Back to school for Parata

Written By: - Date published: 8:01 am, May 22nd, 2012 - 26 comments
Categories: education - Tags:

Parata on The Nation: “what we’ve had is a five-fold increase in the number of teachers while we’ve only had a 2% increase in students”. There are 52,500 teachers. Is Parata really saying there were only 10,500 a decade ago? The minister needs remedial maths, methinks.

This is the tragedy: our kids’ education being toyed with by nincompoops and dullards whose objective has nothing to do with education and everything to do with crushing teachers’ unions for ideological and political reasons.

Update: It also turns out that Parata has been saying teachers are paid an average of $71,000. In fact, that’s the average including head teachers and those in management. The real average wage for all teachers is $47,000. Guess Parata needs to do some primary school level set theory too.

26 comments on “Back to school for Parata”

  1. Carol 1

    Aha! So here we have the truth about that claim by Parata that the average teacher pay is $71,000.

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/police-paid-more-teachers-because-life-line-parata-ck-119149

    Speaking on yesterday’s TV3’s The Nation programme, Ms Parata conceded that while police started their careers at a salary of around $45,000, teachers got around $10,000 less.

    Ms Parata said the average pay for teachers, including head teachers and those in management positions was $71,000 but for the full range of teachers was it was only $47,232.

    • Aha.

      I also could not understand that figure and my wife who is a senior teacher was wondering what happened to her pay … 

  2. Clashman 2

    It’s called lying.

  3. Colonial Viper 3

    Five times more teachers means that class sizes must now be around the 6 students per teacher mark. Amazing!

  4. Dv 4

    If you divide the amount teachers are paid by no employed ie principals to first year teacher the average is about 71k

    • Carol 4.1

      But using that stat is misleading because most people take it for the median wage: ie that 50% of teachers earn more than that.

    • Colonial Viper 4.2

      If you divide the amount teachers are paid by no employed ie principals to first year teacher the average is about 71k

      Yeah, just like how port of Auckland worker is paid $200,000 p.a. if you average in the pay of the Tony Gibson CEO and the rest of the executive team.

      • Dv 4.2.1

        This is the comment i made on 19th may.

        19 May 2012 at 5:41 pm

        Parata is quoting average teacher salary of 71,000 , only reached after several years experience.

        that is the top of the scale for a class room teacher AND it started on the 13th of may this year.

        So the 71k cannot be the average for the ‘ordinary’ teacher.

        I smell spin.

  5. tc 5

    WTF is wrong with the so called MSM when they allow a minister to lie so blatantly.

    Are they so under the thumb of this gov’t or are they badly prepared, or both, that they’ve no numbers at their fingertips to be able to refute and challenge a minister.

    Key and his ministers have been doing this for years and continue unchallenged, what a joke our media is.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 5.1

      Tolley generally stayed away from interviews as she couldnt give any coherent message.

      It seems that Trish Parata is stuck in the same babbling brook

    • muzza 5.2

      TC – This is what you get when you have coporations (media), which depend on advertising revenues, being driven by tabloid style politics, aimed at an ever declining public cranial capacity! Not forgetting that global media is the propaganda arm of those same warmongering, government controlling banking cartels!

      Those who pass as journalists and reporters these days are the epitomy of uninformed (faces), who do not have the thinking capacity or time for proper research. If they lack the numbers to challenge, that is one thing, if they are being told not to challenge, that is another!

      We can expect nothing from the MSM, that is not in their best interests, its as simple as that!

  6. captain hook 6

    so parata cant do sums.
    its a fair bet she cant read either.

  7. fabregas4 7

    I equally find it hard to believe that the average wage of teachers alone is $47k (and I am on their side). There is a consensus I think that the average age of teaching staff in the country is increasing and this would mean that a great number of teachers would have passed through the salary steps. Unit payments would also play a part. That said haven’t met too many teachers who don’t deserve their pay. The cost of training to be a teacher also needs to be considered. Most teachers end up with substantial student debt – too be even greater now with 4 year qualification. If you want to make the comparison with the police – they get paid whilst training and begin their working life, as difficult as it is, without the burden of student loans.

  8. prism 8

    That’s the trouble with percentages. You need to know the base amount that it refers to. They seem such an easy way for us ordinary people to make judgments but are just part of the picture. There’s a cynical saying that 100% rise from 0 is still 0. Percentages are not simple measures and give wrong understandings as in the use of confusing. statistics.

