And now from the real Labour Party…

Written By: - Date published: 9:54 pm, January 26th, 2013 - 143 comments
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It’s been a good few days. Ratana on Thursday and Friday, and Young Labour Summer School today and tomorrow. And then there is David Shearer’s speech to come on Sunday, at the end of the Summer School.

The Ratana Church gathers to celebrate the prophet’s birthday on the 25th of January. In recent years political parties have paid their respects on the day before. This year, David Shearer came on Thursday 24th with a delegation, including a group from Young Labour on their annual Clarion tour.

yl ratana

David Shearer stayed over to attend the main day service in the Temepara. Party President Moira Coatsworth was there too, as was I. This followed from last year’s invitation from David Shearer to Ratana’s Tumuaki, Haare Meihana, to visit Labour in Parliament, as TW Ratana had done. That visit has led to ongoing discussions between Labour and Ratana about how to recognise and consolidate the long-standing relationship in today’s world.

There were a number of other happenings at Ratana, all interesting. The Maori Party chose the weekend and the venue to ventilate their leadership issues, and the Mana Party climbed in to the debate. My impression was that this was not appreciated at Ratana, where TW Ratana’s message of kotahitanga and rangimarie is paramount.

John Key argued, when the National Party visited, that while Labour had a relationship with Ratana National delivered. He cited rebuilding of houses at the Paa and recent Treaty settlements. This too did not go down well. His hectoring tone made it sound as though Ratana Maori should have been grateful for their blankets. It was also not lost on anyone that while National may have finalised some Treaty settlements, it was Ratana’s Labour Members of Parliament Matiu Rata and Koro Wetere who had been Ministers when Labour passed the Treaty of Waitangi Act in 1975, and the Amendment Act in 1985 that allowed the redress of grievances back to 1840 that made these settlements possible.

I have been going to Ratana for the celebrations for many years now. The korero has always been highly political, going back to the days of the prophet himself, and Labour’s first visit by Harry Holland. There is no question in my mind that Maori are intensely interested in the next election, and that their view may well be shifting in favour of the old relationship with Labour, that has delivered far more to morehu whanau than any of the more recent arrangements. As my old colleague Mike Williams would say, watch this space.

Young Labour’s summer school was also a delight. I had no idea of what pleasant places lie behind Wainuiomata, and enjoyed listening to the bellbirds as well as the insights from the likes of Rod Oram, Brian Easton, Anna Hamer-Adams and others.

Summer School was started by Alastair Cameron and Jordan Carter in 2003, at which I presented the first session on an Introduction to Social Democracy. 120 Labour members registered for this year’s school, young and old, including Alastair and Jordan, although Young Labour continue to organise it. Their forward-looking influence was shown in this year’s theme – “Labour’s Unique Narrative for the Future.”

A usual, it was stimulating, refreshing and inspiring. Labour has a great group of young ones, all optimistic and all active. It was also great to be able to say “Happy New Year” to David Cunliffe who was there, as was Trevor Mallard.

The scene is set. 100,000 houses has National on the run. I’m really looking forward to David Shearer’s speech tomorrow.

143 comments on “And now from the real Labour Party…”

  1. geoff 1

    Astounding.

  2. handle 2

    In the holidays I visited the beach. There were some dogs. They liked me more than my sister. We had icecream. It was real.

    • QoT 2.1

      Today I went shopping and the weather was lovely. In 1985 I was a toddler and my speech was very advanced for my age. I also like icecream.

      • Tim 2.1.1

        In 1985, my son turned 5 and my brother was christened in the Ratana Church. We ll had a very luvly time. My brother told us a story too about the spirituality of Ratana, including trippy little visions he had. It was his epiphany – no need for any more lysergide or magic mushrooms.

        He also told us about the regular visits of politicians that used to turn up once a year and throw gifts and promises. He said they all bowed down and as the politicians left – thinking they had it all in the bag – the congregated all thought – what do these cnuts think we are…….cargo cultists maybe?. More fool them then.
        The weather was very nice.
        We marched and played trumpets.
        We frollicked in the summer sun.
        A good time was had by all

        • xtasy 2.1.1.1

          Yeah, and thus “vote Labor” (the painful labour)

        • bad12 2.1.1.2

          I also like ice-cream, lysergide is nice and trippy little visions can be scary too , i frolick in the Sun even now but cannot play a trumpet…

          • Anne 2.1.1.2.1

            I think GoodGoodyGumDrops is the best ice-cream. Its got lots of jellybeany thingies in it and they taste real nice. I once ate a whole carton and it made me feel sick.

            • CV - Real Labour 2.1.1.2.1.1

              Anne 🙂

              • Akldnut

                I’m old and grumpy or so my wife says and I still like ice cream (Hokey Pokey and Boysenberry Ripple) but preferred the old Hokey Pokey when they were chips and not balls.
                I too can’t play the trumpet but enjoy eating them.

    • The Al1en 3.1

      Chasing spooks on the standard, the real ghost busters more like.
      Just tell Shearer, if someone asks him where will the votes come from in 2014, the answer isn’t mmm, ah, um, is it brighter futures?

      Looking forward to post election when the headline will read – And now, something completely different.

      • ordinary_bloke 3.1.1

        Re. ‘spooks’ – I understand that a number of embassies follow The Standard but doubt that they would own up to it in case their budget is cut, but .. it is a public forum.

        It is also something of a compliment to lprent ..

  3. hush minx 4

    I had a bit of a grumble about some people I know but I didn’t let it get me down. Not worth talking to them really, they’re not like me. I’d rather focus on the positive.

  4. lightly 5

    What was “Labour’s unique narrative for the future”? And when will you start telling it?

    Why hasn’t Kiwibuild moved the polls an inch? Is it because it’s unaffordable for the working class and the young?

