Open mike 07/07/2013

126 comments on “Open mike 07/07/2013 ”

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1. Morrissey 1

   7 July 2013 at 7:06 am

   http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/07/05/the-servility-of-the-satellites/
   The Servility of the Satellites
   by DIANA JOHNSTONE, in Paris.

   The Snowden affair has revealed even more about Europe than about the United States.

   Certainly, the facts of NSA spying are significant. But many people suspected that something of the sort was going on. The refusal of France, Italy and Portugal to allow the private aircraft of the President of Bolivia to cross their airspace on the mere suspicion that Edward Snowden might be aboard is rather more astonishing.

   Together, these revelations confirm the completion of the transformation of the “Western democracies” into something else, an entity that as yet has no recognized name.

   The outrage against the Bolivian President confirmed that this trans-Atlantic entity has absolutely no respect for international law, even though its leaders will make use of it when it suits them. But respect it, allow it to impede their actions in any way? Certainly not.

   And this disrespect for the law is linked to a more basic institutional change: the destruction of effective democracy at the national level. This has been done by the power of money in the United States, where candidates are comparable to race horses owned by billionaires. In Europe, it has been done by the European Union, whose bureaucracy has gradually taken over the critical economic functions of independent states, leaving national governments to concoct huge controversies around private matters, such as marriage, while public policy is dictated from the EU Commission in Brussels.

   But behind that Commission, and behind the US electoral game, lies the identical anonymous power that dictates its desires to this trans-Atlantic entity: financial capital.

   This power is scheduled to be formally extended in the near future by…

   Read more….
   http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/07/05/the-servility-of-the-satellites/
   • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.1

     7 July 2013 at 9:07 am

     Which “International law” would that be? The one that says sovereign nations have no rights to control their own airspace?

     Come on, be specific: which “international law”. Put up or shut up.
     • Morrissey 1.1.1

       7 July 2013 at 9:47 am

       Again, you are out of your depth. You are now starting to make a spectacle of yourself.
       • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.1.1.1

         7 July 2013 at 9:57 am

         Got nothing? Say goodbye to “got nothing” misery with all new ad hominem drivel.
         • Morrissey 1.1.1.1.1

           7 July 2013 at 11:35 am

           You are clearly, sadly, way out of your intellectual depth. Nothing ad hominem about it, my floundering friend.
           • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.1.1.1.1.1

             7 July 2013 at 11:49 am

             Then why can’t you answer the question? Which international law has been broken?
     • Foreign Waka 1.1.2

       7 July 2013 at 11:48 am

       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyover_rights#First_freedom
       It can get very convoluted and tricky hen it comes to rights of flyovers. However, preemptive commitments as those mentioned are very suspect.
       • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.1.2.1

         7 July 2013 at 12:55 pm

         The Chicago Convention on International Air Aviation, articles one, five, six and sixteen.

         The fact that the treatment of President Morales plane was despicable does not mean it was illegal.
         • muzza 1.1.2.1.1

           7 July 2013 at 9:41 pm

           Argh, man made constructs, legal, illegal, live by them, and all will be a-ok!

           Nah, it’s taking us all in the wrong direction, rapidly!
           • UglyTruth 1.1.2.1.1.1

             7 July 2013 at 9:56 pm

             Permission vs reason, legal vs lawful, enslavement vs liberty.

             Like counterpunch says: “awareness of the scope of this power is the first step toward liberation”.
     • Rogue Trooper 1.1.3

       7 July 2013 at 12:18 pm

       interesting teasers at Conterpunch;
       -‘The New Japan, militaristic, aggressive and nostalgic for the old empire’ (there are similar aspirations within sections of China).
       -‘Kuala Lumpur- rising Islamist movement’. Interesting, just over the sea.
       • Populuxe1 1.1.3.1

         7 July 2013 at 12:53 pm

         Indonesia in Aceh and Papua ( I have GRAVE concerns about what is going in Papua and why our government isn’t more concerned)
     • Populuxe1 1.1.4

       7 July 2013 at 12:42 pm

       The international law of gravity perhaps?
       • felix 1.1.4.1

         7 July 2013 at 1:16 pm

         
     • Bill 1.1.5

       7 July 2013 at 3:08 pm

       @ OAK So diplomatic immunity is to be seen to mean nothing and kidnapping as just fine?
       • Populuxe1 1.1.5.1

         7 July 2013 at 3:15 pm

         No one got kidnapped – a country has every right to refuse passage through their airspace. Austria stepped up, bit the bullet, and sorted – but then had he taken a passenger jet rather than squandering Bolivian tax-payers money on a private plane, he probably wouldn’t have found himself in that situation in the first place.
         • Bill 1.1.5.1.1

           7 July 2013 at 3:42 pm

           So the next time Airforce One gets diverted from its flight path because flight permissions get withdrawn, forced to land elsewhere and foreign officials from a third country arrive on the scene demanding to search the plane…?
           • Populuxe1 1.1.5.1.1.1

             7 July 2013 at 5:59 pm

             Maybe if it was Iranian, Russian or Chinese airspace, but otherwise boo hoo the dispensation of power in the world is assymetrical. Quelle surprise. Why don’t you have a we cry about tthe fact than many Middle Eastern countries won’t let El Al fly through their airspace and North Korea won’t let anyone fly through their airspace.
       • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.1.5.2

         7 July 2013 at 9:35 pm

         Yes, Bill, that’s exactly what I said, isn’t it? That’s what despicable means, after all.
   • muzza 1.2

     7 July 2013 at 11:34 am

     an entity that as yet has no recognized name.

     It’s got a name Mozza, the same it’s always been.

     The name which people associate with labels, such as Godwin!

     As the technology dictatorship strengthens, and the self delusional cling to any sense of understanding, they can relate to, so the fables and fabrications will accelerate!

