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Always an excuse to do nothing

Written By: - Date published: 9:20 am, September 2nd, 2009 - 64 comments
Categories: climate change, labour, national/act government - Tags:

bill_english_againt_kyoto_1Remember FART (Farmers Against Ridiculous Taxes)? Shane Arden driving Myrtle the Tractor up the steps of Parliament? Bill English with his poster carrying the sexist attack on Helen Clark: “the mad cow shouldn’t have signed”? (actually, it was Jenny Shipley who signed us on to Kyoto) 
 
All that wailing and gnashing of teeth, all the dire warnings that New Zealand agriculture would be destroyed were over a levy on ruminant livestock amounting to $300 a year per farm on average (less than quarter of the annual value of milksolids production from a single dairy cow*) was over a levy to fund research into reducing methane emissions (mostly in the form of burps, actually) from ruminants, which accounts for 30% of New Zealand’s greenhouse emissions.
 
The farmers wailed that they shouldn’t be singled out. If there was going to be a price paid for tackling this climate warming thingie that was obviously just a scam by all those “science” types then everyone should contribute, not just farmers.
 
In classic style, Labour backed down because they didn’t want to piss off people who were ideologically opposed to them anyway. They proposed a carbon tax. But the right opposed that too, calling for an emissions trading scheme – more market-orientated you see, and it let them paint Labour as greedy overtaxers.
 
The 2005 election left Labour without the numbers to get a carbon tax through, so they (eventually) came up with and passed an ETS. How did the right react? By opposing it of course. ACT is back to wanting a carbon tax, National wants something that wouldn’t do anything, and what’s Federated Farmers calling for? You guessed it: an emissions reduction research levy… a fart tax.
 
The fact is the right will always oppose any specific policy to tackle climate change, no matter how much the left tries to compromise and chase them, they’ll always find an excuse for backing out because at the end of the day they have their heads in the sand. They choose to ignore the climate change disaster that is looming because the solutions require collective action and restraint of capitalism. The right might say they would support a certain policy, but when it comes time to sign on, they’ll always have an excuse. Now, they say ‘we’ll support an ETS, if it’s weaker’ but they’ll back out of any serious measure.
 
They’ve been leading us on this merry dance for a decade. All the while greenhouse gas concentrations, and the world’s temperature, keep on rising. How much longer are we going to keep going around and around?
 
[PS. economists say the impact of a tax or cap and trade on a business is the same. Cap and trade has the advantage of the cap on emissions being set by policy and the price decided by the market, whereas in the tax the policy makers have to set the price hoping it will result in the right level of emissions, but a tax is simpler and doesn’t create a financial market with all the accompanying rorting]

64 comments on “Always an excuse to do nothing ”

  1. ghostwhowalks 1

    Fancy ‘serious Bill’ doing a photop with such a sign.

    But even more laughable is that Nick ( highest Court in the land) Smith is in charge of the detailed negotiations- before November??.
    Was they same Smith who couldnt get on top of his paperwork from a few months back ?
    Just let the nutty engineer ( and there are none so nutty as a nutty civil engineer) get himself all tangled up and then offer a few cosmetic changes that grab headlines and let National stew in their own juice

  2. Matthew Hooton 2

    In terms of people wanting to do nothing, the problem is that the ETS won’t do anything either.

    Even when Labour was first talking about its most comprehensive form of an ETS right at the beginning, its environmental advisors at MfE were saying it won’t reduce emissions by much if at all.

    See http://www.mfe.govt.nz/publications/climate/framework-emissions-trading-scheme-sep07/html/page9.html

    In particular:

    “7.2.1 Emissions from electricity
    Preliminary modelling work on the electricity sector (see Figure 7.1) indicates that:

    * in the short term, price-based measures may only lead to a moderate emission reductions relative to the base case, irrespective of the emissions price (due to lead times in bringing new renewable generation on line)

    * over the long term, emission price levels of around $15 to $25/tCO2-e would keep emissions from the electricity generation sector at about current levels through some moderating of demand growth and encouraging new investment in renewable generation (this represents an improvement over the business-as-usual base outlook, which projects steady growth in electricity sector emissions).

    “7.2.2 Emissions from transport
    Because fuel use is highly inelastic, emissions are likely to drop only by a small percentage. For every 10 per cent increase in petrol price, medium- to long-term demand is expected to fall by 3 per cent. The use of diesel for the heavy fleet is assumed not to respond to price because they will pass the increased costs through to customers.”

    The advice went on to say that other emissions, including agriculture, would not occur unless there was a drop off in production and economic activity.

    So the one thing everyone seems to agree on is that the ETS will do nothing to deliver the Government’s 10-20% by 2020 target, let alone Labour’s 40% by 2020 target (is that Labour’s target?).

