seems to be prevalent throughout the Anglo-American world at present – who is going to stop it? Certainly not those who have the responsibilty and duty to protect our democracy; the police seem to be headed by officers who are complicit in the dirty tricks of Key and his party.

  8. shona 8
    9 October 2014 at 9:48 am

    Taliban, Al Queda, ISIS all use USA made weapons paid for with Saudi money. who does John Key work for ? … The USA.

    • Murray Rawshark 8.1
      10 October 2014 at 2:02 am

      Not quite, Shona. Most of the weapons in that area are Russian or Chinese. The most common rifles are from the Kalashnikov family. The ISIL tanks I’ve seen are Russian. Any American weapons they have are mostly captured from the useless puppet Iraqi forces.

      http://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/10/08/isis-using-chinese-american-and-russian-manufactured-weapons

      • Richard RAWSHARK 8.1.1
        10 October 2014 at 5:30 pm

        Those captured LMG’s on TV last night were US, I thought not 100% on it, perhaps an LS or maybe they were mg39’s to small for any of the B models like the 240. The rocket launcher looked soviet.

        I’ve only seen one shot of the ISIS tanks couldn’t make out the model? Can you elaborate out of curiosity.

        • Murray Rawshark 8.1.1.1
          10 October 2014 at 7:55 pm

          They’re T54/55s. They could be from either Russia or China, and were apparently captured from the heroic American trained puppet Iraqi forces. I’ve read that they also have some T72s, but haven’t seen any photos of these. They captured a few M1A1 Abrams as well, but even the well equipped Australian army finds these very difficult to use.

          • Richard RAWSHARK 8.1.1.1.1
            11 October 2014 at 7:15 am

            Aussies..typical, I’ve heard good things about the Abrams but perhaps to master a tank with more military bling than Mr T, you’ll need more than an Aussie bogan.

            I mean remember the bowling, they like things simple over there.

            (Richard believes when slagging Aussies the bowling should always be mentioned)

            Do they have enough tanks to make an Apache quite busy for half an hour or so?. I wonder how many they have operating with competent crews.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.1.1.2
            11 October 2014 at 7:28 am

            How long are these tanks going to last in daily operations? Have ISIS the long-term capability to maintain them – especially in the relatively harsh conditions? If they can keep them from getting blown up that is.

  9. vto 9
    9 October 2014 at 9:53 am

    My view is that this is all wrong and we / the west are heading into a long protracted war with the risk in a few years of conscription. Fortunately I am too old to squeeze a trigger but some around us will be in the firing line and I do not like that not one little bit.

    We must keep in mind that given the US and Australia and the UK and France are all at war, and Key wants NZ to go to war as well, that all information and announcements in relation to it is now full blown propaganda.

    There is no truth in anything about this war. We are being pounded with propaganda. Do not believe it. This is the sole truth about war.

    • cogito 9.1
      9 October 2014 at 10:06 am

      A worldwide conflict is looming. And why are we being dragged in? So that Key can play golf with Obama? We are truly like sheep.

      • Gonzo 9.1.1
        9 October 2014 at 10:44 am

        You just answered your own question. If “worldwide conflict is looming” we are not being dragged in, we are already part of it and people like you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

        • vto 9.1.1.1
          9 October 2014 at 10:48 am

          what?

        • framu 9.1.1.2
          9 October 2014 at 10:53 am

          The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country

          didnt really expect that to be demonstrated this quickly

        • cogito 9.1.1.3
          9 October 2014 at 10:59 am

          @Gonzo

          “people like you are part of the problem”

          How exactly am I part of the problem, or do you routinely engage in baseless and unsubstantiated insults of people you know nothing about?

        • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.4
          9 October 2014 at 4:33 pm

          Actually, it’s people like you who are the problem. You jump in, guns blazing, where you’re not wanted nor needed. The best thing we could do for the Middle East is to withdraw but the PTB don’t want that because it means that they will lose access to the oil that keeps Western Civilisation going.

          Of course, if we did some R&D and investment into clean, sustainable energy and reduced the amount of shear useless consumption that we use to measure GDP we wouldn’t need the oil. We’d also be better off and healthier.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.1.5
          9 October 2014 at 5:10 pm

          What’s “the solution”? “We” have been bombing people for sixty years now, and that doesn’t seem to be turning out very well for anybody, especially now the theatre of war is expanding into hometown. Or perhaps it was already there, in the sense of occupying forces gathering strength.