     How so few, can control so many: Technology, and lies!
     • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.2.1

       7 July 2013 at 11:51 am

       …and yet be so ineffective and incompetent as to leave the world in the state it’s in?

       Or perhaps these simplistic models don’t come close to an understanding of the state of affairs.
       • muzza 1.2.1.1

         7 July 2013 at 12:10 pm

         Bloke, I agree with your comment, but it doesn’t change the landscape, re: few, controlling many!
         • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.2.1.1.1

           7 July 2013 at 12:42 pm

           Apart from the fact that the “control” is ineffective and incompetent to the extent that it isn’t worthy of the name.

           “He put me in hospital me because I made him angry – that was deliberate! I’m the one in control here!”
           • Rogue Trooper 1.2.1.1.1.1

             7 July 2013 at 1:56 pm

             not sure what you are referencing muzza, but I noted this from Coro the other day (always topical ) – “if I didn’t fight back, it wasn’t rape”. – Carla. says it all really. Kinda like, Norris ‘the Sartre, and Rita, the de Beauvoir” of The Street. – Norris Cole.
             • muzza …

               7 July 2013 at 9:47 pm

               Hi RT.

               My response was to a comment from Morrisey, the first of this OM.

               I don’t watch tv, so have no idea what you’re referring to, and OAK, seems to have blown another valve.

               Peace
       • blue leopard 1.2.1.2

         7 July 2013 at 5:42 pm

         “…and yet be so ineffective and incompetent as to leave the world in the state it’s in?”

         This depends from what perspective you are assessing the situation, One Anonymous Knucklehead.

         One could see the way things are being organized currently as extremely effective and competent.

         How masses of people’s interests are being so categorically ignored, and for those of us in the Western world, to have more and more rights and freedoms that we have been enjoying (so much so that sadly, we have taken them for granted it appears), rights and freedoms being categorically decreased – lost, and while this utter degeneration is occurring, it is being managed in such a way that hardly anyone is speaking out, in fact whole swathes of each community are cheering

         …and thus, the few who are causing and benefitting from the chaos that is our current corrupt state of affairs can continue in the luxury that they have been accustomed without being held to account for the increased misery and undermining of our civil society.

         The only reason this is continuing is because not enough people are stepping up and saying NO! People are slow to believe it could ever get as bad as those who are warning them are saying it is.

         And what of the individuals who do speak out?

         ….Illustrating how bad things have really got; now those benefitting from the utter corruption of what was a pretty well organized society, can now openly squeal from the rooftops “Traitor” about a person speaking out truthfully on yet another absolute violation of our trust (trust, in actuality, being the cornerstone of our ‘civilized society’).

         wtf??

         It is utterly absurd that this is being allowed to continue.

         This state of affairs could be seen as involving pretty effective and competent manipulative techniques when analysed from the perspective of those small-minded inhumane dunderheads whom are benefitting from the state of corruption we are experiencing.
         • muzza 1.2.1.2.1

           7 July 2013 at 9:57 pm

           So effective, are the techniques, BL, they have have people believing that their mind is their own, including the thoughts generated, and the resultant decision/actions!

           The techniques are transparent, but require inner understanding, otherwise the blinkers, stay in place!

           People have always had the power, they still do, but the techniques have distracted the people, and kept them busy little slaves!

           Meanwhile, human kind races towards its own extinction, with the transhumanists, on the levers of control!
           • McFlock 1.2.1.2.1.1

             7 July 2013 at 10:19 pm

             another little experiment of yours, muzz?
             • muzza …

               8 July 2013 at 8:33 am

               McFlock, we have had this conversation, before.

               It’s nothing to do with me, I am merely an observer!

               @BL – Trust, yup, the trust has been handed over to agents of the *elite*, whose intentions/desires can be seen sprayed around inside/outside NZ.

               So far in the mess are we, that people still believe (trust) the current system will provide the solution, which of course it won’t/can’t, and has been actively killing, and is actively killing them, and their future, in front of the eyes!

               He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.”

               ― George Orwell, 1984
           • blue leopard 1.2.1.2.1.2

             8 July 2013 at 2:21 am

             @ Muzza,

             Yes, I agree.

             It is very sad and I hope that more people start to question what they place their trust in.

             Trust is a very important quality and it is being thoroughly abused.

             I hope that people start waking up to this fact.
   • Populuxe1 1.3

     7 July 2013 at 12:17 pm

     Nah, they just don’t want to have to deal with the schmuck (O Narcissism! O Dunning-Kruger)

     http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/06/10/nsa-whistleblower-is-revealed-flees-to-china-as-news-of-doj-investigation-announced/

     And my personal favourite:

     “SNOWDEN: HOLY SHIThttp://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/washington/11iran.html?_r=1&hp

     SNOWDEN: WTF NYTIMES

     SNOWDEN: Are they TRYING to start a war? Jesus christ they’re like wikileaks

     User19: they’re just reporting, dude.

     SNOWDEN: They’re reporting classified shit

     User19: shrugs

     User19: meh

     SNOWDEN: moreover, who the fuck are the anonymous sources telling them this?

     SNOWDEN: those people should be shot in the balls.”

     lol

     http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/07/06/have-we-all-been-fooled-by-edward-snowden/#ixzz2YJWPi778
     • Rogue Trooper 1.3.1

       7 July 2013 at 12:30 pm

       the first link was a bit of a re# Pop, yet the second one was interesting (although, essentially summation). Just goes to show, it is important to be mindfully intentional in online forums, one just never knows which is honey-cured and which, is smoked.
       • Populuxe1 1.3.1.1

         7 July 2013 at 12:50 pm

         Well I do find it faintly curious that someone who donated to Ron Paul’s presidential campaign and seemingly had no problem at all doing what he was doing under George W Bush, suddenly develops a conscience when a Democrat, specifically a black Democrat, enters the White House and then specifically takes a job in order to steal intelligence in order to undermine that presidency, including sensitive intelligence relating to US national security which he has boasted about from the safety of *China* and *Russia*. I hope he doesn’t get shot in the balls.
   • Draco T Bastard 1.4

     7 July 2013 at 12:24 pm

     Together, these revelations confirm the completion of the transformation of the “Western democracies” into something else, an entity that as yet has no recognized name.

