A Tale of Two Protests

Written By: - Date published: 4:09 pm, September 8th, 2018 - 79 comments
Categories: activism, global warming, International, Politics, the praiseworthy and the pitiful - Tags: , ,

At about a quarter to one this afternoon, I swung around the corner at the Exchange and noticed quite a reasonable number of people ‘across the way’. By their obvious signage, they were protesting the use of 1080. I’d guess there was something like 30 people there.

A few minutes later, on the way through the Octagon, I stopped to chat with a few people who’d gathered as part of the global day of action called “Rise for Climate”, and I picked up some leaflets. When I first passed through, it was before their advertised “start” time and there was a very light smattering of something like a dozen people.

Fast forward one hour.

Coming back through the Octagon, I’d say there was maybe twenty people. All white and all exuding a definate air of middle classness There was an electric car and some electric bikes and, to be honest, I immediately thought of a stall at a sales expo.

The bus driver (I was on a bus at this point) didn’t “toot” in support, and I didn’t hear any passing cars tooting support either

Down by The Exchange, there was maybe something like 40 or 50 people and…well, the only demographic that seemed to be missing was the white middle class. The bus driver tooted support. And as the bus sat at the next set of lights, I could hear further toots of support from passing motorists off behind us.

So what might it tell us, when a gathering about the future viability of how we live attracts a smattering of people from a single demographic, and a gathering about the use of a poison seemingly attracts every demographic but, and (maybe) two or three times as many people?

I don’t think the people protesting 1080 would be antagonistic to messages on global warming. And there is an obvious enough cross-over, because the things those people at the 1080 protest are seeking to protect get clattered by global warming.

I don’t know what, if any, information was available from the 1080 gathering. (I was on a bus both times I passed the Exchange.) But I do know what their message was. As do you.

Anyway, I’ve just this minute read the leaflets I gathered from the Octagon. There’s some good information within the half a dozen or so leaflets I grabbed. But some of the information is also, quite frankly, incredibly unhelpful, while a lot of it is decidedly naive. Overall, there’s too much confusing or irrelevant smash, and no timeless and simple “banner message” that might offer unity and a basis for people to built on.

Just to be clear. I’m not suggesting that everyone ought to be saying the same damned things about global warming or climate change, or that everyone ought to cleave to the same set of priorities.

But there has to be something short and sharp, something unequivocal and easy to grasp that allows people “entry”.

Until then, I suspect actions around global warming will remain somewhat “soft” – places and events where people already familiar with one another can gather to say hello – and the prospects for growing a large and broad based constituency of people, willing to stand up and proclaim that they give a shit –  well, that will remain decidedly low.

79 comments on “A Tale of Two Protests ”

    • Bill 1.1

      The post isn’t about “rights” and “wrongs”, but about effectiveness.

      • Ed 1.1.1

        I know.
        I was trying to find more about each.
        Climate protest will only be more effective if it is a lot more radical.

  1. Ad 3

    This relates well to the post complaining about Leighton Smith.

    Climate Change as an issue in NZ is at risk of going the way of the GE, Kermadec Reserve, microplastics, plastic bag, and other environmental protest issues: they’ve peaked and no one is leading them.

    MSM media abhor a vacuum – which is annoying when there’s a specific Minister responsible for climate change. Maybe we just have to wait until his bill lands.

      • Chuck 3.1.1

        “The Greens need to be a lot more militant on the subject.”

        They can’t Ed… they are now in Government and have to be seen to be at least semi-responsible.

      • Dennis Frank 3.1.2

        I agree with this thinking. I’ve always been at the radical leading edge conceptually and often find the GP too mainstream. But to be successful in politics, one must compromise. To find common ground with others, one must put personal priorities to one side. To extend consensus, one must be able to see where the overlap lies in the comprehension of others.

        I don’t like the fact that a site with such good content is anonymous. People must have the courage of their convictions to be successful politically. Paranoia has no constructive effect. The site could be an SIS false-flag operation designed to suck in naive angry youngsters.

    • Bill 3.2

      To be honest, I don’t think it’s a matter of “leadership”, but a case of messaging.

      There’s a list of 11 groups listed in one of the leaflets I picked up, and I know for a fact that some of those groups – well intentioned though they are – are advocating or fighting for measures that would have us sail well through 2 degrees and beyond.

      If there was some “catch-all” phrase or slogan that every argued case could easily be measured against, then the chaff could be gotten rid of and progress could begin.

      edit – I’d argue that unless something dovetails with yearly reductions in fossil of about 10%, then it’s smash, or red herring. (Shaw’s proposals – as he has expressed them – are both 👿 )

      • Ad 3.2.1

        It’s quite possible to disagree with Shaw and still agree that there’s still only one entity capable of leading a nationwide debate on climate change: the government.

        They have the capacity to demand the media time on tv and radio, the resources to roll out any kind of comms and engagement you like, and the ability to harness all relevant NGOs to one cause.

        I went on the big march before he Paris agreement was signed. It felt great, but it was the peak of climate change media coverage here. That’s the leadership bit that isn’t being connected to the messaging bit.

  2. gsays 4

    Perhaps folk see climate change is an issue that is beyond our influence.

    1080, however, it is possible to stop this barbaric practice.

