Winston back flips on his abolish Maori seats bottom line

Written By: - Date published: 3:13 pm, July 19th, 2017 - 86 comments
Categories: election 2017, Maori seats, Media, nz first, Politics, winston peters, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

Two days ago at his party conference Winston Peters promised “explosive policy” and one in particular that red necks throughout the country would support, putting the future of the Maori seats up for a general referendum.

From Stuff at the time:

Speaking to media following his speech, Peters said the size of Parliament needs to reduce because there was a referendum in 1999 where 80 per cent of the country wanted to reduce the overall number of MPs but it wasn’t binding.

“The public should be asked again now whether they want the 120 or 100.”

A binding referendum on the two matters would be held on the same day in the middle of the next election term.

Peters said both issues were “explosive” but in particular the Maori seats because “Maori progress economically and socially has been massively sidetracked, detoured and road blocked by the Waitangi industry”.

“How could that possibly happen when we’ve got all these new members of Parliament coming from the Maori world?”

Peters said he wouldn’t use “silly phrases” like “bottom lines” but he made it clear the referendum wasn’t negotiable.

“My strategy is to tell everybody out there that you won’t be talking to NZ First unless you want a referendum on both those issues at the mid-term mark of this election.”

Not only was it policy but it was coalition dependent policy.  I thought at the time he was sabotaging the possibility of a deal with Labour because the party’s policy is to retain the seats.

But two days later his position has appeared to have changed, and rather dramatically.

From Newshub:

Winston Peters appears to be having second thoughts on a binding referendum to decide the future of the Māori seats – he now says it should be “up to Māori” to decide whether they should stay or go.

The NZ First leader told his party’s annual conference on Sunday he would insist on the referendum if his party was part of the next government.

He didn’t specify who should take part, and it was assumed he was talking about all voters.

Since then the party’s Māori affairs spokesperson, Pita Paraone, has said the decision should be left to Māori.

Mr Peters agrees with that.

“Of course it should be up to Māori to decide if the seats go, but I’m making a speech about it very shortly and I will tell you the full parameters of that,” he told the NZME.

“I’ve heard what has been said by people who have been interviewed, Pita and maybe others, and the question is whether it is full conscription and I’ll have that answer in a speech I’m giving shortly.”

I am not surprised at the back flip although it feels like Winston is trying to get a bob both ways.  At the last election New Zealand First’s support among the general electorates was 8.37% and among the Maori seats it was 12.98% so there is a good chunk of support he was threatening to annoy.

No doubt he will claim that he had been misreported and his position has always been consistent.  For this to be reality would require Trump quality suspension of belief.

Update:  make that a double backflip …

86 comments on “Winston back flips on his abolish Maori seats bottom line ”

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  1. Agora 1
    19 July 2017 at 3:46 pm

    As a former Foreign Minister under Helen, it is not wise to underestimate Winston. If politics is the art of the possible, he is a practiced performer. If nothing else, it won’t be boring ..

  2. tc 2
    19 July 2017 at 4:03 pm

    Winston like shonky will do whatever it takes and whoever it takes and not be bothered about the repercussions.

    Shane jones being a case in point as winnie is well aware of his flexible standards and low work ethic but its all about the end game for winnie.

  3. WILD KATIPO 3
    19 July 2017 at 4:31 pm

    HAHAHAHA! …

    The Silver Fox is far more tactical than most of us here…

    Look,… the simple explanation is that he is attempting to dislodge softer Nat voters to vote NZ First , many of which are found in the provinces.

    And just to reinforce the urban vote , the small occasional dig at Mr Little wont go amiss to extract a few shaky Labour voters to his cause, – helps with the bargaining chips, dontcha know…

    The other tactic is twofold. He doesn’t like the Maori party and to an extent the Maori party is dependent on retaining the Maori seats – plus coat tailing and overhang seats. One reason he wont like the Maori party is because they weaken his position in bargaining with National – just another suitor to see off , so to speak.

    He knows darn well who his loyal voter base is . And they know darn well he is only messing with the Latte crowds minds. And he will be pissing himself laughing at all the righteous ones and their faux outrage and cry’s of ‘ Peters the racist ‘ !!!

    Now , … ( and all kudos to Metiria – shes been awesome , – revolutionary , in fact ! ) … where do you suppose the Greens got their boldness to risk attacking Peters and forever be tarred with the party that enabled a 4th term for National from ?… or worse still in the public’s minds… a forced re election from?