    • snoozer 2.1

      So Matthew’s with the Greens and the Maori Party calling for a strong ETS and steadfastly opposed to National’s plan to weaken the existing one… yay matthew

      captcha (honestly!) wonderful

      • Matthew Hooton 2.1.1

        I’m not calling for anything. I’m just observing that MfE says that even if you had the strongest possible ETS – all sectors, all gases, no price cap, full international tradability – you won’t reduce emissions.

    • NickS 2.2

      @Matthew

      Of course, you haven’t bothered mentioning offsetting carbon emissions via forestry and land-use change. Which if I recall correctly, while seen as a stop-gap measure till new technologies and other methods become mainstream/available, has a potentially massive carbon sink capacity. That aside from uncertainties to do with soil carbon cycling and storage, isn’t that difficult to pull off, since the methods are already there. And from memory all this is actually part of the ETS…

      Which means you’re lying by omission by ignoring the off-sets, creating a false dilemma in which carbon emission reductions can only be done via reducing economic output.

      /clap clap clap

      Anti-spam: consider
      Something Matthew failed to do…

      • Matthew Hooton 2.2.1

        Not at all. You are right that the one sector in the ETS is the forestry industry and the ETS was meant to lead to new planting. But this hasn’t happened. There has been no new planting since the ETS came in and there doesn’t seem to be much prospect of any.

        The prospect of the ETS led to massive deforestation too, although that has now stopped, mainly because all land that could be deforested was deforested in 2007.

        • NickS 2.2.1.1

          Except the reason why forestry plantings have stopped expanding at present is because of National and ACT’s “review” of the ETS, which made further plantings uneconomic. Again, something you’ve conveniently left out.

          Also, source for the land clearances please.

          And also, there’s significant differences in the amount of carbon stored in different native forest/shrub communities vs plantation forests, along with the fate of the different carbon stores (wood vs leaves/litter vs soil) plus the rate of carbon storage. Which sometimes makes it economic sense to clear out patchy shrub and replace it with plantation, although from what I’ve learnt in lectures + literature readings this year, it’s sometimes more effective to let natural forests remain, or regenerate. Since disturbance can lead to quite a bit of carbon being lost from the soil + erosion.

        • lprent 2.2.1.2

          Because of the uncertainty that NACT engendered when they opposed the ETS and then were uncertain about what they would do. That increased the risk on what is a 20+ year investment.

          The arguing about if forestry counted as carbon credits didn’t help either early on. But that was fixed long ago.

          Besides, in case you hadn’t caught up on current events. The ETS is meant to start going into force in January next year. So at present there aren’t any of the carbon credits that would make forestry more attractive over the long-term than alternate investments. We also have the flat-earthers in Act wagging national around and increasing the uncertainty.

          Sounds to me that you’re like the Nat’s. Dithering around jumping from foot to foot trying to avoid making a hard decision that might affect one of your political backers. But that is the national trademark isn’t it. Only attack the weak because they’re an easy target. Avoid making hard decisions that upset your bank-balance.

          Kind of a useless bunch…

          • Matthew Hooton 2.2.1.2.1

            No, forestry came into the scheme on 1 January 2008. Some forest owners have begun sales of credits offshore – see http://www.carbon-financeonline.com/index.cfm?section=asiapacific&action=view&id=12291

            The previous government did put in place the mechanism for investors to plant trees and sell credits. The incentives you write about are all in place. It just hasn’t worked in terms of delivering the tree planting that was anticipated – and nothing like what was achieved in the 1990s.

            It probably would make it easier for forest owners to sell credits if other New Zealand sectors were in the ETS, but even that is debatable, because they are already able to sell them offshore if they want.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.3

      You seem to have missed the bit about capping the emissions. The reducing cap is what brings our emissions down not the cost of carbon credits. The trade just allows for the most efficient means to bring the cap down to be utilized.

    • jarbury 2.4

      Is fuel use really THAT inelastic to price? Last year we saw traffic volumes fall quite significantly when petrol went up – so I’m not sure whether that assumption is true.

      That said, 5c a litre won’t make much of a difference.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.4.1

        How much did fuel go up?
        How much did traffic volumes fall?

        The problem is that people still need to get to work and the only reliable way most of them have is their car.

  3. Nick 3

    All the while greenhouse gas concentrations, and the world’s temperature, keep on rising. How much longer are we going to keep going around and around?

    The world’s temperature is not rising.

    We could cull all our cows and never breed another one. We could also reduce our emissions by 300% and it wouldn’t affect the climate one iota.

  4. gomango 4

    economists say the impact of a tax or cap and trade on a business is the same.

    Perhaps theoretically (as you allude to) but in practice there is no way an international cap and trade system will deliver what is intended. See these papers for starters:

    Avi-Yonah, Reuven S. and Uhlmann, David M.,Combating Global Climate Change: Why a Carbon Tax is a Better Response to Global Warming than Cap and Trade(March 18, 2008). U of Michigan Public Law Working Paper No. 117

    Daskalakis, George and Markellos, Raphael N.,Are the European Carbon Markets Efficient?(October 20, 2008). Review of Futures Markets, Vol. 17, No. 2, pp. 103-128, 2008.

