Announcement delayed

70 comments on “Announcement delayed ”

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1. weka 1

   11 October 2017 at 6:40 am

   Personally, I don’t mind if they take another week. I’d rather the people who are going to be in charge of the country for the next three years took adequate time to get it right and start on a good footing, rather than rushing to some arbitrary time frame.
   • cleangreen 1.1

     11 October 2017 at 8:00 am

     100% behind WEKA on this;

     Because more time taken now even if it was a month will reap a better outcome for the left rather than rushing all those policies to quickly will cost mistakes and loss of some important policies we just cannot afford to leave out of the agreement.

     Transport freight, particularly (RAIL) which has strangely recently been shelved it seems by the media, is now needed to be brought forward and properly discused now, in light of the recent loss of 14 lives in the last four days is a very serious issue as the roads are now gridlocked with trucks and are becomming to dangerous to drive on now, as the roads are literally falling apart.

     So these kind of issues need to be discused completely with policies and that will take time so yes we all need to let the three parties to relax and go together to hatch a solid partnership to take over Government.
   • Xanthe 1.2

     11 October 2017 at 9:14 am

     I agree, take the time and do it right.
     Personally i think this period of talk and consideration of what is most important to nz citizens is a really positive thing and we will,have better more focused and coordinated govt from it. Of course the mefia (sic) will paint a different picture,
2. Thinkerr 2

   11 October 2017 at 6:54 am

   Well, if he was meaning his discussions with National, the other party would need to be ACT. And Seymour has said enough to make that unlikely.

   So, I see this as a positive sign, albeit always aware that Winston sometimes surprises by pulling a rubber chicken out of the hat, instead of the fluffy bunny that everyone hoped for.
   • red-blooded 2.1

     11 October 2017 at 7:08 am

     Don’t read tooo much into it – “other parties” could just refer to National or Labour. They’ll both have internal processes to ratify any deal.
3. outofbed 3

   11 October 2017 at 7:31 am

   Greens need to put any agreements to members
   • r0b 3.1

     11 October 2017 at 7:41 am

     Interesting.
   • rightofleftcentre 3.2

     11 October 2017 at 11:12 am

     Yes this is the ideal issue to put before a committee of hundreds and thousands…
     • red-blooded 3.2.1

       11 October 2017 at 11:16 am

       “Hundreds and thousands”? There’s a consultation team that’s already been picked to make the decision on behalf of Green members. It’s still quite big (I think Julie-Anne Genter said on Morning Report that is was about 120), but that’s hardly thousands!
       • tuppence shrewsbury 3.2.1.1

         11 October 2017 at 11:38 am

         A hand picked politburo who explicitly represent the choices of all green members? sounds democratic in the extreme
         • Paul Campbell 3.2.1.1.1

           11 October 2017 at 11:49 am

           I believe it’s a group of representatives elected by the rank and file, a parliament if you will.

           You’re thinking of the national party central committee who don’t go put coalition deals to their members at all
         • Macro 3.2.1.1.2

           11 October 2017 at 11:54 am

           Nope. The decision goes to regions and delegates are elected to represent the wishes of each region.
           But those who do not understand consensus decision making will never understand
           Consensus decision making is a creative and dynamic way of reaching agreement between all members of a group. Instead of simply voting for an item and having the majority of the group getting their way, a group using consensus is committed to finding solutions that everyone actively supports, or at least can live with.
           • Incognito 3.2.1.1.2.1

             11 October 2017 at 5:12 pm

             Crikey! And not one focus group in sight 😉
4. Ad 4

   11 October 2017 at 7:35 am

   Announcement also delayed in Spain:

   https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/10/catalan-government-suspends-declaration-of-independence
5. mickysavage 5

   11 October 2017 at 7:46 am

   Great graphic …
   • r0b 5.1

     11 October 2017 at 8:07 am

     Since putting it up I’m having trouble with frequent visions of WP in FnF drag. Help Me…
     • Andre 5.1.1

