Video: 12 Flip Flops from Mr Key
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4:25 pm, October 17th, 2008 - 33 comments
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National policy on Maori seats (2007): “The Caucus today confirmed that the Maori seats will be abolished, which we anticipate will take place around the time of settlement of historic Treaty claims,” says National Party Leader John Key.
National policy on Maori seats (Sept 2008); “National wants to scrap the Maori seats in Parliament once all historical Treaty settlements are sorted.”
National policy now: Key told the Maori Party he was prepared to drop a policy to abolish the Maori seats in Parliament. “They’ve raised it with us on numerous occasions and I’ve made it quite clear to them it’s not a bottom line for us,” he told reporters on the campaign trail in Dunedin.
And then I spotted this video on some of those other issues he has flip flopped over….
33 comments on “Video: 12 Flip Flops from Mr Key ”
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- Release: Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principle...
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- NZ must pursue independent foreign policy
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- Record number of submissions received on granny flat proposal
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- New facility in Christchurch will improve the lives of young New Zealanders
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- Driver safety screens to be installed on Auckland buses
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- Foreign Minister to visit Europe
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- First arrests made under gang patch ban
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- Next steps for Regulatory Standards Bill
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- Youth Parliament 2025 announced
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- Police stats show promising change
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- Better coordination of anti-scam efforts
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- Minister to consider 7AA select committee report
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I think it’s a bit of a giveaway that they aren’t that committed to it when they say they won’t do it until claims are sorted. If it was that essential why not just do it right away?
Well when I complain about a lack of adherence to principle by almost every party on almost every issue some smug twit inevitably pops up to tell me “it’s called MMP”.
Indeed it is. An if we’re sick and tired of ethical standards being re-written almost daily to accommodate politicians’ and their “power at any price” mindset, we need to re-examine the system.
The only point this flip flop has in its favour is that it’s been negotiated and announced ahead of the election.
I wish every minor party would put it’s non-negotiable policies on the table and each major party would say which they’re going to cave into before we cast a vote.
Winston, for instance, could tell us whether the limo, the staff and the salary would be enough or whether his demands will be even more outrageous. I’m betting they would be. We already have Key’s answer, we’re still awaiting Clark’s.
All this is pretty immaterial compared to other breaking news.
Anyone listen to Larry Williams just after 5?
Anyone noticed how the government is brought down every time Wishart strikes? No? But … but … how can that be?
Poor, sad Tony. Shouldn’t you be going on about Vegas or chicken porn or something?
But he has a few good hits as well. John Tamihere for instance.
I think this might be one of his good hits. If he has the documentation to substantiate half of this then it is very serious.
These right whinging trolls are pathetic – ignore every one of the 12 points without a thought… they’d still support key if he led a bunch of neo liberal maniacs bent on abolishing MMP and dragging NZ into a user pays privatised society dominated by dorks……whoops…
Rex: re NZ 1st “We already have Key’s answer,”
Which we know was a flip flop in itself as I posted the 2-3 days ago
Key telling Paul Henry he can’t rule out a coalition with NZ 1st
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmtklPQn-yQ&NR=1
Then the FLIP FLOP
4:00AM Saturday Oct 11, 2008
By Paula Oliver NZ Herald
Q&A with National Party leader John Key
Oliver Q: “You have said you will not work with Winston Peters. Does that mean no deal with New Zealand First under any circumstances’?
John Key A: Yes!</b.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10536831&pnum=0
At least National does not give special favours to rich crooks who want to gain citizenship to New Zealand despite advice to the contrary and very serious concerns from Internal Affairs.
Key’s economic experience seems limited to being economic with the truth.
Akldnut:
So, like a lot of people, as Winston’s lies and dissembling became more and more obvious, Key finally got to the point where he found it unpalatable and realised that NZF cannot be trusted on anything, ever, unless too high a price is paid?
Aside from thinking “Well, duhhhh, it took you that long?” I don’t see the problem.
We criticise politicians all the time for their arrogance, usually rightly so. Then when they say “I’ve changed my mind” we call it “flip flopping”. So then they change their minds and don’t tell us till after an election.
I hear the same criticism being made of Clark, so it’s not a malaise unique to the left by any means. But it’s just silly – surely we want the processes of parties working through their relationships with one another and trading off bits of our future to be as open as possible; and for us to be able to indicate ahead of time whether we find it acceptable or not?
The alternative is closed-door post-election bauble auctions, and we’ve all seen where that leads.