    I read that figure of $71,000 and thought it was amazingly high from my understanding of teacher’s salaries. That it refers to principals and head teachers and secondary specialist teachers in science etc. would be more likely. The throwaway figures given to the media to disseminate amongst the unwary public is another indication of the irrational and sly way that pollies treat their preparation and presentation of policy. In a modern society we expect better than being led by the nose as poor ignorant peasants.

  9. Wayne 10

    Why are so many of the stats in The Standard in the primary articles often so demonstrably wrong. It has been known for a long time that the $71,000 covers all teachers, those starting through to those with management responsibility. The $47,000 is a starting salary for graduates. I know the scale starts lower, but that is for teachers without a graduate qualification and is really a relic of the past. The reality is that all new teachers need a graduate qualification. ZETETIC could have easily checked all of this before he posted.

    [Parata herself has admitted the average for all teachers in $47,000. Teachers start on $35,000 and the peak base rate is $71,000. It’s in the collective. It’s funny how the right begrudge teachers their modest pay when many of them are on massively higher incomes and do fuck all. Zet]

  10. Ross 11

    Earlier this year I asked the Ministry of Education for details of secondary school teachers’ pay. I got dicked around but eventually was informed that the average pay is $65,659 (and this figure excludes the pay of principals, deputy principals, assistant principals, and relievers and also excludes allowances). I was further informed that 6,075 employees (secondary teachers?) were paid below this figure and 15,708 employees above this figure.

  11. Stephen D 12

    I was told once that some time back, a teachers pay and a backbenchers pay were the same rate. Is there any way to verify that? Can’t find my round the Statistics Dept.

  12. captain hook 13

    All this focus on teachers.
    what about the pupils.
    how are there percentages.
    are they getting any smarter?

  13. Wayne 14

    As the Collective demonstates (good that it was included in the comment by Zet) the starting salary for a Q3 teacher (a person who has a 3 year degree) is $45,568 and a Q3+ teacher (a person with a 3 year degree and a diploma of teaching) is $46,908. I suggest it would be very difficult for anyone now to get a first time teaching position without these qualifications. That is why $47,000 is not the average.

  14. sunshine 15

    So is this the same math that says port workers get 91,000 a year?
    Every day we see more and more common trends, privatisation, reduction of services, figures that don’t add up…pretty obvious really. How thick do they think we are?
    Oh yeah, they want to cut education, so they make sure people don’t have the thinking skills to analyse their spin.

  15. Hateatea 16

    Payrates for Primary teachers
    Pay for primary school teachers varies depending on qualifications and experience.

    With a three-year Diploma of Teaching qualification, you start on $34,847 a year. Pay rises each year for seven years to $55,621 – the maximum on this pay scale. 
    With a three-year Bachelor of Education (Teaching) or equivalent, or an Advanced Diploma of Teaching, you start on $45,568. You can reach a maximum of $67,413 after seven years.
    With four years’ tertiary study, you start on $46,908 a year, and can reach a maximum of $70,877 after seven years.

    and for Secondary
    Pay
    Secondary school teachers with four years’ tertiary study start on $47,023 a year, but can earn more depending on additional qualifications and experience. 
    Pay increases each year for seven years according to a fixed scale, with the maximum pay $71,000 a year.

    Secondary school teachers may earn more than this if:

    they take on management roles such as dean or head of department
    they teach the shortage subjects of maths, physics, chemistry, English, or te reo Māori, where they receive an extra $3,500 a year for up to five years, paid in their third, fourth and fifth years of teaching
    they teach in a school that is identified as one that is hard to staff, where they receive an extra $3,500 in their third, fourth and fifth years of teaching
    they teach in a private or independent school, which sometimes pay an extra $2,000 to $3,000 a year.

    Source: ‘Secondary Teachers’ Collective Agreement’, 2011, and Ministry of Education website.
    Either the minister assumes that all are on the maximum or she is feeding us spin in the hope that we will believe her uncritically. Surely not?

  16. DH 17

    Something I think Labour & Greens need to improve on is their research & challenging of this Govts abuse of statistics. We’ve had this discussion on average teachers pay before and it’s still not settled. This link shows the numbers;

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/ED1009/S00093/teacher-pay-figures-are-correct.htm

    Note a couple of points they make;

    “The total base salary bill for secondary teachers for that fortnight’s pay was $46 million. The total allowances bill for secondary teachers was $4.5 million. ”

    Then they say;

    “Added together, base salary plus allowances provided the total pay for secondary teachers.

