Quite some time ago I promised someone here that I would write a post about renaming New Zealand to Aoetearoa. It’s taken me a while but I have gotten around to doing it – prompted by the soon to be released book and already in place website A CONSTITUTION FOR AOTEAROA NEW ZEALAND.
I don’t like the creeping stealth approach where ‘Aotearoa New Zealand’ is being imposed. We should just have an open discussion and decide what we want our country to be called, one or the other.
The first European name was actually Staten Landt (Abel Tasman) but was changed to Nova Zeelandia by Dutch cartographers a few years later, and then anglicised to New Zealand by James Cook over a century after that.
Aotearoa apparently originally just applied to the North Island but was gradually applied to the whole country and is now the accepted alternative.
There’s many possible meanings, depending in part on whether you split it into Aotea’roa or Ao’tea’roa. ‘Land of the long white cloud’ is common but ‘long bright world’ and ‘land of abiding day’ are alternatives. I have also extracted ‘land of the transparent kiwi’ but that probably isn’t a goer.
But regardless, I think that Aotearoa is more appropriate than New Zealand and I’d be happy to see it change. It would obviously be a bit contentious though.
Just to save everyone a click, the linked article is a slightly longer / more detailed version of the comment that Pete George has made here.
There isn’t any other argument or reason for why we should change the name stated in the post. If you read the comment above, that’s pretty much all the post is:
1. A note that some people are apparently suggesting “Aotearoa New Zealand” and Pete doesn’t like that, for no explained reason
2. A very short timeline history of the original European origin, as Pete has already produced here. Then a very detailed breakdown of the meaning of the Maori word, again already summarised here
3. A final limp conclusion where Pete states that he would like it if the name were changed to Aotearoa; he notes it is contentious, but doesn’t offer any argument or greater insight than “I think this would be good”.
It wasn’t intended as a full blown argument. I aim to initiate and facilitate discussion in issues of interest.
I see that you didn’t even attempt to discuss the issue or express your own opinion (except indirectly, taking a swipe at the messenger) let alone arrive at ‘a limp conclusion’ of your own. What I posted is far from the conclusion, I don’t think that’s up to me.
Because Pete, I gave you the benefit of the doubt, thinking maybe you’d finally done something interesting / relevant, so I followed your link.
I was quite disappointed to discover that you comment here already had 85% of the content that was to be found at the link. So I posted a summary so others wouldn’t waste their time.
Also you don’t seem to understand the definition of conclusion. I was commenting on the conclusion to your post being dishwasher weak, not saying you need to have the final conclusive statement on any topic ever (which makes no sense anyway). You concluded your post with a very weak “I would like this” statement, but there’s no depth as to why you would like it, or why you think it’s time to do it now.
Frankly this reads like an 8-year old’s school assignment on whales, where they conclude by saying “I like whales”.
You’ve said virtually nothing apart from a bit of a long winded limp diss. I thought you were better than that. Maybe you missed the point – it was about the name of our country.
No, Lantanide. Only one person has nothing to say- you. Ok , ive
followed your summation of Pete’s post. That’s fine and dandy.
But I’m waiting for your input towards this discussion.
Now is your chance to shine. Lets hear your opinions.
Or are you vacuous like the comments below you, until we get
to Stuart Munro, who actually contributes.
I don’t think I’m any sort of victim. If there is any it’s the ‘commentariat’ who are a victim of an own-goal, revealing how you still operate. I’m not sure why you’re proud of it.
Well I remember you from the past, and I fully back the ‘commentariat’. Better if you stick to your own website, where you may get people who share your interests. I don’t.
It’s not straightforward Pete – Aotearoa is not the only name for what we now call NZ, which in Cook’s time was largely Te Ika O Maui & Tovypounamu. Bloke I knew did a paper on it – the skinny of which is that Aotearoa reflects a particular mystical view that is not necessarily universal. Sorry I don’t have a link to it.
We’re talking when Cook came through – there was no Maori alphabet as such at that time. Standardisation happened later, and some linguistic drift in a century or two would not be surprising.
The odd thing is that Aotearoa didn’t come up then. Now, in some places names are sacred & you don’t share them casually with outsiders – Kangaroo being a great example – it’s not the local word for the animal, it means something like “yep, look at them”.
The names Cook got were not that tabu. But I didn’t write the paper – can’t do it justice – just blindly taking Aotearoa might not make sense. We need background and context.
Still not convinced. Cook wrote the name Te Wai Pounamu to refer to the South Island on Maps in 1776 but can’t find any reference to it being called Tovypounamu anywhere
Claire Trevett piece today is really quite good (I know… not many here will agree!).
“Labour leader Andrew Little was quick to cry the poll was “bogus” and countered with Labour’s own poll which had a much more generous outlook for Labour.
Whoever’s poll is right, the One News poll does highlight two stark problems for Labour.
The very same poll showed an increase in concern about housing and imigration – the issues Labour claimed it was gaining votes from. The poll showed Labour was not capitalising from that.
The second problem was NZ First and the Greens were both safely above 10 per cent. That would mean Labour’s coalition partners combined were almost the same size as the Labour Party itself.
To swap analogies (why not?) from used cars to the familiar tail wagging the dog one, under MMP voters tend to like their dogs to have as tiny a tail as possible to ensure stable government.
National has three support partners but they are so small they are more like fleas in the general area of a tail.
As things stand, the Labour dog will need both NZ First and the Greens as tails. If Labour polls less than the mid 30s, that is akin to two German Shepherd tails thrashing in opposite directions on the rear end of a pug.
Physics dictates that would not end well for the pug. And as Scotty would say, ‘ye cannae change the law of physics.”
@Chuck 29+14+12=55 looks pretty stable to me, compared with the Right’s 4-headed monster (Seymour*/Dunne*/MP/Nats). I think hell will have to freeze over for Winnie to go with Key. Another indicator was on Backbenches this week where Tracey Martin was laying into boy-wonder Todd Barclay and the Nats in general. I think NZF will pick up votes on the immigration issue during the election campaign.
*I refuse to name these as parties-they are one-man bands. The MP may also become one soon.
Standardistas need to talk in Labour/Green bloc terms always. This counters the mid-20’s rubbish the right is trying to hijack the agenda with.
Nope. New Zealand uses the straight St Lague method to allocate seats to qualifying parties. Which means that usually only a little more than half a seat’s worth of votes is needed to be allocated one, and 1 1/2 seat’s worth to be allocated two. So ACT with 0.69% get a “legitimately allocated” seat, while United Future with 0.22% get the one overhang seat.
Another indicator was on Backbenches this week where Tracey Martin was laying into boy-wonder Todd Barclay and the Nats in general. I think NZF will pick up votes on the immigration issue during the election campaign.
Of course they’re laying into National, it’s where they see they can grow their vote, do you really think they’re going to get votes off the greens or labour?
Try and pick up a few more % points by convincing the more conservative element of National to to vote NZ first, that way NZ First has more leverage when they go into coalition with National.
yep, been saying it for years. Labour does not need a clear majority if they form a workable coalition with the other Opposition Parties. In fact should we get such a Government, and should the people elected care to represent and work for the people that got them elected it would be a ‘representative’ government.
but hey, the other one is winningest ro something.
“Whoever’s poll is right, the One News poll does highlight two stark problems for Labour”
That makes no sense at all. If the One News poll is not right, then it “highlights” no such thing. But let’s all forget that and wander happily into a conclusion based on an ignorant assumption.
Editractor it was the same poll that showed an increase in concern about housing and immigration, that also recorded support for the various political parties.
So on one hand, Andrew Little calls part of the poll “bogus” which he does not like, but accepts the other part re – housing and immigration.
The “stark problems for labour” that the author has referenced are that the people polled mostly said housing and immigration are a problem, but Labour went backwards (down 3%) and received 26% support from the same sample group.
It could be a “rouge poll” just as Andrew Little admits the Labour commissioned poll understates National party support (in other words he called his own poll rouge). 🙂
Already done that. Glad someone else sees you as a chump. But I guess you are likely to go for a minority opinion in your semi-literate state.
Happy now?
If I wasn’t a glass is half-full type of guy, I would say you come across as a self-righteous linguistic snob who want’s to make it clear how much smarter you are than the rest of us…
Buy hey I am a positive sort of guy, so its all good and I look forward to your next critique.
“Editractor it was the same poll that showed an increase in concern about housing and immigration, that also recorded support for the various political parties.
So on one hand, Andrew Little calls part of the poll “bogus” which he does not like, but accepts the other part re – housing and immigration.”
It might have been the same poll but they are two separate issues. It is quite possible for the poll to be inaccurate on one issue but not on the other so Little’s position on it is entirely reasonable.
“The “stark problems for labour” that the author has referenced…”
One or both of which are irrelevant if the poll is wrong on them.
My point is that the author starts by acknowledging uncertainty about the accuracy of the poll but then proceeds to make conclusions as if it were accurate.
To ice the big dollop it is, she then rolls out an analogy, though I liked the bit where she compared Act and the MP to parasites.
Horrible watching Norman spilling the lines on the nation. What a disappointment. Indigenous rights and middle class values around conservation often conflict and in this case imo this will cause lots of division and disgust.
Meanwhile bugger all being done around climate change – only bullshit greenwash. Nice one not.
There will be a backlash and all major parties won’t care. Tino rangatiratanga activists and those who worked on the original settlement care. This is where Māori will bind a bit and that will/should make the major parties fearful. The Treaty PARTNER will not be ignored, not any more.
Are you implying it’s now too late for the two to reach an acceptable agreement? And if the Maori Party come to some settlement Maori will then turn on the Maori Party?
National has a two decade record of being able to reach iwi settlements, so I imagine National have a fair idea of the parameters of what they will need to do.
If that were true they would have considered the radical notion of “talking to iwi first before making sweeping decisions affecting their settlements”.
More hit and run eh, or perhaps shit and run – pretty weak that you won’t back up your opinions just spray and walk away – not strength, and not courage.
I’m saying that if the Māori Party reach some agreement with the gnats that doesn’t appease activists and the original negotiators then it will still be opposed. From what I have read and heard an agreement that appeases the people that need appeasing can be reached.
I agree, Marty. There have been solutions offered by Māori that would enable a sanctuary without impinging on treaty rights or settlements.
This is a typical Nick Smith/John Key fuck-up and I am surprised it was been allowed to get to this stage. I am also horrified that Russel Norman seems to have no understanding of the problems of this legislation for Māori.
Marty, you do know that Labour has been regularly pointing out that Māori have not been consulted adequately on the Kermadec Sanctuary for over a year now?
Fascinating that National has, given this, clearly deliberately sidelined the Maori Party from a consultation process.
We need to ask why National has done this, and why 12 months out from an election, the Maori Party has now been given a cause to “stand up” against National.
Thanks Karen for that. I hope it can all be sorted – we do need to find a solution for this importan5 issue imo and it can be done if the meaning of partnership is upheld by the crown.
Norman seems to want that sanctuary really badly. Enough to ignore Māori perspectives. That sure makes it awkward for Turei or Davidson. I haven’t been following it that closely but the Greens seem very quiet on this whole issue, maybe they’ll just let it slide by.
BM you need to read the Treaty. Gives Maori all fishing rights in perpetuity. You don’t get to mess with that or the successor legislation without talking to Maori. In a democracy, a government should have talked to Pakeha too. Talking isn’t the Gnats strong point.
“The Ogre does what ogres can,
Deeds quite impossible for Man,
But one prize is beyond his reach:
The Ogre cannot master speech.
About a subjugated plain,
Among it’s desperate and slain,
The Ogre stalks with hands on hips,
While drivel gushes from his lips.”
Te Tiriti Ō Waitangi does not apply to the Kermadecs because they weren’t part of NZ at the time and Māori didn’t fish them as part of their territorial waters either any way. So traditional fishing rights, as guaranteed under Te Tiriti, simply do not apply.
For people to claim that they do is for them to try and rewrite history.
You don’t get to mess with that or the successor legislation without talking to Maori.
And yet that is what Māori do seem to be trying to do.
National have deliberately engineered a gift issue 12 months out from the election which will then allow the Maori Party to go out and campaign and claim “independence” by “standing up to” National over something (fishing around the Kermadecs) with no practical value or meaning or thought time for 99% of Kiwis.
cv you are a knob – not everything is coloured orange fool – fuck north is right about you being a embarrassment every time you blurt your bullshit.
dtb – you have very little credibility and what you say is next to meaningless because you don’t get even the simple fundamental truths – sorry to burst your ego balloon. For instance you wrote – “Te Tiriti Ō Waitangi does not apply to the Kermadecs” yet IT WAS part of the settlement that is why there is an issue now – this is the most basic simplistic fact about the whole deal. Sure I get you don’t WANT it to be like that – but it is.
Marty Mars, Labour was highlighting National’s lack of consultation with iwi in 2015 over the Kermadecs.
It seems obvious that this process was stitched up way back then as a way for the Maori Party to demonstrate independence from National just 12 months ahead of the general election.
Labour knew in 2015 that National was not consulting with iwi over the Kermadecs, and said so on broadcast TV.
Therefore the Maori Party were more than aware of the same, if not more details.
However both National and the Maori Party let things proceed as they were.
All the way along until now, just 12 months before the next general election and National pushes ahead with the legislation.
The Maori Party suddenly raises very public and very serious concerns, and immediately, National abruptly realise the shortcomings in their consultation process and are forced to pull their proposed bill out of the legislative process.
A big win for the Maori Party who can truthfully claim not just that they have the “backbone” to stand up to John Key, but that they have “real sway” and demonstrable influence over the National Government.