    The very same people Peters wants to see decimated at the elections : the Maori party.

    There are strong feelings towards all things indigenous with many of the Greens. And I said many ,… not all.

    And if you were a Green , and felt threatened by Peters negotiating power with Labour to usurp your agreement and for you to be left out of the birthday party yet again , … where do you think you could attack him at an easily publicly recognized socially unacceptable point ?

    That’s right – label the guy a racist.

    Easy Peasy .

    Always goes down well with the crowds.

    Force Labour to reel a bit and not to want to be associated with that monicker meanwhile thinking they are reducing Peters negotiating power… make Labour feel like they want to shore up their relationship just that little bit more with the Greens, … just in case…

    Despite the obvious fact that all three party’s need each other to defeat National and form a government…

    Left stage , – the Greens and Maori party are having a few private discussions on the side … forming a bloc privately together and doubling the muscle…ensuring both survive because they know Peters WILL be the kingmaker,… maybe even Pm for a term…so lets have a go at Peters and get him to bite.

    Peters didn’t come down in the last shower and was in politics when most of these others were in nappies… Peters doesn’t bite in retaliation at any one specific party at his weekend party meet and instead attacks all party’s equally , – making them all sweat , — and whats worse for all the schemers , – leaves the back door open for an easy escape !

    And how ???

    By having a few rounds of cards and a few pleasant shots of whiskey and roaring with laughter at just how they see and knew each group would react and anticipating each weakness and who would side with who …and planning accordingly… and by having a protagonist and antagonist both within the same party …with the protagonist saying the the Maori seats should be decided by Maoridom , and the antagonist saying they shouldn’t but gathering votes from the soft Nats and at the same time… leaving the back door open to say ultimately Maori should decide – and thereby strengthening even more his original loyalty’s.

    I tell you truly… the Maori grapevine and Marae system is every bit as efficient as the latest computer technology in transference of communications and far , far , far more foolproof and beyond detection than any electronic surveillance system ever can be…

    • james 3.1
      19 July 2017 at 6:49 pm

      “The Silver Fox is far more tactical than most of us here…”

      by a long shot.

      Hey – for once we agree on something.

    • CLEANGREEN 3.2
      20 July 2017 at 8:39 am

      100% Wild Katipo;

      And the silver Fox also got oxygen from the Media to place NZ First back on the mainstream beltway again after languishing in the shadows as other parties are suffering from today.

      That was worth zillions don’t you think?

  4. Stunned Mullet 4
    19 July 2017 at 4:53 pm

    Oh dear…

    “The preferences of Peters’ supporters is emphatic; 76 per cent of them believe New Zealand First would be the best coalition partner for National.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11892671

    Suggests the support for NZ first is being bled from National predominantly but even so a vote for Winston is likely a vote for a Nat led government.

    • Sara Matthews 4.1
      19 July 2017 at 5:15 pm

      It always has been, this fallacy that somehow Winston will form a government with the left, is exactly that false, he’s a right wing politician and always has been, L/G should be on the attack against him, not trying to cuddle up to him. 40 years in government and he’s apparently an agent of change, what a joke, he is the establishment.

      • WILD KATIPO 4.1.1
        19 July 2017 at 5:22 pm

        And you would prefer another 3 years of suffering and people dying on our streets because of sleeping rough and homelessness instead of humbling yourself and recognizing the game Peters is playing to realize his legacy.

        OK then.

        So be it.

      • Penny Bright 4.1.2
        19 July 2017 at 7:21 pm

        errr… so with whom did NZ First align in 2005?

        Labour.

        • Stunned mullet 4.1.2.1
          19 July 2017 at 7:33 pm

          errr… so with whom did NZ First align in 1996?

          National.

          • In Vino 4.1.2.1.1
            19 July 2017 at 8:42 pm

            Not a happy outcome in either case. Logical conclusion is that only a fool would vote for him. He cannot make a happy alliance with either National or Labour.

            • Stunned mullet 4.1.2.1.1.1
              19 July 2017 at 9:25 pm

              I have no doubt he’ll be government with one or t’other block, it’s his last election he’ll play it for all he’s worth get a mountain of baubles and fawning grey rinse brigade and get a foreign posting out the ass end of it before handing the party of to shane Jones to drive it into oblivion.

      • Penny Bright 4.1.3
        19 July 2017 at 9:26 pm

        Really?

        A number of the corporate tax fraudsters (establishment?) weren’t too keen on the Winebox Inquiry 🙂

        There is now a growing spotlight being shone on NZ corporate / tax fraud.

