Workers be careful, says Aussie Unionist

Written By: Dancer - Date published: 10:13 pm, May 7th, 2008 - 158 comments
Categories: workers' rights - Tags: ACTU, labour, national, Unions, workers' rights

Sharan Burrow (President of Australian Council of Trade Unions) talked to Morning Report about the union experiences in Australia under a conservative government, and their hope for the future with Kevin Rudd. She also had some words of warning for NZ workers:

“We say to your workers here, be very careful, you don’t want to go backwards to the early 90s, it’s a world that is not good for working people. Rights at work are fundamental and I would urge all of your workers to make sure that political parties here, if they want to change the government, actually, do the right thing by workers.

Certainly when we look across the ditch….we see you with a rights base that’s been reconstructed after the era of the early 90s that does much better things with collective bargaining, much more respectful of workers. And we were so envious of that in the last eleven years. So be careful, don’t go backwards, that’s our message.”

It highlights that Labour Relations is core policy for the left. The extent to which National can make itself a small target on this one will be really interesting.

UPDATE: Radion NZ podcast here.

158 comments on “Workers be careful, says Aussie Unionist ”

Comments are now closed

vto 1

8 May 2008 at 8:04 am

An area I applaud labour on. Sticking up for the workers.

Mind you, sometimes they get carried away …
big bruv 2

8 May 2008 at 8:47 am

Great…so Labour “stick up for workers”

Is this why our wages are so far behind Aussie? Labour have had nine years to improve the lot of the working man yet the gap continues to grow.
higherstandard 3

8 May 2008 at 8:51 am

BB

You forget the Standard line on this issue it’s the employers fault that wages are lower than Australia.

[lprent: I’ve never said anything about workers rights. Tane and Irish usually do.]

IrishBill says: Wrong HS – http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=945 but given it’s employers who have failed to invest in productive capital and who have spent the last eight years making big profits while paying wage increases only a little higher than inflation I think they can probably shoulder some of the blame.
mawgxxxxvi 4

8 May 2008 at 9:12 am

Surely union officials have a vested interest in workers remaining union members irrespective of the real benefit to the workers, after all their jobs and salaries depend on worker union fees.

As far as income levels are concerned isn’t it funny how those who earn the most are not members of unions ? The highest earners are those who take responsibility for their own lives and don’t hand that off to unions (or governments ). Being a union member is not a good predictor of a high income.
IrishBill 5

8 May 2008 at 9:19 am

Maw, do you ever make a statement that is based in fact? Union members get higher wages than their non-unionised peers. The highest increases in earnings however, are senior management. Last year the average salary increase for CEO’s of large companies was 25%. Here’s a tip: CEO’s generally are not union members.

To be honest you’re continual stream of mis-information is becoming a little dull.
jafapete 6

8 May 2008 at 9:31 am

Magwxxxxvi, a truely magnificent display of ignorance! Allow me to disabuse you of some of your blind prejudice.

“Surely union officials have a vested interest in workers remaining union members irrespective of the real benefit to the workers.”

Fact: workers are free to join or leave unions in this country (where there is one available).
Fact: research here, as elsewhere shows that NZ workers have a largely instrumental approach to union belonging. There are a few who join for ideological reasons, but they are relatively very few.
Fact: research shows that not only are union members generally very positive with their unions (as one would expect, belonging being voluntary), but a substantial chunk of the non-members in unionised workplaces believe that they would be worse off without unions (call these people free-riders). These people see benefits in belonging, and are in a better position to judge this than you are, mawgie.
Fact: research also shows that in NZ, as elsewhere, a substantial number of those in non-union workplaces say that they would like to join if they could. Around 30%. Most of the rest are indifferent, as one might expect given that (the research shows) these people tend to know little about unions. Very few think that they would be worse off with a workpace union.

Then you say, “As far as income levels are concerned isn?t it funny how those who earn the most are not members of unions?”

If we look at the employed, you will be surprised to learn that levels of unionisation RISE as income rises, until well into the top tax bracket. Same with education, rises to post-graduate degree level. You are surprised because your views are rooted in mid-20th century prejudice and bear little relationship to 21st century reality. What does the modal union member look like? Forget the cloth cap and think nurse-manager. (Did I mention gender? More female unionists than male, now).

So, mawgie, now you have no excuse for your ignorance. References available on request.
Steve Pierson 7

8 May 2008 at 9:33 am

maw. it’s not true that the highest paid professions are not unionised – look at how highly unionised doctors are.

In fact, some of the high paid professions are not just unionised they effectively have guilds, which is but a stroger form of collecive organsiation than a union – the Law Society, the Chartered Accountants, the Medical Council – they police their industry, prevent people they don’t want from practising in it and, as the is the point of any workers’ collective, ensure good rates and conditions for their members.

Capitialists form ‘unions’ all the time – the Employers’ and Manufacturers’ Assocation, the Chambers of Commerce, Business NZ, the Business Roundtable, dozens of industry lobby groups. These are all forms of collective organisations intended, just like a union, to improve the conditions and rewards for their members.

Collective action makes sense,united people are much stronger than they are divided – good lobby groups get the outcomes their members want, highly unionised industries have higher pay. So it is not surprising to find that the oldest and most highly educated professions and busiensses have very strong collective control of their industry. It’s just when the working people do it that it gets opposed.
mawgxxxxvi 8

8 May 2008 at 10:05 am

IrishBill: “Last year the average salary increase for CEO’s of large companies was 25%. Here’s a tip: CEO’s generally are not union members.” Doesn’t that demonstrate my point ? You don’t get to be CEO of an organisation by letting other people take responsibility for your life or by joining a union.

What can unions offer you ? Maybe a pay increase at the rate of inflation or slightly above if you are a member of a particularly powerful one ? My concern about unions is that encourage people to hand over responsibility for their lives and facilitate “learned helplessness”.
mawgxxxxvi 9

8 May 2008 at 10:16 am

Steve: you make some goods points with your comments concerning professional societies. I am sure however that the members of these societies don’t accept limitation of their income by the societies and that they set their own fees based on what the market will allow. I’m also sure that the most highly paid medical practitioners are not on salary with the state but are in private practice even if they contract back services to the state.

IrishBill says: “limitation of their income” makes no sense. Collective agreements are minimum rate documents. All union members are free to negotiate individual terms and conditions above their collective and many do so. What employers can’t do is offer terms and conditions below the collective: it sets minimum standards. You have no idea of Employment Law, Maw and I suggest you do some research before you make further comment.
IrishBill 10

8 May 2008 at 10:17 am

“You don’t get to be CEO of an organisation by letting other people take responsibility for your life or by joining a union.”

Maw, unless your are part of a lucky sub-one-percent group you don’t get to be a CEO full-stop. Are you, for example, a CEO of a major New Zealand company? If you are not and also clearly not a union member I would like to ask you what’s holding you back?

AS for “learned helplessness” you obviously have no idea about how unions run these days. They are voluntary organisations run by their membership. That means union members decide on what they are going to ask for, union members sit at the negotiating table and union members vote on to accept the deal or to take industrial action. The only roles officials have is as expert advocates in negotiations and grievances.

If anything unions are the vehicle through which workers get together to take responsibility for their working lives.
Neilson 11

8 May 2008 at 10:20 am

Mawg

CEO’s are not in a position to join a union as they are the employer and sign collective agreements with the union and negotiate (or send a rep) the agreement and they could not be negotiating the contract or attending the meetings where discussions are held about what bottom lines the staff have in negotiating as this would give management an unfair advantage in the negotiations.

Also there is only one CEO in an organisation whose remuneration is negotiated with the board (their employer)

For these reasons they cannot join the union and so the comparison is invalid.

Regards
Alexander

Captcha
needy Incorporated – very apt
Hoolian 12

8 May 2008 at 10:28 am

I’ve heard terrible stories about the unions in Australia – like striking because the slices of ham (provided by the company) at lunch were too thin, or because their coke machines were removed.

The Aussies love Kiwi workers because we’re such hard-working, productive workers who get down to it and get the job done.

I’m totally for and in support of Worker’s rights, but I also know you can go overboard. We don’t want that here in NZ.
James Kearney 13

8 May 2008 at 10:32 am

I’ve heard terrible stories about the unions in Australia – like striking because the slices of ham (provided by the company) at lunch were too thin, or because their coke machines were removed.

I heard of an employer in Australia who fucks pigs. So what?
jafapete 14

8 May 2008 at 10:39 am

Well, it doesn’t look like Mawg’s about to let facts and logic get in the way of his/her prejudice. And Hoolian, has it never occurred to you that striking over slices of ham might just be due to numerous other causes of discontent including, quite often, poor management?

So… back to the real question. Are workers’ rights under threat come November?

I’ve concluded elsewhere that it does seem that National have cottoned on to how unpopular anti-worker laws are. Certainly, the fate of Howard and his Workchoices law provides a sobering reminder.

Since Key took over, the hysterical attacks on the ERA by Wayne Mapp have diminished, and noises have been made about no substantial changes being made to the current settings. We await the release of their policy with optimism, tempered with fear of backsliding after the election (should they win).

What do you think?

IrishBill says: The only policy National has explicitly confirmed in relation to work rights is the removal of all work rights for workers in the first 90 days of a new job. I think that’s a good indication of where they stand on IR.
IrishBill 15

8 May 2008 at 10:41 am

And I’ve heard terrible stories about employers in Australia like the behavior of Patrick Stevedoring in the late nineties:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/07/2209454.htm

Australia is a far more robust employment environment in which both sides are more aggressive than they are here.

Having said that many Australian based companies make a much higher profit to investment here because they import their aggressive behavior. This is curtailed to some extent by the current employment law (although I would argue we need strong protections) Under the liberalised employment environment the National party wants workers here would have to bow to this rapacious behaviour or start employing the much harder tactics of Australian unions. My advice to employers who back the reintroduction of ECA-type legislation is be careful what you wish for.
Billy 16

8 May 2008 at 10:44 am

But…but…but…IrishBill, I thought balking at giving money away to Australians was xenophobic.

http://www.thestandard.org.nz/?p=1867
randal 17

8 May 2008 at 10:46 am

well the tories wont win this year or in the forseeable future so workers look to be reasonably protected
IrishBill 18

8 May 2008 at 10:49 am

Don’t be facetious Billy.
mawgxxxxvi 19

8 May 2008 at 10:57 am

Note to self: be wary of commenting on unions on a Labour party blog.

Gentleman: you have corrected some of the misunderstandings I had about modern unions. I was a member of (and briefly a delegate for) the NLGOU way back in the 80’s. During that period I witnessed many examples of union stupidity especially by the other big union on site the EWU. Times as you say, have changed.

IrishBill says:Happy to be of service but please note this is not a Labour party blog but a labour movement blog. There is a significant difference.
vto 20

8 May 2008 at 11:05 am

Anyone here concerned about employer/business-owner rights?

While I applaud those that stick up for the workers, as I said often it goes too far. And everything this govt has done has quite simply made it harder to employ people and own and operate a business. Well done. IrishBill’s statement (copied below) is a perfect example.

How about making it easier to employ people for a change.

IrishBill said: “The only policy National has explicitly confirmed in relation to work rights is the removal of all work rights for workers in the first 90 days of a new job.”

Ever think IrishBill that the reverse is actually the case i.e. is the re-instigation of employer rights?
Dim (was dime) 21

8 May 2008 at 11:08 am

yea bruv, its the evil business owners that dont pay their stuff enough money!

it makes me sick, these people put everything on the line, they start a business.. work their asses off.. have all the stress and worries… and yet they dont share their profits with the workers!

what scumbags!
mike 22

8 May 2008 at 11:18 am

“Union members get higher wages than their non-unionised peers”

Not in my work place IB
Non union workers are generally rewarded with performance bonuses – coincidently of course…

IrishBill says: Free-loading is a problem with the current law. Having said that the performance bonuses would be a lot lower if there was no union on site (and the pay increases would be higher if union density was 100%). I’m would say that the workers at your site earn more than workers doing the same job at a comparable but un-unionised site.
vto 23

8 May 2008 at 11:19 am

Agree with your sentiment Dime.

I have a business, which at its peak last year had over 100 people employed directly and roughly the same again indirectly in supply. My wife and I and our children put EVERYTHING on the line. The stress, work, etc etc etc etc is ridiculous. And then you get slammed left right and centre by especially Cullen and his ilk.

I tell you a truth. I have the ability to keep this business going and ramp it up even. Quite a contribution to the community I would have thought. But frankly it is simply not worth it. I am pulling back. This is a truth.

I will simply sit back, put my energy into other aspects of life, and wait until the settings are improved before getting economically (and hence employingly) active again.

Usually those that employ have had experience at employment. However, it seems those that are employed have no experience at employing. Why don’t you givt it a go and see what it’s like.

IrishBill says: I assume from our previous exchanges that you have a building business. Given the current change in that industry (such as decrease in consents) I’m guessing employment law is one of the less important factors in your business decisions. Or did you expand in the 1990’s?
jafapete 24

8 May 2008 at 11:24 am

Big Bruv & Dime,

Oh, so it’s the employers who do all the work? Silly me, here I was thinking that the workers might have had a hand.

Note that not all employers have set up their own businesses in the recent past. Think Doug Myers, one of your heroes. Inherited most of his pile, and, according to the Court of Appeal [Coleman v. Myers], pinched much of the rest of it off his rellies.

Note also that clever employers have discovered that treating their employees well, including paying them well, results in better organisational performance, including higher profits for the shareholders. Your distorted view of the world has more to do with Dicken’s England than a modern corporation.
James Kearney 25

8 May 2008 at 11:27 am

Anyone here concerned about employer/business-owner rights?

In a social democracy you have to strike a balance but don’t pretend New Zealand is some kind of workers’ paradise. We have some of the most neoliberal employment law in the developed world.

Your problem is your benchmark is the Pinochet-esque employment law ushered in by the Nats in the 1990s.
IrishBill 26

8 May 2008 at 11:27 am

“And everything this govt has done has quite simply made it harder to employ people and own and operate a business”

VTO, no what they have done is transfer some accountability onto the employer. In my opinion if employers can’t deal with what is a pretty liberal and simple employment law they should probably not be employers.

Dime, you’ve got nothing but empty rhetoric. New Zealand is the second highest rated country in the world for ease of doing business. Most workers depend on their jobs to feed and house themselves and their families. What you are suggesting is that the a large part of the risk businesses take (and which businesses gain the reward from) is transfered to their workers. For instance the stress and worry of whether tomorrow would mean having a job to go to would be transfered onto workers for the first 90 days of their employment if National got their way. Of course there would be no extra reward for these workers.

I figure you probably see that as fair but I think you’ll find you’re in the minority there.
mawgxxxxvi 27

8 May 2008 at 11:29 am

IrishBill: thanks for the clarification re the blog provenance. A friend in the hospitality business in Wellington told me that the Standard was run out of the 9th floor, clearly she was wrong. I’ll put her right. Thanks
Dim (was dime) 28

8 May 2008 at 11:42 am

i lived in aussie for 5 years and having a 90 day trial was just outstanding.

irishbill – ever employed someone? ever got it wrong? its grief!!! a 90 day trial is fair. if youre a good worker – you have nothing to worry about? why are we trying to protect slackers?

I have employed people and I have never had a bad experience. If you manage people properly it’s not a problem. Getting rid of people for non-performance under the ERA is also not a problem as long as you give them an opportunity to sharpen up.

as for empty rhetoric, its just what goes through my head when i turn on the radio and i hear some unionist demanding a slice of the profits because a company has had a good year.. i dont see it going the other way when companies have a bad year.

Oh but it does. A zero percent increase when times are tough for a business is certainly not unknown in business circles (thankfully, much less so now that there has been economic growth).

i guess it just comes down to envy… we should admire business owners that are doing well, it should inspire us to better ourselves.. not just put our hand out.

Envy? That’s the stupidest thing you’ve said yet and you’ve said some pretty stupid things. Most workers are happy to see their boss do well but like to see their share of the gains they help make. A sensible employer does share because they understand that this will increase their workers’ desire to help the business grow.

VTO – theres a lot to be said for keeping a business at a certain level.. work/life balance and all that.
Matthew Pilott 29

8 May 2008 at 11:50 am

dime – when you say it was outstanding, I assume you mean from an employer’s perspective?
vto 30

8 May 2008 at 11:54 am

IrishBill, it is a tough and brutal world that is for sure. One thing – you suggest that the 90 day trial period is transferring the accountability onto the worker implying that it should actually rest with the employer.

