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3 more years of this

Written By: - Date published: 2:08 pm, December 12th, 2011 - 37 comments
Categories: Parliament - Tags: ,

On Breakfast this morning, John Key said that losing a confidence vote “by definition, constitutionally means a snap election”. No. If a government loses the House’s support, then another one can be formed that does have Parliament’s support. Only if that cannot happen is there an election. Key has been PM for 3 years. He should know the basics.

This, from Key’s own department’s website:

If the government loses the support of the House, or if the Prime Minister loses his or her support as the leader of that government, then the ministry or the Prime Minister is likely to change: another party or combination of parties may now have the support of the House, or a new leader may be identified as Prime Minister. Or the Governor-General may face a more difficult situation because the position within the House or the governing party is unclear.

The essential principle in such situations continues to be that the Queen, as a constitutional monarch, or the Governor-General, as her representative, acts in accordance with the advice of the Prime Minister or Ministers who have the necessary support of the House of Representatives. Where that support is unclear, the Governor-General relies on the elected representatives in the House, and especially the party leaders, to clarify whether a party or grouping of parties has the support of the House to govern, or whether fresh elections will be required.

I, for one, welcome 3 more years of Key bumbling, mumbling, and stumbling his way through the most important job in the country.

37 comments on “3 more years of this”

  1. dv 1

    Key on Morning report again!!!

    • deuto 1.1

      And on Checkpoint tonight unless I am mistaken. Interesting how many times Key has been on RNZ National since the election compared to before.

      My nose (and long experience with said ‘gentleman – Griffin not Key) suggests that Richard Griffin – the Silver Fox – may be involved here.

      • ghostwhowalksnz 1.1.1

        Labours leader contest is getting all the media oxygen- so the invisible one needs to grab what he can- the usual fluff

        on breakfast radio probably have had their fill of politics for the year- thankyou very much

  2. Lanthanide 2

    I wish the journalists would pull him up and flat out say “actually Mr Key you are wrong, it does not require a snap election if another government can be formed from the MPs already sitting in the house”.

    Probably a lot of the journalists know, or suspect that he’s wrong, but saying something like that would meet with displeasure from their superior and ultimately be a career-limiting move.

    Instead what we end up with is interviewers who just let their subjects say whatever the crap they want without opposition or a critical view applied.

    • Bored 2.1

      Its far worse than you describe: journalists, government MPs and the opposition MPs are all engaged in this collective denial of reality.

      Think Copernicus: he points out that the Earth rotates around the Sun…..the Ptolemaic wisdom was the opposite, and was established for 1500 years, sanctioned by the Church. Accept it or burn as a heretic. But he was right, and his empirical observation won the day. The problem was the time lag, the resistance by vested interest.

      Our reality today is the same, even the populace don’t want to admit that what they are finding out about the conventional wisdom does not comply to the “reality” they have been brought up to accept. Don’t expect the clown jesters of today’s orthodoxy, (the journalists), or the high priests (the economists), or the emperor (parliament) to admit they have no clothes.

      • aerobubble 2.1.1

        Technically the Earth-Sun spiral around each other on a path oribiting the galaxic center, and the planet is not a sphere but an oblate spheriod. Now of course for all intense and purposes Key would not care what happened after he were thrown out, and the best first guess would be a new election. So if you charge me with nitpicking, then look in the mirror, like it frigging matters whether after Key there was a new government formed by some new consensus thus avoiding a election. It would sure need to go to the electorate pretty quickly to get a mandate!

        Attack Key on something substantial like why does he think taxpayers said no to the triple tax cut Labour was offering, tax off food is a tax cut, tax threshold on income is a income tax cut, a capital gains tax was for most people irrelevant and would lower home prices as landlords sold off property – our lack of a CGT is a tax on sole home owners (those who only own their own home).

        The media routinely declared key the winner, and labour voters got despondent and did not vote.

    • newsense 2.2

      the jounros should pull him up. FFS

    • ghostwhowalksnz 2.3

      Pull him up for not knowing the details ???

      hello… they arent allowed to catch Key out …. thats for labour people only.

      Espiner caught English out when he tried to bluff his way around the $40 mill loan given to Media Works-

      “I have a copy of the document” – he said .. but this was never mentioned again… no headlines about English misleading an interviewer … they wouldnt dare write it

  3. tc 3

    Key knows the basics:

    How much do I get paid
    How much can I get the employer (us the taxpayer) to pay for
    How much are my investments benefitting from our policies
    How much can I make for my mates
    When am I allowed to leave and keep my accrued benefits….not the ones in the public space but the ‘benefits from backers’
    How many more helicopter rides can I have
    Who’s left for my happy snap book
    Spend as little time there as possible.