    • Bill 4.1

      How can something that’s entirely down to our influence, be beyond our influence?

      I can see why people would feel hopeless, but then, give us the measure that everything must satisfy and that we can gather beneath, and that changes.

      • Ed 4.1.1

        Because it’s always pitched at ‘what you can do individually?’
        Just an idea.

      • gsays 4.1.2

        @Bill 4.1
        Ok fair enough.

        Maybe control would have been word than influence.

        What you have written above seems to point at leadership, and while we are wedded to neo-liberal, budget restraint, don’t scare the horses, steady as we go, let’s get re-elected…. we are stuffed.

    • Incognito 4.2

      Succinct!

    • sumsuch 4.3

      Read the evidence. Which is the thing between us and the Right — and why the born again Christians don’t like us — and between us and disaster. Reason and demo-cracy go hand in hand.

  3. Incognito 5

    This is just a thought but when you want to rage against the machine, so to speak, it helps to have a clear identifiable & tangible target such as 1080. Climate Change is much more nebulous; it is so evasive, so overwhelming, that people simply shut down feeling powerless. The powers that be have much invested, and everything to lose, in maintaining these feelings of powerlessness and they actively try & prevent people from realising their collective power and using it …

    • Bill 5.1

      I agree with your thought, but…(and then I’m going to leave this thread before I turn comments into a blue rash of memememe)….

      there is a carbon budget. It is known. There are emission totals and their rates. These are known via retrospective measurement. From that, we know the necessary reduction rate in fossil that would keep us in budget. (It varies a bit from country to country, but is about 10% per annum.) And the reduction must be ongoing down to zero – where zero is not “net zero”, but none, nada, zilch).

      There’s the target. (zero) There’s the ‘agent’ (carbon emitting sources of energy). Put those two things together and get on with it.

      • marty mars 5.1.1

        Bill – most people imo are not interested 8n the numbers etc you love and quote. They don’t care, don’t understand and don’t care. Anti 1080 is emotive and drags a wide variety in. It is a classic for these times because the whole debate is emotive yet argued apparently rationally. Trump style. Lies bullshit and agendas. Now climate change has all that but until it gets worse it won’t be handleable for people- too big, too hard.

        A pithy slogan – big mirrors everywhere saying – it’s YOUR problem!

        • gsays 5.1.1.1

          So in your eyes, to be against a poison that kills in a painful, slow, inhumane way, is just emotive.

          It also kills indiscriminately, anything that invests it – dogs, horses, koura….

          Please enlighten me, where negative I lied and what agenda do you think I am pushing?

          • marty mars 5.1.1.1.1

            Everyone including doc is against poison – it’s just the best we have at the moment. Come up with a better idea and everyone will do it.

          • mauī 5.1.1.1.2

            gsays I saw the protest on the news tonight. The demographic there appeared to be a lot of men, in outdoors gear, sunglasses. A little bit rough if that’s not too harsh? Now is this the sort of crowd who are so passionate about animal cruelty that you would see them volunteering at the local SPCA. Somehow I doubt it, they are outdoorsmen, they have skin in the game. Possibly possum skin, you know?… You might find that killing possums for skins can be equally as barbaric. Go check out the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment’s report on 1080. There you’ll see trapping live possums is put on par with poisoning them in terms of animal welfare.

          • mauī 5.1.1.1.3

            It also kills indiscriminately, anything that invests it – dogs, horses, koura….

            That is misleading, strict conditions are put on it’s use. I would doubt any of those non-target animals get caught up in a successfully run operation. Those animals are most at risk by people ignoring signs and warnings.

            • gsays 5.1.1.1.3.1

              Hmm.. I have seen footage of koura fighting over a bait. Perhaps they hadn’t read the signs.

              All of which is immaterial, the way 1080 kills is painful and slow.
              I am not a vegan, I am not a trapper, just someone who isn’t swayed by possums = evil, native is good. I have watched morepork kill young fantail in the nest.

              But we are digressing from the point of the post.

              • left_forward

                Very selective concerns gsays.. you’re seemingly content to eat cows, sheep, pigs, ducks, lambs, and chickens (slaughtered by the hundreds of billions worldwide each year), but very concerned about a horse or dog or even koura that might occasionally succomb to 1080.

                Of course nobody is saying opossums are evil either, they are just destroying the habitat for native flora and fauna (just as humans are !).
                And yes preserving native habitat is indeed a ‘good’ that is worthy of protection.

                • gsays

                  Akin to the vibe in this thread, I have virtually no influence over foreign farming practices.
                  You will need to brush up on your mind reading abilities as I do not eat much pork nor chicken, basically because of the cruelty (Also the flavour of poultry has diminished in the last two decades).
                  Cough.. steroids, hormones..Cough cough.

                  1080 use in Aotearoa is something that I have a bit more sway on. Funnily enough, there aren’t many other countries that do use it…?

                  It is the cruel, painful and unnecessary death that makes me oppose its indiscriminate use.

                  • KJT

                    You prefer the cruel, painful and unnecessary death of native chicks, by wild cats, dogs, possums, stoats etc?

                    • gsays

                      You prefer the cruel, painful and unnecessary death of native chicks, by wild cats, dogs, possums, stoats etc?

