Key vs Campbell: the transcript
Written By:
- Date published:
1:22 pm, August 15th, 2013 - 272 comments
Categories: accountability, crosby textor, democracy under attack, john key, slippery, spin, Spying, tv, us politics -
Tags: campbell live
This is a work in progress – taking some time to write up the transcript and my not finish it in the next few hours. So I’ll update it later today, along with further comments. Transcript completed.
The interview of John Key on Campbell Live last night [Wed 14 Aug 2013] was an important one for many reasons. It showed how slick, slippery John Key can be – a formidable PR opponent, and not to be underestimated by the likes of Team Shearer (as Martyn Bradbury points out in his post on the interview.)
On the one hand, Key’s interview highlighted how his media training is perhaps slicker than any previous leader we have ever had and that Shearer is going to have to start injecting steroids straight into his brain stem if he has any hope in the debates next year.
The following is as far as I’ve got with the transcript – important for looking closely at how Key operates in a contest: and it was a contest, between the usual politician aim to ignore probing journalist questions and make their prepared points; while the journalists tries to provide a challenge to such points.
I’ve added my comments in brackets.
JC: We’ve devoted much of this week to the GCSB Bill. We’re on a nationwide road trip finding out whether you support or oppose the Bill or even if you feel that informed about it. We’ve asked the prime minister to appear on a number of occasions to discuss the Bill. He’s always declined until tonight. He is with me in the studio. I am delighted to have you here Prime Minsiter. Welcvom.
JK: Great to be here. Thanks very much.
JC: Excellent. When Rebecca Wright our reporter asked you on Saturday at the National Party conference to discuss this issue you raised snapper quota. You were fairly contemptuous of Rebecca’s question line. You said no one gives a damn and you also said you probably wouldn’t come on our show. What’s changed since then?
JK: Well firstly I’m right. Nothing’s changed about the snapper. Umm. We got a 124 submissions on the GCSB Bill and 30,000 on snapper. You’re going up and down the country this week. Fair enough. Well. I go up and down the country every week. And today was the Waikato. Yesterday was Oamaru and Dunedin and the likes. And people do not raise GCSB. I have public meetings. I have question sessions in everything I do. I probably have half a dozen meetings a day with public, engaging with people.
[karol: Who are these meetings with? Public? Really? Or various select sections of the public?]
JK (continues) There is confusion about the GCSB,. I’m prepared to accept that. But actually people don’t raise this issue. They certainly raise snapper. Secondly. Why did I come on the show. Well I said I probably wouldn’t, but, but actually there is so much in this information and so many things the shows got wrong,[JC going “Well”] I felt a responsibility to come on and try and correct those.
JC: Well well that’s excellent. I wish you’d come on around the time of the first reading.
JK: Sure! No problem. [karol: Emphatically – as though in agreement. So why didn’t he go on before?]
JC: That would have been fantastic- 3 months ago. Because we’ve asked you numerous times. And it seems to me and I’ve heard that there’s been internal polling, that people didn’t like your response to Rebecca Wright. And maybe this is damage control coming from you, coming on tonight. Is that not the case [?]?.
JK: Nope we polled, ah, as we poll every week and we poll Monday and Tuesdays and our polling last night was the same as the week before and the week before and the week before – 49%.
[karol – but Nat support could have stayed the same, but there still could have been a lot of people expressing dis-approval of Key’s comments on Snapper-GCSB comments – if it was the same questions as every week, how would that get a response about the snapper comments?]
JC: Whatever. It’s great to have you here. What have we got wrong?
JK: Well you got a number of things wrong. I mean firstly. The question you’re wondering into cafes and things around the country – and basically put, the proposition you’re putting to people is that under the GCSB law ah the government effectively through GCSB will be able to wholesale spy on New Zealanders. Factually totally incorrect. OK. So the only thing GCSB can do, under the law, which is actually with much greater clarity and far better oversight than the previous law, is 3 things: 1) foreign intelligence gathering. Nothing to with New Zealanders. 2) It can provide assistance to SIS, defence and police – that’s a narrowing of
JC: That’s 8C. Yeah great
Jk: Do you know how many cases are involved in that?
JC: No I don’t.
JK: OK. OK The Rebecca Kitteridge Report outlined the total number of times assistance was provided over the last decade – there were 88 individuals. 9 a year. So that is not wholesale? That’s 1 for every half a million New Zealanders.
[karol: but some of those individuals could have been spied on over a number of years –so – 9 a year? And, as I understand it while it involved 88 individuals, that doesn’t tell us how many times the GCSB provided assistance over all]
JC: Let’s that, let’s set that aside because I don’t think very many people are objecting to 8C. Those who know what 8C is.
JK: [keen to get on with his 3rd point] The last point is cyber security.
JC: Yeah.
JK: OK. So that, under cyber security for a start off, GCSB, A has to get a warrant.
JC: From who?
JK: OK the warrant, like all warrant, is the same as the warrants from SIS
JC: From who?
JK: have to be signed by the Commissioner of Security Warrants, which is a retired high court judge.
JC: Appointed by who?
JK: By me. Has been
JC: Who is the other person who signs the warrants?
JK: OK Me right
JC: So you and a person that you have appointed sign the warrant.
JK: OK. Let’s take the first step back. [karol: a sign of a Key diversion when he is under pressure] Sir John Jeffreys was actually appointed by Helen Clark. His just retiring.
JC: Absolutely.
JK: Now Sir Bruce Robinson taken over. But Sir Bruce Robinson was the president of the court of appeal. They are independent. Are you really, seriously going to tell New Zealanders that the way the government is going to get round this
JC: Prime Minister
JK: is to corrupt a judge [JC protesting] That’s a very serious allegation, and not correct.
JC; No wai, wait a minute. You’re putting words in my mouth.
JK: Well you just said who appoints them.
JC: Well, you do appoint them. That’s a statement of fact. There’s no allegation inherent in that [karol: Well, at least no allegation of corrupting a high court judge. It’s an allegation that someone appointed by Key will be sympathetic to Key’s politics]
JK: OK But let’s take the UK as an example, just to give you an example of that [karol: diversion coming up]
JC: I don’t want to take the UK as an example. I want to talk about New Zealand
JK [interrupting] OK
JC: Hold on Prime Minister, I want to read you 8A, because you’ve just raised
JK: No. Can I just finish one last point on this? OK. Cause it’s really important. It’s why I’m on the show. It’s to get the information out. You can say whatever you like. Unfiltered for days on end on your show. So. [karol: attack the person asking uncomfortable questions]
JC: Prime Minister, hold on. We’ve asked you on numerous times. Numerous. [JC looking and sounding weary at John Key’s diversions, and mis-directions]
JK: [ignoring JC’s last point, and ploughing on] OK. So then after those two people, myself signs a warrant. And it’s signed, well it’s actually it’s actually constructed by the Commissioner, which is a former, either High Court of Appeal Court judge.
JC: Appointed by you.
JK: OK It all has to be reviewed, or can be reviewed at any time:
JC: After the fact.
JK: by the inspector. OK So, for a start off, if any, if any unlawful behaviour was taking place, all of that is reviewed, which it would be anyway, but would be reviewed by the inspector. Now with the increased oversight, the inspector’s office has considerably more powers, is much more transparent, the director of the GCSB and SIS have to appear before the public
JC: OK
JK: So, so
JC: Prime Minister, I want to come back to the
JK: Can be no wholesale
JC; I want to come back to the mistake you say we are making. The big difference between this legislation and the 2003 Act that this is amending, is absence of section 14. Dan can you whack up the graphic. I’m going to read this out. So this is section 15:
Neither the Director, nor any employee of the Bureau, nor a person acting on beg=half of the Bureau may authorise or take any action for the purpose of intercepting the communications of a person who is a New Zealand citizen or a permanent resident.” That has gone hasn’t it?
JK: OK so that was passed by Helen Clark, OK?
JC: Why has it gone?
JK: OK, so that legislation was passed, but what you’re forgetting is, section 8 of the old Act. So what happened was, Helen Clark passed that law:
JC: Why has that gone?
JK: OK so what happened was, Helen Clark passed that law with section 14. But she did everything that is being proposed [karol: the “they did it too”, gambit.] She’s been doing. She did that. By the time she was Prime Minister, and I followed on. And had been done prior to that, because under section 8. A reading of Section 8, allowed the GCSB to provide assistance.
JC: Although, that was an incorrect reading, wasn’t it? It was illegal and in the Kim Dotcom case you came out and apologised.
JK: no, no. Quite wrong. Actually, quite wrong. It was not illegal. What the lawyers did when they looked at , and some time ago.
JC: Why, why did you apologise to Kim Dotcom?
JK: OK let me come back to Kim Dotcom in a moment. So what the lawyers did, was they had a look some time ago, in fact actually the Inspector General, and said, “I’m just not quite sure about the way section 14, which is specific, works with Section 8, which is the general”
JK: OK. So basically, when the lawyers went and looked at it, they came back and said, “We think it’s probably lawful, but it’s subject to difficulties of interpretation.” OK. So take Kim Dotcom. OK. Kim Dotcom was illegal under the old law, which is why I apologised [karol: wait – didn’t JK just say it was either legal, or open to interpretation?] and it’s illegal under the new law.
JC: OK.
JK: No, no no no. Don’t say [hello?] No no no. Let me finish. So what happened under Kim Dotcom was nothing to do with getting it, whether it was section 14 or section 8. The police went to GCSB. They said to GCSB, “Kim Dotcom is a foreigner. Under your foreign intelligence powers. Which sit there – which are the ones you’re talking about under Section 14 – we want you to undertake this work.” They said, “He’s a foreigner.” But actually, he was a resident class visa holder and they were totally wrong. They were wrong.[JC: “absolutely, OK” trying to interrupt] They were wrong then and they’d be wrong now.
[karol: but what about the 88 New Zealanders spied upon by GCSB? And did the GCSB know but ignore the fact that Dotcom was a resident, because they thought it’d be OK to spy on a resident?]
JC: OK. I want to read you 8A, Prime Minister, 8A: Information and Assurance and cyber security. Right?
JK: Sure.
JC:OK “The function of the Bureau is to cooperate with and provide advice and assistance to any public authority, whether in New Zealand or overseas or to any other entity authorised by the Minister on any matters relating to the protection, security and integrity of communications.” Goes on: “To do everything that is necessary or desirable to protect the security and integrity of the communications and information infrastructures referred to in paragraph A” – Which was the first paragraph
JK: Ok so let me just tell you
JC: That is
JK: what it means
JC: It’s meaningless
JK:OK
JC: It’s so broad
JK: OK. No, it’s not meaningless. The lawyers absolutely understand that. It’s in the departmental report.
JC: The lawyers don’t understand it – the Law Society has strongly opposed this Bill.
JK: OK, we’ll come back to the Law Society in a moment. So what happens under that provision is, if the GCSB wanted to provide cyber security support to an agency – let’s take IRD and its facility – OK? So that’s the provision, under which again, they’d have to go through that process of getting a warrant by the inspector or by the Commission, by me, subject oversight of the commissioner – OK, the inspector – OK. Fine. So, that’s the first thing. You have to get a warrant. Do you know what happens under that? They cannot look at the content of
JC: OK.
JK: anything in there. All they can do, is protect you. So it’s against malware, or against a vrus. So you have on your computer
JC: Can I ask
JK: No, let me finish, cause it’s really important people understand this. So on your computer at home, you almost certainly have Norton anti-virus.
So far this takes us up to about 8 minutes into the video. To be updated….
John Key rattles off his facts and spin so quickly, it’s hard to respond immediately to the mis-directions, failures of the facts to support the claims, and the diversions.
[Transcript added 10.44mins]
JK: No, let me finish, cause it’s really important people understand this. So on your computer at home, you almost certainly have Norton Anti-virus. Or you have some sort of anti-virus thing that you’ve downloaded and paid money for. That is exactly what that is at a much higher level.
JC: OK. Well then
JK: Understand absolutely. Understands
JC: That’s the kind of vacuuming that’s going on.
JK: No. The point, the point here is that, you’re going into a shop. Or you’re going down the main street of, of New Zealand, and you are saying “Do you want to be spied on?” If you come and ask me that question, the answer John is “No.”
JC: No we’re not
JK: But you cannot do that
JC: We’re not asking people if they want to be spied on.
JK: under Section A.
JC: I’ll tell you what. Let’s play you some of the experts that are not experts. We’ve got 2 here ready to go. Sir Bruce Fergusson former head of the GCSB; Geoffrey Palmer former head of the GCSB because he was a Prime Minister like you. Listen to what they’ve said:
BF: I really I can’t get to grips with why it has to be rushed through so much, particularly given there is a large public concern about this.
GP: I think the manner in which the legislative process has been handled has been ur, pretty diabolical actually. It seems to me that we needed to go into it in much greater depth. That we needed to look at the legislation much more thoroughly. That we needed the debate to be elongated, not cut off.
JK: OK. So, let’s go through those points. Firstly, is it rushed? A year ago, when we got advice from the lawyers, that at least there was difficulties of subject to interpretation around Section 14 versus Section 8, of Labour’s law, that they passed in 2003. OK?
JC: Yeah.
JK: we said, “Well, we gotta stop providing that assistance”. So that’s the 88 individuals in those cases. That’s what stopped. It physically stopped.
JC: Yeah. Are you saying Sir Bruce Fergusson, Sir Geoffrey Palmer and the Law Society and the Privacy Commissioner and the Human Rights Commission are all wrong?
JK: Yep. OK
JC: And Anne Salmond New Zealand
JK: No no. Let me finish. No. Let me just finish.
JC: Sure. Absolutely
JK: So, what they are, what happened was, we stopped. So the only assistance that was being provided by GCSB, under warrant, signed by all these individuals, for very serious issues. People with links to terrorist activities; people who may have been involved in either providing information that could have been used for weapons of mass destruction; all of these things.
JC: You genuinely believe those people live in New Zealand
JK: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. I’ll come back to that in a moment. Those 88. Those 88 cases over 10 years – 9 people. That assistance stopped. We then went about putting clarity into the law. So people say it’s been rushed. That’s what Sir Bruce is saying, what Geoffrey Palmer is saying.
[Next section transcribed]
10.44mins
JC: The Law Society, yeah.
JK: OK Well. Is it rushed? OK. For a start off, the legislation’s been out there for some time. Secondly we ran a public hearing. Thirdly, there is nothing that’s come up in any of the 124 submissions that hasn’t been answered off in the departmental report. There’s great understanding that if you read that report
JC: [talking over JK] Prime Minister you [?] it. You are a [?] politician
JK: No I’m not.
JC: Yes you are. You’re doing a wonderful job on the show tonight. [JK talking over JC] You did rather hope that this would sneak through under the radar. You haven’t fronted. You weren’t in the House for the committee stages. You weren’t there for the second reading. You have been conspicuous by your absence.
JK: OK.
JC: You had one select committee day that you were there. I want to go through, can I ask yo…?
JK: Can I just go through those, just while we’re here.
JC: I want to ask some quick questions to get yes or no answers.
JK: No, no. no whoa, whoa, whoa just let me finish my points.[both talking, hard to make out what they are saying]
JC: Absolutely
[karol: the last section was a contest where each tried to get in their points. JK wanted to keep reeling off his points. JC was attempting to ask some challenging questions. The ever competitive John key would not allow it, and wave down JC’s protests with his hands. JK won. JC gave way.]
JK: OK, so, for a start off, I’m a bit busy running the country. So I don’t need to go in there
JC: But this is major legislation.
JK: OK, I don’t need to go in there and read out a pro forma second reading speech. By the way, Helen Clark didn’t appear in the parliament to read any of those statements or go to the committee stage. What I did do was in public hold those sessions. And by the way, when your mate Kim Dotcom said, “Oh John Key won’t front ever”, even though it was a sideshow, I actually sat there.