     Well, it used to be called the British Empire but two things happened:
     1.) Britain collapsed
     2.) Empire went out of fashion

     This resulted in Britain handing the reigns of the empire to the US and the US steadfastly saying that it isn’t an empire even though it is.

     The empire didn’t go away, it just changed hands and went underground.
   • Populuxe1 1.5

     7 July 2013 at 12:56 pm

     “Together, these revelations confirm the completion of the transformation of the “Western democracies” into something else, an entity that as yet has no recognized name.”

     Well Mosquito, your fellow connoisseurs of tinfoil millinery have been calling it the “New World Order” for decades – surely that will do?
     • felix 1.5.1

       7 July 2013 at 1:27 pm

       Tinfoil milliners and U.S. presidents, for decades.

       But Draco’s right, ‘Empire’ is the word. No new terminology needed.
2. Morrissey 2

   7 July 2013 at 7:32 am

   The Hall of Hogwash
   Exhibit No. 1: BARACK OBAMA

   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
   “Madiba’s moral courage, this country’s historic transition to a free and democratic nation, ahhhhh, has been a personal inspiration to me, it has been, ahhhhh, an inspiration to the world….people standing up for what’s right….aaaahhhh, the yearning for justice and dignity…”
   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

   —-President Obama, speaking on the Soweto campus of Johannesburg University, 29 June, 2013
   http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jun/29/obamas-south-africa-mandelas-video

   hogwash, n. 1. Worthless, false, or ridiculous speech or writing; nonsense.
   2. Garbage fed to hogs; swill.
   hypocrisy, n. 1. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc., contrary to one’s real character or actual behaviour, esp the pretence of virtue and piety
   2. an act or instance of this
   • Tim 2.1

     7 July 2013 at 7:54 am

     What’s your take on Obama?
     Is it just that he learned to love the treats and trinkets of power?
     Has someone (or the Presidential machinery) got something over him?
     Or was he just always an Uncle Tom?

     (Hope and Change – Yes We Can) My arse!
     • Te Reo Putake 2.1.1

       7 July 2013 at 8:40 am

       Apart from the first year of his Presidency, his party has not had the majority in either congress or the senate. That means the Republicans have stymied most of his initial proposals, though the healthcare reform did scrape through.

       Plus, according to some, he’s been busy raping leftists, smashing the fingers of musicians before killing them and executing large numbers of his fellow citizens in boats converted to torture centres. With all that, and golf, he hasn’t had the time to do anything good.
       • Tim 2.1.1.1

         7 July 2013 at 8:48 am

         Well I’d swallow that maybe …. except when it comes to Guantanamo. He is, after all ‘Commander in Chief’.

         (gtg for now – back later)
       • Morrissey 2.1.1.2

         7 July 2013 at 9:01 am

         Apart from the first year of his Presidency, his party has not had the majority in either congress or the senate. That means the Republicans have stymied most of his initial proposals, though the healthcare reform did scrape through.

         The most powerful bully pulpit in the world, and he has done virtually nothing worthwhile. Blame the Republicans. Your enthusiastic repetition of government spin still has the power to astonish, even after a couple of years of witnessing it.

         Plus, according to some, he’s been busy raping leftists, smashing the fingers of musicians before killing them and executing large numbers of his fellow citizens in boats converted to torture centres.

         I think you’re trying (unwisely) to be funny here but, for the record, nobody has suggested Obama has personally raped, killed or tortured anyone—He’s Obama the Hypocrite, not Ivan the Terrible.

         With all that, and golf, he hasn’t had the time to do anything good.

         Obama has been wasting his time not so much with golf, but with ghastly publicity stunts like this….
         http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jun/29/obamas-south-africa-mandelas-video
         • One Anonymous Knucklehead 2.1.1.2.1

           7 July 2013 at 9:03 am

           “The most powerful”.

           Only if you ignore reality and think in facile soundbites. Perhaps you think high office is some sort of magic wand.
           • muzza 2.1.1.2.1.1

             7 July 2013 at 11:37 am

             No, its an illusion!
             • One Anonymous Knucklehead …

               7 July 2013 at 11:46 am

               Not merely an illusion, Muzza.
         • Populuxe1 2.1.1.2.2

           7 July 2013 at 1:02 pm

           Um yeah, that whole democracy thing, checks and balances etc and the abuse thereof. You seem to be confusing the guy with Louis XIV.
       • Rogue Trooper 2.1.1.3

         7 July 2013 at 12:32 pm

         cracks the odd joke and shimmies from time-to-time.
       • Populuxe1 2.1.1.4

         7 July 2013 at 1:01 pm

         You forgot his covert assistance in helping the greys abduct innocent leftists for a bit of anal probing and cattle mutilation. Also the weather.
     • One Anonymous Knucklehead 2.1.2

       7 July 2013 at 8:45 am

       His “take”?

       You spelled delusional bias wrong.
       • Morrissey 2.1.2.1

         7 July 2013 at 8:54 am

         His “take”? You spelled delusional bias wrong.

         You’re out of your depth, my friend.
         • One Anonymous Knucklehead 2.1.2.1.1

           7 July 2013 at 9:00 am

           Bias isn’t that hard to recognise, fool.
           • Morrissey 2.1.2.1.1.1

             7 July 2013 at 9:02 am

             As I said, you are out of your depth. I am refraining from dealing to you because of that; if I were you, which thank the Lord I am not, I would now withdraw discretely and lick my wounds.