So long as Clark, Key and the rest of them have sorted out their positions and made it clear by polling day then they’re doing okay, because I’ll be amongst those criticising either of them for any surprises they pull post-election.
Dancer
How about a song, something like – On the 12 days of the election the country gave to me….
Excellent Dancer
I don’t often agree with Rex, but I think he makes some excellent points above. The Standard contributes as much as it can to that whole atmosphere that poisons politicians ability to deliberate. But in your defence you are playing a role in a pre-existing political environment. And you don’t pretend not to be an attack blog (amongst other things).
Nah Rex. You’re a good bloke but this stuff is simply the nature of the beast. It’s actually not the Pollies fault.
We vote for this, if we all voted for Dudley and Darleen do right then we’d have daffodil politics. But we don’t. For a good reason. We don’t trust Dudley or Darleen do right to get the job done against our political opponents.
The idea that if only our politicians could all just be honest all the time, and reason together, then things would be better ignores the one most salient point of politics.
There are real disagreements between people, and politics is about deciding who gets to implement their ideas. Given that people not only think that their ideas are right, and moral, but that their opponents ideas would be disastrous, then people are going to do what it takes.
Given even a fairly narrow view of history, the system we have, WP included, is incredibly honest straightforward and violence free. “What it takes” in NZ amounts to telling a few porkies and a bit of pandering.
The job of voters, in my view, is to try and get the pollies they agree with into power. The tricky part is working out which one’s are pandering to you and who actually agrees with you.
Most of the moaning about it (present company excepted of course) is just a form of playing the ref’s. And that’s legitimate too.
Published on the TIFG website:
“The Government has just issued a news release confirming an investigation into immigration fraud has begun into the man at the centre of this story…we’ll have a full wrap-up in TGIF EDITION, out later tonight for subscribers”
Looks like our noble leaders are trying to front foot it. Looks like they are very worried. Fireworks to come I think.
Before you carry on having a go at JK, remember, “those in glass houses…”
Here is the link to Barker’s full media release as reported by the NBR.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/minister-reveals-immigration-investigation-36638
MSM are very interested in this one. Get out the popcorn.
Remember, its all about TRUST.
Things are rather silent over here Clinton and Lyn? I wonder why?
Labour are finished and will be lucky to get 25% of the vote. Game over girls.
[actually, we’re just about to hit our biggest week ever, with a day to spare. Which makes me think we wouldn’t miss you, dad. So how about making some worthwhile comments or getting lost? And his name is Lynn. SP]
No point posting Tony, they’ve all gone off to an emergency meeting, 9th floor… didn’t you here the sirens going off?
Red alert attention all spin doctors please stop sipping socialist champagne and head to the directors room for briefing asap. What a collection of spittle’s that would be.Yuck.I bet the pill bottles are getting emptied real quick in the smelly Level 9 psych ward.
Hey cool… from my house I just saw NZ’s version of Air Force 1 (you know, the one used for electionee…. oops my bad… government duties) do a u-turn and head back to the airport very quickly.
I thought all the Labour spin doctors would fly via broomstick airways?
3 posts and 3 attacks and abuse, none on the topic at hand.
Yes folks that’s our resident right wing sanctimonious wanker Dad4J. Even if he could argue a point he wouldn’t as his filthy mind is overcome with so much hate and despise. How classy is it to come over here and gloat and spew his vile shite.
Funny yesterday I picked him up on his lies and crap, guess what he did. He copied his post and went back to Kiwiblog moaning that I’ve been chasing him about the place, yes that’s right folks, the blogosphere equivalent of taking your ball and running back to mummy.
Try it dad, just for once in your life – Construct a fucking argument! the topic is about Keys flip flops not your dirty little stereotypes of left wing thinking people.
If you are any indication as to how vindictive the right can be, god help us that you never get anywhere near the corridors of power.
“MSM are very interested in this one. Get out the popcorn”
Tony – nearly 5 hours since this news broke.
Stuff – nothing
Herald – nothing
ODT – nothing
Scoop – nothing
NBR – a story
Kiwblog – the biggest little stiffie since the last time that dirty little bugger imagined a fantasy and wrote about it.
If this is your definition of the MSM all over it, I’m hating to think what the Madonna story is in relation.
hang on Stuff did do an update and at 9:35 there was an armed robbery in Auckland – bugger so close, this could have been it.