JC: Can I say something? I’ve never so much as had a cup of coffee with Kim Dotcom. I’ve done stories on him.
JK: Yeah but you’ve done so many stories which are absolute nonsense, and you know they are and I’ve actually answered those in the past.
JC: Prime Minister, feel free to sue us, go to the BSA, and [JK protesting] make a formal complaint
[both talking at the same time]JC: Have you ever made a formal complaint?
JK: I don’t bother complaining because when you weave your web and do all those little things
JC: Prime Minister, I tell you what
JK: none of those are factually correct and you know that.
JC: you, you play the man and not the ball. I want to ask you some questions
JK: No I’m just saying facts.
12.27 mins.
Well, that last part was SO testy – and I actually don’t think in retrospect, that JK looked better than JC. And as for Key turning up to the public hearing, even though he thought it was a sideshow? Seems like Key can resist a personal challenge. And,a s i recall, during the first public hearing session, Key did not engage, but only spoke to tell people their time was up.
12.27 mins.
JC: Can I have some yes or no answers on this?
JK: Sure.
JC: Is the GCSB using or does it have access to XKeyscore?
JK: Well, I’m not going to answer those questions.
JC; Why not?
JK: Because I don’t go into, and no prime minister has ever gone into, what techniques they actually use.
JC: So I’m I taking that as a yes.
JK: No don’t take it, no don’t take it as a yes. What I’m saying to you is, we have, we have, in 88 occasions in a decade used um basically the assistance [JC talking over Key] of GCSB
JC: Because you see the thing is, you’re sitting here, making very good reassurances, and telling us we’re fine
JK: I’m telling it because it’s correct
JC; But if the GCSB is using or has access to XFscore, then all of the stuff in your legislation is absolutely meaningless.
JK: What I’m telling you is, everything that GCSB does, is legal. So what is legal is that they can provide
JC everything that GCSB does in New Zealand is legal,
JK: Correct
JC: are our partners able to do stuff that is illegal?
JK: No
JC: the NSA, the GCHQ
JK: No
JC: OK.
JK: Well, I can’t talk about what they do in their own country and with their own legislation. That’s a matter for them, although I have seen president Obama on TV, saying that what he does is, what the US do is legal. But if you’re asking us, “Do we in New Zealand go around the back door and ask our partners to do things for us that would be otherwise not legal for GCSB to do?” The answer’s unequivocally, “No”.
JC: Will the, great! thank-you. Will the GCSB operation, once this legislation is passed, involve, or be connected to the collecting or harvesting of New Zealand’s metadata whether under warrant or not?
JK: Wha what
JC: Yes or no?
JK: No. Not in the way that you would say that. So my
JC; Potentially inadvertently?
JK: No what, it’s important that you understand what we are saying.
JC: Yep.
JK: The only ways that they can provide information of metadata, because under the law metadata’s treated the same as content, right? So there’s no differentiation in the law. So to go and look at someone’s email, is the same as collecting their email, right? So under the law, the only way they can do that is providing assistance, and the only way they can do that is for those 3 agencies , [?ing] the SIS, of which they did 9 people per year over the last decade, right? OK, so there’s
JC: So why do you need, why do you need this legislation?
JK: Because
JC: Because on the one hand you’re standing saying we need it [JK talking at same time] because the because of terrorist, on the other hand you’re down playing it [?] a number of times.
JK: let me finish my last point. So OK, some people would say in cyber security because you have the protection where you can’t see the information, but you’re protecting – some people might say it’s metadata – but it’s not reading information, it’s not collecting the the detail.
JC: So you will be accessing that?
JK: No. What I’m saying is, we provide protection.
JC: OK
JK: like the Norton Antivirus. We do not go and [?]
JC: OK. Is the GCSB using, or does it have access to PRISM?
JK: Again, I don’t go into those individual points and the point here is, it doesn’t matter what they actually use.
JC: No, it does.
JK: Why?
JC: You are the minister. Because what we have seen, in the United States, contrary to what James Clapper told Congress, is the wholesale accessing of metadata – emails, phone records –all sorts
JK: OK
JC: Completely against the knowledge of the American people, under similar legislation
JK: OK.
JC: that you are drafting
JK: Well, for a start off you’re making a very bold statement, which is not correct.
JC: No, I’m stating fact.
JK: No you’re not.
JC: Am I wrong?
JK: Yes you’re wrong.
JC: What was wrong in that statement? That the NSA was doing that?
JK: No, because you’re saying that we are proposing to do things which would be illegal.
JC: No, I’m not. I’m saying it took place in the United States.
JK: OK the onl, OK, I can’t talk about the US’s legislation. But under New Zealand legislation – to go back to the point, the only time they can look at people’s metadata and their information, in the context that you’re talking about, is when they have a warrant. There’s 9 cases. OK, so let’s give you this example: if GCSB this afternoon, were to decide they’re going to listen to every phone call, and read every txt message in New Zealand, do you know how many people that would take? A hundred and thirty thousand people, is the estimate they’ve given me, and cost 6.6 billion dollars. You are frightening people.
JC: No I’m not, Prime Minister.
JK: Yes you are.
JC: Are you telling me
JK: [?] directly and [?] you are frightening people.
JC: No, I’m not
JK: You are.
JC: Prime Minister, ah. Will the XKeyscore. Am I making that up? Its abilities? Tempore [sp?] which the G ah, which the British are using? Am I making that up? PRISM, am I making that up? The NSA activities: Am I making that up?
JK: You may as well read out what’s on a James Bond movie. Look for goodness sake
JC: Yes or no? Does XKeyscore exist? Yes or no?
JK: I don’t answer those questions because they don’t
JC: I’m not asking, I’m not asking. I’m asking if it exists?
JK: Well, it may well exist overseas, but I don’t go into what our partners use or don’t use. What I’m saying to you is – it’s like saying, how did I get here? It doesn’t matter whether I – no, let me finish. It doesn’t matter if I got here in a bus, I came here in a taxi, or I came here in a crown car. What matters is I got here. It doesn’t matter what techniques GCSB use, or don’t use. What matters is it’s legal. If it’s legal, then what I’m telling you is, the only legal things they can do, is provide assistance – of which it’s about 9 people a year. And anything else they might do in cyber security would require a warrant, would not have access to content, and is essentially like a virus protection. That’s it.
JC: Prime Minister, thank-you for joining us. I’m sorry it’s taken you so long to get in here.
JK: I’m more than happy to come. But the point is, you know, we’ve gotta have decent stuff to debate. We’ve been going through a process, I can’t come on your show until we go through the proper process going through. But what I can tell you, is the same thing I’d tell any New Zealander whose watching this show. They have absolutely nothing to be worried about. The security risks that New Zealanders face are real
JC: Prime Minister,
JK: But they have to be protected properly.
JC; The security risks New Zealanders face are real and that’s.
JK: Absolutely. And that’s what that law does. Protects them properly.
JC: I’d like to talk to you at a later stage about what those security risks are.
JK: Sure. Yeah. No problem
JC; Prime Minister thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate your time. Lovely to have you in here with us.
JK: Nice to be on the show.
[JC finishes urging people to vote on their poll]
END TRANSCRIPT!
Well, if I knew how long it’s take to transcribe this interview, I’d probably never have started. And just when I thought Campbell was winding up the interview, Key just would not be quiet – has to have the last word, repeating over and over again his main spin lines – like the guy bending your ear in the pub who won’t go away.
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I don't knowHow to say what's got to be saidI don't know if it's black or whiteThere's others see it redI don't get the answers rightI'll leave that to youIs this love out of fashionOr is it the time of yearAre these words distraction?To the words you want to hearSongwriters: ...2 days ago - Austerity thumps GDP most since 1991
Our economy has experienced its worst recession since 1991. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMōrena. Long stories short, the six things that matter in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Friday, December 20 in The Kākā’s Dawn Chorus podcast above and the daily Pick ‘n’ Mix below ...2 days ago
- Weekly Roundup 20-December-2024
Twas the Friday before Christmas and all through the week we’ve been collecting stories for our final roundup of the year. As we start to wind down for the year we hope you all have a safe and happy Christmas and new year. If you’re travelling please be safe on ...2 days ago - The Hoon around the year to December 20, 2024
The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts & talking about the year’s news with: on climate. Her book of the year was Tim Winton’s cli-fi novel Juice and she also mentioned Mike Joy’s memoir The Fight for Fresh Water. ...2 days ago
- The baby-boomers’ last gasp
The Government can head off to the holidays, entitled to assure itself that it has done more or less what it said it would do. The campaign last year promised to “get New Zealand back on track.” When you look at the basic promises—to trim back Government expenditure, toughen up ...3 days ago - Skeptical Science New Research for Week #51 2024
Open access notables An intensification of surface Earth’s energy imbalance since the late 20th century, Li et al., Communications Earth & Environment: Tracking the energy balance of the Earth system is a key method for studying the contribution of human activities to climate change. However, accurately estimating the surface energy balance ...3 days ago
- Join us at 5pm for 2024’s last Hoon
Photo by Mauricio Fanfa on UnsplashKia oraCome and join us for our weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm today.Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream for our chat about the week’s news with myself , plus regular guests and , ...3 days ago - Christmas Gifts: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.
“Like you said, I’m an unreconstructed socialist. Everybody deserves to get something for Christmas.”“ONE OF THOSE had better be for me!” Hannah grinned, fascinated, as Laurie made his way, gingerly, to the bar, his arms full of gift-wrapped packages.“Of course!”, beamed Laurie. Depositing his armful on the bar-top and selecting ...3 days ago
- GDP Figures No Christmas Present for New Zealand
Data released by Statistics New Zealand today showed a significant slowdown in the economy over the past six months, with GDP falling by 1% in September, and 1.1% in June said CTU Economist Craig Renney. “The data shows that the size of the economy in GDP terms is now smaller ...3 days ago
- Cheeseburgers and Stunt Monkeys
One last thing before I quitI never wanted any moreThan I could fit into my headI still remember every single word you saidAnd all the shit that somehow came along with itStill, there's one thing that comforts meSince I was always caged and now I'm freeSongwriters: David Grohl / Georg ...3 days ago - MSD rejecting 220 pleas for food grants each day
Sparse offerings outside a Te Kauwhata church. Meanwhile, the Government is cutting spending in ways that make thousands of hungry children even hungrier, while also cutting funding for the charities that help them. It’s also doing that while winding back new building of affordable housing that would allow parents to ...3 days ago
- The Wing Parties’ Economic Policies.
It is difficult to make sense of the Luxon Coalition Government’s economic management.This end-of-year review about the state of economic management – the state of the economy was last week – is not going to cover the National Party contribution. Frankly, like every other careful observer, I cannot make up ...3 days ago - Back on Track
This morning I awoke to the lovely news that we are firmly back on track, that is if the scale was reversed.NZ ranks low in global economic comparisonsNew Zealand's economy has been ranked 33rd out of 37 in an international comparison of which have done best in 2024.Economies were ranked ...3 days ago - Book Review: How Big Things Get Done
This is a guest post by George Weeks, reviewing a book called How Big Things Get Done by Bent Flyvbjerg and Dan Gardner Want to know how to do something big? Ask someone who has done it before! Professor Bent Flyvbjerg has spent his career studying megaprojects. In 2023, ...3 days ago
- Gordon Campbell On Why We Can’t Survive Two More Years Of This
Remember those silent movies where the heroine is tied to the railway tracks or going over the waterfall in a barrel? Finance Minister Nicola Willis seems intent on portraying herself as that damsel in distress. According to Willis, this country’s current economic problems have all been caused by the spending ...4 days ago - Dragging our way towards the finish line, the end of this year can’t come soon enough for many…
Similar to the cuts and the austerity drive imposed by Ruth Richardson in the 1990’s, an era which to all intents and purposes we’ve largely fiddled around the edges with fixing in the time since – over, to be fair, several administrations – whilst trying our best it seems to ...4 days ago - Handling Democracy.
String-Pulling in the Dark: For the democratic process to be meaningful it must also be public. WITH TRUST AND CONFIDENCE in New Zealand’s politicians and journalists steadily declining, restoring those virtues poses a daunting challenge. Just how daunting is made clear by comparing the way politicians and journalists treated New Zealanders ...4 days ago
- Open letter to the Minister of Dwindling Finances
Dear Nicola Willis, thank you for letting us know in so many words that the swingeing austerity hasn't worked.By in so many words I mean the bit where you said, Here is a sea of red ink in which we are drowning after twelve months of savage cost cutting and ...4 days ago - Open Government: The joke ends
The Open Government Partnership is a multilateral organisation committed to advancing open government. Countries which join are supposed to co-create regular action plans with civil society, committing to making verifiable improvements in transparency, accountability, participation, or technology and innovation for the above. And they're held to account through an Independent ...4 days ago
- An unusual sort of press conference
Today I tuned into something strange: a press conference that didn’t make my stomach churn or the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end. Which was strange, because it was about the torture of children. It was the announcement by Erica Stanford — on her own, unusually ...4 days ago - This substack has talked about this government’s seeming corruption & pro-corporate issues...
This is a must watch, and puts on brilliant and practical display the implications and mechanics of fast-track law corruption and weakness.CLICK HERE: LINK TO WATCH VIDEOOur news media as it is set up is simply not equipped to deal with the brazen disinformation and corruption under this right wing ...4 days ago - NZCTU: Minister needs to listen to the evidence on engineered stone ban
NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi Acting Secretary Erin Polaczuk is welcoming the announcement from Minister of Workplace Relations and Safety Brooke van Velden that she is opening consultation on engineered stone and is calling on her to listen to the evidence and implement a total ban of the product. “We need ...4 days ago
- Wednesday 18 December
The Government has announced a 1.5% increase in the minimum wage from 1 April 2025, well below forecast inflation of 2.5%. Unions have reacted strongly and denounced it as a real terms cut. PSA and the CTU are opposing a new round of staff cuts at WorkSafe, which they say ...4 days ago
- Can the government change its mind on the ferries?
The decision to unilaterally repudiate the contract for new Cook Strait ferries is beginning to look like one of the stupidest decisions a New Zealand government ever made. While cancelling the ferries and their associated port infrastructure may have made this year's books look good, it means higher costs later, ...4 days ago
- Notes from Afar: Will Luxon Attend Waitangi Day? And Opposition Calls Out Nicola Willis for “C...