             I am, of course, assuming that you possess a lick of common sense.
             • One Anonymous Knucklehead …

               7 July 2013 at 9:05 am

               

               Bring it on: you aren’t “refraining”, you’re incapable.
               • Morrissey …

                 7 July 2013 at 9:08 am

                 Bring it on…

                 I don’t think so. At least my friend and adversary Te Reo Putake has shown a capacity to argue his corner. You lack that basic skill, I’m afraid.
                 • One Anonymous Knucklehead …

                   7 July 2013 at 9:14 am

                   Shoot the messenger, that always works when you’ve got nothing else.
                   • Morrissey …

                     7 July 2013 at 9:31 am

                     “Shoot the messenger”? In case you haven’t noticed, that’s what Obama and his tender-hearted ambassadors are doing.

                     I’m not shooting you, I’ve let you live.

                     For now.
                   • One Anonymous Knucklehead …

                     7 July 2013 at 10:04 am

                     A towering pinnacle of vacuity. Yawn.
     • Morrissey 2.1.3

       7 July 2013 at 9:12 am

       Tim, I think it’s a bit of all of those. But the problem is that Obama is simply a product of that vast, notoriously corrupt Chicago Democratic machine. As Norman Finkelstein said so memorably, he is pretty much the same as Bill Clinton.

       By the way, I am sure you noticed, like I did, that every time Obama said something particularly hypocritical, he prefaced it with an extended “ahhhhhh” or “errrrrr”. That’s a not entirely unwitting acknowledgement that he is less than sincere in what he is saying.
       • Tim 2.1.3.1

         7 July 2013 at 12:09 pm

         Yep, the options weren’t necessarily intended to be mutually exclusive.
         Btw, dear ole Chris Laidlaw seems to be ‘taken’ with you – that’s 2 in 2 weeks ? or maybe 2 in 3.

         Better be careful – next thing it’ll be ammo for all RNZ’s detractors :p
     • Jimmie 2.1.4

       7 July 2013 at 9:32 am

       Don’t forget he won the Nobel Peace Prize after bring peace and hope to the Middle East and ending all war and conflicts around the globe….oh wait…..something wrong with this statement….
       • Morrissey 2.1.4.1

         7 July 2013 at 9:46 am

         The immediate White House spin on the ostensibly farcical awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize to Obama was that it was an “aspirational” award, to award the president for all the good work for peace he was going to do in the future.

         If only they had given the Nobel Peace Prize to the German Führer in 1935, or to the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union around the same time….
       • Te Reo Putake 2.1.4.2

         7 July 2013 at 10:13 am

         Something wrong with the statement alright, because that’s not what he won it for according to the Nobel people. Wikipedia explains it pretty well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Nobel_Peace_Prize

         While I also think it was a bit naff to award it so early on in his presidency, the citation says it was “for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples.” That’s not specific to the middle east.

         Moz, any chance of a a cite to back up your claim that the White house said it was “aspirational”? I suspect you’re making shit up again.
         • Morrissey 2.1.4.2.1

           7 July 2013 at 11:22 am

           Moz, any chance of a a cite to back up your claim that the White house said it was “aspirational”?

           That very word was used repeatedly by “liberal” apologists for Obama. They almost always uncritically repeat everything they are handed by the likes of Jay Carney. Kind of like some people who haunt the blogs in this country….

           I suspect you’re making shit up again.

           You know, you keep saying that, but you have no evidence to back it up. You only make yourself look desperate by doing that.

           I recommend you tune in to National Radio right now: there’s a Clintonista speaking about war crimes trials. He’s just praised the commitment to human rights of …..(wait for it)…. Madeleine Albright. Sounds like a good source of more talking points for you, my friend.
           • Te Reo Putake 2.1.4.2.1.1

             7 July 2013 at 11:26 am

             So, unable to back up your claim? Goodo. Making shit up again it is then.
             • Morrissey …

               7 July 2013 at 11:32 am

               So, unable to back up your claim?

               “Unable to back it up”? I gave you the provenance of the propaganda spin that you yourself no doubt have repeatedly used.

               Goodo. Making shit up again it is then.

               I’m making nothing up, and you know it.

               I am interested to observe your bad manners and your mode of personal attack; given that you are (according to you, anyway) an active member of the Labour Party, that sort of behaviour is a very worrying indicator of the intellectual and moral tone of that organization. I am assuming, of course, that you act in real life in a roughly comparable way to the way you act online.
               • One Anonymous Knucklehead …

                 7 July 2013 at 11:44 am

                 Why, because that’s what you do? Uh huh.

                 The problem with overstating the good case against US foreign policy is that it distorts discussion of substantive issues. For example, think about the way Tea Party memes cripple Republican political debate, render their best candidates unelectable.

                 The Left is a fact-based political movement, Morrissey, and you are our Tea Party.
                 • Morrissey …

                   7 July 2013 at 12:05 pm

                   The Left is a fact-based political movement, Morrissey, and you are our Tea Party.

                   And you are the brains of the operation, I take it?
                   • One Anonymous Knucklehead …

                     7 July 2013 at 12:08 pm

                     Do you? How fascinatizzzzzzzzzzzzz
                 • Rogue Trooper …

                   7 July 2013 at 12:36 pm

                   oh madeira
               • Te Reo Putake …

                 7 July 2013 at 11:55 am

                 Evidence, Moz. C’mon, you’ve been googling furiously for an hour now, surely you must have found something that might make your claim seem less like a lie?
             • muzza …

               7 July 2013 at 11:44 am

               Mozza is correct, thats what it was sold as!

               http://swampland.time.com/2009/10/09/an-aspirational-nobel-prize-for-obama/

               The award, was a transparent signal, of control!

               Edit: Voice and Bloke double team. Moz you lucky boy to have attracted the attentions of the sites guard poodles!
               • Te Reo Putake …

                 7 July 2013 at 11:52 am

                 Swampland isn’t the White House, Muzza. I asked Moz to back up his spurious claim and he can’t, because its not actually true.
                 • Morrissey …

                   7 July 2013 at 12:04 pm

                   “Spurious claim”? You still persist with your desperate allegations, even as you are corrected by other posters.