Along the way, the Maori Party get to amply illustrate that Labour and the Greens don’t really care that much about Treaty rights and Treaty settlements.
Brilliant stuff to campaign on, going into an election year.
An co-engineered between the Maori Party and National from the start, for the electoral benefit of both.
(National who gains from the red neck white vote by having not including iwi in this important Treaty relevant process).
“Labour knew in 2015 that National was not consulting with iwi over the Kermadecs, and said so on broadcast TV.
Therefore the Maori Party were more than aware of the same, if not more details.”
your therefore is not true – you don’t know and cannot know (unless someone says it) that it is true – it is SPECULATION from which you draw conclusion after conclusion to fit your internal story and convince yourself that you are right and have some insight – all based on a therefore which IS NOT true.
so nice fairy tale
please get this – you are projecting, you don’t know – but hey chuck the link up (about the therefore not the bit before) and I will go wow you are right.
conspiracy types always make the story fit their preconceived ideas
Norman seems to want that sanctuary really badly. Enough to ignore Māori perspectives.
I really don’t get this. I’m as White as it gets, but even I can see a glaringly obvious Treaty grievance arising out of it. Given the events of the last 176 years, it ought to be clear enough why you shouldn’t negotiate a national fisheries agreement with Maori and then unilaterally remove fishing rights from thousands of square kilometers without even bothering to mention it to your Treaty partner. The fact that marine sanctuaries are a Good Thing doesn’t change that in the slightest.
We all want more and bigger marine sanctuaries, so opponents of any particular marine sanctuary must be Bad People;
Maori have commercial fishing interests, which could be seen as a conflict of interest;
But the big one is that it’s easy for Pakeha to support Treaty rights as long as it doesn’t affect something that’s important to us. I don’t exclude myself from this: if the government wants to give the Urewera back to Tuhoi, sure, absolutely, no skin off my nose – but if the government wanted to give my suburb back to Rangitane and included my property in the deal, I expect I’d find it hard to be supportive of the idea and might start looking for spurious reasons why it would be completely wrong for Maori claims involving my property to be recognised. People who feel strongly about the Kermadec marine sanctuary are possibly experiencing that same feeling.
The Greens. Not because the can or will do that immediately, but because the more votes they get the closet they can operate to their core values (seriously, read their core documents).
Neoliberalism will be disbanded by the people. The parties will follow. Best chance is from the Greens.
Btw, I haven’t watched the interview yet but Norman isn’t a formal part of the Green Party, and we need to be careful to not conflate his position with theirs.
Totally agree with you weka.
The Green’s have been arguing the need for more marine sanctuaries for years now. Marine sanctuaries are the only way humans can hope to holt the rapidly depletion of a vital natural resource. Never the less the Green’s along with Labour in their minority view on the Bill as it was reported to Parliament stated:
The lack of consultation with iwi by the Crown prior to the Government’s announcement on the international stage of the proposed creation of a Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary has been unsatisfactory. It fell well short of expectations under Te Tiriti o Waitangi. This has been reflected in submissions opposing the bill.
The Green Party recognises that non-governmental organisations such as the Pew Foundation, WWF New Zealand, Forest and Bird, and others have engaged in extensive public discussion, including two science symposia, art exhibitions, and discussions with mana whenua about a proposed Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary over the last seven years. This is not a substitute for the Crown consulting with mana whenua and other iwi.
Thanks, that’s very interesting and as per usual the Greens present a deeper and more thoughtful perspective than they are given credit for.
It does raise the issue of the select committee process and how much it is largel ignored in public debate.
For me the thing missing here is that we have a desperate need for sanctuaries because how general way if operating is so destructive, and we are stuck in the whole neoliberal/conservation polarity. Ultimately it doesn’t move us past the primary way of operating and quite possibly entrenches it.
As per usual with this govt there wasn’t much time for public debate on this issue nor time for people to make public submissions:
The Kermadec Ocean Sanctuary Bill was referred to the committee on 15 March 2016. The closing date for submissions was 28 April 2016.
We received and considered 82 unique submissions from interested groups and individuals, and a form submission representing 1,084 submitters. We heard oral evidence from 18 submitters.
We received advice from the Ministry for the Environment, the Department of Conservation, the Ministry for Primary Industries, the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, as well as the Parliamentary Counsel Office.
as I have noted above the conflict that can occur between the rights of indigenous peoples and middle class conservation values is well known – at least within indigenous communities 🙁
labour – “We believe it is wrong that the bill undermines the rights arising from the Treaty of Waitangi (Fisheries Claims) Settlement Act 1992, which were meant to be “full and final”, and in particular those fishing rights relating to Fisheries Management Area 10.”
greens – “Concerns raised by Te Ohu Kaimoana and some iwi authorities that the bill breaches Treaty rights and interferes with quota rights conferred by the Treaty of Waitangi (Fisheries Claims) Settlement Act are complex. Such concerns are most appropriately resolved by the courts or by negotiation between iwi and the Crown, rather than select committee.”
got to say labour’s lines are better than the greens on this one – both supported the bill, both have put negotiated settlement rights of indigenous peoples behind the right to have a protected conservation area. This is pretty well what always happens and that is why many indigenous communities are suspicious of conservationists – who pretty well want people out so they can enjoy the peace and quiet of nature.
This btw is EXACTLY the same with climate change. You change but not us. Indigenous communities are fighting for the protection of Papatūānuku and have been well before the middle class conservationists decided to stop destroying and start saving – but that is forgotten in their Avatar like redemption of the brownish by the whiteish and their rewriting the narratives with them as the hero – every.single.time.
Marty – what you appear to say here is that there can never be another Marine sanctuary within the NZ EEZ because it would contravene the full and final settlement of the Treaty of Waitangi (Fisheries Claims) Settlement Act! This would be an extreme position to take.
The prime purpose of Marine Sanctuaries is not to reduce the number of fish that can be caught – their purpose is to allow fish places to breed and ultimately for fish numbers to rejuvenate to sustainable levels. At present we (and here I include us all) are stripping our oceans clean, and this present behaviour is simple unsustainable. The provision of Marine sanctuaries does not remove the right of Maori to fish nor to limit the quota set under the Settlement. These issues are complex and I totally agree that “Such concerns are most appropriately resolved by the courts or by negotiation between iwi and the Crown, rather than select committee.”
There is a point in the progression of ethical behaviour when the good of the whole trumps individual rights or any other right.
Yes Marine sanctuaries are great – hell, make the whole ocean a sanctuary imo.
Yes the current stripping of our oceans is unsustainable – one of the reasons I no longer eat fish actually and haven’t for years. And yes we need spots where the fish populations can replenish.
I believe that a position where all parties were happy could have, and maybe still could, be reached. That certainly seems to be the position of Te Ohu Kaimoana. I’d be happy with that too.
But I’d ask the question why? Why make sanctuaries? To ensure the replenishment of species and ecosystems? Why do that? To ensure all living entities including humans, have the ability and right to survive and flourish? Okay but if you have to destroy or ignore or trample on the rights of indigenous peoples to be able to create areas where people and ecosystems can flourish then I’d argue it is hypocrisy especially as no non-indigenous peoples are being treated the same. This is colonisation and belittling and othering. This is why this country isn’t Aotearoa but instead New Zealand and this is why Māori are not given their LEGAL and MORALLY due rights as PARTNERS.
The real irony is that indigenous peoples are the BEST at protecting the ecosystems and creatures within them, including humans. They are much much better than the exploitative and destructive western societies who, frankly, have created this mess we have to sort out. But what sacrifices are they making? What are they doing about climate change? Answer – NOTHING. They want everyone else to make the sacrifices and save them – well they can get fucked.
This world is this world. The good of the whole would require the western exploitative countries to fall off the map – then we can save shit.
I know it is a rant and I know I’m generalising and making all sorts of statements where I’m included on both/all sides. I am doing this to show the hypocrisy of the whole debate.
I’m pretty sure they don’t even want to fish there – the whole thing is about binding agreements being made with indigenous partners and then breaking those agreements BECAUSE they were made with indigenous partners and that category of partner is well down the prioritisation list and can be discarded (or so they thought in their 1870’s mindset) easily without fuss, just like all the other times the crown has done it.
”The real irony is that indigenous peoples are the BEST at protecting the ecosystems and creatures within them, ”
Oh come on now marty i’ve known more than one maori chap who was a shocking poacher.
– a pretence that he cares about the environment
– a self-serving act so he has something ‘noble’ in his ‘legacy’
– useful that it makes him look good to environmentally concerned film stars and world leaders who he wants to rub shoulders with…
– a blatant set-up and dog-whistle to his fanboys…. another excuse for them to denigrate Maori
Collective not individual. The system in place now has disenfranchised and disempowered so many indigenous peoples – remember colonisation??? The ability to live sustainably was inherent in survival and Māori and other indigenous peoples survived.
It is utter arrogance to think someone from some no name town in Britannia knows more about sustainability and living in the Amazon than the indigenous people living there.
As for the Moa – yep they are gone and believe it or not there are many factors that contributed to their extinction, including being hunted for food and loss of habitat due to fire (some deliberately and some naturally occurring). The middens do tell a story but not the only story. Plus I said the BEST and it is true that others that aren’t indigenous are horror shows for animals and ecosystems. That doesn’t mean Māori or other indigenous peoples were saintly but they were so much better than western peoples.
Yes locus I agree with all of your points and that is why I get so disappointed with some comments on this and why I bought that up in regards to the panel with norman.
The real irony is that indigenous peoples are the BEST at protecting the ecosystems and creatures within them, including humans.
No, they’re not. They’re just as bad as Pakeha. The just didn’t have the technology and population to do the same total damage but they still did massive amounts of damage.
“By the time European settlement began, around 1840, some 6.7 million hectares of forest had been destroyed and was replaced by short grassland, shrubland and fern land. Between 1840 and 2000, another 8 million hectares were cleared, mostly lowland or easily accessible conifer–broadleaf forest.”
from your own link dicko
6.7 million hectares is less than 8 million hectares isn’t it????
so when you say ,”They’re just as bad as Pakeha” you are just being a bigot.
6.7 million hectares is less than 8 million hectares isn’t it????
Wow, really, I would never have known that.
Of course, if they were truly as environmentally friendly as you say it would have been ZERO.
If Māori had continued in that fashion then the land would have ended up being just as denuded as we have now. It may have taken longer but the damage would still have been done.
Sorry weka can’t see any chance of that happening anytime soon. The Greens are a 10% – 13% party. The Greens only chance to be part of a Government is by hanging onto the coattails of Labour.
The Greens don’t have much ability to negotiate with Labour (no leverage) and thus no radical policy shifts will be approved by their master, Labour. It is amplified even more if a Lab/Gr party need to rely on NZF to govern.
Your best chance to dismantle (so called) neo-liberalism in NZ would be to gut the Labour party of any remaining centre left people. Then in conjunction with the Greens “go for it” and see how many voters you can convince…
Getting rid of the hardcore neoliberalism from Labour would be a huge help but you missed my point. Neoliberalism will die in NZ at the behest of the people with political parties following the people.
“By ground swell, it would need to be massive, in the hundreds of thousands at the very least.”
yes and no. Change always happens on the edge first. We have a Green Party in large part because of people who thought differently back in the day. They were small numbers who ended up with big influence. A lot of change happens like that.
“Can’t see that happening any time soon.”
That’s what people used to say about slavery or apartheid in South Africa. Women getting the vote. Lots of examples.
The thing that stood out for me was that the 2 Pakeha appeared to be arguing that the Crown should ignore the treaty if it thinks Māori interests run counter to its own. Not that that’s not without precedent but I agree, very disappointing from Norman. He did say he thought the lack of consultation was wrong but it was one sentence amongst many others which seemed to ignore the Treaty 🙁
I liked what Forbes said about the differences between Māori and Pakeha views on conservation, would love to have seen a whole debate on that alone. It would have taken us somewhere more useful perhaps.
I was impressed by both Mihi and Russell. Both view points have merit, it’s such a pity that the stupid Nats have lost the chance for Maori to make a great contribution to Conservation. You can argue Treaty rights as much as you like but conservation is paramount in our rapidly deteriorating environment so good on Russell for his strong stand.
My greatest fear about the whole issue is whatever we come up with we will be too bloody under sourced to patrol/manage the area. We can’t even do our local sanctuaries adequately.
“You can argue Treaty rights as much as you like but conservation is paramount in our rapidly deteriorating environment so good on Russell for his strong stand.”
Yep as long as someone else is affected or has their rights discarded she’s all good.
Any examples where non indigenous peoples are making sacrifices like that?
Just joking – I know we are trying to stop using plastic bags and ummm yeah that’s right we sort of recycle into the rubbish tip and ummm…
It has been suggested elsewhere that this is a set-up. With agreement in advance, National leave out Maori, providing Tuku and his Maori Party with the opportunity to posture greatly and stand up for Maori with much righteousness, and in so doing justify Maori Party policy of cuddling up to the Nats. And the Maori elite continue to grow rich at the expense of most of the rest of their race, which puts us all in the same horrible basket. People of all races can now enjoy the same penury equally, while all the right people get voted in again.
Or am I even more paranoid now than I was back when I was not quite sure whether I was paranoid enough?
Yep, giving the Maori Party an issue going into election year to prove to the electorate that the Maori Party is indeed “independent” and can indeed “stand up to” National.
Considering that just last week the greasy whale was driving wedges between tainui and labour i would say you have every right to be sceptical about the maori parties activities.