          If worldwide conflict is looming, we ask ourselves the old questions:

          Which ruler has the Way,
          which general has the ability,
          which has gained Heaven and Ground,
          which carried out Law and commands,
          which army is strong,
          which officers and soldiers are trained,
          which reward and punish clearly,
          by means of these, I know victory and defeat!

          Victory is by no means assured, quite apart from the fact that you’ve no idea what victory looks like. It sure as hell ain’t sixty more years of war.

        • David H 9.1.1.6
          13 October 2014 at 9:16 am

          And I thought that Gonzo was a Clowns name, not a Sheeples.

  10. Shark War 10
    9 October 2014 at 10:07 am

    Interesting articles pointing to internal, rather than external threats to US government.

    http://rt.com/usa/177892-sovereign-citizen-terrorist-threat/

    Sovereign citizens seen as top terrorist threat by US law enforcement (recent survey)

    http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/08/dhs-funded-report-sovereign-citizens-greatest-threat-to-us-3006120.html
    Other groups considered potential domestic terrorists include
    1. Sovereign Citizens
    2. Islamic Extremists/Jihadists
    3. Militia/Patriot
    4. Racist Skinheads
    5. Neo-Nazis
    6. Extreme Animal Rightists
    7. Extreme Environmentalists
    8. Ku Klux Klan
    9. Left-wing Revolutionaries
    10. Extreme Anti-Abortion
    11. Black Nationalists
    12. Extreme Anti-Tax
    13. Extreme Anti-Immigration
    14. Christian Identity
    15. Idiosyncratic Sectarians
    16. Reconstructed Traditions

    You could say they are extreme groups, but here is a key point, where do you draw the line, at what point do you become an extremist, is it when you start talking about Big Government?

    Interesting the threat is appearing to come from within the country and not outside.

    Here is an example, again, from beforeitsnews.com:

    The agent who approached the gun shop discussed in my article was actually quoted as saying “If you see some Middle Eastern guy come in. You don’t have to be so worried about that. What we’re really looking for are people talking about being sovereign such as sovereign citizens or people talking about Big Government.”

    They then indicated that:

    The survey found that cyberterrorism is perceived by officers as the most likely terrorism-related crime. Conventional Explosive Devices was considered second most-likely.

    Regardless of what one may think of the Sovereign Citizen movement, the fact is that the Homeland Security police state behemoth that was justified under the pretext of protecting Americans from Islamic extremism and al-Qaeda (which is funded and directed by the very same government), is now fully turned inward toward the American people and all who may dissent from the dictates of the State.

    Another interesting take comes from

    https://news.vice.com/article/move-over-jihadists-sovereign-citizens-seen-as-americas-top-terrorist-threat

    “The fact that you have people across America that believe that the federal government is an illegal entity, that a lot of state governments are illegal, and that the laws do not apply to them is very subversive to our rule of law and to our society.”

    With the recent Dirty Politics sager, couldn’t one be forgiven thinking that the National Government is illegitimate?

    A reverse Operation 8 anyone

  11. Pascals bookie 11
    9 October 2014 at 10:34 am

    “With the recent Dirty Politics sager, couldn’t one be forgiven thinking that the National Government is illegitimate?”

    No, they just won an election, that’s where govt legitimacy comes from. The consent of the governed.

    If one wants to second guess an election by taking up arms then the govt has a legitimate right to do something about that. At that point one gets to see if the govt has legitimacy. If they do not have legitimacy, one will see a popular uprising or whatever. If they do one will get squashed and pretty much everyone else will say ‘good job, bloody nutter that one’.

    • Pascals bookie 11.1
      9 October 2014 at 10:36 am

      For a concrete oexample of this regarding the soveriegn citizen types, see Tim McVeigh. Gore Vidal wrote some very good stuff on it after corresponding with him whilst he sat in prison, on death row.

      • Shark War 11.1.1
        9 October 2014 at 5:45 pm

        Hey Pascals Bookie, intriguing name, love it.

        I thought someone may bite at the comment

        “With the recent Dirty Politics sager, couldn’t one be forgiven thinking that the National Government is illegitimate?”

        You mentioned

        “No, they just won an election, that’s where govt legitimacy comes from. The consent of the governed”

        Well, many governments by definition are legitimate, but it always depends on your will, ethics and logic if you concede (i.e. it always depends…. its context related). Look at History, how, many governments were and are called legitimate yet are dictatorships, oligarchs etc.

        Authority loves it because once you quote the law, everyone shudders and their brains stop working. For the most part laws are good, what I am concerned with are the ones that slowly but surely erode a society. I digress.