                      To death by 1080, yes.

                    • gsays

                      This is not a tina situation.
                      Put a bounty of $10.

                      Pet food, although a memory is stirring that a viable export opossum pet food business ceased because of the threat of 1080.

                      Part of that regional lolly scramble can go into job schemes taking youth off the concrete into the Bush.

                      I am aware I have only mentioned opossum, but with more feet on the ground the trapping of rats, mustelids and cats becomes more viable.

                    • KJT

                      1080 allows those chicks to reach adulthood.

        • Bill 5.1.1.2

          I don’t ‘love’ the numbers marty. They are what they are. And sure, numbers are maybe a bit too clinical or whatever, but they offer the basic understanding, give politicians and policy makers no wriggle room, and can, or need to be translated into some “pithy slogan” or what not that packs emotional punch most people will relate and react to.

      • Incognito 5.1.2

        Ok then, let’s go with this. The problem is, as I see it, that it is way too big and runs the risk of becoming an empty slogan. In my view, to be (more) effective, it needs to be broken down in smaller achievable targets. People are more inclined to come on board if they can see the task(s) ahead as ‘manageable’. Same applies to politicians: if the required policies can be made more ‘palatable’ to the electorate and not lead to immediate political ‘suicide’. This does not mean that policies become ‘watered down’ or that this should be done by stealth but rather the opposite; they need to be open about it and build trust, much more trust, and this will lead to more meaningful engagement with the public – after all, it’s the public, not the 120 MPs, who will have to make the necessary changes in behaviour and lifestyle. If politicians fail to build this deeper relationships founded on trust they risk further alienation, frustration, and dismissal and we’ll all boil like the proverbial frogs in the pan with hot water.

        • Bill 5.1.2.1

          There’s no way around the physics of it.

          If marty’s right in claiming numbers turn people off then…. what? “Cut or Bust”? Whatever – something simple, real and all encompassing – but not “smaller achievable targets” because there are none. 10% reductions are the very least we can maybe get away with. Obviously, there’s no guarantee we get away with that level of action.

          But at some point (if there’s to be one arrived at) then we have to get our heads around the fact that we, and everything we do, is going to have to adapt to the changes we make before the reality of physics.

          If we choose to adapt to the climatic effects that will follow from not taking affirmative action instead, then we’re stuffed. As far as much of the world goes, we’re just not biologically capable of adapting to the warming that’s just a little way off.

          And if pollies are running to “comfort illusions” because they think acknowledging reality will lose them elections (do we really think they’re “in the know” and/or “on the ball” btw?), then they need to up their fucking game or fuck the fuck off.

          Otherwise…

          • Incognito 5.1.2.1.1

            People don’t give a toss about the physics of CC because they don’t understand it; it is more complex & complicated than Einstein’s theories, for example (way too ‘esoteric’ and only for real experts). They’ll ‘understand’ things they can see with their own eyes, not abstract models & extrapolations. That’s not to say that people are stupid but rather that the message should be kept simple (basic) and, most of all, honest.

            Of course, there are “smaller achievable targets”! CC is not the result of one big human activity; it’s the result of many smaller processes that, over time, culminate into CC that is a global disaster in the making. Thus, to tackle CC, it needs to be addressed at each of those smaller contributions; death by a thousand cuts can only be averted by preventing those thousand cuts – there is no single ‘killer blow’. Maybe we’re talking different things here?

            Yes, pollies need to up their game but the electorate does too by allowing them do so. In fact, the voters need to give the pollies the mandate to make the necessary changes. But, and this is a very big “but”, it must be a two-way thing; we cannot blame or accuse the pollies of failing at their duty if we chop their heads off at the first attempt to even put CC on the table let alone when they propose some real changes to counter CC.

            Ideally, arguments to combat CC are not singular but serve more than one purpose. That is, there are more benefits than just (!) CC. People are sensitive to such arguments and their merit …

            • Bill 5.1.2.1.1.1

              Most of AGW is the result of burning fossil fuels. Lesser contributions (from agricultural practices for example) are themselves, largely only possible because of fossil fuel use.

              If we don’t cut emissions from sources of energy (ie – primarily cut fossil use) by 10% every year from now until we get to zero, then two degrees becomes an impossibility. That’s the reality. And that’s the smallest available target – every year, another reduction of 10%.

              • Incognito

                Ok, you talk about overall target, the required outcome. I meant the specific steps that need to be (or could be) taken in order to achieve that overall target. We’re slowly inching to actionable changes on a daily timeframe and a house-hold (or individual) kind of level. Some of these will be enacted ‘spontaneously’ (i.e. voluntarily) and some will have to be imposed by our Lawmakers (politicians); this will require much more engagement from both the public and politicians with each other.

            • KJT 5.1.2.1.1.2

              AGW is incredibly simple.

              Claiming it is difficult to understand is a cop out.

              The earth has a temperature suitable for life, because the atmosphere retains just enough of the suns heat. Gases humans are introducing, with their energy and food production, are changing this balance. Made worse by removing forests, which absorb those gases.

              Climate change is the result of putting more heat into the earths weather systems.

              The more energy you put into a system, the faster moving and more chaotic, it becomes.