    Also, what’s the game with the aggressive title? You know most of the young labour members there were are Standard readers and commenters.

    • handle 5.1

      “What was “Labour’s unique narrative for the future”? And when will you start telling it?”

      When the fossils are dislodged in favour of the young.

  5. RedLogix 6

    Let’s put it like this Mike.

    You guys can have your way. I’m not interesting in squabbling over this for months. But if David Shearer does not win the next election I’d expect mass resignations from the Labour Party of EVERYBODY who supported him. Including you.

    Consequences.

    • The Al1en 6.1

      If that had happened after the 2011 beating in the polls Labour wouldn’t be in the bizarre situation of actively and very publicly trying to squash dissent from it’s hard core voter base in order to win 5% of nationals vote.

      • lightly 6.1.1

        with the exception of the chief of staff, all the senior people around Goff are still in place around Shearer. Chief press sec, ‘strategic advisor’ (Pagani), campaign strategist (now also deputy leader), policy director, head of research, ‘brains trust’ of Mallard, King, Robertson, and Goff.

        After the disaster of 2011, Shearer should have cleared the decks of the people who made the decisions who caused that disaster – the ones that decided to try to hide Goff. The ones that thought dropping all the policy during the campaign (including raising the retirement age) was a good idea. The ones who didn’t offer that ‘narrative’ Mike speaks of. They got a good slogan – ‘own our future’ but had nothing to back it up with apart from not selling assets. Instead, those failures are being allowed to fail again and only a handful of junior people got the sack.

        • handle 6.1.1.1

          “They got a good slogan”

          From the marketing agency they hired who made that great campaign opening film maybe?

        • xtasy 6.1.1.2

          Is King not going for the next Wellington Mayor job, as I heard or read somewhere???

          • Benghazi 6.1.1.2.1

            I’ve heard King back away from that potential role.

            This is likely to be because there is too much uncertainty about the role with the Lord Mayor concept in play and not in a strong position to go head to head with Fran for that role. Wellington Mayor also doesn’t pay as well as an opposition MP and King doesn’t qualify for the gold plated Parliamentary super.

            • Fortran 6.1.1.2.1.1

              Understand that Annette, may, by agreement not stand, and not to upset the current Greens incumbent, Celia Wade-Brown, who is doing a good job.
              It would split the left wing vote and let the right in.

              • alwyn

                It doesn’t matter if you “split” the left-wing vote.
                The mayoralty vote in Wellington is done on a preferential system, which is how Wade-Brown won. Prendergast led through most of the counting and it was only as all the other candidates were eliminated that W-B got through in a last gasp win.
                You might be right if the Mayor’s election was in a FPP system but it isn’t.
                On the other hand, as a Wellingtonian, I would have to say that you are woefully wrong when you say that W-B is doing a “good job”.

        • xtasy 6.1.1.3

          lightly: Shearer can’t “clear the decks”, because the ones he would have to clear are the very ones that got him where he is!!!

    • Colonial Viper 6.2

      For the sake of my sanity, I’m also adopting this position. Kudos to your foresight Mike, and also the rest of caucus backing Shearer to the hilt, if Labour brings home the bacon for the Left in 2014. I’ll personally buy caucus a case of bubbly.

      Fail, and all of you get buried by history and don’t frakin come back. The rest of us will pick up the pieces after 3 Tory terms.

      • the sprout 6.2.1

        My prediction for 2014: Labour achieves record low vote, Greens highest ever.

        Yours,
        Real Labour

        • xtasy 6.2.1.1

          If Shearer is still there in 2014, I will dance naked in Vulcan Lane, CBD, Auckland after his election win

    • The Fan Club 6.3

      Erm what? (a) no dice guys, unless you’re willing to resign en masse in the event of a win, and (b) it’s fucking bullshit to demand that a guy who’s worked for the party and the movement for as long as I or anyone else can remember resign because you’re pissed off your boy lost.

      Lose the contempt of assuming that the party has to follow your orders., it’s really really unattractive.

      • The Fan Club 6.3.1

        Wait hang on holy fuck you aren’t even a member are you? I mean sweet fuck I actually find the idea of a sanctimonious Green member talking smack about long standing Labour members like this hilariously offensive.

        • Colonial Viper 6.3.1.1

          Nah mate, asking people to back themselves is what its come to. This is now a world of consequences.

          it’s fucking bullshit to demand that a guy who’s worked for the party and the movement for as long as I or anyone else can remember resign because you’re pissed off your boy lost.

          I think RL stated quite clearly that he’s willing to accept that Mike and the other Shearer supporters might finally be proven right.

          • The Fan Club 6.3.1.1.1

            Consequences? Look, mate (!), you do us all a favour and roll Curran and then we can talk about consequences. Until then, I think I’m going to write you off as an internet blowhard.

            • fenderviper 6.3.1.1.1.1

              You may be expecting the wrong person to “roll Curran”.

              A real leader (her boss) would be the one to reprimand her for her Nact style privacy breech. Any fan club blowhard fool without blinkers would realise this.

      • blue leopard 6.3.2

        psst [Who is going to break it to The Fan Club that Labour have just lost 2 elections in a row?

        I don’t have the heart to and its clear the Fan Club isn’t aware that this has occurred, is the source of peoples’ distress, and the same approaches will not bring a different result; appears to be in denial….inferring weird causes about “your boy” losing, being the cause of these comments…deep denial

        How does one lift the veil of serious denial from these…people…, so they stop dreaming and start acting e f f e c t i v e l y?] Anyone?

      • rosy 6.3.3

        “Lose the contempt of assuming that the party has to follow your orders., it’s really really unattractive.”

        You might want to follow your own advice re party members, methinks.