    “We divided that total pay by the 18,522 secondary teachers on the teacher salary payroll, and arrived at the figure of $71,110.”

    But, and here’s the big but, their factoid says….

    • Payday: 7 April 2010

    • Number of FTE secondary teachers: 18,522

    • Total base salary paid: $46,023,875

    • Total allowances paid: $4,494,135

    • Total pay: $50,518,010

    • Total pay divided by number of teachers = $2,727.46

    • $2,727.46 multiplied by 26.07 (total number of pay periods per year) = $71,110.

    Note the bit about FTE teachers. That’s stands for Full Time Equivalents and it cannot exist on a teacher salary payroll, it’s a calculated number not a real one. Yet they claim to be using payroll figures. That suggests the numbers are not simple maths as stated in that article and may have been manipulated to give a false average.

    It also still hasn’t been resolved whether the average includes the 310 principals and 627 senior management who are counted as teachers by MED but don’t actually teach. They’d take the average up a lot since they get paid heaps more than teachers. Info on that here;

    http://www.educationcounts.govt.nz/statistics/schooling/teaching_staff

    Would be nice to see this settled for once & for all.

    Also note that Paratas 52,000 teachers is not FTE, they use the big numbers when it suits them.

  17. Simon 18

    So using these figures.

    50,518,010 as total pay for fortnight and 26.07 pay periods

    for 18522 FTEs you get $71,110

    for 52,000 teachers average is actually $25,327.
    This also includes all part time teachers.

    Median will be somewhere in between

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    4 days ago
  • I watched Miss Universe NZ 2017 so you don’t have to
    Beauty queens, magic, dangly bits and nip slips - Miss Universe NZ had it all.   The top five Miss Universe NZ contestants (L-R): Shekinah Delos Santos, Sarah Hensby-Bennett, Harlem-Cruz Ihaia, Holly Waghorn and Brooke Houia. Screenshot: Miss ...
    4 days ago
  • NZ Post spied on the public
    Last night we learned that NZ Post had been spying on the public, using microphones on its delivery vehicles to record and listen to conversations between its employees and random members of the public without the consent of either party. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Aspirational fluff from Ardern 
    by Daphna Whitmore Although women got the vote in the late 19th century, now well in to the 21st century we still do not have pay equity. While overt discrimination against individual female employees is no longer legal or socially ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • National party dead in the water
    The last week in New Zealand politics has been extraordinary. But there’s one political party in particular that appears to be missing in action… the National party.The unelected PM Bill English has failed to gain any real traction in the ...
    4 days ago
  • Barnaby Joyce is a New Zealand citizen
    Over the last few weeks the Australian Parliament has been rocked by a succession of resignations and court referrals over various Senators falling foul of s44 of the Australian constitution, which bars dual-citizens from the legislature. Today, that clause appears ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Dual Modes and Axle Loads
    Last year KiwiRail made the decision to replace the 16 current 30-year-old EF class electric freight trains currently in use on the North Island Main Trunk with the procurement of more DL Class Diesel Trains. These EF Class trains use ...
    Transport BlogBy Harriet Gale
    4 days ago
  • What’s Going On? with Lucy Zee: Beervana
    Eye-popping beer infusions and drinking games with the bros. Lucy Zee heads to New Zealand's biggest beer festival, Beervana.   Produced and presented by Lucy Zee, and filmed and edited by Eddy Fifield. Made with the support of NZ On ...
    4 days ago
  • National resorts to racism on water
    National knows it can't defeat the Labour-Green policy on water charging on fairness grounds, so they're now appealing to racism, with Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations Minister Chris Finlayson scaremongering that making farmers pay their fair share will mean reopening historic ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • A Weak Man Trying to Look Strong
    Donald Trump would not be the first political leader to try to build his popularity, or divert attention from his troubles at home, by seeking a diversion – usually by means of a military adventure of some sort – overseas.  ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    4 days ago
  • Keeping tiny humans alive
    Science is helping more premature babies survive, but for parents it's still a journey marked by fear, pain and joy.   Inside of what looks like a giant Ziploc bag filled with water, the hoof of a tiny lamb ...
    4 days ago
  • The left shouldn’t fear Greg O’Connor
    When Greg O’Connor was a young Police officer he did a stint undercover and has lamented having to arrest gang members he viewed at the time as his mates. This is perhaps the main problem for the left, being that ...
    4 days ago