              The solution is obvious. A steady state, sustainable use of energy is required.
              Unfortunately. Our economic system is dependent on continuous growth, which requires continual increases in consumption.

              • Incognito

                AGW is incredibly simple.

                I don’t want to be splitting hairs but I said that the “physics of CC” is enormously complex.

                To argue the opposite is disingenuous.

                Your comment explained nothing; it was a simplistic narrative, not a scientific explanation of cause and effect. It did not refer the Laws of Physics and how these underpin CC in a rational and unbiased way.

                I’m giving you a hard time because this what CC deniers do: they claim that CC is just (!) a narrative with no objective basis that can be verified irrespective of one’s background or cultural grounding (AKA ‘conditioning’; the usual postmodern blabla). To counter such argument you must come up with a strong(er) counter-argument, not just more narrative.

                The solution is obvious. A steady state, sustainable use of energy is required.

                I have no idea what you mean by this. Are you saying that all use of energy contributes to CC? What makes it sustainable or unsustainable? Do we have to curb our use of energy or transfer/transform to other forms of energy in terms of production & use?

                Nebulous debate won’t get us out of the hole …

      • corodale 5.1.3

        yes, but do you take the next step and add cow methane? I would say, not as a 1:1 with CO2 eq.

        Seriously, you wont make progress if you tax cow methane. Unless it applies as a limit, farm specific at reg council level, cap on cows/ha, which drives organic fert, to cropping food, n pushing hay, grassing and dung beetles, and natural soil n light-based N assimilation. A 10%p/a reduction on methane limit is ok, if it is measured against organic practices, to avoid 1080 style solutions with spraying chemicals on pasture to reduce methane during digestion. Plantain and chicory are real options, KISS without GE n BS.

  4. Draco T Bastard 6

    So what might it tell us, when a gathering about the future viability of how we live attracts a smattering of people from a single demographic, and a gathering about the use of a poison seemingly attracts every demographic but, and (maybe) two or three times as many people?

    That the majority of people are a bunch uninformed fuckwits who have absolutely NFI WTF they’re talking about?

    If these people want to protect the environment from possums then, ATM, we need 1080. We simply have nothing else to replace it until the scientists produce a drug that makes all possums in NZ infertile.

    I don’t know what, if any, information was available from the 1080 gathering.

    We can pretty much assume that it was all lies. Same as the BS about vaccines causing autism.

    • Stuart Munro 6.1

      The aerial use of 1080 flies in the face of all recent progress in terms of bait stations and the like in reducing collateral kills. So we cannot pretend that it is a measure with any pro-environmental intent – aerial 1080 drops cheerfully kill native species.

      It’s a budgetary move – a calculation that massive poisoning will create a net environmental benefit. But it deliberately ignores counter evidence, like the survival of rat populations through successive drops. And it estimates collateral kills based on found body counts, not remainder population counts, when it should do both because bird bodies are readily missed, and understating them overstates the safety and validity of the practice.

      Perhaps most importantly however, there is little or no public support for mass poisoning programs, however much they may appeal to Treasury, the architect of so many of the howling disasters still afflicting our long suffering nation.

      • gsays 6.1.1

        Well said Stuart, I’ve long maintained that the only way 1080 use can be justified is through a balance sheet lens.

        • corodale 6.1.1.1

          That fits my world view, as I see Sage as a top quality Minister. This is an example, yet again of governance by finance, the capital overload of debt n QE. The people are puppets, but they are making the least bad option, til things are fine tuned.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2

        The aerial use of 1080 flies in the face of all recent progress in terms of bait stations and the like in reducing collateral kills.

        [citation needed]

        It’s a budgetary move – a calculation that massive poisoning will create a net environmental benefit.

        Yes it is and yes it does.

        But it deliberately ignores counter evidence, like the survival of rat populations through successive drops.

        No it doesn’t. It accepts that drops will not be 100% effective. That it’s actually impossible for it to be 100% effective but that it improves survivability of native species.

        And it estimates collateral kills based on found body counts, not remainder population counts, when it should do both because bird bodies are readily missed,

        [Citation needed]

        Although, all the actual evidence that I’ve seen shows native populations increasing after a drop while rat and other pests decrease.

        Perhaps most importantly however, there is little or no public support for mass poisoning programs

        Popularity != right thing to do

        Especially when the people actually don’t know WTF they’re talking about.

        • Stuart Munro 6.1.2.1

          I might try and find the citations for you – but if you didn’t know how the collateral kill rate was calculated, how much trust should we repose in your belief that the effect is net positive? How one calculates things has a big effect on measured outcomes.

          This 1080 thing falls into the category of heroic interventions – it requires great scrupulousness and adherence to precautionary principles because it involves the killing of protected species. As with any budget driven initiative of course ecological wisdom and prudence are the first things thrown out the window.

          It’s not about popularity but democratic assent. Who the hell do these poisoners think they are killing native species? They can and should be charged for their collateral kills.

          1080 is an autocratic policy created by the infallible fuckwits in Wellington. There are few to no boots on the ground ensuring that what they think they’re doing is what is actually happening – as evidenced by the 1080 dumping on Stewart Island.