    • David H 6.4

      But you won’t get them RedLogix. They are too attached to the public teat, to have to go out into the nasty real world and have to do something tangible for their wages. Unlike the sit on arse, and rake it in on the teat.

  6. DJ 8

    “It’s been a good few days” . Fuck me you set very low standards ………..

  7. Peter 9

    Hang on Mike. Am I correct in reading in your title that some of us here are not the “real Labour Party”?

    • The Al1en 9.1

      Real Labour party, meet realist Labour voters.

    • QoT 9.2

      Oh yes, according to Mike a good number of us are part of the Outside Left. It’s like the Twilight Zone only with more singing of the Internationale.

    • Ed 9.3

      I thought it was well known that as well as “real Labour Party” people, some who post in here are Green, Mana, Maori Party and even National supporters, as well as the confused, uncertain and bewildered . . .Some of those are represented in this thread – where do you fit, Peter?

      • Tom 9.3.1

        That’s what I like about this site .. regardless of provenance, it attempts to set *The Standard*

        Cough, cough ..

    • the sprout 9.4

      Well I guess we’re not Real Labour like Douglas, Prebble and the current ruling cadre of neoliberal party hijackers – we just happen to be the weirdo trouble makers with, like, leftwing values

  8. Pete 10

    Bloody hell, Mike. Shearer’s speech better be something special. No more of this keeping your powder dry until the campaign. We need a stream of genuine policy building up to a cogent manifesto over this year. The housing was a good start, but we need follow through, like a commitment to reverse National’s employment law. Otherwise quit pissing on our legs and telling us that it’s raining.

    • Pete 10.1

      And if you’re wondering if I am a genuine Labour Party member, here’s my 2012 membership card I’m undecided whether to sign up for 2013.

      Edit: although it says much that I feel it has come to this.

  9. Alanz 11

    Hi everyone

    From a long-standing Loyal Labour member who has current NZLP membership, and who has always supported and continues to support the incumbent, I have been wanting to refrain from commenting all evening but I cannot bite my tongue and just bear with it any longer.

    For me, this post by Mike Smith, with the title he has chosen, illustrates that things as they stand presently have not improved since 2008 but have gotten worse and indeed gone backwards for the Labour caucus vis a vis the membership. At this point in time, Labour should be steadily strengthening but current circumstances feel like there is still a way to fall before hitting rock bottom. The disconnect, which I felt after speaking with dejected Labour MPs in December 2008 and early 2009s, has not been bridged and seems even wider than ever.

    I feel increasingly despondent that the sense conveyed is that of a shrinking number of Labour MPs barricading themselves from people that they should recognise are its champions, supporters and friends. When the incumbent became leader, I felt that a caretaker had been put in place. And I have been willing either to wait for another candidate, or other candidates, to emerge or to give the incumbent the support to grow into the job quickly for a real challenge against National. Why is it that I am finding it more difficult to shake of the sense that, as far as the Parliamentary wing is concerned, the party seems to be in the hands of undertakers?

    • xtasy 11.1

      THANK YOU, all you say proves my case: We NEED a NEW LEFT party!

      • muzza 11.1.1

        Actually no, what is needed is for people to completely disregard the primitive thoughts that central government is needed at all.

        People are getting on, (just) despite its efforts, and while the institutions the masses have been programmed into believing they need to survive, are killing/trapping ever greater numbers, why do people still look to arcane entities to turn it around.

        Find it in yourself, with your family and friends, don’t expect that you can get any traction inside the current game, the game masters have it stiched up, and by seeking to continue to play along, the results will continue to trend!

        Time for natural thinking (No I don;t mean the Greens)

        • locus 11.1.1.1

          🙄

        • PlanetOrphan 11.1.1.2

          muzza at the reigns of Anarchy ….
          not like that M8! , more irregularity and confusion please M8!
          Pointy hat on and all ;-D

        • fatty 11.1.1.3

          well said Muzza,

          The problem is that Labour is a top-down party that takes power away from its base – see Mike’s title for this post, its very demeaning.
          We should resist this top down power hold and strive to create parties that give more power to their base, fortunately these already exist in Mana and the Greens.
          Rather than a new left party, the left needs to vote against Labour. By voting for our true left parties that already exist, and then spend time working within them, our political energy will be used effectively. Any energy put into Labour at the moment does nothing but strengthen the grip of Mallard, King, Goff & Robertson.
          As a left winger, your time will be better spent with a local grassroots movements, or ground up political parties.
          Just don’t depoliticise with too much cynicism…

  10. Saarbo 12

    I haven’t been a Labour member for very long, so I dont know Mike Smith apart from the posts on this site. I would have thought that David Shearer could have found someone to advise him who wasn’t such a condescending wanker.

    Having attended my 1st Labour Party Conference in November, one of the things that I did notice was the lack of Maori (in fact, I made this comment on TS just after the conference), Labour has a lot more work to attract the Maori vote back, as its not going to happen by merely attending the Ratana Church gathering each year.

    • xtasy 12.1

      But that is how ignorant and arrogant Shearer is: He thinks by going to Ratana, and criticising the Maori Party, all young and old Maori will come flying, to sign up and vote for Labour. Imbecilic that thinking, but I am not surprised.

  11. Blue 13

    Reading these posts is like walking into an alternate universe where puppies skip amongst daffodils in the sunshine and butterflies land on Shearer’s shoulders wherever he walks.

    Meanwhile, back in the real world, some guy with no deep links to either Labour or Ratana went to a marae and started posturing like a fool.

    Did he even know the significance of Ratana or did someone have to explain it to him?

    • xtasy 13.1

      As I have “diagnosed” Shearer, he is a mere “opportunist”, and that is why he went to Ratana!

  12. Salad 14

    Young Labour are a bunch of bores. If that’s your real Labour Party, you can keep them. Me, I’m heading to the Greens, now they know how to run a political party.