                   But then it’s important to remember you are a Shearer-booster. So we have a gauge on your judgement and your credibility.
                   • Te Reo Putake …

                     7 July 2013 at 12:07 pm

                     Face it, Moz, you made the quote up and you’ve been called on it. There’s no shame in saying so, but there is nothing but shame in holding to the lie.
                   • muzza …

                     7 July 2013 at 12:20 pm

                     but there is nothing but shame in holding to the lie.

                     What, like having your pants pulled down by Shearer!
         • Populuxe1 2.1.4.2.2

           7 July 2013 at 1:11 pm

           But hey, they even gave one to Henry Kissinger
           • Tim 2.1.4.2.2.1

             7 July 2013 at 2:07 pm

             …and I’ve never been able to take them seriously ever since.

             As dear ole Laidlaw was suggesting this morning, perhaps they could redeem themselves by awarding Snowden one
             • Populuxe1 …

               7 July 2013 at 2:26 pm

               If only to prove what a shallow crock it all is?
               • felix …

                 7 July 2013 at 2:39 pm

                 Already proven.
                 • Rogue Trooper …

                   7 July 2013 at 2:58 pm

                   Links frazzled felix (this end anyways)
                   • felix …

                     7 July 2013 at 7:48 pm

                     Nope, works as intended.
               • Morrissey …

                 7 July 2013 at 4:16 pm

                 SCENE: The King’s Arms, Newton. A group of Standardistas are sitting around, exchanging opinions. Everybody’s getting a bit pissed, and a bit aggro….

                 TIM: As dear ole Laidlaw was suggesting this morning, perhaps the farcical Nobel Prize committee could redeem themselves by awarding Snowden one.

                 POPULUXE1: If only to prove what a shallow crock it all is?

                 MORRISSEY: No, it was awarding the Nobel Peace Prize to that arch-racist Theodore Roosevelt that started the rot, more than a century ago. People of conscience sneered at it at that time; they would have been astonished to see just how depraved the whole ghastly charade would get in the years to come. Perhaps most farcically of all, they gave it to Woodrow Wilson, that cadaverous scourge of Central America. And Lester Pearson. And—

                 TE REO PUTAKE: Cite, Moz? Or do I have to say you’re making shit up again?

                 MORRISSEY: [ploughing on regardless] Of course, not all the recipients were undeserving. Bertha von Suttner, for instance. And Albert Schweitzer. And Martin Luther King in 1964. And Desmond Tutu. And Mairead Corrigan and Betty Williams. So it’s not ALL bad.

                 POPULUXE1: [grins sardonically, shrugs, and throws up hands, palms upward] But hey, they gave one to Henry Kissinger.

                 MORRISSEY Incredibly, my academic friend, that’s correct. That was the one that prompted Kurt Vonnegut to declare that satire was not possible any more.

                 TE REO PUTAKE: Yep, Kurt Vonnegut. Right on!

                 MORRISSEY: [icily] Just like Victor Jara, right? How you love those dissenting voices! Right?

                 TE REO PUTAKE: [Turns purple, and snarls in low voice] You’re a dimwit and an arsehole Morrissey. Grow up.

                 MORRISSEY Kissinger was by no means the last of the monsters to get one. There was Menachem Begin a decade later. And Elie Weasel…..

                 …drones on interminably into the early morning…..
                 • Populuxe1 …

                   7 July 2013 at 6:05 pm

                   Yasser Arafat….
                   • Professor Longhair …

                     8 July 2013 at 3:39 pm

                     “Yasser Arafat….”

                     was a freedom fighter. Unlike any of the others listed by our friend Morrissey during that rather fraught five minutes in the King’s Arms.
3. Jenny 3

   7 July 2013 at 7:52 am

   Stuff has just published an article about the new normal.

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8888033/Volatile-weather-the-new-normal

   Various experts in their field have weighed in about how we should cope and be mitigating to deal with the new normal.

   “The wisest thing to do for New Zealand was to was “plan accordingly”.

   David Wratt Niwa chief scientist.

   “The longer we delay, the more our options become limited,”

   Chris Cameron Principal Climate Change Adviser for Wellington City Council.

   The long-term cost needed to be measured against the short-term needs of the community,

   Andrew Stitt Policy and Planning Manager at Wellington City Council

   “Good farmers will adjust to conditions and adjust their business accordingly,”

   Bruce Wills President of Federated Farmers

   However, what all these experts aren’t saying is…..

   This is not the new normal.

   The new normal will be much worse. Beyond our capacity to mitigate.

   We are only at the very beginning on the way to a new normal.

   If we don’t cut back our CO2 emissions, drastically and immediately, the new normal is forecast to be somewhere north of 6 degrees C.

   Prepare, if you can, to have your houses smashed in, and or flooded regularly and repeatedly. Prepare to see agriculture devastated. Prepare to see vital infrastructure and industry wrecked on a regular basis, beyond the ability to rebuild.

   And still, this will not be the new normal.