I don’t understand that reasoning (or even what the reasoning is). The risk is that the employee is a dud – why should that risk not lie with the employee?
Daveo 31

8 May 2008 at 11:54 am

i lived in aussie for 5 years and having a 90 day trial was just outstanding.

There is no 90 day trial in Australia. Howard’s workchoices law allowed employers with fewer than 100 staff to sack workers for no reason whatsoever regardless of how long they’ve been employed. There have been some bloody horror stories.
Dim (was dime) 32

8 May 2008 at 12:01 pm

actually from both sides.

i went through a 90 trial with my first ever job. no problems.

i became management and some people didnt survive after 90 days. so yeah it was good for my department.

i then changed jobs down the track and at the end of 90 days i had a meeting with management. i basically went in to say see ya later and they said “its not quite working out is it”.. to which i replied.. nope! so it was see ya later!

the 90 day trial is just that..a trial.. looking back, if i hadnt of gone through that 90 day trial.. i probably would have stuck around an extra few months, been unhappy.. was good to have a time frame.. from there i went on to achieve greatness somewhere else 🙂

its sad that people think a 90 day probation period or whatever you want to call it, will just be used for evil.

employers dont set out to employ bad staff!! trust me, no employer wants to let someone go after 3 months! its freakin grief employing people.

its not a good look either! not good for staff morale, not good for a companies customers to see staff turnover etc.

do you really have a problem with a company having some protection in this area?
IrishBill 33

8 May 2008 at 12:09 pm

The risk is that the employee is a dud – why should that risk not lie with the employee?

Vto, Because being in business means taking risks in exchange for rewards. Every time a business invests in any way it takes a risk. Unless you are going to argue that the risks of capital investments should be underwritten by the law then I don’t see how you can argue that investments in workers should be. If you decide to expand to a bigger workshop, don’t do due diligence on the building and then find it was a poor business decision then who’s fault is that?
big bruv 34

8 May 2008 at 12:10 pm

The Poms have a law (I assume it still stands) that allows you to fire an employee for any reason at all within the first 12 months, personally I think that just invites abuse, I favour the 90 day trial period.

Dime is right, employers should and must have some protection in this area.
vto 35

8 May 2008 at 12:20 pm

IrishBill, I gotta fly, but just quickly.. your argument is a huge tub into which most anything could be tossed.

The employee presents at the interview, holds him/herself out as being appropriate for the job and capable of performing it and is taken on on that basis. When it transpires shortly after that the employee is not in fact so capable etc then the problem should rightly lie with the employee, not the employer.

There is no comparison with items of capital expenditure. You can check a building, check a machine, etc and get it pretty accurate. In fact, following your comparison – if an item of machinery is purchased and does not perform as promised then you send it back (or similar).

I understand your argument but do not accept it as appropriate in employment circumstances.
IrishBill 36

8 May 2008 at 12:22 pm

Dime, many employers would take advantage of such a situation and most of them would be employers of vulnerable low-skilled workers such as fast-food workers and cleaners. Many of these employers already show disregard for their workers under the current legislation and would happily exploit their workers further given the chance.
Dim (was dime) 37

8 May 2008 at 12:28 pm

irish bill – wtf??

so if this law came in, maccas would start hiring people and firing them after 90 days.. for fun?? it makes no sense.

as for your risk/reward thing.. just weird.

VTO answered that well enough.. so no need for my 2 cents

IrishBill says: moron. If you run renewing 90 day contracts you effectively keep your workforce without rights. That means no grievance costs and no union (if they join a union you fire them) and that means massive labour savings.
vto 38

8 May 2008 at 12:29 pm

Without a 90 day trial, or similar, employing someone is an outright gamble.

IrishBill says: when I employ people I have taken the time to check their references and to background them. I also spend a decent time interviewing them and getting to know who I’m dealing with. I haven’t had a dud yet. It’s called good management and it means I don’t need a law that would harm tens of thousands of workers just because I’m not up to scratch. If you feel you do then you should consider sharpening up your HR practices.
mondograss 39

8 May 2008 at 12:35 pm

You can do a 90 day trial period in NZ, it’s quite legal and in fact I had one at my current job when I started last year. The thing is though, you still have to follow standard dismissal procedures if you decide not to continue. An employer cannot sack you at the end of the 90 days without having good reasons, or made a decent effort to work through whatever issues have caused the arrangement to not work out. They can’t however just sack you for no reason and with no comeback, which is what National are proposing. Mapps bill is a violation of natural justice, if you hired someone in good faith, you have an obligation to make it work. If it turns out they lied about the skills or quals then you can sack them on that basis, but if they’re just lacking in a bit of training, or the attitude is a bit poor etc you have to give them a chance to make good.
Dim (was dime) 40

8 May 2008 at 1:02 pm

haha there we go again with the name calling?

i’m not sure where i spoke renewing 90 day contracts? why would anyone do that? weird. it’s only for the first 90 days of employment.

good to see you’re the perfect manager 🙂 well done for never having a problem.

also good to see you make shit up to justify your position.

just so im clear irish – you’re a moderator here? or you have something to do with the site?

IrishBill says: take some time to read up and find out. You’re banned from commenting for a week for calling me a liar.
randal 41

8 May 2008 at 1:06 pm

gosh it is really fun reading natoinal propaganda from people who obvioulsy have never owned their own business at all but any business that is not prepared to stand by its workers is no business at all…just an outlet for neanderthals to stand over people who need money to feed their families.
Dim (was dime) 42

8 May 2008 at 1:15 pm

[deleted]

[lprent: Irish banned you for a week. See above]
Dim (was dime) 43

8 May 2008 at 1:26 pm

[deleted]

[lprent: I suggest you read the Policy page at the top of the screen, and yes Irish is a moderator (otherwise he can’t leave comments on comments).]
jafapete 44

8 May 2008 at 3:04 pm

Quite ironic that dime got “sacked” from the blog for a week, no? Albeit with cause. So he won’t have any problems with that.

Mondograss is quite correct, except that employees who lie about their quals, etc, to get a job can generally be sacked at any time when this is discovered, with no comeback, not just within 3 months.

Dime probably had a 3 month “trial” in Oz rather like that in NZ which Mondgrass describes, but didn’t realise that he counldn’t be sacked at the end of it. Given his grasp of these matters I’d be surprised if that weren’t the case.

The UK experience is telling. Especially when the labour market is loose, many employers of the low-paid routinely sack these workers just before the 12 month period ended, so avoiding any legal obligations that come with permanent employment.

Incidentally, many fast food operators get around the law by hiring on a casual basis, rostering week-by-week. So, if someone talks about joining the union, say, they simply don’t find themselves rostered to work.
Billy 45

8 May 2008 at 3:11 pm

“…employees who lie about their quals, etc, to get a job can generally be sacked at any time when this is discovered, with no comeback, not just within 3 months.”

No. You still have to follow the tiresome process and if you trip up on any step you’re in the cart. If you see an employee wandering around the factory floor chopping his colleagues ears off you have to sit him down and ask him for his side of the story, consider his explanation in an open-minded fashion, allow him to bring his support person blah blah blah. And even if you do it all right, he’ll file with the employment relations tribunal and you’ll have to spend $5k on a lawyer even if you win. So it will be cheaper to give him $3k to piss off, so he can start chopping off ears at the next place.
Redeye 46

8 May 2008 at 4:20 pm

I wanted to contribute here but I’m not exactly in agreement with Irish and it seems that unless you are, your out. So I wont.

[lprent: Disagreeing with people is fine – people do it here all of the time.
Abusing them isn’t. In this case directly saying he was a liar without a shred of evidence was definitely over the top. That was just trying to start a flamewar.

This is all in the Policy document at the top of the page. Read that.

The difference isn’t hard to figure out. Just think about what you’d take as a personal attack, compared to a disagreement about ideas.]
jafapete 47

8 May 2008 at 4:30 pm

Billy, Not a bad summary of the check-list, but flawed overall.

Presumably you mean Employment Relations Authority, the Tribunal having ceased operations eight years ago.

Firstly, the law is very clear about sacking people who have demonstrably lied about themselves, so that if someone was silly enough to take a case to the Authority, you would have a great case to claim costs. In mediation the mediator would be bound to make it clear to the complainant that they would take a bath in the ERA.

Secondly, one would hope that you would go through the “tiresome process” in the real world (as opposed to your imaginary world where workers chop each others’ ears off). what do you think that the effect is on the other workers if you just go around arbitrarily sacking people, as you are proposing?

And can’t you see that when you pay out $3,000 every time someone threatens you with the ERA you are simply making that an expectation? I advised an employer who had fallen into that trap to call the workers’ bluff (they had no case) and take it to court if necessary. Know what? No more spurious actions. Everyone got the message. You don’t have to be that clever to work this out, but obviously it pays to think a little more about it than you have.
Matthew Pilott 48

8 May 2008 at 4:37 pm

Redeye, please go for it – just best not to call someone a liar on their own blog. Irish explained what some do worry could become commonplace in certain industries with a 90-day bill.

Billy – for serious misconduct your contact can generally be terminated without notice. Ear-chopping, inappropriate pig relations and lying about qualifications all would constitute serious misconduct.

If the employee feels it is unjustified the can take a complaint to teh employment relations authority, but if they lied about their qualifications, they’d probaby be tossed out on their ear!

Check out some better examples:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10507227

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=189&objectid=10493521
Billy 49

8 May 2008 at 4:39 pm

“Firstly, the law is very clear about sacking people who have demonstrably lied about themselves, so that if someone was silly enough to take a case to the Authority, you would have a great case to claim costs. In mediation the mediator would be bound to make it clear to the complainant that they would take a bath in the ERA.”

An employee lying about him or herself gives an employer a good reason to sack the employee. But, if the employer fails to follow a fair process it is the employer who will be bathing.

“What do you think that the effect is on the other workers if you just go around arbitrarily sacking people, as you are proposing?”

Do you think sacking someone for removing body parts is arbitrary?

“And can’t you see that when you pay out $3,000 every time someone threatens you with the ERA you are simply making that an expectation?”

Yes. Do employers fall into the “trap”, as you call it? Every day.
Tane 50

8 May 2008 at 4:42 pm

But, if the employer fails to follow a fair process it is the employer who will be bath

People have a right to fair process, it’s that simple. Fair process is a part of the skillset a manager needs to do their job – if they can’t get their head around basic employment practices then they should reconsider their choice of career.
Billy 51

8 May 2008 at 4:44 pm

Tane, it is almost never big companies who get caught out. It is the plumber or the owner of the retail shop employing one or two people. They can’t afford an HR department, and they usually can’t afford to get it wrong. So lots of them try not to employ anyone.
big bruv 52

8 May 2008 at 4:54 pm

Dime

You should know the rules by now, all the Labour “luvvies” can abuse us all they like, we are not allowed the right of reply, if you do then you are banned.

You should not be surprised at this, Labour are all about double standards and breaking rules.
big bruv 53

8 May 2008 at 4:54 pm

More moderation?….you guys must be feeling the pressure.
Robinsod 54

8 May 2008 at 5:32 pm

They can’t afford an HR department, and they usually can’t afford to get it wrong. So lots of them try not to employ anyone.

Do they pay an accountant? Because tax law is more complicated than the ERA. But y’know Billy, if you want to reduce the rights of all New Zealand workers just so a few small employers can save a few hundred dollars on professional advice then I guess that’s your call.
Billy 55

8 May 2008 at 5:42 pm

There I was thinking you guys were against injustice…
Rattus Norvegus 56

8 May 2008 at 8:22 pm

[lprent: I suspect we have the reincarnation of Dim here again. But I’ll let it through to see if he has learnt a more civilized behaviour. It is fairly obvious he was never taught how to argue properly. Perhaps he can learn some lessons here.]

The exploitation of Dimebag was disgusting, he never even had a 90 day trial and here he is being persecuted, first with the crude insult, then by the Chinese style control of free speech and then by expulsion.

What type of ideal is this of free speech in a free country and in a free democracy ?

I hate fascists and all they stand for by controlling what is printed in order to pursue their own Utopian fallacy.

This is a fascist regime, for fascists, run by fascists.

Power to the people !! stand up and fight.

Dime, what a martyr, for speaking the truth.
Rattus Norvegus 57

8 May 2008 at 8:29 pm

And Matthew, if you take a complaint to the ERA they will chuck it out straight away, and force you to go to mediation. Your Lawyer takes it to the ERA afterwards.
Rattus Norvegus 58

8 May 2008 at 8:39 pm

In fact, some of the high paid professions are not just unionised they effectively have guilds, which is but a stroger form of collecive organsiation than a union – the Law Society, the Chartered Accountants, the Medical Council – they police their industry, prevent people they don’t want from practising in it and, as the is the point of any workers’ collective, ensure good rates and conditions for their members.

Huh ?
Those people are free to join a Union if they wish, and how do they prevent those who they do not want in ?

I’m lost, please explain this outrageous statement
Steve Pierson 59

8 May 2008 at 9:18 pm

Rattus. I’m talking about professional associations that are controlled by the professionals and have the legal power to prevent anyone not registered with them from practicing their profession – that’s basically a guild and modern versions include the Law Society and the Medical Council (you must be registered with them to practice). I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, I’m saying that’s an example of collective action in a profession to protect and improve the position of the members of the profession, it’s what a union does but stepped up a level. It’s not a surpirse that we find these stronger forms of collective action, backed by the power of legislation in the more highly paid professions.
leftie 60

8 May 2008 at 9:20 pm

I don’t get this common argument from employers referring to employment law and employing unsuitable employees: “But, if the employer fails to follow a fair process it is the employer who will be bathing.”

If I speed and get caught I get a speeding ticket. If I steal at work (commonly known as gross misconduct) and get caught it is grounds for instant dismissal. I know and accept the rules and if I break them I have to accept the consequences. Employers are right into calling it “compliance”, what’s so hard about complying with employment law? Follow the rules (comply), no problem the employee can be fairly (and rightly) dismissed. Break the rules, accept the consequences. Is this a genuine concern or simply a whinge? Perhaps it is a situation where the employer tries pushing the boundaries and gets called on it?
Matthew Pilott 61

8 May 2008 at 9:30 pm

Rattus, thanks for the clarification about the ERA. Doesn’t make much of a difference in the end…

As for dime’s ‘martyrdom’, ah, dime called someone a liar when they were completely wrong and perhaps a tad confused. Don’t let rationality disrupt your wee rant though.

Actually I retract that, you’re clearly taking the mickey there. If you ever fill out a personal, don’t forget the GSOH! Tee hee.
Matthew Pilott 62

8 May 2008 at 9:34 pm

Hey Bruv, I’m in moderation. This is now me not having a rant about it. Feel free to take note.
Rattus Norvegus 63

8 May 2008 at 9:36 pm

Rattus. I?m talking about professional associations that are controlled by the professionals and have the legal power to prevent anyone not registered with them from practicing their profession – that?s basically a guild and modern versions include the Law Society and the Medical Council (you must be registered with them to practice). I?m not saying that?s a bad thing, I?m saying that?s an example of collective action in a profession to protect and improve the position of the members of the profession, it?s what a union does but stepped up a level. It?s not a surpirse that we find these stronger forms of collective action, backed by the power of legislation in the more highly paid professions.

They have the power to exclude those who dont meet their professional standards. Such as a qualifications authority has he power to exclude those who do not pass exams. Its is not an authority to exclude those who are not idealogically one of us, but those who do not meet entry criteria, such as a degree, a professional competency exams, practical compentencies and a code of ethics, or else anyone could join.
Its about professional standards above all, for the public good.

Its not about prevention, its about meeting standards
Rattus Norvegus 64

8 May 2008 at 9:42 pm

[lprent: I suspect we have the reincarnation of Dim here again. But I’ll let it through to see if he has learnt a more civilized behaviour. It is fairly obvious he was never taught how to argue properly. Perhaps he can learn some lessons here.]

Huh, what do you mean by civilised behaviour ?

Is that agreeing with everything the downtrodden left and the salt of the earth workers say ?
Rattus Norvegus 65

8 May 2008 at 9:47 pm

Matthew

banning someone for speaking out does convey a sense of martyrdom, in the same way Lech Whelsa, Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Mahatma Ghandi, Martin Luther, Joan of Arc and Leon Trotsky were made famous for speaking out, and then persecuted.