       11 October 2017 at 8:10 am

       That’s a mental image I did not need. Thank you very fukn much.
       • r0b 5.1.1.1

         11 October 2017 at 8:37 am

         Share the love I say, share the love…
6. Robert Guyton 6

   11 October 2017 at 7:53 am

   Wheels within wheels within wheels; false trails, reversed sign-posts, smoke of the wrong colour, bells rung backwards, yellow ribbons tied around the old Larch tree, winds that suck, not blow, Punxsutawney Winston pulling his head back in as the season’s not yet upon us…who could ever have guessed this would happen???
   Down to the quick we are!
7. Peter 7

   11 October 2017 at 7:53 am

   Lets hope that it is in fact the new PM making the announcements about the new coalition government, not the leader of the 7% party.
8. The decrypter 8

   11 October 2017 at 8:19 am

   If this practice of wink wink, nod nod is seen as just as a quirky Winston trait you just wait till he is at the top table with the big boys -and girl? There he will be unbearable.
   • red-blooded 8.1

     11 October 2017 at 8:54 am

     He wasn’t unbearable the last time he held a ministerial position. He did the job just fine and worked with the wider team. So long as there’s some room for NZF to keep their own identity, things should be OK. He’s done this before, after all. The first time he tried to tie everything down too much in a formal coalition; the next time he gave himself and his party a bit more leeway by becoming a minister outside cabinet. Hopefully, he’s learned from these experiences.
   • cleangreen 8.2

     11 October 2017 at 9:59 am

     ” this practice of wink wink, nod nod is seen as just as a quirky Winston trait”

     Hardly !!!; – as the whole National party have been dishing this crap out to us, as brain wash fodder for nine years decrupter, – get it right!!!!!!
9. Skinny 9

   11 October 2017 at 8:32 am

   “I’ve got other arrangements and people to first of all organise themselves and ourselves as well.”

   Well that is pretty clear Peters is giving Labour’s ‘Left arm’ the Greens time to put the deal to their membership to vote on, hopefully in agreement.

   I have gotten to know Peters well enough campaigning over a number of years in recent times. He has already made his mind up, well actually National have made that very easy. Also people can say what they like about Jones, however make no mistake he hasn’t entered politics again to prop up a régime he can not ethically support. My only real concern is Labour and are they prepared to accept and adopt the real policy platform Peters wants implemented??
   • weka 9.1

     11 October 2017 at 8:38 am

     What policy of NZF’s would Labour have a problem with?
     • Skinny 9.1.1

       11 October 2017 at 9:07 am

       Well you would be better off directing that question to Savage or some other party puppets that lurk in here.
       Off the top of my head Labour and Greens Rail thinking is on a different track to NZ First. L/G and Goff are planning on light rail to the Auckland airport. Peters will want to bin that idea in favour of of the more robust option of heavy rail.

       Also I don’t think Labour were expecting to move into the electrification of Auckland to Tauranga and probably Northland too. This will all mean funding ourselves not loaning from overseas, and forget about foreign PPP’s that will be a no go area for Peters. He is all about make New Zealand great again so it is Kiwi build.
       • weka 9.1.1.1

         11 October 2017 at 9:15 am

         Are you saying that Labour should adopt NZF policy as is?

         Afaik micky doesn’t speak for the Labour Party, so a reminder to take some care in how you characterise authors here.
         • Skinny 9.1.1.1.1

           11 October 2017 at 9:32 am

           It is a negotiation Labour will be crunching what they can live with and what they can’t. If they can’t then they are sitting over in opposition which will suit Ardern being a bit ‘lite weighted’.

           Oh for goodness sake don’t wave a stick at me. Savage would be more in tune with policy than me, I am no policy wonk. Either you want the insight on man of the moment or not? I doubt you have many that can text him and he calls back within the hour bothering to comment in here lol. There is a couple of funny guys like WK and ED that amuse me enough to make the odd comment.
           • weka 9.1.1.1.1.1

             11 October 2017 at 2:48 pm

             “It is a negotiation Labour will be crunching what they can live with and what they can’t.”

             No shit. I think that’s a given. You said,

             “My only real concern is Labour and are they prepared to accept and adopt the real policy platform Peters wants implemented??”

             I still don’t know what you mean by that.
             • Skinny …

               11 October 2017 at 9:19 pm

               Well OK let me spell it out since you are having problems working it out yourself.

               Putting an end to the ‘ failed neo liberal’ path that the establishment parties Labour & National have traversed since 1984.
               • weka …

                 11 October 2017 at 9:46 pm

                 Lol, ok, yes I didn’t pick that from your original comment. We’ll see. Peters is a centrist. If he was really intent on ending neoliberalism he’d be happier to work with parties left of Labour. So while I think he does want to see an end to parts of the neoliberal project, there are limits on how far he will go with that. And let’s not forget he’s been a key part of the neoliberal establishment for many years.

                 What Labour will do is going to be interesting. Best bet I can see is to push them left in whatever way we can. I’m sure NZF will help with that, and I think they will hinder it in ways too.
                 • Skinny …

                   11 October 2017 at 10:17 pm

                   Great we are on the same page finally. I admit I do speak in riddles at times. It is a bit tricky framing details.
                   The biggest problem Peters has is combating the influence of China. Both National & Labour are heavily committed politically, any push back will be swiftly met with economic repercussions. The only way to weave a way out of this mess is for Peters to take the trade portfolio, he knows this so that should be taken as a non negotiable position.
       • WILD KATIPO 9.1.1.2

         11 October 2017 at 9:36 am

         … ” This will all mean funding ourselves not loaning from overseas, and forget about foreign PPP’s that will be a no go area for Peters ” …

         Excellent ! … the less emphasis on foreign PPP’s the better!

         We did it before ourselves and the place prospered , – and we can do it again.
       • Carolyn_nth 9.1.1.3

         11 October 2017 at 10:18 pm

         Labour want more rapid rail to Northland, Tauranga and Hamilton, and work on plans to progressivley electrify Kiwirail’s network.

         And as I recall, the Greens pretty much were planning that before Labour announced their version. But maybe with less emphasis on Northland.
         • Skinny 9.1.1.3.1

           11 October 2017 at 10:38 pm

           Oh Carol please no need to spread ‘fake news’ neither Labour or the Greens mentioned Northland in their ‘golden triangle’ puff pieces. Keep it factual rather than making it up.
     • SpaceMonkey 9.1.2

       11 October 2017 at 4:20 pm

       Probably any of the economic ones.
   • WILD KATIPO 9.2

     11 October 2017 at 8:40 am

     🙂

     That crossed my mind last night,… sort of a wee extension for everybody to get into position as it were , Skinny ,… just a hunch.
   • cleangreen 9.3

     11 October 2017 at 10:06 am

     100% Skinny.

     Labour and NZF are closely aligned but the Greens must acept to work with them both for our common good of “changing government.”

     I have attended four meetingsd of NZF where Winston has publically spoken.

     And at all his message has sent the message that he needs to change the government to change the course of destruction and wholesale selling of our country.

     Winston is now on a mission it is clear.
     • Macro 9.3.1

       11 October 2017 at 1:58 pm

       I think you would find (if you were in fact to do a little investigation on these matters instead of spouting off the top of your head) that there are many NZF policies that are more closely aligned with the Greens than with Labour.
       The major sticking points for both Labour and the Greens are the Repeal of the Section 59 of the Crimes Act amendment (the so called “anti-smacking”), and the abolition of the Maori Seats.
       Labour are ambivalent wrt TPPA whereas the Greens and NZF are totally opposed.
       Labour are ambivalent wrt Charter schools, whereas the Greens and NZF are totally opposed.
       There are a number of of other policy points upon which NZF and the Greens are in firm agreement.
       Even on Climate change as Lprent detailed in a post here a few days ago the NZF policy holds many points upon which the Greens could find agreement.
       You point to the need to rebuild NZ Rail – a major plank of NZF policy. The Greens are in total agreement with that, and have argued continuously for shifting our transport back to rail for years.
       • cleangreen 9.3.1.1

         11 October 2017 at 3:08 pm

         Macro, I should know about the greens I was one 15yrs ago!!!

         Yes some NZF policies are closer to greens current polices, but as I said before, “the Greens must accept to work with them both for our common good of “changing government.”

         It is now in the Greens hands if they are prepared to give a little to join with NZF and Labour to remove this toxic government or we will blame the Greens as we then enter TPPA and are all stuffed.
         • Macro 9.3.1.1.1

           11 October 2017 at 4:38 pm

           If you were truly a Green member – and not just a Green voter – then you would understand the concept of consensus decision making. Which is not authoritarian in any way shape or form. The Greens are far more adept at working towards a common solution, than either the Labour Party or NZF. If Winston is to take the attitude of “my way and no one else’s” – then any “coalition” formed can hardly be expected to last more than 6 months, before the other parties have had enough.
           So No! It is not just in the Green’s hands to accept any terms unconditionally, and any sensible person would understand that.
         • weka 9.3.1.1.2

           11 October 2017 at 9:48 pm

           I’m also puzzled by what you mean. The Greens have been consistently talking all year about the willingness to work with Labour and if necessary NZF, as well as communicating they fully understand the need to compromise on policy. In what way do you see them not working for the common good? It’s built into their DNA.
   • veutoviper 9.4

     11 October 2017 at 10:42 am

     In terms of NZF, Peters has said that the final decision rests with the NZF Board etc so NZF also need time to go through their own hoops in accordance with the NZF Constitution.

     However, there is an interesting conundrum with this as who this bunch of unelected (by the voters of NZ) officials are is rather unclear, despite the fact that it seems they will be making the final decision of the composition of our next government. In other words, the composition of Parliament has been decided by the voters; but the composition of the government will supposedly be decided by the NZF Board.

     Guyon Espiner raised this on Twitter and the fact that these people are not all identified on the NZF website.

     Concurrently, the NBR have also been seeking this information as per this article yesterday (also published on Scoop)

     https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/nz-first-board-membership-closely-guarded-ahead-coalition-consultations-b-208620

     Actually it is not long so here it is in full as it is self explanatory:

     NZ First board membership closely guarded ahead of coalition consultations

     By Pattrick Smellie

     Oct. 10 (BusinessDesk) – New Zealand First party president Brent Catchpole has reluctantly agreed to make public the membership of the party’s board of directors, who leader Winston Peters has said will be consulted before any government formation proposal is settled.

     Unlike the National and Labour parties, NZ First’s website gives no details on the membership of its non-parliamentary governance structures although the Electoral Commission carries the party’s constitution, which opens with a commitment to “open and accountable government” and “consensus”.

     The constitution details the composition of a 12-member board that includes the party leader, Winston Peters and his deputy, Ron Mark, as well as the president (Catchpole), vice-presidents for the North and South Islands, a party secretary (Anne Martin, listed on the commission’s website), a treasurer, an ex officio director-general, and six elected representatives.

     However, BusinessDesk’s search for the identities of other NZ First board members hit a few roadblocks.

     Peters’ press secretary not unreasonably declined to respond as it was a party political matter and referred the question to party secretary Anne Martin, who passed on the party email address for Catchpole, a former NZ First MP and current Papakura community board chair.

     Two emails to that address went unanswered, but Catchpole’s contact details showed up on the Auckland Council community boards website.

     Contacted by that route, he was not enthusiastic about releasing the names of the governing members of the political party holding the key to whether or not the National or Labour Party will lead the next government, with a deadline of Thursday imposed by Peters for a decision.

     “That’s not information many members of the board would want passed out,” said Catchpole. For some, it was “personal” that they were members of the NZ First board although their membership was “not a secret” and their identities would become clear once they had been consulted and a government formed.

     “You’ll no doubt see them all when that happens,” said Catchpole, whose main concern appeared to be a media attempt to contact the board ahead of the confidential coalition talks being concluded.

     There had once been a list of the board on the party’s website but it had been removed, he said.

     Perhaps sensing a mismatch between the public interest in who will help the NZ First leadership decide which way to jump and not releasing their names, Catchpole undertook to check his party email overnight and “follow up your request”.

     Asked whether that meant the list would be supplied, Catchpole said: “I can send that to you. Yes.”

     So we wait with bated breath to find out the names of the missing links in the NZF Board composition.
     • Skinny 9.4.1

       11 October 2017 at 11:44 am

       All good in theory, however being a practical man Peters will assemble the decision making board. He will outline the offerings from the 2 parties, the puppets will all marvel at the splendid array of offerings Peters has screwed out of National & Labour/Greens.

       Winston’s handful of MP’s will all outline the various scripts they have been given. In the end it is 6 of 1 and a half dozen of the other. The general consensus will be Winston we will leave the final choice up to you. With that his trusted lawyer will present 2 sets of papers for them all to sign.

       And just like the rest of the Nation we see and hear Peters final decision at the biggest press conference held here in modern times.
       • veutoviper 9.4.1.1

         11 October 2017 at 12:38 pm

         LOL! Probably!

         But it is a bit on the nose not to have info in the public domain on the make-up of the Board and other officials who (supposedly) will make the decision.

         As an ex public servant of many years in Wellingon, I worked closely with those in the Parliamentary precinct, including a number of secondments there. Had many dealings on and off over the years with Winston – frustrating as hell at times, but also usually enjoyable, with lots of laughs as well. And as a woman, I never ever found him misogynistic; in fact, quite the opposite in ensuring I got a voice at meetings etc. One of those people I was happy to work alongside, but would never work under.
         • Skinny 9.4.1.1.1

           11 October 2017 at 9:27 pm

           Yes well you more than most know the score. And quite rightly a totally different situation working alongside, opposed to having the puppet master pulling the strings. 🙂
10. WILD KATIPO 10

    11 October 2017 at 8:33 am

    Meh .

    We have decided to provide you with some soothing music instead until normal transmission resumes during this interlude. Please enjoy.

    Strangers in The Night – Frank Sinatra – YouTube
    
    • Skinny 10.1

      11 October 2017 at 8:42 am

      Umm I would have thought ‘My Way’ would be more fitting and the ‘Boots’ song by Frank and Nancy as a pipe opener 🙂
      • WILD KATIPO 10.1.1

        11 October 2017 at 8:49 am

        Hehehe…. ‘ strangers in the night , lovers at first sight ‘ ?,… sort of coalitionry ?
11. Cinny 11

    11 October 2017 at 8:47 am

    The good news is they are obviously thinking it through and making sure any loose ends are tied up, that’s not a bad thing at all.

    In that case one more sleep until season 3 of Mr. Robot starts

    Three more sleeps until we have a new government.
    • WILD KATIPO 11.1

      11 October 2017 at 8:52 am

      All I can say with all these sleeps is we are all gonna need one hec of a stiff coffee to wake up when its finally announced ….zzzzzzz…
      • Cinny 11.1.1

        11 October 2017 at 9:00 am

        Ain’t that the truth 😀
12. Incognito 12

    11 October 2017 at 9:14 am

    I have no problem whatsoever with Friday 13th.
    • cleangreen 12.1

      11 October 2017 at 10:12 am

      Incognito; – Only if you are superstitious!!!!!!!!!

      Winston is too widely travelled to bother with witchcraft, are you?
      Anyway he wont be finished by friday so sit on your corner stool for the final result.
      • The decrypter 12.1.1

        11 October 2017 at 11:00 am

        Ok Rip van Winkle, will do.
      • Incognito 12.1.2

        11 October 2017 at 5:20 pm

        Nah, I am not superstitious, just a little worried about those meteorites crashing into my lounge trying to kill me 😉 They’re after me, them space rocks with their smoky tails of ice crystals that glitter in the dark; spooky stuff really …

        What was the question again?
        • Andrea 12.1.2.1

          11 October 2017 at 9:50 pm

          They said it would fly past above the usual orbit of the space junk/satellites. Close – and no smoky tails. This time.
13. Karen 13

    11 October 2017 at 9:46 am

    I don’t care how long it takes as long as we get a result that will make NZ a better place.

    Just looked at this clip:

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/watch-jacinda-arderns-emotional-embrace-tearful-mother-15-year-old-suicide-victim

    The fate of some of these politicians will be pivotal to what kind of country we end up with. My hope is that Jacinda will be PM and Julie-Anne Genter (standing behind her) will be Transport Minister, because that will mean Labour and The Greens are both part of the new government. And the callous Jonathan Coleman will no longer be Minister of Health.

    Having NZF as part of the government is not what I wanted but hopefully not too many dead rats will have to be swallowed. There is an argument that it would be better for the left if they waited but I do not agree. Too many people will suffer in the meantime.
    • WILD KATIPO 13.1

      11 October 2017 at 9:54 am

      … ” There is an argument that it would be better for the left if they waited but I do not agree. Too many people will suffer in the meantime ” …

      100% . The time is now. Though frankly , I’m glad it could include NZ First , purely for their anti neo liberalism and strong emphasis on what their title is – New Zealand First.

      Its high time we got that back and took a pride in who we are again.
    • cleangreen 13.2

      11 October 2017 at 10:23 am

      I would like Winston as associate minister of finance and the new “Minister of rail”!!!!

      As we again own the rail Winston would make sure it ran better by sacking all the senior National installed “cling-ons”.

      My list for hiring are;

      CEO Peter Reidy & his partner KR board vice chair (contraversial) Paula Rebstock, and their partner in crime “operations manager” David Gordon;

      As they are incompetent, and have almost destroyed our publically owned Kiwirail system single handed.
      • veutoviper 13.2.1

        11 October 2017 at 10:27 am

        Hiring or firing? Presume you mean firing? Please, please – and firing from every other appointment they and similar people are currently in thanks to National.
      • cleangreen 13.2.2

        11 October 2017 at 11:17 am

        Correction thanks veutoviper!!!!
        My list for firing are;

        CEO Peter Reidy & his partner KR board vice chair (contraversial) Paula Rebstock, and their partner in crime “operations manager” David Gordon;

        As they are incompetent, and have almost destroyed our publically owned Kiwirail system single handed.

        These people are simply hired to destroy our assets for another fire sale.
        • Anne 13.2.2.1

          11 October 2017 at 5:34 pm

          Helen Clark wasted no time firing the chaff of 1999 – Christine Rankin been the most rancid.

          If Winston goes with Lab/Greens, it will be interesting to see whether he/they will exhibit the same determination to rid this country of the National Party chaff who currently run nearly all of our public institutions.
14. Robert Guyton 14

    11 October 2017 at 3:05 pm

    Are we going with feelings?
    NZF/Labour/Green.
    • cleangreen 14.1

      11 October 2017 at 3:10 pm

      Robert we are going with hopes and prayers of course.
    • WILD KATIPO 14.2

      11 October 2017 at 3:51 pm

      Feelings? ,… feelings? … nothing more than feelings?

      And don’t start up with anymore about Winston’s ‘ bottom lines ‘ either !

      ( and try to ignore the pukey visuals… ick ! )

      Feelings – Morris Albert – YouTube
      
    • Incognito 14.3

      11 October 2017 at 5:25 pm

      NZF/Labour/Green=mixed feelings

      NZF/National-ACT=feeling sick

      Did you mean “expectations” rather than “feelings”?
      • cleangreen 14.3.1

        11 October 2017 at 8:04 pm

        Anything to rid the rotting carass of the toxic corupt National Party eh!
15. timeforacupoftea 15

    11 October 2017 at 7:13 pm

    I reckon that no politicians should be paid from election night until the new gov’t is assembled.

    That may speed the process up a tad !
    • Andrea 15.1

      11 October 2017 at 9:54 pm

      I’m sure we can run a long time without a central government. It’s not the figureheads that move the boats along…

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