        Now, take say just 2 definitions of Legitimate:
        1. Being in compliance with the law; lawful: a legitimate business.
        2. Based on logical reasoning; reasonable: a legitimate solution to the problem.

        If a law stated that all fluffy dice owners should be executed the same day as your tax return was due what would you do, follow definition 1. or maybe 2. to asses what you should do.

        Typically things are not that cut and dried. What happens when you have an, just one example, an ethnic minority that for some reason just can’t get out of the poverty trap?

        1/3 of the voting public didn’t vote, 1/3 did not want Key, the other 3rd were so freaking out about there esteemed 2 track 2 faced leader that they could not make the cognitive leap to get rid of him. (We have not even started about teaching kids politics and economics at a young age so that can get involved)…blaaa blaaa blaaa… sorry I’m boring myself.

        So, if we take from the list of baddies:
        http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/08/dhs-funded-report-sovereign-citizens-greatest-threat-to-us-3006120.html

        Other groups considered potential domestic terrorists include
        12. Extreme Anti-Tax

        Wouldn’t any big business say oh I don’t know Apple be on the FBI list?

        Oh, thats right, that rule only applies to plebs and common people. Awesome, it feels so legitimate, the Majority as so on to it (or maybe they are just so feed up with the 9-5 they have stuff all time to analyze the issues)

        One last thing, if John Key thinks it’s OK to be a 2 track 2 faced arsehole, then fine…. We have legitimatized it.

        I’ll start teaching my kids that…. oh, but with one addition, don’t get caught.

        Again, like your name, Pascals Bookie. Aside

        “Pascal’s Wager” is the name given to an argument due to Blaise Pascal for believing, or for at least taking steps to believe, in God.

        What does a belief in ‘legitimate authority’ do to ones brain if you believe in a higher power…..

        The simple rule, do as you would be done by comes to mind as well (no need for gods here)

        The point Pascal, on your nutter index when do you become too extreme, its all context related. I would agree, most on that list are, but, personally from where I stand, JK can Fxxk right off

        Go well

  12. framu 12
    9 October 2014 at 10:55 am

    and this from a prime minister who is happy to gossip about security matters if it makes him look good or its an opportunity to attack someone he doesnt like.

    the guy pisses on the conventions and reasons for state secrets at the drop of a hat

  13. Jonathan 13
    9 October 2014 at 1:43 pm

    Its easy to stand on the sidelines and call for war when you will never actually be the one to fight on the front lines.

  14. miravox 14
    9 October 2014 at 4:00 pm

    Back in June during Key’s visit to the White House there was a bit of a discussion on a shift in New Zealand’s foreign policy to reflect US interests and our own (trade) interests and away from UN-mandated interventions.

    Bryce Edwards synthesises much of this discussion and No Right Turn spells out what these changes, made without parliamentary oversight mean.

    In English, this means that rather than going on UN missions to support peace and keep combatants apart, we’ll be taking an active and direct role in America’s wars, against the wishes of the international community. The effect this will have on our international reputation as a principled, neutral party committed to international law, which we rely on for both trade access and for vanity status projects like pursuing Security Council seats, is left as an exercise for the reader.

    But what really takes the cake is the removal of the requirement that military operations “be acceptable to the New Zealand public”. No, they don’t provide any justification, because there cannot be one. It runs contrary to the fundamental principles of democratic and accountable government. But it is entirely consistent with the unaccountable, autocratic mindset which infects our foreign policy community, which sees us as ignorant peasants to be ruled, rather than citizens who rule ourselves.

    Sending New Zealanders into a conflict zone without the ageement of the UN or the people of New Zealand was an obvious outcome rightback then.

  15. Neil 15
    9 October 2014 at 5:57 pm

    Key is a terrorist with the way he’s going on, trying to terrorise the NZ public with scaremongering.

  16. RedBaronCV 16
    9 October 2014 at 9:51 pm

    Well if Key really thinks he governs for all of us how about he seek a cross party mandate for his gun hungry attitudes. War of any description is a massive undertaking for any state with years of discussion and usually involves all of parliament.

    • cogito 16.1
      10 October 2014 at 8:41 am

      There should be a full debate in parliament followed by a free conscience vote, none of Key’s ducking and diving.

  17. Eddie 17
    17 October 2014 at 12:11 pm

    If there is even 1 person in NZ who supports ISIS and follows their leaders then there is a potential for a beheading in our country or terrorist attack. The question is “are our existing safeguards enough to catch them?”. What should we do to keep us all safe and where is the line best drawn?

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