I am listening to Annette Sykes on this one and other Māori activists not the Māori Party and to be clear I don’t agree with everything Annette says on many things – but this one seems clear to me.
Perhaps it is all a plan to get the Māori Party in with gusto – I hope not as I’m a left wing Mana Movement supporter. You’ve made me feel paranoid now 🙂
edit @cv – nah you are definitely too paranoid
@ waggy – skeptical is a very good word there.
It’s very hard to have patience for people who leave a country then shit all over it from a distance. She could have stayed and tried to fix what she doesn’t like. And blaming a country because some muppets made her watch a slaughter show a lack of depth of thought.
“When the Roast Busters made headlines, they did so because they talked about their alleged exploits online, which meant that people outside our culture became aware of it.
Although the first complaints were made in 2011 by girls as young as 13, the police investigation sputtered along until 2013 when the story got picked up by international media. Headlines such as Jezebel’s New Zealand Teen Rape Club is the Worst Thing You’ll Read About Today embarrassed us.
We really, really hate being embarrassed in front of foreigners.”
It sums up BM really and where he stands on NZ rape culture …..”
He really, really hates being embarrassed in front of foreigners.
NZ has a lot of problems. That article doesn’t offer much useful in way of understanding it or finding solutions. I’m all for s good moan fest to get things off ones chest but I question the value of doing that ins national newspaper.
I also question her ability to reflect or do basic research. The anecdote about pain relief is common in many countries. It’s not a NZ thing It’s a medical services dynamic. Which makes me wonder about her ability to form an argument that is meaningful beyond her own antipathy.
People getting treated badly at A and E when they seek pain meds happens lots of places. Anyone suspected of being a drug user, or lying about pain to access drugs can get treated badly. Her using that story is a good example of why her article is overblown and comes across as rhetoric.
Of course the problems need to be discussed (that’s a given in this forum) but as I said I don’t think she is adding much useful to the conversation.
Implying that her antipathy is all she’s got is clearly incorrect. She supplied a number of notable references throughout the series thus far.
Her use of that story is obviously because it stood out for her. The refusal of pain relief shouldn’t be determined and withheld on the mere grounds a patient asked for it.
Moreover, that example was merely one small snippet compared to what the series contains. But you’re correct, the example is anecdotal. Nonetheless, there is a prevailing harden up culture in NZ.
I agree. Her anecdote about animal slaughter actually shows how humane the animal was slaughtered, and her memory of the event, I’d say, is slightly faulty; the animal would have been skinned before it was guttered.
“(The animal) followed him trustingly, balking just a little at the sight of a man striding towards it holding a rifle.”
An animal doesn’t know what a rifle is or does ffs.
“At the age of eight, I was dragged into an initiation familiar to all readers of New Zealand’s manly literature: witnessing a slaughter.”
‘initiation’, ‘dragged’ Really? Garbage!
” Which makes me wonder about her ability to form an argument that is meaningful beyond her own antipathy.”
Perfectly put Weka.
NO, I was a sensitive kid & was appalled to follow my father into a field at the age of about 4-5 & watch him catch a sheep & run a knife through it neck then let it keep running finally stumbling in a heap of blood & limbs & noise. Also being thrown into a pool when I could not swim & laughed at as I got out crying & told to ‘harden up’. If you are a sensitive wee soul then NZ is indeed a brutal country. Actually look at how many comments tell her to ‘harden up’, pretty much proving her point. It’s only her view & experience, I am sure she has had as much joy & laughter as the rest of us. NZrs hate criticism, & the disassembling of sacred cows like rugby, hunting & man alone bullshit. Well tough shit. One more thing, look at NZs appalling suicide rates of not just children but young men, there’s something rotten in the state of ‘godzone’ that we refuse to acknowledge.
That’s an indictment on your father both because he ill treated the sheep and insulted you.
I think your father was an outrageous brute and your reaction to that and being thrown into a pool when you couldn’t swim, doesn’t make you a sensitive wee soul, just an emotionally abused child.
It makes me feel sick to think of a child being insulted and abused like that.
Your account of the sheep slaughter is not my experience of how farm kill was carried out. We never watched our father killing the household meat because there was no reason to; it wasn’t a spectacle.
Your experience and mine doesn’t make NZ culture.
But this “, look at NZs appalling suicide rates of not just children but young men.” is shameful.
It’s true “there’s something rotten in the state of ‘godzone’ that we refuse to acknowledge”
I did not say my experience made NZ culture did I?
My dad was brought up on a Waikato farm in the 50s, he was a young stupid ignorant immature man in his 20s , now he is mellow & more knowing &I think he’s great! Also, my experience is not that uncommon, both the brutal animal slaughter & being forced to learn how to swim in those horrible cold concrete pools all schools used to have.
Also read the comments on the articles, plenty people think kids watching animals die is great character building material & makes kids respect meat, apparently!
Not only is she speaking from her own experiences (which some would also widely share) she illustrates how they manifest through attitudes and actions in society.
One recent example being the Roast Busters ordeal. More recently the Chiefs.
She discusses our binge drinking culture, procreation, homophobia and rugby culture.
She highlights (amongst other things) that in the United Nations Report on the Status of Women published in 2011, New Zealand was ranked worst of all OECD countries in rates of sexual violence.
The series is titled ‘New Zealand is no paradise, it is brutal’ – highlighting some of the more sinister parts of our culture, thus it isn’t going to be a complimentary piece.
I also question her ability to reflect or do basic research. The anecdote about pain relief is common in many countries. It’s not a NZ thing It’s a medical services dynamic. Which makes me wonder about her ability to form an argument that is meaningful beyond her own antipathy.
Yes. I read the first one, spent most of it thinking “FFS, do you imagine that’s peculiar to NZ?” or “Have you actually visited any other countries?”, and decided not to bother with any further installments.
I have read both articles and, for me, on both occasions warning bells have rung. There is something contrived, ott, or ‘worst case scenario’ about it all. I suspect it is fiction. Worse still I fear I agree with BM ( minus the raving leftie bit) on this.
edit: She wants to destroy your Second Amendment… Guns, guns, guns, right? I think what we should do, is, she goes around with armed bodyguards like you have never seen before. I think that her bodyguards should drop all weapons, they should disarm, right? Right? I think they should disarm. Immediately. Whaddaya think, yes? Yes. Yeah. Take their guns away! She doesn’t want guns. Take their, let’s see what happens to her. Take their guns away. OK?
Trump is quite right. The Secret Service would be completely unable to protect Clinton without their standard side arms and the submachine guns/assault rifles that they have available close to every VIP protectee.
Deutsche Bank, one of the world’s very largest banks, sold a lot of bad securities that ended up contributing to the 2008 Great Recession. Now, the Wall Street Journal reports that the US government is trying to hold the German bank accountable, demanding it pay $14 billion in settlements for its alleged malfeasance.
[…]
Deutsche, for its part, is flatly rejecting the $14 billion price tag. “Deutsche Bank has no intent to settle these potential civil claims anywhere near the number cited,” it said in a statement. A source told the Journal that it expected to pay somewhere closer to $1.9 billion.
Another possibility, which Coffee warned me not to discount, is that Deutsche is simply waiting for the US election to end — on the hope that a Donald Trump presidency, unlikely as it may seem, might drop the case entirely.
CV really is nought but a shit-stirring polemicist (aka troll) who’s unwittingly painted him/her self into the discomforting corner of ‘having’ to blow wetter and wetter kisses to the twisted narcissist Trump.
Like a runaway fucking locomotive there is no stopping him/her at this point. Fucking tiresome actually and quite deleterious of TS……from someone whom in my observations over a long period has postured unabashed as not simply attractively Left but consummately, seminally, unmatched so.
Might well be a case of catatonic, runaway ego expression of course. Which Praise Be is CV’s personal problem and has nothing to do with Left/Right/Whatever. “Humph Humph Trumph Trumph ! Fuck the Left in all its manifestations !
I am always right, simply because I say so, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.
Credibility and plain old hoha is an issue here. Oh Dear…….
Delicious and yummy yummy CV ! Sounds like this “effete intellectual snob” has hit the ego-burdened Trumph Troll’s panic button…….what say you omnipresent darling ?
Let’s be basic Trumph Troll. You make a fucking fool of yourself. The consummate, unequalled Leftie, hard out pashing Trumph. Wow !
What are you on. North? I have tried to be mean to Chuck, Maninamuddle, and BM, but with good reason..
Your rant is over the top. CV often makes damn good sense to me.
And by the way, I think ‘deleterious to’ or ‘for’ TS would be more correct than ‘deleterious of’.
I mention that in sympathy with CV’s comment re ‘hack theatrical reviews’.
Pettifoggery is the correct noun, just to prove your point. The problem is that you yourself go so far out of anyone’s way to sound erudite.
That pettifogging point was only ‘by the way’ – the main point was questioning your apparent hatred of CV. Your vituperous verbosity was excessively hyperbolic.
I think there is a huge difference between the situation where a trained, sober, professional soldier/policeman is carrying a gun for protection of another; and, an untrained, possibly drunk or high civilian with little discipline or reason to carry weapons except for reasons of self-esteem or image.
The other difference is that American gun enthusiasts confuse the purpose of their Constitution whereby an armed militia may carry weapons for defence of the state, and civilians who want to carry guns, as I understand the original purpose of the amendment.
Trump is wrong because he confuses the situation of a ‘militiaman’ or Secret Service agent with an ordinary citizen. There is a huge difference in training, purpose, discipline, sobriety and rules of use.
Arguing for basic gun control is obviously different to demanding total disarmament including law enforcement.
Once again people’s desperate need to hate Hillary Clinton is making them approve of absurdly illogical but seriously threatening statements from Trump.
No, CV, he is arguing for the citizenry to be armed as well, in an illogical and dangerous way. As is his wont. I didn’t argue for disarmament of citizens either. I argued against untrained, drug-imbalanced, insane, kids having access to guns which are essentially military-purposed and capable of massacre- as opposed to a militia being armed with ball and powder, muzzle-loading weapons, in 1791!
A nutter with a muzzle loader would only get one shot away before being overpowered. A nutter with a weapon firing in excess of a 1000 rounds a minute, with quick loading magazines- another matter. It’s also a bit difficult to hide a 149 cm Brown Bess musket about the person.
I don’t understand your second sentence in your reply to me above. It looks like another blasted computer-knows-better spelling typhoon………….
He’s blowing an issue entirely out of proportion to avoid having a real discussion while unsubtly hinting that someone should violently assault his opponent.
If people have any understanding of the US gun debate (and can put aside any desperate need they have to disagree with Clinton on everything) they appreciate how serious this is.
It’s rather like a David Cronenberg film (not The Dead Zone, though there are certain echoes) but The Brood, where Trump is the avatar of his supporters’ rage, or vice versa.
quote:
“Elizabeth Warren hasn’t left the financial crisis behind—she wants the FBI to hand over the records of its investigations into criminal behavior at Wall Street banks before the crash.
And she says she has grounds to do so after federal law enforcement officials gave extraordinary public access to their investigation of Hillary Clinton’s e-mail server.”Quote End.
Nothing to do with wanton acts of political sabotage by the PLP then? Just blame the guy who harnessed a mass movement and increased Labour membership to record levels.. really James you are being a bit simpleminded
Not at all – what I was pointing out is that there are people like you, who are fine in a small little echo chamber with people like yourself who think you are all smart – and then there is the rest of the population who vote for the other guys leaving you surprised yet again when you are in opposition.
“But what sets Trump supporters apart from the people who supported other candidates is their endorsement of vile stereotypes about people of color. Anti-black and -Muslim stereotypes are the strongest predictor of Trump support I was able to find — far more powerful than economic factors.”
No, it has all regions though some are still to be completed. My link is Auckland because that was the page I was looking at but easy to get to the others.
If you tell your tenants no pets inside then they let pets piss all over the carpet then i think they should pay.
The fire case is completely different from that , and the court was right to not make the tenants pay.
It’s the comments I was highlighting, not the case itself. Any excuse at all to deride tenants as a group is gleefully taken up by the the amateur landlord class.
I’d be interested to know what the Tribunal decision said. On the face of it it doesn’t make sense.
Re the comments, there is a mix there of the two cases (which are quite different), so it’s a big hard to tell what the general response is. Criticising the lastest Tribunal decision seems valid to me and not-anti-renter.
“I wanted to believe that sharing my experience with them would make them understand. And even more important, that understanding would breed action; but that’s where the disconnect arose. My sons understand, as best as teenage boys can. But they aren’t willing to sacrifice their own comfort for my sake, or for anyone else. When it comes to speaking out against rape culture and questioning their own ideas and behaviour, they become angry and defensive. Not all men, they remind me, and my guts wrench as my own sons mimic the vitriol of a thousand online trolls.”
You wouldn’t let your kids call a girl a slut or a whore. You probably wouldn’t lecture them about sexual politics over dinner until they wish laryngitis on you either.
You think it’s okay to reduce a woman talking about her own experience, and trying to get her sons to understand how to have respectful relationships, to “lecturing them about sexual politics”?
In the body count it’s still 1000-1 against the sub-human “sand nigger” Palestinians. Talk about racism !
Nelson Mandela knew those neo-nazi zionists for what they are. Seventy years ago even Ben Gurion understood the Palestinians’ plight. “We’re taking their land – of course they hate us”.
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Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
A significant milestone has been reached in the fight to strike an anti-Pasifika and unfair law from the country’s books after Teanau Tuiono’s members’ bill passed its first reading. ...
New Zealand has today missed the opportunity to uphold the right to a clean, healthy, and sustainable environment, says James Shaw after his member’s bill was voted down in its first reading. ...
