Because, as I have previously pointed out, the people in receipt of the bulk of the tax cuts are more likely to use them to pay down debt and increase savings. At the expense of the other 80% of taxpayers and any short-term fiscal stimulus.
Those tax cuts go to everyone. National dropped the larger tax cuts that would have targeted higher income earners.. Tax cuts always benefit the people who pay the most tax. Personally I think that is fair. [we’ve been through this time and again. look at the archives under ‘tax’. Cuts don’t have to favour the rich and they definitely don’t have to get infinitely larger as income rises. Labour’s cuts, the current legislated ones, cap out at 80K, National’s ones just get larger and larger the richer the taxpayer is, and National’s cuts for ordinary Kiwi’s are smaller than Labour’s. SP]
As for Kiwisaver. An option to save 2% of your weekly income is fair. And the employer giving extra I never liked and think its still too harsh. Where National went wrong was in making the changes where the income cut in to how much the government kicks into the scheme. Hopefully, they make that change when they legislate.
Well he does have a point, nothing like the state abandoning all responsibility to its citizens to to encourage self-reliance. Just a bit of a shame the people needing the most ‘incentive’ don’t actually have any money to save.
No they don’t. Forty percent of the cash goes to the wealthiest ten percent of taxpayers, while anyone with a family earning less than $44,000 a year pays more tax than they would have under Labour.
Oh, and any anyone in Kiwisaver is worse off, no matter what their income.
I did say average. And why link me to two left blogs (one this very blog) who are clearly partisan when it comes to tax cuts and thus are not balanced.
[the numbers in the links are accurate. If you’re arguing they’re not just because the sources are leftwing, I hope you have some evidence. SP]
Ginger: why do you persevere with this practice of saying things that happen to be wrong, and then when you’re provided with evidence proving you’re wrong you claim bias, or, partisanship?
As Tane pointed out – quite succinctly I might add – “Forty percent of the cash goes to the wealthiest ten percent of taxpayers, while anyone with a family earning less than $44,000 a year pays more tax than they would have under Labour.” Both the links he provided provide you with are only “biased” stylistically, the numbers provided on both links come from National’s tax policy. If the same numbers were on a site like Kiwi-blog the writing around it would show “bias” towards right-leaning ideology. My point is: look at the numbers, not the rhetoric surrounding them.
Actional giving tax cuts to the rich? My god, what is the world coming to.
In other news: China is a communist country that everybody wants as a friend and Russia does not hold fair elections and is about to change their constitution to let Putin back in. Such is the world.
I am going to make such a mint off them this year it is obscene. And I would give it all away to have labour/green in power right now. Go figure.
I like your input here Ginger. A lone, (semi 🙂 ) rational right voice in a sea of lefties.
I don’t agree with anything you say, but I figure that provide us something worth being annoyed by and typing about. Good on you!
Yeah, please don’t leave us Ginger, I don’t know what we’d do without you and those of your ilk. This site would be a left-wing hug-fest if people like you weren’t around.
Clearly not everyone is going to be able to save because some at the bottom need all their available income to meet their living needs. Kiwisaver wasn’t a complete fix for this, at the lower end of the income scale people were still unable to afford it, especially with a 4% entry. I’d prefer to see Kiwisaver reduced to a 1% (or even lower) entry to enable those at the bottom to join in. Employers shouldn’t be forced to match contributions, it makes it harder for those struggling just to pay the staff they have and raises the risk of having to lay off staff to keep their business running.
I think we need some sort of cap on how much the government contributes though, it can’t just be an open chequebook.
The tax relief being touted by National is NOT the solution to this problem for all its cost. In rough summery: it is a short-term and therefore short sighted solution to a long term problem. It will also leave NZ in a worse debt situation than before with a very low stimulatory effect due to the income bracket it targets. (i.e. High income bracket tax relief such as the “bush tax cuts” have the lowest stimulatory return)
See the graph at the end of this blog entry: http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2008104427/tax-cuts-ineffcient-stimulus
Kiwisaver was a long-term solution the core debt problem in NZ which is compacting this crisis on NZ and NZers who have taken on too much debt. Of course kiwisaver would not be a complete solution to this problem either – but it sure does help. In 10 years once savings have grown and compounded, it might be renamed “economy saver”.
I would have preferred more ingenious and targeted initiatives. Utilising industries that have or will have spare capacity – such as the building industry. More specifically using them to increase the growth potential of our country.
No offense but my first reply could have rebutted without editing inside.
The problem is not with the data in either of those left-wing blogs. Its the context you put them in. You say the tax cuts are taken away from lower income people to support the higher income. But tax cuts do that. Labour’s tax cuts do that. When you earn 80, 000. You don’t pay that 80, 000 dollars at the top rate. You pay a proportion at the top rate. Even if you said no tax in the first 20, 000 its still the taxpayers who earn the most money. Second, the tax cuts targeted average income earners. Its clear in the data that is what happened. Yes higher income earners get more benefit from the tax cuts. But that is because they pay the most taxes and they only pay a proportion of tax at that top rate. The rest is taxed at what other income earners are paying.
If it was really a tax cut for the rich. The top tax rate and threshold would have dramatically dropped. Ie. 30 cents for earners $50, 000+. National’s plan originally was to see a bigger tax cut for the rich. But because of economic conditions that was changed so they insured AVERAGE earners would get a tax cut. So while with National’s plan higher income earners get the most benefits. That is inherent in how tax is paid in New Zealand in the first place.
You can make your argument with families. That is a fair assessment. But National’s tax cuts benefit most income earners. Always higher income earners benefit from tax cuts more than others. But the tax cuts still delivered to the average worker. Thus was targeted to the average worker.
—-
Oh and thank you vinsin and Mr Magoo its nice to be insulted. You can say a lot about me but I typically don’t go round insulting people and its a pity you can’t do the same.
Oh and thank you vinsin and Mr Magoo its nice to be insulted. You can say a lot about me but I typically don’t go round insulting people and its a pity you can’t do the same.
Actually it was an honest compliment to an opponent about being stoic in an obviously hostile environment. But I guess you are so used to the insults on this site that you missed it?
Regardless. On to my disagreements with your point of view:
At the end of the day, tax cuts give cash back to workers. They do not have to be given back proportionately and in fact can be given in a almost completely flat across the board way. (e.g. first 20K tax free)
The effect of that policy on anyone earning more than 20K is that they ALL (i.e. almost all in full time work) get the same amount of tax relief. No differentiation at all.
The opposite scenario is to reduce the tax rate by a flat amount. (i.e. all tax reduced by 2% at all levels)
The obvious effect of this policy is to give the richest people a disproportionate amount of the total tax relief. This is because most people in NZ do not actually earn a heck of lot compared to the top 5-10%. (i.e. we are talking medians here, not averages!)
There are all sorts of interesting policies in between. Working for families being one of the most innovative I have seen in that the poorer and more “child strapped” you are, the more you get.
National have opted for a solution more towards the “2% for all” scenario, except that they offset the lower income people by cutting a few other things they may have been entitled to. Their package is quite complicated and as far as I can tell was mostly based on gettimg votes from those not covered by working for families and kiwisaver.
Now you may make an argument over whether the wealthy deserve more cash than the average person during this crisis because they “deserve it more”, but I would imagine that 70% of NZ would not agree with you.