        Good.

        So – in the interests of fair play and the historical track record, how many people know who was the NZ politician, who kicked off the ‘Wine Box’ NZ corporate tax fraud scandal?

        Over TWENTY-FIVE years ago?

        And helped expose effectively incompetent were the NZ Serious Fraud Office and NZ Inland Revenue Department?

        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winebox_Inquiry

        “In 1994 the Winebox Inquiry was formed.

        The terms of reference of the Commission of Inquiry required it to report upon whether the Inland Revenue Department and the Serious Fraud Office had acted in a lawful, proper and competent manner in dealing with the relevant transactions[which?], and to examine whether any changes to the criminal or tax laws should be made to protect New Zealand’s income tax base from the effects of fraud, evasion and avoidance.

        The genesis for the inquiry lay in repeated claims by Winston Peters of criminality associated with tax planning undertaken by some of New Zealand’s largest companies (some involving tax deals with the Cook Islands) as well as fraud and incompetence by both the Inland Revenue Department and the Serious Fraud Office.

        Public pressure eventually forced the government to set up the inquiry.
        …..”

        I recommend those who don’t know much about the (in)famous Winebox Inquiry, take a few minutes reading to come up to speed?

        #StopCorruption
        #TheWineboxInquiry

    • WILD KATIPO 4.2
      19 July 2017 at 5:19 pm

      Of course 76 per cent of them believe New Zealand First would be the best coalition partner for National and the support for NZ first is being bled from National ,- but that’s the whole idea… Winston has held every top posting barring Prime Minister.

      He wont get that with the neo liberals in National , – and has far more probability of at least sharing the role in an apprehensive Left , – with the Greens who have not been in government for years and the Labour party that is in a state of rebuild.

      Now heres the trick.

      It would be good for the Greens and good for Labour – and good for the future of the Left. Metiria is a hero now , and has cracked the whole neo liberal narrative wide open with her admittance, and her announcements of the Green party welfare reforms.

      Labour follows this up with its modest but incremental wage increases and tops it off with ambitions for the Living Wage – following overseas trends by starting with the Public Sector.

      NZ First comes in with its cut backs on immigration and we have a coalition government that has far more in common than they have differences.

      ALL oppose asset sales, all oppose irresponsible immigration and advocate moderation, all have opposed the TTPA, all agree on Pike River , all criticize the burgeoning out of control surveillance culture, all speak out against homelessness and poverty and the list goes on and on and on…

      Meanwhile National inherits its just deserts as they are blamed for the state this country is in now… and Bill English leads his party to its 2nd historical worst defeat for National in New Zealand history.

      Because that is what you get for trying to pursue an anti democratic, corrupt and oppressive campaign against your own citizens when you are a paid elected official put in that position to serve the best interests of the people of this country.

      • CLEANGREEN 4.2.1
        20 July 2017 at 8:48 am

        Yep Wild Katipo,

        Some don’t see the forest for the trees but Winston is the consummate strategist that will have National for breakfast.

        he has attended several meetings around the east coast recently and wont have a Barr of partnering with national!!!!

        Be sure of this!!!! – as he will even sit in the cross benches rather than get into the Nactional snake pit with an “anti-Nationalist” Government, we have today which can only be called as a “sellout” administration.

    • web-developer 4.3
      19 July 2017 at 5:48 pm

      Well, hang on a minute. Havn’t NZF supporters consistently polled ~76% in favour of a coalition with Labour? I find it hard to believe they have wholesale swapped sides to National in the matter of a few months.

      • WILD KATIPO 4.3.1
        19 July 2017 at 6:11 pm

        And that’s precisely why the appeal to soft Nat voters around the Maori seats issue… he gets them on-board ,… but goes with the membership… which should in effect, favour Labour.

        So ,… weakens National by taking voters, yet strengthens his bargaining capacity with them.

        Knocks out the Maori party , and any deals they had with the Greens , – and strengthens his hand with Labour…

        Always remember… Peters is no real friend of the neo liberal… and has held a grudge with both Labour and National because of that. He is a political and economic nationalist first and foremost.

      • weka 4.3.2
        19 July 2017 at 10:32 pm


        Well, hang on a minute. Havn’t NZF supporters consistently polled ~76% in favour of a coalition with Labour? I find it hard to believe they have wholesale swapped sides to National in the matter of a few months.

        They haven’t. The question was about who would be best with National, not who NZF voters want NZF to go with.