IrishBill says: you forgot David Irving. I would have thought he’d be at the top of your list.
Rattus Norvegus 66

8 May 2008 at 10:03 pm

And come-on Matthew
I’ve read posts by this Irish Billy Chap as follows

“Maw, do you ever make a statement that is based in fact?”

“To be honest you’re continual stream of mis-information is becoming a little dull.”

“You have no idea of Employment Law, Maw and I suggest you do some research before you make further comment.”

“Don’t be facetious Billy.”

“Dime, you’ve got nothing but empty rhetoric.”

“Envy? That’s the stupidest thing you’ve said yet and you’ve said some pretty stupid things.”

“IrishBill says: moron”

In fact “Moron” came after Dime accused you of “also good to see you make shit up to justify your position.”.

Not once did Dimebag call this Irish Bobby chap anything.

I suggest this IrishBully grow some balls and learns to take back what he throws at people.

God, I’m glad I’m Scottish

[lprent: Let me make this quite clear. Around here I make the rules – you are a guest. The rules are very loose because there are limits on how much effort I’m willing to take. The simpliest solution for me is to simply kick people off and make sure they stay off. However the moderators have been encouraging me to not be such a bastard sysop.

Dim got kicked off because he walked over an edge. But Dim was on route there already because its comments appeared to not add much to the discussion apart from trying to start flamewars. I’d already had reason to warn Dim earlier – something that was obviously not read. Saying things to deliberately inflame poinless schoolyard level discussion is not tolerated by me. I have to read it.

Guess what – I’m the ONLY judge of what constitutes unacceptable behaviour here. Live with it or leave. It isn’t a topic for discussion.

Oh and I had a look at the discussion on Pandasport… Remember this is a moderated site frequented by adults – even their schoolyard antics have more intelligence than dim’s.]
lprent 67

8 May 2008 at 11:56 pm

BB: please put down the drink before reading this. I feel for your abused keyboard.

update wp_comments
set comment_author=’Dim (was dime)’
where comment_author in (‘dime’, ‘Dime’)

See here

Roughly translated this means “do not piss off a sysop”.
r0b 68

8 May 2008 at 11:59 pm

Matthew: Hey Bruv, I’m in moderation. This is now me not having a rant about it. Feel free to take note.

I end up in moderation too occasionally, maybe I share an IP with someone misbehaving. It’s nothing to fret about, comments usually clear moderation pretty fast.
r0b 69

9 May 2008 at 12:00 am

Lynn, your second link above is null.
r0b 70

9 May 2008 at 12:02 am

Hmmm – and your first link leads to a page we ordinary users can’t see (“You are not allowed to edit comments on this post”).

[lprent: picked the link off the admin pages. Should be correct now]
lprent 71

9 May 2008 at 12:05 am

Nope – it is the spam merchants that we’re fighting continuously. They try slipping the messages into old posts. The latest round are a bit more subtle. A lot are from local IP’s, and they’ve finally decided to stop selling sex and moved on to dvd’s, movies, and other things.

I’ll have another look at it after I get some other code out of the way.
Felix 72

9 May 2008 at 1:07 am

Wow, pandasport is amazing. People who use porno as avatars high-fiving each other for typing inane things at the standard.

Dim’s Motley Crue sig is particularly revealing.
vto 73

9 May 2008 at 8:47 am

Gotta say I think the levels of tolerance before banning etc on this site seem pretty low. Maybe let things slide a bit more. But its your show, you make the rules..

2c
big bruv 74

9 May 2008 at 9:09 am

Comrade Iprent

Rattus is NOT Dime.

Rattus, you should know by now that Iprnet only allows comments that praise dear leader, not surprising when you consider who pays for this site.

[Tane: Lynn pays for the site. You’re running pretty close to a banning with your repeated smears bruv – but I’ll leave that to Lynn’s judgement since it is him you are slandering.]

[lprent: I’m aware of that. I tracked back in the IP’s and links after making that statement.]
Matthew Pilott 75

9 May 2008 at 9:24 am

R0b – I know – my point was that bruv has a cry every time he is in moderation, like many on the right. They assume that it is censorship, so I wanted to pint out that it happens to us filthy Commies as well.

Rattus, Dime called Irish a liar. There’s not much more to it than that. How you can put someone who can’t follow an argument, gets confused and blames it on someone else by questioning their integrity in the same class as Mandela et al – you’re simply talking out your ass. He was not banned for speaking out, anyone with a modicum of intelligence can do so without resorting to accusing someone else of lying when they’re wrong. I doubt you have the ability to see that though, determined as you are to compare dime with…oh, you got me again! Another bloody great joke! And here I was thinking you are being serious. I need to lighten up. Comparing Dime with King… classic. We need more righties with a real sense of humour here, it’s pretty much just Billy and Phil at the moment.
Billy 76

9 May 2008 at 9:44 am

“…it happens to us filthy Commies as well.”

You told me you were a social democrat. I always suspected that was code for “filthy commie”.
Matthew Pilott 77

9 May 2008 at 9:54 am

Rumbled. Drat!

Billy, please note not all commies are filthy, many adhere to perfectly acceptable standards of personal hygiene.

vto – interesting two cents. No doubt in part due to my replying to the comments of various people on this thread, but it can turn away from a decent discussion into something not really worth it in fairly short order. In fact it only takes one or two comments for this to happen.

It’s perfectly understandable that the authors of this blog don’t want this to happen to each and every thread, so I can see quite clearly where they draw the line. Not to be rude, but if you’re happy with some of the crass comments that ruin a thread, well, your standards might be a bit low. It’s not what I come here to read, nor many other people, I suspect.
Jason 78

9 May 2008 at 10:10 am

I thought Idi Amin was dead but judging by the comments implying “I will just make up the rules as I like”, maybe he isn’t.

I am a dairy farmer. Our work situation compells our staff to live on the farm and work alongside me for up to as many as 105 hours a week. In a situation like this, you are not just trying to employ someone to aid in running the farm, you also need to be able to maintain a cordial and hopefully jovial relationship. It is very hard to determine through an interview process weather your initial feelings will be correct. At any stage in my employees contract, they can up and leave, just giving a weeks notice and go to happier fields if thats what they wish. I to, would like 1 opportunity, after 90 days, to be able to do the same thing. The business is mine, the farm likewise, yet because of an ass of a law, I can be locked into a situation whereby I work greater hours then most alongside a non combatible person and live 100 metres away from said employee for a whole 12 months.

Give me the opportunity to have 1 chance to be able to make the same decision that my employee has the right to make at any stage of the contract.

Dime made a very good point, the great majority of employers dont want a high turnover of staff, it just doesnt make good business sence.
big bruv 79

9 May 2008 at 10:16 am

Tane

What repeated smears?…I merely said “not surprising when you consider who pays for this site”

Do you have something to hide Tane?
Tane 80

9 May 2008 at 10:41 am

You’re implying that Helen Clark or Labour pays for our site, as you have in the past. They don’t, Lynn does, and he’s made this very clear. If you want to keep on this line of attack then fine, but don’t expect to get away with it here.
big bruv 81

9 May 2008 at 10:43 am

[Bruv, don’t take me for a fool. One more outburst and you’re banned for a month. For now you’re in moderation.]
Matthew Pilott 82

9 May 2008 at 10:56 am

I think bruv wants to be ‘martyred’ like his mate dime.

Jason, the law is not an ass – it is designed to encourage working relationships, not ensure that people are friends with their boss. You’re saying you want to be able to fire someone, not because they can’t do their job properly, but because you don’t find them ‘compatible’. The law is actually designed to protect employees from that very attitude!

Dime was right with his point that most employers wouldn’t be likely to do that, but those that deal with younger and more vulnerable staff might – the real ass would be enacting a law that allows for the removal of all workplace rights from a specific sector of society.

As for your comparison with a genocidal dictator – you’re an ass. Read the bloody about page if you want the rules.
Jason 83

9 May 2008 at 11:22 am

I’m sorry Matthew, clearly you have the experience of working in a situation where you are working extremely long hours, often in stressful times with someone only then to go home and live a stones throw apart from each other.

Clearly you have expereince that tells you that a compatible working relationship is irrelevant.

I’m going to make an assumption that you have not worked in such an occupation and are therefore unqualified to pass judgement on the dynamics required to make such a working relationship successful.

Note, that I didnt even begin to use examples of where staff are not capable of doing the jobs they have said they are and rather then being able to move them on and finding staff with the required knowledge or ability it is then incumbant on me to have to train them. This is regardless of weather I am actually in a situation where I can offer training.
vto 84

9 May 2008 at 11:28 am

Mr Pilott I think Jason makes a very good point..

Namely that the employee can simply up and off at a moment’s notice leaving the employer and the business completely in the lurch. Yet the employer cannot do the same, or even something remotely similar. That stands out to those out there doing business and employing people as highly unfair.

The pendulum is way out to one side.

Jason’s point re ‘friends’ cf employees is a grey area due to the nature of farming. It is very real and cannot be dismissed as you have done.
big bruv 85

9 May 2008 at 11:31 am

If the hat fits…..

[lprent: bb: I can see from earlier comments that you want to really really want the maytr halo. Are you sure you’re not some kind of fundamentalist? I think that leaving you in moderation here will be interesting. Think of it as an experiment]
Redeye 86

9 May 2008 at 11:44 am

Jason also inadvertantly highlights yet another point. How many ‘potential’ employers don’t become employers, or don’t increase the staff, simply because of the hassle in employing. The often used example of the Physiotherapist struggling with an answer machine in place of a receptionist simply because he doesn’t have the power to try before he buys.

I’m a software developer and currently have the work to employ at least 3 other coders today, but wouldn’t now consider it through previous bad experiences in this regard.

That said; I have seen how some in the hospitality industry in particular treat their employees. Those employees did need some protection.
Matthew Pilott 87

9 May 2008 at 11:49 am

Jason, and vto, if you have a proposal that could give you what you’re after without making thousands of vulnerable workers suceptable to exploitation then I promise you I’m all ears.

The 90 day bill is not that solution.

It might work for you and a few others in your situation (doubtless there are many, many individual similar situations), but the negative implications far outweigh this. Would yor really advocate a law change that could remove all working conditions for thousands of employees across the country, for your own benefit?

How do you propose to change a law that allows you to fire someone because you feel you can’t work with them? How would that not then flow on to make every new employee vulnerable to the whims of their employers? If you make an exception for situations where you give acommodation to the worker, for example, fruit pickers may be without rights as many orchards have live-in workers.

I am not dismissing the problem out of hand, as you say, I’m dismissing the solution – there is a distinction there!

Jason, if your problem is that staff are not fully trained, you make a condition of their employment that they are qualified/experienced. If they are not, then they have lied to you and you have an avenue to cease their employment. Is that a possibility?
AncientGeek 88

9 May 2008 at 11:51 am

Jason: I worked for 6 months in a town supply in my youth. I’d agree with you that it is a rather unique working experience. Especially the thermos tea at 0430. I was working with the share milker as the farm was owned by a lawyer (it was the 70’s – he was after the tax credits).

For me, that was the 18 months that I worked in a lot of places to gain real-world experience, and to decide if going to uni was worth the effort.

I don’t know what it is like now. But then the wages were pretty bad, and the hirelings like me were quite young. I’d come from doing night shift in a factory to a fifth of the income + food and board. I couldn’t imagine wanting to do it as a job for very long, not unless I had some sort of ownership state.

I was having to learn everything at a considerable rate of knots, being a city boy. I was also having to do it while sleep deprived for the first month while my sleep cycles shifted.

I’d be interested in what the wages are like now?
Matthew Pilott 89

9 May 2008 at 11:53 am

Redeye – I agree with the problem you have raised (I mean I agree it is a problem). In the end it is a tough balance to strike.

To be entirely honest with you all, I see the ‘power’ (and please don’t take ‘power’ to mean anything as randal mentioned above) as residing with the employer, so I think the balance needs to be in favour of the employee – that is, after all, why I’m a leftie!
vto 90

9 May 2008 at 11:57 am

Mr Pilott, I gotta go but I still think a trial period would be a suitable solution.

I really struggle to understand the ‘labour movts’ problem with it, especially given the very real problems the lack of a trial period makes for those doing the employing.

And you simply have to believe it when employers say ‘the last thing we want is staff turnover’. It is the truth.
jafapete 91

9 May 2008 at 12:03 pm

Matthew Pilot: “You’re saying you want to be able to fire someone, not because they can’t do their job properly, but because you don’t find them â€˜compatible’. The law is actually designed to protect employees from that very attitude!”

Point of clarification: People can be justifiably sacked for incompatibility. One such case involved an Air Nelson pilot as it happens… no relation I assume.
vto 92

9 May 2008 at 12:04 pm

One more thing Mr Pilott, I used to work as an in-house solicitor for a large NZ company. It involved a great deal of employment law work and problem solving across the company’s hundreds of staff. My experience from that is that the power does not lie completely with the employer. In different areas it lies with one or the other.

In the area of dismissal it lies very heavily with the employee, and that is exactly what is causing potential employers to simply refuse to employ where they can, as Redeye says above. That is also why the issue of a trial period keeps rearing its head.
jafapete 93

9 May 2008 at 12:14 pm

Rattus: “And Matthew, if you take a complaint to the ERA they will chuck it out straight away, and force you to go to mediation. Your Lawyer takes it to the ERA afterwards.”

And this is one of the things about the ERA that works really well. Even the most vociferous employer lobbyists (like Peter Tritt of the EMA Northern) have awarded mediation high marks. You might have noticed, Rattus, that one of the expressed aims of the ERA was to reduce the role that lawyers play in the employment relations. It was the ECA that opened up this pandora’s box, and sadly, it seems difficult to get rid of lawyers once they become involved — like an infestation of cockroaches…

Anyway, the vast majority of cases that go to mediation are resolved quickly and at minimal cost under the present regime. That is why I pointed out that the hypothetical ear-chopping or lies at interview cases probably wouldn’t get to the Authority.

Let’s hope that National are clever enough (should they win) to retain the emphasis on mediation, and continue the search to get rid of lawyers.

Rattus again: “I hate fascists and all they stand for …”

Hmm, and you’re the one who wants the right to sack people without having to demonstrate any reason whatsoever… for, say, joining a union. Very democratic that!
Brett Dale 94

9 May 2008 at 12:18 pm

Dime is 100% correct in his views and should not be banned, but thats the left for you, they can name call, and they can insult someone’s house, they can call people sleazy, but boy you guys on the left are so thinskinned, if someone says something negative about someone on the left, you banned them.

If you start up a business, it should be your right to let an employee go, if things arent working out, its “YOUR BUSINESS AND YOUR MONEY”

It should have nothing to do with any Union.

Bring Back the DIME.
jafapete 95

9 May 2008 at 12:19 pm

“In the area of dismissal it lies very heavily with the employee, and that is exactly what is causing potential employers to simply refuse to employ where they can, as Redeye says above. That is also why the issue of a trial period keeps rearing its head.”

Gosh vto and Redeye, haven’t you noticed the completely unprecedented GROWTH in employment over this period when employers were supposed to be resoultely refusing to employ more staff because they have to justify ithemselves when they want to sack them? Even the drop in employment reported yesterday is disproportionately amongst those who are not in permanent employment (and hence mostly women), it is said.

Sort of gives the lie to your rhetoric doesn’t it?
jafapete 96

9 May 2008 at 12:23 pm

Brett: “If you start up a business, it should be your right to let an employee go, if things arent working out, its “YOUR BUSINESS AND YOUR MONEY’

Yep, that’s called “redundancy”. Dismissal for redundancy is perfectly justified. See your lawyer for more details.
Brett Dale 97

9 May 2008 at 12:26 pm

lprent

This board is suppose to represent free speech, but it seems anyone who has a view that is not in line with Aunty Helen, gets banned.

The treatement of the poster Rattus, Dime and Big Bruv and saying they are the same person is disgusting, why not do a IP check, and then you will see they are different people.

Can anyone on the left tell me why you guys hate free speech??

[lprent: I did, as I’ve commented earlier. I did track them back to a site where they were gloating that they got banned – so I guess they got what they came for.

This is a moderated site – not a free speech site. Free speech sites are commonly full of spam and continuous flamewars, try usenet some time. Read Bruce Simpsons take on it Past its Use(net)-by date?.