    From the first paper:

    The popularity of a cap and trade system may reflect the
    fact that cap and trade offers something for everyone. For
    environmentalists, cap and trade promises a declining cap on
    the carbon dioxide emissions that are the principal cause of
    global warming. For industry groups, cap and trade offers the
    possibility of a new market in carbon allowances and therefore
    the potential for significant income for companies who can
    inexpensively reduce their carbon dioxide emissions. For
    economists, cap and trade allows the market to take into
    account externalities as it determines the price of carbon. For
    politicians, cap and trade offers the opportunity to take action to
    combat global warming without implementation of a complex
    regulatory permitting scheme or a dreaded tax on fossil fuels

    and

    But an international environmental crisis is not the time to
    experiment with a largely untested regulatory system on a
    global scale. It is far from clear whether a cap and trade system
    will work on a national and international level. First, while the
    United States utilized a cap and trade system to reduce acid rain
    in the 1990s, we have never used cap and trade to address an
    emissions problem that affects the entire economy. Second, a
    cap and trade system promises fixed reductions in carbon
    dioxide emissions, but the trade-off is uncertainty about the
    price of those reductions. If the price of carbon rises too high,
    the carbon cap will need to be relaxed, thus removing the
    primary benefit of a cap and trade system. Third, a cap and
    trade system would be difficult to implement, monitor, and
    enforce. There would be complicated questions about how
    allowances should be distributed and challenges in determining
    the validity of allowances (especially in an international cap
    and trade system).

  5. George.com 5

    Labours handling of climate change legislation was far from perfect, arguably too slow, controversial and opposed at every turn by organised capital. The debate is open as to how Labour handled the issue. I think the introduction of mechanism to start to address CC was too little and late. However, it was a start. Set against what we have now however, the four headed monster, Labour was quick out of the blocks.

    A few years ago National was dead set against any meaures to address CC and much of the science itself. Now Nick Smith is stating that the science is all but settled. Thank you Nick, finally. What a pity however his party didn’t come to that realisation a few years back. Worse still is ACT wanting a carbon tax. Where the heck were they 6 years ago when the idea was first debated?

    On the subject of adressing CC I am not sure if history will judge the Labour govt that well. When the history booked are written I do hope the obstructive actions of Brash, National and ACT are clearly highlighted however. National, it ‘go time’, get on with it.

  6. outofbed 6

    Good animation showing temp increase
    for those who like visuals (20 sec long 2.,4mb)

    10-Year Mean Anomaly

    Begins with 1881-1890 mean meteorological year anomaly and ends with 1998-2007.

    [video src="http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/animations/a10_1881_1998_6fps.mp4" /]

    Sure looks like its getting hotter

  7. So the left’s idea to fight global warming is more taxes?

    • Quoth the Raven 7.1

      ACT is back to wanting a carbon tax, National wants something that wouldn’t do anything, and what’s Federated Farmers calling for? You guessed it: an emissions reduction research levy a fart tax.

      I’m guesing Act and Federated Farmers is left to Brett? Oh Brett what’s St. Obama doing?

    • lprent 7.2

      I think that is Act’s current idea to help avoid taking responsibility for having emissions.

      Most of the left and the greens would prefer that something was put into place before the whole thing
      1. starts costing too much when it does start (delays in reductions increase the price under Kyoto)
      2. starts reducing the emissions before the weather starts getting really bad in a few decades.

  8. Matthew Hooton 8

    Snoozer at 3.11 pm – wood prices were in fact very low. People were not harvesting for the money. The harvesting was caused by people wanting to avoid the deforestation tax components of the ETS. In other words, the one effect that so far can be attributed to the ETS is the first deforestation in New Zealand since 1945.

    • So Matthew what would you do to address climate change?

      And do nothing does not appear to be an option if the huge bulk of scientific study in the area is to be believed.

      • Matthew Hooton 8.1.1

        The best thing New Zealand can do, in my view, is worry less about our own emissions, which don’t count for much anyway, and look to see what we can do to contribute on a global scale. That would imply massive investment in areas where we are genuinely world leaders, in particular agricultural and horticultural science, and the sell or give the IP to other agrarian economies, particularly in the third world.

        • Zaphod Beeblebrox 8.1.1.1

          Do you really think that should be our Copenhagen position? Don’t you think we need to have some bargaining power when the important decisions are made at the conference? How do you feel our tourism industry will feel about our environmental credentials being tarnished by opting out?

          • Matthew Hooton 8.1.1.1.1

            The question was what New Zealand could do about climate change. You’ve raised what our position should be for the Copenhagen conference, which is an entirely different thing.