    • Psycho Milt 4.4
      19 July 2017 at 9:17 pm

      …a vote for Winston is likely a vote for a Nat led government.

      Thank you. Now would some of those NZ First enthusiasts on the left start paying attention, please?

    • ankerawshark 4.5
      19 July 2017 at 9:42 pm

      Its a rather mis-leading item imo. It’s not a survey of NZ first supporters.Its an on-line survey of who is National best to go with. The current coalition partners of National are still the highest, then NZ first, then the Greens.

  5. red-blooded 5
    19 July 2017 at 5:01 pm

    Peters isn’t opposed to the Māori seats in principle: let’s remember that NZF ran for and won those seats in the first MMP election. He was really pissed off when 4 out 5 of the “tight 5” refused to walk away with him when he spat the dummy on Shipley (didn’t she dump him from Cabinet?) and broke away from the coalition, though. They liked “the baubles of power” (his words) and one – Tau Henare – even ended up as a Nat MP and Minister. NZF likes to say that it doesn’t run in those seats out of principle, but actually Winston got his fingers burned and doesn’t want a close-knit group with more loyalty to each other than him in his caucus again.

    • WILD KATIPO 5.1
      19 July 2017 at 5:46 pm

      Peters opposed both Richardsons neo liberal continuance of reforms and the Mother of all Budgets , and when Shipley rolled Bolger tensions began to develop between Peters and the National Party, which only worsened after Jenny Shipley staged a party room coup and became prime minister. After a dispute over the privatisation of Wellington International Airport, Peters was sacked from Cabinet again on 14 August 1998.

      * Peters exacted a high price for allowing Bolger to stay on as prime minister. Peters became Deputy Prime Minister and Treasurer (senior to the Minister of Finance), the latter post created especially for him.

      * in the 1996 elections, the MMP electoral system delivered a huge windfall to New Zealand First. The party won 17 seats and swept all of the Māori electorates.

      ………………………………………………………..

      * On 16 December 1986, he exposed the Māori loan affair in Parliament.

      * He became the National Party’s spokesperson on Māori Affairs, Consumer Affairs, and Transport. In 1987, he was elevated to National’s front bench, acting as spokesperson for Māori Affairs, Employment, and Race Relations.

      * In the 2005 negotiations with Clark after the election, Peters secured the ministerial portfolios of Foreign Affairs and Racing in the Labour-led government,

      * Considering his previous comments relating to immigration, there were mixed reactions from commentators.[20] His selection for the Foreign Affairs portfolio created some measure of surprise within the country and beyond. National Party leader Don Brash said the choice was “astonishing”, because “the whole region distrusts Winston Peters – Australia, Asia […]. I think putting him as minister of foreign affairs does huge damage for our international reputation.”[21] The Age, in Australia, expressed surprise that the position had been given to an “outspoken, anti-migrant populist and nationalist…

      *https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Winston_Peters_Condoleezza_Rice_Auckland_2008_DSC_4939_a.jpg/340px-Winston_Peters_Condoleezza_Rice_Auckland_2008_DSC_4939_a.jpg

      Winston Peters – Wikipedia
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Peters

  6. Tamati Tautuhi 6
    19 July 2017 at 5:11 pm

    “Once Bitten Twice Shy” an Old Maori Proverb

  7. marty mars 7
    19 July 2017 at 5:29 pm

    Pretty basic – nothing is changing with the Māori Seats until Māori say so. End. Of. Story.

    • Stunned Mullet 7.1
      19 July 2017 at 5:51 pm

      Yep and that’s they way it should be.

      • WILD KATIPO 7.1.1
        19 July 2017 at 6:45 pm

        And Peters knew that all along and also knew his loyal supporters would know what he was doing…

        Barring the fear prone and greedy neo liberal right wing and the equally as fear motivated and hypocritical Blairite identity politics Left wing.

        He’s got them both screwed big time.

  8. web-developer 8
    19 July 2017 at 5:43 pm

    Had you considered that it may be an attempt to smother the Labour Party’s announcement today? Guess which story is going to lead the political news tonight?

    • Norfolk Traveller 8.1
      19 July 2017 at 6:08 pm

      Look at the NZH website. Nothing about Labour’s plan on the ‘home page’ (i know they don’t call them that now). Nothing. But there is a piece about a mum pole dancing with her baby.
      Stuff home page…nothing.
      Dominion Post…nothing. But hey you can read about how ‘Gonorrhoea is on the rise’.