I completely disagree with tax cuts as a solution to this problem. Tax cuts to anyone earning over 70k, triply so. I would remind everyone that we already got a tax cut, so a second is just not sensible at the moment. (some missed out, but the idea is that a cut stimulates growth, not make single and/or rich people feel good)
As I mentioned earlier, I would prefer that the money be spent generating jobs and smart infrastructure investment.
ginger. you’re right you can’t argue with the numbers, and the numbers for nationak’s cuts are 40% of the money going to the wealthiest 10%.
The major difference between national’s tax cut and labour’s is national will cut the top rate by 2% and not raise the threshold for the bottom 12.5% rate. Tax cut packages don’t have to be designed like that
You have to give it to him! – Ginge is persistent, or thick, or both!
How is it possible to NOT see that the tax package promised by National rewards the top income bracket AT THE EXPENSE of those on low incomes – the very ones that will be affected the most by the stricter mortgage criteria introduced by the Banks? And now English has the AUDACITY to somehow claim it, as if its a good thing and the result of National’s prudent management of the economy already!
Low income earners pay very little tax. Low income families are generously supported by working for families. Low income earners get a tax cut. Its not at the expense of them as they are supported several ways via state housing, accommodation supplement etc etc etc. Tax cuts will never work for the truly low income workers. They can only benefit via welfare transfers.
The mortgages are a whole separate matter. Labour didn’t do well in this area either. And I can’t see how low income earners could even come up with 5% deposit on a mortgage.
personal interest.. re your wee picture at top right comments.. is it a brussels sprout? I ask because recently the seeds I planted came up with the look of yours but rounded leaves and tips.. and I’m wondering just what I have got.. someone having mentioned they look like broccoli..
Low income earners pay very little tax
Yes, because they also earn very little. They also have a much larger propotion of their income devoted to “keeping alive and well” than wealthy people.
Tax cuts will never work for the truly low income workers.
The difference they make is far more pronounced for low income earners than for the wealthy. Come on now, you really think that 60/wk for someone on 150k per year is going to impact them more than 20/wk for someone on 30k per year?? Pleeease.
But I do agree with you on that point! Tax cuts are a “block of cheese” joke and will not really serve the public good in the end. As much as we like cash in our hand, it has a history of not being as useful to us as we had hoped compared to healthcare, savings, etc.
“And I can’t see how low income earners could even come up with 5% deposit on a mortgage.”
Welcome home loans. More state houses. Shared equity.
I am sorry, your argument here simply does not fly. In fact it barely stands up at all.
State Houses. Labour is opposed to selling state houses to tenants. Welcome home loans has numerous problems. The fact is there are very few houses that fall under its criteria. Shared equity is very limited and you still need to raise 5% deposit.
Once again the Nats show how effective saying the agreeable things to certain audiences is. I dont think they can commit to saying the same thing time and time again.
Except: “Fresh” and “Ambitious” They sure like saying that.
Please, please respond with something about “they should stop spending the dole on booze and drugs’, I like that one.
If I recall the HES breakdown from Statistics New Zealand correctly, it shows that lower income households spend proportionately more of their income on cigarettes and alcohol than the national average… take from that what you will.
QoT – Why are you talking about beneficiaries. No one is talking about beneficiaries. The only way they make more money is if their benefits rise or they get a job.
It amuses me that when people argue people who pay less tax should be given back more of it. 12% of the working age population in New Zealand pay 51% of the personal tax take. So who is being dealt a disproportionate hand here?
Right ginge, because beneficiaries don’t pay tax … OH WAIT THEY KINDA DO, just like Real People.
Phil – as soon as you define “lower income households” and state the actual proportions involved, it’s just so much “Poor people are stupid and deserve to not be able to afford food for their children”.
Yes they do pa tax indirectly true. But I still struggle to see your point about beneficiaries. Since we’re talking about tax cuts for those who pay income tax.
Pascal. I do not have those figures at my fingertips, and I believe they fall outside the study’s parameters. But income tax levels should be set on the basis of income, and not wealth.
Yikes – I feel for Ginger. It’s nice to get a little heated debate going, but lets be rational.
1. Low income families earn less, therefore spend proportionately more on consumption. Therefore they save less than those on higher incomes. This is always going to be true…can anybody suggest a way out of this?
I agree with Tim – maybe the threshhold for Kiwisaver should be dropped to 1% – yes its a tiny amount, but something is better than nothing no? 4% is really high for somebody on the average wage or lower…and we should be encouraging saving at all levels of society.
2. Beneficiaries pay tax through GST – consumption taxes and yes they don’t benefit from income tax cuts, seeing as they do not technincally work and pay personal income tax. I’m sorry, but that seems fair to me. If an individual is on the unemployment benefit I feel they shouldn’t receive the same advantages as somebody who works. Those on sickness or invalid benefits are an entirely different story. Maybe the problem is in lumping different types of beneficiaries into one category…when they all have different needs and incentives.
3. The response to National’s tax cut package was that the rich are benefitting more than the average kiwi…
The way I see it is that if you have natural talent or you worked your butt off to get a job that pays highly, why should you be penalised for that? Most of the people I know that earn over $60,000 have either spent a significant amount of time studying or working their way up to get there. They spent time and money to get where they are and to maintain that position. Why begrudge somebody for having money?
Also – note the difference between income and wealth. Two very different things…!
Lastly, what constitutes an average kiwi? Moreover define ‘rich’…
Steve Withers, yes 1% makes for a poor retirement plan but is nonetheless savings and in that respect is better than saving 0%. Also these people will receive superannuation.
Additionally Kiwisaver funds can also be used towards a house deposit (and contributions can be funnelled to mortgage payments) and in that respect the 1% could be more useful.
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Climate campaigners impersonating bank staff have taken to the streets this week to expose ANZ Bank’s sponsorship of the fossil fuel industry. In the series of satirical actions in Wellington, Dunedin, and Auckland, the ‘bank staff’ promoted ...
Auckland Action Against Poverty joins the Children’s Commissioner , The Green Party , The New Zealand Drugs Foundation , Child Poverty Action Group and other organisations in the calls for an immediate end to the drug testing benefit sanctions. ...
Negotiations between Port Otago workers represented by the Rail and Maritime Transport Union (RMTU) and the Maritime Union of New Zealand (MUNZ) and management failed today and the unions have issued notice of an overtime ban from Saturday 7th September. ...
Queenstown Lakes District Council’s comments that it has applied for a consent to pollute waterways to avoid 'prosecutions by the Otago Regional Council' are unacceptable,’ Fish & Game New Zealand Chief Executive Martin Taylor says. ...
On March 15, the real world impact of online hate became abundantly, horrifically clear. As a shooter opened fire at two Christchurch mosques, the online image board 8chan anticipated, celebrated and amplified his killing spree. ...
Friday, 23 August: Government delegates from around the world, including New Zealand, are meeting in New York for the third of four meetings at the United Nations to agree a Global Oceans Treaty that could help to protect 30% of our oceans by 2030. Greenpeace ...
The excuses about a reportedly unwanted $57,000 payrise for Dunedin City Council CEO Sue Bidrose are laughable, says the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union. ...