            I think we can have any position we like at Copenhagen. It makes no difference. The conference will end, like an APEC conference, with ringing declarations of intent and no substance. New Zealand will not be a player and the only people who will notice what position we take will be New Zealand journalists and NGOs at the conference.

            But seeing you asked, I think we would have more credibility showing up at Copenhagen saying we have just launched the world’s largest investment programme in agricultural and horticultural science and we will sell or give you the results, rather than saying we are implementing an ETS that won’t reduce emissions and we have a 10-20% target even though we’ve failed to reach any of our previous targets and have no plan to achieve it.

            • Zaphod Beeblebrox 8.1.1.1.1.1

              Maybe it will be a forgotten conference, maybe it won’t. If we opt out of negotiations now and don’t show some sincerity (as opposed to outright cynicism- like a lot of people), we will lose all ability to affect the debate.
              Like it or not, how they deal with this issue will be a defining issue of this government claiming NZ is too small to be important and hoping it goes away will not work.
              This is the easy stuff, the harder sacrifices will be to come.

        • r0b 8.1.1.2

          That would imply massive investment in areas where we are genuinely world leaders, in particular agricultural and horticultural science, and the sell or give the IP to other agrarian economies, particularly in the third world.

          Excellent ideas, and possibly the first sensible thing I’ve heard you say. Ever. Pity National worked against funding such research when they were in opposition.

          worry less about our own emissions, which don’t count for much anyway

          But you fall down there. We still have to do our bit. Everybody does.

  9. Daniel Silva 9

    “They’ve been leading us on this merry dance for a decade. All the while greenhouse gas concentrations, and the world’s temperature, keep on rising. ”

    What exactly was the rise in the ‘world’s temperature’ since 1998?

    [the strong el nino in 1998 caused that year to be exceptionally warm – it was what is known as an outlier. There will always be exceptional years that are extra hot or cold, they don’t disprove the trend anymore than one cold day in september means that there’s not going to be a spring this year, the record has now been equalled in 2007, the trend has continued to rise]

    • Armchair Critic 9.1

      Let me guess why you chose 1998. Hmm, could it be that it is one of a tiny handful of dates that support your half-arse argument? Yep, that’ll be it.

      • Daniel Silva 9.1.1

        “Let me guess why you chose 1998. Hmm, could it be that it is one of a tiny handful of dates that support your half-arse argument? Yep, that’ll be it.”

        Actually, no. The author claimed that the world temperature has been rising for a decade (that is, since 1998). I just wanted to know by how much. Predictably, I did not get a straight reply.

        • Armchair Critic 9.1.1.1

          Yeah, nice try, the post doesn’t say anything like that. The closest Marty gets to mentioning 1998 is in the last paragraph, which reads “They’ve been leading us on this merry dance for a decade.” If you can read “the world temperature has been rising for a decade (that is, since 1998)” into that, good for you.
          Like I said before, you know damn well what the answer to your question is and have selected the specific year because it supports your half-arsed argument.
          If you don’t believe in anthropogenic global warming, try selecting the average temperature for ten years at random out of the last 250 years, or so and see how they compare. Go on, shock me with your findings. Or just read the “Are you smarter than a 10th-year” post.

          • Daniel Silva 9.1.1.1.1

            The original post said: “They’ve been leading us on this merry dance for a decade. All the while greenhouse gas concentrations, and the world’s temperature, keep on rising.”

            This decade started in 1998. I asked by how much has the ‘world temperature’ risen in this decade, as claimed in the post. If you have a straight answer to that straight question, please let us have it.

            • Armchair Critic 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Flaw in your logic – the decade started in 1999. 1 January 1999 to be precise. It ended on 31 December 2008. Unless you want to be a bit more precise and go month by month back from August this year, or day by day from today, but I don’t think the data are available. And that doesn’t get you back to 1998 either. 1998 was eleven years ago, or you are a year behind the rest of us.
              What’s not straight about “just read the are you smarter than a 10th-year post”? There are links to it from this page and links to the data you asked for from there. I can’t follow those links for you, do it yourself. Having said that, if you can’t count to ten, I doubt you can read the data.
              But since you ask, the way I read it the rise from 1999 to 2008 was 0.08 degrees, the rise from 1999 to the highest value (2005) was 0.30 degrees and the rise from 1999 to the average of 1999 to 2008 was 0.15 degrees. Straight enough of an answer for you? Still got a problem with the wording of the post?
              Now, how about a straight answer to you for my straight question. Why are you stuck on 1998 as a reference year?

            • Daniel Silva 9.1.1.1.1.2

              0.08 degrees in only ten years! Quick, let’s all panic now, before it is too late.

              Does anyone know what a typical inter-decadal temperature change brought about by natural (read: pre-capitalist) variability woud be?