      What passes as the media now is little more than ‘infotainment’.

      • WILD KATIPO 8.1.1
        19 July 2017 at 6:23 pm

        MWHAHAHAAA !

        The profuse sweating of those on both the Left and the Right,… you earned it scumbags , – now live with it .

        Your sickening , vacuous token platitude Blairite identity politics wont save the Left now , – nor will your far right neo liberal viciousness and greed the Right seems to think it can peddle to gullible minds.

        Both of your shallow , hollow, empty dogmas are about to be mocked .

        And there’s jack shit nothing you can do about it but accept and plead and concede. And you know it , you smug bastards.

        L0L0L0L0L0L !!!!!!!!!

        • Norfolk Traveller 8.1.1.1
          19 July 2017 at 6:34 pm

          …not sure what to make of that…anyone help?

          • WILD KATIPO 8.1.1.1.1
            19 July 2017 at 6:50 pm

            Engage your small mind perhaps… its a great gift when you start to use it.

            Tell me, have you ever read extensively on political history , or military tacticians throughout history ?

            Maybe its about time you started. I suggest starting with classical Greece and working forwards… or even perhaps earlier.

            Sun Tzu is always a good generic reference point.

            • Stunned mullet 8.1.1.1.1.1
              19 July 2017 at 6:57 pm

              ….and the Bilderbergs, Reverse Vampires, Rothschilds…froth froth

              vaccines, fluoride, global warming fake news froth froth…

              • BM …
                19 July 2017 at 7:02 pm

                WK saw some shit on the you tubes, he’s all knowing now, different plane of consciousness to us sheeple etc.

                • WILD KATIPO …
                  19 July 2017 at 7:10 pm

                  L0L ! … sweat my little darlings.

                  Roaring with laughter ,… please provide more I entreat you … it will only get even more hilarious as time wears on to the election.

                  Dr. Smith’s Pain – YouTube
                  you tube▶ 0:11

        • red-blooded 8.1.1.2
          19 July 2017 at 8:56 pm

          “Vacuous”, “shallow’, “smug”, “bastard”, “hypocritical” (above comment)… surely any admirer of Peters sees these as admirable terms?

          • WILD KATIPO 8.1.1.2.1
            20 July 2017 at 12:51 pm

            HAHA… sometimes to bring down subversives you’ve got to stop acting like a passive wallflower and a victim and get with the program. There’s a million ways to say ‘fuck you ‘ in polite company but the intent remains the same.

            Can you imagine a sergeant charging up the beaches of Omaha and giving the command to his men , ” now do be ever so polite with the enemy because while they may be supporting a naughty government our real aim here is to have a jolly good time and a picnic ”….

            If you seriously see these globalist supporters of neo liberalism in our political environment as a good thing you need to stop commenting.

            As for me , – the sooner these shitheads are dealt with and stompt all over the better. People are DYING IN OUR STREETS BECAUSE THEY ARE FUCKING POOR AND HOMELESS , MATE !!!!

            And you can play the Nancy and Patsy game with them if you want , – I’d rather name and shame the lowlife bastards for the evil scumbags they are!

  9. Anne 9
    19 July 2017 at 6:00 pm

    I’ll take you up on that bet:

    TV1 will lead with the Labour Party’s policy announcment.
    TV3 will lead with Winnie’s big back-flip – or a version thereof.

    There you go – a bob each way. 🙂

    • web-developer 9.1
      19 July 2017 at 6:04 pm

      Haha you’re right TV1 anyway. I take it back.

    • Carolyn_nth 9.2
      19 July 2017 at 7:39 pm

      Just had a look at the clutter on NZH and at Stuff. They don’t seem to be giving much attention to either story.

      newsroom has Labour’s announcement, but little on WP or the proposed referendums. They do have a piece with Ron Mark making comments about the NZF caucus.

      • dukeofurl 9.2.1
        20 July 2017 at 8:03 am

        Thats because the storys placement are computer generated, more clicks and higher up the list it goes.

        You have to drop the old ‘front page’ thinking, where its decided by the editors the night before and stuck there for most of the day.

        A ‘crying baby’ story will out rate any political story, which only appeal to a very small number.

  10. Tanz 10
    19 July 2017 at 6:24 pm

    He is just being principled, that stance is fair enough. Ah, go Winston, PM material.