          • JC 6.1.2.1.1

            “1080 is an autocratic policy created by the infallible fuckwits in Wellington. There are few to no boots on the ground ensuring that what they think they’re doing is what is actually happening – as evidenced by the 1080 dumping on Stewart Island.”

            Hmmm Don’t think they All live in Wellys … Some Reading for you Stuart, and gsays ….

            “Journalist Dave Hansford Hansford has had 39 jobs, according to a friend’s calculation. Among others, he’s been a fisherman, a truck driver, a golf green keeper, a general hand on a farm and a pie baker.

            Dave Hansford wrote a book about the pest poison 1080 because “someone had to”.

            “I’d grown tired of seeing the volume and the extremity and the sheer amounts of BS in circulation about 1080,” he says.”

            http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/92620150/national-portrait-1080-author-dave-hansford

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/105497683/environment-southland-to-investigate-1080-dump-on-stewart-island

            https://thespinoff.co.nz/science/17-07-2018/1080-does-not-kill-kiwis-on-the-contrary-it-helps-them-live/

            https://www.pce.parliament.nz/…/update-report-evaluating-the-use-of-1080-predators-…

            Realise this is off topic on the Post! But then so are your, (and gsays) maligned threads ….

            • Stuart Munro 6.1.2.1.1.1

              With respect, he’s not really coming to grips with the science.

              If you’re going to use sampling to justify a policy, you want to take pains to get the sampling right – especially if it involves killing the species your policies ostensibly aim to protect.

              The scientific justifications of the 1080 campaign that I’ve seen to date don’t hold water, and neither do your links.

              Hansford – it’s an appeal to authority – a common feature of the campaign.

              The 1080 campaign is not directed at protecting birds, but at eliminating possible vectors for livestock disease. This goes some way to explaining why collateral kills are tolerated – if protecting bird species were in fact the reason for it collateral kills would not be tolerated – some of our bird species are quite stressed and it wouldn’t take much to tip them over the edge.

              • JC

                When selecting arguments, particuarly one as bias/ and/or emotional as the pragmatic use of toxins, this issue will always be fraught.

                Similarly, perhaps as a comparison ,…. one could consider the recent advice of Peter Gluckmen, re contamination of houses from methamphetamine and attendent issues associated ….

                https://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2018/07/07/the-legacy-of-a-dismantled-prime-minister-revisited/

                Simiarly, it is useful to take objective advice, (albeit from Wellington) from another objective source …

                i.e. Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, ( Dr Jan Wright), “concluded that not only should 1080 use continue, but that we should use more of it.”

                https://www.pce.parliament.nz/our-work/news-insights/archive/2013/environment-commissioner-welcomes-epa-report-on-the-use-of-1080

                • Stuart Munro

                  Again with the appeals to authority.

                  Show me rigorous sampling – show me costs for proper bait stations and ground teams – show me population data for rats and stoats and 1080 pellets so small they won’t kill tomtits with a body mass of maybe 30 grams.

                  Funnily these are never the arguments that are made, because, like the P contamination, the 1080 campaign is only masquerading as science for PR purposes.

                  • corodale

                    These ground teams of trappers could be post school conscripts living in tents on a UBI to reduce housing demand.

                    • Stuart Munro

                      I certainly feel that such groups, properly trained and supported, would be both better for the environment and have a better quality of life than those who were recently pushed into minimum wage bus driving as part of Wellington’s epic saga of managerial incompetence.

                    • gsays

                      Sorry Bill, (ironically your example has been repeated here, diverse folk overwhelmingly impassioned by 1080, not a lot about CC).

                      Brilliant corodale, inspired thinking.

                      Here is a tune:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uLPYSlgiDlE

                      There is a lack of imagination around this issue.
                      I had a look at your link JC, Dave Hansford’s book, again it seems to stay within a slim paradigm, and immediately dimisses imaginative schemes and minimizes the pain.

                      Why the dickens not do trials on peppering and write the science?

                      Money isn’t the issue, it is a lack of imagination and will.

                  • KJT

                    Show me your evidence against judicious 1080 use.

                    You can’t, can you, because you prefer to ignore any science that doesn’t fit your reckons?

      • JC 6.1.3

        “A group of prominent New Zealand Māori environmentalists and activists have signed onto a statement regarding the use of 1080.”

        http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1809/S00050/maori-environmentalists-and-activists-release-1080-statement.htm

  5. greywarshark 7

    Bill
    I think you made valuable observations. Valuable to me anyway because I have noticed similar things. When it comes to rising for climate it tends to be the middle class who appear to be more interested in the planet, animal welfare, and green matters than in the welfare of ordinary people who are being the aforementioned planet, or the livable parts of it.

    The 1080 protest is the ordinary people who are pushed to the outer and able to supplement income with shooting animals or birds legally. They fear that the country is prepared to give them the Muroroa treatment; we don’t want this experiment near our main population areas but out in sparsely populated boondocks we’ll let it rip. Both sides have a point, as 1080 done carefully can blitz more predators than the native bird life that get a deadly dose. They also say that it doesn’t permanently affect water. But a hunting dog that is affected and dies is a member of the family, and a valuable help to catching feral pigs etc. So ordinary people in the country who have managed on a shoestring feel rightly threatened.