            • mickysavage 9.1.1.1.1.3

              Why do I despair that the future of the world that my kids grow up in is going to be decided in part by people including you with your stupid cromagnon beliefs.

            • Armchair Critic 9.1.1.1.1.4

              DS – Good on you for choosing the answer that suits you – at least you are consistent. If you really want to know about variability, have a look at some data. If you want to spout crap, keep going, you seem to have a talent for it.

    • Quoth the Raven 9.2

      Daniel Silva – FAIL. What does this say:

      Climatologists at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York City have found that 2007 tied with 1998 for Earth’s second warmest year in a century.

      and

      The eight warmest years in the GISS record have all occurred since 1998, and the 14 warmest years in the record have all occurred since 1990.

      • Sonny Blount 9.2.1

        So temperature trends have been basically flat for 10 years?

        • Armchair Critic 9.2.1.1

          If you consider that rising and basically flat mean the same thing then you are absolutely correct.

      • Sonny Blount 9.2.2

        Only because the records haven’t been kept for very long.

        Over the history of human civilisation the 14 warmest years have been spread out over thousands of years.

    • Draco T Bastard 9.4

      Clue: Trends in climate don’t happen in one year, they happen over decades

    • Daniel Silva 9.5

      So, what exactly was the rise in the ‘world’s temperature’ that you claimed for the last decade?

  10. Sonny Blount 10

    Some issues I have:

    How do CO2 emissions compare between the periods 1988-1995 and 1995-2005?

    How do temperature trends compare over the same periods?

    If the temperature rise from 1985-1995 was caused by CO2 emissions, why are considerably greater emissions no longer causing temperaure increases? Because there are other, more powerful factors involved.

    • Hey Sonny

      Do you second guess your doctor or do you accept expert advice?

      If you saw 100 doctors and 98 of them said you were ill would you take steps just in case you were ill?

      Do you really believe that something as complex as climate change can be dismissed by a couple of sentences and analysis of cherrypicked data?

      • Sonny Blount 10.1.1

        There are no anthropogenic climate change experts.

        If we take the nobel prize for physics winners from 1901-1950 which would be a reasonable representation of the best scientific minds of the time, are any of them experts in nanotechnology?

        They may have been aware of the idea or read/written about it in Sci-fi books but none of them were real experts.

        Same situation today, we’re at the sci-fi/philosophy stage of the anthropogenic climate change idea.

        • NickS 10.1.1.1

          There are no anthropogenic climate change experts.

          Lawl.

          Right, I guess that means James Hansen doesn’t exist then, nor any of the other main publishing researchers in climate change.

          Same situation today, we’re at the sci-fi/philosophy stage of the anthropogenic climate change idea.

          Excepting of course all the lovely evidence and empirically valid scientific theories that point towards climate change is happening, and we’re to blame. That’s nicely summarised in the IPCC reports, and further explained by climatologists doing outreach via news articles and blogs…

          Then again, some people prefer comforting delusions to reality.

          • Sonny Blount 10.1.1.1.1

            What track record of correctly predicting climate does James Hansen have?

            I do recall him being censured by NASA for mnisrepresenting their views though.

            I think you may be confusing the large amounts of research showing the effects of warming which is expected with natural climate variation.

            Observing the effects of warming does not equate with empirical evidence of anthropogenic climate change.

            Need I remind you of Michael Mann’s fraudulent hockey stick graph to show the fallibility of the IPCC reports.

            Or the authors that disagree with the ‘summary for policy makers’ for each chapter.

            Or the people such as Chris Landsea who have resigned the IPCC due to their misrepresentation?

            Claiming the word of the IPCC as gospel on climate change is like taking the Sensible Sentencing Trusts statements as the be all and end all of what the justice system should be doing.

            • mickysavage 10.1.1.1.1.1

              Sonny you are trying to wind us up.

              Hansen was disciplined because of activity by the Bush White House who have as much understanding of and respect for science as you do.

              Which planet are you talking about? For that matter in the immortal words of Barney Frank on which planet do you spend most of your time?

      • Sonny Blount 10.1.2

        “If you saw 100 doctors and 98 of them said you were ill would you take steps just in case you were ill?”

        If I saw 100 naturopaths(however well-meaning or experienced) and 98 of them told me I had bad chi, I wouldn’t believe them.

        “Do you really believe that something as complex as climate change can be dismissed by a couple of sentences and analysis of cherrypicked data?”

        Absolutely, because it has not been in any way demonstrated.
        Just because a false statement has been repeated 100 times does not make it more valid than the first time it was given.

        And the cherry picked data is from 1980-2000, all other periods in our last 70 years (since 1940) of heavy industrial output have trended down or flat.

        • mickysavage 10.1.2.1

          Prey tell, why have you decided that the vast majority of climate change scientists are naturopaths?