The Herald has also updated with a report on the wellington rugby win.
the biggest political story of the night is the silly one about “Herald online voters decide which politicians are jokers, killjoys” “Pollsters voted Act leader Rodney Hide as the politician most likely to be the best stand-up comedian”
I’ve got the popcorn, this is going to be good…
Does Hide do a good Billy Connely, or will he be more an Eddie Izzard (doubt it – Eddie is intelligent).
Tony Norris: Get out the popcorn
Settle, Tony. Onanistic whip-ups like S59, EFA and Winniebango only work in a policy vacuum. Healthy voters already have their prospective spouses – buzz off and enjoy yourself with the latest copy of Ian’sChick in private, there’s a good chap…..
Far more interesting is the kite-flying jostle for the RACE favourite: Dunnge Beetle and Winnie have been predictably blatant, and NACT Central is using amateurs like wee Bobbie Jones to feel-out the redneck appetite.
But could the untrialled Nice Slipper pull off an ultimate flip-flop in the final strait if that’s what it took?
Put money on it, punters. He’s out of Smiling Snake, by Smiling Assassin, remember. Whateverittatkes Holdings. Stable(andpiss)mate of Spinnerbros and Duncan. A top thoroughbred who shouldn’t disappoint his trainers.
Careful, Hone. 150 years of pain now crystallised on your mana and three weeks. Softly, softly…….
Pacal’s bookie: Thanks for the kind words 🙂 I kinda think we’re slightly talking past one another, though. Gods forbid we should get 120 Dudley Dorights as our MPs – it’d be a Parliament full of sanctimonious little twerps like Peter Dunne.
I’m all for a battle of ideas, and a Parliament comprised of people of many ideological hues all fighting for what they believe in. In fact I’m criticising just the opposite – people who don’t really believe much at all, and will just horse trade policy to cobble together a coalition, and who’ll do it behind closed doors.
If – to cite the example in the main post, but there’s many more – National is going to drop a significant policy like abolition of the Maori seats in order to make themselves more attractive to the Maori Party I’d prefer they’re open about it before we get to vote. Similarly Labour rejected the idea of choking our showers to a trickle yesterday. Not as important, but still nice to know what they consider non-negotiable and good on them for making it clear.
I agree we’re getting conditioned to think like this but I also feel it’s something we should try to combat (“we” being, in this case, and very loosely, those who know a bit more than the average citizen about politics due to our sad obsession with same). Because no one has a monopoly on good ideas and by shrieking “ideological traitor!” everytime someone broadly identified as left or right dares suggest the other side may just have a point, we’re denying NZ the best possible outcomes in the name of point scoring. That, IMHO, isn’t something we should just accept as inevitable.
The NBR has a lovely quote from Rick Barker on investigating the fraud.
“That may result in a prosecution and/or revocation of residency status.
I guess it’s the immigrants fault the minister approved their application, when they knew them, when they had information about multiple identities, when they knew he had been recently deported from Australia, when there had been an Interpol arrest warrant for him.
Let me guess, the minister was only guilty of trying to help people.
Breaking news:
The Prime Minister has been forced to act, just days before the election! She has fired another Minister! Something to do with dodgy financial dealings and Chinese immigrants! It’s a disgrace! It’s time for a change!
I’m sure you will all join me in looking forward to a wonderful new Prime Minister, and a better New Zealand …
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/534531.stm
Mate that is one of the funniest posts I have ever read.
Pure genius and stunning serendipity. How did you come across that gem.
Post of the week goes to you late friday night – do you get a set of golf balls?
Sorry I am going to have to repost, but I’ll credit you – made my week/
http://www.newseum.org/todaysfrontpages/pop_up.asp?fpVname=CO_RMN&ref_pge=map&tfp_map=NorthAmerica
now there’s a political scandal.
This is kinda embarassing, but…
The music of that damned video is now firmly stuck in my head! Does anyone know the source of the original pinball video (with music) so I can get it?
Hey Dancer- can we PLEASE stop using the Right’s favourite term of “flip-flopping?” What’s worrying about Key’s change of stance is not that he changed at all, it’s that he can’t back up the change with any principles.
Hey Anita I think the music/video is an old Sesame St clip? And is flip-flop really a right wing phrase? I think of it as a sympton of changability (which isn’t a bad thing in itself) but that when you have a host of them you do have to start asking yourself what the core principles are – and if they’ve changed once, what’s to stop them changing back (KiwiSaver springs to mind as an eg of that!)
At least National does not give special favours to rich crooks who want to gain citizenship to New Zealand despite advice to the contrary and very serious concerns from Internal Affairs.
so what is a $5000 donation then to the NATs??? Pansy Wrong