The Auckland Ratepayers’ Alliance has launched the “Ratepayer Protection Pledge” committing to no more than 2% annual rate hikes over the next Council term, and has written to all Mayoral and Council candidates asking them to sign. The pledge will ...
This Saturday, Pakuranga Hunt Day at the Ellerslie Racecourse will see anti-horse racing protesters demonstrating at the corner of Ascot Avenue and Greenlane East. ...
Mayoral candidate John Tamihere will meet with Pacific Island leaders and community elders today at Puhunui Reserve in South Auckland to commit to a Pasefika Cultural Centre. ...
Cruel and invalid Forced Swim Tests carried out at Victoria University of Wellington, will be exposed at the University Open Day today, so prospective students can be warned about the flawed and unethical research being conducted at the institute. ...
The organiser of the annual YWCA Equal Pay Awards has expressed her disappointment with the latest Gender Pay Gap figure for New Zealand workers. The figure rose slightly from 9.2% in 2018 to 9.3% for the quarter ended 30 June 2019. ...
The Council of Licenced Firearm Owners (COLFO) is urging firearms owners to pass on information to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Attack on Christchurch Mosques now that the period for submissions has been extended to 27 September. ...
An application was filed in the Employment Relations Authority in Wellington today, seeking an injunction to prevent the Board of the New Zealand Nurses Organisation from removing the President from office. ...
The Government’s commitment to support literacy and numeracy training in the workplace is a strong signal from Government on recognising the importance of upskilling, reskilling and increasing productivity alongside their commitment to address the challenges ...
“The infrastructure sector sees a major role for the New Zealand Infrastructure Commission/Te Waihanga in lifting the nation’s sagging infrastructure performance,” says Paul Blair, incoming CEO of Infrastructure NZ. ...
The AA is calling on the Government to bring forward critical highway projects while time is spent properly developing the plans for a rapid transit system in Auckland. ...
Between 2015/16 and 2017/18, DHBs spent $280 million treating patients due to adverse drug reactions, reveals the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union in its latest briefing paper on health productivity . ...
The Pay Equity Coalition Auckland (PECA) is pleased the gender pay gap has decreased slightly. Statistics released today show the gap is now 11.9%, nearly 2 percent less than last year. ...
The Council of Licenced Firearm Owners (COLFO) is urging firearms owners to make sure they pass on any information they have to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Attack on Christchurch Mosques before submissions close tomorrow (Friday). ...
The big electricity companies consider solar energy “disruptive” and want pricing to suppress it. In contrast, advocates of local energy say that solar, energy efficiency, and other local energy solutions are the cheapest ways to reduce carbon emissions. ...
The Earthquake Commission and Shine Lawyers are delighted to announce that EQC has reached an agreement with the Gibling family, agreeing to cover the cost of repairs of remaining earthquake damage on their property. ...
Four months into the inquiry, the Royal Commission is gathering significant information and continues to receive valuable submissions from the public, from current and former State servants, experts and community groups. ...
While Fish & Game New Zealand is pleased to see Federated Farmers Environment Spokesperson Chris Allen say that 'we all want good, fresh water', he conveniently overlooks some key facts. ...
What: Wellington demo “Save the Amazon Forest/Salve a Amazônia!” When: Friday, 6 September 2019 from 12:30-13:30 Where: Embassy of Brazil in Wellingtona ...
Rt Hon Trevor Mallard, Speaker of the New Zealand House of Representatives, welcomes the visit of His Excellency Eduardo Ferro Rodrigues, President of the Assembly of the Republic of Portugal. ...
A cross political Mental Health and Addictions Wellbeing group will be launched on Wednesday 28 August hosted by Sir John Kirwan and Moe Milne (ONZM) who have both been at the forefront of our country’s often difficult conversations about mental ...
Confirmation that the government will be progressing an independent Parliamentary Budget Office is great news for democracy and transparency, Federated Farmers says. ...
At first glance, Simon Bridges’ strident opposition to the government’s proposal to establish an independent office to cost political parties’ election spending plans looks childish and petty. ...
Euthanasia-Free NZ is appalled that Parliament spent so little time debating Part 2 of the End of Life Choice Bill and voted to leave it full of holes. ...
Jordan Williams, a spokesman for the Auckland Ratepayers’ Alliance and its nationwide sister group the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union is slamming Auckland Mayor Phil Goff for his comments today that John Tamihere would need the Government’s support to ...
A ‘one size fits all’, inflexible and punitive regulatory regime for water quality just gets backs - and costs - up and most importantly will not work, Federated Farmers says. ...
Mediation yesterday between secondary principals and the government has resulted in a deal that the principals' negotiating team is recommending to its members. ...
Clubs New Zealand welcomes the decision of Justice Minister Andrew Little to put forward a bill amending the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act to allow all licensed premises to remain open for Rugby World Cup matches. ...
The Australia and New Zealand Ministerial Forum on Food Regulation has ordered a review looking at labelling of added sugars in food and drinks. An option under investigation is ‘a pictorial approach applied to sugary beverages / sugar-sweetened beverages’ ...
Labour market data released by Statistics New Zealand today indicates that a gender pay gap persists in New Zealand, despite improvement in some areas. ...
In the midst of the 6th Great Extinction Event the coalition, STOP Trashing Our Planet is urging voters to take full responsibility for the legacy we are leaving our children. ...
LGNZ will carefully consider the proposed National Policy Statement on Urban Development (NPS-UD) to assess if it meets the Government’s aim of enabling urban development or simply adds more red tape to the planning process. ...
The giant hand that captivated, delighted and disgusted the nation is now settling into its new Wellington home. For City Gallery Wellington’s blog, Spinoff arts editor Megan Dunn talked to Ronnie van Hout, the man who made Quasi.“Quasi is in the wrong place,” wrote art critic Warren Feeney in 2016, ...
At school camp, the children are banned from having phones, laptops, lollies, chocolate, money, cotton clothing or independent thoughts. They, are, however, allowed home baking – but it’s gotta be hearty. How hearty are you? We are packing for a school camp. If you’re thinking that the middle of winter is ...
Phil Goff’s rival has already pledged an 0800-Jacinda homeless hotline and an 18-lane harbour bridge. What’s next? The two most important people in the 2019 campaign for the Auckland mayoralty faced each other down on Wednesday night across the desk in the NZME debate: Bernard Orsman and Simon Wilson. Correction: it ...
Split Level View Finder: Theo Schoon and New Zealand Art is the exhibition that sparked a protest over issues of cultural appropriation and institutional representation. Theo Schoon is a divisive historical figure. But is his art any good? Martin Patrick reviews.British novelist L.P. Hartley once wrote that “the past is ...
Ahead of debuting her solo show at New Zealand Fashion Week, Korean-NZ couture designer Cecilia Kang talks about growing up ‘feminine’, being influenced by the LGBTQ+ community, and why an ‘administrative error’ at Fashion Week left her so shaken up. ‘I like something big,” says Cecilia Kang, gesturing to the giant ...
The Labour Party is distancing itself from one of its members who is strongly pro-Beijing and has caused controversy in the Chinese community by standing for local office in Auckland. ...