  11. Anne 11
    19 July 2017 at 6:37 pm

    Here’s Winnie’s latest offering where he explains what he meant:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11892732

    Anyone who claims they understand what he is talking about has to be suspect.
    Can’t stop laughing…

  12. Ad 12
    19 July 2017 at 6:43 pm

    Which shifted more votes:
    Metiria’s admission
    Or Winston’s referendum

    Metiria galvanised a few on the v hard left

    But Winston remembered Orewa.

    Metiria shifts nothing,
    Winston shifts 2 points up to 13%.

    • WILD KATIPO 12.1
      19 July 2017 at 7:02 pm

      And yet both use the same emotive tactics, therefore both have won. And while Metiria captures many of the lost vote , the beneficiaries , the solo mothers with children , Winston captures the soft disgruntled Nat votes from the provinces… and yet you still are thinking in FPP terms.

      And totally failing to understand Peters long game and what he is playing for… and it sure aint more of the same neo liberal shit served up from either the Left or the Right…

      • red-blooded 12.1.1
        19 July 2017 at 9:02 pm

        So what did Peters do to shift NZ away from the neo-liberal agenda when he was both Deputy Prime Minister and Treasurer under Bolger, WK?

        • WILD KATIPO 12.1.1.1
          20 July 2017 at 12:06 pm

          You demonstrate a lack of political history, and a lack of perception of political strategy .

          Just one example.

          Having opposed both Ruth Richardson’s neo liberalism and Jenny Shipley’s selling of our major airline, Shipley sacked Peters because he was being a thorn in her side in perusing the neo liberal privatization agenda.

          How often this story have to be retold to you before the penny starts to drop?

          EYES WIDE OPEN , people….

      • CLEANGREEN 12.1.2
        20 July 2017 at 8:53 am

        Yes Wild Katipo,

        Most simple minds cant see Winston’s strategy at all can they???

        They forget he has been in politics longer than many have been born it appears.!!!!!!!

    • alwyn 12.2
      19 July 2017 at 7:16 pm

      Personally I think that Meteria’s little effort has had the most effect.
      Of course I don’t think she will like the effect. A major shift away from the Green Party I would say.
      People probably sympathised with her at first. I did when I heard her initial statement. Then they, like me, discovered that the fraud had gone on for three years and that she had never made any attempt to pay back the money she had stolen.
      She had also, I gather, refused to identify the father who thereby avoided any duty to help support his child.
      I don’t think people are going to continue to regard her party in a favourable light unless they dump her completely.

      • marty mars 12.2.1
        19 July 2017 at 7:39 pm

        “Personally I think that Meteria’s little effort has had the most effect.”

        Who you talking about – another right winger who can’t spell for shit – you are an embarrassment – didn’t you skite about how far up the ladder you got – and still can’t WRITE someones name correctly – duh go back to school allwhine

        • alwyn 12.2.1.1
          19 July 2017 at 8:41 pm

          “who can’t spell for shit”
          Gosh, I didn’t spell her name correctly.
          Wow, how dreadful.
          On the other hand I can spell “shit”.
          You simply write “marty mars”. There, easy isn’t it?
          And I can also recognise fraud when someone who should know better flaunts her prowess at it.

      • WILD KATIPO 12.2.2
        19 July 2017 at 7:49 pm

        @ Al – what ever his / her name is I don’t care….

        And then , of course,… people like you willfully ignore the fact that tax evasion costs this country’s economy over one billion dollars per annum whereas benefit fraud is a mere 33 million by comparison in the same time frame…

        Which you ignore deliberately because it destroys your whole narrative simply because : A) you like to trot out the moral reprehensibility’s of disgusting lice ridden poor people, B) because they are far more easily victimized therefore much more easily accommodated into being your playthings and sport , C ) because they are useful as an aid in deflecting from any attention given towards the glaring monstrosity’s of your own unique brand of self mockery and hypocrisy.

        You truly are as something that has crawled from the abyss.

        I assume you have a stench.

        Please do not pollute these forums with anymore of that acrid and putrid foul odour , as life is short and should be enjoyed.

        • alwyn 12.2.2.1
          19 July 2017 at 8:50 pm

          “lice ridden poor people”.
          You will note that the person concerned certainly doesn’t come into that category, at least as far as “poor” goes. She has for many years been in the group of people who earn at least four times the average income.
          She still never felt any inclination to repay the money she had defrauded the taxpayer of, did she?
          As I noted, I had sympathy for her on the first telling of her tale. However when I heard the later details, including the fact that she had made no attempt to repay it in 25 years I lost a great deal of my sympathy.
          Just calm down. It is hardly surprising you are upset. It must be terrible to find that someone you clearly idolise is a crook.
          Think of all the people who voted for Richard Nixon. How embarrassed they must have been. Just like you should be in fact.

