Act likes some rights but not others

Written By: - Date published: 7:50 am, July 22nd, 2021 - 37 comments
Categories: act, human rights, law, law and "order", the praiseworthy and the pitiful, uncategorized - Tags:

I hope the Free Speech coalition is taking note.  Because this week Act has proposed policy involving some pretty outrageous breaches of human rights on groups within our country.

The funny thing is that Act has tried to make out that it wants to protect our rights.  Just read what it said about freedom of speech:

Tougher hate speech laws will take away basic rights to free speech, shut down debate, and make people afraid to express themselves.

In short, it will put cancel culture on steroids.

We are going to see petitions and lynch mobs demanding Police prosecute people with unpopular views. The only people who win are the perpetually offended.

Then on Tuesday Act assembled a lynch mob and demanded that people with unpopular status be attacked by the authorities and that their rights be taken away.

It was nothing new.  It was basically an amalgamation of traditional beneficiary bashing and gang bashing.  But what was interesting is that Act is trying to eat National’s and Simeon Brown’s tough on crime rhetoric.

Act promised to:

  • Increase incarceration rates and bring back the three strikes law,
  • Change the law so that prisoners could not be granted parole unless they completed a rehabilitation course,
  • Require gang members with kids to use electronic cards that prevented spending on alcohol and tobacco,
  • This one is a doozy, exempt police officers from the hate speech laws,
  • Provide for Gang Injunction Orders which would allow the Police to apply to the Courts for an injunction against an individual on the National Gang List to “prohibit bad behaviours including being in a particular location or associating with particular people. It could also be used to require positive actions, like attending rehabilitation.”

All good red meat to the laura norda brigade.  And clear breaches of multiple rights such as the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, freedom of movement and association, and the right not to be arbitrarily detained to name a few.

It takes a great deal of agility to be principled on protection of the freedom of expression but then offer a big meh to rights of assembly, free movement and the right to due process.  I am sure a finely calibrated weighing of the political implications were involved.

And it is interesting that Act is trying to eat National’s lunch on Laura Norda.  I wonder how National will respond?

37 comments on “Act likes some rights but not others ”

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  1. tc 1
    22 July 2021 at 9:11 am

    National will likely respond with an even bigger dogwhistle, it’s what superior financial backing affords you.

    Collins and Seymour continue to fight over that decreasing piece of the electoral pie whilst the new kids on the block get on with being inclusive and living as they see it.

    Bring back 3 strikes eh…..any jonolists out there care to do some work over that tawdry piece of policy, it's actual effects and why it was repealed. Not holding my breath.

    • Gosman 1.1
      22 July 2021 at 9:36 am

      The last poll had both ACT and National increasing their support so they aren't really cannibalising a decreasing share of the electorate.

      • tc 1.1.1
        22 July 2021 at 10:12 am

        Because polls are sooo reliable…..especially out of cycle.

        • Gosman 1.1.1.1
          22 July 2021 at 11:11 am

          They are indicative of trends and general feeling. What is clear is that there is a significant section of the electorate that is amenable to the ideas expressed by both National and ACT on various topics such as Gangs.

          • left for dead 1.1.1.1.1
            23 July 2021 at 6:57 am

            Gosman,yes we know their is more than two racists, hypocrites in New Zealand,Sadly .

  2. Gosman 2
    22 July 2021 at 9:34 am

    ACT is not a pure libertarian party but even if it was libertarianism does not mean people are free to get welfare without restrictions nor does it mean you are free to form criminal gangs and carry out harmful actions against others without consequences.