   You want to talk about mitigation or adapting to the new normal, then learn how to hunt food with a sharpened stick.
   • Te Reo Putake 3.1

     7 July 2013 at 8:59 am

     While I think it’s probably not this generation of Kiwis that will be reduced hunting with sharpened sticks, Jenny, your apocolyptic vision of the future can’t be far away for large parts of the third world. I predict substantial wars over the flows of rivers within our lifetime, as upstream countries dam or divert water to use domestically, regardless of the effect on downstream neighbours.
     • Populuxe1 3.1.1

       7 July 2013 at 12:30 pm

       The zombie apocalypse might get us first

       ““Pouwhenua”—got it from a Maori brother who used to play for the All Blacks before the war. Bad motherfuckers, the Maori. That battle at One Tree Hill, five hundred of them versus half of reanimated Auckland. The pouwhenua’s a tough weapon to use, even if this one’s steel instead of wood. But that’s the other perk of being a soldier of fortune. Who can get a rush anymore from pulling a trigger? It’s gotta be hard, dangerous, and the more Gs you gotta take on, the better. Of course, sooner or later there’s not gonna be any of them left. And when that happens…”

       – World War Z (the book, not the movie)
   • Rogue Trooper 3.2

     7 July 2013 at 12:43 pm

     oh my, oh the insurance premiums! Maybe Monsieur Proudhon’s assertion was with the best intentions towards all.
   • muzza 3.3

     7 July 2013 at 10:04 pm

     Jenny, as long as there is a financial cost referenced in any such articles, you can be assured that there is no intention to implement solutions for the benefits of all!

     The so called, new normal, is a crock designed to deflect, seems to be working!
4. North 4

   7 July 2013 at 9:10 am

   Qeue and Adore………90 seconds in.

   It’s official.

   The public is tired of Sir Kim Dotcom.

   The public sides with ShonKey Python.

   End of story.

   Thank you Corin.

   We have Farrar later on.

   That will seal it.

   Thank you Susan.
   • halfcrown 4.1

     7 July 2013 at 10:48 am

     That is why I refer to it as “A party political broadcast on behalf of the National Party.” I refuse to watch the shit.
5. David H 5

   7 July 2013 at 9:22 am

   Oh dear Q+A are so short of panelists they have David Bloody Farrar.

   Time for Russel Norman
6. Morrissey 6

   7 July 2013 at 9:28 am

   The Hall of Hogwash
   Exhibit No. 2: DAVID CAMERON

   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

   “We never support, in countries, the intervention by the military.”

   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

   —-U.K. prime minister David Cameron, speaking about the Egyptian crisis.
   http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b036c3r1

   hogwash, n. 1. Worthless, false, or ridiculous speech or writing; nonsense.
   2. Garbage fed to hogs; swill.
   hypocrisy, n. 1. the practice of professing standards, beliefs, etc., contrary to one’s real character or actual behaviour, esp the pretence of virtue and piety
   2. an act or instance of this

   Hall of Hogwash….
   No. 1 Barack Obama: “people standing up for what’s right….aaaahhhh, the yearning for justice and dignity…”
7. North 7

   7 July 2013 at 9:38 am

   Sorry Corin I forgot to say we also have me later on and after all the GCSB law was Labour’s in the first place and really, should this be a political issue at all place ?

   Visitor from Hawke’s Bay – ShonKey Python is very popular with the public.

   Useless cow/s !

   Faarrrk, get the pretty pink Big Gay Out picnic table on Ryall.
8. Molly 8

   7 July 2013 at 10:38 am

   Occasionally I read the opinion pieces in the Herald, and since I don’t have too much energy to waste on writing in the comments, often utilise the ‘Like’ feature to provide support to those I agree with.

   On Rodney Hide’s piece today GSCB used as a stick to bash Government my Likes are not being recorded.

   Seems to have happened a few times over the last couple of weeks. I don’t believe the Herald is IT-savvy enough to manipulate alternative views, but it is interesting how it happens on topical articles.
9. Morrissey 9

   7 July 2013 at 11:54 am

   War crimes in Zambia bad; war crimes in Palestine: no problem
   Radio NZ National, Sunday 7 July 2013

   After listening in mounting horror and disbelief to a particularly nasty piece of slime called David Scheffer speaking, unchallenged, for more than half an hour, praising (amongst other howlers) the monstrous Madeleine Albright’s commitment to human rights, I was compelled to flick off the following hurried communication to the interviewer, Chris Laidlaw….

   Dear Chris,

   War crimes in Zambia bad; war crimes in Palestine: no problem

   David Scheffer said: “Should we let someone wanted for war crimes in Zambia into the United States? Of course not!” Such verbal indignation might be more impressive if the United States did not routinely admit people who commit war crimes in the Occupied West Bank and in Gaza.

   I note also that David Scheffer did not once mention the crimes of Israel in the Occupied West Bank, Gaza or on international waters.

   Yours in concern at the free platform given to glib Clintonistas,
   Morrissey Breen
   Northcote Point

   UPDATE!

   It’s just been read out, albeit with a slightly undermining “Yeeeesss, you can’t please everyone.”

   RESULT!!!!
   • Tim 9.1

     7 July 2013 at 2:17 pm

     Se 2.1.3.1 above.
     Go for 3 out of 3 (or maybe it’s 3 out of 4).
     • Morrissey 9.1.1

       7 July 2013 at 4:19 pm

       Thanks for that, Tim. I might have to publish some of my correspondence with Messrs Laidlaw, Mora, Crump and Miss Hill some time in the near future.
       • Professor Longhair 9.1.1.1

         8 July 2013 at 3:42 pm

         ” I might have to publish some of my correspondence with Messrs Laidlaw, Mora, Crump and Miss Hill some time in the near future.”

         Why don’t you republish some of the correspondence you engaged in with Leighton Smith and Michael Laws. That was pretty funny, I thought.
10. Draco T Bastard 10

    7 July 2013 at 12:47 pm

    What if Marx Got It Wrong?

    The massive financialization of the global economy over the last three decades has given the ruling elite a monopoly over the money supply, as well as land and resources. Thus for George’s land tax to be fully effective, it would also be necessary to restore public control over money creation.

    George’s goal in writing Progress and Poverty is to explain, in economic terms, why material progress (i.e. economic development) is always accompanied by poverty and increasing inequality. Employing Adam Smith’s classical definitions of labor, capitol, wages and interest and Ricardo’s Law of Rent, he argues that development must always produce poverty and inequality so long as a privileged elite holds an exclusive monopoly on the ownership of land and basic resources.