  13. Jim in Tokyo 15

    “at which I presented the first session on an Introduction to Social Democracy”

    Ever considered reprising the contents of that speech for us ‘nutters’ who think Labour 2013 is still lost down a third-way cul-de-sac?

  14. xtasy 16

    I notice ONE thing right away, seeing Shearer in that photo up the top:

    He has HIS HANDS IN HIS PANT’S POCKETS!!!?

    Now a “HANDS ON” polly does to me look a bit different.

    Going around with hands in your pockets may be ok at a flea market or whatever else, but for a “leader”, say rather “wannabe leader” it is a death certificate.

    I only read arrogance, indifference and laziness out of it. Maybe it was just a shot at the wrong moment, but also I have seen to many captures of Shearer with his hands upon his hips. That is to me another signal, I have seen too much of, it is clear body language, a bit of a show of “power” and “arrogance”.

    Surely, I know body language, and what I see is not anymore that much mumbling and stumbling, but this hands in pocket and on the hips kind of attitude. It is a sign of LAZINESS!

    Let me tell you guys in all discretion: That is NOT how a hands on and smart, acting leader looks like!!!

  15. xtasy 17

    Mike – your link to Robertson under “summer school” is quite revealing. I see lots of partly balded, grey haired and other folk, who do not really look much like “Young Labour” or “young” as such. Are you sure you linked the right caption there?

    Well, I am not the least disappointed, as I will never vote your party ever again, I had it!

    So much BS in one thread is beyond of being bearable. You need a wake up call, and get out of your master’s office, where you are on too high a salary and over protected from the real world out here.

    Sorry, you lost me completely with this post!

    • karol 17.1

      xtasy: I see lots of partly balded, grey haired and other folk, who do not really look much like “Young Labour” or “young” as such. Are you sure you linked the right caption there?

      That’s how it looks, xtasy. Or maybe there’s a lot of young Labour (white) guys who are going bald at a young age – happens. And there seems to be more guys than women… or is it that the guys are on one side of the room, and the women mainly on the other, and the camera mostly took in the guy’s side?

  16. Pascal's bookie 18

    Red sed: You guys can have your way. I’m not interesting in squabbling over this for months. But if David Shearer does not win the next election I’d expect mass resignations from the Labour Party of EVERYBODY who supported him. Including you.

    Word.

  17. Pascal's bookie 19

    Fucking listen Mike.

    The response doesn’t have to be a capitulation, bur you have to show that you are least fucking hearing what people are saying.

    • The Fan Club 19.1

      Why? Like, for reals, why the hell should Mike take seriously the grandiose ravings of a pissed off Green voter? RedLogix is a guy on the internet who is seriously insisting that large parts of a political party he isn’t even a member of quit because they don’t just do the thing he wants them to do.

      Pascal, the big problem is that you guys are unbelievably isolated within the party, those of you that are within in. My read at this point is that probably of the party activists, a good third now thinks the Standard is a den of Tea Party-esque crazy (see Scott Yorke’s increasingly bemused postings.). Amongst Labour Youth it’s way worse. I think there’s pretty much unanimous agreement that the Standard’s a write-off there.

      That’s not the number for Shearer (at this point much higher, I’d be guessing if it went to a vote 55-60%?). That’s a large swathe of the party thinking y’all here are just not in touch with reality.

      It’s why Mike can be at a large gathering of party faithful and say stuff like this and not get any push back in person. If anything, I reckon he’d be having difficulty paying for his drinks at the moment.

      • The Fan Club 19.1.1

        (Look at Sanctuary’s post in the Greens thread. He’s no Shearer-ite, but he can see what’s happening.)

      • Colonial Weka 19.1.2

        Maybe that’s true (hard to tell really), but it doesn’t make the criticism of Shearer, the ABCs, or Labour’s current neoliberal focus wrong.

      • RedLogix 19.1.3

        No the point you keep missing TFC is that Labour has now lost two elections in a row, and the polls have you firmly on track to loose a third. The left does not have the media on it’s side. Simply doing nothing and expecting the electoral cycle to deliver you into government every 2-3 elections is a losers strategy.

        People like you have insisted that Shearer is the man. Fine … have it your way, it’s your choice and your Party. And when Labour get another 31% in the next election Shearer will do the expected thing and fall on his sword. Or will the wider Party man up and take responsibility for the choices it has made? Especially those in the inner circle who had all the power.

        And yes I may well be a pissed off Green voter; I have every right to be because for at least the foreseeable future the Greens need a vibrant winning Labour Party to be in coalition with. Alternatively I’m increasingly of a mind to think maybe we should take the hard road, accept that Labour is dying on it’s feet and hope we can bury Labour within three to four election cycles.

        And just so as it is clear, I’ve been strongly pan-left all my life. I’ve strongly gone into bat for Labour in the past, I’ve donated substantially and I still hugely respect their legacy. But right now the Greens look increasingly like the future…. and I’m in.

      • Olwyn 19.1.4

        @The Fan Club: “I’d be guessing if it went to a vote 55-60%?). That’s a large swathe of the party thinking y’all here are just not in touch with reality.”

        That is supposing that your guess is right, and also that the 55%-60% think as you claim they do. We do not know exactly where the 31% of the general population who are presently supporting Labour stand, and we do not know either how a members’ vote would go since such a vote has not happened. We all tend to think that “everyone else thinks as we do” because we tend to hang out with people who think as we do.

        Here is a link to the list of the NZ Labour Party’s social-democratic principles. http://www.labour.org.nz/about-us

        Do you think that members are foolish or mistaken in trying to hold MP’s to those principles?