Faced with staff shortages, equipment failures, cancer risks, and a jump in critical calls that can leave them traumatised, some firefighters are wondering if it’s time to hang up the hose. Gareth Shute reports on the dissatisfaction inside Fire and Emergency New Zealand.The state of our nation’s fire service is ...
“She comes over. You’re my mother, she says. Yes, I say. I don’t know you, she says”: a mother and child seaside story by Wellington author Jan Pryor. Photo by Peter Black. ...
On Monday the government announced its new five-year strategy to reduce the Māori prison population. Emilie Rākete looks at another ‘kaupapa Māori’ prison initiative that degrades prisoners and asks if Corrections are capable of seeing it through.On August 19th, the Department of Corrections announced Hōkai Rangi, its new strategy intended ...
By Michael Andrew The Indonesian media is contributing to resentment and racism toward Papuans, according to a human rights researcher and former journalist. Andreas Harsono of Human Rights Watch Jakarta told Pacific Media Watch many Indonesian journalists either view Papuans as enemy “separatists” or deviants and their reporting tends to convey these ...
Analysis - The prime minister puts a stake in the ground over petrol prices, National balks at having its election promises costed and the government puts millions into helping the homeless. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Danilo Ignacio de Urzedo, PhD candidate, University of Sydney Record fires are raging in Brazil’s Amazon rainforest, with more than 2,500 fires currently burning. They are collectively emitting huge amounts of carbon, with smoke plumes visible thousands of kilometres away. Fires in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sean Docking, Post-doctoral researcher, La Trobe University Basketball fans around the world were recently sickened by the footage of NBA star Kevin Durant’s Achilles tendon rupturing during a game. But while many think it’s only elite athletes who suffer from Achilles tendon ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Bruce Mountain, Director, Victoria Energy Policy Centre, Victoria University The possibility of blackouts affecting half of Victoria has attracted plenty of attention to a document once read only by industry insiders and policy wonks: the Electricity Statement of Opportunities. The Statement, updated ...
George Clooney sold his tequila company for a billion dollars – but is the stuff any good? The Spinoff finds out. Imagine being so stupidly sexy you sneeze and sell a billion-dollar booze company. That’s what George Clooney did last year, flicking off the tequila business he started accidentally with an ...
The departure of "two Pākehā men" from the government's justice reform group will not hurt the quality of its final report, another member of the team says. ...
Combatting internet-related harm is being stymied by inter-industry disagreement and a lack of information about the extent and nature of the problem, a new report says. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Harcourt, J.W. Nevile Fellow in Economics and host of The Airport Economist, UNSW Amid the tributes to former deputy prime minister Tim Fischer and the stories of his authenticity, courage and quirky interests – like trains and military history – what ...
Current leader of the National Party, Simon Bridges.Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards – Is Simon Bridges really trying to channel Donald Trump? Or is he taking his cue from Scott Morrison? Or is he looking to emulate Boris Johnson? Whatever the inspiration, there’s been a clear change in the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra [embedded content]Michelle Grattan talks about the sad news of the passing of former Deputy Prime Minister Tim Fischer with University of Canberra Vice-Chancellor Professor Deep Saini. They also discuss Scott Morrison’s recent announcement about joining ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gabriel Crowley, Adjunct Principal Research Fellow, James Cook University In February, about 600,000 cattle were killed by catastrophic flooding across north Queensland’s Carpentaria Gulf plains. The flood waters rose suddenly, forming a wall of water up to 70km wide. Record depths were ...
Simon Day dined alone at Monique Fiso’s Wellington restaurant Hiakai, and discovered it was the perfect way to appreciate the meaning of this special food. “Would you like a few more minutes with your phone?” the waitress at Hiakai asked sympathetically as I mashed a final goodbye text to my wife ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emma Willamson, Adjunct Senior Research Fellow, Monash University Australia’s gender pay gap is diminishing, says a new report, but some contributors to it seem harder to overcome than others. For me, the finding hit close to home. The report, by KPMG for ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Te Tiriti o Waitangi: The Treaty of Waitangi by Toby Morris with Ross Calman, Mark Derby, and ...
Honey producer Comvita has confirmed a full year net loss of $27.7m with China market access restrictions and tougher regulations locally affecting the company's sales. ...
James Elliott realises John Tamihere's uncosted bridge proposal wasn't actually a metaphor, but a fine example of 'folks is mighty generous with money what they ain’t got'. ...
A new poem by Oamaru-born poet Nick Ascroft.SupermanHalfway up the ascent zigzagging from Royal Terrace to upper Stuart Street carrying four too-heavy grocery bags I begin to understand that I will not make it. My huffing personage – from the fingers, white with the strain, to a face the colour of rhubarb – will ooze into the pavement and roll slowly ...
The Real Pod assembles to dissect the week in reality television and real life, with special thanks to Nando’s.Sound the alarm, because it’s time for another absolute chaos pod. We’re talking haunted dolls in Waipu, we’re talking giant hands taking over Wellington, we’re talking soft serve cones dipped in powdered Milo. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tony Press, Adjunct Professor, Institute for Marine and Antarctic Studies, University of Tasmania This week, the ABC revealed that the Australian Defence Force wants to roll out military technology in Antarctica. The article raises the issue of what is, or is not, ...
New Zealand teacher aides say their pay reflects an outdated idea of what they do. Elizabeth McLeod hears from four TAs, and one parent, about the classroom realities they face every dayCleaning up poo, defusing violent situations, copping physical and verbal abuse: these are the realities of a teacher aide’s ...
The lanky sidekick from Jono and Ben journeys around New Zealand trying to solve small town problems. Does he succeed?Guy Williams, hardly a shy, retiring type, has been screaming out for his own vehicle for years. A loud, lanky, fearless comic, he’s spent nearly a decade in MediaWorks purgatory, sat ...
Ballot Box.Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards – The nature of New Zealand general election campaigns could be significantly changed with the proposed establishment of an “umpire” to adjudicate over political party manifesto policies. A suggestion has been put forward by the Government for the establishment of a parliamentary watchdog ...
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.New Zealand Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.Today’s content by Dr Bryce Edwards.Ihumātao Delphine Herbert and Dan Satherley (Newshub): Tainui to buy Ihumātao land – sources Danielle ...
Extinction Rebellion takes a tour of downtown Wellington to point out the coal industry stalwarts and ask why they’re still there in the face of a climate emergency. “There are coal companies in Wellington??”That’s the incredulous response every single time we mention taking the public on a tour of the biggest ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachel A. Ankeny, Professor of History and Philosophy, and Deputy Dean Research (Faculty of Arts), University of Adelaide The South Australian government recently announced its intention to lift the long-standing statewide moratorium on genetically modified (GM) crops, following a statutory six-week consultation ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vicki Sentas, Senior Lecturer, UNSW Law, UNSW Being strip searched by the police can be intrusive, humiliating and harmful. Typically, strip searches involve being required to strip naked in front of police officers, who often give the direction to “squat and cough”, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Louise Remond, Clinical Psychologist, University of Technology Sydney Hi, I was just wondering if something’s wrong with me because I’m never happy and never want to do anything and I’m getting really lazy and I really hate school. Thanks – Anonymous ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luke Zaphir, Researcher for the University of Queensland Critical Thinking Project; and Online Teacher at Education Queensland’s IMPACT Centre, The University of Queensland From as early as Grade 3 teachers start teaching children how to put across their own points of view. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Richard Holden, Professor of Economics, UNSW It’s four years since then Prime Minister Tony Abbott warned Australia had been heading to “a Greek-style economic future”. He was referring to what he said had been happening under the previous Labor government. When Labor ...