    Sounds remarkably like the way I’ve been thinking. Under the present system as more and more wealth is produced we get more and more poverty as more of the commons is privatised. Will have to read it.

    EDIT: No, on second thoughts, not what I’m looking at as it is still is based around ever increasing use of resources.

    Here’s a link to the book.
    • Macro 10.1

      7 July 2013 at 3:35 pm

      Enough is enough.
      http://steadystate.org/discover/enough-is-enough/
      have you read it draco?
      Its a real gem.
      • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1

        7 July 2013 at 5:47 pm

        No I haven’t. Will have to see if it’s at the library.

        EDIT: Nope, it isn’t.
    • karol 10.2

      7 July 2013 at 5:31 pm

      Interesting concept, though, that the problem is private ownership of land rather than capitalism – actually, don’t they go together?

      George’s book may be worth a look.
      • Draco T Bastard 10.2.1

        7 July 2013 at 6:00 pm

        Interesting concept, though, that the problem is private ownership of land rather than capitalism – actually, don’t they go together?

        It’s actually the private ownership of the resources that the land represents. In NZ most of those resources are still owned by the state and not the land owners. And, yes, the two do go together.

        The problem today seems to be more the fact that the money is in the control of the capitalists which allows them to then accumulate ever more control of those resources. Control of the resources then allows control of the populace.

        Still worth a read but he’s going to be wrong like most of the economists of the last 200 odd years but should add a couple of ideas.
        • Macro 10.2.1.1

          7 July 2013 at 6:35 pm

          Here’s what Kate Pickett says on “Enough is Enough”

          “Their vision of a steady state Economy and their practical focus on how to achieve it is a significant roadmap. Offering the way to a better quality of life and sustainable future for all of us and the planet”

          It’s a recent acquisition at my local library and a cracking read. Pester yours to obtain a copy -$20 online. I know you will enjoy it.
    • Macro 10.3

      7 July 2013 at 7:28 pm

      Yes his Chapter 9 is way off beam! He says he is interested in facts. Well here is one he does not consider. We live on a finite Planet.
      Like most economists, he has no understanding of exponential growth. I think he bases his argument on “decoupling” – producing more economic output with fewer material and energy inputs. So here is another fact he might like to consider – between 1980 and 2007 the material intensity of the global economy – the amount of biomass, minerals, and fossil fuels required to produce a dollar of GDP decreased by 33%. Worth celebrating, if it wasn’t for the fact that world GDP grew by 141%. The gains made in efficiency are wiped out by increased consumption. (sustainable europe research institute – and world bank figures)
11. bad12 11

    7 July 2013 at 2:04 pm

    Today is apparently the 97th birthday of the New Zealand Labour Party, rumor has it that a spinning noise has been heard emanating from cemetarys all over the country…
    • Tim 11.1

      7 July 2013 at 2:23 pm

      I thought it was more of a ‘rolling’ kind of noise – not unlike jaffas rolling down the uncarpeted floorboards of a Roxy Cinema.

      …. probably should have ‘capitalised’ J – for Jaffa
12. Penny Bright 12

    7 July 2013 at 2:39 pm

    FYI

    ‘Open Letter’

    Suad Allie
    Democracy Advisor,
    Regulaory and ByLaw Committee
    Auckland Council

    Dear Suad,

    Request for ‘Speaking Rights’ at ‘Public Forum’ at the Auckland Council Regulatory and Bylaws Committee meeting 10 July 2013, 1.30pm, Council Chamber, Auckland Town Hall, on the proposed By Law change to effectively outlaw ‘begging’.

    I note that the ‘TERMS OF REFERENCE’ for the Regulatory and Bylaws Committee, include:

    “Review Local Board proposed bylaws and recommend to Governing Body”, and relevant legislation noted, ‘includes but is not limited to

    Local Government Act 2002;
    Resource Management Act 1991;
    Sale of Liquor Act 1989; and
    All Bylaws’

    As one of two successful Appellants in the recent Occupy Auckland vs Auckland Council Appeal, I am very concerned that the RULE OF LAW, is followed in a proper way, regarding proposed changes, as outlined by Auckland Councillor Dr Cathy Casey, and reported in the NZ Herald on 4 July 2013:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10894576

    “A person must not use a public place to: beg or ask for money, food, or other items for personal use or solicit donations in a manner that may intimidate or cause a nuisance to any person.”

    definition of nuisance “includes any person, animal, thing or circumstance causing unreasonable interference with the peace, comfort or convenience of another person”.

    MY SUBJECT MATTER:

    1) That this proposed By Law violates the Local Government Act 2002,

    s. 155 (3)

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0084/latest/DLM173401.html

    155Determination whether bylaw made under this Act is appropriate

    (1AA)This section applies to a bylaw only if it is made under this Act.
    (1)A local authority must, before commencing the process for making a bylaw, determine whether a bylaw is the most appropriate way of addressing the perceived problem.

    (2)If a local authority has determined that a bylaw is the most appropriate way of addressing the perceived problem, it must, before making the bylaw, determine whether the proposed bylaw—
    (a)is the most appropriate form of bylaw; and
    (b)gives rise to any implications under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990.

    (3)No bylaw may be made which is inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, notwithstanding section 4 of that Act.
    _____________________________________
    The Bill of Rights Act 1990 potential violations, in my considered opinion, include, but are not limited to:

    8 Right not to be deprived of life
    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/DLM225506.html

    14 Freedom of expression
    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/DLM225513.html

    16 Freedom of peaceful assembly
    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/DLM225515.html

    19 Freedom from discrimination

    (1)Everyone has the right to freedom from discrimination on the grounds of discrimination in the Human Rights Act 1993.
    21Prohibited grounds of discrimination
    (1)For the purposes of this Act, the prohibited grounds of discrimination are—

    (j)political opinion, which includes the lack of a particular political opinion or any political opinion:

    (k)employment status, which means—
    (i)being unemployed; or

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/DLM225519.html

    2) What also really concerns me is WHO IS NEXT?