Today’s advice from the Climate Change Commission paints a sobering reality of the challenge we face in combating climate change, especially in light of recent Government policy announcements. ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Ngaio Marsh House is one of Christchurch’s best kept secrets – and contains more than a few mysteries of its own.Trust Ngaio Marsh to leave more than a few mysteries scattered through her house long after her departure. For a start, there’s the curious concrete portal in the garden, ...
Appointment viewing has been lost to the mists of time, but memories of Montana Sunday Theatre can still be conjured by hitting play on a particular piece of classical music. “You’re not going to be able to sell it.” Over 30 years on, Karen Bieleski still recalls how the task ...
Performance Review King Luxon sat behind His massive polished oak desk. It is Performance Review time. There is a knock on the door. “Enter!” says the King. In steps Minister of Disabilities and Carer Pedicures, Penny Simmonds. “I can explain everything …” she begins. “Fine,” says King Luxon, pressing the ...
The pair opened their first fully collaborative exhibition, Nina for Flowers, last Saturday. Gabi Lardies visited their studio to find out who Nina is and what working together was like.‘It didn’t start out like, ‘This is a show about Nina,’” says Josephine Jelicich, gripping a thermos of peppermint tea. ...
Thank you, Dr Maximilian Oskar Bircher-Benner, for your brilliant invention. I’m another mid-20s Kiwi who had an OE last year. I hopped on my bicycle where France meets the Atlantic and cycled east. I pedalled through the Loire Valley, down rivers lined with willows and ancient wisteria-draped chateaus. I relished ...
Asia Pacific Report From France to Australia, university pro-Palestine protests in the United States have now spread to several countries with students pitching on-campus camps. And students at Columbia and other US universities remain defiant as campuses have witnessed the biggest protests since the anti-Vietnam war and anti-apartheid eras in ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)New Zealand Government’s Fast Track legislation. Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government ...
Tara Ward talks to presenter Naomi Toilalo about the new TV show that turns food waste into a three course feast. Naomi Toilalo is standing in the warehouse at Good Neighbour Tauranga, helping unpack the two-and-a-half tonnes of rejected food that will arrive at the community support hub that day. ...
Scout is our latest Dog of the Month. This feature was offered as a reward during our What’s Eating Aotearoa PledgeMe campaign. Thank you to Scout’s human, Avril, for her support. Dog name: Scout (named after the little girl in To Kill a Mockingbird – she inherited the independent spirit ...
Megan Alatini takes us through her life in TV, including ‘terrible’ daytime TV, the class of Carol Hirschfeld and her most embarrassing TrueBliss moment. When she responded to a vague newspaper ad asking “do you have what it takes to be a popstar?” 25 years ago, Megan Alatini never guessed ...
A new exhibition in Wellington showcases the faces behind your local goods and services. Back in 1977, when I was a fine arts student at the University of Canterbury, I took a series of photographs of Christchurch shopkeepers. The photos were for a calendar – a project for my end ...
Toomaj and his resistance to tyranny through his songs have become an icon for the youth of Iran, so his sentence has hit the nation hard. Toomaj Salehi is not the first artist to pay the price for standing with the people. ...
My cousin Dylan and I spotted these big eels under the bridge that summer. We watched them lounging under the dark weed, facing into the flow of water, their mouths frozen open. Dylan and I couldn’t stop thinking about those eels. The night we went down to the creek, we ...
Newsroom, home of satire. My long-running weekly satirical series The Secret Diary has moved to Newsroom and will appear every Saturday, with Victor Billot’s wildly popular satirical Odes continuing to appear every Sunday. Diaries, Odes – while serious political columnists toil at meaningful opinions and stroke their chins to an ...
Tara Ward unravels the many nuanced layers of a cartoon about talking dogs.This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. It’s not often an episode of a children’s cartoon has adults sobbing into their sleeves, but that’s exactly what happened this week when ...
Working as a doctor in developing countries to help communities achieve better health outcomes is nothing short of a life goal for Jessica Tater. The University of Otago medical student has her sights firmly set on joining the international humanitarian organisation Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) when she qualifies ...
There’s an island in the far reaches of Auckland’s territory, sitting off the tip of the Coromandel Peninsula, 30 minutes by air from the city or four hours on the slow boat. Aotea Great Barrier is off-grid, it has a population of fewer than a thousand people … and most ...
Asia Pacific Report An Australian author and advocate, Jim Aubrey, today led a national symbolic one minute’s silence to mark the “blood debt” owed to Papuan allies during the Second World War indigenous resistance against the invading Japanese forces. “A promise to most people is a promise,” Aubrey said in ...
Asia Pacific Report The Freedom Flotilla is ready to sail to Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. All the required paperwork has been submitted to the port authority, and the cargo has been loaded and prepared for the humanitarian trip to the besieged enclave. However, organisers received word of an “administrative ...
Pacific Media Watch Palestine solidarity protesters today demonstrated at the Auckland headquarters of Television New Zealand, accusing the country’s major TV network of broadcasting “propaganda” backing Israel’s genocidal war on Gaza. About 50 protesters targeted the main entrance to the TVNZ building near Sky Tower and also picketed a side ...
Opinion by Lynley Hood. Forty years on from my 1985 Fulbright Grant, my disquiet over the war in Gaza evoked some troubling questions. The answer to my first question – What is the primary purpose of the Fulbright Programme? – was on the Fulbright NZ website. It says: US Senator, ...
The ministers responsible for green-lighting major projects need to be open about potential conflicts of interest, says Transparency International. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anastasia Powell, Professor, Family and Sexual Violence, RMIT University It has been a particularly distressing start to the year. There is little that can ease the current grief of individuals, families and communities who have needlessly lost a loved one to men’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Lichen, the first described example of symbiosis.AdeJ Artventure/Shutterstock Once known only to those studying biology, the word symbiosis is now widely used. Symbiosis is the intimate ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kim Hemsley, Head, Childhood Dementia Research Group, Flinders Health and Medical Research Institute, College of Medicine and Public Health, Flinders University Olena Ivanova/Shutterstock “Childhood” and “dementia” are two words we wish we didn’t have to use together. But sadly, around 1,400 ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Whiteford, Professor, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University The government’s Economic Inclusion Advisory Committee has just published its second report. It was set up by Treasurer Jim Chalmers and Minister for Social Services Amanda Rishworth in 2022 to provide: ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne The Queensland state election will be held in October. A YouGov poll for The Courier Mail, conducted April 9–17 from a sample ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amin Naeni, PhD candidate at Alfred Deakin Institute for Citizenship and Globalisation, Deakin University There’s been much talk in recent months about what a possible second Donald Trump presidency in the United States could mean for Europe, Russia’s war in Ukraine, the ...
A brief round-up of submissions on the controversial proposed law. This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. Last week, submissions on the controversial Fast-track Approvals Bill closed just hours after the government released a list of stakeholder organisations who were sent letters advising how they could ...
A poem from Robin Peace’s new collection Detritus of Empire: feather / grass / rock. Cereal giving I see a woman’s hands, see her curious hands break a stalk as she walks through the tall prairie, the savannah, the steppe, wherever it was. See her idly bite the grass that ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Hemingway’s Goblet by Dermot Ross (Mary Egan Publishing, $38)A handsomely produced (debossed cover, lovely ...
The Commissioner's decision validates the longstanding efforts of the local community and ensures that Awataha Marae will be managed to serve the needs of the local community, particularly for hosting tangihanga. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tristan Salles, Associate professor, University of Sydney Examples of Australian landscapes.Unsplash Seventy thousand years ago, the sea level was much lower than today. Australia, along with New Guinea and Tasmania, formed a connected landmass known as Sahul. Around this time – ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Felicity Castagna, Lecturer, Creative Writing, Western Sydney University Day Day Market, ParramattaPhoto: Garry Trinh I live on the edge of Parramatta, Australia’s fastest-growing city, on the kind of old-fashioned suburban street that has 1950s fibros constructed in the post-war housing boom, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Ryan, Teaching Fellow in Economics, University of Waikato GettyImagesfatido/Getty Images There is an ongoing global debate over whether the high inflation seen in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic can be lowered without a recession. New Zealand is not ...
The ‘Wicked Game’ heartthrob is in his late 60s now. That didn’t stop him putting on a lively, goofy and very sparkly show. Apart from ‘Wicked Game’, which graces a sultry playlist of mine simply called 💋, my last sustained Chris Isaak listening session took place when I was about ...
Analysis - Two ministers were stripped of portfolios in a warning to Cabinet, drama broke out at the Waitangi Tribunal, and the gang patch ban bill ran into opposition. ...
Tara Ward makes an impassioned plea for some vital pop culture merch. In April 1999, I became obsessed with a new reality television show called Popstars. Every Tuesday night, five strangers transformed into music royalty before my very eyes as Joe, Keri, Carly, Erika and Megan were chosen to form ...
PNG Post-Courier In the early hours of ANZAC Day, aerial photographs captured an impressive gathering of Australians and Papua New Guineans at Isurava in the Northern (Oro) Province. The solemn dawn service yesterday was held at a site steeped in history, where some of the fiercest battles of World War ...
The PSA is shocked that Oranga Tamariki has used the cost cutting drive to downgrade its commitment to Te Ao Māori and remove many specialist Māori roles. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Kemish, Adjunct Professor, School of Historical and Philosophical Inquiry, The University of Queensland There can be no more powerful symbol of the relationship between Australia and Papua New Guinea than the prime ministers of these neighbouring countries walking together on the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sharon Robinson, Distinguished Professor and Deputy Director of ARC Securing Antarctica’s Environmental Future (SAEF), University of Wollongong, University of Wollongong Andrew Netherwood Over the last 25 years, the ozone hole which forming over Antarctica each spring has started to shrink. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Viktoria Kahui, Senior Lecturer in Environmental Economics, University of Otago Getty Images/Amy Toensing Biodiversity is declining at rates unprecedented in human history. This suggests the ways we currently use to manage our natural environment are failing. One emerging concept focuses on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Timothy Colin Bednall, Associate Professor in Management, Swinburne University of Technology marvent/Shutterstock Finding the best person to fill a position can be tough, from drafting a job ad to producing a shortlist of top interview candidates. Employers typically consider information from ...
Wondering where to host your next BYO? Whether its a small gathering or a massive party, we’ve got some recommendations. I was first introduced to the concept of BYOs at Dunedin’s India Gardens, a legendary but sadly defunct establishment, which purveyed enormous quantities of mango chicken to Aotearoa’s drunkest future ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Julien Cooper, Honorary Lecturer, Department of History and Archaeology, Macquarie University Julien Cooper The hyper-arid desert of Eastern Sudan, the Atbai Desert, seems like an unlikely place to find evidence of ancient cattle herders. But in this dry environment, my new ...
The sector says it’s hopeful her replacement Paul Goldsmith will be able to throw it a lifeline, after six months with a minister deemed missing in action, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign ...
The government can't just rely on axing public sector jobs and has to do more to cut spending, says the chief economist at a free market think tank. ...
Rock The Vote NZ, known for its advocacy for minor party unity and its role within the Freedoms NZ Coalition during the 2023 General Election, celebrates this merger as a strategic enhancement of its operational strength and outreach. ...
Nearly everyone has experienced the frustration of something you use breaking and being difficult or expensive to fix. Proposed legislation could change that. It’s been raining on and off all Sunday afternoon but people are lining up outside a building in a corner of Gribblehirst Park in Sandringham, Auckland. In ...
What does a forever relationship look like when you don’t believe in marriage? And how do you celebrate it? This essay is part of our Sunday Essay series, made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.I’m going to do it, right now. I’m going to say ...
The Prime Minister has committed to resuming direct flights to Thailand. But it’s not a promise he will be able to deliver on anytime soon. The post Prime Minister jumps the gun in Thailand appeared first on Newsroom. ...
It’s not that long ago Eliza McCartney was seriously wondering if the Paris Olympics would be her pole vaulting swansong. After years of being hounded by injury after injury, the Rio Olympics bronze medallist was still confident she would compete at her second Olympics in Paris in July, unless something ...
Quite some time ago I promised someone here that I would write a post about renaming New Zealand to Aoetearoa. It’s taken me a while but I have gotten around to doing it – prompted by the soon to be released book and already in place website A CONSTITUTION FOR AOTEAROA NEW ZEALAND.
I don’t like the creeping stealth approach where ‘Aotearoa New Zealand’ is being imposed. We should just have an open discussion and decide what we want our country to be called, one or the other.
The first European name was actually Staten Landt (Abel Tasman) but was changed to Nova Zeelandia by Dutch cartographers a few years later, and then anglicised to New Zealand by James Cook over a century after that.
Aotearoa apparently originally just applied to the North Island but was gradually applied to the whole country and is now the accepted alternative.
There’s many possible meanings, depending in part on whether you split it into Aotea’roa or Ao’tea’roa. ‘Land of the long white cloud’ is common but ‘long bright world’ and ‘land of abiding day’ are alternatives. I have also extracted ‘land of the transparent kiwi’ but that probably isn’t a goer.
But regardless, I think that Aotearoa is more appropriate than New Zealand and I’d be happy to see it change. It would obviously be a bit contentious though.
Post: And what about ‘Aotearoa’?
🙄
“Imposed”
Oh noes! Fascistism!
Can Petty George provide legitimacy to something that belongs to tangata whenua, or is he just an author of sad racist clickbait?
Discuss.
Just to save everyone a click, the linked article is a slightly longer / more detailed version of the comment that Pete George has made here.