    By the way. Here is a quite good video link about climate change confusion that I came across – potholer54. Top 10 Climate Change Myths.

    • Dennis Frank 7.1

      Yes, an excellent resource for anyone presenting the topic to a savvy, sophisticated, scientifically literate audience! Totally bewildering to 99.9% of voters, of course.

      But where it would be most valuable is a class of science students interested in the topic, with the presenter freezing the video just after each telling point is made so the class can discuss it to clarify confusion and reinforce their comprehension.

      • greywarshark 7.1.1

        Dennis F
        That sort of thing is an absolutely brilliant idea. The speed that new info registers and then is overlayed can make it hard to absorb. I can read the paper and then try to remember just what has seemed important enough to my mind to take and hold. I have been dismayed that so few matters come to mind.

        Television is worse as visual and aural and the speed of images all clash. Speech needs visual reference for me, but discussion would help reinforce the value of the message.

        Students are taught measures to increase retaining info. In this age our educational facilities are not providing us all with a wide understanding of our world, our countryis political system and culture and we are left to pick it up from the media. We have to concentrate on learning those things that will help our specialist education. In our everyday world we need to use similar memory joggers to help us function in an informed way on culture, climate change, current philosophies etc. So we need acquired skills of analysis and critical thinking to identify trends and mindsets which will have negative outcomes. If we don’t understand, recognise the negatives and act to slow or change them they carry on and become mainstream.

        • Dennis Frank 7.1.1.1

          Good that you can see the potential but let’s hope it gets through to younger generations, both teachers & students, who can actually apply it!

          That said, wouldn’t surprise me at all if educational administrators were to forbid it because climate change isn’t in the syllabus & adults are meant to be dealing with it. And clamour from denialist politicians demanding kids be protected from propaganda, huh? 🙄

          • corodale 7.1.1.1.1

            Yes, could they slowly work through such a video during a year of military service. But, just because we and Minister Sage are capable of following the video, still doesn’t solve the challenge of a govt/military/market choosing a which video. Nah, very good.

  6. Pat 8

    curious about the demographics of the two groups…is CC erroneously perceived as a ‘first world’ or middle class problem?

    • Bill 8.1

      If I was working working class – busting my arse between running myself ragged and stressing about a fair number of basics, what am I getting on the TV and whatever else that might make me think “Hang on a minute!” when it comes to AGW?

      I notice the BBC has just come out with (from The Guardian)

      BBC admits ‘we get climate change coverage wrong too often’

      Make of that what you will.

      • Pat 8.1.1

        busy and with perhaps more immediate concerns but that relies too much on stereotyping….agree the MSM is hardly pressing the issue but anyone would have to be living under a rock or deliberately ignoring the issue to be completely unaware.

        It may of course have been an aberration

        • Bill 8.1.1.1

          I don’t think it was an aberration.

          But I’m way too tired to articulate my thoughts on it and sign-post some of the reasons I think lie behind it. Another time.

      • Pat 8.1.2

        “But it adds: “Journalists need to be aware of the guest’s viewpoint and how to challenge it effectively. As with all topics, we must make clear to the audience which organisation the speaker represents, potentially how that group is funded and whether they are speaking with authority from a scientific perspective.” Lawson’s Global Warming Policy Foundation does not disclose its source of funding.”

        Thought that would have been covered in the first semester of journalism…..obviously not for those employed by the BBC

  7. Timeforacupoftea 9

    Oh come on Bill.
    ( Down by The Exchange, there was maybe something like 40 or 50 people and…well, the only demographic that seemed to be missing was the white middle class. )

    Can’t have been the white upperclass surely !

    Maybe it was a rent a mob gang as I noted yesterdayFriday Forest and Bird had a representative at Countdown Andersons Bay Road the same group that Greenpeace use with a very broad North American accent.

    As you know we have few Maori down here too bloody cold plenty of Asian around the Uni.
    We have mainly retired white people.

    Tell me the last time you saw a Prostitute on Dunedin Street Corners and tell me which one.

  8. sumsuch 10

    I love that climate change is not chewable for the media. Is it 15 or 30 years before this ridiculous media culture is chewed by the climate. I really want it to be the latter, for my oldage, but since the facts are ahead of the forecasts …

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  • The Real Thing
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    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 weeks ago