Hi there! I’ve been overseas recently, looking after a situation with a family member. So apologies if there any less than focused posts! Vanuatu has just had a significant 7.3 earthquake. Two MFAT staff are unaccounted for with local fatalities.It’s always sad to hear of such things happening.I think of ...4 days ago - Member’s morning
Today is a special member's morning, scheduled to make up for the government's theft of member's days throughout the year. First up was the first reading of Greg Fleming's Crimes (Increased Penalties for Slavery Offences) Amendment Bill, which was passed unanimously. Currently the House is debating the third reading of ...4 days ago
- Going Backwards
We're going backwardsIgnoring the realitiesGoing backwardsAre you counting all the casualties?We are not there yetWhere we need to beWe are still in debtTo our insanitiesSongwriter: Martin Gore Read more ...4 days ago - Blaming Treasury & Labour, Willis looks for even more Austerity
Willis blamed Treasury for changing its productivity assumptions and Labour’s spending increases since Covid for the worsening Budget outlook. Photo: Getty ImagesMōrena. Long stories short, the six things that matter in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Wednesday, December 18 in The Kākā’s Dawn Chorus podcast above ...4 days ago
- December-24 AT Board Meeting
Today the Auckland Transport board meet for the last time this year. For those interested (and with time to spare), you can follow along via this MS Teams link from 10am. I’ve taken a quick look through the agenda items to see what I think the most interesting aspects are. ...4 days ago
- The Making of a Mental Health Rockstar
Hi,If you’re a New Zealander — you know who Mike King is. He is the face of New Zealand’s battle against mental health problems. He can be loud and brash. He raises, and is entrusted with, a lot of cash. Last year his “I Am Hope” charity reported a revenue ...4 days ago - It could have been worse
Probably about the only consolation available from yesterday’s unveiling of the Half-Yearly Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU) is that it could have been worse. Though Finance Minister Nicola Willis has tightened the screws on future government spending, she has resisted the calls from hard-line academics, fiscal purists and fiscal hawks ...5 days ago
- The Deep Divisions of Local Government
The right have a stupid saying that is only occasionally true:When is democracy not democracy? When it hasn’t been voted on.While not true in regards to branches of government such as the judiciary, it’s a philosophy that probably should apply to recently-elected local government councillors. Nevertheless, this concept seemed to ...5 days ago - Willis’ austerity strategy just isn’t working
Long story short: the Government’s austerity policy has driven the economy into a deeper and longer recession that means it will have to borrow $20 billion more over the next four years than it expected just six months ago. Treasury’s latest forecasts show the National-ACT-NZ First Government’s fiscal strategy of ...5 days ago
- Sabin 33 #7 – Are solar projects hurting farmers and rural communities?
On November 1, 2024 we announced the publication of 33 rebuttals based on the report "Rebutting 33 False Claims About Solar, Wind, and Electric Vehicles" written by Matthew Eisenson, Jacob Elkin, Andy Fitch, Matthew Ard, Kaya Sittinger & Samuel Lavine and published by the Sabin Center for Climate Change Law at Columbia ...5 days ago
- Join us for a pop-up Hoon at 5pm on HYEFU
5 days ago - ‘Ideas Worth Saving’: A Call for Papers
Some years ago, I found myself pondering the power of literature to endure. Or at least the power of some of it to endure, while the rest vanishes in mere decades: https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2019/08/07/look-on-my-works-ye-mighty-and-despair-the-literary-future/. I have similarly had fun with the subject in some of my short stories, such as Another Alexandria ...5 days ago - Corrections is torturing prisoners again
In 1998, in the wake of the Paremoremo Prison riot, the Department of Corrections established the "Behaviour Management Regime". Prisoners were locked in their cells for 22 or 23 hours a day, with no fresh air, no exercise, no social contact, no entertainment, and in some cases no clothes and ...5 days ago
- HYEFU and BPS data shows New Zealand is way off track
New data released by the Treasury shows that the economic policies of this Government have made things worse in the year since they took office, said NZCTU Economist Craig Renney. “Our fiscal indicators are all heading in the wrong direction – with higher levels of debt, a higher deficit, and ...5 days ago
- “Better economic management”
At the 2023 election, National basically ran on a platform of being better economic managers. So how'd that turn out for us? In just one year, they've fucked us for two full political terms: The government's books are set to remain deeply in the red for the near term ...5 days ago
- Shameless, clueless
AUSTERITYText within this block will maintain its original spacing when publishedMy spreadsheet insists This pain leads straight to glory (File not found) Read more ...5 days ago - Minimum wage ‘increase’ is an effective cut
The NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi are saying that the Government should do the right thing and deliver minimum wage increases that don’t see workers fall further behind, in response to today’s announcement that the minimum wage will only be increased by 1.5%, well short of forecast inflation. “With inflation forecast ...5 days ago
- Crazy ’bout a Sharp-dressed Man
Oh, I weptFor daysFilled my eyesWith silly tearsOh, yeaBut I don'tCare no moreI don't care ifMy eyes get soreSongwriters: Paul Rodgers / Paul Kossoff. Read more ...5 days ago - How much should you worry about a collapse of the Atlantic conveyor belt?
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Bob Henson In this aerial view, fingers of meltwater flow from the melting Isunnguata Sermia glacier descending from the Greenland Ice Sheet on July 11, 2024, near Kangerlussuaq, Greenland. According to the Programme for Monitoring of the Greenland Ice Sheet (PROMICE), the ...5 days ago
- 8% ACT Party Creates One Ring To Rule Them All
In August, I wrote an article about David Seymour1 with a video of his testimony, to warn that there were grave dangers to his Ministry of Regulation:David Seymour's Ministry of Slush Hides Far Greater RisksWhy Seymour's exorbitant waste of taxpayers' money could be the least of concernThe money for Seymour ...5 days ago - When austerity worsens public debt & cuts GDP
Willis is expected to have to reveal the bitter fiscal fruits of her austerity strategy in the HYEFU later today. Photo: Lynn Grieveson/TheKakaMōrena. Long stories short, the six things that matter in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Tuesday, December 17 in The Kākā’s Dawn Chorus podcast ...5 days ago
- Govt to double number of toll roads
On Friday the government announced it would double the number of toll roads in New Zealand as well as make a few other changes to how toll roads are used in the country. The real issue though is not that tolling is being used but the suggestion it will make ...5 days ago
- Luxon’s pre-emptive strike
The Prime Minister yesterday engaged in what looked like a pre-emptive strike designed to counter what is likely to be a series of depressing economic statistics expected before the end of the week. He opened his weekly post-Cabinet press conference with a recitation of the Government’s achievements. “It certainly has ...6 days ago
- Gordon Campbell On The Coalition’s Empty Gestures, And Abortion Refusal As The New Slavery
This whooping cough story from south Auckland is a good example of the coalition government’s approach to social need – spend money on urging people to get vaccinated but only after you’ve cut the funding to where they could get vaccinated. This has been the case all year with public ...6 days ago
- More public service contempt of parliament
Back in 2023 the New Zealand Council for Civil Liberties raised concerns about the inherent conflict of interest involved in public service agencies supporting parliamentary select committees. Our parliament is run on a shoestring, so depends on the public service for advice. But public service agencies work for Ministers, not ...6 days ago
- If There Is A God
And if there is a GodI know he likes to rockHe likes his loud guitarsHis spiders from MarsAnd if there is a GodI know he's watching meHe likes what he seesBut there's trouble on the breezeSongwriter: William Patrick Corgan Read more ...6 days ago - A Lipstick Government
Here’s a quick round up of today’s political news:1. MORE FOOD BANKS, CHARITIES, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE SHELTERS AND YOUTH SOCIAL SERVICES SET TO CLOSE OR SCALE BACK AROUND THE COUNTRY AS GOVT CUTS FUNDINGSome of Auckland's largest foodbanks are warning they may need to close or significantly reduce food parcels after ...6 days ago - NZCTU open letter to Treasury on undue restrictions on restricted briefings
Iain Rennie, CNZMSecretary and Chief Executive to the TreasuryDear Secretary, Undue restrictions on restricted briefings This week, the Treasury barred representatives from four organisations, including the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions Te Kauae Kaimahi, from attending the restricted briefing for the Half-Year Economic and Fiscal Update. We had been ...6 days ago
- Why you won’t hear me advocate for electric cars
This is a guest post by Tim Adriaansen, a community, climate, and accessibility advocate. I won’t shut up about climate breakdown, and whenever possible I try to shift the focus of a climate conversation towards solutions. But you’ll almost never hear me give more than a passing nod to ...6 days ago
- Coalition forced to back down on tolling Pahiatua track
A grassroots backlash has forced a backdown from Brown, but he is still eyeing up plenty of tolls for other new roads. And the pressure is on Willis to ramp up the Government’s austerity strategy. Photo: Getty ImagesMōrena. Long stories short, the six things that matter in Aotearoa’s political economy ...6 days ago
- Thank You
Hi all,I'm pretty overwhelmed by all your messages and emails today; thank you so very much.As much as my newsletter this morning was about money, and we all need to earn money, it was mostly about world domination if I'm honest. 😉I really hate what’s happening to our country, and ...7 days ago - 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #50
A listing of 23 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, December 8, 2024 thru Sat, December 14, 2024. Listing by Category Like last week's summary this one contains the list of articles twice: based on categories and based on ...7 days ago
- Making Gravy
I started writing this morning about Hobson’s Pledge, examining the claims they and their supporters make, basically ripping into them. But I kept getting notifications coming through, and not good ones.Each time I looked up, there was another un-subscription message, and I felt a bit sicker at the thought of ...1 week ago - Nothing here but the shadows
Once, long before there was Harry and Meghan and Dodi and all those episodes of The Crown, they came to spend some time with us, Charles and Diana. Was there anyone in the world more glamorous than the Princess of Wales?Dazzled as everyone was by their company, the leader of ...1 week ago - The United Right: the FSU’s Continued Efforts to Undermine Academia
The collective right have a problem.The entire foundation for their world view is antiscientific. Their preferred economic strategies have been disproven. Their whole neoliberal model faces accusations of corporate corruption and worsening inequality. Climate change not only definitely exists, its rapid progression demands an immediate and expensive response in order ...1 week ago
- Showing the Americans how to do it
Just ten days ago, South Korea's president attempted a self-coup, declaring martial law and attempting to have opposition MPs murdered or arrested in an effort to seize unconstrained power. The attempt was rapidly defeated by the national assembly voting it down and the people flooding the streets to defend democracy. ...1 week ago
- 2 Men, 1 Haircut
Hi,“What I love about New Zealanders is that sometimes you use these expressions that as Americans we have no idea what those things mean!"I am watching a 30-something year old American ramble on about how different New Zealanders are to Americans. It’s his podcast, and this man is doing a ...1 week ago - Chris Penk’s Hate Parade
What Chris Penk has granted holocaust-denier and equal-opportunity-bigot Candace Owens is not “freedom of speech”. It’s not even really freedom of movement, though that technically is the right she has been granted. What he has given her is permission to perform. Freedom of SpeechIn New Zealand, the right to freedom ...1 week ago - Tell me a story
All those tears on your cheeksJust like deja vu flow nowWhen grandmother speaksSo tell me a story (I'll tell you a story)Spell it out, I can't hear (What do you want to hear?)Why you wear black in the morning?Why there's smoke in the air? Songwriter: Greg Johnson.Mōrena all ☀️Something a ...1 week ago - As Our Power Lessens: Accepted
2024 is now officially my best-ever year for short stories. My 1,850-word dark fantasy piece, As Our Power Lessens, has been accepted for the upcoming solstice edition of Eternal Haunted Summer (https://eternalhauntedsummer.com/), thereby making that six published short stories for the calendar year. As always, see the Bibliography page for ...1 week ago
- National’s Greatest Misses 2023-4
National has only been in power for a year, but everywhere you look, its choices are taking New Zealand a long way backwards. In no particular order, here are the National Government's Top 50 Greatest Misses of its first year in power. ...2 days ago - Release: Minister’s plan for tertiary sector a backwards step
Returning to the model that was failing for most polytechnics and Institutes of Technology is not the answer. ...2 days ago
- Release: National buries 1019 planned homes
It’s been revealed that National has cancelled 60 percent of its housing projects planned before mid-2025 amidst housing woes. ...2 days ago
- Release: Rule-Czar bill a right-wing power grab
The Government is quietly undertaking consultation on the dangerous Regulatory Standards Bill over the Christmas period to avoid too much attention. ...2 days ago
- Release: Why not both? Luxon shuns Waitangi celebrations
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon is running away from problems of his own creation, with his decision not to go to Waitangi. ...3 days ago
- Govt’s ‘free speech’ legislation stokes fear, not freedom
The Government’s planned changes to the freedom of speech obligations of universities is little more than a front for stoking the political fires of disinformation and fear, placing teachers and students in the crosshairs. ...3 days ago - Release: Nicola Willis spirals country deeper into recession
The economy shrank 1% this quarter and New Zealand has tumbled into the depths of a recession of Nicola Willis’ making. ...3 days ago
- Release: Hikes for company directors but not ordinary Kiwis
Working people are going backwards while company directors are being given huge pay hikes. ...4 days ago
- ECE no place to cut corners
The Ministry of Regulation’s report into Early Childhood Education (ECE) in Aotearoa raises serious concerns about the possibility of lowering qualification requirements, undermining quality and risking worse outcomes for tamariki, whānau, and kaiako. ...4 days ago
- Release: Strengthening Justice Services for New Zealanders
A Bill to modernise the role of Justices of the Peace (JP), ensuring they remain active in their communities and connected with other JPs, has been put into the ballot. ...4 days ago
- Release: Labour will continue fight against destructive projects
Labour will continue to fight unsustainable and destructive projects that are able to leap-frog environment protection under National’s Fast-track Approvals Bill. ...5 days ago
- Green Government will revoke dodgy fast-track projects
The Green Party has warned that a Green Government will revoke the consents of companies who override environmental protections as part of Fast-Track legislation being passed today. ...5 days ago
- Government for the wealthy keeps pushing austerity
The Green Party says the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update shows how the Government is failing to address the massive social and infrastructure deficits our country faces. ...5 days ago
- Release: Visa changes let migrant workers be paid less
The Government’s latest move to reduce the earnings of migrant workers will not only hurt migrants but it will drive down the wages of Kiwi workers. ...5 days ago
- Release: Nightmare before Christmas for Nicola Willis
With more debt and a larger deficit, Nicola Willis’ reputation is in tatters after her failure to return the Government’s books to surplus. ...5 days ago
- Warning to Fast-Track Applicants – ‘Exploit the Whenua, Face the Consequences’
Te Pāti Māori has this morning issued a stern warning to Fast-Track applicants with interests in mining, pledging to hold them accountable through retrospective liability and to immediately revoke Fast-Track consents under a future Te Pāti Māori government. This warning comes ahead of today’s third reading of the Fast-Track Approvals ...5 days ago
- Release: Govt cuts wages for lowest paid NZers… again
For the second year running, the government has effectively cut wages for the lowest paid workers in New Zealand. ...5 days ago
- Govt’s miserly 1.5% minimum wage will take workers backwards
The Government’s announcement today of a 1.5 per cent increase to minimum wage is another blow for workers, with inflation projected to exceed the increase, meaning it’s a real terms pay reduction for many. ...5 days ago
- Release: Govt shirking responsibility for rate hikes
All the Government has achieved from its announcement today is to continue to push responsibility back on councils for its own lack of action to help bring down skyrocketing rates. ...5 days ago
- Luxon’s ‘localism’ strikes again
The Government has used its final post-Cabinet press conference of the year to punch down on local government without offering any credible solutions to the issues our councils are facing. ...6 days ago
- Release: Govt breaks promise on EV chargers
The Government has failed to keep its promise to ‘super charge’ the EV network, delivering just 292 chargers - less than half of the 670 chargers needed to meet its target. ...6 days ago
- Greens call for end to subsidies for Methanex
The Green Party is calling for the Government to stop subsidising the largest user of the country’s gas supplies, Methanex, following a report highlighting the multi-national’s disproportionate influence on energy prices in Aotearoa. ...6 days ago
- Govt child poverty targets allow for increase in poverty
The Green Party is appalled with the Government’s new child poverty targets that are based on a new ‘persistent poverty’ measure that could be met even with an increase in child poverty. ...1 week ago
- Release: Four weeks annual leave under threat
The Government’s attack on workers continues with news it is scrapping work on the Holidays Act. ...1 week ago
- Govt’s emissions plan for measly 1% reduction
New independent analysis has revealed that the Government’s Emissions Reduction Plan (ERP) will reduce emissions by a measly 1 per cent by 2030, failing to set us up for the future and meeting upcoming targets. ...1 week ago