          Because if you do this as a reflex I cannot argue with you because you are making a conclusive judgment on the quality of the expert before we can even work out who to trust in interpreting the evidence.

          Can you point to a huge mass of intellectual capability that says that the world is OK and that we do not need to worry about CO2 levels?

          If not shut the f*** up and let the caring part of the human race work out what to do with the most difficult challenge it has ever faced.

          • Sonny Blount 10.1.2.1.1

            “Because if you do this as a reflex I cannot argue with you because you are making a conclusive judgment on the quality of the expert before we can even work out who to trust in interpreting the evidence.”

            There are no experts on the future.
            If a scientist spends their career drilling ice cores and analyzing the composition of the ancient atmosphere, they become an expert on ancient atmosphere, which is not anthropogenic climate change.
            The same for scientists that study storms, the sea-level, disease, or animal life, they are experts in their fields, which is not the same as anthropogenic climate catastrophe.
            What research would a scientist conduct that would provide the knowledge to make them an expert on anthropogenic climate catastrophe?

            “Can you point to a huge mass of intellectual capability that says that the world is OK and that we do not need to worry about CO2 levels?”

            The burden of proof does not rest with those who expect the norm. It lies with those with those who suggest radical change.

            • mickysavage 10.1.2.1.1.1

              With the greatest of respect that is BS.

              Scientists have with increasing ability been able to predict the response of the natural world and the future to current

              We can use chicken entrails and crystal balls to predict the future instead but I prefer using people who have developed expertise in understanding why things are happening.

              There are experts on the future. There are millions of them.

    • Maynard J 10.2

      “How do CO2 emissions compare between the periods 1988-1995 and 1995-2005?”

      You are asking the wrong question. Say I lock you in a small, sealed room and start putting in tear gas. Every ten seconds I will put in a little bit more. Afterwards, would you argue I put in very little at the start, and far greater concentrations at the end, because your eyes started to burn near the end, or would you think it was the accumulation of gas over time?

      (sorry for the sadistic example, please do not read into that at all!)

      It is the overall level, CO2 in PPM, that you need to look at, not yearly emissions.

      “Because there are other, more powerful factors involved.”

      Sure are – take a look at feedback loops if you want to truly worry.

      • Sonny Blount 10.2.1

        I have taken a look at feedback loops. They are called ice ages and optimum warm periods.

      • Sonny Blount 10.2.2

        OK,

        What was the CO2 in ppm in 1985-1995 and in 1995-2005 because that is what I was actually refering to.