The moderation isn’t for ideas – it is for behaviour. If people chose to act in a manner that doesn’t conform within the guidelines of the Policy page, then they will get moderated or banned. It doesn’t sound like you’ve read it]
Brett Dale 98

9 May 2008 at 12:28 pm

I’m not talking redundancy, im talking about firing dumb asses who don’t aren’t up to the job.
vto 99

9 May 2008 at 12:31 pm

jafapete, I said “causing potential employers to simply refuse to employ where they can,”. Note, “where they can”. What you raise introduces a whole pile of other issues into the debate to do with economic growth etc. So no your post does not give ‘lie to the rhetoric’ as you put it.
Brett Dale 100

9 May 2008 at 12:35 pm

Your going to banned Big Bruv for a month????

Your banning the best posters, who start the best debates.

This site reminds me of those nutters who supported Tami Iti when he got arrested on terrorism charges.

They were on the news chanting for people to stand up.

A man on the sidewalk, pointed out that the Police are just doing their job and one of the protesters screamed at the man “Shut up Free Speech”

To tell someone to Shut up and your reason for this is Free Speech, defines the left for me, you guys are 100% for free speech as long as the speech is what you believe in.

[lprent: see my note on your previous comment above]
jafapete 101

9 May 2008 at 12:42 pm

Brett, Thanks for the clarification. See my note above about the messages that you send the remaining staff if you sack people (or engage in other disciplinary action such as giving a warning) arbitrarily.

Unfair and inequitable treatment of any employees has a negative effect on the morale of all employees. So treating employees fairly and equitably pays off and clever employers treat the employees fairly and equitably.

If you were to look closely at the legal requirements for cause in dismissal, you would find that they are no more than a check-list for how to treat employees fairly and reasonably.

After all, employees have a common law duty to act in good faith towards their employers.

Note also that it works both ways, and *not* disciplining a slacker also has a deleterious effect on morale.
Matthew Pilott 102

9 May 2008 at 12:45 pm

jafapete – no such relation! (note the two ‘t’ surname…)

Brett, dime had some fine points. They didn’t get him banned. Don’t be disingenuous and entirely ignore the reason he was banned, you just look like an idiot! Why would you make such a pointless statement, when we know you’re not? “free speech” baselessly calling someone a liar – i’m not sure what your idea of it is Brett, but it’s a pretty peculiar interpretation.

WRT your other point, what kind of society would we live in if people could be fired at whim? How could society function if no one had any jobn security? You obviously have some strong convictions, but I can’t see much evidence you have tested them.

Most companies don’t want high turnover, true vto. Go back (when you have a few spare minutes) and read what Irishbill actually said to dime – he explains the problem of the 90 day bill, that none of you seem willing or able to see. Use your imagination – because no doubt some unscrupulous employers would, and some poor folk would potentially suffer immensely as a result.

vto – there are always excpetions, laws aren’t made for exceptions though.
jafapete 103

9 May 2008 at 12:46 pm

vto: May 9, 2008 at 12:31 pm: “jafapete, I said “causing potential employers to simply refuse to employ where they can,’. Note, “where they can’. What you raise introduces a whole pile of other issues into the debate to do with economic growth etc. So no your post does not give â€˜lie to the rhetoric’ as you put it.”

Gosh, just as well we had the current legal regime over the past decade then, otherwise we’d have been suffering much worse skill shortages than we have! Just think. We’d have had no unemployment at all! After all, those employers holding off would have mopped up the last 3.6% in a flash.

Sorry, vto, your argument doesn’t hold up.
Matthew Pilott 104

9 May 2008 at 12:53 pm

Brett, I’m going to clarify. Not becuse you need me to, because I believe you are pretending you don’t get it, or ignoring the obvious, to make a pathetic point about your interpretation of ‘the left’.

Dime got confused about the 90 day bill. He didn’t understand what Irishbill was saying and said that irish was “making s… up”. Dime was completely wrong, and got his just desserts.

Bruv implied the blog is funded by Labour. This annoyed our friendly sysop, who foots the bill. That’s why he is on moderation.

These two points weren’t hard to follow. If there was a 10 year old handy, I would like to take them through these points to illustrate how easy they are to understand, and that you are probably fully aware of what has gone on, and are simply being obnoxious when you fling around accusations of the left hating free speech.

(on a different note, I had a great moment of juvenile laughter when i saw my cap was “ball deposits”)
vto 105

9 May 2008 at 1:01 pm

jafapete, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

Unless I am missing something I do not see anything in either of your posts that goes anywhere near my points re a trial period. What you have done is spout some stats over changes in employment levels as if they illustrate something about the particular issue.

Try this from one of my posts above..

“I really struggle to understand the â€˜labour movts’ problem with (a trial period), especially given the very real problems the lack of a trial period makes for those doing the employing.”
jafapete 106

9 May 2008 at 1:11 pm

vto: “jafapete, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.”

That’s pun-ishing, I think.

vto: “I really struggle to understand the â€˜labour movts’ problem with (a trial period), especially given the very real problems the lack of a trial period makes for those doing the employing.’

You can look at my earlier post about the British experience, of workers (usually the low paid and most vulnerable workers) being sacked just before the 12 months comes up if you want an insight into the labour movement’s problems with the idea.

You might also look at the Aussie experience of “at will employment” when the so-called workchoices legislation took effect, alluded to by another commenter above. Some employers got carried away and the employer lobby groups and then government quickly had to get employers to lay off laying off until after the election. But by then the damage had been done.

Clever employers wouldn’t do anything much different than the law requires them to anyway, but it’s the others we’re worried about. And they tend to employ the most vulnerable workers.

Got it now?
big bruv 107

9 May 2008 at 1:15 pm

What many from the left hate to admit is that Labour relations in NZ are generally pretty good, 99% of workers are happy with their conditions and most do not see the need to belong to a union.

I worked in the UK for six years, at first I was shocked at the level of naked hostility between workers and management, as time went on I understood why this is the case, the workers expect the worst from Management and the Management expect the worst from the workers and their union, neither side ever seemed to disappoint each other.
vto 108

9 May 2008 at 1:25 pm

No.

Those two examples seem quite different from a short trial period.

In answer to my question you have done what most do – find some extreme examples to bolster ‘their side’ of the argument.

What you are saying is that if there is a trial period employers will simply fire people before the end of the trial period and take advantage of it. That is simply not true (except for exceptionals). What is the advantage in having a high staff turnover? Please tell me.

Look, this issue will not die because as things currently stand it is unbalanced in the employees favour. It will keep coming back and back until it finds an equilibrium. At the moment there is no equilibrium.
Matthew Pilott 109

9 May 2008 at 1:27 pm

Dearest bruv, in fact nothing thrills us more, knowing that workplace laws mean workers get a good deal (with the exception of overall pay rates, which has become an issue as of late), and we sleep the sleep of the contented knowing that Unions’ and Workers’ struggles over the decades have helped making NZ a great place to live and work in. Thanks for pointing that out though, and here I was thinking it’s all doom & gloom from you.
vto 110

9 May 2008 at 1:29 pm

Jafapete, just read your last post again. What you also say is that you are worried about the worst most nasty employers.

Well.. laws in an area like this should never be designed around the worst 1 or 2%. And that is a mistake that the left often make – generate laws around the minor minority which adversely affects the generally good majority. That is a schoolteacher trait which keeps the whole class behind because of the one kid that threw a dart. Hated that approach when I was a kid and hate it now. Cannot see how we would ever agree if that is your approach. Perhaps that is why this particular issue is not resolved yet.
Brett Dale 111

9 May 2008 at 1:31 pm

Matthew Pilott:

The banning of people isn’t consistent though.

A lot worse has been said, by those on the left, and you don’t need a ten year old to figure that out.

[lprent: Read the policy page at the top of the screen. Then you might know what you’re talking about. The key point is disruption and it is a judgement call. For instance it was apparent that Dim’s only purpose here was to disrupt. He spoke without bothering to think about anyones responses, and always went for remarks designed to inflame. In short he was a fire starter.

His comment to irish would have just been rubbished without that previous pattern of behaviour. He ignored warnings about his behaviour. Around here, the ‘left’ and ‘centrists’ usually heed behaviour warnings, so they have less bans and moderation.

This is getting tiresome. If you want to keep whinging – please do it elsewhere.]
Matthew Pilott 112

9 May 2008 at 1:32 pm

vto – do what I said and read irish’s comment, are you deliberately avoiding reading something contrary?

If you are an employer with traditionally high turnover of low-wage vulnerable workers, you hire them on endless ‘trials’ thereby voiding all of their legal workplace rights indefinitely. This solution is worse than the problem!

As I said above, the problem may be real and could do with addressing but this solution is worse than the problem. Your instances are also exceptions, as i also said, and not the rule. law generally has to cater to the rule, not exceptions. We wouldn’t have record unemployment if it was too hard to hire someone, and a majority of employers weren’t bothering!
jafapete 113

9 May 2008 at 1:34 pm

BB: “What many from the left hate to admit is that Labour relations in NZ are generally pretty good, 99% of workers are happy with their conditions and most do not see the need to belong to a union.”

I guess you qualified that so that a leftie like me couldn’t argue that yes, we do acknowledge that employment relations in NZ are generally pretty good, because many of us, in fact, do. Surveys show that NZ workers are generally more satisfied with their influence at work, etc, than are workers in the anglo-american world, with the Brits the least satisfied (as you say).

And whilst you may be strictly correct in saying that “most do not see the need to join a union”, I do hope you have not overlooked my comment yesterday at 9.31am:

Fact: research also shows that in NZ, as elsewhere, a substantial number of those in non-union workplaces say that they would like to join if they could. Around 30%. Most of the rest are indifferent, as one might expect given that (the research shows) these people tend to know little about unions. Very few think that they would be worse off with a workpace union.
Redeye 114

9 May 2008 at 1:35 pm

“AucklandPete: Sort of gives the lie to your rhetoric doesn?t it?”

I take offence at my post being called rhetoric and a lie. They are real examples given.

Which raises another point. If you are really trying induce debate how come Irish is allowed to call other posters liars but no-one is allowed to respond in kind?

[lprent: I don’t consider that to be a personal attack. If you want to prove something isn’t rhetoric, then link to something to backup your point. Whoever it was, was dissing your argument – not you.]
Matthew Pilott 115

9 May 2008 at 1:35 pm

Brett Dale, fine me an example where someone from the left said an author here was lying. Find me an example where someone from the left accused the blog of being run or funded by the Labour Party. Find me and equivalent example if you can.

Don’t you get it? It’s not saying nasty or controversial things that gets you pinged, it’s flaming and such accusations as I mentioned.
Matthew Pilott 116

9 May 2008 at 1:44 pm

vto – was just thinking about your last comment. It seems I’m at a contradiction, in that I state laws shouldn’t be made for exceptions, yet the 90 day bill isn’t alright because of the exceptions.

Bit of a conundrum, but I still stand by my views, that such a law shouldn’t be enacted if the flaws and loopholes are obvious and readily exploitable. This isn’t the case with current law – on one ‘exploits’ it, even though I readily conceed it can make things difficult in certain situations.
jafapete 117

9 May 2008 at 1:44 pm

vto,
I think we both agree that in the employment law area there needs to be some stability around an equilibrium that everybody can live with (even if they are not thrilled with every detail).

I think that we are getting closer to this point. The Nats have sworn off returning to the ECA; and the ERA, you might have noticed, is a long way from the old arbitral system that prevailed before 1991. (See the pingback link above for my views on the ERA.)

One thing that we are really arguing about is the extent of the problem of arbitrary management. You say 1-2%. Hell, the Uiversity of Auckland has been featuring in the news recently for arbitrary sackings, and there’s more I’d like to say… So I think that’s it’s a lot more than 1-2%.

Bottem line. I’d be all for a multi-party conference to see whether there is some common equlilibrium that we could all agree to. Crazy? It’s called tri-partism and it’s how they do things in Europe, for example.
vto 118

9 May 2008 at 1:44 pm

I did read Irish’s comment. Was pretty obvious, but didn;t go to the nub of the issue. But ok then, there are two problems and surely they can both be accomoodated..

Namely, problem for employer is lack of trial period.

Problem for employee is employer using endless trials to void worker rights.

I, and surely you people, can see both of the problems. I don’t deny the problem you describe.

How can the two problems be accommodated? Not quite sure, but both have to be addressed… anyone with a big brain out there? Different trial periods for different sectors perhaps?
jafapete 119

9 May 2008 at 1:51 pm

Redeye: “AucklandPete: Sort of gives the lie to your rhetoric doesn?t it?’ I take offence at my post being called rhetoric and a lie. They are real examples given.

Note the qualification “sort of”. And don’t get so worked up about an expression that doesn’t mean *precisely* what you contrue it to.

Also note that I have been called a lying filthy commie, etc, etc, numerous times on right-wing blogs, and hardly ever complained, if at all. (Can’t remember complaining, but may have.)
big bruv 120

9 May 2008 at 1:52 pm

Matthew

Once again you stretch the truth, workplace relations have improved out of sight since the end of compulsory unionism and the implementation of the employment contracts act.

Giving individual employees the right to negotiate their own contract is always going to result in happier workplace relations, those who are worth more receive it, what a pity our teachers are not allowed to do the same thing.
jafapete 121

9 May 2008 at 1:53 pm

vto: “How can the two problems be accommodated? Not quite sure, but both have to be addressed anyone with a big brain out there? Different trial periods for different sectors perhaps?”

Funnily enough, I was going to suggest soemthing along those lines. But wouldn’t claim to be a big brain.

Shame we’re not responsible for respective party policy in this area…
Matthew Pilott 122

9 May 2008 at 1:54 pm

vto:
Ensure a company could only give an employee one single trial, say within a five year period.

Specifiy a maximum number of trials to fill a role/vacancy.

Have a registration period with the trial so employers abusing or excessively using the system are noted.

Ensure specific/relevant/appropriate reasons are given for a ‘failed’ trial.

Allow for mediation in case of a failed trial.

All of these are totally against the essence of the bill National supported though, and I doubt they would get support from either side. Also note I don’t necessarily support these ideas – just thought I’d throw a few out there.
higherstandard 123

9 May 2008 at 1:56 pm

vto

How about a penalty for the employer of 4 weeks pay (payable to the employee being removed) if they sack someone after the trial period. Would be enough to put most employers off rorting the system (which very few would) conversely if the employee was cak they would also probably be happy to pay this cost to get rid off them.
Matthew Pilott 124

9 May 2008 at 1:57 pm

Note not meant to be ‘registration period’ but a ‘register system’.

Redeye, FTR I don’t think Irish called anyone a liar. he pinged someone for doing so to him…
higherstandard 125

9 May 2008 at 1:59 pm

MP

I like your first 4 points – very nice.

Have been to mediation for some staff we had to remove and agreed it is useful but very dependent on the mediator where there are very different standards in skill.
Matthew Pilott 126

9 May 2008 at 2:01 pm

bruv – Truth streching? Moi? Codswallop!

Interesting claims bruv, have you got anything to shop that the introduction of the ECA led to improved workplace relations? Would be interested in reading a study or survey that showed this.
jafapete 127

9 May 2008 at 2:04 pm

Oh, and Redeye et al., here’s an example of the sort of ordure frequently directed at lefties on the best known right-wing blog in NZ, and about which we don’t whinge. Just posted, you can see the steam rising…

I’m blowing your cover Jafaboy. The days of communists like you and the shameless bludger Phil Whoar being seen as centre left are dying, and I ask everybody out there who reads my posts to think about the need to call a commie a commie, and how it hurts them politically and personally when you do that. Don’t be intimidated by their scorn and attempts at ridicule. Truth will always (eventually) prevail, and to the commies its like a wooden stake thru the heart of a vampire. Never let them win. Remember folks- Truth is all it takes.
vto 128

9 May 2008 at 2:05 pm

ah excellent. Something along those lines…

What are we going to resolve next then?

I know.. when to knock off for the day and quench the thirst, because I aint got much done today carrying on here that’s for sure. And its almost too late to start.
Brett Dale 129

9 May 2008 at 2:06 pm

Mathew Pilott you said:

If you are an employer with traditionally high turnover of low-wage vulnerable workers, you hire them on endless â€˜trials’ thereby voiding all of their legal workplace rights indefinitely. This solution is worse than the problem!

the law will be for one trial, when a person is first hired. the will be no option for endless trials.