- Greens stand in solidarity with Whakaata Māori on sad day
The loss of 27 kaimahi at Whakaata Māori and the end of its daily news bulletin is a sad day for Māori media and another step backwards for Te Tiriti o Waitangi justice. ...1 week ago
- Sanctions regime to create more hardship for families
Yesterday the Government passed cruel legislation through first reading to establish a new beneficiary sanction regime that will ultimately mean more households cannot afford the basic essentials. ...1 week ago
- Govt gifts renters housing anxiety for Christmas
Today's passing of the Government's Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill–which allows landlords to end tenancies with no reason–ignores the voice of the people and leaves renters in limbo ahead of the festive season. ...1 week ago
- Release: National Party urged to support modern slavery legislation
Labour is urging the Prime Minister to walk the talk and support legislation combating modern slavery. ...1 week ago
- Release: Labour has lost confidence in the Speaker
The Speaker of the New Zealand Parliament made an unprecedented decision on the government amendment to the Fast Track Approvals Bill last night. ...1 week ago
- One year on, still no progress on new ferries
Today’s announcement from the Government on its plan for new ferries throws more uncertainty on the future of the country’s rail network. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Nicola Willis’ smaller ferries will cost more
After wasting a year, Nicola Willis has delivered a worse deal for the Cook Strait ferries that will end up being more expensive and take longer to arrive. ...2 weeks ago
- Bill to sanction unlawful occupation of Palestine
Green Party co-leader Chlöe Swarbrick has today launched a Member’s Bill to sanction Israel for its unlawful presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, as the All Out For Gaza rally reaches Parliament. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Labour fully supports greyhound racing ban
The Government has done the right thing in moving to ban greyhound racing. ...2 weeks ago
- Greyhound racing industry ban marks new era for animal welfare
After years of advocacy, the Green Party is very happy to hear the Government has listened to our collective voices and announced the closure of the greyhound racing industry, by 1 August 2026. ...2 weeks ago
- Rangatahi voices must be centred in Government’s Relationship and Sexuality Education refresh
In response to a new report from ERO, the Government has acknowledged the urgent need for consistency across the curriculum for Relationship and Sexuality Education (RSE) in schools. ...2 weeks ago
- Govt introduces archaic anti-worker legislation
The Green Party is appalled at the Government introducing legislation that will make it easier to penalise workers fighting for better pay and conditions. ...2 weeks ago
- Winston Peters – Kinleith Mill Speech
Thank you for the invitation to speak with you tonight on behalf of the political party I belong to - which is New Zealand First. As we have heard before this evening the Kinleith Mill is proposing to reduce operations by focusing on pulp and discontinuing “lossmaking paper production”. They say that they are currently consulting on the plan to permanently shut ...2 weeks ago - Swarbrick calls on Auckland Mayor to end delay of revival of St James Theatre
Auckland Central MP, Chlöe Swarbrick, has written to Mayor Wayne Brown requesting he stop the unnecessary delays on St James Theatre’s restoration. ...2 weeks ago
- He Ara Anamata: Greens launch Emissions Reduction Plan
Today, the Green Party of Aotearoa proudly unveils its new Emissions Reduction Plan–He Ara Anamata–a blueprint reimagining our collective future. ...2 weeks ago
- Internationally-trained doctors jump at chance to boost health workforce
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says Health New Zealand will move swiftly to support dozens of internationally-trained doctors already in New Zealand on their journey to employment here, after a tripling of sought-after examination places. “The Medical Council has delivered great news for hardworking overseas doctors who want to contribute ...8 hours ago - PM appoints business leader to APEC Business Advisory Council
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has appointed Sarah Ottrey to the APEC Business Advisory Council (ABAC). “At my first APEC Summit in Lima, I experienced firsthand the role that ABAC plays in guaranteeing political leaders hear the voice of business,” Mr Luxon says. “New Zealand’s ABAC representatives are very well respected and ...2 days ago
- New intelligence oversight appointments
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has announced four appointments to New Zealand’s intelligence oversight functions. The Honourable Robert Dobson KC has been appointed Chief Commissioner of Intelligence Warrants, and the Honourable Brendan Brown KC has been appointed as a Commissioner of Intelligence Warrants. The appointments of Hon Robert Dobson and Hon ...2 days ago
- New housing developments able to progress more quickly
Improvements in the average time it takes to process survey and title applications means housing developments can progress more quickly, Minister for Land Information Chris Penk says. “The government is resolutely focused on improving the building and construction pipeline,” Mr Penk says. “Applications to issue titles and subdivide land are ...2 days ago
- Actions to speed up air travel delivering results
The Government’s measures to reduce airport wait times, and better transparency around flight disruptions is delivering encouraging early results for passengers ahead of the busy summer period, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Improving the efficiency of air travel is a priority for the Government to give passengers a smoother, more reliable ...2 days ago
- Ending contracted emergency housing in Rotorua
The Government today announced the intended closure of the Apollo Hotel as Contracted Emergency Housing (CEH) in Rotorua, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. This follows a 30 per cent reduction in the number of households in CEH in Rotorua since National came into Government. “Our focus is on ending CEH in the Whakarewarewa area starting ...2 days ago
- Vocational education and training decisions support return to regions
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Shearer has no chance in a debate when key has had enough grooming time.
it makes no sense to me that conservative law society is wrong and key is right on statutory interpret
Awesome summary…
I cant believe Key compared GCSB to Nortons Anti Virus… Nortons is TERRIBLE…. well… maybe i can?
The consumer stuff is, because that’s their testbed for enterprise.
Their enterprise stuff is excellent.
I don’t necessarily doubt it, but that’s always struck me as a stupid idea, given that at least some of the people who make purchasing decisions for enterprise will have had their first exposure to a product as a consumer.
Yeah, I found that statement amazing. I was told directly by Symantec.
In his words “Home software is the beta versions of our enterprise products”
Yeah that’s a terrible comparison. Cybersecurity agencies have very little in common with antiviruses in specific, although I suppose in broad terms you could say they’re both intrusive and expensive useless things that are supposedly there to protect you. 😛
Point is he did well and might as well have finished with “nothing to see here”
Greens labour anyone has to have 2 constant mantras…
if only 9 people a year why rush it. Why the haste? No terror attacks on nz soil since rainbow warrior so why rush it prime minister or have you promised someone you will do it urgently
we will repeal immediately then enquire and consult
The reason the bill is being rushed is because there is a chance that the other 88 New Zealand citizens who were illegally spied on by the GCSB might find out. The government would then face further court cases like the Kim Dotcom one. If the government can stall Dotcom’s case until the retrospective legislation is passed, there will be no ruling against the GCSB.
Great post BTW Karol. It really makes Key look like a plonker when what he says is put down in black and white. All that Teflon glow doesn’t seem to transfer to print very well. Just out of interest, Campbell managed to get in approximately 800 words compared to Keys 1600. Still didn’t seem to answer any questions properly though.
Key “lied his way into office and is still at it” no lesser authority than Helen Clark said to me at a Labour street gathering in Dominion Rd some time back. And she was correct. I am not a Labour member but knew her from many years in the broader labour movement around Auckland. And as the years go by her assessment is proven more conclusively.
You can’t blame John Campbell for trying, precious few others outside the blogs are. Those that are need to keep chipping away though, the CT memos from HQ are not going to save the PM’s flabby backside for ever.
Helen Clark doesn’t like John Key!!!!!! Oh noes! You’re kidding!
Yep, struck me as hard to believe too!
I suspect Helen will be delighted to see the caning that Campbell received.
Your transcribing of the interview would have more credibility if you weren’t tarnishing it with other comments and saying things like “interrupting” when John key interrupts John Campbell, but failing to do the same for all the times John campbell interrupted Key.
They were interrupting each other. I’ve indicated at points where Campbell was talking over Key, -e.g. when he’s trying to protest in the middle of Key talking.
But Key’s style is also to talk very fast, and not let interruptions stop his rolling lines of spin.
That’s a good way of spinning it yourself Karol. JC talks over everyone he interviews. Finally someone tells him to shut up and wait until he’s finished talked.
That’s JC’s style I’m afraid.
You can only win an argument if you are doing the talking. If you are listening you have lost.
??? Well, that’s the problem isn’t it? JK was not going on the show to actually provide information – he was going on to ‘win’.
Listening to alternative points of view can improve your knowledge, perhaps that’s why Key kept the monologue going.
Yes that’s what interests me about this.
Key is deliberately trying to prevent us from knowing the facts, and a bunch of people posting here think that’s a good thing.
Why do they not want the facts? And if that’s not the case, why do they cheer Key on for being good at concealing the facts?
Why do they think being the best at not serving the public is a “win”?
Well that says a lot about them
That a Politician wants to win an argument? ummmmm…?
I am shocked.
That a politician wants to win an argument by lying as a means to reduce democracy in NZ.
fify.
Notice how not a single one of them is prepared to defend anything John Key said?
“Yes that’s what interests me about this.
Key is deliberately trying to prevent us from knowing the facts, and a bunch of people posting here think that’s a good thing.
Why do they not want the facts? And if that’s not the case, why do they cheer Key on for being good at concealing the facts?
Why do they think being the best at not serving the public is a “win”?” ~ Felix
@ Felix
Really very well said, thanks Felix
You have just summed up exactly what is so very bizarre about people viewing Key’s efforts on Campbell’s programme as something positive.
We know the facts… It’s in the bill. The fact is, JC was wrong, on a number of points and got told.
n a dozen or so comments on this topic, you haven’t mentioned a single point on which JC was wrong, or anything on which JK was correct.
Although, to be fair, technically key must have been correct on the legality of the KDC surveillance, given that he said “It was not illegal” and then said “Kim Dotcom was illegal under the old law”[…]. But I’m not sure that really counts, given theself-contradiction.
Again, nice transcript Karol, thanks.
I’d noticed that as well. Do you think that infused even understand the issues at all?
See a classic instance here
He appears to show no real understanding once you brush past the weak “We all know what he was implying here…” insinuations. I have no idea what either Key or infused is trying to describe most of the time because they imply without being explicit. Perhaps that they are too gutless to explain what they mean because then the inherent stupidity in whatever they says will be lovingly dissected?
Like “…was trying to imply with NSA/Prism/International spying that the govt could/world use these networks to get around our laws.” in which infused does another insinuation that he doesn’t describe. Well I can’t see *anything* in the current bill to stop them. It would have been prohibited under the old act for NZ residents, but the new bill removed that along with the prohibition against using the clear legal restriction on GCSB on against spying on residents.
Also this sidestepping of such local prohibitions through other country partners is currently a issue running in both the US courts and the legislature about clear instances where it has happened. So how exactly does Key want to assure us that it won’t happen? Infused clearly doesn’t know – he doesn’t explain it…..
Just another fool who has had his nose shoved lovingly up John Key’s jockstrap for so long that his brain has atrophied too much. renders him incapable of explaining anything….
Do you think that infused even understand the issues at all?
if s/he does, I don’t think they care. Probably genuinely believes that the only people who need worry are internet pedos, bearded hippies, and fiendish lefties (in no particular order of deservingness, either), not good tory lickspittles like them.
Off to bed now – fortunately I’m just more tired than disgusted/angry.
Yeah. It isn’t like we haven’t seen precisely the same stuff before.
Doing database work. Looks like it is running ok. Might head bedwards and get up later and have a look to see if it is finished. Thank Jobs for getting logitech to produce illuminated keyboards
For supposedly intelligent people I’m surprised you haven’t picked up on John Key’s point re Kim Dotcom.
The point he made was the the breach of the act that John Key apologised to Kim Dotcom over is not being touched by the changes being nade to it. Hence it was illegal then and will still be illegal under the new law. As such his case can’t be used to point out flaws in the new law.
I think that several people have mentioned it in this post’s comment. McFlock for one pointed out the discrepancy between that and two previous Key statements which were in conflict. So which John Key are we to believe – because clearly more than one of him is lying their arse off on that topic.
Another one that I picked up on was that Key appeared to think that metadata didn’t need to get collected all the time to be useful. That there was nothing in the bill that said it would not get collected as a matter of course and made accessible when required, and that he was foolishly conflating warrants to use information with the process of collecting information. He could have cleared it up in a second by saying the legislation explicitly forbade the holding of metadata unless it was part of an active warrant. But he seemed to think that it wasn’t required – probably because he was too confused about what his departments are already doing?
If the PM is so confused about the effect of this legislation, then I’m not surprised that you’re similarly mistaken. Or this may be because you aren’t intelligent enough to figure out the difference between a legal document and a posturing bullshitter?
You are mistaken if you think I am for this legislative change or are 100 percent supportive of the PM over this. I just don’t think this is the end of liberal democracy in NZ as some on the left are trying (and failing miserably to do) to make out.
@Gosman,
If profoundly important principles of ‘liberal democracy’ keep getting chipped away at and allowed to continue.
If such phenomenon is not viewed with the contempt that it requires to be in order to be stopped in its tracks, how do you draw the conclusion that ‘liberal democracy’ is not being endangered?
Karol, you’re a star!
I watched the interview and was struck by the difference between content and presentation. Key presented well and certainly worked the cuddly little teddy bear over. But then, I think that’s something to be borne in mind; that Campbell’s a cuddly little ‘feel good’ interviewer – not an adversarial scare monkey like a Paxman of old.
Shame that Campbell got irked and didn’t have the presence of mind to just sit back and smirk/scoff at the content of Key’s rather confident presentation. Anyways. All I meant to do was convey my thanks for going to the effort of transcribing the interview.
Yes, it struck me as a triumph of style over content, which is why I wanted to focus on the claims being made. Thanks, Bill.
“Karol, you’re a star!”
+1
Awesome work Karol.
I only watched the first 3 minutes or so and then had to turn it off or risk being ill at that smarmy fuck of a PM lying to the country, but I also thought Campbell was letting his frustration get the better of him.
+ 2
Yes, it struck me as a triumph of style over content,
That’s exactly what it was. Almost nobody listening, or reading ,who isn’t intimate with the Bill’s framework, will have been enlightened by Key’s performance. He was all over the place, none of it coherent.
All Key did was project confidence in his own mission, nothing else. As an act of clearing matters up (as he claimed his aim to be) he was an abject failure.
Performance of a consummate confidence trickster.
Key only presented well if you didn’t noticed how scared and desperate he looked.
How he didn’t actually address the issue that people are concerned about, how he used distraction and ad hominem type attacks (Campbell trying to scare people). He played the game of talking long and slowly about details that didn’t really add to informing us; I.e. using up interview time whilst adding very little to the discussion. Yes, he somewhat ‘took over’ the interview, yet why did he need to do this? Because he had nothing to say, no good arguments to justify this bill.
He wasted a good opportunity to let us know what the hell is going on with this bill.
He came across as a textor-crosby puppet boy who doesn’t give a damn about NZers rights and interests.
Nicky Hagar got the word right: Hollowman.
I feel the same when I read the actual lyrics of a song I may have really liked. Seeing them written down without the context and accompanying music or video shows them in a completely different light.
Pity Campbell didn’t challenge the “nine per year” line. How many since 2008?
Yes – good point. Because if you look at the transcript, Key says that they stopped spying on the 88 people when they realised there was a difficulty with the law. So there were 88 people (which then becomes deflated to 9) in the last few months.
Heh, lets name ’em then. Underwear sniffing is one thing, but the rest of us are not entitled to know whose was sniffed or for what purpose, let alone others in the distribution chanel–NSA?
There are real world implications from all this for people such as TPPA opponents to cite one group.
Muldoon did not shy off naming ’81 Springbok tour protesters with alleged leftist affiliations or the ‘gang of 32’ SUP–Socialist Unity Party members that the NZ Herald then ran on the front page.
The NZSIS Act 1969 and amendment Act 1977, and Privacy Act 1993 however usually allow the local snoops that hold files on New Zealanders to avoid naming people such as their still living ‘sources’ aka snitches and informants.