‘Become a nation of savers’ 
. . Former Police, Corrections, and Justice Minister in the previous John Key government, Judith Collins, has been ridiculed on social media after posting a comment on Twitter that was patently untrue; . Wrong!! National did not remove Prisoners’ ability to vote. Parliament voted through a Private Member’s Bill ...18 hours ago
Speaker Trevor Mallard was left to look after Jones, while his usual caretaker, Winston Peters, underwent surgery. A truly adorable scene from Parliament yesterday has gone viral, after Speaker Trevor Mallard cradled an extremely drunk Shane Jones in his arms while the House was in session. Loud “awwww”s could be ...1 day ago
Western media have defended their decision not to cover the fires so as not to give them any oxygen. Social media outrage continues to grow around the sentiment that mainstream western media is devoting too little coverage to an ongoing series of fires in the Amazon rainforest, and in doing ...1 day ago
A Long Time Ago, In A Parallel Universe Far, Far Away: The political journalist scratched his head in confusion. Only then did he notice the name of the building: ‘The Jacinda Ardern Presidential Library and Public Resource Centre’. Making his way inside to the information desk, he asked the librarian ...2 days ago
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Nothing from me tody - I'm off to Christchurch to pretend to be other people for a weekend. Normal bloggage should resume on Tuesday. ...2 days ago
Spark is bracing for a customer backlash as rugby fans all across the country struggle to get a picture on their wireless router. With the Rugby World Cup fast approaching, an elderly Taranaki couple are furious after being told that they still won’t be able to watch the tournament, even ...2 days ago
Several explosions have been reported across Auckland, as well-meaning environmentalists have already begun purchasing too much petrol Starting from next week, customers will no longer need a car to purchase petrol directly from the pump, a development that two major fuel providers are billing as an opportunity to help fight ...2 days ago
A new study claims to find that a mother’s exposure to fluoridated water during pregnancy may decrease the IQ of male children – but is it correct? (Photo: Getty Images) Anti-fluoride campaigners are promoting ... 2 days ago
Television advertising has a huge impact on our lives. Even if we don’t recognise that, we know it has to be true, since otherwise why would advertisers spend so much on it? Its significance, however, is greater than simply the influence it has on what we purchase and consume. It ...4 days ago
by Jan Rivers More than 30 years ago a Commission of Inquiry was held in New Zealand to investigate, amongst other things, whether women with cervical cancer were aware that they had been part of a research project and whether they were properly informed of the treatment options ...4 days ago
Everyone Wants To Be Fuhrer: When fascist groups are discussed, the image conjured-up in the minds of most New Zealanders is one of pathetic misfits. This negative impression is reinforced by the latter’s idiotic embrace of the swastika. Even in the second decade of the twenty-first century, the baleful legacy ...5 days ago
In the previous two posts, I laid out the context and set the theoretical framework to answer a question: whether indigenous economies should take the LEAP. This final part outlines ways to conceive of practicing mana motuhake within the existing legal system by carving out special jurisdictions that enable Indigenous ...6 days ago
Fully Informed? Labour’s 2017 promises raised expectations that were little short of revolutionary. Unfortunately, they were never adequately shaken through the fiscal sieve. The hard economic work was not done – and it shows. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s critics have long complained that her grasp of the way the New ...7 days ago
You cannot expect to pound communities into the ground day after day, year after year, decade after decade and just expect them to take it lying down. There’s a point at which the place will explode. And we’re faced with some very big ructions on both sides of the Atlantic ...1 week ago
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Going Down? Once truth and propaganda become fused in the minds of one’s followers, debate and discussion become redundant. If one’s opponents are all outrageous liars, then engaging with them in any way is pointless. Rather than waste its time, a political party should, instead, target all its messages at ...1 week ago
We need to fundamentally reframe our systems settings to address the drivers causing and underpinning inequality; structural change in systems especially financial. The Equality Network Hui was held in Wellington on 27 June 2019. The hui covered important topics such as child poverty; a living wage; taxation; public health; mental ...1 week ago
The views-per-page for some of my recent postings:Depressing, isn't it? Provide thoughtful and wise commentary on the mainstream of British politics and no-one notices. Make a passing reference to Tommy DICKHEAD Robinson in a thread title and you get hundreds of views. Write something about anti-Semitism and you get another ...1 week ago
The government has announced plans to move the Treaty of Waitangi and other taonga to a new site. Great news! So where are they going? Right next to the old one:The new plan will see a new 22,000-square-metre archive built on the former site of Defence House - the former ...1 week ago
Back in June, StatsNZ went public about a project to track population data on an hourly level by using people's cellphones. It wasn't as bad as it initially looked - they were receiving no individual data, only counts by suburb - but there was still a huge consent problem, so ...2 weeks ago
I did an interview on the TVNZ Breakfast Show about the situation in Hong Kong. I tried to frame the issue as a collective action problem between two sides with very different end games. The video is here. Because of time constraints we could not discuss the fact that the ...2 weeks ago
Image Credit: Wild Rose College A new study reporting the ranges of values for kidney and liver parameters in a healthy population is being actively misrepresented by anti-fluoride campaigners. The Fluoride Action Network’s (FAN) latest ... 2 weeks ago
Alone, Alone. All, All Alone: Will it be a good or a bad thing, when humanity’s bright blue spacecraft is stricken by the civilisation-destroying problem of Climate Change, that no Huston Control will be standing-by to rescue the crew?“WE HAVE A PROBLEM, HUSTON.” These were the words used by the ...2 weeks ago
Divided Loyalties: Can the Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, be relied upon? That’s what the boys and girls at Foggy Bottom and the Pentagon needed to be reassured about. Because, from the perspective of Washington, it’s looking more and more like Jacinda Ardern and her Labour Party comrades are getting ready ...2 weeks ago
This handy Queer Theory Glossary is from thetranswidow.com In case you’ve had trouble keeping up with the spate of new queer theory terms, here’s a handy glossary for your reference. Queer – A straight person with an interesting haircut. Non-binary/genderqueer – A chubby young female, typically 16-28, who has ...2 weeks ago
The winter grazing issue is becoming a highly sensitised one that I hope will not become so politicised that it delays solutions and results in the suicides of some very stressed farmers.Winter grazing has hit the headlines after a determined campaign, including the release of a video of some very ...2 weeks ago
The Green Part has been accused of lack of transparency in two recent situations. The first was the claimed media lockdown during Green's annual conference and the second was Julie Ann Genter's refusal to release a letter she had sent to Phil Twyford.I do get frustrated when journalist's succumb to ...3 weeks ago
Opportunities to dodge tax are shrinking with the completion of a new tax agreement with Switzerland, Revenue Minister Stuart Nash announced today. Mr Nash and the Swiss Ambassador David Vogelsanger have today signed documents to update the double tax agreement (DTA). The previous DTA was signed in 1980. “Double tax ...2 weeks ago
On Newshub Nation: Simon Shepherd interviews Children's Commissioner Andrew Becroft and international children's rights expert Laura Lundy ...14 hours ago