Who do you fly for? dimes brother is ex air nelson and currently air New zealand.
jafapete 130

9 May 2008 at 2:08 pm

vto, agreed. Galbraiths at 5pm anyone?
Matthew Pilott 131

9 May 2008 at 2:09 pm

HS, thanks, I can only imagine that is true with the mediator.

There’s always the ‘stick’ approach, but I don’t like it. Have a fee – or maybe a bond is a better term – for a trial (amount of which is dependant on the size of the organisation) that is returned if the trial is successful.

This would encourage employers to only use a trial when necessary, and would mean a decision to employ or not would have to be carefully weighted, but it is unfair in that it penalises employers for getting a dud. Can’t think of a workaround off the top of my head.

Not sure where the bond money would go either – clearly not to the worker, or it would encourage people to fail!
big bruv 132

9 May 2008 at 2:12 pm

Jafa

“vto, agreed. Galbraiths at 5pm anyone?”

Only if you promise that Robinsod will be there
higherstandard 133

9 May 2008 at 2:14 pm

MP

Agreed.

There’s a solution in there somewhere – although I’d like to believe that the majority of employers and employees won’t/don’t have these issues to face.
Matthew Pilott 134

9 May 2008 at 2:14 pm

Brett – wasn’t aware that was in the law – I didn’t think there was a mechanism to prevent it. I.e. you have one trial and it ‘fails’, so you get the same person back for another one. Exploitation of the vulnerable does occur…

I’m no pilot – I almost crashed a place once actually (it was on the ground).

vto – how about whether we keep public control over certain assets…but maybe save it for another day…
Billy 135

9 May 2008 at 2:18 pm

I think Brett’s right, Matthew Pilott. You could not employ the same worker on more thatn one trial.

The potential for abuse is that an employer could employ a series of employees on such trials. But I am just not sure why you’d do that if the employee worked out.
Matthew Pilott 136

9 May 2008 at 2:24 pm

Billy – if it’s for an unskilled job (where it would be hard for it to not work out) you could save a lot in terms of workplace rights – paid leave and so on, that don’t apply in a trial. There is potantial for anti-union and bad-faith activity as well that can’t be discounted. The effects of these need to be fully investigated before going in with the law.
jafapete 137

9 May 2008 at 2:26 pm

Billy, In the UK employers have been known to re-employ the people that they terminate just before the 12 months are up, after a short break. As noted above, the primary reason for doing this is to avoid legal obligations.

They tend to do this because they are running businesses based on price competition, employing low paid, low skill workers whose cooperation is not needed beyond a minimal level of compliance, and because they (the employers) are callous bastards. Think cleaning contractors for a concrete example.

Implicit in what vto suggested earlier is the fact that the problems tend to be concentrated in certain areas. Mass services is the primary area, but there are others such as freight forwarding and universities with [self-censored].
Jason 138

9 May 2008 at 2:42 pm

Getting back to the topic, a trial period is exactly what is needed in at least my profession, farming.

The people against this can not actually put forward any evidence to back up claims that this bill would be abused and that the net effect would be drastically poor on employees.

I am now not employing because of this. Within a 10km radius of me I know of at least 3 other farms who are also not employing as it is not worth the risk to have to spend a whole year with someone who may not prove sutible.

Give us a trial and there would be at least 4 people employed on June 1. As it is, we just arent employing, we will do the extra work ourselves.
Redeye 139

9 May 2008 at 2:50 pm

Mathew can I refer you back to the 4th post of this thread where the Irish bloke says;

“Maw, do you ever make a statement that is based in fact?” If that’s not calling him a liar then you ought to open both eyes.

Never the less, I find it amusing to now be lumped in with the right because I disgagree on this issue. Most other sites I post on lump me in with the lefties.

Politics is not Rugby. You are allowed to look at the issues individually and see the rights and WRONGS of both sides without being some sort of traitor.
big bruv 140

9 May 2008 at 2:53 pm

Billy,

Jafa is right, I worked for a company in the UK that was well known for hiring sales staff for the summer months and giving them the flick as winter set in (I refused to comply with this instruction)

It is simplistic and quite simply wrong to lay the blame for this mentality entirely at the feet of the employers, as I said both sides do not often disappoint each other.

Most of the animosity between workers and management in the UK is the result of union agitation, the staff are brainwashed into believing that all managers are callous bastards and the management are of the opinion that all workers are unionist stirrers.

I well remember telling the owner of the company that I worked for that I was going to shout a few beers and fire up the BBQ every Friday for the staff, the first question he asked me was “how much that was going to cost” the second was “why would you do that?”
Anyway, for the first month I sat there on my own every Friday night, it took about seven months until we had a total buy in from the staff and they began to realise that I was not out to screw them, they also found out that they had a boss that genuinely cared about them.

The end result was that productivity improved out of sight and workplace relations at our branch were the best in the company, we did not lay anybody off come winter and the practice of drinks and a BBQ on Friday still continues to this day.

In many ways that is what happened in NZ with the end of compulsory unionism, workers and staff found out that they were not each others natural enemy and by working together they could both achieve their goals, as one of the chaps who worked with me in the UK said one day he found it much more fun coming to work when he knew that the place was no longer a hot bed of animosity.
Matthew Pilott 141

9 May 2008 at 2:53 pm

Jason, there are a fair few examples on this thread as to how the law could be abused, and jafapete gave a definite example just above.

As I said previously, you’re happy to see a law that could easily lead to exploitation of vulnerable workers enacted for your own benefit? And all this to help you with work that you actually can do yourself? And you are not able to have fixed term contacts (why not make it a three month contract, and then offer them a permanent job if you get along with them??) or any other method of employment at all, given that you’re absorbing the work of four people?
Billy 142

9 May 2008 at 2:56 pm

Matthew, you can’t have a fixed term contract and use it as a trial. The law doesn’t allow you to.
lprent 143

9 May 2008 at 2:57 pm

Jason: “Getting back to the topic”

Topics tend to veer and weave a lot around here. You get used to it eventually. Especially, when they get as many comments as this post has. I should start thinking about a threading system at the client side.

Looking at the comment streams, there does actually appear to almost be an agreement about ideas on this topic emerging. It’d make a first…
Matthew Pilott 144

9 May 2008 at 3:00 pm

redeye – he looks to have been talking about opinion, as opposed to fact. It’s a far cry from accusing someone of making things up to justify a position.

I haven’t ‘lumped you in with the right’, and didn’t think anyone else had either but I may have missed something.

“You are allowed to look at the issues individually and see the rights and WRONGS of both sides without being some sort of traitor”

As you may notice, much of the latter part of this thread has been doing exactly that.
jafapete 145

9 May 2008 at 3:09 pm

Redeye: “Maw, do you ever make a statement that is based in fact?’ If that’s not calling him a liar then you ought to open both eyes.

Based on speculation? Based on sincerely held but misguided prejudice?

I think I know who needs to open his/her eyes, and at least one of them is red.
Jason 146

9 May 2008 at 3:12 pm

I’m not allowed to offer a fixed term contract, tell the employee to leave then re-employ someone new to do the same job. That is illegial.

As for the comment about being able to do the job myself, its not possible, there are trade-offs. The farm doesnt run as smoothly as it should, most days I will barely see my children, come spring I will do about 12-14 weeks nonstop, working on average 13 hours per day. That has an effect on my health and the general happiness of my family.

As for the comment regarding vunerable workers needing protection. Well, I have worked bloody hard for a very long time, took on the risk of starting my own business, put my balls on the line with a big mortgage, it would be nice if there was a law that could give me some scope to be sure I can employ the best people for the job.

Certainly, I have earned that right.

However, we, like many other farmers, have decided we are better off to do this then to put up with the risk of employing someone who is not sutible and then having to be stuck with them for the entire contract, then having to try and find someone else to fill a new job role as we were not able to finish a fixed term contract and employ someone new.

Go and ask a real estate agent why most dairy farmers end up selling thier farms. Staffing issues.
jafapete 147

9 May 2008 at 3:24 pm

BB, I thought you were doing really well until you got to the bit about the ECA. Sorry to be so didactic, but…

1. Unions had a very limited presence in most NZ workplaces prior to the ECA, because that was the nature of the old system (i.e., centralised, bureaucratic). In particular, they had very little presence in smaller workplaces, and that is where deunionisation was greatest after the introduction of the ECA.

2. The ECA was enabling legislation; it did nothing positive to improve workplace relations. Ypour argument is based on a belief that union membership was a barrier to better workplace relations.

3. However, almost all of the drop in union membership over the first 18 months of the ECA was in the mass private sector services, which, you may have noticed from the discussion above, is where the problems have been, continue to be, and probably always will be. Think little shops, restaurants, cafes, service stations, cleaning contractors, rest homes…

4. There is no evidence that workplace relations improved in these mass services workplaces. In fact, we do know that the workers in these workplaces tend to be the ones who would like to join a union but can’t. This suggests that where unionism declined fastest, and to the greatest extent, bad workplace relations persist. There goes your argument!

You need a more nuanced argument, distinguishing between the types of employemnt relations that pertain in different industries, for example. Also, you need to recognise that the unions of today bear little resemblance in most cases to those of twenty years ago.

Now, I don’t want ever again to read about the wonderful ECA promoting good workplace relations.
Matthew Pilott 148

9 May 2008 at 3:26 pm

Billy, Jason – I understood that people did this – hire people on fixed term contracts, but if they like the employee they choose to hire them on a permanent basis, or at least substantially extend their contract. If not, they try with another worker, on a fixed-term basis. I might be wrong about this or confusing it with the use of Temp workers though.

Jason – are workers that bad in the farming sector? It sounds as if there is such a slim chance of getting a decent worker you don’t bother.

At the end of the day, you’re still advocating a law that will have far wider consequences than in the agricultural sector, and seem to be dismissing this out of hand. While it may be a good thing in your area, it won’t just apply to farming.
mondograss 149

9 May 2008 at 3:31 pm

I think it needs to be observed that it’s still a contract based system, therefore what you put in the contract, as long as it’s not completely arbitrary, is enforceable. The farmer guy who complained about staff leaving with 1 weeks notice, could change the contract to have 4 weeks notice. Other skill specific stuff such as ability to build a fence to blah specification, or having a professional demeanour can also be inserted. You just have to make sure that you go through the contract carefully with the prospective employee at the hiring stage.

Then of course you can still have a 90 day trial and if they’ve not met the conditions of the contract and it can be reasonably said that they’re not able to, the relationship can be terminated. But BOTH sides have to make an effort to resolve any issues that come up and good, fair process must still be followed.

Not much you can do if you simply don’t like the person, but heck I’ve hated bosses plenty in the past, been pretty sure they felt the same way about me, and still been able to work with them. Of course I didn’t have to live with them though.
Billy 150

9 May 2008 at 3:36 pm

Matthew Pilott, you used to be able to do it under the ECA, but the ERA contains specific provisions to stop you doing this. You have to have a genuine reason for the fixed term (and, I want to see if you are a good employee doesn’t count) and, once it has expired, you still have to go through the process as if you were sacking them. Very deliberately, this means that there is no benefit to the employer in having the fixed term at all. If you could, no-one would be asking for the 90 day trial thing.
Matthew Pilott 151

9 May 2008 at 3:41 pm

Billy – maybe I’m thinking of a situation involving temps then – because I’m sure this does happen, but having a temping agency in the middle may muddy the waters enough to allow for some form of this to happen. No use in this case, of course.
jafapete 152

9 May 2008 at 3:44 pm

Billy, Yeah, but these provisions are more honoured in the breach…

Not that I am condoning this behaviour, mind.
mondograss 153

9 May 2008 at 3:46 pm

Could use a labour hire company I guess, might be some out there that do agricultural workers and would be amenable to having someone hired permanently off their books. IT contracting can work like that, you hire a contractor through an agency, if they’re good you offer them a permanent role, and a portion of their salary goes to the agency for a fixed period. If they’re no good, you send them back to the agency and ask for someone else.
big bruv 154

9 May 2008 at 3:48 pm

Jafa

You may not want to read about the good things that came out of the ECA but that would be tantamount to sticking your head in the sand.

The ECA means that I could always negotiate my own deal with any prospective employer, I am not bound by some silly union agreed contract that dictates what or how much I can earn, it also means that any workplace can negotiate directly with their employer, if employees are not happy with the deal they have then they always have the right to walk out and find a more generous employer.

[lprent: Huh? I don’t usually note on content errors, but… You can do the same thing under ERA. Don’t join a union and make your own contract with the employer.]

All I and others are arguing is that the employer should have the right to make the same choice within a 90 day period
jafapete 155

9 May 2008 at 4:12 pm

BB: “The ECA means that I could always negotiate my own deal with any prospective employer, I am not bound by some silly union agreed contract that dictates what or how much I can earn, it also means that any workplace can negotiate directly with their employer, if employees are not happy with the deal they have then they always have the right to walk out and find a more generous employer.”

1. Under the old award system, “awards” were minimum terms contracts, and it was usually possible for workers to negotiate better terms and conditions, and very large numbers of them did.

2. You can still do this under the ERA.

3. Very few “workpaces” negotiated directly with their employers, or used bargaining agents other than unions. Unions still did the vast majority of collective bargaining, even after 9 years of the ECA. Why do you think that was, if the alternatives were freely available?

4. A survey that was done a few years ago showed that it is still very much the case that “if employees are not happy with the deal they have then they always have the right to walk out and find a more generous employer” and do. A little known fact is that turnover was very high in NZ historically, and continues to be today, largely because this is a preferred means of dealing with an unsatisfactory employment situation in this country.

As always, references available on request. Also, enough for one day. I will be off to Galbraiths in an hour or so, and have no idea at all where robinsod is, so cannot hope to produce him, for whatever reason.
jafapete 156

9 May 2008 at 4:17 pm

Postscript, you will have noted from earlier posts that my main problem with the ECA is that the most vulnerable workers suffered the most, even before it came into effect in May 1991 (some employers couldn’t wait). You could add a few other things, such as the long-term macro-economic results of embarking on a low pay, low productivity path.

I don’t think the benefits that the ECA might have brought were worth the pain and I do think that there were much better ways to go about providing more flexibility in our labour market. finis
leftie 157

9 May 2008 at 9:37 pm

Whoa…155 posts. It seems that Employment Relations is a hot topic this close to the election. I cant be the only worker who has bad memories of last time National was government.

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Activists are such easy scapegoats. The right and center have been conditioned for decades to roll their eyes at all protests. The left are easily aggravated over students leading movements they see as belonging to grownups, who have more important concerns like the economy and whether the trains come on ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Sapphi

6 hours ago
Cutting Through An Inundation of Dipshit Racists

Hi,Watching New Zealand from afar offers a strange perspective. It can be a good thing — distance from Aotearoa helped keep me sane while I reported on abuse at New Zealand’s biggest megachurch over the course of a year. It helps fuel my silly podcast. But it can also be ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

7 hours ago
This is bad news

The speech yesterday by Treasury’s Chief Economic Advisor warning that the books are in worse shape than forecasted looks like it’s part of a softening-up process for either more cuts or a longer wait to get back into surplus. The speech was a highly unusual public preview of Treasury’s Half-Yearly ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

9 hours ago
Skeptical Science New Research for Week #47 2024

Open access notables Projected increase in the frequency of extremely active Atlantic hurricane seasons, Lopez et al., Science Advances: Future changes to the year-to-year swings between active and inactive North Atlantic tropical cyclone (TC) seasons have received little attention, yet may have great societal implications in areas prone to hurricane ...