A few of us asked if we were on the list but the GCSB refused to say if we were or not. And the part of the Kitteridge Report that dealt with legal issues was suppressed. So we are having a debate about something and we do not know the detail or how we can limit the state’s power so that it can do what it has to but not what it wants to.
This sucks …
funny thats exactly the same scenario which held back the likes of Senator Wyden in the USA, up until the time Edward Snowden released his documents.
Its exactly the same situation restraining the founder of the Lavabits secure email service. He can’t even discuss with his lawyer what he knows about the requests the US Government has made of him and the implications for his (former) business and (former) clients.
Its total shit.
I don’t remember where the quote is from – but secrecy is anathema to democracy.
@ Tiger Mountain:
Let me assure you these snitches/informants can sometimes knowingly make false claims against an individual. They are motivated by malice or jealousy (or both) and yet they remain “protected” for years. A totally unjust state of affairs.
Yeah well, that was one of the thoughts i had. The misleading average was arrived at by Key pulling a number out of his arse (10) and dividing the 88 known illegal cases by that number. Eevn if Campbell had pointed out the bullshit methodology that Key was using….
Same with the preposterous claim that protecting IRD systems was akin to having an anti-virus when the concern is individuals (not institutions) being subjected to the beady eyes of GCSB.
Might have asked what was to prevent GCSB or whoever accessing info from keyscore and prism rather that lamely asking if they existed. But hey…retrospect is a smart arse thing and as I said above, Campbell simply isn’t an adversarial interviewer. (Heart’s in the right place, but that fcking cuddly niceness…)
It would be great to know what the pre/post ’08 split is.
That way we know how many Helen did.
What does it matter how many Helen did? Isn’t the point that this occurred the only thing that matters?
You sound like Key in the interview: “Yeah but Helen Clark did that too!!” Pathetic.
You seem to think that if Labour tried to introduce this law that standardistas would be supporting it. I can assure you that is not the case and not only that, if this law gets passed and Greens/Labour get in at the next election then I’ll put money on it that many here would be loudly complaining if they didn’t throw the law changes out.
Another stirling article – nice work 🙂
You sure do take a different view on what happened.
[lprent: My guess that you did this as a reply from a mobile. The reply functionality isn’t working correctly there, so you should reference who you are answering – at least until I get over the flu and find time to fix the bug. ]
“You sure do take a different view on what happened.”
Eh? The transcript looks accurate to me.
Or do you mean you get a different impression when you focus on what he actually said?
edit: sorry infused, just realised that was a reply to something specific.
Thanks Karol
Good work. I agree it was an impressive interview.
The confidence shown by Key was extreme and his simplification of the issues was really impressive.
But misplaced.
Key does not know what he is talking about. But many in the country will not believe this is the case.
Key doesn’t care. His job was to present himself as confident in his own side and dismissive of opponents. Content doesn’t really matter. Key’s job was to go one and treat Campbell with contempt and condescension in order to please his base, and it’s worked given today’s accounts.
John Key is not your enemy. It’s the people who vote for him.
Key certainly seemed ill-informed about the Bill and his own Committee’s recommended changes to the Bill.
For example, he twice mentioned that the GCSB, under the new Bill, could only provide advice and assistance to three agencies (SIS, Defence Force, Police). But that’s not correct and his Committee actually did one of its few major recommended changes to the fourth entity to expand it (see the downloadable post-Select Committee Bill here):
“(1) This function of the Bureau is to co-operate with, and provide advice and assistance to, the following for the purpose of facilitating the performance of their functions:
“(a) the New Zealand Police; and
“(b) the New Zealand Defence Force; and
“(c) the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service; and
“(d) any department (within the meaning of the Public Finance Act 1989) or part of any department or to a department but only in relation to a specified function or service performed or provided by the department specified for the purposes of this section by the Governor-General by Order in Council made on the recommendation of the Minister.”
That is, the GCSB is empowered to provide advice and assistance to any department or part of a department so long as there is an Order in Council to that effect.
We can argue over whether or not Key was ‘perceived’ as competent and on top of the information. But it is objectively clear that his account was not competent or a demonstration of the mastery of the details.
The Prime Minister owned John Campbell, just as he will own David Shearer in election debates.
Prime Minister, 10; Scaremonger, nil.
[lprent: Looks like simple trolling. Simple solution – a ban for a week. ]
When did John Campbell mention Al Qaeda?
I didnt notice either of them mention Al Qaeda.
Not this week, no.
🙄
Looked like a statement in fact to me.
[lprent: It just looked like an idiot jerking off to me. You may like splattered sperm dribbled out of an idiot just like that comment. I find it untidy and rather sticky and rather pointless and lacking life as soon as it was ejeculated and hit the page. Point to *anything* of worth in that comment and I’ll show you the stupidity in its decomposing ancestral DNA. Live bacteria carry more useful information.
Since I’m one of the site cleaners, and you merely pass through helping to splatter the walls with your poorly aimed habits, then your opinion is quite irrelevant. Read the policy. ]
[lprent: Just as an aside. I’m sure that infused might detect some insinuations that I’m making here. But I’m sure he can’t lay his suspicions out in public for fear that they may be examined in detail. Maybe someone needs to give him a books on bodily processes and the effects of excessive prudery on the libido. 😈 ]
What a charming fellow you are Lynn.
When Key spanked Cullen, it was just because of media training.
When Key spanked Clark, it was just because of media training.
When Key spanked Goff, it was just because of media training.
When Key spanked Campbell, it was just because of media training.
Key’s opponents should either
a) get some media training, because that shit obviously works; or
b) wake up to the fact that the spankings they’re getting from Key aren’t just because of media training
No, the left should keep up with the whole underestimating Keys intelligences and savvy because aprt from ensuring a National victory its quite amusing to see how deluded they can be
I am not sure that Key spanked any of those people…
Clark & Cullen – were on a hiding to nothing just on the grounds that they were the “tired old faces” – it is what happens in NZ after 3 terms – to get a fourth term is always something special. Maybe it is my memory fading, but I can’t remember any truly curb-stomp wins of Key over Clark – i always thought they were close run battles in the debates, the problem was that Clark needed to curb-stomp key if labour ever wanted a fourth term, and key is slick enough to avoid that.
Goff – some issues at public debates but still came within a seat of being PM, not really a spanking there.
Cambell – I thought last night that JC won the exchange – he managed to make Key talk himself in circles and JC still landed the killer blows.
Absolutely, Keys a light-weight and Shearer will have no problems showing how inept Key really is in the election debates
This site is such a hotbed of Shearer supporters I’m sure your biting sarcasm will have hit nerves all over the place.
/not
What an appropriate moniker You_Fool “I thought last night that JC won the exchange “…….here is what commentators had to say on Twitter:
@JohnJCampbell Raving is not interviewing, John. A graceless and embarrassing performance. This from your greatest fan. Brian
— Brian Edwards (@DrBrianEdwards) August 14, 2013
@toby_etc @damianchristie all I saw was a Prime Minister who was on fire. Have been through the entire Clark years and not seen such –
— wallacechapman (@wallacelchapman) August 14, 2013
@wallacelchapman @damianchristie yup formidable, close to flawless
— Toby Manhire (@toby_etc) August 14, 2013
@toby_etc @damianchristie It worked. The answers were substantively good, not just showy good. Except for the Norton AV analogy.
— Keith Ng (@keith_ng) August 14, 2013
This guy on Campbell Live is a PM who knows exactly what he’s doing. #GCSB
— Lew (@LewSOS) August 14, 2013
Nailed it. Still not voting for him. But he was good. #johnkey
— The Ruminator (@RuminatorNZ) August 14, 2013
The “OMG-were-you-watching-the-same-interview-he-was-talking-so-much-shit” response is partly why we keep losing elections #CampbellvsKey
— Morgan Godfery (@MorganGodfery) August 14, 2013
@MorganGodfery The left persistently underestimates Key. There’s lots to not like, but stupid he ain’t
— Brenda Pilott (@PSAsecretary) August 14, 2013
@mokai77 It was a masterclass in political communication and strategy. Few interviewers or politicians can hold a candle to Key.
— Morgan Godfery (@MorganGodfery) August 14, 2013
I am truly surprised by some of those comments.
Shows what a pack of wallies we have in media circles.
You’d think that any self-respecting media commentator would have commented on the actual value of the information from John Key, rather than trying to score the interview like a boxing fight.
@ Geoff
Exactly!
Key could teach a master class in bullshit artistry. Talking until the Eskimos believe they really need to buy ice is Key’s specialty – his natural ability has been finely honed through years in the international financial world. He wouldn’t have needed much media training by the time he came to politics.
Good on JC for having a go, but anyone who underestimates Key gets taught a lesson.
Yeah the lesson is, if you get into a fight with a (rightwing) pig, be prepared to get covered in shit.
Campbell’s pretty much into bullshit too, if it suits his agenda.
One example – he has his reporters running around the country conducting a ‘poll’ on NZders attitudes to spying and the GCSB bill.
Except its not a poll, its a petition…..if its even that. It has less statistical rigour than if the numbers were pulled out of hat by a blind person.
It suits Campbell to call it a poll because he can spin greater credibility around this exercise. It bullshit to use your phrase.
[lprent: Please remember your handle. Whenever you change it deliberately or accidently, then a moderator has to exert themselves to release the new handle – after checking it against the current list of the banned. Eventually we dispose of the problem. So please take care of your name. Consider this a gentle warning. ]
@ SHG…agreed it is not just a question of media training
…some people you cant argue or debate with because they are not operating honestly ….winning is all they care about…… they do not care about dealing with the issues honestly and for the good of all.
….however it is not just a question of giving someone a spanking either……most people I think will see through the way Key operates
What Labour needs is a leader with integrity and the smarts who can take Key head- on… honestly…. and show him up …..and win!….that is David Cunliffe
“….however it is not just a question of giving someone a spanking either……most people I think will see through the way Key operates”
Nah, I think most people will go “wow, that John Key sure seems charming and intelligent and that person he’s arguing with is getting so flustered and rude and angry… that John Key, what a nice man, I think I’ll vote for him”
@ SHG …well you are welcome….personally i am looking forward to John Key getting a spanking!
I don’t think anyone watched that interview thought Key came across as a “nice man”.
Most of the people cheering him on seem to be saying precisely the opposite.
@ felix …and he is getting uglier
Key’s opponents should either
a) get some media training, because that shit obviously works; or
b) wake up to the fact that the spankings they’re getting from Key aren’t just because of media training
Problem is, most people still have ethics. We’re not talking about media training in the sense of how to present one’s case credibly and how to respond well to challenges to that in a way that looks good. We’re talking about training in professional level lying and spin that is designed to deceive the nation and further an agenda that is stripping democracy from the people. We’re still a fair way from Nazi Germany, but try applying your argument that Key’s ‘media training’ is valid to Hitler and see how it holds up.
(and no, there is no need to incorrectly invoke Godwin, but if someone wants to come up with another comparison it would be apprecitated)
Hi Karol,
An impressive amount of work. One of the problems of transcripts of televsion interviews is that every little “hum” and “ha” gets the same emphasis as a complete sentence. Nuance, and tone gets lost.
As viewers, we tend to tune little missteps out. Now because I am in Singapore I have not seen the interview (but I will do so online), but all reports indicate it went well for John Key.
Now I clearly would not expect him to convince Standard commenters, anymore than I do. Though I do hope that readers here do see I do take a considered approach, even though I have a different view on things to many here, but then I always like debate.
However on TV (as oppossed to the blogs) the PM reaches middle NZ, not just the partisans. The test for the PM will be how they reacted. Did he properly cover the issues that they have read about in the newspaper and seen reported on TV and radio. Are there safeguards, etc. I suspect the PM is on strong ground when he can point to Court of Appeal judges being involved in the process. NZers intuitively know that such people are not in the pocket of the PM.
And one of the things that successful Prime Ministers can do is read what midde NZ thinks is fair. In her prime Helen Clark could do that at an impressive level, and thus far John Key has done that as well, now for 5 years. It is no point Standardnistas attacking middle NZers, better to understand them, since that is where elections are won.
If you call lying, cheating, misrepresenting, playing fast and loose with the matter in hand, talking over the top of his interviewer non-stop, slyly defaming well placed individuals (Helen Clark, Geoffrey Palmer, Bruce Ferguson to name just three) as properly covering the issues then… yes he did.
Considered thoughtful reflection, unlike most here. Whether you like the message or not, the reality is Campbell got spanked. That’s what advocacy journalism deserves. Don’t become the story
Sean Plunket beat up on JC this morning was hilarious. And not a tweet today from the man himself.
Meanwhile Key is back to running the country – juts what middle NZ expects
That’s not how you spell “ruining”.
Such a negative nelly, at least give him credit for getting “juts” right.
I prefer that an interview is not a gladiatorial contest with a winner and a loser. I prefer that it is an event that casts light on a matter of importance. Key performed “well” but cast no light on the subject. The interview was therefore a failure.
Totally agree. Key’s argument is that the GCSB is the govt designed anti-virus program is shear sophistry designed to allow him to not have to substantiate his case for infringing the civil liberties of the people.
It is true though. I have an email from the GCSB about this very thing before all of this exploded.
Not to mention that he should be done for copyright violation. I’m sure that one of the leaders who invented that torrid analogy to cover ubiquitous surveillance will want it back. Who does own the intellectual property for the Stasi?
As a side point, my understanding is that the appeal court is not involved, but that the oversight is from an appointed retired judge, appointed by the PM – so the appointment can be swayed – or picked to be a mate.
If judicial oversight is important, why not have the warrants and oversight come straight from the appeal/supreme court?
You_Fool
I do realise they are retired judges, but my point about impartiality still holds, and would be seen as such by the viewers. Sir Bruce Robertson is a highly regarded judge and was a former President of the Law Commission.
As for the broader point about who should grant the warrants. Prime Ministers are involved because the issues invariably relate to national security. Often no NZ law has been broken (or it would be difficult to bring a prosecution), as in NZers training in Yemen, or people in NZ funding the LTTE, as occurred some years ago. But it is essential to know the networks and overseas contacts that these people have. Remember the LTTE bombed people in countries other than Sri Lanka.
So SIS and GCSB warrants are not criminal matters like normal crime where no national security issues are at stake. The pattern is to have retired judges essentially review the warrants granted by the PM. The numbers of warrants also get reported to parliament. The effect of both of these “checks” is to prevent abuses of power. The Bill strengthens the review process.
Stop trying to defend this piece of legislation Wayne. You know as well as we do that there should be no legislation until we’ve had a full and independent inquiry. That is normal practice in controversial situations. It is vitally important that NZ gets this Bill right given the massive technological advances in intelligence gathering. There is a fine line between gathering intelligence for security purposes (most people recognise this as an essential part of good governance) and snooping on the lives of innocent people simply because they may hold a different political viewpoint – or something similar. The consequences for individuals who have been subjected to irrational and illicit snooping practices can be extremely damaging, and the fallout from it can last a long time.
You also know as well as we do that the PM’s ‘activity’ in this area is really all about covering up for the mind bogglingly inept f—k-up that was the Dotcom affair. Unfortunately for Key, Kim Dotcom clearly has evidence on him which he will use next year during his extradition hearing, so all the covering up in the world will do no more than buy him a bit more time.
FFS this blind faith by so many on the left on a German multi millionaire attention whore really does bend my faith in the left activist base.
What blind faith? Kim Dotcom said he was illegally spied on, and it turned out to be the case. The GCSB illegally spied on him. Please keep up.
The fact that it’s a retired judge is almost irrelevant. The fact that it’s a retired judge picked by Key is highly relevant. Anyone involved with the justice system knows what a judge’s record is, how likely they are to believe police lies, how much weight they put on civil liberties, and so on. I doubt very much if a judge who fits into the category of “those civil liberty people” will be chosen, even though that’s arguably exactly the type we would need.