There isn’t any other argument or reason for why we should change the name stated in the post. If you read the comment above, that’s pretty much all the post is:
1. A note that some people are apparently suggesting “Aotearoa New Zealand” and Pete doesn’t like that, for no explained reason
2. A very short timeline history of the original European origin, as Pete has already produced here. Then a very detailed breakdown of the meaning of the Maori word, again already summarised here
3. A final limp conclusion where Pete states that he would like it if the name were changed to Aotearoa; he notes it is contentious, but doesn’t offer any argument or greater insight than “I think this would be good”.
It wasn’t intended as a full blown argument. I aim to initiate and facilitate discussion in issues of interest.
I see that you didn’t even attempt to discuss the issue or express your own opinion (except indirectly, taking a swipe at the messenger) let alone arrive at ‘a limp conclusion’ of your own. What I posted is far from the conclusion, I don’t think that’s up to me.
Because Pete, I gave you the benefit of the doubt, thinking maybe you’d finally done something interesting / relevant, so I followed your link.
I was quite disappointed to discover that you comment here already had 85% of the content that was to be found at the link. So I posted a summary so others wouldn’t waste their time.
Also you don’t seem to understand the definition of conclusion. I was commenting on the conclusion to your post being dishwasher weak, not saying you need to have the final conclusive statement on any topic ever (which makes no sense anyway). You concluded your post with a very weak “I would like this” statement, but there’s no depth as to why you would like it, or why you think it’s time to do it now.
Frankly this reads like an 8-year old’s school assignment on whales, where they conclude by saying “I like whales”.
You’ve said virtually nothing apart from a bit of a long winded limp diss. I thought you were better than that. Maybe you missed the point – it was about the name of our country.
That makes two of us, then.
It didn’t take long for PG to pull out the self pity – poor me, nobody treats me fairly and I have the most honourable intentions, me me me me me.
He’s like a cardigan-wearing Rik the People’s Poet.
Yeah but I think that makes OAB Vivian 😈
Heh 😊
PG was about to bore everybody to death, but Rhinocrates & OAB saved the day 🙂
and thats being generous! the guy really is an idiot. i suppose he came here as nobody over at his place is that interested either
Classic. Thanks for the footwork Lanth.
No, Lantanide. Only one person has nothing to say- you. Ok , ive
followed your summation of Pete’s post. That’s fine and dandy.
But I’m waiting for your input towards this discussion.
Now is your chance to shine. Lets hear your opinions.
Or are you vacuous like the comments below you, until we get
to Stuart Munro, who actually contributes.
🙄
I never intended to say anything about the topic, and don’t have much to say.
But neither does Pete, and I pointed that out in my comment at 1.2
Pete couldn’t resist replying to me, acting like a victim as usual.
I don’t think I’m any sort of victim. If there is any it’s the ‘commentariat’ who are a victim of an own-goal, revealing how you still operate. I’m not sure why you’re proud of it.
Well I remember you from the past, and I fully back the ‘commentariat’. Better if you stick to your own website, where you may get people who share your interests. I don’t.
Oh noes! We still operate in such a way that we name boring vacuous racist clickbait for what it is.
Thats quality! 🙂
It’s not straightforward Pete – Aotearoa is not the only name for what we now call NZ, which in Cook’s time was largely Te Ika O Maui & Tovypounamu. Bloke I knew did a paper on it – the skinny of which is that Aotearoa reflects a particular mystical view that is not necessarily universal. Sorry I don’t have a link to it.
Tovypounamu? Are you sure about that. I didn’t think the Maori alphabet had a (v) or a (y)
We’re talking when Cook came through – there was no Maori alphabet as such at that time. Standardisation happened later, and some linguistic drift in a century or two would not be surprising.
The odd thing is that Aotearoa didn’t come up then. Now, in some places names are sacred & you don’t share them casually with outsiders – Kangaroo being a great example – it’s not the local word for the animal, it means something like “yep, look at them”.
The names Cook got were not that tabu. But I didn’t write the paper – can’t do it justice – just blindly taking Aotearoa might not make sense. We need background and context.
Still not convinced. Cook wrote the name Te Wai Pounamu to refer to the South Island on Maps in 1776 but can’t find any reference to it being called Tovypounamu anywhere
I found one: a pdf document listed by Google: “Journal: Forgotten Books”.
Google’s precis reads: “TovyPounamu, the most southern of the two islands of New Zealand….”
I didn’t bother downloading it.
Were you thinking of Te Waipounamu? Which is the South Island as Te Ika O Maui is the North Island
Quite some time ago I promised someone here that I would write a post about renaming New Zealand to Aoetearoa.
Aoetearoa?
What ? you type too fast?
“creeping stealth”
🙄
Thanks for the discussion everyone. I expect we’ll see more of this irrelevant crap between now and when the wanker attracts his next ban.
I love that there was only one response that took PG seriously. Well done the commentariat. Bodes well.
Seems like there is worldwide anger/protest at electoral candidate choices at present….
Voters elect reluctant metalhead to council
http://www.newshub.co.nz/world/voters-elect-reluctant-metalhead-to-council-2016091610
Maybe they voted for his cat. Similarly, Mayor Stubbs of Talkeetna Alaska: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/cat-mayor-alaska-town-15-years-article-1.1116263 … Is still there in 2016: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stubbs_%28cat%29
Also in 2016, a canine mayor is re-elected in this US town: http://www.wday.com/news/4098641-mutt-turns-mayor-small-town-minnesota
And then there is our very own Whangamomona: http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/74409256/First-female-president-appointed-for-Whangamomona-republic
Claire Trevett piece today is really quite good (I know… not many here will agree!).
“Labour leader Andrew Little was quick to cry the poll was “bogus” and countered with Labour’s own poll which had a much more generous outlook for Labour.
Whoever’s poll is right, the One News poll does highlight two stark problems for Labour.
The very same poll showed an increase in concern about housing and imigration – the issues Labour claimed it was gaining votes from. The poll showed Labour was not capitalising from that.
The second problem was NZ First and the Greens were both safely above 10 per cent. That would mean Labour’s coalition partners combined were almost the same size as the Labour Party itself.
To swap analogies (why not?) from used cars to the familiar tail wagging the dog one, under MMP voters tend to like their dogs to have as tiny a tail as possible to ensure stable government.
National has three support partners but they are so small they are more like fleas in the general area of a tail.
As things stand, the Labour dog will need both NZ First and the Greens as tails. If Labour polls less than the mid 30s, that is akin to two German Shepherd tails thrashing in opposite directions on the rear end of a pug.
Physics dictates that would not end well for the pug. And as Scotty would say, ‘ye cannae change the law of physics.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11711287
@Chuck 29+14+12=55 looks pretty stable to me, compared with the Right’s 4-headed monster (Seymour*/Dunne*/MP/Nats). I think hell will have to freeze over for Winnie to go with Key. Another indicator was on Backbenches this week where Tracey Martin was laying into boy-wonder Todd Barclay and the Nats in general. I think NZF will pick up votes on the immigration issue during the election campaign.
*I refuse to name these as parties-they are one-man bands. The MP may also become one soon.
Standardistas need to talk in Labour/Green bloc terms always. This counters the mid-20’s rubbish the right is trying to hijack the agenda with.
I think Act should be referred to as a party. They actually got enough party vote to justify Seymour’s electorate seat.
Dunne didn’t – he’s the cause of the overhang in the house.
From memory you are wrong Lanth-I think ACT got about 0.5%
But Act didn’t cause an overhang in Parliament. Dunne did.
http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2014/partystatus.html
With 0.82% of votes required to get a seat both Dunne and Seymour didn’t get enough to warrant even one.
Nope. New Zealand uses the straight St Lague method to allocate seats to qualifying parties. Which means that usually only a little more than half a seat’s worth of votes is needed to be allocated one, and 1 1/2 seat’s worth to be allocated two. So ACT with 0.69% get a “legitimately allocated” seat, while United Future with 0.22% get the one overhang seat.
http://www.elections.org.nz/voting-system/mmp-voting-system/sainte-lague-allocation-formula
Another indicator was on Backbenches this week where Tracey Martin was laying into boy-wonder Todd Barclay and the Nats in general. I think NZF will pick up votes on the immigration issue during the election campaign.
Of course they’re laying into National, it’s where they see they can grow their vote, do you really think they’re going to get votes off the greens or labour?
Try and pick up a few more % points by convincing the more conservative element of National to to vote NZ first, that way NZ First has more leverage when they go into coalition with National.
Crikey, Wee Toddy Baccy was allowed out in public? I hope he had a hankie up his sleeve.
Spot on, +1000 Bearded Git.
Nah, Claire Trevett has repeatedly proven that MMP and coalitions are too complex a concept for her.
I personally would be happy with labour / greens / nzf.
yep, been saying it for years. Labour does not need a clear majority if they form a workable coalition with the other Opposition Parties. In fact should we get such a Government, and should the people elected care to represent and work for the people that got them elected it would be a ‘representative’ government.
but hey, the other one is winningest ro something.
yes it would be nice to see an actual mmp government not a form of fptp one that we seem to keep getting
+1 Sabine.
Yep, me too B Waghorn.
“Whoever’s poll is right, the One News poll does highlight two stark problems for Labour”
That makes no sense at all. If the One News poll is not right, then it “highlights” no such thing. But let’s all forget that and wander happily into a conclusion based on an ignorant assumption.
Editractor it was the same poll that showed an increase in concern about housing and immigration, that also recorded support for the various political parties.
So on one hand, Andrew Little calls part of the poll “bogus” which he does not like, but accepts the other part re – housing and immigration.
The “stark problems for labour” that the author has referenced are that the people polled mostly said housing and immigration are a problem, but Labour went backwards (down 3%) and received 26% support from the same sample group.
It could be a “rouge poll” just as Andrew Little admits the Labour commissioned poll understates National party support (in other words he called his own poll rouge). 🙂
Rogue, you chump, rogue.
Don’t spoil my fun Gabby!! I was waiting for In Vino to make an appearance and tell me off.
Already done that. Glad someone else sees you as a chump. But I guess you are likely to go for a minority opinion in your semi-literate state.
Happy now?
Hey In Vino! thanks for stopping by again mate.
If I wasn’t a glass is half-full type of guy, I would say you come across as a self-righteous linguistic snob who want’s to make it clear how much smarter you are than the rest of us…
Buy hey I am a positive sort of guy, so its all good and I look forward to your next critique.
Forget the matey stuff – you’re a troll.
“Editractor it was the same poll that showed an increase in concern about housing and immigration, that also recorded support for the various political parties.
So on one hand, Andrew Little calls part of the poll “bogus” which he does not like, but accepts the other part re – housing and immigration.”
It might have been the same poll but they are two separate issues. It is quite possible for the poll to be inaccurate on one issue but not on the other so Little’s position on it is entirely reasonable.
“The “stark problems for labour” that the author has referenced…”
One or both of which are irrelevant if the poll is wrong on them.
My point is that the author starts by acknowledging uncertainty about the accuracy of the poll but then proceeds to make conclusions as if it were accurate.
To ice the big dollop it is, she then rolls out an analogy, though I liked the bit where she compared Act and the MP to parasites.
Good point Editractor.
The truth behind Colin Craig’s sexts: http://www.thecivilian.co.nz/opinion-i-think-its-fairly-obvious-i-meant-to-send-those-sexy-sexts-to-myself/
Praise the Lord there’s no photos. The sauna scene was already too much for me.
It’s good there is just one of him
No double upon our legs at night
But we’d be better off if there were none of him
No chem trails or righteous right
Horrible watching Norman spilling the lines on the nation. What a disappointment. Indigenous rights and middle class values around conservation often conflict and in this case imo this will cause lots of division and disgust.
Meanwhile bugger all being done around climate change – only bullshit greenwash. Nice one not.
Do you think Maori voters will turn on the Greens, thus by association (MOU) Labour?
There will be a backlash and all major parties won’t care. Tino rangatiratanga activists and those who worked on the original settlement care. This is where Māori will bind a bit and that will/should make the major parties fearful. The Treaty PARTNER will not be ignored, not any more.
“There will be a backlash”
What will happen if the two (National – Maori Party) come to an acceptable agreement.
Will it all blow-over?
No
Are you implying it’s now too late for the two to reach an acceptable agreement? And if the Maori Party come to some settlement Maori will then turn on the Maori Party?
National has a two decade record of being able to reach iwi settlements, so I imagine National have a fair idea of the parameters of what they will need to do.
Well they (National) have yet to handle this well, despite their record.
If that were true they would have considered the radical notion of “talking to iwi first before making sweeping decisions affecting their settlements”.
+1 Stephanie Rodgers
To me it looks like National standing up to corporate fishing interests, who also happen to be partly owned by Maori.
Key was right to chuck his hand in on this one.
No more Wag The Dog.
He will get this Reserve done by the end of this term.
More hit and run eh, or perhaps shit and run – pretty weak that you won’t back up your opinions just spray and walk away – not strength, and not courage.
Maori have a history of opposing marine sanctuaries 🙁
At 800 km away from the mainland I’m not sure there is much argument to be made for the Kermadecs being a traditional fishing spot
Wayne, yet the arrogant Nats persistently fail to have talks with the very people they KNOW they need to talk to prior to running their mouths off.
Even if you’re correct they’ve always got an ulterior motive.
I’m saying that if the Māori Party reach some agreement with the gnats that doesn’t appease activists and the original negotiators then it will still be opposed. From what I have read and heard an agreement that appeases the people that need appeasing can be reached.
I agree, Marty. There have been solutions offered by Māori that would enable a sanctuary without impinging on treaty rights or settlements.