      • millsy 19.1.5

        Is it just me, or are you a bit of a right winger who thinks Labour should be National-lite. Suggest you just go and join National. That’s what you want really.

      • MrSmith 19.1.6

        Fan Club it’s great to see someone sticking up for Shearer and the Labour party, I mean it.

        Unfortunately you and Mike along with Matthew Hootten and a couple of other right wingers seem to be the only ones supporting Labour and Shearer around here.

        Stop attacking the messengers, instead how about pointing out why we are wrong, and why we should get behind or at least stop criticizing a party that got absolutely screwed in the last election and appears to have learnt nothing from it.

  18. xtasy 20

    Mike Smith just release one other LEAD BALLOON! All for the favour of dear ol David, the shorn one, of Labour, I believe, of sorts, but I cannot link the pieces together with a history of sorts.

  19. Elizabeth Bourchier 21

    I had a stone in one if my shoes.
    After reading this I now have a stone in both shoes.
    I feel very uncomfortable.
    I going to take off my shoes and sort it out.

  20. the sprout 22

    Here’s Shearer’s latest cutting edge media foray, all about his dog called ‘Tino Rangitiratanga’, who apparently is

    “a firm favourite of his master….

    “He’s a lovely little dog. He’s generally well-behaved and he loves swimming.””

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10861647

    • chris73 22.1

      Thats brilliant, as a National supporter I have to say that while I think Labour will probably win the next election David Shearer is Nationals best bet for winning a third term

    • just saying 22.2

      Not as an affirmation of Maori sovereignty though. He is keen to point out that Tino is a play on the word ‘tiny’, and the pet came into the family on Waitangi day.

      I suppose there is a kind of black positive in this. Shearer is refining his dog whistle.

      Now all he needs is a cat called ‘left’ who is a bloody nuisance and hangs around, and hangs around though even though no-one sitting at the table wants her. She happened to be living in the house when the Shearer’s bought it.

      And a pampered inbred pedigree called ‘Trickles’ who pees all over lesser beings. Shearer could quip: “we like to think we own Trickles, but cats like her don’t have owners, they have a staff”.

      • Colonial Weka 22.2.1

        lolz.

        Can’t see the connection between the word ‘tino’ and the word ‘tiny’ myself. Other than if you are writing them down.

        Here’s betting that the Shearer household pronounce their dog’s name ‘tee – no’

    • marty mars 22.3

      I’d normally go off about the symbolism and insult behind that dogs name but I just called the rat I caught in the rat trap ‘shearer’ so I suppose I’m no better.

    • QoT 22.4

      *headdesk*

      Next up: we meet John Bank’s dog Das Kapital, so-named because Banks’ kid said “he’s all covered in marks!” when they got him.

  21. chris73 23

    You know that all Labour has to do to win the next election is not say any stupid things (so the mps should just say nothing), not say any outright lies (again the mps should not say anything), publicly support Shearer (funnily enough the mps should…well you get the idea), display a committed team working towards the goal (again with the mps) and Shearer should stick to press releases…

    Not that hard really and it would have won the last election as well…

  22. Macro 24

    Mike this is the sort of thing your party should be saying

    http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/greens-take-steps-build-movement-oppose-government

    but we hear it not.

  23. lprent 25

    I’ve attended quite a few Summer Schools over the years. They have frequently been informative and useful to me and the campaigns at a local level. However little seems to happen afterwards at any other level. I’d have to say that they have become increasingly less useful as it went from my grey balding head being the rare exception, to being the norm.

    But this weekend at Lyn’s request I expended a few hours at the NGO The P3 Foundation talking things to think on about whilst blogging and their multiauthor blog. It is nice to see young people active and engaged.

  24. CV - Real Labour 26

    Thanks for the link Macro. An innovative idea from the Greens – to engage those who have been sitting on the sidelines to become active in the interests of NZ, without having to commit to the membership and identity of a specific political party.

    I can think of a few groups the Greens are targetting here, and some of them are people who might otherwise be considered natural Labour voters.

  25. IrishBill 27

    No we’re the real Labour party.

    No we are.

    No we are.

    No we are.

    This is starting to get absurd.

    • bad12 27.1

      I think ‘it’ got absurd way back down the track, if the February caucus vote confirms David Shearer as Labour Party leader, (a forgone conclusion to some), then the options for all those who cannot stomach that would seem to be either swallow the pride and support Labour in spite of the particular Head(s) that occupy the seat(s) at the top table,

      Or,

      Resign their Labour Party memberships and join another party like the Green Party,

      Note: this is not an official Green Party recruiting message…

    • Bill 27.2

      Nah. It’s not starting to get absurd It’s well and truly off down the rabbit hole and hitting the ‘Drink Me’ bottles by the crate full.

  26. CV - Real Labour 28

    Real Labour Policies

    More than ever I think we need to progress the idea that Irish Bill proposed to develop and test out Real Labour policy. A Labour Party which delivers democracy to its members and delivers strong Left wing policy will be, be definition, the Real Labour Party.

    2013 – the policy year

    By the way, have the new plasticky Labour Party membership cards have removed all mention of the values of the Labour Party? Including a reference to the principles of democratic socialism?

    If so, this is a bad change, and certainly not Real Labour.

  27. muzza 29

    this year’s theme – “Labour’s Unique Narrative for the Future.”

    Perhaps they/you it, could start with telling the truth Mike, how would that be for , unique narrative!

    No, can’t/won’t/don’t know how to, argh, thought not!

  28. billbrowne 30

    Cool – another hit and run condescending posting from Mike — and that’s just the title.

    Hint – this is not winning friends or influencing people – hope you’ve kept your day job.