The giant hand that captivated, delighted and disgusted the nation is now settling into its new Wellington home. For City Gallery Wellington’s blog, Spinoff arts editor Megan Dunn talked to Ronnie van Hout, the man who made Quasi.“Quasi is in the wrong place,” wrote art critic Warren Feeney in 2016, ...2 hours ago
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has promised to help Muslim women who are interested in politics. ...9 hours ago
At school camp, the children are banned from having phones, laptops, lollies, chocolate, money, cotton clothing or independent thoughts. They, are, however, allowed home baking – but it’s gotta be hearty. How hearty are you? We are packing for a school camp. If you’re thinking that the middle of winter is ...16 hours ago
Phil Goff’s rival has already pledged an 0800-Jacinda homeless hotline and an 18-lane harbour bridge. What’s next? The two most important people in the 2019 campaign for the Auckland mayoralty faced each other down on Wednesday night across the desk in the NZME debate: Bernard Orsman and Simon Wilson. Correction: it ...17 hours ago
Split Level View Finder: Theo Schoon and New Zealand Art is the exhibition that sparked a protest over issues of cultural appropriation and institutional representation. Theo Schoon is a divisive historical figure. But is his art any good? Martin Patrick reviews.British novelist L.P. Hartley once wrote that “the past is ...17 hours ago
Ahead of debuting her solo show at New Zealand Fashion Week, Korean-NZ couture designer Cecilia Kang talks about growing up ‘feminine’, being influenced by the LGBTQ+ community, and why an ‘administrative error’ at Fashion Week left her so shaken up. ‘I like something big,” says Cecilia Kang, gesturing to the giant ...18 hours ago
The Labour Party is distancing itself from one of its members who is strongly pro-Beijing and has caused controversy in the Chinese community by standing for local office in Auckland. ...18 hours ago
Faced with staff shortages, equipment failures, cancer risks, and a jump in critical calls that can leave them traumatised, some firefighters are wondering if it’s time to hang up the hose. Gareth Shute reports on the dissatisfaction inside Fire and Emergency New Zealand.The state of our nation’s fire service is ...19 hours ago
“She comes over. You’re my mother, she says. Yes, I say. I don’t know you, she says”: a mother and child seaside story by Wellington author Jan Pryor. Photo by Peter Black. ...19 hours ago
On Monday the government announced its new five-year strategy to reduce the Māori prison population. Emilie Rākete looks at another ‘kaupapa Māori’ prison initiative that degrades prisoners and asks if Corrections are capable of seeing it through.On August 19th, the Department of Corrections announced Hōkai Rangi, its new strategy intended ...21 hours ago
By Michael Andrew The Indonesian media is contributing to resentment and racism toward Papuans, according to a human rights researcher and former journalist. Andreas Harsono of Human Rights Watch Jakarta told Pacific Media Watch many Indonesian journalists either view Papuans as enemy “separatists” or deviants and their reporting tends to convey these ...1 day ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Danilo Ignacio de Urzedo, PhD candidate, University of Sydney Record fires are raging in Brazil’s Amazon rainforest, with more than 2,500 fires currently burning. They are collectively emitting huge amounts of carbon, with smoke plumes visible thousands of kilometres away. Fires in ...1 day ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sean Docking, Post-doctoral researcher, La Trobe University Basketball fans around the world were recently sickened by the footage of NBA star Kevin Durant’s Achilles tendon rupturing during a game. But while many think it’s only elite athletes who suffer from Achilles tendon ...1 day ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Bruce Mountain, Director, Victoria Energy Policy Centre, Victoria University The possibility of blackouts affecting half of Victoria has attracted plenty of attention to a document once read only by industry insiders and policy wonks: the Electricity Statement of Opportunities. The Statement, updated ...1 day ago
Internet freedom advocates have slammed the Government for proposing censorship of online gambling sites. ...1 day ago
George Clooney sold his tequila company for a billion dollars – but is the stuff any good? The Spinoff finds out. Imagine being so stupidly sexy you sneeze and sell a billion-dollar booze company. That’s what George Clooney did last year, flicking off the tequila business he started accidentally with an ...1 day ago
As Indonesia cracks down on protests in the disputed West Papua territory, the Government has declined to condemn the violence. ...1 day ago
Combatting internet-related harm is being stymied by inter-industry disagreement and a lack of information about the extent and nature of the problem, a new report says. ...1 day ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Harcourt, J.W. Nevile Fellow in Economics and host of The Airport Economist, UNSW Amid the tributes to former deputy prime minister Tim Fischer and the stories of his authenticity, courage and quirky interests – like trains and military history – what ...1 day ago
1 day ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gabriel Crowley, Adjunct Principal Research Fellow, James Cook University In February, about 600,000 cattle were killed by catastrophic flooding across north Queensland’s Carpentaria Gulf plains. The flood waters rose suddenly, forming a wall of water up to 70km wide. Record depths were ...1 day ago
Simon Day dined alone at Monique Fiso’s Wellington restaurant Hiakai, and discovered it was the perfect way to appreciate the meaning of this special food. “Would you like a few more minutes with your phone?” the waitress at Hiakai asked sympathetically as I mashed a final goodbye text to my wife ...1 day ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emma Willamson, Adjunct Senior Research Fellow, Monash University Australia’s gender pay gap is diminishing, says a new report, but some contributors to it seem harder to overcome than others. For me, the finding hit close to home. The report, by KPMG for ...1 day ago
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Te Tiriti o Waitangi: The Treaty of Waitangi by Toby Morris with Ross Calman, Mark Derby, and ...1 day ago
Honey producer Comvita has confirmed a full year net loss of $27.7m with China market access restrictions and tougher regulations locally affecting the company's sales. ...2 days ago
James Elliott realises John Tamihere's uncosted bridge proposal wasn't actually a metaphor, but a fine example of 'folks is mighty generous with money what they ain’t got'. ...2 days ago
Fees for company directors are not keeping pace with their rising workload, according to a new survey. ...2 days ago
New Zealand teacher aides say their pay reflects an outdated idea of what they do. Elizabeth McLeod hears from four TAs, and one parent, about the classroom realities they face every dayCleaning up poo, defusing violent situations, copping physical and verbal abuse: these are the realities of a teacher aide’s ...2 days ago
The Warehouse Group has upgraded its full year profit expectations again. ...2 days ago
New Zealand-owned Kiwibank says it is winning more customers, demonstrated by a strong increase in deposits and lending. ...2 days ago
Dairy's huge role earning export dollars for New Zealand is facing a threat some say could bring it to its knees. ...2 days ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vicki Sentas, Senior Lecturer, UNSW Law, UNSW Being strip searched by the police can be intrusive, humiliating and harmful. Typically, strip searches involve being required to strip naked in front of police officers, who often give the direction to “squat and cough”, ...2 days ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Louise Remond, Clinical Psychologist, University of Technology Sydney Hi, I was just wondering if something’s wrong with me because I’m never happy and never want to do anything and I’m getting really lazy and I really hate school. Thanks – Anonymous ...2 days ago
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Because, as I have previously pointed out, the people in receipt of the bulk of the tax cuts are more likely to use them to pay down debt and increase savings. At the expense of the other 80% of taxpayers and any short-term fiscal stimulus.