This is a typical Nick Smith/John Key fuck-up and I am surprised it was been allowed to get to this stage. I am also horrified that Russel Norman seems to have no understanding of the problems of this legislation for Māori.
And how do you see it being settled – money?
Upholding of mana
Which means what?
perhaps ask your tribal elders to explain that one bm
Marty, you do know that Labour has been regularly pointing out that Māori have not been consulted adequately on the Kermadec Sanctuary for over a year now?
http://www.maoritelevision.com/news/latest-news/labour-raises-concern-over-iwi-consultation-on-kermadec-ocean-sanctuary
Thank you Karen.
Fascinating that National has, given this, clearly deliberately sidelined the Maori Party from a consultation process.
We need to ask why National has done this, and why 12 months out from an election, the Maori Party has now been given a cause to “stand up” against National.
This is probably all just media posturing to make the “pilot fish” Maori Party look relevant
in the overall context, that’s what it seems. A big, long, deliberate set up.
Thanks Karen for that. I hope it can all be sorted – we do need to find a solution for this importan5 issue imo and it can be done if the meaning of partnership is upheld by the crown.
+1 Karen, some on here were trying to blame Labour for John key’s cockup. Nothing new there.
Norman seems to want that sanctuary really badly. Enough to ignore Māori perspectives. That sure makes it awkward for Turei or Davidson. I haven’t been following it that closely but the Greens seem very quiet on this whole issue, maybe they’ll just let it slide by.
Were the Kermadecs explicitly mentioned in a fisheries Treaty settlement? Someone may have answered already but I missed it sorry.
Money over conservation.
It’s a disappointing attitude from the so called “guardians of the land”.
I think that Iwi needed to be involved in consultation at a much earlier stage.
And I think that the outcome needed to be exactly the same – establishment of a massive marine reserve.
I would like to know if any fishing corporates had plans on the drawing board for exploiting the fisheries there.
How does one come to an agreement?, fishing rights and a marine reserve, they can’t really co-exist.
Funny bm that is not what negotiators think. Are you writing from knowledge or ignorance?
So you think Maori should be allowed to fish in a marine reserve?
But only Maori, no one else.
Ignorance then, as i suspected
Or do you think there should be no marine reserve because it impacts on Maori fishing rights?
Or is this more about Iwi expecting the tax payer to fork out another lump sum for loss of earnings?
BM you need to read the Treaty. Gives Maori all fishing rights in perpetuity. You don’t get to mess with that or the successor legislation without talking to Maori. In a democracy, a government should have talked to Pakeha too. Talking isn’t the Gnats strong point.
“The Ogre does what ogres can,
Deeds quite impossible for Man,
But one prize is beyond his reach:
The Ogre cannot master speech.
About a subjugated plain,
Among it’s desperate and slain,
The Ogre stalks with hands on hips,
While drivel gushes from his lips.”
Government is sovereign they can do whatever they want.
ha ha – haven’t got down to your marae yet eh – what a ignorant twit you are bm
Don’t really feel like taking a drive to Thames, there cuz.
Anyway the marine reserve is going ahead, the Maori getting all bent out of shape will just have to put on their big boy pants and deal with it.
subservient you – bow your head boy
Te Tiriti Ō Waitangi does not apply to the Kermadecs because they weren’t part of NZ at the time and Māori didn’t fish them as part of their territorial waters either any way. So traditional fishing rights, as guaranteed under Te Tiriti, simply do not apply.
For people to claim that they do is for them to try and rewrite history.
And yet that is what Māori do seem to be trying to do.
National have deliberately engineered a gift issue 12 months out from the election which will then allow the Maori Party to go out and campaign and claim “independence” by “standing up to” National over something (fishing around the Kermadecs) with no practical value or meaning or thought time for 99% of Kiwis.
Clever election maneuvering is what this is.
cv you are a knob – not everything is coloured orange fool – fuck north is right about you being a embarrassment every time you blurt your bullshit.
dtb – you have very little credibility and what you say is next to meaningless because you don’t get even the simple fundamental truths – sorry to burst your ego balloon. For instance you wrote – “Te Tiriti Ō Waitangi does not apply to the Kermadecs” yet IT WAS part of the settlement that is why there is an issue now – this is the most basic simplistic fact about the whole deal. Sure I get you don’t WANT it to be like that – but it is.
Marty Mars, Labour was highlighting National’s lack of consultation with iwi in 2015 over the Kermadecs.
It seems obvious that this process was stitched up way back then as a way for the Maori Party to demonstrate independence from National just 12 months ahead of the general election.
it seems obvious to the man backing trump – excuse me if I think you don’t have a fucken clue
Labour knew in 2015 that National was not consulting with iwi over the Kermadecs, and said so on broadcast TV.
Therefore the Maori Party were more than aware of the same, if not more details.
However both National and the Maori Party let things proceed as they were.
All the way along until now, just 12 months before the next general election and National pushes ahead with the legislation.
The Maori Party suddenly raises very public and very serious concerns, and immediately, National abruptly realise the shortcomings in their consultation process and are forced to pull their proposed bill out of the legislative process.
A big win for the Maori Party who can truthfully claim not just that they have the “backbone” to stand up to John Key, but that they have “real sway” and demonstrable influence over the National Government.
Along the way, the Maori Party get to amply illustrate that Labour and the Greens don’t really care that much about Treaty rights and Treaty settlements.
Brilliant stuff to campaign on, going into an election year.
An co-engineered between the Maori Party and National from the start, for the electoral benefit of both.
(National who gains from the red neck white vote by having not including iwi in this important Treaty relevant process).
This is where you always trip up
“Labour knew in 2015 that National was not consulting with iwi over the Kermadecs, and said so on broadcast TV.
Therefore the Maori Party were more than aware of the same, if not more details.”
your therefore is not true – you don’t know and cannot know (unless someone says it) that it is true – it is SPECULATION from which you draw conclusion after conclusion to fit your internal story and convince yourself that you are right and have some insight – all based on a therefore which IS NOT true.
so nice fairy tale
please get this – you are projecting, you don’t know – but hey chuck the link up (about the therefore not the bit before) and I will go wow you are right.
conspiracy types always make the story fit their preconceived ideas
Bm why not go down to your marae and tell us what they think.
BM you are so excellent at reaching deep into your own dark recesses and projecting onto everyone else the suppurating moral detritus you find there.
Money over conservation…….that’s our BM. Said with a straight face too.
Not sure, but you would think if you’re given some rights over a national fishery under a treaty then you get a say in how its managed.
He certainly didn’t want to call it a treaty issue – still stuck on the ‘commercial’ which I found incredible.
“Greens seem very quiet on this whole issue”
Well if they are aligned with Normans view on the matter, perhaps that’s why they are so quiet (awkward for Turei or Davidson).
Norman seems to want that sanctuary really badly. Enough to ignore Māori perspectives.
I really don’t get this. I’m as White as it gets, but even I can see a glaringly obvious Treaty grievance arising out of it. Given the events of the last 176 years, it ought to be clear enough why you shouldn’t negotiate a national fisheries agreement with Maori and then unilaterally remove fishing rights from thousands of square kilometers without even bothering to mention it to your Treaty partner. The fact that marine sanctuaries are a Good Thing doesn’t change that in the slightest.
Why do you think some can’t get their heads around it?
I think there are multiple factors:
We all want more and bigger marine sanctuaries, so opponents of any particular marine sanctuary must be Bad People;
Maori have commercial fishing interests, which could be seen as a conflict of interest;
But the big one is that it’s easy for Pakeha to support Treaty rights as long as it doesn’t affect something that’s important to us. I don’t exclude myself from this: if the government wants to give the Urewera back to Tuhoi, sure, absolutely, no skin off my nose – but if the government wanted to give my suburb back to Rangitane and included my property in the deal, I expect I’d find it hard to be supportive of the idea and might start looking for spurious reasons why it would be completely wrong for Maori claims involving my property to be recognised. People who feel strongly about the Kermadec marine sanctuary are possibly experiencing that same feeling.
Here is the link.
http://www.newshub.co.nz/tvshows/thenation/panel-jenna-raeburn-mihingarangi-forbes-and-russel-norman-2016091711
Ta Paul, good to watch it again – rus the mus is very sus – true colours coming out now – yuck.
Am really wondering which party to vote for now.
Suggestions for the party most likely to dismantle neo-liberalism in NZ?
The Greens. Not because the can or will do that immediately, but because the more votes they get the closet they can operate to their core values (seriously, read their core documents).
Neoliberalism will be disbanded by the people. The parties will follow. Best chance is from the Greens.
Btw, I haven’t watched the interview yet but Norman isn’t a formal part of the Green Party, and we need to be careful to not conflate his position with theirs.
Totally agree with you weka.
The Green’s have been arguing the need for more marine sanctuaries for years now. Marine sanctuaries are the only way humans can hope to holt the rapidly depletion of a vital natural resource. Never the less the Green’s along with Labour in their minority view on the Bill as it was reported to Parliament stated:
Thanks, that’s very interesting and as per usual the Greens present a deeper and more thoughtful perspective than they are given credit for.
It does raise the issue of the select committee process and how much it is largel ignored in public debate.
For me the thing missing here is that we have a desperate need for sanctuaries because how general way if operating is so destructive, and we are stuck in the whole neoliberal/conservation polarity. Ultimately it doesn’t move us past the primary way of operating and quite possibly entrenches it.
As per usual with this govt there wasn’t much time for public debate on this issue nor time for people to make public submissions:
Note – no iwi appear to have submitted.
ref: the previous link.
as I have noted above the conflict that can occur between the rights of indigenous peoples and middle class conservation values is well known – at least within indigenous communities 🙁
labour – “We believe it is wrong that the bill undermines the rights arising from the Treaty of Waitangi (Fisheries Claims) Settlement Act 1992, which were meant to be “full and final”, and in particular those fishing rights relating to Fisheries Management Area 10.”
greens – “Concerns raised by Te Ohu Kaimoana and some iwi authorities that the bill breaches Treaty rights and interferes with quota rights conferred by the Treaty of Waitangi (Fisheries Claims) Settlement Act are complex. Such concerns are most appropriately resolved by the courts or by negotiation between iwi and the Crown, rather than select committee.”
got to say labour’s lines are better than the greens on this one – both supported the bill, both have put negotiated settlement rights of indigenous peoples behind the right to have a protected conservation area. This is pretty well what always happens and that is why many indigenous communities are suspicious of conservationists – who pretty well want people out so they can enjoy the peace and quiet of nature.
This btw is EXACTLY the same with climate change. You change but not us. Indigenous communities are fighting for the protection of Papatūānuku and have been well before the middle class conservationists decided to stop destroying and start saving – but that is forgotten in their Avatar like redemption of the brownish by the whiteish and their rewriting the narratives with them as the hero – every.single.time.
Marty – what you appear to say here is that there can never be another Marine sanctuary within the NZ EEZ because it would contravene the full and final settlement of the Treaty of Waitangi (Fisheries Claims) Settlement Act! This would be an extreme position to take.
The prime purpose of Marine Sanctuaries is not to reduce the number of fish that can be caught – their purpose is to allow fish places to breed and ultimately for fish numbers to rejuvenate to sustainable levels. At present we (and here I include us all) are stripping our oceans clean, and this present behaviour is simple unsustainable. The provision of Marine sanctuaries does not remove the right of Maori to fish nor to limit the quota set under the Settlement. These issues are complex and I totally agree that “Such concerns are most appropriately resolved by the courts or by negotiation between iwi and the Crown, rather than select committee.”
There is a point in the progression of ethical behaviour when the good of the whole trumps individual rights or any other right.
Yes Marine sanctuaries are great – hell, make the whole ocean a sanctuary imo.
Yes the current stripping of our oceans is unsustainable – one of the reasons I no longer eat fish actually and haven’t for years. And yes we need spots where the fish populations can replenish.
I believe that a position where all parties were happy could have, and maybe still could, be reached. That certainly seems to be the position of Te Ohu Kaimoana. I’d be happy with that too.
But I’d ask the question why? Why make sanctuaries? To ensure the replenishment of species and ecosystems? Why do that? To ensure all living entities including humans, have the ability and right to survive and flourish? Okay but if you have to destroy or ignore or trample on the rights of indigenous peoples to be able to create areas where people and ecosystems can flourish then I’d argue it is hypocrisy especially as no non-indigenous peoples are being treated the same. This is colonisation and belittling and othering. This is why this country isn’t Aotearoa but instead New Zealand and this is why Māori are not given their LEGAL and MORALLY due rights as PARTNERS.
The real irony is that indigenous peoples are the BEST at protecting the ecosystems and creatures within them, including humans. They are much much better than the exploitative and destructive western societies who, frankly, have created this mess we have to sort out. But what sacrifices are they making? What are they doing about climate change? Answer – NOTHING. They want everyone else to make the sacrifices and save them – well they can get fucked.
This world is this world. The good of the whole would require the western exploitative countries to fall off the map – then we can save shit.
I know it is a rant and I know I’m generalising and making all sorts of statements where I’m included on both/all sides. I am doing this to show the hypocrisy of the whole debate.
The kermedecs are already nz largest fisheries reserve, with a benthic ban on trawling in fma10.
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/1990/0305/4.0/DLM142810.html
Te Ohu Kaimoana would be highly unlikely to get FAO certification for any catch from this area already under reserve or tentative status.
I’m pretty sure they don’t even want to fish there – the whole thing is about binding agreements being made with indigenous partners and then breaking those agreements BECAUSE they were made with indigenous partners and that category of partner is well down the prioritisation list and can be discarded (or so they thought in their 1870’s mindset) easily without fuss, just like all the other times the crown has done it.