  29. Elizabeth Bourchier 31

    Moira Coatsworth and Tim Barnett are the President and General Secretary selected/endorsed by the membership and the NZ Council.
    Mike Williams and Mike Smith are not. They are the one who were in charge when we lost.
    So Please ENLIGHTEN Moi!
    Why has Shearer/Robertson hired these throw-backs to attack and demotivate the party activists?

    Help, I’m totally confused by the actions of these men.

    • The Fan Club 31.1

      They were also in charge when we won three elections in a row. I don’t think Williams is on the books at the moment, but Smith’s got a lot to offer the party and we’d be mad not to make use of him.

      • Elizabeth Bourchier 31.1.1

        Mike Smith is doing damage to the party by his approach and tone.
        He seem to think he can do a MSM style OpEd and job done.
        Mike Smith does not understand “interaction”. It is not in his DNA. He has a patrician approach and a condescending tone.
        As someone who see the TS as a valuable tool for driving the democratising of the NZ Labour Party, Mike Smith is A GOD-SEND.
        His hiring by Robertson/ Shearer highlights why we need the members to have a say in the Leadership in February.
        Keep up the good work Mike Smith and gang. You are invaluable.

      • locus 31.1.2

        sadly Mike did his reputation a disservice with his ‘Tell the Truth’ post on this site. So hard to build a good rep and so easy to do irrepairable damage with a few words said in haste…

        time to put a few of the old warhorses out to graze, and to bring in a new team with youth, vision and optimism to help reshape the Labour Party, don’t you think?

      • CV - Real Labour 31.1.3

        They were also in charge when we won three elections in a row.

        H1 and H2 were definitely “in charge” over that time. Both are long gone.

  30. Mike throws in a taunt then scurry’s away,that’s ok though because it proves and
    confirms what we already know and that is that our dear leader and his comrades
    have no intention of having any real conversations with the wider online voting base.
    The Greens look more and more attractive

  31. PlanetOrphan 33

    Great post Mike Smith, keep up the great work.

    The art of politics is the art of hearing the peoples’ voice and giving them a box to Whinge from.

    A++ Mike 🙂

    (P.S. A burning Shearer doll would keep them happy I’m sure M8!)
    (P.P.S Could do a set, interchangable heads so no one misses out , not for internal use warnings of course)

    • the Al1en 33.1

      “not for internal use warnings”

      Not sure if you mean what I think you mean, or caucus being warned off a challenge.

      “Great post Mike Smith, keep up the great work.”

      I looked for the :sarcasm: icon

      “A++ Mike”

      Then realised it’s as missing as your understanding of the current situation.

      “The art of politics is the art of hearing the peoples’ voice listening and acting on them”

      Just a little edit to help you along.

      “(P.S. A burning Shearer doll would keep them happy I’m sure M8!)”

      But not as happy as a leader who leads and has a chance of winning, I’d bet.

      • PlanetOrphan 33.1.1

        “Then realised it’s as missing as your understanding of the current situation.”
        Cor blymey u r smart M8! What’d I miss exaclty ?

        Sounds like you’d be the perfect person to give me the one liner the “Burning shearer” doll can schpeel as it burns ?

      • PlanetOrphan 33.1.2

        We could re invent democracy , answering all those bloody one liners that got use here …

        Least # of sales = Elected Government MP.

        We could create a “Shrine” doll as well, so …

        Shrine sales – Burning doll sales = total score in the election.

        Everyones happy, the punters get to voice the frustration in the privacy of there own homes, we get a “Market” elected government, thus giving the people their hate vote, which is why they whinge so much in the first place M8!.

        The “Civilised” democracy in action M8!

  32. Foreign Waka 34

    Please look at the body language of the people in the picture. I think that no further comment is needed.

    • Bill 34.1

      You mean folded arms, crossed legs, scratched heads and hands in pockets isn’t a sign of ‘connectedness’? Nah. Surely not!

      • Foreign Waka 34.1.1

        Exactly! 😉 Look at the little corridor between the people too.

      • Foreign Waka 34.1.2

        One side scratches their head and the other is defensive. Lice?

        • the sprout 34.1.2.1

          the lice are Shearer’s pets too, they’re called ‘Poor People’

        • The Fan Club 34.1.2.2

          Yeah referring to young members who’re getting out there and volunteering in their communities as having lice is super fucking classy.

          • Foreign Waka 34.1.2.2.1

            Firstly, the word play is tongue in cheek. So its not a personal statement. Secondly, scratching the head signifies without words a state of confusion. And this is the point made here. How long is Mr Shearer in office and when did he (ever) give some clear leadership statements as to where the party stands? Exactly, back to scratching the head I suppose….

  33. KJT 35

    The ever more desperate spin from Labour caucus central shows they know how badly they have fucked up.

    This whole thing started, because, as a leader Shearer is FUCKING USELESS.

    Nothing to do with who the contenders are. But failing to get a competent subordinate, on side, whatever their ambitions, is yet another sign of poor leadership.

    New Zealand desperately needs an alternative to National, and dog eat dog neo-liberal meanness, in Labour and the Greens.
    Not yet another woolly “centrist” party.

    Don’t you get it? Hundreds of thousands do not vote any more because they have LOST HOPE that any political party is going to do their best for most New Zealanders.

    The fact is people are not going to turn out to vote for Shearer, and a bunch of, past their use by date, wallies, who make even National look competent.

    In fact the whole bunch, on both sides, are the best argument ever for BCIR and real democracy.

    • locus 35.1

      BCIR? I take it that you mean Binding Citizens Initiated Referendum’ and not Barnett Continent Intestinal Reservoir surgery…

  34. BM 36

    Do members consider It it better for the long term health of the Labour party that National wins at the next election, that way Shearer can be rolled and replaced with Cunliffe the members champion.
    Isn’t the real battle here , the fight against neoliberalism, with Shearer led government it’s a continuation of the same style of thinking.