Those tax cuts go to everyone. National dropped the larger tax cuts that would have targeted higher income earners.. Tax cuts always benefit the people who pay the most tax. Personally I think that is fair. [we’ve been through this time and again. look at the archives under ‘tax’. Cuts don’t have to favour the rich and they definitely don’t have to get infinitely larger as income rises. Labour’s cuts, the current legislated ones, cap out at 80K, National’s ones just get larger and larger the richer the taxpayer is, and National’s cuts for ordinary Kiwi’s are smaller than Labour’s. SP]
As for Kiwisaver. An option to save 2% of your weekly income is fair. And the employer giving extra I never liked and think its still too harsh. Where National went wrong was in making the changes where the income cut in to how much the government kicks into the scheme. Hopefully, they make that change when they legislate.
Well he does have a point, nothing like the state abandoning all responsibility to its citizens to to encourage self-reliance. Just a bit of a shame the people needing the most ‘incentive’ don’t actually have any money to save.
The tax cuts targeted the average taxpayer.
No they don’t. Forty percent of the cash goes to the wealthiest ten percent of taxpayers, while anyone with a family earning less than $44,000 a year pays more tax than they would have under Labour.
Oh, and any anyone in Kiwisaver is worse off, no matter what their income.
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2008/10/who-benefits-from-nationals-tax-cuts.html
I did say average. And why link me to two left blogs (one this very blog) who are clearly partisan when it comes to tax cuts and thus are not balanced.
[the numbers in the links are accurate. If you’re arguing they’re not just because the sources are leftwing, I hope you have some evidence. SP]
Ginger: why do you persevere with this practice of saying things that happen to be wrong, and then when you’re provided with evidence proving you’re wrong you claim bias, or, partisanship?
As Tane pointed out – quite succinctly I might add – “Forty percent of the cash goes to the wealthiest ten percent of taxpayers, while anyone with a family earning less than $44,000 a year pays more tax than they would have under Labour.” Both the links he provided provide you with are only “biased” stylistically, the numbers provided on both links come from National’s tax policy. If the same numbers were on a site like Kiwi-blog the writing around it would show “bias” towards right-leaning ideology. My point is: look at the numbers, not the rhetoric surrounding them.
All the recent history (several decades) shows Kiwis SPEND money and don’t SAVE it.
National cutting the saving capacity of Kiwisaver is no help to saving.
With interest rates expected to head to 4% to subsidise all the debt addicts….tell me again why people would save?
I’m not seeing it.
Actional giving tax cuts to the rich? My god, what is the world coming to.
In other news: China is a communist country that everybody wants as a friend and Russia does not hold fair elections and is about to change their constitution to let Putin back in. Such is the world.
I am going to make such a mint off them this year it is obscene. And I would give it all away to have labour/green in power right now. Go figure.
I like your input here Ginger. A lone, (semi 🙂 ) rational right voice in a sea of lefties.
I don’t agree with anything you say, but I figure that provide us something worth being annoyed by and typing about. Good on you!
Yeah, please don’t leave us Ginger, I don’t know what we’d do without you and those of your ilk. This site would be a left-wing hug-fest if people like you weren’t around.
Clearly not everyone is going to be able to save because some at the bottom need all their available income to meet their living needs. Kiwisaver wasn’t a complete fix for this, at the lower end of the income scale people were still unable to afford it, especially with a 4% entry. I’d prefer to see Kiwisaver reduced to a 1% (or even lower) entry to enable those at the bottom to join in. Employers shouldn’t be forced to match contributions, it makes it harder for those struggling just to pay the staff they have and raises the risk of having to lay off staff to keep their business running.
I think we need some sort of cap on how much the government contributes though, it can’t just be an open chequebook.
Tim: 1% is useless for retirement saving….unless you live to be 150 and don’t retire until you’re 120.
The tax relief being touted by National is NOT the solution to this problem for all its cost. In rough summery: it is a short-term and therefore short sighted solution to a long term problem. It will also leave NZ in a worse debt situation than before with a very low stimulatory effect due to the income bracket it targets. (i.e. High income bracket tax relief such as the “bush tax cuts” have the lowest stimulatory return)
See the graph at the end of this blog entry:
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2008104427/tax-cuts-ineffcient-stimulus
Kiwisaver was a long-term solution the core debt problem in NZ which is compacting this crisis on NZ and NZers who have taken on too much debt. Of course kiwisaver would not be a complete solution to this problem either – but it sure does help. In 10 years once savings have grown and compounded, it might be renamed “economy saver”.
I would have preferred more ingenious and targeted initiatives. Utilising industries that have or will have spare capacity – such as the building industry. More specifically using them to increase the growth potential of our country.
No offense but my first reply could have rebutted without editing inside.
The problem is not with the data in either of those left-wing blogs. Its the context you put them in. You say the tax cuts are taken away from lower income people to support the higher income. But tax cuts do that. Labour’s tax cuts do that. When you earn 80, 000. You don’t pay that 80, 000 dollars at the top rate. You pay a proportion at the top rate. Even if you said no tax in the first 20, 000 its still the taxpayers who earn the most money. Second, the tax cuts targeted average income earners. Its clear in the data that is what happened. Yes higher income earners get more benefit from the tax cuts. But that is because they pay the most taxes and they only pay a proportion of tax at that top rate. The rest is taxed at what other income earners are paying.
If it was really a tax cut for the rich. The top tax rate and threshold would have dramatically dropped. Ie. 30 cents for earners $50, 000+. National’s plan originally was to see a bigger tax cut for the rich. But because of economic conditions that was changed so they insured AVERAGE earners would get a tax cut. So while with National’s plan higher income earners get the most benefits. That is inherent in how tax is paid in New Zealand in the first place.
You can make your argument with families. That is a fair assessment. But National’s tax cuts benefit most income earners. Always higher income earners benefit from tax cuts more than others. But the tax cuts still delivered to the average worker. Thus was targeted to the average worker.
—-
Oh and thank you vinsin and Mr Magoo its nice to be insulted. You can say a lot about me but I typically don’t go round insulting people and its a pity you can’t do the same.
Oh and thank you vinsin and Mr Magoo its nice to be insulted. You can say a lot about me but I typically don’t go round insulting people and its a pity you can’t do the same.
Actually it was an honest compliment to an opponent about being stoic in an obviously hostile environment. But I guess you are so used to the insults on this site that you missed it?
Regardless. On to my disagreements with your point of view:
At the end of the day, tax cuts give cash back to workers. They do not have to be given back proportionately and in fact can be given in a almost completely flat across the board way. (e.g. first 20K tax free)
The effect of that policy on anyone earning more than 20K is that they ALL (i.e. almost all in full time work) get the same amount of tax relief. No differentiation at all.
The opposite scenario is to reduce the tax rate by a flat amount. (i.e. all tax reduced by 2% at all levels)
The obvious effect of this policy is to give the richest people a disproportionate amount of the total tax relief. This is because most people in NZ do not actually earn a heck of lot compared to the top 5-10%. (i.e. we are talking medians here, not averages!)
There are all sorts of interesting policies in between. Working for families being one of the most innovative I have seen in that the poorer and more “child strapped” you are, the more you get.