”The real irony is that indigenous peoples are the BEST at protecting the ecosystems and creatures within them, ”
Oh come on now marty i’ve known more than one maori chap who was a shocking poacher.
Tell that to the Moa….
a perfectly understandable rant marty –
has anyone thought that this is all about JK?
– a pretence that he cares about the environment
– a self-serving act so he has something ‘noble’ in his ‘legacy’
– useful that it makes him look good to environmentally concerned film stars and world leaders who he wants to rub shoulders with…
– a blatant set-up and dog-whistle to his fanboys…. another excuse for them to denigrate Maori
Okay for your benefits I will say a little more
Collective not individual. The system in place now has disenfranchised and disempowered so many indigenous peoples – remember colonisation??? The ability to live sustainably was inherent in survival and Māori and other indigenous peoples survived.
It is utter arrogance to think someone from some no name town in Britannia knows more about sustainability and living in the Amazon than the indigenous people living there.
As for the Moa – yep they are gone and believe it or not there are many factors that contributed to their extinction, including being hunted for food and loss of habitat due to fire (some deliberately and some naturally occurring). The middens do tell a story but not the only story. Plus I said the BEST and it is true that others that aren’t indigenous are horror shows for animals and ecosystems. That doesn’t mean Māori or other indigenous peoples were saintly but they were so much better than western peoples.
Yes locus I agree with all of your points and that is why I get so disappointed with some comments on this and why I bought that up in regards to the panel with norman.
No, they’re not. They’re just as bad as Pakeha. The just didn’t have the technology and population to do the same total damage but they still did massive amounts of damage.
Māori stripped ~50% of the forest area of NZ before Pakeha got here.
“By the time European settlement began, around 1840, some 6.7 million hectares of forest had been destroyed and was replaced by short grassland, shrubland and fern land. Between 1840 and 2000, another 8 million hectares were cleared, mostly lowland or easily accessible conifer–broadleaf forest.”
from your own link dicko
6.7 million hectares is less than 8 million hectares isn’t it????
so when you say ,”They’re just as bad as Pakeha” you are just being a bigot.
Wow, really, I would never have known that.
Of course, if they were truly as environmentally friendly as you say it would have been ZERO.
If Māori had continued in that fashion then the land would have ended up being just as denuded as we have now. It may have taken longer but the damage would still have been done.
your bigotry has blinded you to what I actually wrote
+ 1000 Marty Mars.
Sorry weka can’t see any chance of that happening anytime soon. The Greens are a 10% – 13% party. The Greens only chance to be part of a Government is by hanging onto the coattails of Labour.
The Greens don’t have much ability to negotiate with Labour (no leverage) and thus no radical policy shifts will be approved by their master, Labour. It is amplified even more if a Lab/Gr party need to rely on NZF to govern.
Your best chance to dismantle (so called) neo-liberalism in NZ would be to gut the Labour party of any remaining centre left people. Then in conjunction with the Greens “go for it” and see how many voters you can convince…
Getting rid of the hardcore neoliberalism from Labour would be a huge help but you missed my point. Neoliberalism will die in NZ at the behest of the people with political parties following the people.
“Neoliberalism will die in NZ at the behest of the people with political parties following the people.”
Which correct me if I am wrong, would require a ground swell of people before political parties (other than a fringe party) would react.
By ground swell, it would need to be massive, in the hundreds of thousands at the very least.
Can’t see that happening any time soon.
Trump
Brexit
SNP taking Scotland
all signs the dam is about to burst very soon….
AfD
Golden Dawn
and more
“By ground swell, it would need to be massive, in the hundreds of thousands at the very least.”
yes and no. Change always happens on the edge first. We have a Green Party in large part because of people who thought differently back in the day. They were small numbers who ended up with big influence. A lot of change happens like that.
“Can’t see that happening any time soon.”
That’s what people used to say about slavery or apartheid in South Africa. Women getting the vote. Lots of examples.
Yep – watching that I was pleased that he isn’t the Green co-leader anymore.
Poor Mihi – having to deal Russel and a rightwing PR person on the panel. Neither seemed to understand treaty rights. Mihi did well, though.
Yep she seemed surprised and shocked by the ignorance.
The thing that stood out for me was that the 2 Pakeha appeared to be arguing that the Crown should ignore the treaty if it thinks Māori interests run counter to its own. Not that that’s not without precedent but I agree, very disappointing from Norman. He did say he thought the lack of consultation was wrong but it was one sentence amongst many others which seemed to ignore the Treaty 🙁
I liked what Forbes said about the differences between Māori and Pakeha views on conservation, would love to have seen a whole debate on that alone. It would have taken us somewhere more useful perhaps.
I was impressed by both Mihi and Russell. Both view points have merit, it’s such a pity that the stupid Nats have lost the chance for Maori to make a great contribution to Conservation. You can argue Treaty rights as much as you like but conservation is paramount in our rapidly deteriorating environment so good on Russell for his strong stand.
My greatest fear about the whole issue is whatever we come up with we will be too bloody under sourced to patrol/manage the area. We can’t even do our local sanctuaries adequately.
“You can argue Treaty rights as much as you like but conservation is paramount in our rapidly deteriorating environment so good on Russell for his strong stand.”
Yep as long as someone else is affected or has their rights discarded she’s all good.
Any examples where non indigenous peoples are making sacrifices like that?
Just joking – I know we are trying to stop using plastic bags and ummm yeah that’s right we sort of recycle into the rubbish tip and ummm…
It has been suggested elsewhere that this is a set-up. With agreement in advance, National leave out Maori, providing Tuku and his Maori Party with the opportunity to posture greatly and stand up for Maori with much righteousness, and in so doing justify Maori Party policy of cuddling up to the Nats. And the Maori elite continue to grow rich at the expense of most of the rest of their race, which puts us all in the same horrible basket. People of all races can now enjoy the same penury equally, while all the right people get voted in again.
Or am I even more paranoid now than I was back when I was not quite sure whether I was paranoid enough?
Yep, giving the Maori Party an issue going into election year to prove to the electorate that the Maori Party is indeed “independent” and can indeed “stand up to” National.
Considering that just last week the greasy whale was driving wedges between tainui and labour i would say you have every right to be sceptical about the maori parties activities.
Jeepers – may be a bit convoluted and true!!!
I am listening to Annette Sykes on this one and other Māori activists not the Māori Party and to be clear I don’t agree with everything Annette says on many things – but this one seems clear to me.
Perhaps it is all a plan to get the Māori Party in with gusto – I hope not as I’m a left wing Mana Movement supporter. You’ve made me feel paranoid now 🙂
edit @cv – nah you are definitely too paranoid
@ waggy – skeptical is a very good word there.
It seems to me that your heart is in the right place Marty. Go for it.
Has anyone here been following this controversial series?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/84158436/new-zealand-is-no-paradise-it-is-brutal
It’s very hard to have patience for people who leave a country then shit all over it from a distance. She could have stayed and tried to fix what she doesn’t like. And blaming a country because some muppets made her watch a slaughter show a lack of depth of thought.
This is far bigger than watching a slaughter. Which brings into question your depth of thought.
Check out part two, it’s a real cracker.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/84167679/new-zealand-is-no-paradise-is-it-the-most-sexist-place-on-earth
Sometimes home truths are hard to handle.
Thanks Chairman, great articles. Really made me think. The author is exactly right about JK embodying and embracing the darker side of Kiwi culture.
Those are just troll articles.
Wouldn’t be surprised if this woman didn’t even exist and the whole series was written by some reporter to stir up the readers.
Do you care to address the content or did you just want to imply suspicion against the author as a way to distract?
If true, I think it’s the height of arrogance and lack of class to extrapolate out her experiences onto a country of 4 million people.
Obviously a raving lefty, good riddance.
If true?
Can you list what you believe isn’t?
Moreover, if true don’t you think it’s time we acknowledge it and see if we can improve things going forward?
She may be gone, but if true the problems remain.
“Obviously a raving lefty”
What makes you say that? Was it an attempted smear as a way to again discredit the author, hence the content?
Another RWNJ in denial, what else is new
From the article ….
“When the Roast Busters made headlines, they did so because they talked about their alleged exploits online, which meant that people outside our culture became aware of it.
Although the first complaints were made in 2011 by girls as young as 13, the police investigation sputtered along until 2013 when the story got picked up by international media. Headlines such as Jezebel’s New Zealand Teen Rape Club is the Worst Thing You’ll Read About Today embarrassed us.
We really, really hate being embarrassed in front of foreigners.”
It sums up BM really and where he stands on NZ rape culture …..”
He really, really hates being embarrassed in front of foreigners.
Have more respect! BM is a troll expert!
I’m pretty sure you don’t exist and only serve as a counter to low blood pressure and constipation.
Nice one – BM summed up perfectly.
Note to self – do not get on the wrong side of Gabby.
NZ has a lot of problems. That article doesn’t offer much useful in way of understanding it or finding solutions. I’m all for s good moan fest to get things off ones chest but I question the value of doing that ins national newspaper.
I also question her ability to reflect or do basic research. The anecdote about pain relief is common in many countries. It’s not a NZ thing It’s a medical services dynamic. Which makes me wonder about her ability to form an argument that is meaningful beyond her own antipathy.
Bare in mind, weka, the series hasn’t completed yet.
You may see it as a moan. I see it as something that needs to be said and acknowledged.
Putting it in the paper clearly helps to give the issues wider attention.
We can’t address an issue if we fail to recognise it or deny it exists.
“The anecdote about pain relief is common in many countries. It’s not a NZ thing It’s a medical services dynamic”
Can you expand on that thanks?
“Which makes me wonder about her ability to form an argument that is meaningful beyond her own antipathy.”
Implying you see no truth in it at all?
No, implying that her antipathy is all she’s got.
People getting treated badly at A and E when they seek pain meds happens lots of places. Anyone suspected of being a drug user, or lying about pain to access drugs can get treated badly. Her using that story is a good example of why her article is overblown and comes across as rhetoric.
Of course the problems need to be discussed (that’s a given in this forum) but as I said I don’t think she is adding much useful to the conversation.
Implying that her antipathy is all she’s got is clearly incorrect. She supplied a number of notable references throughout the series thus far.
Her use of that story is obviously because it stood out for her. The refusal of pain relief shouldn’t be determined and withheld on the mere grounds a patient asked for it.
Moreover, that example was merely one small snippet compared to what the series contains. But you’re correct, the example is anecdotal. Nonetheless, there is a prevailing harden up culture in NZ.
I agree. Her anecdote about animal slaughter actually shows how humane the animal was slaughtered, and her memory of the event, I’d say, is slightly faulty; the animal would have been skinned before it was guttered.
“(The animal) followed him trustingly, balking just a little at the sight of a man striding towards it holding a rifle.”
An animal doesn’t know what a rifle is or does ffs.
“At the age of eight, I was dragged into an initiation familiar to all readers of New Zealand’s manly literature: witnessing a slaughter.”
‘initiation’, ‘dragged’ Really? Garbage!
” Which makes me wonder about her ability to form an argument that is meaningful beyond her own antipathy.”
Perfectly put Weka.
Have you read the other parts?
With all the bigger issues being highlighted, I find it interesting people want to focus on the slaughter.
Because it shows she’s using her personal experience to paint a whole country as bad.
NO, I was a sensitive kid & was appalled to follow my father into a field at the age of about 4-5 & watch him catch a sheep & run a knife through it neck then let it keep running finally stumbling in a heap of blood & limbs & noise. Also being thrown into a pool when I could not swim & laughed at as I got out crying & told to ‘harden up’. If you are a sensitive wee soul then NZ is indeed a brutal country. Actually look at how many comments tell her to ‘harden up’, pretty much proving her point. It’s only her view & experience, I am sure she has had as much joy & laughter as the rest of us. NZrs hate criticism, & the disassembling of sacred cows like rugby, hunting & man alone bullshit. Well tough shit. One more thing, look at NZs appalling suicide rates of not just children but young men, there’s something rotten in the state of ‘godzone’ that we refuse to acknowledge.
+ 1 Yep hard to forget the first sheep you see killed, especially when you are young and sensitive.
That’s an indictment on your father both because he ill treated the sheep and insulted you.
I think your father was an outrageous brute and your reaction to that and being thrown into a pool when you couldn’t swim, doesn’t make you a sensitive wee soul, just an emotionally abused child.
It makes me feel sick to think of a child being insulted and abused like that.
Your account of the sheep slaughter is not my experience of how farm kill was carried out. We never watched our father killing the household meat because there was no reason to; it wasn’t a spectacle.
Your experience and mine doesn’t make NZ culture.
But this “, look at NZs appalling suicide rates of not just children but young men.” is shameful.
It’s true “there’s something rotten in the state of ‘godzone’ that we refuse to acknowledge”
I did not say my experience made NZ culture did I?
My dad was brought up on a Waikato farm in the 50s, he was a young stupid ignorant immature man in his 20s , now he is mellow & more knowing &I think he’s great! Also, my experience is not that uncommon, both the brutal animal slaughter & being forced to learn how to swim in those horrible cold concrete pools all schools used to have.
Also read the comments on the articles, plenty people think kids watching animals die is great character building material & makes kids respect meat, apparently!
You were unlucky to have an arsehole for a father.
@b waghorn
Not only is she speaking from her own experiences (which some would also widely share) she illustrates how they manifest through attitudes and actions in society.
One recent example being the Roast Busters ordeal. More recently the Chiefs.
She discusses our binge drinking culture, procreation, homophobia and rugby culture.