  4. bbfloyd 4

    sounds like just another of keys deliberate oversimplifications designed to inform any future waverers, or dissenters, that anything less than blind obedience will have him taking his ball and going home…..

    a reminder to the short of memory of just who is the governments only asset….

  5. Ianupnorth 5

    A few unwell NActUFMP’s (who’ll be first to croak, my monies on Sharples) and a few by-elections and it’ll be game over

  6. DS 6

    It depends. In 1912 the Liberal Government lost a vote of no-confidence, and was replaced by Bill Massey’s Reform Party without a new election (it has happened in New Zealand). On the other hand, in that case it was clear that an “alternative” government was able to be constructed. You have to be very careful about whether an alternative is available. In Canada in 1926 there was an awkward situation where a Government that was on the ropes (but had not formally lost a vote of no-confidence), requested an election, but was refused by the Governor-General because the GG felt that the Opposition Leader (who actually had the most MPs) should be allowed to form a government. It turned out that the Opposition Leader didn’t have the numbers either, so a new election had to be called anyway.

  7. Cactus Kate 7

    Shearer didn’t even know who the Labour Climate Change Spokesman was. So I guess it may be three more years of that too.

    • Bored 7.1

      So Prickly One, what little bit of rational self interest in this whole thing do you declare?

      • Cactus Kate 7.1.1

        Sometimes we just do stuff because it is fun.
        This is one such time.
        I can see Cunliffe is about to lose.
        And he shouldn’t as he’s the better of the two candidates.
        Far better mind for stats and business, two areas I blog mostly on.
        Just making the observation.

        • Bored 7.1.1.1

          Yeah maybe you are right: I occasionally wander over to the dark siide and look at the RWNJ home sites for a little light amusement at the expense of the mind bogglingly dreadful creatures over there. Must say this side is far more fun, so it seems to me rational you come here.

          • Cactus Kate 7.1.1.1.1

            At the moment this is the biggest game in town. For one more day.
            No matter who is chosen tomorrow they can look forward to the RWNJ initiation Wednesday.

            • Colonial Viper 7.1.1.1.1.1

              No matter who is chosen tomorrow they can look forward to the RWNJ initiation Wednesday.

              Yep. And I hope MPs choose the candidate who has already weathered this shit-storm over several terms, as opposed to the candidate who as yet to be tested by it.

          • felix 7.1.1.1.2

            Don’t feed the nasty old lady, Bored, or she’ll never go away.

            She only comes here because when she writes about this stuff at her own blog no-one cares.

            • lprent 7.1.1.1.2.1

              Nope. That isn’t correct. Bryce Edwards cares about CK.

              I can’t ever remember him mentioning The Standard in any of those blogs and news media posts he does for the herald. But he did today. It from a Cactus Kate post about what The Standard was writing. 

              It was rather weird. I was thinking about it this morning. As near as I can figure out he refers to almost every other political site apart from this one, including some absolute trash posts. Does the NZ Herald muzzle him from referring to this site? Has he had his essential dignity ruffled by a author here? (in which case you have to think about the pysch of a polsci lecturer who can’t stand criticism).

              I must pop this observation into the post ideas 

    • Reality Bytes 7.2

      Interesting. Sound’s like he might be a bigger threat to the NActUMs than Cunliffe… With the potential to win over more of the middle/right-lite Climate-deniers/don’t-carers.

      Or perhaps he wants you to think that 🙂 Crafty crafty crafty. I predict if Shearer gets the leadership he’ll be our next PM.

      .
      .
      .
      (and if it’s Cunliffe, then Cunliffe will be our next PM)

    • Ari 7.3

      That’s certainly not good, but it’s not as bad as not knowing how you stay Prime Minister.

  8. fender 8

    What he doesn’t know he makes up. Sometimes he seeks advice via consultants then does the opposite. The guy is a chump, it’s true.

  9. vto 9

    I was listening to Key on something on the radio today and it was clear that his grasp of the subject was very limited as he bumbled for a bit and then ended it by saying something like “and that is part of that review process”. In fact I think it was about electoral matters.

    He really does not know the basics.

  10. Tigger 10

    Key never considered he’d have to face this reality.

    Get used to it JK. I’m picking problems with your rule as early as next February…the 10th if you make me pick a specific date.

    • Ari 10.1

      Just wait until what’s left of the centrists in Ohariu threaten to revolt against Dunne for supporting assett sales. Will be interesting to see if they can hang on for a full term.