  • Transformative investment in cancer treatments and more new medicines
    The coalition Government is delivering up to 26 cancer treatments as part of an overall package of up to 54 more new medicines, Health Minister Dr Shane Reti and Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. “Pharmac estimates that around 175,000 people will benefit from the additional treatments in just ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • More support for drought-affected communities
    The coalition Government is providing more financial support to drought-stricken farmers and growers in many parts of the country to help with essential living costs. “Rural Assistance Payments have been made available in 38 districts affected by dry conditions to help eligible farmers and growers whose income has taken a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • Job seekers to report on progress after six months from today
    A new requirement for people on Jobseeker Support benefits to meet with MSD after six months to assess how their job search is going gets underway today. About 20,000 Jobseeker beneficiaries with full-time work obligations are expected to attend MSD’s new ‘Work check-in’ seminars over the next 12 months, Social ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • New cops means more Police on the beat
    The decision to deploy more Police on the beat in Auckland CBD has been welcomed by Police Minister Mark Mitchell and Associate Police Minister Casey Costello. Starting from 1 July, an additional 21 police officers will be redeployed in Auckland City, bringing the total number of beat police in the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government takes action to address youth crime
    The Government is introducing a new declaration for young offenders to ensure they face tougher consequences and are better supported to turn their lives around, Children’s Minister Karen Chhour announced today. The establishment of a Young Serious Offender declaration delivers on a coalition Government commitment and supports the Government’s target ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Reserve Bank chair reappointed
    Professor Neil Quigley has been reappointed as Chair of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand Board for a further term of two years, until 30 June 2026.  “Professor Quigley has played a key role in establishing the new Board after the commencement of the new RBNZ Act on 1 July ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • School attendance increases
    School attendance data released today shows an increase in the number of students regularly attending school to 61.7 per cent in term one. This compares to 59.5 per cent in term one last year and 53.6 per cent in term four. “It is encouraging to see more children getting to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Record investment in public transport services
    The Government has announced a record 41 per cent increase in indicative funding for public transport services and operations, and confirmed the rollout of the National Ticketing Solution (NTS) that will enable contactless debit and credit card payments starting this year in Auckland, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“This Government is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • GDP data shows need to strengthen and grow the economy
    GDP figures for the March quarter reinforce the importance of restoring fiscal discipline to public spending and driving more economic growth, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says.  Data released today by Stats NZ shows GDP has risen 0.2 per cent for the quarter to March.   “While today’s data is technically in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Women continue to make up over 50 per cent on public sector boards
    Women’s representation on public sector boards and committees has reached 50 per cent or above for the fourth consecutive year, with women holding 53.9 per cent of public sector board roles, Acting Minister for Women Louise Upston says. “This is a fantastic achievement, but the work is not done. To ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government supporting Māori business success
    The Coalition Government is supporting Māori to boost development and the Māori economy through investment in projects that benefit the regions, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones and Māori Development Minister Tama Potaka say. “As the Regional Development Minister, I am focused on supporting Māori to succeed. The Provincial Growth Fund ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Better solutions for earthquake-prone buildings
    Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk has announced that the review into better managing the risks of earthquake-prone buildings has commenced. “The terms of reference published today demonstrate the Government’s commitment to ensuring we get the balance right between public safety and costs to building owners,” Mr Penk says.  “The Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Prime Minister wraps up visit to Japan
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has just finished a successful three-day visit to Japan, where he strengthened political relationships and boosted business links. Mr Luxon’s visit culminated in a bilateral meeting with Japanese Prime Minister Kishida Fumio followed by a state dinner. “It was important for me to meet Prime Minister Kishida in person ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Major business deals signed on PM’s Japan trip
    Significant business deals have been closed during the visit of Prime Minister Christopher Luxon to Japan this week, including in the areas of space, renewable energy and investment.  “Commercial deals like this demonstrate that we don’t just export high-quality agricultural products to Japan, but also our world-class technology, expertise, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Strategic Security speech, Tokyo
    Minasan, konnichiwa, kia ora and good afternoon everyone. Thank you for the invitation to speak to you today and thank you to our friends at the Institute for International Socio-Economic Studies and NEC for making this event possible today.  It gives me great pleasure to be here today, speaking with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • National Infrastructure Pipeline worth over $120 billion
    The National Infrastructure Pipeline, which provides a national view of current or planned infrastructure projects, from roads, to water infrastructure, to schools, and more, has climbed above $120 billion, Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop says. “Our Government is investing a record amount in modern infrastructure that Kiwis can rely on as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Making it easier to build infrastructure
    The Government is modernising the Public Works Act to make it easier to build infrastructure, Minister for Land Information Chris Penk announced today. An independent panel will undertake an eight-week review of the Act and advise on common sense changes to enable large scale public works to be built faster and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ enhances North Korea sanctions monitoring
    New Zealand will enhance its defence contributions to monitoring violations of sanctions against North Korea, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today.  The enhancement will see the New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) increase its contributions to North Korea sanctions monitoring, operating out of Japan. “This increase reflects the importance New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Speech to Safeguard National Health and Safety Conference
    Good afternoon everyone. It’s great to be with you all today before we wrap up Day One of the annual Safeguard National Health and Safety Conference. Thank you to the organisers and sponsors of this conference, for the chance to talk to you about the upcoming health and safety consultation. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Ōtaki to north of Levin alliance agreements signed
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone for the Ōtaki to north of Levin Road of National Significance (RoNS), following the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) signing interim alliance agreements with two design and construction teams who will develop and ultimately build the new expressway.“The Government’s priority for transport ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Improvements to stopping Digital Child Exploitation