    • woodart 2.1
      22 July 2021 at 12:05 pm

      your statement is like driftnet fishing. so full of unwanted rubbish that gets collected in such wide generalisation. liberarianism should mean that a know-nothing on a website spouting opinions on libertarianism is neither right nor wrong. stupid comments like doing harmful actions against others is so unfocused and all encompassing, that pretty much every human action somewhere, cause some sort of harm to another human somewhere else. as for criminal gangs, a bunch of businesses colludeing to drive up prices, avoid taxes, pollute, etc,etc. where does it end? with dog whistling polies, one would hope they get savaged by some of those dogs…

    • Incognito 2.2
      22 July 2021 at 3:01 pm

      Of course we’re 100% free to form criminal crayon classes and join harmful hobby hubs, just not criminal gangs with loud intimidating motorbikes. Similarly, we’re free to smoke ourselves to death with legal tobacco, as long as it doesn’t come from criminal gangs. And we’re entitled to drink ourselves into early graves with pretty legal substances, as long as they’re not sold by criminal gangs. Consequences are only consequential if they’re caused by criminal gangs. Duh!

      • RedLogix 2.2.1
        24 July 2021 at 8:28 am

        I cannot think of anything a human can do that does not have some potentially bad consequence. If that was the sole consideration none of us would ever get out of bed – and that would have negative consequences too.

        But as a society we also make rules that state some activities are beyond the pale. And the negative consequences arising from criminal actions lie in another category altogether.

        • Incognito 2.2.1.1
          24 July 2021 at 5:55 pm

          Agreed.

          My point is the kneejerk reaction to and rejection of anything gang. For example, a knitting group is perceived as a bunch of lovely peace-loving people together drinking tea and eating biscuits yet a knitting gang doesn’t have the same vibe, I bet; the word is heavily loaded in people’s minds and raises many negative connotations – not without reason, of course. Life is a little more nuanced and complicated than this simplistic B & W stuff. So, if our political debates are to be genuine, constructive & progressive, and reflect the realities of this world (AKA the good, the bad, the ugly) then we should at least be aware of this pitfall and strive to get a few shades of pale into the conversation. However, many seem to vehemently and almost violently object to this too. Go figure.

  3. Pete 3
    22 July 2021 at 10:21 am

    Act knows there's an audience thick enough to not see the contradictions in its policy.

    • Gosman 3.1
      22 July 2021 at 11:12 am

      Yes ACT supporters tend to be so thick that they don't generally require State support for their incomes.

      • vto 3.1.1
        22 July 2021 at 11:27 am

        There is no such link

        If you had been there you would know this

      • woodart 3.1.2
        22 July 2021 at 12:09 pm

        the whole act party were on the bludge for years. couldnt even afford to buy there own cup of tea! even now, they are on life support. seymour will have to actually win his electorate honestley next election. without him, the whole party goes back into the phonebooth.

        • Gosman 3.1.2.1
          22 July 2021 at 12:33 pm

          A party on 11.5% is not on life support. Unless you think The Greens are also on life support? What would that mean the Maori party is – In the morgue?

          • woodart 3.1.2.1.1
            22 July 2021 at 1:07 pm

            relying on seymour who relied on nats being charitable, and are now relying on their new fans NOT returning to the mothershit er ship. thats life support.

      • Pete 3.1.3
        22 July 2021 at 1:53 pm

        We have former act leader Richard Prebble saying one way to not have young people joining gangs is to have strong rugby league clubs. "Young people who play sport, waka ama or kapa haka do not join gangs," he said

        Yeah, we know that. Go to an Act conference and say, "I think we should put as much into sport, waka ama and kapa haka as prisons" and see how you get on. If Jacinda Ardern announced that was to happen, what would the reaction be from David Seymour and Act?

        How do Act supporters feel about kids doing kapa haka in schools?

        There are Act supporters who are so clever they mightn't require State support for their incomes. That clever, sure, but that dumb they primarily think the most effective strategies to have people change their ways and function positively are by punitive approaches.

        So dumb Act rubbish the notion of even engaging with gangs by talking with them. Oh, except of course if your name is Nicole McKee and it isn't really a gang member just their representative and it doesn't really count because it was at Parliament. So dumb that they think the world is that dumb that we'd accept that sort of bullshit.