    Out of interest, how many here would actively undermine a Shearer lead labour party so it little chance of winning at the next election?

    • QoT 36.1

      Define “actively undermine”. Because apparently pointing out simple facts like “Shearer cannot answer media questions clearly and decisively” = “undermining The Cause” to some people.

    • RedLogix 36.2

      When Helen Clark reached an accord with Michael Cullen it was a partnership of equals. They went on to achieve a great deal.

      The problem for team Shearer is that they knew every time Cunliffe opened his mouth he’d show up Shearer’s shortcomings. I guess they simply couldn’t tolerate that and this meant an accord was never going to be offered.

      Is Cunliffe going to be around next election? Only he knows if he can put up with the crap being dished out to him in the meantime.

      Do I want to undermine Labour? No. But my money and time is back with the Greens (I’ve actively supported both parties over the years) and I’m not really interested anything Shearer and his Party have to say anymore. They’re boring.

      • Rhinoviper 36.2.1

        When Helen Clark reached an accord with Michael Cullen it was a partnership of equals. They went on to achieve a great deal.

        Yes, that. And it is the failure by ABC to accommodate their opposition that is the essence of their folly. It shows them to be vain, immature, cowardly, petty, insecure… and as Talleyrand once said, “It was worse than a crime, it was a mistake.”

    • Rhinoviper 36.3

      Out of interest, how many here would actively undermine a Shearer lead labour party so it little chance of winning at the next election?

      How many would undermine a Roger Douglas and Richard Prebble dominated Labour Party?

      OK, that’s provocative, but at least the example is real and I do actually ask this out of interest and it is not a challenge or a deconstruction. Instead, I ask where is the line in people’s minds and how close are the current parliamentary elite to it?

      Of course it might be more complex or at least different to that – is the line between the Labour Party and neoliberalism, between Mikes Smith and Williams and Matthew Hooton (though honestly I believe that both Mikes are actually sincere in their intentions at heart, as opposed to Hooton, who is nothing but a puerile money-grubbing parasite thoroughly devoid of principle) or between the front bench’s performance and irrelevance?

      And why the emphasis on “members” in drawing the lines since the “No true Scotsman” argument is circling like a shark? Mightn’t it be on voters?

      • geoff 36.3.1

        So the implicit assumption is that writing criticism of the Labour leadership on TS is considered undermining the Labour Party?

      • CV - Real Labour 36.3.2

        How many would undermine a Roger Douglas and Richard Prebble dominated Labour Party?

        Huge numbers of members walked and never came back. MPs broke away and formed New Labour, which in 1993 captured a full 18% of the vote. The Labour Party of today is but a meek shadow of the force it was in the 70’s and 80’s.

  35. Mike Smith is posting because we’re getting under their skin. The King/Mallard cabal should be worried. They are not going to quieten us down by insisting on their world view.

    I want a vote. I want to believe there are 13 MPs who care about our voice. If there is near unanimous confidence in the Shearer Leadership, then I’m out of Labour. We need a fulsome process, we need a vote to unite.

    Come on MPs – be brave.

    • hush minx 37.1

      +1, and I sure hope there are some mps reading this!

    • Elizabeth Bourchier Real Labour 37.2

      Yes, we gave to get our MPs to simply vote “no confidence”. Then the President asks for MPs to put their hat in the ring.
      Shearer can put his hat in the ring along with whomever e.g. Ardern Robertson etc and then we have a tour of a dozen centres and the members and affiliates and Caucus get to vote.
      There is no need to “challenge” Shearer at the Caucus.
      Yes we can have a productive party wide process .
      Yes we can.
      Yes we can.

    • Bill 37.3

      I’m picking the fact that a post claiming to represent ‘the real’ Labour Party comes after reports that Cunliffe isn’t putting his hand up means there remains a perception of an alternative ‘not real’ Labour Party.

      Which is odd given that if, as claimed, the confidence vote is a shoo-in there can be no-one and nothing posing a threat to the current configuration of the Labour Party. And so, obviously, no need to make absurd, provocative and somewhat Leninesque game plays.

  36. fenderviper 38

    Is that a typo?

    Do you mean “reel” as in wind up?

  37. Bettig 39

    I bookmarked The Standard because I wanted an alternative to the John Armstrongs, Whaleoil, and Matthew Hootons. I wanted news and opinion from the left, argument, discussion, fairness. For some time I’ve been astonished at the vitriol towards Shearer and the Labour Party. The response to this post from Mike Smith is the last straw. He put forward a view. By all means disagree, but this is totally ridiculous.
    I’m rearranging my bookmarks and looking elsewhere for views from the left. Chuck whatever you like at this post, I won’t be watching. Bye bye.