    The Department of Internal Affairs [Department] is making a significant upgrade to their Digital Child Exploitation Filtering System, which blocks access to websites known to host child sexual abuse material, says Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden.  “The Department will incorporate the up-to-date lists of websites hosting child sexual ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • New vaccine research aims to combat prevalent bovine disease
    A vaccine to prevent an infectious disease that costs New Zealand cattle farmers more than $190 million each year could radically improve the health of our cows and boost on-farm productivity, Associate Agriculture Minister Andrew Hoggard says. The Ministry for Primary Industries is backing a project that aims to develop ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Making it easier to build granny flats
    The Government has today announced that it is making it easier for people to build granny flats, Acting Prime Minister Winston Peters and RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop say. “Making it easier to build granny flats will make it more affordable for families to live the way that suits them ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • High Court Judge appointed
    Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Auckland King’s Counsel Gregory Peter Blanchard as a High Court Judge. Justice Blanchard attended the University of Auckland from 1991 to 1995, graduating with an LLB (Honours) and Bachelor of Arts (English). He was a solicitor with the firm that is now Dentons ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Health workforce numbers rise
    Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says new data released today shows encouraging growth in the health workforce, with a continued increase in the numbers of doctors, nurses and midwives joining Health New Zealand. “Frontline healthcare workers are the beating heart of the healthcare system. Increasing and retaining our health workforce ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government to overhaul firearms laws
    Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee has today announced a comprehensive programme to reform New Zealand's outdated and complicated firearms laws. “The Arms Act has been in place for over 40 years. It has been amended several times – in a piecemeal, and sometimes rushed way. This has resulted in outdated ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government delivers landmark specialist schools investment
    The coalition Government is delivering record levels of targeted investment in specialist schools so children with additional needs can thrive. As part of Budget 24, $89 million has been ringfenced to redevelop specialist facilities and increase satellite classrooms for students with high needs. This includes: $63 million in depreciation funding ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Major health and safety consultation begins
    A substantial consultation on work health and safety will begin today with a roadshow across the regions over the coming months, says Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden.  This the first step to deliver on the commitment to reforming health and safety law and regulations, set out in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Growing the potential of New Zealand’s forestry sector in partnership
    Forestry Minister Todd McClay, today announced the start of the Government’s plan to restore certainty and confidence in the forestry and wood processing sector. “This government will drive investment to unlock the industry’s economic potential for growth,” Mr McClay says. “Forestry’s success is critical to rebuilding New Zealand’s economy, boosting ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government cancels forestry ETS annual service charges for 2023-24
    Annual service charges in the forestry Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) will be cancelled for 2023/24, Forestry Minister Todd McClay says. “The sector has told me the costs imposed on forestry owners by the previous government were excessive and unreasonable and I agree,” Mr McClay says. “They have said that there ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Speech to the LGNZ Infrastructure Symposium
    Introduction Thank you for having me here today and welcome to Wellington, the home of the Hurricanes, the next Super Rugby champions. Infrastructure – the challenge This government has inherited a series of big challenges in infrastructure. I don’t need to tell an audience as smart as this one that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government boosts Agriculture and food trade with China
    Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay and Food Safety Minister Andrew Hoggard welcomed outcomes to boost agricultural and food trade between New Zealand and China. A number of documents were signed today at Government House that will improve the business environment between New Zealand and China, and help reduce barriers, including on infant formula ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • NZ and China launch Services Trade Negotiations
    Trade Minister Todd McClay, and China’s Commerce Minister Wang Wentao, today announced the official launch of Negotiations on Services Trade between the two countries.  “The Government is focused on opening doors for services exporters to grow the New Zealand’s economy,” Mr McClay says.  As part of the 2022 New Zealand-China Free Trade Agreement Upgrade ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Prime Minister Luxon meets with Premier Li
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon met with Chinese Premier Li Qiang at Government House in Wellington today.  “I was pleased to welcome Premier Li to Wellington for his first official visit, which marks 10 years since New Zealand and China established a Comprehensive Strategic Partnership,” Mr Luxon says. “The Premier and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government and business tackling gender pay gap
    The coalition Government is taking action to reduce the gender pay gap in New Zealand through the development of a voluntary calculation tool. “Gender pay gaps have impacted women for decades, which is why we need to continue to drive change in New Zealand,” Acting Minister for Women Louise Upston ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Funding Boost for Rural Support Trusts
    The coalition Government is boosting funding for Rural Support Trusts to provide more help to farmers and growers under pressure, Rural Communities Minister Mark Patterson announced today. “A strong and thriving agricultural sector is crucial to the New Zealand economy and one of the ways to support it is to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Latest data shows size of public service decreasing
    Spending on contractors and consultants continues to fall and the size of the Public Service workforce has started to decrease after years of growth, according to the latest data released today by the Public Service Commission. Workforce data for the quarter from 31 December 23 to 31 March 24 shows ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Speech to the Law Association
    Thank you to the Law Association for inviting me to speak this morning. As a former president under its previous name — the Auckland District Law Society — I take particular satisfaction in seeing this organisation, and its members, in such good heart. As Attorney-General, I am grateful for these ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • 25 years on, NZ reaffirms enduring friendship with Timor Leste
    New Zealand is committed to working closely with Timor-Leste to support its prosperity and resilience, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says.   “This year is the 25th anniversary of New Zealand sending peacekeepers to Timor-Leste, who contributed to the country’s stabilisation and ultimately its independence,” Mr Peters says.    “A quarter ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Inquiry requested into rural banking
    Promoting robust competition in the banking sector is vital to rebuilding the economy, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says.  “New Zealanders deserve a banking sector that is as competitive as possible. Banking services play an important role in our communities and in the economy. Kiwis rely on access to lending when ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

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