Skeptical Science

18 hours ago
Chicken Kiev

Chatting in the supermarket this morning, I found I needed to lunge for the chicken drumsticks.Coping mechanisms: who hasn’t felt a greater need for them lately?When it all gets too much, I turn to demonstrating handy butchery hacks.It wasn’t that she’d said anything wrong, our friend, not at all. We ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

21 hours ago
The year is 2024 and it’s 1984

This is written in response to the highly significant open letter from a group of economists that was today addressed to Christopher Luxon. The year is 2024, and it’s 1984. The country is reeling from a record Olympic medal gold haul, while the globe grapples with the choice of the ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Sapphi

22 hours ago
The IPCA has failed

Back in 2022, RNZ took an in-depth look at the "Independent" Police Conduct Authority and its handling of killings by police. These are the most serious test of oversight, and you would expect the police's use of lethal force to receive the most severe scrutiny. But despite the police regularly ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

1 day ago
Thursday 21 November 2024

The Hīkoi mō Te Tiriti arrived at Parliament on Tuesday – the size is being debated but estimates range from 42,000 to 100,000. The Prime Minister is defending not attending due to some of the organisers being affiliated with Te Pāti Māori. The national gang patch ban came into force ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

1 day ago
‘These budget cuts are counter-productive and make no sense’

I spoke to former Productivity Chair Nana this morning about the letter he and a group of other economists sent to PM Christopher Luxon to urge the Government to urgently suspend cuts to spending and investment for the sake of the economy, struggling businesses and the wellbeing of vulnerable ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 day ago
ACT’s Astroturfing & A Co-ordinated Attack on Te Pati Māori

Unity on the Streets / Unity at the TableAfter the Hīkoi, all three right wing Coalition leaders came together to push the idea that the 42,000 - 50,000 + strong Hikoi was somehow less potent and brave, and more illegitimate than the energy and crowd displayed.Prime Minister Christopher Luxon 20-November: ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

1 day ago
Durability of carbon dioxide removal is critical for stabilizing temperatures

This is a re-post from the Climate Brink The world is emitting over 40 gigatons of CO2 per year, contributing to an accelerating warming of the planet. The world needs to cut emissions rapidly to be remotely on track to meet our Paris Agreement goals of limiting warming to well-below 2C, and we ...

Skeptical Science

1 day ago
I Love My Leather Jacket

I wear my leather jacket like a great big hugRadiating charm - a living cloak of luckIt's the only concrete link with an absent friendIt's a symbol I can wear 'till we meet againOr it's a weight around my neck while the owner's freeBoth protector and reminder of mortalityIt's a ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

1 day ago
Throwback Thursday: Will “Auckland Transport” Survive?

With Auckland Transport’s future up in the air under Mayor Wayne Brown’s proposed CCO reform, we’ve dug way back into the archives, to unearth this post originally published in March 2010. As you’ll see, many of the debates that were being had when AT was first proposed continue to ...

Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland

1 day ago
Economists call on PM to suspend budget cuts for the sake of the economy

Nicola Willis’ budget cuts are under fire from economists for having no clear rationale and worsening the recession. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Thursday, November 21: The news at ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 day ago
The end of policing by consent

National has appointed a new police commissioner. And he explicitly rejects policing by consent: Asked if he subscribed to policing by consent, he said he did not. “I don’t talk about policing by consent. I talk about trust and confidence, and it is fundamentally important that the police have ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

2 days ago
The Treaty Principles Bill: A Who’s Who

David Horatio Waterbed SeymourFringe politician and dweeb transformed successfully by ThinkTank money into a well-oiled soundbite robot.Currently programmed to say: Equal rights for all New Zealanders Equal rights for all New Zealanders Equal rights for all New Zealanders Was previously programmed to say:I am a proud libertarian andI am a ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

2 days ago
Kinleith mill closure shows need for industrial strategy

NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi President Richard Wagstaff is calling on the Government to deliver an economic and industrial strategy for regional manufacturing, rather than just expressing sympathy for job losses, following the announced closure of Kinleith mill in Tokoroa. “The closure Kinleith mill in Tokoroa is not just devastating for ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

2 days ago
27% of kids going hungry, up from 21% in a year

One in four Kiwi children live in households where food runs out often or sometimes. Photo: Getty ImagesKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Wednesday, November 20: The lead: The official annual Health Survey found sharp ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

2 days ago
Transport modelling is an illusion

This guest post by Tim Adriaansen, an advocate for accessibility and sustainable transport, originally published on LinkedIn and cross posted here with permission. People prefer cars, right? Probably not. Here’s why. Granted, most people in English-speaking countries use a car to get around. This simple reality underpins our transport ...

Greater AucklandBy Guest Post

2 days ago
Young Maori take over

Neither Wellington nor Parliament has ever seen anything like it before. The Police said there were more than 40,000 but however many there were, yesterday’s Hikoi to Parliament was a monumental event. It was almost three times the Foreshore and Seabed martch of 2004 and many,many times bigger than ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

2 days ago
Gordon Campbell On The Hikoi Aftermath

The euphoria from yesterday’s hikoi may be transitory, but is no less valuable for that. It is pretty rare for the left to feel itself to be in the overwhelming majority, and speaking as the voice of the people. Lest that momentum be lost, the organisers will no doubt be ...

WerewolfBy ScoopEditor

3 days ago
Sabin 33 #3 – Solar panels generate too much waste and will overwhelm landfills

On November 1, 2024 we announced the publication of 33 rebuttals based on the report "Rebutting 33 False Claims About Solar, Wind, and Electric Vehicles" written by Matthew Eisenson, Jacob Elkin, Andy Fitch, Matthew Ard, Kaya Sittinger & Samuel Lavine and published by the Sabin Center for Climate Change Law at Columbia ...

Skeptical Science

3 days ago
What’s the time Mr Seymour?

Mr David Seymour crawling up to the ceilingThe sun don't shine the sun don't shine the sun don't shine at allMamma Pappa say you should go to school, I don't know what forNow that I've grown up and seen the world and all its liesSong: Southside of Bombay"Ake, ake, ake" ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

3 days ago
Submit to defend te Tiriti!

The Justice Committee has called for submissions on National's racist and constitutionally radical Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill. Submissions can be made at the link above or by post, and are due by Tuesday, 7 January 2025. But I'd get in quick, in case National grows a spine ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

3 days ago
We need to talk about Kevin

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family has a Drunk Uncle Kevin in there somewhere. If your Kevin is anything like the ones I know, he was getting along happily enough without having to think too much about the Treaty Principles Bill apart from bloody good job, onya guys ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

3 days ago
The hikoi

Like everyone else (everyone who wasn't there, anyway), I've spent the morning watching the hikoi march on Parliament. The pictures are astounding: parliament grounds and the surrounding streets are full, and there are still people backed up along Lambton Quay. The police are estimating 35,000 people, and that's a floor ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

3 days ago
Why Govt & NZ Inc should boycott & regulate Facebook

The CEOs of Westpac NZ and Kiwibank say Facebook is rife with fraud but reporting scam ads gets no response. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Tuesday, November 19: The ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

3 days ago
How should we talk about change?

A better world isn’t just possible, it’s desirable. And that’s how we should frame a lot of our conversations around making a greater Auckland. As an example take urban climate action. A climate friendly Auckland: Is free from congestion Enables people to travel how they choose Is filled with ...

Greater AucklandBy Connor Sharp

3 days ago
AMA + Holiday Webworm Merch!

Hi,It’s AMA time again — so anything that’s on your mind that you wanna ask, ask away in the comments. This is one of my favourite things to do with full Webworm members, who are the heart of this community of Worms. Journalism? Documentary making? Short Poppies? Cats? Podcasting? What ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

3 days ago
Discount Code for Webworm Merch!

Hi,So there’s a bunch of new stuff on the Webworm store (www.webworm.store) — just in time for the Holidays. Read more ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

3 days ago
Trying to defuse the tension

There were urgent moves yesterday at Parliament to try and defuse the tension building up over ACT’s Treaty Principles Bill. The Bill’s author, ACT leader David Seymour, told reporters that he understood the Justice Select Committee met yesterday to discuss how long it should take to consider submissions on the ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

3 days ago
An Irritable NZ Pawn – David Seymour Admits Treaty Principles Bill will clear the way for deve...

This morning I discovered a post I’d written 10-11 months ago, lamenting how New Zealand’s ACT Party and their foreign and local surrogates would play out anti-Māori propaganda - which I believe they have long prepared for.At the time, it was a plea for action and readiness from my fellow ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

4 days ago
Gordon Campbell On The Hikoi Arrival, And Tyler Childers

Politicians like to bang on all about the need to heal society’s racial/economic divisions, but in their actions they’re more keen on stoking those divisions, with the Treaty Principles Bill being the classic example. The Bill seeks to dilute the Crown’s responsibilities to Māori at the same time as it ...

WerewolfBy ScoopEditor

4 days ago
Socially Backwards and Fiscally Forwards: the False Ideological Divide and the “Conservative” Li...

Nearly two weeks on from the US election, and we are still mentally wrangling with the results. How did this happen? Which voter demographics went where? What did the Democrats do wrong? Meanwhile here in New Zealand, we’re left wondering how this will apply to us and what this means ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Sapphi

4 days ago
Kaamos: Accepted

I appreciate that A Phuulish Fellow has been fairly quiet recently. That’s a combination of two things – comparatively little in the way of relevant material to discuss (at least until The War of the Rohirrim comes out next month), and my general work on The Secret Non-Fiction Writing Project. ...

A Phuulish FellowBy strda221

4 days ago
Here’s how governments could fix their Paris climate commitment failures

This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Governments around the world face a conundrum. Virtually none are on track to meet their Paris climate commitments. That includes the United States, which committed to cut its emissions at least 50% below 2005 levels by 2030 but is only on track for 32-43% cuts ...

Skeptical Science

4 days ago
Unstoppable.

Too Big To Fail: Forty-three years after the 1981 Springbok Tour protests, Maori defenders of te Tiriti, by their own efforts, and using their own resources, are poised to descend on the capital with upwards of 100,000 followers at their back, and no force in front of them even remotely ...

Bowalley Road

4 days ago
Katherine Trebeck – An Alternative Economic Narrative

The era of neoliberalism has been destructive on so many levels, with a huge growth in wealth and privilege for the one percent. A hollowing out of the state; fraying of the safety net; inadequate government investment in infrastructure; and continued environmental degradation has resulted in damage on a vast ...

Fabians

4 days ago
In a Manner of Speaking

In a manner of speakingI just want to sayThat I could never forget the wayYou told me everythingBy saying nothingOh, give me the wordsGive me the wordsThat tell me nothingOh, give me the wordsGive me the wordsThat tell me everythingSongwriter: Winston TongNext Tuesday, the subscription price for Nick’s Kōrero will ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

4 days ago
Monday 18 November 2024

The NZNO have announced a nationwide strike for December over its pay dispute with Health NZ, who have put a 1 per cent cap on pay rises. The Hīkoi mō Te Tiriti and Treaty Principles Bill remain front and centre in the media, with the impacts of the Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke-led ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

4 days ago
Shipley warns Seymour’s bill is ‘inviting civil war’

The divisive Treaty Principles Bill is not just a risk for the National Party, it’s a risk to civil order and unity, warns a National Party grandee. Photo: Getty ImagesKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

4 days ago
A clearer network for the City Rail Link?

This post was originally published on Linked In by Nicolas Reid. It is republished here with permission. Auckland is now just a year or so away from having the keystone of its urban rail network complete. As I wrote about here, the City Rail Link will be a literal game changer for ...

Greater AucklandBy Guest Post

4 days ago
National’s support base is wobbling

If ACT leader David Seymour intended the Treaty Principles Bill to drive a wedge into National’s support base, he may well already be succeeding. By midnight on Thursday after the Maori Party haka in Parliament, National MPs were being deluged with emails and messages from their members calling them out ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

4 days ago
2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #46

A listing of 33 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, November 10, 2024 thru Sat, November 16, 2024. Story of the week Our Story of the Week is completely "meta" (no, not that Meta). It's about our exploring how ...

Skeptical Science

5 days ago
Grifter Eftpos Tamaki at it again

..Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.Self-appointed “Bishop” and proto-fascist, Brian Tamaki was at it again on 16 November, blocking Auckland’s southern motorway, SH1.This time, the target of his ire wasn’t the Civil Unions Act; covid lock-downs; mask mandates; or ...

Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy

5 days ago
Rip up a bill, lead a haka are words to live by

I cannot stop grabbing people by the lapels, or shoulders, or similar, and raving at them about the tiny miracles in my ears.I can hear again! There could not be a more satisfied customer in all the world.In a noisy cafe I am even catching words that Karren cannot, she ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

5 days ago
Unintended Consequences

Take the baitYou pay the priceIt's much too lateFor good adviceYou know and I know that our good things' throughBecause there's consequences for what we doConsequences for me and youWriters: Kevin Robert Hayes, David Nagier, Bonnie Adele Hayes.Fallout from the first readingOne News began last night by saying that tens ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

6 days ago
Thank you, driver!

Today, Saturday 16th of November, is Auckland Transport’s Bus Driver Appreciation Day! Saturday 16 November marks the third annual Auckland Transport (AT) ‘Bus Driver Appreciation Day’, and this year we are encouraging all of New Zealand to thank their driver or let the bus go first if you are in ...

Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland

6 days ago
Totally Normal: Holiday Edition

Hi,If I was to accurately sum up my mental state over the week, I’d just say that I got a huge fright from my own shadow.I’d nipped out for an 11pm neighborhood stroll, just to calm down after a day of stress and screens. The Cure and Fazerdaze’s new record ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

6 days ago
We Are Not Listening

The current rise of populism challenges the way we think about people’s relationship to the economy.We seem to be entering an era of populism, in which leadership in a democracy is based on preferences of the population which do not seem entirely rational nor serving their longer interests. ...

PunditBy Brian Easton

7 days ago
More lawlessness from National

On Tuesday, sick of government stonewalling, the Waitangi Tribunal issued a rare court order, ordering the Minister of Health to release unredacted documents within 48 hours showing its reasoning for disestablishing Te Aka Whai Ora, the Māori Health Authority. The government's response to the lawful order of a court? Yeah, ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

7 days ago
National’s tyrannical “foreign interference” law

Yesterday, under cover the the biggest political fight of the year, National quietly - covertly, even - introduced anti-foreign interference legislation. The bill is the product of a years-long work-program aimed at countering shit like this and this, and there's unquestionably a need to do something to counter foreign states' ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

7 days ago
The Haka Represents The Best Of Us

A few months ago, I was in an audience watching a Haka-Kapa and as I watched children dance and sing and sway and shout and beat, I couldn’t help but think “The Haka represents the best of us.”Yes, yes - there will be a thousand voices that rush forth to ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

1 week ago
Adding up the climate cost

St Mary’s Bay housing left hanging: Climate risk is systemically underestimated in the climate scenarios used by central banks, and a new report warns 10,000 houses are set to become uninsurable in Aotearoa. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, here’s the top six news items of note in ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago
Auckland chafing at Bishop’s housing intensification orders

One of the major problems the Government has in implementing its ‘going for housing growth’ strategy is that it isn’t giving much funding help to councils. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago
Friday 15 November 2024

The Treaty Principles Bill continues to dominate political news, with it passing its first reading in the House. Parliament was briefly suspended and Te Pāti Māori MP Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke suspended for 24 hours after leading a haka that was joined by opposition MPs and the public in the gallery. Willie ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

1 week ago
Weekly Roundup 15-November-2024

Happy Friday, welcome to another round-up of interesting stories about what’s happening in Auckland and other cities. Feel free to add your links in the comments! This post, like all our work, is brought to you by a largely volunteer crew and made possible by generous donations from our readers ...

Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland

1 week ago
Are We The Waiting?

And screamingAre we we are, are we we are the waitingAnd screamingAre we we are, are we we are the waitingForget me nots, second thoughts live in isolationHeads or tails and fairy tales in my mindAre we we are, are we we are the waiting unknownThe rage and love, the ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

1 week ago
The Hoon around the week to November 15

The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts & talking about the week’s news with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent on the latest climate news, including from COP29 this week; on the US Presidential elections, Israel vs Gaza/Iran/Lebanon, Ukraine/Nato vs Russia/North ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago
First Tea and Toast, now Milo — why do NZ’s best beverages need so much defending?

Only two months ago, Nicola Willis had to step in to stop Health New Zealand cutting tea and toast for post-birth parents, and now Lester Levy is riding to the rescue with a welcome message for all: our health workers can once again drink Milo, and will no longer need ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Sapphi

1 week ago
Gordon Campbell on the folly of making apologies in a social vacuum.

Day One of the Treaty Principles Bill…and everyone got what they wanted, and did what they liked. Heated words were exchanged. Culturally appropriate acts of outrage were performed. David Seymour got to play the victim card. Willie Jackson got kicked out of class. A comically red-faced Mr Speaker bellowed “Order, ...