          • WILD KATIPO 12.2.2.1.1
            20 July 2017 at 12:38 pm

            Calm down ?… L0L !… I assure you I am very calm. 🙂

            … ” It must be terrible to find that someone you clearly idolise is a crook ” …

            HAHAHAA !, – wrong again !

            I’m voting LABOUR this election .

            AND WHY?

            Because I am going to help with shoring up a strong left wing base. The end objective ?… to aid in crushing neo liberalism, – and to do that , – you work within, – and Peters is a big part of that strategy whether he forms a coalition with National or Labour.

            And no matter how it happens , or what party it takes, that is the end goal. To wreck your little plaything. That is playing what they call the ‘ long game’.

            We are going to get rid of you’re little buddies in Treasury and political influence , … of that you can be sure.

            Send my condolences to the New Zealand Initiative while your at it , please.

  13. Penny Bright 13
    19 July 2017 at 7:28 pm

    Who was the politician who led the fightback against corporate tax fraud in New Zealand – TWENTY – FIVE years ago?

    Lest we forget?

    https://www.facebook.com/penny.bright.104/posts/1733835296629155

    Michelle Boag – paid PR hack for Fay Richwhite against Winston Peters in the Winebox Inquiry (exposing NZ corporate tax fraud).

    I strongly recommend folks read this piece of history carefully ….

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-privatisation / anti-corruption campaigner’.

    2017 Independent candidate for Tamaki.

  14. WILD KATIPO 14
    19 July 2017 at 7:32 pm

    AAAAAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!….

    Here we go … Audrey Young…

    … ‘ New Zealand First is favoured as a coalition partner for National by virtually the same number who favour National keeping its current three support partners, according to a new online survey ‘ ….

    ** SO WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU about Peters strategy about undermining the Maori party and one of Nationals support party’s’, – or the amount of soft Nat voters fleeing the sinking ship ?

    … ” But a fairly large group also believe National would be better to go with the Green Party, according to the Herald ZB Kantar TNS survey.

    To the question “if National had to go into coalition after the election to form a government, which would work best,” 25 per cent opted for its current support partners, Act, United Future and the Maori Party.

    But 24 per cent believed New Zealand First would be best and 17 per cent thought Greens would be best ” …

    *** AHAHAHAAHAHA !

    YOU TOTAL DROPKICKS !!! SO WHAT DOES THIS SAY ABOUT the crumbling confidence in Nationals support partners and the rise of NZ First ?- even the Greens will have to be careful!

    This is what you get when people try to make concessions and play around and compromise with the neo liberal globalist ideology , – TOTAL POLITICAL CHAOS.
    And all it ever took was to let neo liberalism run its natural destructive course and a nationalist who stuck to his guns to upset the whole cozy arrangement.

    There . Not so painless after all, was it.

    Just go with it.

    Neo liberalism is over.

    • Alan 14.1
      19 July 2017 at 7:41 pm

      Kalm down Katipo, too many V drinks today?

      • WILD KATIPO 14.1.1
        19 July 2017 at 8:00 pm

        L0L … quite happy Sir !

        Name your poison.

        A quick kick up the arse from the Blairite Hypocrites or perhaps a good kick in the balls from the more oafish yet equally as effective neo liberal right ?

        * Don’t come on the cheap with me chump. If you have something worth saying spit it out and say it , coward. Until then, – shrink back into your lice ridden dog kennel and scratch a few fleas.

        And BTW – Calm is pelt with a ‘ C ‘- not with a ‘ K ‘

        No wonder Peters believes in traditional values …. half his critics cant even master the simple skills of applying basic written English language writing skills , it would appear…

        • alwyn 14.1.1.1
          19 July 2017 at 8:58 pm

          “pelt”, as in “Calm is pelt with”.
          That word usually means to “hurl missiles at” or “the skin of an animal that still has the fur attached”.
          Did you perchance mean “spelt”. And did you perhaps mean to write can’t rather than cant?
          I hesitate to bring these minor errors up but if I don’t I imagine “marty mars” probably will.
          He hates typographical errors.