  • Government must apologise over rebuild debacle
    The Prime Minister owes the public of Otago and Southland an apology and then he must come up with an unredacted copy of the business case for the Dunedin hospital rebuild, says Labour’s Health spokesperson David Clark. "For too long the interests of ...
    2 hours ago
  • Government caves to multi-national tax avoiders in the shadows
    News that the Government has secretly caved in to the demands of multi-national tax avoiders come as no surprise, but will disappoint Kiwi taxpayers, says Labour’s spokesman for Revenue Michael Wood.   “It has been revealed that a United States ...
    18 hours ago
  • Cheaper to stay at The Langham than emergency housing motels
    Labour’s comprehensive plan to fix the housing crisis and ensure there’s enough state housing, means we won’t be paying through the nose for emergency accommodation like the current Government has to, says Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni. “National has ...
    19 hours ago
  • Government must come clean on water
      News that the National Government is secretly working behind closed doors on its own water charging schemes shows their utter hypocrisy on this issue, says Labour’s water spokesperson David Parker.  “They have been carping on about Labour’s plan for ...
    23 hours ago
  • Government pays twice the price for emergency housing motels – with two more on the way
    Under Labour’s plan to build at least 1000 state houses each year, New Zealand wouldn’t be paying more than double the valuations for motels to house Kiwis needing emergency housing, says Labour’s Social Development spokesperson Carmel Sepuloni. “Under questioning today, ...
    2 days ago
  • HAM shows country needs Labour on housing
    The latest Housing Affordability Measure report shows affordability dramatically worsening for Auckland first home buyers, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    2 days ago
  • Canterbury kids get more support for mental health
    Children in Canterbury and Kaikoura will get dedicated mental health support to help them overcome the trauma of the earthquakes, says the Leader of the Opposition Jacinda Ardern. “We’ll fund an extra eighty mental health professionals for the next three ...
    2 days ago
  • Statement on Julie Bishop’s comments
    It is highly regrettable that the Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has chosen to make false claims about the New Zealand Labour Party. I have been utterly transparent about this situation. I stand by my statements this morning that I ...
    3 days ago
  • Labour stands with Pike families
    A Labour Government will stand with the families of Pike River and reaffirm its commitment to safe workplaces by ensuring there will be a Minister responsible for Pike River, says Leader of the Opposition Jacinda Ardern. “The Pike River disaster ...
    3 days ago
  • Yes to Sallies – Labour will build more state houses
    The Salvation Army’s latest report ‘Taking Stock’ shows why New Zealand needs a Labour-led Government committed to a massive house building programme, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. “When the Sallies say the country needs 2000 extra state houses a ...
    3 days ago
  • New Zealanders deserve better than scaremongering over water
    New Zealanders need to hear from National about how they will fund the clean-up of our rivers and lakes for future generations. Instead, National has broadened its scare-mongering, says Labour’s Water spokesperson David Parker. ...
    4 days ago
  • School Leavers’ Toolkit to equip young people for adult life
    Labour will give school leavers the practical skills and knowledge they need for adult life with a new School Leavers’ Toolkit, says Leader of the Opposition Jacinda Ardern. “Our teachers and schools do a great job of teaching our children ...
    4 days ago
  • Pay equity to be a priority for Labour
      Labour will make sure that the country’s mental health workers are a priority when it comes to pay equity negotiations, says the Leader of the Opposition Jacinda Ardern.  “It is very important for me to right the wrong created ...
    6 days ago
  • Labour’s positive education plan
    Today’s announcement on learning support is more tinkering and proof that only a Labour Government will deliver the resources that schools and parents are crying out for, says Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins.  “We have a positive vision for a ...
    7 days ago
  • Pike footage raises questions over government’s actions
    The Government’s seeming determination to turn a blind eye to new questions about what happened at Pike River Mine is troubling, says Labour’s West Coast-Tasman MP Damien O’Connor. ...
    7 days ago
  • Solution to rent rises lies in building houses and stopping speculators
    The spread of rental increases from the big cities to the surrounding regions shows why we need to get on top of the housing shortage build homes our families can afford, and lock out the speculators, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson ...
    1 week ago
  • Clean rivers don’t cost $18 a cabbage
    National is falling into a bad pattern of promising the world and not saying how they will fund it, says Labour’s Water spokesperson David Parker. ...
    1 week ago
  • Time for honest answer on transport funding
    National needs to explain how they will fund the $6 billion funding gap in their 10-year Auckland transport plan, says Labour’s Auckland Issues spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    1 week ago
  • Time for true numbers on overseas speculators