    • Jim Nald 10.2

      May Key be magnificently blessed with plentiful Richard Worths and Pansy Wongs in the next gloriously wonderful three years 🙂

  11. Fisiani 11

    3 more years of strained teeth gnashing John Key put downs…….
    Keep it up chaps. You will sleep better knowing that you are winning hearts and minds

    Genuine comment of good will. Tis the season

    • RedLogix 11.1

      John Key said that losing a confidence vote “by definition, constitutionally means a snap election”.

      Right or wrong Fisiani? Genuine question of good will and all that….

  12. David H Formally Deadly_NZ 12

    Or maybe the plan is that shearer trips over his words, like an attack dog Key is on him like a rash, the public turns on him for making fun of that nice Mr Shearer. Because for the life of me, I cannot see any other reason that you would put him into the shooting gallery, with a bloody great target on his back and ‘shoot’ me in chalk under it. Sorry it has to be Cunliffe /Mahuta for my money.

  13. Bazar 13

    While it may not be the definition, its most certainly the case for this term.

    National have about 49% of the votes, so to avoid a snap election, nearly every other party needs to unite against national.
    A 7 party coalition, including NZ first, mana, and maori, and possibly even act.

    So by all practical means, he’s correct.

    But please, continue to deride him for being incorrect on a literal definition, when its obvious to anyone with half a brain that he’s still correct on the practical level.

    Also continue to blast the media for not spitting in Keys face, because of an meaningless inconsistency.

    • framu 13.1

      “constitutionally means a snap election”

      key word being “constitutionally” – ie: required by law

      so by all practical means he is still utterly inncorect

      completely different to if he had said something like “under the present makeup of parliament it would LIKELY mean a snap election”

      so either he doesnt know what hes talking about or his use of english is so elastic that he says one thing but really means another.

      either of these is bad if your a) trying to communicate import legal matters and b) the prime minister

      it baffles me why people are so eager to make excuses (and invent meanings) for what our politicians say.

      If there is doubt, innacuracies or falsehoods, surely the sensible position is “thats not right – please explain what you actually mean”? (and doubly so if the politician in question is talking to a political reporter)

      • Bazar 13.1.1

        “constitutionally means a snap election”

        He’s still correct, as we would have a snap election, as forced by the constitution.
        You take a government that can’t form a majority, and you add the ramifications of the constitution, and you get a snap election as a result.

        “so either he doesnt know what hes talking about or his use of english is so elastic that he says one thing but really means another.”

        You know, one thing i’ve learnt in life is that people don’t care to hear lawyer speak. It has its place, but its not for casual discussions.

        Lawyer speak is tedious to listen to, often not easily understood, and most of all, people don’t want to hear it.
        This is a breakfast show, some simple descriptions are all that’s needed and called for. A 5 minute lecture on the ramifications of our constitution, just so he can be 100.00% correct isn’t called for at all.

        “it baffles me why people are so eager to make excuses (and invent meanings) for what our politicians say.”

        That works in reverse as well, as this site as created an excuse and invented a meaning to what key said (That he’s so incompetent that he doesn’t know better)

        • Colonial Viper 13.1.1.1

          He’s still correct, as we would have a snap election, as forced by the constitution.
          You take a government that can’t form a majority, and you add the ramifications of the constitution, and you get a snap election as a result.

          No, that’s not how it works.

          All other parties must be given a chance to form a government first. A snap election is in no way inevitable. If they can, there is no constitutional need for one.

          • Bazar 13.1.1.1.1

            “No, that’s not how it works.”

            Yes, that’s very much how it works.
            The only way a snap election will be avoided is if EVERY PARTY besides act and national work together.

            You’d have to be MENTALLY DAMAGED to believe that could ever happen with NZ First, Mana, and Maori in the mix.

            So if National isn’t the ruling power, and no other ruling party can form, then the constitution requires that there be a re-election.

            Thus we have a snap election as required by the constitution if national isn’t ruling.
            ergo: if national isn’t ruling, it “constitutionally means a snap election”

            Is it so hard to grasp this basic concept?

            • RedLogix 13.1.1.1.1.1

              So if National isn’t the ruling power, and no other ruling party can form, then the constitution requires that there be a re-election.

              You have it correct there… but the rest is a rant.

              I agree it is unlikely that the present configuration of Labour/Greens/NZ1/Mana and MP could form a stable government… but equally it is not impossible… at least theoretically.

              But that is completely beside the original point; which is that if the Government loses a confidence vote, it does not automatically mean a snap election. The other parties in the House have the opportunity to form a government … if they can. Only then if no government can be formed would another election be called.

              More importantly you would have to give the Opposition parties the chance to form a government. You cannot deny the opportunity to them.

              The point is; Key was wrong in principle on this and as PM really should have known better.