She highlights (amongst other things) that in the United Nations Report on the Status of Women published in 2011, New Zealand was ranked worst of all OECD countries in rates of sexual violence.
The series is titled ‘New Zealand is no paradise, it is brutal’ – highlighting some of the more sinister parts of our culture, thus it isn’t going to be a complimentary piece.
I also question her ability to reflect or do basic research. The anecdote about pain relief is common in many countries. It’s not a NZ thing It’s a medical services dynamic. Which makes me wonder about her ability to form an argument that is meaningful beyond her own antipathy.
Yes. I read the first one, spent most of it thinking “FFS, do you imagine that’s peculiar to NZ?” or “Have you actually visited any other countries?”, and decided not to bother with any further installments.
I have read both articles and, for me, on both occasions warning bells have rung. There is something contrived, ott, or ‘worst case scenario’ about it all. I suspect it is fiction. Worse still I fear I agree with BM ( minus the raving leftie bit) on this.
The one on the place of women and sexual attitudes in New Zealand was a bit over the top, but it was really well told.
Seems accurate.
Misogynist thug incites violence against a woman.
Take their guns away. She doesn’t want guns. Let’s see what happens to her… It would be very dangerous.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/trump-if-clinton-hates-guns-take-bodyguards-away-and-lets-see-what-happens-to-her/
edit: She wants to destroy your Second Amendment… Guns, guns, guns, right? I think what we should do, is, she goes around with armed bodyguards like you have never seen before. I think that her bodyguards should drop all weapons, they should disarm, right? Right? I think they should disarm. Immediately. Whaddaya think, yes? Yes. Yeah. Take their guns away! She doesn’t want guns. Take their, let’s see what happens to her. Take their guns away. OK?
Trump is quite right. The Secret Service would be completely unable to protect Clinton without their standard side arms and the submachine guns/assault rifles that they have available close to every VIP protectee.
Prescient.
https://twitter.com/mariskreizman/status/727868011915427840
I’m loving the Don around the birth cert – hes the hero and its all clintons fault. Sounds like someone here on ts uses that approach.
Everything’s Clinton’s fault.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/04/15/media-analysis-shows-hillary-clinton-has-received-most-negative-stories-least-positive-stories-all/209945
Easy win Trump, November 2016.
Deutsche Bank certainly hopes so.
/
Deutsche Bank, one of the world’s very largest banks, sold a lot of bad securities that ended up contributing to the 2008 Great Recession. Now, the Wall Street Journal reports that the US government is trying to hold the German bank accountable, demanding it pay $14 billion in settlements for its alleged malfeasance.
[…]
Deutsche, for its part, is flatly rejecting the $14 billion price tag. “Deutsche Bank has no intent to settle these potential civil claims anywhere near the number cited,” it said in a statement. A source told the Journal that it expected to pay somewhere closer to $1.9 billion.
Another possibility, which Coffee warned me not to discount, is that Deutsche is simply waiting for the US election to end — on the hope that a Donald Trump presidency, unlikely as it may seem, might drop the case entirely.
http://www.vox.com/2016/9/16/12943436/deutsche-bank-14-billion
yes, the US Govt has been busy attacking the foreign competitors of the big US banks. BNP Paribas and HSBC have also been hit.
CV really is nought but a shit-stirring polemicist (aka troll) who’s unwittingly painted him/her self into the discomforting corner of ‘having’ to blow wetter and wetter kisses to the twisted narcissist Trump.
Like a runaway fucking locomotive there is no stopping him/her at this point. Fucking tiresome actually and quite deleterious of TS……from someone whom in my observations over a long period has postured unabashed as not simply attractively Left but consummately, seminally, unmatched so.
Might well be a case of catatonic, runaway ego expression of course. Which Praise Be is CV’s personal problem and has nothing to do with Left/Right/Whatever. “Humph Humph Trumph Trumph ! Fuck the Left in all its manifestations !
I am always right, simply because I say so, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.
Credibility and plain old hoha is an issue here. Oh Dear…….
Fuck off with your drunkenly bad metaphors and hack theatrical reviews, you effete intellectual snob.
Delicious and yummy yummy CV ! Sounds like this “effete intellectual snob” has hit the ego-burdened Trumph Troll’s panic button…….what say you omnipresent darling ?
Let’s be basic Trumph Troll. You make a fucking fool of yourself. The consummate, unequalled Leftie, hard out pashing Trumph. Wow !
LA Times/USC national tracking poll of almost 3000 voters: Trump +6 ahead of Clinton.
What are you on. North? I have tried to be mean to Chuck, Maninamuddle, and BM, but with good reason..
Your rant is over the top. CV often makes damn good sense to me.
And by the way, I think ‘deleterious to’ or ‘for’ TS would be more correct than ‘deleterious of’.
I mention that in sympathy with CV’s comment re ‘hack theatrical reviews’.
In Vino, with thanks. Fyi North is a status quo Labourite.
Yeah, big point there In Vino. Thanks. Maybe you should check your punctuation. Pettifogging being your order of the day seemingly.
Pettifoggery is the correct noun, just to prove your point. The problem is that you yourself go so far out of anyone’s way to sound erudite.
That pettifogging point was only ‘by the way’ – the main point was questioning your apparent hatred of CV. Your vituperous verbosity was excessively hyperbolic.
See? Anybody can do it.
I think there is a huge difference between the situation where a trained, sober, professional soldier/policeman is carrying a gun for protection of another; and, an untrained, possibly drunk or high civilian with little discipline or reason to carry weapons except for reasons of self-esteem or image.
The other difference is that American gun enthusiasts confuse the purpose of their Constitution whereby an armed militia may carry weapons for defence of the state, and civilians who want to carry guns, as I understand the original purpose of the amendment.
Trump is wrong because he confuses the situation of a ‘militiaman’ or Secret Service agent with an ordinary citizen. There is a huge difference in training, purpose, discipline, sobriety and rules of use.
Surely, CV?
So, only the agents of the government should be armed while the general populace should be unarmed?
I am sure that you are aware that position inverts all common interpretations of the Second Amendment.
Arguing for basic gun control is obviously different to demanding total disarmament including law enforcement.
Once again people’s desperate need to hate Hillary Clinton is making them approve of absurdly illogical but seriously threatening statements from Trump.
Trump’s remark on disarming the Secret Service is threatening in what way? He is in fact arguing AGAINST disarming them.
No, CV, he is arguing for the citizenry to be armed as well, in an illogical and dangerous way. As is his wont. I didn’t argue for disarmament of citizens either. I argued against untrained, drug-imbalanced, insane, kids having access to guns which are essentially military-purposed and capable of massacre- as opposed to a militia being armed with ball and powder, muzzle-loading weapons, in 1791!
A nutter with a muzzle loader would only get one shot away before being overpowered. A nutter with a weapon firing in excess of a 1000 rounds a minute, with quick loading magazines- another matter. It’s also a bit difficult to hide a 149 cm Brown Bess musket about the person.
I don’t understand your second sentence in your reply to me above. It looks like another blasted computer-knows-better spelling typhoon………….
the US citizenry is already armed.
I know the US citizenry is already armed. So does Trump know that the US citizenry is armed. So does Clinton. So do you. Why do you state the obvious?
The question is should they be in the way they are? And by extension, should we? And can the US pull back on its lust affair with guns?
And can your dissatisfaction with Clinton not lead you into areas where logic is trumped by emotion?
He’s blowing an issue entirely out of proportion to avoid having a real discussion while unsubtly hinting that someone should violently assault his opponent.
If people have any understanding of the US gun debate (and can put aside any desperate need they have to disagree with Clinton on everything) they appreciate how serious this is.
Exactly right. And yet so many otherwise apparently astute people just don’t get it. It’s as if they’ve been mass-hypnotized.
It’s rather like a David Cronenberg film (not The Dead Zone, though there are certain echoes) but The Brood, where Trump is the avatar of his supporters’ rage, or vice versa.
its very funny,
Obaman gonna git our guns!!!!!
8 years later
Hillary is gonn git our guns!!!!!
meanwhile
http://www.opencarry.org/maps/map-open-carry-of-a-properly-holstered-loaded-handgun/
oh yes please, pretty pretty please 🙂
http://qz.com/782523/elizabeth-warren-wants-the-fbi-to-treat-big-bank-ceos-the-way-they-treat-hillary-clinton/
quote:
“Elizabeth Warren hasn’t left the financial crisis behind—she wants the FBI to hand over the records of its investigations into criminal behavior at Wall Street banks before the crash.
And she says she has grounds to do so after federal law enforcement officials gave extraordinary public access to their investigation of Hillary Clinton’s e-mail server.”Quote End.
I wish Hillary had named Liz Warren as her VP.
Highlighting the difference between labour activist and “reality” in the UK
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/12/jeremy-corbyns-labour-suffers-worst-opinion-poll-ratings-the-par/
Not much different here really.
#ToriesForCorbyn
Nothing to do with wanton acts of political sabotage by the PLP then? Just blame the guy who harnessed a mass movement and increased Labour membership to record levels.. really James you are being a bit simpleminded
Not at all – what I was pointing out is that there are people like you, who are fine in a small little echo chamber with people like yourself who think you are all smart – and then there is the rest of the population who vote for the other guys leaving you surprised yet again when you are in opposition.
For your next trick, the Brexit result and the Trump movement are great examples of right wing success…?
There is a lot of anger out there against *all* establishment parties, patting yourself on the back seems a bit premature
pretty sure the fact youve ingored the continuing public internal war in UK labour has been pointed out to you multiple times.
the fact your pinning it all on a single factor, yet again, somewhat proves ropata’s claim – either that or your doing it on purpose
Rachel Maddow on how the Trump campaign’s use of racist symbols signals their tacit agreement with the very worst of America.
http://player.theplatform.com/p/7wvmTC/MSNBCEmbeddedOffSite?guid=n_maddow_apepe_160916
Bullshit. Thats not the “worst of America.”
Maddow proves that shes just another liberal lefty bigot.
The symbols around Trump are nowhere near as scary as the logos of Lockheed Martin and Goldman Sachs that Killary has aligned herself with.
“But what sets Trump supporters apart from the people who supported other candidates is their endorsement of vile stereotypes about people of color. Anti-black and -Muslim stereotypes are the strongest predictor of Trump support I was able to find — far more powerful than economic factors.”
http://www.salon.com/2016/07/23/anatomy_of_a_trump_voter_how_racism_propelled_trump_to_the_republican_nomination/
trump = the worst of America
And they all get a vote, even the ones with hand guns. Glorious democracy.
Why can’t we just all agree that neither candidate is at all suitable to be the figurehead of an Empire.
They are in no way equivalent. One is a serious contender. The other is a grotesque ‘joker’.
Yes, a female version of the criminal character.
Generation Zero have done a guide for local elections again – makes for some interesting comparisons.
http://aucklandelections.nz/
Auckland elections? 😉
No, it has all regions though some are still to be completed. My link is Auckland because that was the page I was looking at but easy to get to the others.
Ok thanks. I was on my phone before so didn’t click through.
Here’s the national site,
http://www.localelections.nz/
edit, looks like just the city councils in some areas.
Ouch, Penny got scored a D, and a 6 out of 15 for Competence (Goff for 14/15).
The comments section after this article highlight the divisions in NZ society which have appeared in the last decade.
It’s the age of the amateur landlord and the long term tenant. Watch for things to get worse in this area.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/84337585/foxton-landlord-seeks-appeal-in-soiled-carpet-case
If you tell your tenants no pets inside then they let pets piss all over the carpet then i think they should pay.
The fire case is completely different from that , and the court was right to not make the tenants pay.
It’s the comments I was highlighting, not the case itself. Any excuse at all to deride tenants as a group is gleefully taken up by the the amateur landlord class.
oh god don’t read stuff comments ,it will only make you feel like you are living in an asylum ,
I’d be interested to know what the Tribunal decision said. On the face of it it doesn’t make sense.
Re the comments, there is a mix there of the two cases (which are quite different), so it’s a big hard to tell what the general response is. Criticising the lastest Tribunal decision seems valid to me and not-anti-renter.
Oh, and tenant’s insurance, wtf.
This article was very thought provoking for me.
“I wanted to believe that sharing my experience with them would make them understand. And even more important, that understanding would breed action; but that’s where the disconnect arose. My sons understand, as best as teenage boys can. But they aren’t willing to sacrifice their own comfort for my sake, or for anyone else. When it comes to speaking out against rape culture and questioning their own ideas and behaviour, they become angry and defensive. Not all men, they remind me, and my guts wrench as my own sons mimic the vitriol of a thousand online trolls.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/life/84369519/im-a-rape-survivor-and-my-teen-boys-are-blind-to-rape-culture
As a parent I wonder how I will act/react when my boys don’t believe what I believe and in fact believe the opposite.
You wouldn’t let your kids call a girl a slut or a whore. You probably wouldn’t lecture them about sexual politics over dinner until they wish laryngitis on you either.
You think it’s okay to reduce a woman talking about her own experience, and trying to get her sons to understand how to have respectful relationships, to “lecturing them about sexual politics”?
That’s kind of the problem, you realise.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11711888
In the body count it’s still 1000-1 against the sub-human “sand nigger” Palestinians. Talk about racism !
Nelson Mandela knew those neo-nazi zionists for what they are. Seventy years ago even Ben Gurion understood the Palestinians’ plight. “We’re taking their land – of course they hate us”.
“Justice The Seed Peace The Flower”.
Anyone interested in this issue needs to read up on the historical “Yinon Plan” for a Greater Israel.