      • Brigid 3.1.4
        22 July 2021 at 2:09 pm

        Can you list the Act supporting companies that did not apply for and receive the covid wage subsidy? Aka state support.

        And then list those who have paid it back.

        • Gosman 3.1.4.1
          23 July 2021 at 12:18 pm

          Ummm… the State imposed a lockdown which reduced businesses income it therefore makes sense that the State pay compensation if they want companies not to respond by laying off workers.

      • Rapunzel 3.1.5
        22 July 2021 at 5:45 pm

        Like the Tax Payers Union that's an appearance they like to promote but other than Seymour having been on the tax payers' (State) payroll for a while now drilling down the MPs Epsom hauled up in I've only seen one or two with anything like valid credentials.

        I & most of our cohort vote Labour & have never required "State" support as independent contractors. Now I'm not saying one or more don't have a love of a "ute" but not to the point that some see it as a status symbol of sorts. You have pretty limited perception of who keeps NZ moving.

      • left for dead 3.1.6
        23 July 2021 at 7:01 am

        @ Gosman I do hope you don't have much affect in the running of this country.

  4. AB 4
    22 July 2021 at 11:29 am

    ACT's core purpose is to prevent state power from being used to undermine the economic dominance of their social class – and ideally to capture state power and use it to entrench and extend that dominance.

    The championing of free speech and the tough on crime stance are entirely cynical ploys to gain the electoral success needed to deliver that core purpose. That it leads them into contradictory statements doesn't bother them at all, because they are not driven by principle. However it is the left's failure that has given them any oxygen at all, rather than being dismissed as marginal oddballs.

  5. weka 5
    22 July 2021 at 11:35 am

    so glad I don't have a tv.

  6. Keith Christie 6
    22 July 2021 at 11:36 am

    Unless there is a flood, undeniable sea erosion or uninsurable health problems.

  7. Cooper oil 7
    22 July 2021 at 11:51 am

    David Seymour, a Judas goat leading his sheeple up the ramp to totalitarianism

    • Gosman 7.1
      22 July 2021 at 12:34 pm

      Except most people involved with the ACT party are very happy thank you very much.

      • Robert Guyton 7.1.1
        22 July 2021 at 12:41 pm

        Haaaaappy…baaaaaa…haaaapppy!

      • woodart 7.1.2
        22 July 2021 at 1:09 pm

        prove your claim. where is your source? unsupported opinion.

      • Descendant Of Smith 7.1.3
        22 July 2021 at 2:34 pm

        Then why do they spend all their (public at least) time complaining?

        • Incognito 7.1.3.1
          22 July 2021 at 2:46 pm

          The more people complain about this Government and government in general, the happier ACT is. ACT aims for more people to join the choir of dissonant voices and the louder and more cacophonous it gets, the happier ACT will be.

      • Patricia Bremner 7.1.4
        22 July 2021 at 4:43 pm

        There have been no apologies for past misdemeanors by members from Act.

        What do they “really” do?

      • vto 7.1.5
        22 July 2021 at 6:47 pm

        "Except most people involved with the ACT party are very happy thank you very much."

        That dont mean shit..

        Same applied to the National Socialist Party in 1920's Germany..

  8. georgecom 8
    23 July 2021 at 10:34 pm

    the massive ironies here with ACT's policies

    the self professed champions for keeping government out of private peoples lives, are promoting wowserism and nanny statism. Libertarians or nanny state wowsers?

    the self professed champions of small government and opponents of bureaucracy are proposing a bureaucratic system of 'injunction' which gang members will likely ignore but which will cost the tax payer a pretty penny and suck up valuable police and justice resources better spent fighting crime.

    Libertarians or nanny statist wowser bureaucrats?

  9. peter sim 9
    26 July 2021 at 10:11 pm

    At last gosman is honest. act and the nazis are identical.

    Good Grief ! A breath of honesty from gosman.