  14. randal 14

    kweewee is a drip.

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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Funding for Predator Free Whangārei
    Community efforts to create a Predator Free Whangārei will receive a $6 million boost, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones and Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage announced today. The new funding, through Government company Predator Free 2050 Ltd, will create around 12 jobs while enabling the complete removal of possums over ...
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    4 days ago
  • New Zealand to review relationship settings with Hong Kong
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced that the New Zealand Government is reviewing the settings of its relationship with Hong Kong. “China’s decision to pass a new national security law for Hong Kong has fundamentally changed the environment for international engagement there,” Mr Peters said. “New Zealand remains deeply ...
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    4 days ago
  • Funding for Whangārei’s infrastructure projects revealed
    Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has announced details of a multimillion-dollar investment in Whangārei for infrastructure projects that will help it recover from the economic fallout from the COVID-19 pandemic. More than 200 jobs are expected to be created through the $26 million investment from the Government’s rejuvenation package ...
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    4 days ago
  • Managed isolation and quarantine update
    Following a second incident in which a person escaped from a managed isolation facility, security is being enhanced, including more police presence onsite, Minister Megan Woods said. “The actions of some individuals who choose to break the very clear rules to stay within the facilities means that more resourcing is ...
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    4 days ago
  • Funding for Kaipara district community waste programmes
    Waste reduction and recycling programmes in Kaipara are set to get a boost with Associate Environment Minister Eugenie Sage today announcing a $361,447 grant from the Ministry for the Environment’s Waste Minimisation Fund (WMF) Sustainable Kaipara. “The new funding will allow Sustainable Kaipara to partner with local schools, kura, community ...
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    4 days ago
  • Government will support the people and economy of Southland
    The Government will support the Southland economy in the wake of multinational mining company Rio Tinto’s decision to follow through with its long signalled closure of the Tiwai Point aluminium smelter. “This day has unfortunately been on the cards for some time now, but nevertheless the final decision is a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New transformational tools for the Predator Free 2050 effort
    New tools being developed to help boost Aotearoa’s Predator Free 2050 effort were unveiled today by Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage and Under Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau. A new rat poison, a camera with predator recognition software to detect and report predators, a new predator lure and a ...
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    5 days ago
  • New Armoured vehicles for New Zealand Army
    The Coalition Government has approved the purchase of a fleet of Bushmaster vehicles to replace the New Zealand Army’s armoured Pinzgauers, Defence Minister Ron Mark has announced today. The new fleet of 43 Australian-designed and built Bushmaster NZ5.5 will provide better protection for personnel and improved carrying capacity. “The age ...
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    5 days ago
  • Community-led solutions to prevent family violence
    The Government’s three prevention frameworks to reduce family violence in Aotearoa were launched this week by Associate Minister for Social Development Poto Williams.   The frameworks were developed in partnership with communities around New Zealand, and build on the work the Government has already begun with its new family violence prevention ...
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    5 days ago
  • Govt confirms investment in better radiology and surgical services for Hawke’s Bay
    The Government is pleased to confirm funding for improvements to radiology and surgical services at Hawke's Bay DHB, Health Minister Chris Hipkins says.     "The Minister of Finance the Hon Grant Robertson and former Health Minister Dr David Clark approved funding for Hawke's Bay DHB’s redevelopment of their radiology facilities ...
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    5 days ago
  • Specialist alcohol and drug addiction services strengthened across New Zealand
    •    New funding for four beds at Napier’s Springhill Residential Addiction Centre •    A new managed withdrawal home and community service, and peer support before and after residential care at Tairāwhiti DHB  •    A co-ordinated network of withdrawal management services throughout the South Island •    Peer support in Rotorua and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Coastal Shipping Webinar
    Introduction, seafarers and POAL Good morning everyone, I am delighted to be online with you all today. Before I begin, I have to acknowledge that COVID-19 has disrupted the maritime sector on an unprecedented scale. The work of seafarers and the maritime industry is keeping many economies around the world ...
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    5 days ago
  • Support for resilient rail connection to the West Coast
    A $13 million investment from Government will create jobs and improve the resilience of the rail connection between Christchurch and the West Coast, Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones and Regional Economic Development Under-Secretary Fletcher Tabuteau say. The funding comes from the tagged contingency set aside in Budget 2020 for infrastructure projects ...
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    5 days ago
  • Major investment in safe drinking water
    The Government is investing $761 million to assist local government upgrade under-pressure water services across the country, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced today.  The announcement was made at the site of the water bore that was found to be the source of the fatal ...