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    3 days ago
  • Government continues crackdown on gangs and organised crime
    Operation Tauwhiro extended until March 2022 Since it was launched in February, Operation Tauwhiro has resulted in:   987 firearms seized $4.99 million in cash seized 865 people charged with a firearms-related offence Gangs and organised crime groups will continue to be relentlessly targeted with the extension of Police’s successful ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to Body Positive 'HIV Treatments Update Seminar 2021'
    E ngā mana E ngā reo E ngā iwi Tēnā koutou katoa Ka huri ki ngā mana whenua o te rohe nei. Tēnā koutou. He mihi hoki ki a tatou kua tau mai nei I raro I te kaupapa o te rā. Nō reira tēnā koutou katoa Acknowledgements It’s a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ economy’s strong momentum will support rebound from Delta outbreak; COVID fund replenished
    The economy showed strong momentum in the period leading up to the recent Delta COVID-19 outbreak, which bodes well for a solid economic rebound, Grant Robertson said. GDP rose 2.8 percent in the June quarter, following on from a 1.4 percent increase in the previous March quarter. This was a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Projects create benefits into the future
    Making a well-known lake swimmable and helping to halt the decline of the endangered hoiho/yellow-eyed penguins are among a suite of new projects being supported by the Government’s Jobs for Nature programme across the southern South Island, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. “It’s no secret that many of our most ...
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    4 days ago
  • Opening statement for Whāriki Indigenous Small Business Roundtable
      Kei ngā tōpito e wha o te āo e rere ana te mihi maioha ki a koutou nō tawhiti, nō tata mai e tāpiri ana ki tēnei taumata kōrero mo te ao hokohoko arā mā ngā pākihi mo ngā iwi taketake Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa – Pai Mārire.  ...
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    4 days ago
  • New members appointed to Kāpuia
    The Government is adding four additional members to Kāpuia, the Ministerial Advisory Group on the Government’s Response to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the terrorist attack on Christchurch mosques. “I’m looking forward to having Pamela MacNeill, Huia Bramley, Melani Anae and Katherine Dedo  join Kāpuia and contribute to this group’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Timeline confirmed for Emissions Reductions Plan
    Cabinet has agreed to begin consulting on the Emissions Reduction Plan in early October and require that the final plan be released by the end of May next year in line with the 2022 Budget, the Minister of Climate Change, James Shaw confirmed today. “Cabinet’s decision allows organisations and communities ...
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    5 days ago
  • Pay parity pathway for early learning teachers confirmed
    Pay parity conditions and higher funding rates for education and care services will come into force on 1 January, 2022, Minister of Education Chris Hipkins confirmed today. The Government signalled this work in Budget 2021. “From 1 January, 2022, centres opting into the scheme will receive government funding and be ...
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    5 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Nurses Organisation Conference 2021
    Kia Ora tatau katoa.   Ka tuku mihi ki nga nēhi, He pou Hauora o Aotearoa, E ora ai tatou.   Whakatau mai  I runga i te kaupapa o te ra Te NZNO conference.   Tena koutou tena koutou Tena tatou katoa   Good morning, and thank you inviting me ...
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    5 days ago
  • Government investment in farmer-led catchment groups sweeps past 150 mark
    171 catchment groups have now been invested in by the Government 31 catchment groups in the Lower North Island are receiving new support More than 5,000 farmers are focussed on restoring freshwater within a generation through involvement in catchment groups  Government investment in on-the-ground efforts by farmers to improve land ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Fight to protect kauri on track
    The Government is pitching in to help vital work to protect nationally significant kauri forests in Auckland, Minister of Conservation Kiri Allan says. “Ensuring the survival of these iconic trees for future generations means doing everything we can to prevent the potential spread of kauri dieback disease,” Kiri Allan said. ...
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    6 days ago
  • Joint statement of Mr Bernard Monk; Hon Andrew Little, Minister Responsible for Pike River Re-entry,...
    [Note: The Parties have agreed on terms to fully and finally settle the proceeding and will jointly issue the below statement.] At the heart of this litigation are the lives of the 29 men tragically lost at the Pike River mine on 19 November 2010 and to whom we pay ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • More financial support for businesses
    Today’s decision to keep Auckland in a higher COVID Alert Level triggers a third round of the Wage Subsidy Scheme which will open for applications at 9am this Friday. “The revenue test period for this payment will be the 14th to the 27th of September. A reminder that this is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Aotearoa New Zealand provides further humanitarian support for Afghanistan
    Aotearoa New Zealand is providing a further $3 million in humanitarian assistance in Afghanistan, Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced today.  “There is significant humanitarian need in Afghanistan, with the crisis disproportionately affecting women and girls,” said Nanaia Mahuta. The UN has estimated that 80% of the quarter of a million ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Innovative te reo prediction tool announced in Te Wiki o Te Reo Māori
    A new Māori language prediction tool will play a key role in tracking our te reo Māori revitalisation efforts, Minister for Māori Development Willie Jackson announced today. He Ara Poutama mō te reo Māori (He Ara Poutama) can forecast the number of conversational and fluent speakers of te reo Māori ...
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    7 days ago
  • Further Government support for people to access food and essential items
    The Government is responding to need for support in Auckland and has committed a further $10 million to help people access ongoing food and other essential items, Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni announced today. This latest tranche is targeted at the Auckland region, helping providers and organisations to distribute ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Half a million Pfizer vaccines from Denmark
    The Government has secured an extra half a million doses of Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines from Denmark that will start arriving in New Zealand within days, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced today. “This is the second and larger agreement the Government has entered into to purchase additional vaccines to meet the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Inland Revenue providing essential COVID support for businesses
    Inland Revenue is seeing increased demand for Resurgence Support Payments and other assistance schemes that it administers, but is processing applications quickly, Revenue Minister David Parker said today. David Parker said the Resurgence Support Payment, the Small Business Cashflow (loan) Scheme and the Wage Subsidy are available at the same ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand marks 20th anniversary of 9/11 attacks