    It’s time for the Government to give accurate figures on the number of houses being bought by overseas speculators, says Labour’s Land Information spokesperson Raymond Huo. ...
    1 week ago
  • Fair and sustainable trade: A Green Party vision for New Zealand’s trading relationships
    Trade is a cornerstone of the New Zealand economy. It provides us with the things we want and need, and enables us to pay for those with exports that generate business opportunities and jobs. However, it should be recognised that ...
    GreensBy Barry Coates
    1 week ago
  • Clean rivers for future generations
    Labour will lead a nationwide effort to restore our rivers and lakes to a clean, swimmable state, says Leader of the Opposition Jacinda Ardern. ...
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand really can do better on health
    Labour’s commitment to affordable access to high quality healthcare will provide a better service for New Zealanders than the current Health Minister, who will not apologise for statements that he made that wrongly criticised hard-working staff in the Southern DHB’s ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour’s plan the answer to motorway chaos
    Labour’s plan to build a light rail network and improve heavy rail and bus services across Auckland is the only answer to the kind of motorway congestion Aucklanders endured this morning, says Labour Transport spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour to build rail to Auckland Airport
    A world class city needs a rail connection from the CBD to its international airport – that’s why Labour will build light rail to Auckland Airport as a priority, says Leader of the Opposition Jacinda Ardern.  “Let’s get Auckland moving ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Is pay equity just too hard for this Govt?
    You are hard pressed these days to find someone that openly admits their misogyny, that men should still be paid more than women. Politicians proclaim that they want to see women paid more, but do their actions back it up? ...
    GreensBy Jan Logie
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s commitment to our Rainbow nation
    The Labour Party has reaffirmed its commitment to New Zealand’s rainbow community with its 2017 Rainbow policy, featuring the goal to end HIV in New Zealand by 2025. Grant Robertson says Labour continues a long and proud tradition of advocating ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s vision for Auckland more than reheated roads
    Labour is more ambitious for Auckland than the reheated set of transport projects proposed by National, says Labour’s Auckland Issues spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Waiting urology patients are the tip of the iceberg
    The 10 patients waiting for urology surgery at Dunedin Hospital are just the tip of the iceberg, says Labour’s Health spokesperson David Clark.  "Hundreds of patients are waiting for follow-up appointments, but they are not deemed serious enough to be ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Maori Landowners Misled by Maori Party
    Māori landowners are being misled by Government hui being held throughout the country promoting the troubled Māori Land Service (MLS), which underpins the Crown’s unpopular Ture Whenua reforms, says Labour’s Ikaroa-Rāwhiti MP Meka Whaitiri. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Government’s Johnny-come-lately approach to multinational tax won’t wash
    It’s a case of baby steps for a Government that still allows multinational companies to avoid paying their fair share of tax, says Labour’s Revenue spokesperson Michael Wood. “After nine years in government, five years after the issue of multinational ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Auckland congestion up there with the world’s worst
    Traffic congestion is costing Auckland up to $2 billion in lost productivity according to the latest report from the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research, says Labour’s Transport spokesperson Michael Wood.  “This is a disaster and underlines the need for ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Experience in Youth Parliament 2016
    Being a Member of Youth Parliament was an unexpected, but fabulous opportunity for me. It provided me a way to connect with other young people who have some things in common, and to learn what it is like to be ...
    GreensBy NZ Green Party
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour backs renters’ call for warm, healthy homes
    80 per cent of renters wish their home was warmer and drier, and that’s what Labour will deliver, says Labour’s Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • We can – and must – do better for Kiwi jobs
    Labour has the plan to get more young New Zealanders into jobs and tackle concerns raised in the latest statistics which show an extra 3000 young Kiwis are neither earning or learning compared to the same time last year, says ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Statement from Jacinda Ardern, Leader of the New Zealand Labour Party
    I want to start by giving my thanks to Andrew. His announcement today and the situation we have found ourselves in is not what anyone expected or wanted In my time working with Andrew I know one thing to be ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Better homes for Maori under Labour
    Labour’s vision is that Māori enjoy an equal playing field and have the same home ownership opportunities as non-Māori, says Labour’s Māori Development spokesperson Kelvin Davis. “Today Labour is proud to announce a detailed Māori housing policy from South Auckland’s ...
    3 weeks ago

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