I would pick its because its a near full time job and they dont want anyone distracted by other work. You cant exactly pull a Judge out of a 6 week trial to go and swot up on a security risk beforr signing off (or refusing to) on a warrant can you?
I have now seen the interview, and yes John Key was impressive. He had clear points which he got across in a calm and considered manner.
As I thought the transcript does not show that, because it provides no context. It also gives the same emphasis to all the little interruptions etc, which in many cases you can barely hear since the viewers attention is to whoever has “the floor” at the relevant moment.
And having read the Bill in detail, including the proposed amendments, I think the PM does a pretty good job of explaining the main points. Sir Bruce and Sir Geoffrey were largely focused on process. Expected from Sir Geoffrey, but Sir Bruce needs reminding that virtually all 88 incidents occurred on his watch.
Mind you I would also note that Sir Bruce was a careful custodian of the powers of GCSB. I know many here think that GCSB was out of control, but you can surely see that Sir Bruce did not indulge in some completely over the top programme of generally surveilling NZers. You had to be in a pretty specific category for that to occur (and no, Penny Bright, Sir Bruce was not worried about your non payment of rates or your “anti corruption” mission). But people training in Yemen would have been of interest.
Anne, now I know you are not a fan of the PM, but where was he “lying, cheating, misrepresenting, playing fast and loose”. In fact he was careful ,measured and stuck to the facts. A TV interview is not a 40 minute lecture to a law class. You have to use analogies like Norton etc.
And as for interrupting JC or talking over the top, well in my experience with him (actual), you have to do that because he interrupts so much or sends you down some tangential aspect of the issue. But he is always entertaining and enthusiastic, which TV demands.
You have to use analogies like Norton etc.
You’ve answered your own question.
You’re hopelessly deluded Wayne. Thought you might overcome it once you got out of the Beehive.
Analogies shouldn’t be deceptive Wayne. That’s not to say they can’t be effective if they are deceptive of course, it just depends on what you are trying to effect.
As you say, there isn;t time to get into details in an i/v. Which is why deceptive analogies can be so effective.
When Key talked about the GCB needing 140,000 people to analyse everyone in NZ’ calls, or whatever his precise formulation was, that was deceptive and false.
The NSA employs around that number and collects and analyses data from much of the world. The primary analysis, (particularly of metadata, but also of content), is done by computers. It is grossly misleading to say that the GCSB would need 140K employees to do what people are concerned about. To get to his point, he misrepresented what people’s fears are (made it sound like it was just about agents literally listening to phone calls in real time), and used that misrepresentation for his reductio of 140K agents needed. Which is false, as much of the analysis would be done by algorithms. Key’s argument is like arguing that google must employ millions of people to answer the questions people type into the query box.
Others have said today that he was wrong about saying the GCSB wouldn’t be able to look at content when doing ‘assistance’ work, and that his assurances are not reflected in the bill, even though they could be, if he wanted to:
http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-fluency-ease-of-manner-and-norton/?p=291951#post291951
The claims about the moral worth of any particular individuals being appointed completely miss the point, frankly. This is about the process, not a particular instance of the process.
Yeah keep ignoring the big picture Wayne. Just like Key does. Xkeyscore? Prism?
What is NZ’s involvement in that?
You completely ignore the global context that the Snowden revelations created and you do so because you know that the National party is in the pocket of the US and John Key is trying to hide that from us.
David Cunliffe
[lprent: Looks like simple trolling. Simple solution – a ban for a week. ]
I emailed Campbell Live earlier today. To my surprise I received a reply from John Campbell in person. Not only did he thank me for my message but the tone of the words he used were open and natural. He showed what appeared to me to be sincere appreciation.
I think he’s been having a hard time of it today which is unfair. He’s not responsible for a lying, corrupt, psychopathic prime minister.
Agree Anne JC gave it a good go, he is not the problem, but what are you going to do against a sociopath taking into account the obvious? my partner and I expressed in our home how we would have reacted to the lying, rug wearing, flabby assed excuse for a 21st century PM.
But he is responsible for a crap interview
True but he was outplayed at a game he should have been better prepared for and had a plan B and C up his sleeve. After goading him to come on the show and all the vox pop’s filling up airtime about the bill JK came out and delivered in true hollowman style.
JC is responsible for getting answers and exerting control it is his show. A smile from JC with a ‘you still haven’t answered my question ‘ repeat question’ again and again and focus on why Palmer/Salmond/Law society are not experts till JK goes all shruggy or plays the snapper card.
JK came prepared and performed as his backers demand whereas JC brought knives to a gunfight.
Interesting to note Campbell Live was not advised until 4pm yesterday afternoon that John Key was going to front up at 7pm. Playing games right to the end. Roll over Muldoon, Nixon et al, you’ve been outclassed in the snake in the grass routine.
Yeah, Key will have had a couple of days to prepare for this.
Game, Set, Match, Key
[lprent: Looks like simple trolling. Simple solution – a ban for a week. ]
Really? Are you clairvoyant? I think not. We’ve only had one game thus far. Few more to go, then there’s the set and finally the match late next year.
If the election were to be held tomorrow and today’s John Key debated today’s David Shearer on television tonight, National would win in a landslide.
But the election is not being held tomorrow. And anything can happen between now and when it is.
Yes, in terms of the interview with JC and the whole GCSB debate to be frank.
Time for David Shearer to start focusing on housing.
ShonKey’s minders may be worried when he actually turns up at TV3. The sooner he scarpers off back to Hawaii with his bankster mates (on stolen land no less, as some locals have expressed) the better for this country. It is amazing the torrent of tory shit one appearance from your dear leader has provoked given his hundreds of previous media no shows during his term.
What a flabby, rug wearing wimp, happier to hang out with woman bashers–Vietchie and racists–Deaker, than debate real issues in even a semi genuine manner with Campbell.
Harsh!
Sorry, that’s just how I saw it. I probably only post once or twice a week so no harm done.
[lprent: I’m like that – I like debate rather than simple assertions. It always pays to say *why* you see something a particular way. I generally don’t ban those who explain. They’re adding to debate. But simple one liners that sound like slogans don’t. If I see too many responding to the post like that, then I start discouraging the behaviour. ]
The “hurt” is strong in the left today. Key owned Campbell and everyone here knows it. The irony of calling Key a master of spin is palpable with the attempts by posters here to blame Key for he crime of being prepared. A bit sad that Campbell came across as desperate, never a good look.
Campbell was prepared. He had answers, but, as Blue says. Key talked louder, and was master of diversion.
for instance:
1) Key on polling: 49% remains the same int heir latest poll. But that is just total Nat support – not Key’s personal rating, and doesn’t say anything about the criticisms Key may have got in the poll. i was interested that the Nats have polls every Monday & Tuesday.
2) Saying that Key needed to rush the bill because they’d stopped spying on the 88, and
That’s old spin, and Campbell was rightly skeptical.
3) Pitching people’s criticisms as being about them being afraid of being spied on, when only a minority get spied upon – ignores the whole 5 Eyes metadata capability; implies that the 88 (deflated to 9 people) are terrorists developing weapons of mass destruction.
It was hard to get criticisms in edgeways. And, even if only 9 people are spied upon – no-one knows who those are. It could be the likes of Jon Stephenson, being critical of the government. It acts as a dampener on democracy and critical debate – panopticon effect.
Another issue is that the latest GCSB Bill is extended the GCSB powers into “economic security”.
Being prepared does not mean “louder” it just means being prepared Karol. Perhaps Shearer could try it. You know that Campbell’s modus operadi is to shout down disagreement and allow only half answers before he interrupts. He was hoisted….and lost.
It could only be John Stephenson if someone had managed to convince Paul Neazor he was a threat. I think that unlikely.
John Key is full of shit, that much was obvious last night. The only reason he “won” the interview was because he talked louder. John Campbell should have used Key’s tactic and cut him off instead of letting him carry on dancing around the questions.
No the reason Key won the interview was he was both better prepared and vastly superior in a debate with a journalist who should be better at a job he is paid more than the salary of the PM for.
A few days ago Key was arrogantly dismissing the possibility of appearing on Campbell Live. Then suddenly here he is. I wonder if it could have anything to do with the snapper video going viral? Damage control.
I thought Key put on a confident and prepared performance. I can see why the RWNJs are claiming victory. But his arguments were empty. Norton anti-virus? It doesn’t matter if I came by car or coach? What? All I heard from Key was “Trust me”. No thanks ‘Slippery John’ ‘The Smiling Assassin’.
Note that what he refused to talk about was the link with the US, which is embroiled in massive spying on the public revelations left and right.
I highly recomend this link. It’s an interview with the owner of an email encryption service that Edward Snowden was using who shut down his whole operation rather than comply with what the NSA was demanding of him. He’s under a gag order about what that was, under threat of jail.
“There’s information that I can’t even share with my lawyer, let alone with the American public. So if we’re talking about secrecy, you know, it’s really been taken to the extreme, and I think it’s really being used by the current administration to cover up tactics that they may be ashamed of,” he said.
“If you knew what I know about e-mail, you might not use it either.”
For most people, this interview will confirm their existing biases and opinions, one way or the other. Fair enough. But what about those might be in the middle or on the fence on this issue? What they would have seen is that John Key was in control and John Campbell wasn’t. They would have seen JK argue his case without notes and JC appear frustrated and at times flustered. I would argue that for most disinterested viewers, JK spanked JC. Many here disagree. But perception is what matters. Heck, I am old enough to remember Bill Rowling and the total mis-match between his manner on TV (perception) versus the reality of the guy. And we know how that ended. This interview will have confirmed in many people’s minds that JK is the preferred PM and a formidable debater. Those who believe JK is liar will believe that even more so after watching this interview. But I’m afraid that the people who matter most, i.e. those in the middle or swinging voters, JK convincingly won the day.
“Those who believe JK is liar will believe that even more so after watching this interview.”
Key: “I probably have half a dozen meetings a day with public”
Yep.
Point made for tinshed brilliantly.
“But I’m afraid that the people who matter most, i.e. those in the middle or swinging voters,”
Hey sunshine what gives you the fucking right to speak for me. I could be one of your perceived “middle” people but what makes you think I matter “most” than some unfortunates who are in a less fortunate position.
In the immortal words of CGW John Key “smashed ’em bro!”
John Campbell might want to consider the old adage of be careful what you wish for…he wanted JK on his show, called him out and JK turned up and gave Campbell a taste of his own medicine
Oh dear another trump card of the left nullified by JK…
Cullen
Clark
Goff
Campbell
Whos next? Oh right Shearer…
Be interesting to see if Campbell mentions his sore bottom tonight (from the previous nights spanking :))
I’m guessing you left school at 15. How else to account for your moronic comments?
Campbell’s barrow has lost its wheels.
[lprent: Simple trolling. Simple solution – a ban for a week. ]
I do not look forward to a time when the ShonKey Python suckers who so crowingly write on this site will be regarded in the same light as those from history who ignored, ignored, ignored. Essentially in service variously of personal vanity, cargo-cultism, and greed.
There is one worthy man who can ensure in 2014 that such a time never arrives. We all know his name.
We do indeed, North!
Valdemort ?
It seems that in order to beat key in a face to face you would have to lower yourself to his particularly low level of what you might call debate. This in itself would be hard for any intelligent articulate debater to do as key has no obstacles in his so called debates because he is morally bankrupt and has no scruples in the methods he uses. I am really sad now to see people subjected to keys particular, one might say peculiar brand of debating. Watching him last night make an absolute tit of himself I was mortified that he is our pm. Today the cries are all “who can beat key!” It’s all very gladiatorial. We should be more worried about the fact that key will never front up and give clear, concise, constructive reasoning for his side of the debate. When are we going to ask of key to actually answer questions that are asked of him as an adult and not as some badly performing, semi intelligent comedian. His MO is to attack the person as this invariably brings about the perfectly human response to defend themselves which leaves them wide open to more personal attacks which changes the whole direction of the encounter. The sad thing about key is that he truly believes everything he reads about himself which feeds his inherently cruel and nasty nature. One thing that stands out with him is that he has absolutely no good manners at all. He uses the fact that other people are brought up with good manners as they will not override him in his shouting them down.
It is time a real New Zealander was put back in charge, not some little puppet that will spout and enable anything to happen in NZ if his strings are pulled.
lol
“This in itself would be hard for any intelligent articulate debater to do as key has no obstacles in his so called debates because he is morally bankrupt and has no scruples in the methods he uses”
Good observation Chrissy.
Dr Robert Hare notes that it’s very difficult to win an argument with a pychopath. They are natural debaters, and they have in instinctive grasp of the skillful usage of distraction, too much information and fallacies which take time and congitive effort to counter which are often both unavailable in the heat of battle.
Plus they have another big advantage, they can always just lie or make something up. There is usually not time in an argument to go and check ‘facts’ that are thrown up. By the time someone subsequently does, the argument is long finished, and the observer is left with the impression that the psychopath made a point that the other couldn’t answer.
“This in itself would be hard for any intelligent articulate debater to do as key has no obstacles in his so called debates because he is morally bankrupt and has no scruples in the methods he uses”
Good observation Chrissy.
Dr Robert Hare notes that it’s very difficult to win an argument with a pychopath. They are natural debaters, and they have in instinctive grasp of the skillful usage of distraction, too much information and fallacies which take time and congitive effort to counter which are often both unavailable in the heat of battle.
Plus they have another big advantage, they can always just lie or make something up. There is usually not time in an argument to go and check ‘facts’ that are thrown up. By the time someone subsequently does, the argument is long finished, and the observer is left with the impression that the psychopath made a point that the other couldn’t answer.
Oh FFS don’t you realise that calling key a psychopath is tantamount to waving the white flag.
Just accept that Campbell was an unmitigated fucking disaster last night – for someone who earns over 500k per annum his effort at interviewing and holding Key to account was a fucking disgrace.
Or we could, you know, talk about whatever we like. Is that ok with you?
Yeah go for it………….have a crank in the corner if you want.
I get that you’re angry.
But no-one here is under any obligation to “just accept” any of your opinions, no matter how strongly you hold them.
I don’t think felix gets a big say on who is allowed to comment here. This is more of an anyone can say what they like if they back it up with at least a semi-coherent argument kind of place.
You’ll see that there are lots of different opinions here. You might disagree with some of them. But the ol’ “stop saying that,” probably won’t go down so well.
There are even concern tr0lls about. So how did you come up with that handle leftbutnotdeluded? Do tell.
Makes me laugh when I see concern trolls (or anyone) coming in with a job lot of sticky labels saying “Labour”, “Green”, “Treehugger”, “Unionist”, “Bleeding Heart”, “Socialist”, Commie”, “Neolib” or whatever and expecting everyone to conform to their simplistic ideas of how people here should act or think.
Most of the time you’d think that they imbued it about the time that they were reading “See Spot run” – probably accurate. It is also amusing watching how commenters here seem to take it in succession to slice them from all of their various directions – and virtually only ever poke holes in their almost religious presumptions. Intellectual simplistic labelling bigotry doesn’t really equip them to deal with people who think kiddie rules are just so amusing to torture with.
No-one can be adequately described by any single label after they have left their childhood (ie past their twenties 😈 ) and everyone gets more and more complex until they start hitting their second childhood.
Personally I like to see verbal blood lapping against the walls of a post and people desperately trying to defend their strange and rigid bigotries from people who have already seen those arguments a few thousand times before… They probably invented some of them when they were younger. Education of the thickest – always nice to see.
Educate the perpetrators fast and painfully enough that they don’t try it again. Then move on to arguing about new material….