    New Zealand is expressing unity with all victims, families and loved ones affected by the September 11 2001 terrorist attacks, and all terrorist attacks around the world since, including in New Zealand. “Saturday marks twenty years since the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the United States, which killed nearly 3,000 people ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Speech to SPREP Environment Ministers
    Talofa Honourable Ulu of Tokelau Faipule Kelihiano Kalolo Tēnā koutou katoa and warm Pacific greetings from Aotearoa to your excellencies, ladies and gentlemen. The new science released by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change on 8 August paints an alarming picture of the projected impacts of climate change on the ...
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    1 week ago
  • Additional Resurgence Support Payments to support business
    Businesses affected by higher Alert Levels will be able to apply for further Resurgence Support Payments (RSP). “The Government’s RSP was initially intended as a one-off payment to help businesses with their fixed costs, such as rent. Ministers have agreed to provide additional payments to recognise the effects of an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More Dawn Raids scholarships announced
    Details of the ‘Manaaki New Zealand Short Term Training Scholarships’, a goodwill gesture that follows the Government’s apology for the Dawn Raids of the 1970s, were released today by Pacific Peoples Minister Aupito William Sio. “These scholarships that are targeted to the Pacific will support the kaupapa of the Dawn Raids’ ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • One-way quarantine-free travel for RSE workers starting in October
      One-way quarantine-free travel for Recognised Seasonal Employer (RSE) workers from Samoa, Tonga and Vanuatu starts in October New requirement for RSE workers to have received their first vaccination pre-departure, undertake Day 0 and Day 5 tests, and complete a self-isolation period of seven days, pending a negative Day 5 ...
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    1 week ago
  • Govt boosts Pacific suicide prevention support
    Applications have opened for the Pacific Suicide Prevention Community Fund as the Government acts to boost support amid the COVID delta outbreak. “We know strong and connected families and communities are the most important protective factor against suicide and this $900,000 fund will help to support this work,” Health Minister ...
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    1 week ago
  • Govt parks the expiry of licenses, WoFs and regos
    As a result of the Delta outbreak, driver licences, Warrants of Fitness (WoFs), Certificates of Fitness (CoFs), vehicle licences (‘regos’) and licence endorsements that expired on or after 21 July 2021 will be valid until 30 November 2021, Transport Minister Michael Wood has announced today. “While this extension won’t officially ...
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    1 week ago
  • COVID-19 community fund to provide support for vulnerable women and girls
    Minister for Women Jan Tinetti today announced a $2 million community fund that will provide support for women and girls adversely affected by COVID-19. “We know that women, particularly those who are already vulnerable, are disproportionally affected by the kind of economic disruption caused by COVID-19,” Jan Tinetti said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Next phase of support for Fiji’s COVID-19 response announced
    A further NZ$12 million of support for Fiji’s COVID-19 response has been announced by Foreign Minister Hon Nanaia Mahuta today. The package builds on previous tranches of assistance Aotearoa New Zealand has provided to Fiji, totalling over NZ$50 million. “Fiji remains in a very challenging position in their response to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Robotic asparagus harvester aimed at addressing industry challenges
    The Government is backing a $5 million project to develop a commercial-scale autonomous robotic asparagus harvester, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor announced today. The Sustainable Food and Fibre Futures fund (SFF Futures) is contributing $2.6 million to the project. Project partner Robotics Plus Limited (RPL) will build on a prototype asparagus ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Additional Pfizer vaccines to arrive tomorrow
    More than a quarter of a million additional doses of the Pfizer vaccine are on their way from Spain to New Zealand, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced today. The additional doses will arrive in Auckland on Friday morning to help meet the current surge in demand for vaccination. “It’s been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Young people to have their voices heard in Youth Parliament 2022
    The dates and details for Youth Parliament 2022 have been announced today by Minister for Youth Priyanca Radhakrishnan, and the Speaker of the House of Representatives. Youth Parliament is an opportunity for 141 young people from across Aotearoa New Zealand to experience the political process and learn how government works. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Boosting support for tertiary students affected by COVID-19
    Students facing a hard time as a result of COVID-19 restrictions will continue to be supported,” Education Minister Chris Hipkins confirmed today. The Government is putting a further $20 million into the Hardship Fund for Learners, which will help around 15,000 students to stay connected to their studies and learning. ...
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    2 weeks ago
  • COVID-19: Immediate relief available for Māori and iwi organisations
    The Government has reprioritised up to $5 million to provide immediate relief to vulnerable whānau Māori and communities during the current COVID-19 outbreak Minister for Māori Development Willie Jackson announced today. The COVID-19 2021 Whānau Recovery Fund will support community-driven, local responses to gaps in access and provision of critical ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New beef genetics programme to deliver cows with smaller environmental hoof-print
    The Government is backing a genetics programme to lower the beef sector’s greenhouse gas emissions by delivering cows with a smaller environmental hoof-print, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor announced today. Informing New Zealand Beef is a seven-year partnership with Beef + Lamb New Zealand that is expected to result in more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Appointments to the New Zealand Qualifications Authority
    Education Minister Chris Hipkins today announced new appointments to the board of the New Zealand Qualifications Authority (NZQA). Former Associate Minister of Education, Hon Tracey Martin, has been appointed as the new Chair for NZQA, replacing the outgoing Acting and Deputy Chair Professor Neil Quigley after an 11-year tenure on ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Govt supports residential house building by allowing manufacture of building supplies
    The Government has agreed to allow some building product manufacturing to take place in Auckland during Covid lockdown to support continued residential construction activity across New Zealand. “There are supply chain issues that arise from Alert Level 4 as building products that are manufactured domestically are mostly manufactured in Auckland. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Government invests in scientific research to boost economy, address climate change and enhance wellb...
    Research, Science and Innovation Minister Hon Dr Megan Woods has today announced the recipients of this year’s Endeavour Fund to help tackle the big issues that New Zealanders care about, like boosting economic performance, climate change, transport infrastructure and wellbeing. In total, 69 new scientific research projects were awarded over ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago