Apparently Labour was to blame for the global financial crisis

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1. Blazer 1

   5 July 2018 at 9:22 am

   August 2010-
   ‘Prime Minister John Key says he is concerned that New Zealanders could become “tenants in their own land” and that is why the Government is looking at overseas investment rules around land sales to foreigners.

   A TV3 poll released tonight showed 75.5 percent of voters want the rules tightened, with only 8 percent saying they should be relaxed.’Stuff.’

   National all talk no action.
2. Gosman 2

   5 July 2018 at 9:23 am

   The trend was for lower consents from the early 2000’s (And especially from around 2003). The GFC only hit NZ in 2008
   • bwaghorn 2.1

     5 July 2018 at 1:20 pm

     The Aussie boom played a part in that kiwis were flocking over to oz chasing big $$.
     And no it wasn’t Labour’s fault they were going it was just big pay packets nz couldn’t compete with plus the sheep factor.
   • Tricledrown 2.2

     5 July 2018 at 4:41 pm

     Gosman the value of consents didn’t decline till 2007 building costs were rising but land availablility was becoming a problem by 2007.
     The economy under labour grew by volume by 3 times what National managed before and after with much lower unemployment.
     Much higher savings govt investment as well.
     Nationals govt books made to look much better than the totals.
     Due to massive returns from ACC prepaid future funding account the Cullen Fund and kiwisaver disguising Nationals, $110 billion borrowing for tax cuts around elections
   • Tricledrowm 2.3

     5 July 2018 at 10:06 pm

     Gosman consents issued don’t equal numbers of houses built.
     a consent is a piece of paper not houses built.
     • infused 2.3.1

       7 July 2018 at 5:43 pm

       you dont know how building a house works, do you?
3. Enough is Enough 3

   5 July 2018 at 10:04 am

   Greg can you read a graph?

   It looks like a downward trend from about 2003/2004. It plateaued out about the time the GFC began.

   I am surprised by this graph. I would have expected growth over the early to middle part of the decade with a steep decline around 2008.
   • dukeofurl 3.1

     5 July 2018 at 10:26 am

     The are cherry picking by firstly using monthly totals, then only Auckland.

     Amy Adams of course wouldnt have a clue about housing , so some ambitious and
     dishonest person in the nats staff/Collins office has done it for her. ( Adams ‘disappearance’ over last 3 months is telling is this her ‘breakout hit’)

     The biggest decider of housing back then was likely interest rates movement and the Reserve Bank here signalled a slow down a bit before the GFC by sharply raising rates to ‘ create a soft landing’.

     If you overlay the interest rates on this data it will likely mimic some of the swings
     • Enough is Enough 3.1.1

       5 July 2018 at 11:34 am

       I am not disagreeing with any of what you say.

       I’m just pointing out the graph in no way supports Greg’s proposition that the GFC caused consents to decline. The graph shows things consistently going downhill from about 2004, (which is kind of what Adams was saying).
       • dukeofurl 3.1.1.1

         5 July 2018 at 2:15 pm

         Consents can be different things. I was involved in some around that time period. A good percentage are not progressed or a particular month might have an apartment block consent with say 75 individual units. A new subdivision might be released and theres a rush of consents for the sections in the next 6 months. The slowdown was mainly because interest rates were rising and the supply of land was drying up. I know developers who were passing on some sites because of rising prices at the time.

         they are using fine detail for a reason, all the other measures, say 6 monthly show them in a bad light

         We saw that with the SHA’s a scheme under national, these werent building consents for homes, but the first step. Huge numbers of sites got the RMA/SHA consent, a smaller fraction got the site consent to create a subdivision and even smaller numbers of homes that were completed. Dont remember details now but it was something like 1/10
       • dukeofurl 3.1.1.2

         5 July 2018 at 3:12 pm

         Enough , they have used a monthly graph to specifically muddy the drop. yearly or 6 monthly consent issued are a better measure.

         NZs sharp increase in interest rates have more effect before 2008
         https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/key-graphs/key-graph-90-day-rate

         You can see big rises after 5% in about 2004, 7.5% in 2007 and then in hindsight the disastrous steeper climb to 9% in 2008. US rates were falling after 2006
         • Tricledrown 3.1.1.2.1

           5 July 2018 at 9:59 pm

           Dukeoferl numbers of consents issued don’t tell you how many houses actually built so who ever put the consent figures up is not telling the whole story it may take several years for that consent to be acted on.
   • Draco T Bastard 3.2

     5 July 2018 at 10:59 am

     I’m not. John Key was actually correct in 2007 when he said that a housing crisis was developing. It just all disappeared when he and National got power.

     The problem then was the same as it is now: Excessive immigration and a banking system that produces asset bubbles.

     http://positivemoney.org/issues/house-prices/
4. Hooch 4

   5 July 2018 at 10:27 am

   This sort of stuff reminds of a quote from terminator, adapted to suit below…

   “Listen, and understand. The national party is out there, it cant be bargained with, it cant be reasoned with, it doesn’t feel pity or remorse or fear, and it absolutely will not stop…EVER, untill labour are dead”
   • the other pat 4.1

     6 July 2018 at 10:15 am

     awesome!!! +9999999999999
5. Psych nurse 5

   5 July 2018 at 10:33 am

   The massive rebuild in Canterbury post 2011 can only have inflated the stats. Therefore the rate of building outside of Canterbury must have been inadequate to have met the needs of other centres such as Auckland.
   • indiana 5.1

     5 July 2018 at 10:39 am

     You make a good point. It would be good then to compare the number of new build consents in Canterbury for the period 2000-2010 and see if that was in decline too.
6. patricia bremner 6

   5 July 2018 at 10:49 am

   Just more right wing garbage. Stats massaged as Collins did to make the crime stats look better in my opinion, selective misleading representation of events by the housing crisis deniers.

   The fact the nats are going gangbusters to denigrate Kiwibuild tells me it is a winner.
   The public agree, as the rate of sign up attests. Let’s do this, Phil and Coalition.
   • Gosman 6.1

     5 July 2018 at 12:11 pm

     What is the rate of sign-up to Kiwibuild? I have yet to see any figures.
     • arkie 6.1.1

       5 July 2018 at 12:19 pm

       6,000 sign up to Kiwibuild on the first day.

       https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-04-07-2018/#comment-1499633
       • infused 6.1.1.1

         7 July 2018 at 5:45 pm

         Just so you’re aware, anyone and their dog can sign up. The legit, or eligible number is not known.
     • Pat 6.1.2

       5 July 2018 at 12:24 pm

       “Just over 17,000 people lured by the chance to get an “affordable” home have flocked to register their interest in one of the 100,000 KiwiBuild properties planned for the next decade.”

       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12083472

       approx 1 hour ago
       • Gosman 6.1.2.1

         5 July 2018 at 12:49 pm

         Oh I see. You think that because people are signing up for what they think will be cheap housing that must mean the programme will deliver cheap housing.
         • dv 6.1.2.1.1

           5 July 2018 at 12:56 pm

           What is the rate of sign-up to Kiwibuild? I have yet to see any figures.

           You asked the question. It was answered.
           • McFlock 6.1.2.1.1.1

             5 July 2018 at 1:08 pm

             +1

             gossy slide fail
           • dukeofurl 6.1.2.1.1.2

             5 July 2018 at 3:01 pm

             Its called a Gosman Gallop where he repeatedly ask requests which are ongoing…. as hes mostly wrong.
             much as fleeing burglar will drop various items hoping to distract his persuer
         • Pat 6.1.2.1.2

           5 July 2018 at 2:23 pm

           hmmmm….and how do you leap to that conclusion from the 4 words I wrote?
           • Wensleydale 6.1.2.1.2.1

             5 July 2018 at 2:32 pm

             Gosman’s perfected the art of mental gymnastics over many years. His other skills are repeatedly asking questions, the answers to which are freely available via Google, but refusing to search for them himself, and being smug. Being smug is probably his forte, to be honest.
         • Hongi Ika 6.1.2.1.3

           5 July 2018 at 4:00 pm

           JK and National said there was not a housing crisis ?
         • woodart 6.1.2.1.4

           5 July 2018 at 4:59 pm

           cant focus on more than one troll at a time???
         • Baba Yaga 6.1.2.1.5

           5 July 2018 at 5:21 pm

           Kiwibuild will not deliver a single extra house than would have been built anyway. Not a single one.
         • the other pat 6.1.2.1.6

           6 July 2018 at 10:17 am

           i’ve been silent on you but i got to ask…. are you really gerry brownlea or simon bridges???…or do you postulate some bullshit just to see you name in “print”
7. Aaron 7

   5 July 2018 at 12:49 pm

   Ah, so one neoliberal party is trying to blame the another neoliberal party for a problem caused by both of them over the last 3 decades!

   Wake me up when someone wants to do something real about the problem.
   • Enough is Enough 7.1

     5 July 2018 at 1:18 pm

     Perfectly stated Aaron
8. Blazer 8

   5 July 2018 at 2:16 pm

   Literally millions of new millionaires with chinese sounding surnames have been created since the new millenium.

   Couple this with the effects of massive QE, compliments of the GFC,and stable western nations with very lax criteria for property investment’ by foreigners and …voila!

   What other asset class is safer for a world awash with ‘printed’ money
   • soddenleaf 8.1

     5 July 2018 at 2:58 pm

     A house, empty, in every major city owned by the same multi millionaires. That’s a tax, a private tax, on our land, infrastructure, our utilities. And do they even pay tax when trading the housing pocketing capital gain…

     it’s nuts that we debate housing, it should never have come to this.
   • Hongi Ika 8.2

     5 July 2018 at 4:02 pm

     Buying by our little yellow skinned brothers along with QE and financial liquidity since the GFC have created a housing bubble here in NZ ?
     • Baba Yaga 8.2.1

       5 July 2018 at 5:25 pm

       Is that sarcasm, or an attempt to better Labour’s racism?
       • Andrea 8.2.1.1

         5 July 2018 at 9:55 pm

         Baba Yaga: “Racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior.”

         Maybe the first part.
         Where’s the evidence of the latter part of the definition?

         Or is ‘racism’ the new word to express a dislike of queue jumpers flaunting large sums of money before the usual easily-dazzled eyes? The ones who can blow by the people who have gone short for years to save a deposit.
         The ones who have a huge advantage over the trusting mugs in the low-wage economy. From wherever and regardless of ethnicity.

         That ‘racism’? Okay. Same page. Same hymn.
         • Baba Yaga 8.2.1.1.1

           6 July 2018 at 10:36 am

           Hongi’s post fits your definition perfectly. He’s blaming “little yellow skinned brothers” for creating a housing bubble. It’s not only racist, it’s also factually untrue.
       • Tricledrown 8.2.1.2

         5 July 2018 at 10:04 pm

         Babygaga our resident yapping dog barking madly at every initiative the coalition govt is trying.
         • Baba Yaga 8.2.1.2.1

           6 July 2018 at 10:37 am

           Actually I’m pointing out the hypocrisy of the left. Racism is ok when they do it. Sexism is ok when they do it.
     • Grafton Gully 8.2.2

       5 July 2018 at 7:32 pm

       Why should we sell our homes to Chinese when people like us can’t afford them ?
   • Lettuce 8.3

     5 July 2018 at 6:08 pm

     Indeed. China has been printing money hand-over-fist to keep pump-priming its economy, creating a vast new millionaire class. However, none of them trust China’s Ponzi-scheme economy to keep rising forever without experiencing a major economic shock at some point (if it does, it’ll be a first economy in human history to avoid a crash at some time). Therefore, the trick is to get some of that printed money out of China into much more stable investments like residential property in Western countries (if those countries are stupid enough to allow “overseas investment” in their housing market).

     One way to combat this might be to declare that anyone who owns a property in New Zealand, regardless of how many days they’re in the country per year or their immigration status , is considered a New Zealand resident for tax purposes. Therefore they must pay New Zealand income tax on their verified worldwide income (with all double taxation agreements observed in the interests of fairness of course). It would be interesting to see how many foreign speculators chose to retain their New Zealand properties if this were the case.
9. CHCOff 9

   5 July 2018 at 3:01 pm

   In a somewhat sad state of affairs, but wasn’t Mr Key at the time orbiting around the circles that triggered the global crisis via the faulty derivative packages & the like into the global economy?
10. Blazer 10

    5 July 2018 at 3:34 pm

    John Key made the biggest $ windfall of any deal he has done in his life when he sold his Parnell property and retained 500 sq m of it.

    No wonder he resigned…the ultimate inside trade.JK…’no comment’.
    • indiana 10.1

      5 July 2018 at 3:58 pm

      Wow! if thats your conspiracy theory, then I have one that Kiwibuild is a Labour’s version of a ponzie scheme, where they will earn the interest on the deposit made to buy a house that may not get built!
      • Lettuce 10.1.1

        5 July 2018 at 9:24 pm

        The only way that’s going to happen is if New Zealanders are stupid enough to re-elect a National government that cancels Kiwibuild and leaves it to the (very) “invisible hand of the market” to build the houses we desperately need.
11. Blazer 11

    5 July 2018 at 4:08 pm

    Key 2007.

    ‘We also want to ensure that every young New Zealander who works hard and is disciplined about saving can expect to own their own home and thereby have a real stake in the economic future of this country.

    Today, I want to talk in some depth about the declining rates of home ownership in New Zealand. ‘

    ‘This problem won’t be solved by knee-jerk, quick-fix plans. And it won’t be curbed with one or two government-sponsored building developments.

    Instead, we need government leadership that is prepared to focus on the fundamental issues driving the crisis. National is ready to provide that leadership. Earlier this month I announced our four-point plan for improving home affordability:

    Ensuring people are in a better financial position to afford a house.
    Freeing up the supply of land.
    Dealing with the compliance issues that drive up building costs.
    Allowing state house tenants to buy the houses they live in

    ‘The Government’s own research into home affordability has stated in no uncertain terms that, “The RMA process needs a revamp to reduce delays associated with objections.” That’s because delays result in major uncertainty for people considering developing housing.

    They also cost money directly. A one-month delay on a $12 million project adds $100,000 to its cost. This increased cost in turn increases the required profit margin for houses and thus the price of those houses when they eventually come to be sold. This is just one more way that the RMA hits first-home buyers in the hip-pocket. .

    National is committed to simplifying and streamlining the RMA and doing it fast. We will introduce our RMA reform bill in the first 100 days of a National Government. Those changes will be made into law within six months.

    Furthermore, any changes we make to streamline and speed up the process of zoning or land release will require developers to build on that land within a reasonable timeframe. This will prevent the land-banking that is currently choking off the supply of land.
    Since I made those initial announcements, various experts and independent bodies have come out with even more evidence to support our approach. I intend to go over some of that evidence in this speech.

    Over the next 18 months or so, in the lead-up to the 2008 election, I will be announcing plenty of new policy in these areas.

    National will look for long-term solutions based on a sound understanding of the economic forces that have led to the contemporary low home-ownership rates. ‘
    • Leaps 11.1

      5 July 2018 at 5:30 pm

      Yeah right!
      That’s the longest Tui ad I’ve ever seen 😉
    • Stuart Munro 11.2

      5 July 2018 at 11:52 pm

      Yeah I remember that. Key talked a good game on housing. Did fuck all to fix it though.
      • Lettuce 11.2.1

        6 July 2018 at 1:03 am

        Didn’t want to upset the donors.
      • SpaceMonkey 11.2.2

        6 July 2018 at 7:56 am

        He couldn’t afford to.
    • smilin 11.3

      12 July 2018 at 11:36 pm

      Amazing how he never meant a word of it .And no one even saw it as being a lie that should have cost him the election
      • Blazer 11.3.1

        13 July 2018 at 7:36 am

        When a home owner sees his own property in Auckland increasing by $1000 a week, year in year out,he feels pretty good….and he/she votes.
        The finance sector,advertising,insurance,RE …all absolutely love it.
12. tsmithfield 12

    5 July 2018 at 4:47 pm

    What the graph shows is a steady decline under Labour from around 2003. Then a gradual recovery under National. This recovery occurred despite backdrop of the Global Financial Crisis, which makes National’s management even more remarkable.
    • Blazer 12.1

      5 July 2018 at 4:54 pm

      Do you moonlight as a comedian.
      National sat on their hands and watched as property prices exploded.
      They did borrow about 100 billion in their term…remarkable??
      • tsmithfield 12.1.1

        5 July 2018 at 5:11 pm

        All I am doing is pointing out what the graph indicates that is in plain sight. Afterall, that is what the article relies on.

        In fact, I suspect that a third variable such as immigration trends is more likely to explain the graph than any particular party that was in power over the period.
    • Tricledrown 12.2

      5 July 2018 at 9:45 pm

      ByTsm land availablility the cost of building houses increased at a rapid rate after 2004 making houses and house building more expensive.
      The value of new builds didn’t decline till 2007 their were big shortages of labour materials and land with low unemployment in Auckland mainly.
      Numbers of consents don’t tell the full picture numbers of consents completed.
      As usual someone is only telling part of the story.
      The housing shortage in Auckland has been well documented as starting in the early 1990s.
      Looking at stats nz the slow down in NZ started about mid 2007.
      Unemployment was still around 3. 6% up until 2009 when National took power.
      • Herodotus 12.2.1

        5 July 2018 at 10:14 pm

        During 2007-8 activity dropped part due to the collapse of the second tier finance coys and then with the reluctance of the major banks to fund developers and those building companies. In many cases the trading banks were diverting working capital that was intended to be used in constructing land/houses/appartments etc. to now reducing debt levels. In summary there was few companies with the financial means to continue development. It took until 2011-12 until banks were open to providing adequate capital again.
13. Gabby 13

    5 July 2018 at 6:17 pm

    What’s the big spike around 2003 down to shmitty?
14. cleangreen 14

    5 July 2018 at 7:12 pm

    Good logic Micky.

    While Gosman is running his/her campaign to plug the cracked walls of the national Party machine I for one think that Amy Adams is just carrying out her well used policy of repeating the lies under the national party belief that if you repeat the lie long enough it becoms the truth so anything that national says now should be ignored.
15. R.P Mcmurphy 15

    5 July 2018 at 10:01 pm

    you dont need a graph to know that as Winston Peters opined the nationals party is an amalgam of amateur backbenchers. I would call them manques and parvenus. they dont read books and dont give a toss about history unless it is something the nationals research office has cooked up for them to read out at night when the heavy hitters have gone home and then wait for the tame print media and the hoskins and garners of this world to repeat for the masses edification.
16. Oberver Tokoroa 16

    6 July 2018 at 8:04 am

    Twisted Capitalists

    National through Paula Bennett and Billy English have maintained for several there is no housing crisis in New Zealand. An utter total lie. Ref: Salvation Army and numerous other Sensible Community Groups.

    So no matter what Amy Adams says, National stands as the party who deprives Hundreds of thousands of housing.

    And garnishes that tradjedy it with absolutely UNaffordable Rents. Further iced with very low wages.

    The Greed and the callous behaviour of National is the reason why National is gagging out nonsense via Amy Adams is because they are wetting their pants over the mess they have created at every opportunity since 1980s

    The Public know – that National will get you nowhere – unless you are very greedy and and within a cabal marked “Very Very Wealthy”.

    Don’t let your advisors twist you with a mirage of numbers. I know you don’t like Kiwis, unless they are Capitalists. But guard your soul against dishonesty. Trust The Salvation Army and Other Community Groups.

    Do not trust national creeps or trolls.
17. Rozgonz 17

    6 July 2018 at 12:50 pm

    Interesting, so now you acknowledge there was a GFC after failing to do so for the 9 years National was in government.

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