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    The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has published their report on whether the SIS and GCSB had any complicity in American torture. And its damning. The pull quote is this:The Inquiry found both agencies, but to a much greater degree, the NZSIS, received many intelligence reports obtained from detainees who, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Who Shall We Turn To When God, And Uncle Sam, Cease To Defend New Zealand?
    Bewhiskered Cassandra? Professor Hugh White’s chilling suggestion, advanced to select collections of academic, military and diplomatic Kiwi experts over the course of the past week, is that the assumptions upon which Australia and New Zealand have built their foreign affairs and defence policies for practically their entire histories – are ...
    1 week ago
  • The Politics of Opposition
    For most of the time I was a British MP, my party was out of government – these were the Thatcher years, when it was hard for anyone else to get a look-in. As a front-bencher and shadow minister, I became familiar with the strategies required in a parliamentary democracy ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • More expert comments on the Canadian fluoride-IQ paper
    The Green et al (2019) fluoride/IQ is certainly controversial – as would be expected from its subject (see If at first you don’t succeed . . . statistical manipulation might help and Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear). Anti-fluoride campaigners have been actively promoting it ...
    1 week ago
  • The return to guerrilla war in Colombia
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On August 29th a video in which veteran FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) commander Iván Márquez announced that they had taken up arms again was released. There was no delay in the reaction to it, from longtime Liberal Party figure and former president Uribe, for ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Air New Zealand identifies this enormous plot of unused land as possible second airport site
    Air New Zealand couldn’t believe its luck that this seemingly ideal piece of real estate had so far gone entirely unnoticed. Air New Zealand’s search for a site to build a second Auckland Airport may have made a breakthrough this afternoon, after employees scanning Google satellite imagery spotted a huge, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Redline on the Labour Party
    No-one on the anti-capitalist left in this country today puts forward a case that Labour is on the side of the working class.  There are certainly people who call themselves ‘socialist’ who do, but they are essentially liberals with vested interests in Labourism – often for career reasons. Nevertheless, there ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s failure
    When National was in government and fucking over the poor for the benefit of the rich, foodbanks were a growth industry. And now Labour is in charge, nothing has changed: A huge demand for emergency food parcels means the Auckland City Mission is struggling to prepare for the impending arrival ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Ardern attempts to vaccinate Clarke Gayford live on television to prove that it’s safe
    Gayford, pictured here on The Project, before things got wildly out of control. A bold public relations move by the Government to encourage parents to vaccinate their children has gone horribly wrong. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern appeared on tonight’s episode of Three’s The Project, where the plan was for her ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Has Mr. Whippy gone too far by parking on our front lawns?
    Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Cleaning up the water
    Today the government released its Action Plan for Healthy Waterways, aimed at cleaning up our lakes and rivers. Its actually quite good. There will be protection for wetlands, better standards for swimming spots, a requirement for continuous improvement, and better standards for wastewater and stormwater. But most importantly, there's a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Fronting up
    Today I appeared before the Environment Committee to give an oral submission on the Zero Carbon Bill. Over 1,500 people have asked to appear in person, so they've divided into subcommittees and are off touring the country, giving people a five minute slot each. The other submitters were a mixed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear
    Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Democracy – I Don’t Think So
    So, those who “know best” have again done their worst. While constantly claiming to be the guardians of democracy and the constitution, and respecters of the 2016 referendum result, diehard Remainers (who have never brought themselves to believe that their advice could have been rejected) have striven might and main ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Government says it will now build just one really nice home
    Following publication of this article, the Ministry has requested it to be noted that this supplied image is not necessarily representative of what the final house will look like, and it “probably won’t be that nice.” As part of today’s long-anticipated reset of the Government’s flagship KiwiBuild policy, Housing Minister ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Imperialism and your cup of coffee
    Over the next week or two we will be running three synopses of parts of the opening chapter of John Smith’s Imperialism in the 21st Century (New York, Monthly Review Press, 2016).  The synopsis and commentary below is written by Phil Duncan. Marx began Capital not with a sweeping historical ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Still juking the stats
    The State Services Commission and Ombudsman have released another batch of OIA statistics, covering the last six months. Request volumes are up, and the core public service is generally handling them within the legal timeframe, though this may be because they've learned to extend rather than just ignore things. And ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Hard News: Time for a New Deal: 25 years on
    In 1994, I was editing an ambitious street mag called Planet, from a fabled office at at 309 Karangahape Road. The thirteenth issue of the magazine was published in the winter of that year and its cover embodied a particularly ambitious goal: the end of cannabis prohibition.I wanted to do ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Not impressed
    KiwiBuild was one of the Ardern government's core policies. The government would end the housing crisis and make housing affordable again by building 100,000 new homes. Of course, it didn't work out like that: targets weren't met, the houses they did build were in the wrong place, and the whole ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Solar beats coal
    As the climate crisis escalates, it is now obvious that we need to radically decarbonise our economy. The good news is that its looking easy and profitable for the energy sector. Wind is already cheaper than fossil fuels, and now solar is too:The levellised cost of solar PV has fallen ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • A Step Too Far.
    A Crown Asset? For reasons relating to its own political convenience, the Crown pretends to believe that “No one owns the water.” To say otherwise would re-vivify the promises contained in the Treaty of Waitangi – most particularly those pertaining to the power of the chiefs and their proprietary rights ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Where Money Comes From
    Most people would say, no doubt, that they have a pretty good idea of what money is. They live with the reality of money every day. It is what is needed to buy the necessities of life and to maintain a decent standard of living. You get money, they would ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    2 weeks ago
  • Banned by the Green Party leadership: Jill Abigail on women’s rights and trans rights
    The article below was an opinion piece that appeared in the Spring 2019 issue of Te Awa (the NZ Green Party’s newsletter) and on the Greens website.  In keeping with their policy of hostility to women defending women’s right to female-only spaces, Green bureaucrats have since removed the opinion piece.  ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • The fallacy of the proximity argument.
    Longer term readers may remember my complaining that, as a political scientist, it is burdensome to have non-political scientists wanting to engage me about politics. No layperson would think to approach an astrophysicist and lecture him/her on the finer details of quarks and black holes, but everybody with an opinion ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    2 weeks ago
  • Where We Stood: Chris Trotter Replies To Stevan Eldred-Grigg.
    Joining The Fight: Stevan Eldred-Grigg's argument for New Zealand staying out of the Second World War fails not only on the hard-headed grounds of preserving the country’s strategic and economic interests; and not just on the soft-hearted grounds of duty and loyalty to the nation that had given New Zealand ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Universities back the climate strike
    On September 27, School Strike 4 Climate will be striking for a future to pressure the government for meaningful climate action. This time, they've asked adults to join them. And now, Lincoln University and Victoria University of Wellington have signed on:Victoria University of Wellington has joined Lincoln University in endorsing ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

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