“I don’t think felix gets a big say on who is allowed to comment here”
lolz! A cat can dream…
ShonKey exhibits many of the key, heh, indicators of a “sociopath” big difference. What about the space every nite for show upon show when John Campbell has said “the Prime Minister was invited but declined”. Says more than he did last nite, it is known as manipulation and manufacturing consent.
First, I didn’t call Key a psychopath. (Not in this comment anyway.) I was just observing that he does have a lot in common with their style of arguing. Which certainly doesn’t by itself make him one, but there it is.
However I have been calling John Key a sociopath, (subtle difference, some say there is none), on this blog for a long, long time before the Campbell interview.
Second, while I’d agree that Key ‘won’ this round, I do think ‘unmitigated fucking disaster’ isn’t fair. Having said that, I think Campbell underestimated his opponent, and should have been better prepared with questions that got the heart of the real issues.
Someone on here said that Key only confirmed he was coming on 3 hours before the show aired. He was probably getting his lines straight all day while Campbell had to scramble.
Well stated, Chrissy. Any interviewer is at a disadvantage with someone like Key because he is a morally bankrupt psychopath. If they call him that, they lose. If they let him get away with his behaviour, they lose. He is a cancer on the political landscape.
However, political wars are not won in television interviews. The opposition have a number of leaders who can attack Key effectively. Hone will call it as he sees it, the Green leadership are strong on facts and policy, and even Winnie can score hits. And Labour has Shearer. Oops.
I think Campbell should have asked for a yes or no answer: “Is it acceptable for the government to spy on the phone calls or texts or emails ot opposition MPs such as Winston Peters?” And of investigative journalists?
I think he should have asked for a white flag…
The response from the right is interesting, painting Key as some sort of gladiator fighting off a series of opponents.
I kind of know what they mean, but not being a hero-worshipper I thought the interview showed that Key is very good at not answering.
Why is that considered a “win”? And why is that a desirable quality in a PM?
He didn’t do anything else apart from not answer the questions. If you read the transcript, he didn’t impart any new information, and he didn’t show that any of Campbell’s information was wrong.
I mean these as serious questions if any righties would like to explain their feelings.
As a serious leftie I’m more concerned at the delusion of those on our side about what actually happened last night and what our plan is to counteract Key in the media and in parliament otherwise we’re going to be well fucked going into the next election although at least that means my party can become the lead opposition and labour can fuck right off.
+1
Hi leftbutnotdeluded.
Perhaps you should re-read my comment after you’ve calmed down. I’m trying to spark exactly the sort of conversation you claim to want to have.
He answered the questions buddy, which is why JC had a bloody fit on air. It wasn’t the answers he wanted.
Could you demonstrate by pointing to one of the questions and his answer please?
Have a bit of pity for the cold little husk, this sort of “win” will be the only cold cheer to enter the horror behind those sad, defeated eyes. From the days before the media truth blanket:
One of Key’s own MPs thinks there is another, perhaps less ingratiating, element also propelling him toward the 9th floor of the Beehive. Speaking on condition of anonymity the MP says Key seems to harbour a deep instinct to be the most important guy in the room. Generally now that he is leader, he is exactly that. But if an outsider comes in who might challenge that status, Key is said to almost physically transform to take up the challenge.
And of course he “won” in the eyes of his brutish sycophants. This is the undisputed champion of the tory contest: the product of a lifetime’s training in the most vicious arena of all. Lies? Obfuscation? Meaningless verbal inanity? Merely some of the modern tools of the trade for any professional thug.
One insider says Key has a pet saying of “whatever it takes” – it is his indication to a caucus member that he just wants something to be done, find a way to do it.
It’s the tools we don’t know about – yet – that will finish this sad wee bully.
You’ve got to admire the corporate singlemindedness. The Left is ‘left’ running around in confused circles, not knowing which way to turn, in a maze of Key’s framing.
ak.
Awesome comment. That behaviour of kneecapping possible chalengers is exactly why Labout is in the shit its in now. Helen could not and would not let any future leader grow into a real leader.
Key will win in ’14 and retire soon after with multiple future leaders in the waiting.
I watched the programme last night and in no way thought John Key ‘won’ the interview. Indeed no one I have spoken to has came to that conclusion. But then I’m not a member of the corporate media and commentariat who have a vested interest in spinning such stories.
Yes… Key span and span and avoided answering a lot of questions, but he came over as dishonest, , bullying, evasive and arrogant. Well, I guess if that is the style some people like, such as the diehard neoliberals who come to this site to obstruct discussion, then that says a lot about them as people.
Personally, I found the content and style of people such as Palmer, Salmond and Ferguson far more convincing and trustworthy.
+1 Paul
+1
Again, what the hell were you watching? Shortland street on the other channel?
He answered the questions. A lot of the questions were the same questions asked a different way, or simply stupid questions.
JC’s problem was he was trying to bait key, every, single, time. JK didn’t fall for it.
Obviously not what you were watching.
But, as you are a regular repeater of the propaganda spun by this government, why would you stop now?
infused, you said more or less the same thing earlier and I asked if you could demonstrate by pointing to one of the questions he answered.
I note that you still haven’t done so, despite the transcript being available at the top of this very page.
He won’t. He’s here to bait and develop the meme.
I’ve been pre-occupied tonight.
I’ve already stated, the NSA/Prism questions at the end. Stupid and irrelevant. He only went there because he ran out of material.
Here:
JK: OK Me right
JC: So you and a person that you have appointed sign the warrant.
JK: OK. Let’s take the first step back. [karol: a sign of a Key diversion when he is under pressure] Sir John Jeffreys was actually appointed by Helen Clark. His just retiring.
JC: Absolutely.
First bait, which key quickly nailed. We all know what he was implying here, key called him on it.
Karols comments are silly. He wasn’t under pressure, he was about to take JC to task.
Just like at the end, JC was trying to imply with NSA/Prism/International spying that the govt could/world use these networks to get around our laws.
He saw that coming a mile away.
Sorry infused, I don’t see how that makes the point you think it does at all.
What is it that we “all know” he was implying? Campbell pointed out that Key would be signing the warrants and appointing the other person who signs the warrants. Key confirmed that this is true.
Is that really your example? Campbell asserts a fact and Key confirms it?
Wow, I see why you’re so impressed now.
I watched the interview with a lefty mate. I’m a fan of JK, you all know this. I thought he came across well, mostly. He dominated JC, in my view. My lefty mate (MLM) thought he bullied and lied his way through. Cue argument. Unfortunately, nothing of substance was debated. Rightly or wrongly, this was the tone of the interview too. Nothing of substance was debated. But JK came across as more measured and prepared than JC. Therefore JK won. If JC had stuck to his guns rather than trying potshot JC, the outcome may have been very different.
“Unfortunately, nothing of substance was debated. Rightly or wrongly, this was the tone of the interview too. Nothing of substance was debated.”
Pretty much. Not for lack of trying, but I didn’t get the impression Key was there to discuss substance.
What do you mean by “potshot”? Is there an example in the transcript you can point me to?
I think the point you need to consider is whether you want some government gremlin snooping through your hard drive or collecting your metadata. If that’s OK with you then you win, if not you and everyone else in this country looses.
Its not about personalities its about policy.
Look at the bill maybe and comment again.
John Campbell just gave a big serve to the rest of the media for their failure to cover the story.
Good on him; also reitirated how long they’ve been running the story and how many times Key dodged the issue.
Yeah Campbell’s OK. Potty Gower and DungCan Gooner aren’t worth shit compared to him. No soul either of them. Tinsel. Until, having licked arse sufficiently reliably, Mr Weird Fellow and Mr Rugby Boy respectively end up REALLY part of the story, if only vicariously. As someone’s chief-of-staff or something. Hurry the day. Potty and Judith and DungCan and Gerry. Good fit ? On looks alone, surely ?
JC needed a dozen pithy quotes from the Law Commission, from the other experts, from Labour, and needed to hold Key to a solid response on each one. Letting Key run his fictional narrative doesn’t work; you have to break the flow of the narrative with nitty gritty (but important) detail, whether about substance or process.
Re: the 88 – “were any of those 88 picked either MPs, commercial or news media targets Prime Minister” that kind of stuff, and knowing that Key will not answer, followed up by
“would you agree Prime Minister that it would be completely inappropriate, illegal in fact, for the GCSB to spy on a NZ Member of Parliament, or member of the NZ news media?”
Kim Hill showed how this corporate puppet can be exposed.
Paul you and I can see this but can the public at large? Especially when they are fed a diet of lies and half truths by the majority of the mainstream media in this country.
JK would not be able to answer that first question obviously. He dosent know how many of the people that Helen spied upon were media.
JK knows all the names, he’s seen the reports on the illegal spying.
Citation for that?
I would doubt that JK would have wanted to know that stuff unless it involved an ongoing threat. Its not as tho he dosent have enough to do without extra bedtime reading.
Really, what threat and where’s your evidence? I’m going to start laughing if you rabbit on about terrorist bogeymen…..
Sable, huh?
Glad you can read……
If Key hasn’t seen the reports on who was illegally spied upon, it means that he is being negligent of his Intelligence portfolio and not taking the duty of Ministerial oversight seriously.
So which is it mate? Has Key seen the list of names, or is he negligent? You decide.
Why would he go back over work that has already been done and has no relevance to the future?
As I said, I would be very surprised if he read thru the files of “50” people spied upon by Helen unless they are an ongoinmg threat.
Do you have any proof that Key knew any of the names of those “50” people ?
You gullible fool DavidC but you’re not the only one.
Why do you think he put his old school mate into the top GCSB job? So that he misses nothing – when, where, how and most importantly WHO…
Its not uncommon for a PM to install someone they are comfortable with. Helen did it in ’99 with the very left leaning Jefferies and Key actually kept him on for 4 or 5 years.
Ah yes I remember that, it was quite similar. Helen had known Jefferies since their school days, was very close to his brother, and their mothers were best friends.
More recently they had kept in touch, dining together several times, although Helen flat out lied and changed her story when asked about that.
She also went outside of the usual process and discarded all other applicants, hand-picking her lifelong friend ahead of several more highly qualified people (she lied and changed her story when asked about that too).
Ok, now back in reality-land…
I see what you did there hahaha 🙂
the PM chose an old school mate who is a corporate lackey who has no intel experience or credibility.
Whether you are “comfortable” with that is beside the point.
Holy snap
Agree, CV one would have been tempted to go hard out on the dirty filthy US representative that masquerades as NZ Prime Minister. Or at least some of us would, but Campbell needs to keep his earner and fair enough when he is compared to the likes of the simpering John Armstrong etc.
The tory tea baggers here are getting tiresome though. It is one miserly interview among hundreds dodged. Woohoo.
Yeah Tiger it was just one interview. But remind me again when last did a Labour leader put on such a show? ’03? “04?
and that is the problem you have.
No one is denying the problem mate.
well look at the bans handed out on this thread, it looks at tho lprent may think denial is a river in Africa 🙂
The Labour Leader is not up to a TV debate with John Key. Everyone knows it. No one denies it.
lprent gets to ban whomever he likes, he’s the Sysop.
The reason for those bans was obvious – the commenters did nothing but say “My team won, your team lost, nyah nyah!” which is simply pointless trolling. And childish to boot.
If Lynn was banning on the basis of content and denying right wing nuttery a voice, how come he hasn’t banned you?
Good question weka. If lprent wants to shut down all debate why not just ban everyone from the other side. Then if would be just like Redalert or Frogblog, A blog of sycophantic navel gazing.
Ah and weka, I am still waiting on a reply to my question.. How safe is safe if its not 100%? I will allow you to discount alien lazers from your calculation.
[lprent: what “debate”? They were all top level comments that made an assertion without explanation. It is a trolling behavior.
“Other side”? You are quite unobservant or too lazy to read. I did four mods with 3 bans. Tricledrown is a distinctly left, one I have no idea about, and two right – one of which was a friendly warning..
If you want to make assertions about my behavior, then it pays to get them right because I really can’t be bothered explaining to often to lazy fools – especially ones who whjo seem to prefer to lie. See the section in the policy about wasting moderator time. ]
Hey keep taking the piss out of lprent, do us all a favour.
Just what I was thinking.
“Ah and weka, I am still waiting on a reply to my question.. How safe is safe if its not 100%? I will allow you to discount alien lazers from your calculation.”
But I asked first, multiple times. Put up some evidence to back up your assertions and I will engage again. And please take the conversation back to that thread.
+1
Maybe Iprents just tired of sarcasm taking the place of logical argument David….No point in barking if you can’t bite old son….
So all you want are bread and circus’s David? No substance, no worthwhile, logically justifiable and lets not forget democratic laws? Not hard to see how a shallow creature like Keys might appeal to you.
Personally I’m not convinced Key’s is an especially good public speaker. Clarke ate him alive in the debates which had the effect of making him look like a sympathetic figure given how sick and tired people were of her all too familiar arrogance.
In the same way the public will tire of Keys hubris. Sadly it may take another 3 years for this to happen. The question then becomes will the next government repeal Keys ugly spy law? Based on Labours response to the Green’s initiative to clean up our rivers I don’t think they will but then I’m hoping by then they will be the minority party to the Greens majority.
“Clarke ate him alive in the debates which had the effect of making him look like a sympathetic figure given how sick and tired people were of her all too familiar arrogance.”
– Wow just…wow
I really don’t see the whole point of all these comments about the interview. One side saying Key pwned Campbell and will pwn Labour/Shearer/whatever. The other side saying, no Key looked arrogant. Or, Key did perform well and is terrifying because he will outperformed Shearer next year.
Is any of this really new? We already knew Key does well in the media. We already that Key will probably outperform Shearer in a debate. We already know that Key is arrogant (but so are many politicians).
As far as I can see it, all this analysis of the interview is serving to distract from the main points of the whole issue:
1) Does the new legislation allow the GCSB to spy on New Zealanders?
Yes, see the analysis at Tech Liberty.
2) If so, should New Zealanders be concerned about these new powers given to the GCSB?
In my opinion, yes. And nothing Key said in the interview was particular reassuring in that regard – he simply dismissed any concern about the issuing of warrants, did not properly deal with the issue of metadata and ignored the possibility that warrantless cybersecurity powers in the new act could be use to gain incidental intelligence. He also dismissed the wide ranging concerns of many individuals and agencies as simply ‘wrong’.
To be honest, I really don’t know why those who support Key are so keen to ignore these issues (Sure, Key is a good politician and you might like the way he is running the country. But are you really that confident that either some GCSB bureaucrats or future government will not misuse these new powers?)
Yes, and
“The only difference between those granted for spying on foreigners and those for spying on New Zealanders, is that the ones targeting New Zealanders have to be signed off by the Commissioner of Security Warrants as well as the Prime Minister. The Commissioner is appointed by the Prime Minister.”
Which is what Key said on the show. Campbell and tech are trying to imply that key is going to buy off the commissioner.
Not ignoring the issue, the issue is very clear.
He was also Clark’s commissioner. Maybe the left know something we don’t?
“Campbell and tech are trying to imply that key is going to buy off the commissioner.”
No-one’s implying that. (Yeah I know Key tried to say they were but let’s stay in reality-land, eh?) .
Key can appoint whoever he likes to the position. That’s not an implication, that’s a fact. And that alone is concerning enough without whatever else he’s making up about payoffs.
like fletcher@gchq.co.nz ?
Yes, and you have ignored the other issues raised regarding the cybersecurity powers and metadata.
And again you make it all about Key, when I said this:
It is perfectly reasonable to be dubious of this issue even if we know that Key is the Best Prime Minister Ever (TM) who is always true and just. After all, we can’t be sure a future Prime Minister won’t abuse their power to spy on hardworking NZ taxpayers. Maybe one of those from that dodgy and corrupt Labour Party? Or what if one of those evil Greens ever got in power? And all they would need to do is appoint an activist leftist judge to get their way!