National have opted for a solution more towards the “2% for all” scenario, except that they offset the lower income people by cutting a few other things they may have been entitled to. Their package is quite complicated and as far as I can tell was mostly based on gettimg votes from those not covered by working for families and kiwisaver.
Now you may make an argument over whether the wealthy deserve more cash than the average person during this crisis because they “deserve it more”, but I would imagine that 70% of NZ would not agree with you.
I completely disagree with tax cuts as a solution to this problem. Tax cuts to anyone earning over 70k, triply so. I would remind everyone that we already got a tax cut, so a second is just not sensible at the moment. (some missed out, but the idea is that a cut stimulates growth, not make single and/or rich people feel good)
As I mentioned earlier, I would prefer that the money be spent generating jobs and smart infrastructure investment.
ginger. you’re right you can’t argue with the numbers, and the numbers for nationak’s cuts are 40% of the money going to the wealthiest 10%.
The major difference between national’s tax cut and labour’s is national will cut the top rate by 2% and not raise the threshold for the bottom 12.5% rate. Tax cut packages don’t have to be designed like that
so this is a national special huh sp!
You have to give it to him! – Ginge is persistent, or thick, or both!
How is it possible to NOT see that the tax package promised by National rewards the top income bracket AT THE EXPENSE of those on low incomes – the very ones that will be affected the most by the stricter mortgage criteria introduced by the Banks? And now English has the AUDACITY to somehow claim it, as if its a good thing and the result of National’s prudent management of the economy already!
Low income earners pay very little tax. Low income families are generously supported by working for families. Low income earners get a tax cut. Its not at the expense of them as they are supported several ways via state housing, accommodation supplement etc etc etc. Tax cuts will never work for the truly low income workers. They can only benefit via welfare transfers.
The mortgages are a whole separate matter. Labour didn’t do well in this area either. And I can’t see how low income earners could even come up with 5% deposit on a mortgage.
the sprout,
personal interest.. re your wee picture at top right comments.. is it a brussels sprout? I ask because recently the seeds I planted came up with the look of yours but rounded leaves and tips.. and I’m wondering just what I have got.. someone having mentioned they look like broccoli..
Low income earners pay very little tax
Yes, because they also earn very little. They also have a much larger propotion of their income devoted to “keeping alive and well” than wealthy people.
state housing, accommodation supplement
Most families do not receive these or live in a state house. Shocking, I know. The waiting list for state houses is 3+ yrs.
http://www.hnzc.co.nz/hnzc/web/rent-buy-or-own/rent-from-housing-new-zealand/waiting-list.htm
Over 4000 families in significant housing need or greater. Thats of those who bother to apply…
Tax cuts will never work for the truly low income workers.
The difference they make is far more pronounced for low income earners than for the wealthy. Come on now, you really think that 60/wk for someone on 150k per year is going to impact them more than 20/wk for someone on 30k per year?? Pleeease.
But I do agree with you on that point! Tax cuts are a “block of cheese” joke and will not really serve the public good in the end. As much as we like cash in our hand, it has a history of not being as useful to us as we had hoped compared to healthcare, savings, etc.
“And I can’t see how low income earners could even come up with 5% deposit on a mortgage.”
Welcome home loans. More state houses. Shared equity.
I am sorry, your argument here simply does not fly. In fact it barely stands up at all.
State Houses. Labour is opposed to selling state houses to tenants. Welcome home loans has numerous problems. The fact is there are very few houses that fall under its criteria. Shared equity is very limited and you still need to raise 5% deposit.
Haha, nice one, Ginge. All those families on benefits who don’t qualify for Working for Families are clearly a figment of my imagination.
Please, please respond with something about “they should stop spending the dole on booze and drugs”, I like that one.
Once again the Nats show how effective saying the agreeable things to certain audiences is. I dont think they can commit to saying the same thing time and time again.
Except: “Fresh” and “Ambitious” They sure like saying that.
QoT,
Please, please respond with something about “they should stop spending the dole on booze and drugs’, I like that one.
If I recall the HES breakdown from Statistics New Zealand correctly, it shows that lower income households spend proportionately more of their income on cigarettes and alcohol than the national average… take from that what you will.
QoT – Why are you talking about beneficiaries. No one is talking about beneficiaries. The only way they make more money is if their benefits rise or they get a job.
It amuses me that when people argue people who pay less tax should be given back more of it. 12% of the working age population in New Zealand pay 51% of the personal tax take. So who is being dealt a disproportionate hand here?
Gustavo,
“12% of the working age population in New Zealand pay 51% of the personal tax take. So who is being dealt a disproportionate hand here?”
Need more info. What percentage of NZ’s total wealth does that 12% control, what % of national annual income do they earn, etc and so on and so forth.
In any case, who here is arguing that the rich don’t pay a higher proprtion of the tax take?
Right ginge, because beneficiaries don’t pay tax … OH WAIT THEY KINDA DO, just like Real People.
Phil – as soon as you define “lower income households” and state the actual proportions involved, it’s just so much “Poor people are stupid and deserve to not be able to afford food for their children”.
Yes they do pa tax indirectly true. But I still struggle to see your point about beneficiaries. Since we’re talking about tax cuts for those who pay income tax.
Pascal. I do not have those figures at my fingertips, and I believe they fall outside the study’s parameters. But income tax levels should be set on the basis of income, and not wealth.
ginger. benefit payments are taxable income, you pay income tax on them
What Mr Magoo said on the first pass… hit it in one.
We seem to be damned to at least 3 years of one-dimensional quick fix approaches to long-term systemic issues.
Yikes – I feel for Ginger. It’s nice to get a little heated debate going, but lets be rational.
1. Low income families earn less, therefore spend proportionately more on consumption. Therefore they save less than those on higher incomes. This is always going to be true…can anybody suggest a way out of this?
I agree with Tim – maybe the threshhold for Kiwisaver should be dropped to 1% – yes its a tiny amount, but something is better than nothing no? 4% is really high for somebody on the average wage or lower…and we should be encouraging saving at all levels of society.
2. Beneficiaries pay tax through GST – consumption taxes and yes they don’t benefit from income tax cuts, seeing as they do not technincally work and pay personal income tax. I’m sorry, but that seems fair to me. If an individual is on the unemployment benefit I feel they shouldn’t receive the same advantages as somebody who works. Those on sickness or invalid benefits are an entirely different story. Maybe the problem is in lumping different types of beneficiaries into one category…when they all have different needs and incentives.
3. The response to National’s tax cut package was that the rich are benefitting more than the average kiwi…
The way I see it is that if you have natural talent or you worked your butt off to get a job that pays highly, why should you be penalised for that? Most of the people I know that earn over $60,000 have either spent a significant amount of time studying or working their way up to get there. They spent time and money to get where they are and to maintain that position. Why begrudge somebody for having money?
Also – note the difference between income and wealth. Two very different things…!
Lastly, what constitutes an average kiwi? Moreover define ‘rich’…
Steve Withers, yes 1% makes for a poor retirement plan but is nonetheless savings and in that respect is better than saving 0%. Also these people will receive superannuation.
Additionally Kiwisaver funds can also be used towards a house deposit (and contributions can be funnelled to mortgage payments) and in that respect the 1% could be more useful.