WerewolfBy ScoopEditor

1 week ago
Skeptical Science New Research for Week #46 2024

Open access notables Microbial solutions must be deployed against climate catastrophe, Peixoto et al., Nature Communications [comment]: The climate crisis is escalating. A multitude of microbe-based solutions have been proposed, and these technologies hold great promise and could be deployed along with other climate mitigation strategies. However, these solutions have ...

Skeptical Science

1 week ago
The PM gets some extremely valuable legal advice for free

You can pay a great deal of money for the services of a KC. So just what would some peerless legal writing from 40 or so of them be worth, do you reckon?Priceless, that’s what. It’s not even the half of it, but this is my favourite part of the ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

1 week ago
D-day for the government

The government's Treaty Principles Bill is up for its first reading today - bought forward in a rush in a desperate effort to avoid the hikoi which is currently marching on Wellington. But the Prime Minister won’t be there for it – he’s literally running away to Peru! But he ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

1 week ago
97% of submissions did not want no-cause evictions, Trump chooses a Russian spy for US Intelligence ...

Good morning, and I’m sorry I’ve been away for a couple of days.I’ve been focusing on the Hikoi, and also testing out sentiment on the Treaty Principles Bill. It’s complicated, and the Treaty Principles Bill will be debated in the House today. The Government’s own lawyers have told them the ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

1 week ago
Government must vote down ACT Members Bill that would undermine workers’ rights

NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi President Richard Wagstaff is calling on the Government to vote down an ACT Party Members Bill that would undermine workers’ rights by making it easier for employers to fire workers. Last week ACT MP Laura Trask’s Employment Relations (Termination of Employment by Agreement) Amendment Bill was ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

1 week ago
Seymour causes thousands of unjustified absences by forcing kids to fight for their rights instead o...

The State would like to remind you that they are in control. They manage your employment prospects, and can destroy the job market you and yours rely on by mass-cancelling construction projects, cutting funding, and firing a good chunk of our public servants. They wield the mechanisms that provide scrutiny ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Sapphi

1 week ago
The Weight of the World

As the weight of the world Hangs on your shoulders The weight of the world Starts to take over again And over again All that you once loved, now you hate So slowly relearn how to meditate To have and to hold And never let go Can you feel it ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

1 week ago
Thursday 14 November 2024

The Treaty Principles Bill is set to have its First Reading in the House today, as the Hīkoi mō Te Tiriti continues. More than 40 KCs have written to the Prime Minister and Attorney-General outlining their “grave concerns” about the substance of the Treaty Principles Bill, while an academic and ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

1 week ago
Trump’s return to White House brings the climate’s ‘find out’ phase closer

As we absorb the news of Trump's victory in the US Presidential election, here’s a wrap compiled just before the result of what it might mean for climate action: The UN Secretary General says the prospective departure of the United States would cripple the Paris Agreement, likening it to the ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago
Time and Space in the City Centre

Patrick Reynolds is deputy chair of the City Centre Advisory Panel. The header image is from Walthamstow, London The city centre now has a few stretches of street where the space has been repurposed to a people and place focused design from full time traffic use. These are a great ...

Greater AucklandBy Patrick Reynolds

1 week ago
An opportunity for a pro-growth tax switch

As the Hikoi against it swells into the tens of thousands, KCs call on National to kill off ACT’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. Photo: Getty ImagesKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Thursday, November 14: The ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago

Release: Government should be transparent on live exports

Targeted consultation on reinstating live cattle exports by sea won’t allow the New Zealand public to have their say. ...

Labour Blog

5 hours ago
NZ’s global climate rankings plummet as Govt removes agriculture from ETS

The Government has passed legislation to remove agriculture from the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) while Aotearoa’s reputation on climate action plummets. ...

Greens

20 hours ago
Failed boot camp experiment must end

As legislation to set up boot camps passed its first reading, the Green Party urged the Government to abandon this failed policy experiment for the good of our rangatahi. ...

Greens

21 hours ago
Gender-affirming care must centre evidence and health needs, not political posturing

The Ministry of Health has today released an evidence brief regarding the use of puberty blockers in gender-affirming healthcare, amid moves by the government to limit access. ...

Greens

21 hours ago
Release: National doesn’t care about manufacturing

The National Government is walking away from our manufacturing sector with constant reports of closures and job losses. ...

Labour Blog

23 hours ago
Release: David Parker speech – Piketty, Inequality and Climate Change

David Parker's speech from the University of Auckland's forum on Piketty, Inequality and Climate Change in September 2024. ...

Labour Blog

23 hours ago
Release: Youth mental wellbeing no longer a priority for Child Poverty Minister

Louise Upston has revealed her diminished vision for vulnerable youth against a backdrop of snubbed advice, scrapped priorities, shifted goal posts and thousands more children projected to fall into poverty. ...

Labour Blog

1 day ago
Release: National’s lack of climate action taking NZ backwards

National Government’s backward-looking climate policy has seen New Zealand fall seven places on the Climate Change Performance Index to 41 out of 63 countries measured. ...

Labour Blog

1 day ago
Release: Simple reason for drop in emergency housing

When the Government says it has reduced the number of people in emergency housing, what it means is it is stopping people from accessing it in the first place. ...

Labour Blog

1 day ago
Govt’s child wellbeing strategy ‘shallow and shameful’

The Government is turning its back on children by not only weakening child poverty reduction targets, but also removing child mental wellbeing as a priority focus in their Child and Youth Wellbeing Strategy. ...

Greens

1 day ago
Release: A historic win for Samoan communities

Labour warmly welcomes the Restoring Samoan Citizenship Bill as it passes its third reading, before becoming law. ...

Labour Blog

1 day ago
Government plan to reinstate live animal exports a “national disgrace”

The Government has taken a giant step backwards by reinstating live animal exports. ...

Greens

2 days ago
Pasifika justice as Member’s Bill passes final reading

Teanau Tuiono’s Member’s Bill, the Citizenship (Western Samoa Restoration) Amendment Bill, has passed its third reading and will become law. ...

Greens

2 days ago
Release: Minister of Education thinks New Zealand ends at the Bombay Hills

The Minister of Education has shown complete disregard for rural communities and their school bus routes in Question Time today. ...

Labour Blog

2 days ago
Economists sound alarm on Government’s slash-and-burn approach

A group of prominent economists has released an open letter to the Government, raising grave concerns about the far-reaching consequences of its fiscal policy. ...

Greens

2 days ago
Release: Smoking numbers up under Costello’s watch

National’s repeal of Labour’s smokefree legislation has taken New Zealand further away from achieving a Smokefree 2025 and a smokefree generation. ...

Labour Blog

2 days ago
Release: Call for Palestine recognition by NZ, Australian and Canadian MPs

Parliamentarians from Australia, Canada and New Zealand have written an open letter to their respective Prime Ministers calling on them to recognise Palestine. ...

Labour Blog

2 days ago
Justice Select Committee opens floor for Treaty Principles submissions

Today, the Justice Select Committee has decided to officially open submissions for the controversial Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

3 days ago
Power of the people on full display as hīkoi approaches Parliament

Today, Hīkoi mō te Tiriti arrived in Wellington, with thousands gathering to march in unity against the divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

3 days ago
Hypocrisy as Te Whatu Ora contractor bill balloons

Te Whatu Ora’s bill for contracting and consulting staff has ballooned by nearly 20 percent under the National Government, breaking a promise they made during the election campaign to cut contractors. ...

Labour Blog

4 days ago
Release: Growing pressure to scrap Section 7AA Repeal Bill

The newly released Section 7AA Repeal Bill's select committee report is further evidence that the Government should scrap it. ...

Labour Blog

5 days ago
Government’s move to monetise access to nature a slippery slope

The Green Party is voicing serious concerns over the Government’s proposal to charge for access to public conservation land, released today. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Green Party condemns the passage of Treaty Principles Bill

The Green Party condemns the passing of the Treaty Principles Bill at first reading, and is clear that the fight is not over. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Stand Up for Te Tiriti

Te Tiriti o Waitangi is our country’s founding document. It forms the basis of the relationship between Māori and the Crown – and the Aotearoa New Zealand we live in today. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Release: Over 15,000 sign Labour’s open letter to Luxon

As the hīkoi to Parliament continues, Labour has sent an open letter to Prime Minister Christopher Luxon in a last-ditch attempt to get him to kill the Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Fast Track Bill threatens environment, climate and reputation

The fast-track legislation passing its second reading in Parliament is another step towards environmental ruin. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Greens join King’s Counsel in calling for Treaty Principles Bill to be abandoned

The Prime Minister must answer the call from a group of senior lawyers of the King’s Counsel to abandon the divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Chris Hipkins’ apology statement to state and faith-based care survivors

...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Release: Labour formally apologises to state and faith-based care survivors

Labour joins with the Government in unreservedly apologising for the abuse, neglect and trauma including torture in state and faith-based care and for ignoring the voices of survivors for too long. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Green Party stands in support of survivors of abuse in care

Today, the Green Party stands alongside the survivors of abuse in state care and faith-based care as the Government issues an historic apology. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Green Party calls for conscience vote on Treaty Principles Bill

The Green Party has written to the Speaker of the House requesting he enable a personal vote on the Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Govt move to exclude journalist risks chilling effect

The Green Party is alarmed by the Government’s move to exclude a journalist from covering this week’s apology for the survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Without action, an apology will be empty air

For tomorrow’s apology to survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care to hold any water, the Government must not pursue the same policies that drove the abuse in the first place. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Release: Concerns remain over tobacco interference

Concerns about the tobacco industry’s ability to interfere in government policy making remain, despite the inability of the Office of the Auditor-General to investigate the Government’s decision to halve the excise tax on heated tobacco products. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Urgent wake-up call on climate

The Climate Change Commission’s latest advice indicates Aotearoa needs to be stepping up on climate action. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Green MP’s Meme-ber’s Bill set to save the world

Break out the punchlines and dust off your meme folder: Green Party MP Kahurangi Carter’s Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill was pulled from the Ballot yesterday. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Release: Poroporoaki: Ta Robert (Bom) Gillies

Kua hinga te manawa kairākau o Te Rua Tekau Ma Waru Tiwhatiwha te po! Kakarauru i te po! Ka rapuhia kei hea koe kua riro! Haere e te Ika a Whiro ki o tini hoa kua ngaro atu ki te Pō ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principles Bill

The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Release: Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principle...

The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
NZ must pursue independent foreign policy

The Green Party says the need is greater than ever for Aotearoa New Zealand to pursue an independent foreign policy. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago

Record number of submissions received on granny flat proposal

Nearly 2,000 submissions have been received on the Government’s proposals aimed at making it easier to build a granny flat of up to 60 square metres without a resource or building consent, RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk say. “This is the highest number ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 hours ago
District Court Judge appointed

Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Rebecca Guthrie as a District Court Judge. Judge Guthrie was admitted to the bar in 1997 following her graduation from the University of Canterbury in 1996 (LLB, BA). She commenced her legal career in Hastings in 1997 before moving to London in ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 hours ago
Appointments strengthen Predator Free 2050

The latest Predator Free 2050 Board appointments will help to strengthen biodiversity efforts across Aotearoa New Zealand, Conservation Minister Tama Potaka says. Mr Potaka today announced two appointments to the Board of Directors of Predator Free 2050 Limited, a key player in the wider Predator Free 2050 Programme. “The Predator ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 hours ago
New facility in Christchurch will improve the lives of young New Zealanders

Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey today opened Kahurangi, an innovative and much-needed facility for Canterbury’s Child, Adolescent, and Family Mental Health Services. “The new state of the art outpatient facility opened today will be a gamechanger for the way mental health is delivered for young people in Canterbury,” says Mr ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 hours ago
Driver safety screens to be installed on Auckland buses

Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news from the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) that bus driver protection screens will be installed across Auckland’s bus fleet by 2026.“The Government is committed to improving the safety of working environments for bus drivers, and Budget 2024 allocated $15 million of Crown funding over ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 hours ago
Government action provides Southland farmers more time to meet plan requirements

The Government is taking action to ensure Southland farmers and growers are not affected by unreasonable regional farm plan deadlines, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds and Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard say.“Cabinet has agreed to provide more time for farmers and growers to comply with regional rules ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

21 hours ago
Bill reaffirms Government’s commitment to crack down on serious youth offending

The Oranga Tamariki (Responding to Serious Youth Offending) Bill had its first reading at Parliament today. The Bill reaffirms the Government’s commitment to crack down on serious youth offending, Minister for Children Karen Chhour says. “In recent years we have seen an unacceptable spike in youth offending. “This Bill makes ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

21 hours ago
Critical milestones for earthquake buildings review

Fairer, more sensible rules about managing earthquake risks are a step closer with the passing of legislation and the appointment of an independent chair to provide expert advice, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The Government is committed to reinvigorating our cities and regions to support economic growth, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

22 hours ago
State of the art radiology machine for Auckland

People in Northland and Auckland will benefit from a new machine for cancer treatment installed at the Regional Cancer and Blood Service at Auckland City Hospital. The MV5 linear accelerator, or LINAC machine, officially opened today targets cancer tumours with pinpoint accuracy. Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says this new, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

22 hours ago
Foreign Minister to visit Europe

Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Europe for high-level talks with France, Germany and the United Kingdom next week. "Since taking office almost a year ago, the Coalition Government has emphasised the importance we place on New Zealand's traditional and likeminded diplomatic and ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

23 hours ago
First arrests made under gang patch ban

Police have made their first arrests under the new gang patch legislation, with two gang members arrested, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. “Just before 11 this morning, Police in Wairoa apprehended a gang member for wearing a patch to the supermarket. He has been arrested and will now face enforcement ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

24 hours ago
Better support for victims of sexual violence

The Government is proposing two major changes to name suppression laws that will put the views of victims of sexual violence first, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “We are committed to restoring law and order and these two proposed changes will help ensure the victims of crime are put at ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Government moving forward with Regional Deals

Cabinet has agreed to invite all regions to submit proposals for Regional Deals between central and local government that drive economic growth and deliver the infrastructure our country needs, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop say. Inviting all regions to propose a Regional Deal that boosts ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
MSA pilot participant update

One of the ten young men selected to participate in the Military-Style Academy Pilot has allegedly reoffended. Children’s Minister Karen Chhour is disappointed but says it would be naïve to think that none of these young men would reoffend. “I’m saddened that this young person has not taken this opportunity ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Fighting for Kiwis in Trade

Delivered at Auckland Trade and Economic Policy School Good morning and thank you Deputy Vice Chancellor Lithander for your warm welcome and for inviting me to open Auckland Trade and Economic Policy School today. A Special thanks to the University of Auckland, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade and ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Attendance rates increase, again

Associate Education Minister David Seymour says that school attendance is continuing to rise. In Term 3 of 2024 51.3 per cent of students attended school regularly, an increase of 5.3 percentage points from 46 per cent in Term 3 of 2023. “This Government has prioritised student attendance and it is ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Improving the lives of young New Zealanders

Ensuring New Zealand is the best place in the world for children and young people is the vision at the heart of the Government’s new Child and Youth Strategy, Child Poverty Reduction Minister Louise Upston says. “Childhood represents a huge opportunity to set people on a positive path towards living ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 day ago
Government continues work to reinstate livestock exports by sea

The Government is reinstating the trade of livestock exports by sea while ensuring the highest standards of animal welfare, says Associate Minister of Agriculture Andrew Hoggard.“The Government will introduce legislation changes to reinstate the trade, enhance oversight, and strengthen requirements for exporters to identify risks and manage the welfare of ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Speech to the National Quality Forum 2024

Tēnā koutou katoa – it is a pleasure to be here today. I would like to begin by acknowledging the important leadership role you all play in ensuring a quality health system New Zealanders can trust. There is enormous clinical expertise in this room covering a wide range of disciplines. ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
New Zealand’s COP29 National Statement

Tēnā koutou katoa. Mr President, Excellencies, Delegates. New Zealand, and all nations represented here today, are already dealing with the impacts of climate change. Our households, businesses, and economies are bearing the costs of its effects. The choices we make now will shape the severity of these impacts for generations ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Latest Quarterly Investment Report released

The Government has released its second Quarterly Investment Report (QIR) which shows substantial work still to be done by agencies to improve investment reporting and meet the Government’s expectations, Infrastructure and Acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “New Zealand has significant infrastructure and investment needs. The Government is determined to get ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
New Zealand supporting loss and damage fund

Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced New Zealand will contribute NZ$10 million to the new Fund for Responding to Loss and Damage while at the annual United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP29) in Baku, Azerbaijan. “New Zealand is joining the global effort to address the significant challenge of responding to ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Gang crackdown begins at stroke of midnight

The free ride for gangs is over when the clock strikes midnight tonight, with tough new laws officially coming into effect, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith and Police Minister Mark Mitchell say. “Gang patches will no longer be able to be worn in public. To earn the right to wear a ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
LGFA increases borrowing capacity to support high growth councils

The Government is welcoming the decision by the Local Government Funding Agency to increase access to financing tools for fast growing councils to support greater investment in critical infrastructure, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says.“Communities across the country are facing an infrastructure deficit and significant population growth is projected in ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

2 days ago
Temporary Traffic Management costs revealed

The Government has revealed that over the past three years, the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) has spent an eyewatering $786 million of taxpayers’ money on road cones and temporary traffic management (TTM), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“When I became Minister, I was surprised to learn that that NZTA did ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Jurisdiction of Disputes Tribunal to double

Legislation that will double the financial jurisdiction of the Disputes Tribunal from $30,000 to $60,000 has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith. “We need to improve court timeliness and access to justice so that Kiwis and get on with their lives. Court delays affect everyone, the ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Protecting New Zealand from foreign interference

Legislation that will specifically criminalise foreign interference and strengthen espionage offences has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “It is normal and appropriate for states to interact and work to influence one another. This encourages cooperation and can have mutually beneficial outcomes. “However, the reality ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Significant milestone for Canterbury Road of National Significance

Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news that the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) Board has approved funding towards pre-implementation and early works on the State Highway 1 (SH1) Belfast to Pegasus Motorway and Woodend Bypass Road of National Significance (RoNS). “Reaching this significant milestone is a reflection of our Government’s ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Health survey results to help drive change

Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says findings from the annual Health Survey highlight the need to continue driving better health outcomes for New Zealanders. The New Zealand Health Survey is an annual snapshot of key metrics measured from July 2023 – July 2024. Findings released this morning include: In 2023/24, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Final push needed to get to Smokefree 2025

A renewed effort to get people to quit smoking will build on what has worked to date and target the groups who most need support, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello said today. “The latest New Zealand Health Survey results show the daily smoking rate at 6.9 per cent and we ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
New diplomatic appointments

Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced four new diplomatic appointments. “Our diplomats play an important role in ensuring New Zealand’s interests are maintained and enhanced across the world,” Mr Peters says. “It is a pleasure to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Next steps for Regulatory Standards Bill

Regulation Minister David Seymour has today announced the next steps in the Government’s plan improve the quality of regulation by opening consultation on a proposed Regulatory Standards Bill. “New Zealand's low wages can be blamed on low productivity, and low productivity can be blamed on poor regulation,” says Mr Seymour. ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Red Tape Tipline goes live

Minister for Regulation David Seymour has today announced that the Ministry for Regulation’s Red Tape Tipline is now live. “We want to hear about your red tape horror stories. From today, New Zealanders will have a say on how they are regulated through an online portal,” says Mr Seymour. The ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Youth Parliament 2025 announced

The Minister for Youth Matt Doocey has today announced the eleventh Youth Parliament will be taking place in 2025. “Youth Parliament offers a unique youth development opportunity to young people from across New Zealand to experience the political process and learn about how government works,” says Mr Doocey. “The two-day ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Police stats show promising change

After nearly a year in Government, Kiwis have seen significant change across law and order with promising early results shown across some Police statistics, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. “In August 2023, I told New Zealanders that if they had not started to see a change in public safety within ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Better coordination of anti-scam efforts

With the launch of Fraud Awareness Week, the Government is committing to new coordination efforts across industry and government to combat online scams, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Online financial scams are a growing problem for New Zealand. New data released today shows that Kiwis lost nearly ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Minister to consider 7AA select committee report

Minister for Children Karen Chhour will consider the recommendations made by the Social Services and Community Committee in its report back to Parliament on the Oranga Tamariki (Repeal of Section 7AA) Amendment Bill. “I want to thank the people who made submissions and those who appeared before the committee in ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Defence Minister to attend ASEAN meeting

Defence Minister Judith Collins will this week attend the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Defence Ministers’ Meeting-Plus in Vientiane, Laos. “We need to take every opportunity to engage with our international partners, given the increasingly unstable geo-political situation,” Ms Collins says. “New Zealand has a long-standing commitment to this ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Launching the White Ribbon Ride

The Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence, Karen Chhour, was on hand to wish riders well at the start of the North Island leg of the White Ribbon Ride in Whakatāne this morning. The ride helps mark the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

5 days ago
Construction to begin on next stage of Papakura to Drury

Construction on the next stage of the SH1 Papakura to Drury project will begin early next month, with the contract for works awarded to Fulton Hogan, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. "SH1 Papakura to Drury is a key project that will drive economic growth and productivity, reduce congestion, and enable people ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago

Gang chapter president’s patch seized in first 24 hours of ban

The first arrest was made just three minutes after midnight, with 11 more to come. ...

Radio NZ – political

1 hour ago
Government slammed for pushing on with boot camps amid trial

Labour has accused National of ignoring the evidence. ...

Radio NZ – political

1 hour ago
The unspoken rule of conversation that explains why AI chatbots feel so human

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Celeste Rodriguez Louro, Chair of Linguistics and Director of Language Lab, The University of Western Australia Rroselavy / Shutterstock Earlier this year, a Hong Kong finance worker was tricked into paying US$25 million to scammers who had used deepfake technology to ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

1 hour ago
Who were Caracalla and Geta, the cruel and unhinged Roman brother emperors depicted in Gladiator II?

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Hanaghan, Senior Research Fellow in Latin Christianity in Late Antiquity, Australian Catholic University Warning: this article contains mild spoilers. When Gladiator I was released in 2000, I was a high school Classics student and the film brought Classical literature to life ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

1 hour ago
Gang patch ban: The first 24 hours

The first arrest was made just three minutes after midnight, with 11 more to come. ...

Radio NZ – political

2 hours ago
New Zealand Government Urged To Back ICC Arrest Warrants For Israeli Leaders Without Equivocation

“We are waiting for our government to announce it will arrest Netanyahu and Gallant immediately if they set foot in Aotearoa New Zealand” says PSNA National Chair John Minto. ...

Scoop politics

3 hours ago
Justice Committee Makes Further Decisions About Submissions Process For The Principles Of The Treaty...

The committee plans to hold hearings in the week starting Monday, 27 January and the weeks starting 10, 17 and 24 February 2025. ...

Scoop politics

3 hours ago
Watch live: Christopher Luxon faces questions during power station visit

It comes as Labour accuses National of not listening to evidence about boot camps. ...

Radio NZ – political

3 hours ago
Survivors of abuse in care know how redress should work – will the government finally listen?

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Winter, Associate Professor in Political Theory, University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau Getty Images When Prime Minister Christopher Luxon stood in Parliament last week to apologise to survivors of abuse in care, his words were among many fine speeches by ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

3 hours ago
Review: The Day of the Jackal is a riveting and ridiculous ride

Eddie Redmayne’s globe-trotting assassin thriller on TVNZ is worth putting your phone down for. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. This is a vulnerable thing to say as someone who often writes about television for a job, but boy am I really ...

The SpinoffBy Alex Casey

3 hours ago
RNA editing is the next frontier in gene therapy – here’s what you need to know

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Flora Hui, Research Fellow, Centre for Eye Research Australia and Honorary Fellow, Department of Surgery (Ophthalmology), The University of Melbourne IoanaB/Shutterstock The United States Food and Drug Administration has just approved the first-ever clinical trial that uses CRISPR-Cas13 RNA editing. Its ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

5 hours ago
Yes, you still need to use sunscreen, despite what you’ve heard on TikTok

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Katie Lee, PhD Candidate, Dermatology Research Centre, The University of Queensland Karolina Grabowska/Pexels Summer is nearly here. But rather than getting out the sunscreen, some TikTokers are urging followers to chuck it out and go sunscreen-free. They claim it’s healthier ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

5 hours ago
Humans are killing off the old and wise animals that hold nature together. Here’s what must change

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Keller Kopf, Senior Lecturer in Ecology, Charles Darwin University Laxmikant Ameenagad, Shutterstock In humans and other animals, ageing is generally associated with a decline in biological function. But scientists are now discovering older animals perform vital roles in populations and ecosystems. ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

5 hours ago
A man scouring Google Earth found a mysterious scar in the Australian outback – and now scientists...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Matej Lipar, Adjunct Research Fellow, School of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Curtin University Author provided/Google Earth Earlier this year, a caver was poring over satellite images of the Nullarbor Plain when he came across something unexpected: an enormous, mysterious scar etched ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

5 hours ago
Design as a movement: how First Nations people take ownership of their cultural stories through fash...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Treena Clark, Chancellor’s Indigenous Research Fellow, Faculty of Design, Architecture and Building, University of Technology Sydney Once located 250 metres to the east of the Art Gallery of South Australia, the grand beaux-arts style Jubilee Exhibition Building was constructed to house the ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

5 hours ago
‘We need more doctors’ – Support for new Waikato medical school

The Association of Salaried Medical Specialists says a third medical school and more students in Auckland and Otago are both needed. ...

Radio NZ – political

5 hours ago
Cricket balls can concuss and even kill batters – at all levels, helmet use must be taken seriousl...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Annette Greenhow, Assistant Professor, Faculty of Law, Bond University Linda George/Shutterstock The ten-year anniversary of the death of much-loved Australian cricketer Phillip Hughes falls on November 27. The 25-year-old’s life was tragically cut short in 2014 when a bouncer ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

5 hours ago
Hold the roosters, no economic dawn yet

Treasury likely to downgrade economic forecast while Chris Bishop says the government won’t be ‘a slave to a surplus’, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. Recession will be deeper and last longer — Treasury At a recent Spinoff ...

The SpinoffBy Anna Rawhiti-Connell

6 hours ago
Knowing superstitions aren’t real doesn’t stop us behaving superstitiously – why?

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephanie Gomes-Ng, Senior Lecturer of Psychology, Auckland University of Technology Getty Images Former New Zealand prime minister John Key has three white rabbits painted on his helicopter, a nod to his “massively superstitious” habit of repeating “white rabbits” three times at ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

7 hours ago
Government slammed for pushing ahead with boot camps while trial still under way

The coalition has "absolutely no intention of listening to the evidence that comes out of their experiment", Labour MP says. ...

Radio NZ – political

8 hours ago
Smoke and mirrors in heated tobacco debate

Labour claims Government is ‘cherry-picking’ smoking trends data to hide decade-first increase in daily smokers The post Smoke and mirrors in heated tobacco debate appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Fox Meyer

8 hours ago
Smoke and mirrors in tobacco debate

Labour claims Government is ‘cherry-picking’ smoking trends data to hide decade-first increase in daily smokers The post Smoke and mirrors in tobacco debate appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Fox Meyer

8 hours ago
Treasury bangs the drum on ‘unsustainable’ superannuation

The Government’s economic adviser is sending a message it doesn’t want to hear – superannuation is increasingly unaffordable The post Treasury bangs the drum on ‘unsustainable’ superannuation appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Tina Morrison

8 hours ago
Victims of sex offending welcome shift on name suppression laws

A man abused by a former political figure is "immensely relieved" at a government proposal to end secrecy around sex offenders' identities. ...

Radio NZ – political

8 hours ago
This week three parties stood together – can they withstand the storm to come?

There is plenty yet to play out, but the next election is at this rate shaping up as trio versus trio, writes Toby Manhire. A subplot of this week’s historic hīkoi mō te Tiriti has been the sight of the three opposition parties presenting a unified front. Te Pāti Māori ...

The SpinoffBy Toby Manhire

9 hours ago
All 33 malls in Auckland ranked from worst to best

From the low lows of abandon empires to the high highs of a mall done just right. This is the second in the Malls of New Zealand series, where we rank the malls in major centres. Next week: Wellington. A note from the editor: This is the hardest ranking we’ve ...

The SpinoffBy Group Think

9 hours ago
The cost of being: A clothes-mad 20-something who walks everywhere

As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a 27-year-old apartment-dwelling marketing exec explains her approach to spending and saving. Want to be part of The Cost of Being? Fill out the questionnaire here. Gender: Female. Age: 27. Ethnicity: Pākehā. Role: Marketing exec at ...

The SpinoffBy The Cost of Being

9 hours ago
Newsroom daily quiz, Friday 22 November

Loading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp');Got a good quiz question? Send Newsroom your questions.The post Newsroom daily quiz, Friday 22 November appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Newsroom Puzzles

9 hours ago
Daily crossword, Friday 22 November

The post Daily crossword, Friday 22 November appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Newsroom Puzzles

9 hours ago
China likely to strengthen regional relationships in response to another Trump term

Opinion: Recent discussions in Shanghai provide some insight into what’s likely to be on the table The post China likely to strengthen regional relationships in response to another Trump term appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Jason Young

9 hours ago
Nuclear winters know no borders

Opinion: The immediate horror of nuclear weapon explosions – the blinding flash, crushing blast wave, and radioactive inferno – is well documented.But what nuclear-armed nations either don’t grasp or won’t admit, is far more chilling: how their weapons could devastate even countries thousands of kilometres from any mushroom clouds.The collapse ...

NewsroomBy Nick Wilson and Matt Boyd

9 hours ago
This week’s bestselling books – November 22

FICTION1 Kāwai: Tree of Nourishment by Monty Soutar (David Bateman, $39.99)Sample dialogue, all from one chapter:“That can’t be,” replied Taona doubtfully.“You were right. The pā is unnervingly quiet,” Taona murmured.“The Hākuwai,” Motukia breathed. “Our grandfathers told us they rarely saw the Hākuwai in daylight,” Motukia muttered.“Their fight would have been futile ...

NewsroomBy Steve Braunias

9 hours ago
Burma the flying elephant

After about two and a half years of planning and waiting, New Zealand’s last elephant has moved to her new home at Monarto Safari Park in South Australia.Burma and her “human herd”, that is, her keepers, arrived last week, and she’s settling in well, according to Auckland Zoo’s Andrew Coers.“Something ...

NewsroomBy Gwen McClure

9 hours ago
NZ’s membership of Beyond Oil and Gas Alliance in jeopardy

Senior ministers in the coalition suggested NZ’s membership will be re-evaluated if it restarts offshore oil and gas drilling The post NZ’s membership of Beyond Oil and Gas Alliance in jeopardy appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Marc Daalder

9 hours ago
Raw Politics: Six months in a leaky Bill

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon did not meet the Treaty Principles Bill hikoi crowd, sees “nothing” of merit in the Act-proposed law but the Parliament his Government dominates will spend six months debating a “divisive” measure.That’s because he has accepted there needs to be “aeration” of people’s views on the Treaty, ...

NewsroomBy Newsroom Staff

9 hours ago
Taken to the brink, Govt is now close to selling big Whakapapa ski field

Bidder Whakapapa Holdings walked away from the sales process last year, but says it’s now ‘95% there’ on a purchase agreement – so who blinked first? The post Taken to the brink, Govt is now close to selling big Whakapapa ski field appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Andrew Bevin

9 hours ago
Watts nears a landmark deal on global carbon trading

A framework for global carbon trading under the Paris Agreement is finally nearing completion at COP29 in Baku, Azerbaijan after years of halting talks.Climate Change Minister Simon Watts is one of two ministers tasked by the COP29 hosts with landing a long-sought deal on Article 6 of the climate accord, ...

NewsroomBy Marc Daalder

9 hours ago
Grattan on Friday: Marles plays a defensive bat on nuclear as the government rushes to get though la...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Richard Marles is an ambitious man who hasn’t given up the dream of one day reaching the top job. But, despite being deputy prime minister, his profile is much lower than that of Treasurer Jim ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

14 hours ago
Fears Māori will pay heaviest price if police carry guns

"Overwhelmingly, those people who die will be young Māori men," the spokesperson for People Against Prisons Aotearoa says. ...

Radio NZ – political

16 hours ago
NEW POLL: Kiwis Overwhelmingly Support MPs’ Expenses Transparency Law Change

62% of respondents support the extension of the OIA to cover MPs’ spending, compared to just 13% opposed and 24% were unsure. ...

Scoop politics

16 hours ago

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