While that last point clearly contains a lot of hyperbole – it does serve to highlight the fact that the proposed legislation may give too much power to the Prime Minister.
Campbell was vanquished….get used to it. Perhaps those of the left ought start grooming Shearer for a decent thumping too. I suggest Campbell has done trainee interviewers a favour by demonstrating how not to conduct an interview. Campbell ought learn (probably far too late now,) that he isn’t the news, merely a conduit.
Putting Campbell aside for a moment tell me how long has the spy law saga been playing out? Quite some time now and its not going away in spite Keys transparent distractions in the form of fish and child abusers.
If Keys was really that effective why is this still an issue? All sounds like Tory wishful thinking to me….
Bullshit.
We need our journalists to ask hard questions, and to clearly lay out agendas, untruths and misuses of power.
That’s what most of the MSM is these days, a pipe for corporate PR.
Campbell was ambushed, being given one or two hours notice by the PMs office, and Key was very prepped .. which is interesting for a number of reasons.
GCHQ is part of the Echelon/FiveEyes(FVEY)/UKUSA/BRUSA agreement and it is probable that the other parties have been watching the scandal unfold with increasing disquiet – starting with Key’s irregular appointment of Fletcher. The last thing they would want is to get diverted by the smallest member of the alliance while dealing more pressing problems abroad.
Key’s demeanour, preparation, and circumstances of the interview suggest that someone has had a quiet chat with Key who did not seem (to this outside observer) to be a happy man.
Campbell Live Thursday night – ShonKey Python – XKeyWhore !
While pledging a fidelity to New Zealanders underwritten by the fine values of the NZ National Party……….
JC needs to stop jumping all over the place. He got so flustered and just jumped from point to point, trying to stick stupid shit on him like NSA etc…
Thanks for taking the time Karol, much appreciated.
I have just watched the Campbell show. I could not believe how much it was being talked up as a win for Key. I had assumed that it might have been exaggerated.
Well, man was I wrong!
Key totally destroyed Campbell, Key showed Campbell to be nothing more than a left wing hack and the very worst type of chardonnay socialist.
Key is a bit left wing for my liking but I have to give him points for the way he destroyed Campbell with nothing more than the truth.
I am pretty sure that will be the beginning of the end for Comrade Campbell, he cannot recover from such an embarrassing hiding like that.
Not far right enough. What’s missing? Perhaps the jack boots, pencil moustache and bad haircut?
Did you support East Germany having the Stasi, big bruv?
bb, please please do no explain. Let them think Key is a Right Winger! LOL
Hi bb.
Is there something Key said that you agree with?
Could you say what it is please?
lol, the hitler references are coming out. Desperation is setting in.
Trying to prevent desperate times, that’s all.
I’m sorry to hear that. Chin up, eh?
In time, Key will be seen as the biggest fraud in New Zealand’s history. Unfortunately not right now. In the meanwhile, here’s something for all those Snapper lovers.
Crispy skin snapper with caper and lemon salsa
Ingredients:
Snapper fillets, skin on
Butter
2 small tomatoes, finely chopped
1 shallot or small red onion, finely chopped
2 tbs of finely chopped capers
Small handful of parsley
1 lemon, juice and zest
Olive oil
Score the fillets lightly in a criss-cross direction without cutting to deeply then fry, skin side down, in the butter halfway before turning the fillets and finishing on the other side.
Combine all the other ingredients in a bowl and season with salt and pepper.
Place snapper on a serving plate with the salsa either placed on the fish or next to it. Crusty bread goes really well with this.
Thanks!
“In time, Key will be seen as the biggest fraud in New Zealand’s history”
No chance Bruce. That title will always be fought out between Clark and Peters.
Just as it is with his role-model Muldoon, young people will find it hard to believe that he was actually pretty popular for a while.
big bruv
You speak with the confident authority of a god – you put me in mind of the Corinthians quote
2 For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Comparing Clark and Peters who both have achieved good things for NZ, to Key who is achieving advantages for himself and his Cosa Nostra, shows a very cloudy vision on your part. One day you may reach enlightenment – but oh Lord not yet.
That is hilarious.
Clark and Peters were part of the most corrupt government this nation has ever seen yet you somehow seem to be blinded by stupid ideology.
Clark achieved nothing other than purchasing herself a job at the UN with my money. Peters has achieved even less.
It’s pathetic Bruv, this relentless crying wolf of yours. Suffused with hate, completely unbalanced. Frothing at the mouth over Peters and Clark in a Parliament that yields up scum like Capill and Garrett. Sad but true.
Give him more time
No, Big Bruv, the biggest fraud in New Zealand history will always be a toss-up between Graham Capill and David Garret.
The National Party disses the shit out of Muldoon now. Poor guy’s only use now is to provide ShonKey Python with a false political provenance……….Rob’s Mob wah wah wah………thus concealing that he was imported here to do everything he’s done.
All I can say is that the wingnuts are out in force on this topic. As they generally do when they are on the wrong side of the debate. He is wrong on this GCSB bill, and showed it in a major way last night. The experts (and they are experts) are in agreement that it is unnecessary to rush through this legislation in light of supposed threats. In saying that, Campbell did not acquit himself as well as I would have liked but Key was not being a very good interviewee.
Campbell is not a very combative interviewer. It’s also been a while since he last really interviewed key.
Also, John Key does not like to be beaten or challenged. he is extremely competitive. He came out swinging last night, because
KeyCampbell has been making in-roads into Key’s credibility. When it looks like he might be on the losing end, key can be ruthless. And note, also, in this interview, he’s very clear about his facts – none of the memory lapses he is prone to.Campbell tried to ask some hard & straightforward questions, but Key just obfuscated – it’s all in the confidence with which its done. He was especially twisty on metadata.
And, why would people give Key such an estimate? To throw into an interview exactly as he’s done here.
Oh yeah, he was a snake in the grass, that’s for sure. It is his MO, and I really don’t know how you can combat that, rather than just ignore him, which I think would be the worst thing for him. Yeah, plus it is a very complex topic, not for your average punter, which is why a majority of the wingnuts are not addressing the content, just the delivery, or who ‘won.’
karol
What did you mean ‘He came out swinging last night, because Key has been making in-roads into Key’s credibility.’ Was that Campbell has been….?
Yep, Gw. typo in there. thanks – will fix.
“A hundred and thirty thousand people” is absolute rubbish, because of course they will just put whatever they can find into a database for years and analyse it with computers.
@ karol
key uses such mangled language that you stop trying to get any understanding of what he is trying to say (usually nothing) after the first sentence or so. Personally I think there should be sub-titles on any of keys *interviews* so we can get a translation as he goes along. I noted that the only thing in the transcript that he was certain of is that everybody is wrong! Everybody! Not him God forbid. Thank you for the transcript, it certainly laid key bare. I find that if I have to listen to him my brain hurts. May Chen on 9-noon once said (pretty sure it was her) that she turns the volume down and just watches key. Tried it and it is fascinating how revealing it is,you can pretty much pick up every ummmm, mistruth just watching the facial contortions.
Not out in force. I think the left thought this would be their play to finally nail key on this, and it backfired. Big time.
Simple question.
Why do you support the GCSB Bill?
No answer?
Ok so you’re here simply to discuss how great John Key is and not discuss the GCSB issues.
Play the man, not the ball.
Style, not substance.
It’s not over til it’s over.
One of the reasons I wanted to do… and finish the transcript (even though it turned out to eat up a lot of my time) is that Key made some emphatic statements. A TV/video interview is over quickly, and people remember the impact of the personalities. The actual words said tend to drift off into the ethernet. Unlike typed words, spoken key words online, fly under the google capture radar.
Key said, for instance, that spying on Dotcom was illegal because the police made a mistake in telling the GCSB that he was a foreigner. I thought the GCSB must have known he was a resident.
Key’s waffling about metadata and antiviruses really don’t answer the concerns people have about the surveillance technologies – the ones like Prism & Xkeystroke, that Campbell put to Key.
“The actual words said tend to drift off into the ethernet.”
… dunno why, but I’m interested/slighlty amused by that – i.e. especially the ‘net’ on the end of ether. Only because that’s exactly what’s happening using complex sniffers – we only used to use them on local point to point lines to diagnose problems.
Now, everything is captured.
I’d love to meet the seriously misguided individual(s) that wrote Xkeyscore et al. I ‘spose they saw a bizness opportunity.
There will be ways of fucking it all up of course, and there’ll no doubt be many looking into it.
Even I’ve wondered – various protocol encapsulations possibly. Something to consider maybe in my dotage.
“I think the left thought this would be their play to finally nail key on this”
Eh? This was an interview with the PM. “The left” wasn’t represented.
I just realised, you lot have been “scoring” this as if it were a debate. FFS is that what an interview is to you people? Jesus that’s twisted.
Yup. The way people are going on it may be forgivable if some people were under the impression that John Campbell was standing for election or sumpin’.
It was a bleeding interview for crying out loud! How in the name of the flying spaghetti monster (pbuh) does someone win an interview?
Huh? As I understand it, John Key’s office only said that he would go on the show at 4pm or so, and the show played at what? 7pm.
I think that you expect too much of the “left”. Getting their expectations up in 3 hours seems rather ummm overconfident of you. I usually think it takes at least 3 weeks, maybe even 3 months…
But it appears that a day was sufficient for the nutters like yourself to start frothing.. Does having no particular brain activity help with the rabid impressions?
hitler was equally charismatic
And so was Mussolini, Col. Gadhafi, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, etc. etc. A perceived appealing personality doesn’t mean they are ideal leaders.
Did you know that snapper are carnivores. Small snapper feed mainly on small crustaceans and worms. Larger snapper eat fish and larger, harder-bodied animals such as sea eggs (kina), crabs and shellfish.
Just thought everybody might be interested, being a nation more interested in snapper than our personal security.
Gadhafi had his issues, but you will note that while he had a socialist society, free education and healthcare system, women in universities, etc. now Libya is fucked and the corporations and mercernaries run the show (and the oil fields).
Not to mention Al Qaeda is having a field day.
“Gadaffi had his issues”, the prize for understatement of the year goes to CV.
Well, Libya is worse off without him, having descended into a kind of deliberate mercernary corporate anarchy.
If it is true that John Key was ‘impressive’ in this interview then that is unfortunate for John Key.
After all, he has therefore just wasted an ‘impressive’ performance on the GCSB issue. As we know, what everyone is really concerned about is snapper.
By your own reckoning, you have put too much effort into the wrong issue, Mr Key.
Very sharp observation as usual Pg.
I suppose we won’t be hearing any more from Key about the GCSB, or spying, or Kim.com seeing as it’s all a non-issue that no-one cares about.
Magnificent effort Karol – thanks…
Agreed.
+1
Thanks. A transcript can be extremely useful.
However, watching a video of Key at his spinning best more than once is also instructive.
One thing I noticed while transcribing, but didn’t have the time to stop and consider: there’s a couple of points where Key’s voice hits a high note – almost a falsetto. It’d be interesting to look at it more closely, taking note of the context, to see what it shows – Key’s anxiety?
It’s also very good of Key to give such an instructive performance this far out from an election. Opposition strategists need to look at it carefully. Key will be formidable in 2014 election debates.
Another consideration is Keys drawing in of air through the teeth and tongue, which makes a slurping sound. This sound is detectable when a truth is about to be spun into a half truth or a straight out untruth is about to wash over us all.
Generally right wing commentator Audrey Young, against her own conservative instincts exposes the true nature of metadata spying.
Despite a glowing report of John Key’s Performance, Young damningly exposes her hero John Key as an apologist and, a liar covering up for the dangerous and intrusive nature of this sort of blanket spying. In the final sentence Young criticises Key for not being open about the true potential for metadata spying to intrude into people’s private lives. And tells him he should have been more open about this.
And now, this morning, the NZH reports that Key says the GCSB Bill will include restrictions on access to the content of communications. I’m not sure how that will be possible?
And doesn’t that mean Key is admitting that what he said on Wednesday night was incorrect?
Nice point karol, The slipperiness and story changing from Key knows no bounds.
Gee, maybe there should be an inquiry into it huh? 😉
Of course this is typical Key who only responds to threats to his popularity, just like his last minute Campbell appearance after the snapper gaff.
Great work on the transcript, btw.
“And doesn’t that mean Key is admitting that what he said on Wednesday night was incorrect?”
Of course. But that was then and this is now, you gotta be in the moment to join the Key fan club.
While I am concerned about spy networks using data for… well who knows, we need to tackle the agencies and how they do their spying. Im equally as concerned that people have invested so much of themselves online. The internet is far more important than a way of keeping up with friends and family or sharing hobbies.
The internet is open and should remain that way, yes everybody should be able to see what your up to online and you should be able to see what everybody else is doing including Parliament. My point is that going down the road of privacy rights has a very real possibility of slowing down the sharing of information to a crawl. The internet is so important I believe that it should have no rules or regulation at all. Where do we stop? Would we catch as many paedophiles with out the net? Twitter is now under attack by French courts and the English court of public opinion because of the horror of people saying what they like. Get over it. There’s the power button – hit it and get some fresh air. Also perhaps take a break from social networking then people will stop confusing being on line with living a life.
Every report I have read of the interview , except at the standard and a handful of far left tweeter’s have said, Key came off as excellent in the interview.
You guys are beating a dead horse, you come across like the gop when after the second USA debate, they then argued all of romney’s points for him, that he couldnt argue himself.
I agree its really easy to sell a used car in New Zealand. And yes speaking to others today I believe that Key has changed many peoples minds. We have the most amazing used car salesmen and if they do really well they can make it all the way to PM. New Zealand homes must be pretty whiffy with all the dead rats sold them daily (not to mention the moisture from their leaky homes accelerating the rotting carcases ). Yep no surprise that New Sheepland is convinced by someone who doesn’t use big confusing words, but explains things in very simple terms so vague that there is no question to ask. Who in their right mind uses Norton’s, when they were busted so long ago for spying themselves, anyway. So sad to see this issue being a left right thing in ‘no civic education’ New Sheepland. Glad you bought in the USA debate as for the first time in a long time in the USA this issue is not a left right issue but a privacy issue. This country mocks Americans for being insular and ignorant, unlike worldly NZ. Will I would say that it is NZ that is insular and ignorant. Those that leave do not come back.
I wrote a comment before to try to stimulate conversation about if the internet should have any laws at all. Unfortunately no uptake. This is the problem everything is so f#&%$@n black and white here. We need to learn to discuss and listen, lets start with teaching our kids civics and classics so we can dialogue in stead of digging ourselves into entrenched holes.
No, it is nothing like that Brett. John Campbell is not running for elective office. This wasn’t a presidential debate.
Anyway, Key’s old gambit of spouting numbers he pulled from his backside and then bashing on without actually naswering the question…par for the course. Also, I don’t get this whole idea of Key giving a “master class”. I honestly don’t get it. His squeaky air sucking delivery doesn’t exactly inspire trust.
Karol – I’m grateful for the translation. All I could hear was slippery dick sssshhhhmizzum eeeeetchum shhhhhhwiis eeeekshill kaka (going forwid).
Reading thru’ it all though itzorl snot sprizung.
I freely admit to a disability – half the time I can’t work out whether he’s just lazy, or totally pissed. But if Key was trying to sell me a car, or a ‘portfolio’, I’d give it all a woide berth (not quite wide enough though for a Pulla Bent to slip through –
{safety issues} – she’d be likely to snag her leopard skin ugboots.
Oh PS – I just thought I’d put the ‘judgmental’ in in order for Chris Trotter to justify a recent post that relates to the prolim with Labour
Thanks for this transcript Karol. It certainly exposes the slipperiness of John Key.
Kia ora – thanks for doing this – after spending years doing the same thing.