        • Alan 14.1.1.2
          19 July 2017 at 9:20 pm

          you are too klever for me

          • lprent 14.1.1.2.1
            20 July 2017 at 7:48 am

            That does not appear to be a very high bar. Looking at this conversation it appears to me that my server would be ashamed at serving this drivel. I suspect that, even as stupid as it is, that it wouldn’t descend to your passive aggresive whimpering.

        • joe90 14.1.1.3
          19 July 2017 at 11:04 pm

          Muphry!

    • Penny Bright 14.2
      19 July 2017 at 9:34 pm

      Enjoying and agreeing with your political analysis Wild Katipo 🙂

      Very astute IMO.

      Cheers!

      Penny Bright

  15. savenz 15
    19 July 2017 at 8:44 pm

    At least Winston’s backtracked on this one.

  16. Psycho Milt 16
    19 July 2017 at 9:23 pm

    But two days later his position has appeared to have changed, and rather dramatically.

    Quelle surprise! That shit was two days ago. Winston doesn’t have time for journalists dredging up historical issues from the past, and any journalists who want to lie that he made unequivocal statements about bottom lines should remember that NZ voters aren’t fooled by their attempts to mislead. ‘Twas ever thus.

  17. Penny Bright 17
    19 July 2017 at 10:13 pm

    Seen THIS?

    Any other NZ political party leaders talking about taking on the Aussie banks?

    https://www.interest.co.nz/business/88672/nz-firsts-winston-peters-blames-subservient-puppetized-nz-politicians-lack-probe-nz

    “NZ First’s Winston Peters blames ‘subservient puppetized NZ politicians’ for the lack of a probe into the NZ banking system.

    Says Aussie banks are ‘like a hole in the hull of the NZ economy’.”

    • alwyn 17.1
      19 July 2017 at 11:28 pm

      It is rather a shame that just as Winston is promoting Kiwibank as being his favourite New Zealand bank they are having to admit that their major computer systems upgrade is running a couple of years late and is already about 40% over its $100 million budget.
      Sounds about par for Winnie’s preferred projects.

      • dukeofurl 17.1.1
        20 July 2017 at 7:57 am

        What has A Kiwibank IT budget have to do with NZF ?

        Its not like the IRD computer ‘upgrade/debacle in waiting’ which National has wrapped its self around.

        • alwyn 17.1.1.1
          20 July 2017 at 10:07 am

          Haven’t you heard?
          Winston has, as one of his many “bottom lines” that all Government banking business must be done using Kiwibank.
          He thinks that are the only “proper” bank in New Zealand.
          Good luck with that one.

  18. David Mac 18
    19 July 2017 at 10:18 pm

    I smell Silver Fox cunning.

    It makes good strategic sense for Winston to float out some red herring bottom lines. Come negotiation time Winston can relinquish aspects of his policy that were created primarily to give up. Like this nationwide referendum on the Maori seats.

    • David Mac 18.1
      19 July 2017 at 11:26 pm

      I’d imagine the parties Winston will be negotiating with will be delighted to hear he is prepared to give up his referendum on cutting the MP count from 120 to 100. A politician looking to shrink government smacks of hidden agenda.

  19. David Mac 19
    20 July 2017 at 12:08 am

    Without giving up any of NZ First’s primary initiatives with this slash the MPs referendum thing Peters is maneuvering into a position whereby he can state to whoever is on the other side of the negotiation table…

    “About a half dozen of you stand a good chance of losing your jobs or we start a rail link between Whangarei and Auckland ports next month.”

    Such influence on such a minor vote share. Gives up little, ticks off lots on the bona fide wishlist . Shrewd as.

    I wish he’d just buy a Toyota franchise, I reckon he could move 20 Corollas a day.

  20. CLEANGREEN 20
    20 July 2017 at 9:10 am

    “Michelle Boag – paid PR hack for Fay Richwhite against Winston Peters in the Winebox Inquiry (exposing NZ corporate tax fraud)”

    Thanks for that snippet of information Penny !!!

    Yes it was John Key around that time 25yrs ago that he had appeared as the “broker” who made $40 Million from the public purse by arranging the sale of our Rail asset to Wisconsin Rail/Fay/Richwhite consortium correct?

    Helen Clark/Michael Cullen approached this underhanded “brokering” involving John Key’s plan to make $40 million from the tax-payers of NZ in 2007-8 when he failed to declare his family involvement in the rail Company then with a large shareholding, and all this evidence is lodged into the Government Hansard files of that time.

    So John Key was another “winebox” type fraudster also!!!!!

    No wonder Michele Boag is hovering around this honey pot like a stinging hornet!!!!!!