    Those collecting signatures for petitions, or collecting for charities/ causes/ issues? Protestors – for any reason on any issue?

    If you don’t know your rights – you haven’t got any.

    If you don’t defend the rights you have – you lose them.

    3) Civil Liberties /Human Rights lawyer Michael Bott, has provided the following comprehensive research on this issue, from which I intend to draw references:

    http://michaelbott.blogspot.co.nz/2013/07/local-bodies-freedom-of-expression.html?showComment=1373152206053#c3326932363914523767

    4) From whom are Auckland Council receiving legal advice on this matter?

    The same Auckland Council General Counsel Wendy Brandon, who has already proven, particularly over the Occupy Auckland vs Auckland Council Appeal, in my considered opinion, that she is arguably neither competent nor professional, in her understanding or application of the relevant Local Government and Human Rights legislation that pertains in such matters, and has already helped cost Auckland citizens and ratepayers some hundreds of thousands of dollars in unnecessary legal expenses?

    FYI:

    Decision of High Court Judge Ellis – Occupy Auckland wins our Appeal:
    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?p=113

    Proof that Auckland Council General Counsel Wendy Brandon has not been truthful over the amount spent by Auckland Council on legal costs for Occupy Auckland proceedings:

    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/?p=130

    5) Please be advised that as an Auckland Mayoral candidate, I hereby give you formal notice that if this Regulatory and ByLaw Committee of Auckland Council, does NOT follow the clearly outlined ‘RULE OF LAW’ that applies in this situation, and recklessly and precipitiously passes any By Law which does attempt to violate the lawful rights of arguably the ‘poorest of the poor’ – then I too will ‘beg’ in Queen St, in defence of these above-mentioned human rights, and encourage as many others as possible to join me.

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption/anti-privatisation’ campaigner
    2013 Auckland mayoral candidate
13. lprent 13

    7 July 2013 at 3:16 pm

    Turns out that I can read TS from a hut on a beach in Samoa. The cell coverage is pretty extensive. The roaming data is freaking expensive however…
    • Rogue Trooper 13.1

      7 July 2013 at 3:21 pm

      roam wasn’t built in a tropical bay. How them coconuts hanging.
      • lprent 13.1.1

        10 July 2013 at 4:02 pm

        Low and radiating…
14. beatie 14

    7 July 2013 at 3:49 pm

    Is Judith Collins using her staff to censor Wikipedia articles?

    http://brookingblog.com/2013/07/06/judith-collins-staff-editing-wikipedia-articles-on-justice-issues-in-nz/
    • Rogue Trooper 14.1

      7 July 2013 at 3:55 pm

      Sigh
    • weka 14.2

      7 July 2013 at 5:47 pm

      That’s bad. Although I’m always curious when people who are otherwise well informed and adept at negotiating power systems get banned from somewhere like wikipedia and don’t say why or how it came about.
      • Draco T Bastard 14.2.1

        7 July 2013 at 6:12 pm

        Perhaps he doesn’t know and is still trying to find out.
    • muzza 14.3

      7 July 2013 at 10:09 pm

      Yup, the digital world…

      Anything you want it to be/say…just a few clicks away!
15. joe90 15

    7 July 2013 at 4:53 pm

    Odds on a nact talking point something like this?.

    http://humanism.org.uk/2013/07/04/church-of-england-academy-chains-to-take-control-of-former-community-schools/
    • Rogue Trooper 15.1

      7 July 2013 at 5:11 pm

      Church of England…”quite conceivably become the largest sponsor and provider of secondary education in the country”.

      Gotta fill those pews with ewes.
      • joe90 15.1.1

        7 July 2013 at 5:13 pm

        Absolutely ovine..
        • Rogue Trooper 15.1.1.1

          7 July 2013 at 5:22 pm

          acquiescently theirs..
16. Rogue Trooper 16

    7 July 2013 at 6:23 pm

    Egypt:
    http://www.trust.org/item/20130706074317-o8n7e/?source=search

    Salafi el Nour object to ElBaradei’s appt, the Freedom and Justice Party (MB) “ready for martyrdom”
    -Abdullah Shehatah, now, Ansar el Shariah are cracking into it.

    China, and their infant market
    http://www.trust.org/item/20130707023852-ke6rf/?source=search

    and, and,

    Black Sabbath top British album charts, again, after 43 years.
    http://www.trust.org/item/20130616180000-4ki73/?source=search
17. Draco T Bastard 17

    7 July 2013 at 7:00 pm

    Education under huge pressure to cut costs

    Documents released by Treasury confirm the Government is dampening demand for tertiary education to balance the books, says Labour’s Tertiary Education spokesperson Megan Woods.

    “The documents note that ‘even if pressures are scaled back and more aggressive savings options are taken, the savings generated in Budget 2013 in 2015/16 and 2016/17, would not be sufficient to address the funding gap from Budget 2012 occurring in 2015-2016’.

    National’s promised surplus just isn’t materialising and so they have to cut even more essential services to try and get one and they’ll still fail.
18. McFlock 18

    7 July 2013 at 9:52 pm

    Some contemplative material for a few here: the effects of turning a real tragedy into a blog-hobby.
    • Te Reo Putake 18.1

      7 July 2013 at 10:07 pm

      You beat me to it! I was going to save it for the morning, thought it’d make a great first post of the day. Mind you, I’m not convinced the resident illuminati spotters and HAARPists here would recognise themselves reflected in Kathryn Gilkison’s words.
      • McFlock 18.1.1

        7 July 2013 at 10:20 pm

        to be fair, it’s probably worth a mention tomorrow morning, too
        • weka 18.1.1.1

          7 July 2013 at 11:41 pm

          Depends on how you want the morning to go on Open Mike

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