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    6 days ago
  • Supporting stranded seasonal workers to keep working with more flexible options
    Recognised Seasonal Employers and migrant seasonal workers stranded in New Zealand will be able to continue working and supporting themselves with more flexible hours and roles, says Immigration Minister Iain Lees-Galloway. The time-limited visa changes are: Stranded RSE workers will be able to work part-time (a minimum of 15 hours ...
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    6 days ago
  • Relief for temporary migrants, employers and New Zealanders who need work
    The Government is making immediate short-term changes to visa settings to support temporary migrants already onshore in New Zealand and their employers, while also ensuring New Zealanders needing work are prioritised, Immigration Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. We are: Extending temporary work visas due to expire by the end of 2020 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Freshwater commissioners and fast-track consenting convenor appointed
    Professor Peter Skelton CNZM has been appointed as Chief Freshwater Commissioner and Alternate Environment Court Judge Craig James Thompson as Deputy Chief Freshwater Commissioner for the newly established Freshwater Planning Process (FPP). Environment Minister David Parker today also announced the appointment of Chief Environment Court Judge Laurie Newhook as the ...
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    6 days ago
  • Appointment of Judge of the High Court
    Auckland Queen’s Counsel Neil Campbell has been appointed a Judge of the High Court, Attorney‑General David Parker announced today. Justice Campbell graduated with a BCom and LLB (Hons) from the University of Auckland in 1992. He spent two years with Bell Gully Buddle Weir in Auckland before travelling to the United ...
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    6 days ago
  • Feedback sought – Commercial Film and Video Production Facilities
    The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to better enable the development and operation of commercial film and video facilities in Christchurch. The Proposal, developed by Regenerate Christchurch in response to a request from Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section ...
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    6 days ago
  • Govt launches bold primary sector plan to boost economic recovery
    The Government has launched a bold plan to boost primary sector export earnings by $44 billion over the next decade, while protecting the environment and growing jobs. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern today released Fit for a Better World – Accelerating our Economic Potential, a 10-year roadmap to unlock greater value ...
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    6 days ago
  • Wellbeing of whanau at heart of new hub
    A new approach to prevent family harm that encourages greater collaboration across government and community groups is being celebrated at the opening of a new facility in Auckland. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern today opened the Multi-Disciplinary Family Harm Prevention Hub Te Taanga Manawa in Lambie Road in Manukau. The facility ...
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    7 days ago
  • New Report on Auckland Port Relocation
    The Government has released a major new report on the options for relocating the Port of Auckland’s freight operations while deferring any decision on the issue. “That decision needs to be informed by policy analysis that is still to be completed. As a result it will be up to a ...
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    7 days ago
  • Dual place names for Te Pātaka-o-Rākaihautū / Banks Peninsula features
    The history of Rāpaki is being restored through the inclusion of te reo in thirteen official place names on Te Pātaka-o-Rākaihautū / Banks Peninsula and around Lyttelton Harbour/Whakaraupō, the Minister for Land Information, Eugenie Sage, announced today.   “I am pleased to approve the proposals from Te Hapū o Ngāti ...
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    7 days ago
  • Government and Air New Zealand agree to manage incoming bookings
    Bookings for seats on Air New Zealand flights into New Zealand will be managed in the short term to ensure the Government is able to safely place New Zealanders arriving home into a managed isolation or quarantine facility, says Housing Minister Megan Woods.  “Last week Air Commodore Darryn Webb and I ...
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    7 days ago
  • $80 million for sport recovery at all levels
    Grant Robertson has today announced the first major release of funding from the $265 million Sport Recovery Package announced at Budget 2020.  “Today we’re setting out how $80 million will be invested, with $54 million of that over the 2020/2021 financial year for organisations from community level through to elite ...
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    7 days ago
  • Keeping ACC levies steady until 2022
    The Government is maintaining current levy rates for the next 2 years, as part of a set of changes to help ease the financial pressures of COVID-19 providing certainty for businesses and New Zealanders, ACC Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. “New Zealanders and businesses are facing unprecedented financial pressures as a ...
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    1 week ago
  • Extended loan scheme keeps business afloat
    Small businesses are getting greater certainty about access to finance with an extension to the interest-free cashflow loan scheme to the end of the year. The Small Business Cashflow Loan Scheme has already been extended once, to 24 July. Revenue and Small Business Minister Stuart Nash says it will be ...
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    1 week ago
  • New investment creates over 2000 jobs to clean up waterways
    A package of 23 projects across the country will clean up waterways and deliver over 2000 jobs Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Environment Minister David Parker announced today. The $162 million dollar package will see 22 water clean-up projects put forward by local councils receiving $62 million and the Kaipara ...
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    1 week ago