Camels, Eyes, Needles

24 comments on “Camels, Eyes, Needles ”

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1. Chuck 1

   3 March 2010 at 11:59 am

   Well looking at the last post comparing Clark and Brash by rob, maybe the last line should be changed to Clark instead if Key
2. Roger 2

   3 March 2010 at 12:38 pm

   This whole story is hilarious, Campbell Live did a piece on this where they go to Destiny’s head office. A church with a head office, brilliant. Maybe this shows that Aussies are smarter than us because it seems that New Zealand members of the cult are more willing to spend their income on rings and the Bishop’s mansion and Harleys than members in Brisbane.
   • Lanthanide 2.1

     3 March 2010 at 12:57 pm

     The church my parents go to has an office. It’s not a “head office” because they aren’t a chain with multiple congregations, but I don’t see what is so unusual about this.
   • Bright Red 2.2

     3 March 2010 at 1:04 pm

     The Catholic Church has a head office. Somewhere in Italy I think.
     • Roger 2.2.1

       3 March 2010 at 1:15 pm

       apologies for my lack of knowledge, I guess religion really is a business. The Bishop is just more blunt about this relationship.
3. tc 3

   3 March 2010 at 12:50 pm

   Ah the number of rich folk in the name of religion……..tamaki’s not alone as there’s plenty of others around.

   They just aren’t as stupid as to flaunt it and escalate the demands to fuel their massive egos……if Tamaki had of keep a lid on it this wouldn’t of happened.

   Slow news day, forgotten in a week…..a fool and his money translates to a person desperate for validation/meaning is a mark for the con job that is destiny.
4. Brett Dale 4

   3 March 2010 at 12:55 pm

   The sad thing is this loser Tamaki is ripping off people who cant afford it.
   • Bill 4.1

     3 March 2010 at 1:06 pm

     Just like the loser Torys then, yes?

     And then there is the charge of them being a ‘cash cult’…it all fits duntyathink?
     • BLiP 4.1.1

       3 March 2010 at 1:18 pm

       Well – the one act of violence by Jesus was when He threw the money-changers from the temple, silly ole New Zealand elects a money-changer Prime Minister.So, while Tamaki runs a t-shit shop from inside his “church”, John Key attempts to set Godzone up as an international financial hub.

       The similarities are unnerving.
       • Bored 4.1.1.1

         3 March 2010 at 1:25 pm

         I did wonder why the money lenders in the temple were left out of the headline. Tamaki and Jonkey probably work from the same verse “to those that have will be given: from those that do not have even what they do not have will be taken”…..
       • Deus ex Machina 4.1.1.2

         3 March 2010 at 1:56 pm

         The money-changers Jesus attacked in the Temple were actually Temple officials. The Temple had declared that money offerings to God had to be in shekels, the old Israelite currency, even though this had been replaced by the currency of the Roman occupiers. So devout Jews had to change their Roman denari into shekalim which, of course, only the Temple held. Accordingly the Temple could set its own rate of exchange. This was a direct attack by Jesus on the Temple itself and a highly political act.

         It would be the equivalent of Tamaki declaring that offerings to him HAD to be in old New Zealand Pounds, and selling old pound notes to his followers for the purpose at $10 each! And there would probably be those among his followers stupid enough to do it.

         Tamaki is merely following a tradition as old as religion. Screw the gullible.
         • SPC 4.1.1.2.1

           3 March 2010 at 11:57 pm

           One could remark, that anyone amongst us claiming the spiritual authority of God is a charlatan. The descendants of Jewish Kings had some status, as their ancestors story is in the bible as leaders of a nation under God, but this tradition allowed for others to use their symbolism for the purposes of power. Power to do good and power to do harm.

           Of course the meme of the money changing issue is over “purchase” of status/place before God and the related idea about the ability to buy a more worthy sacrifice than the poor.

           This has its follow-up in the story of the wealthy Samaritan and the leader of the followers of Jesus. Those who believed that Simon Peter had a certain “authority”, were expected to respect his leadership of the faith. The Temple priests used their status in the way they did and, in the end, the church was selling indulgences. The poor wanted a faith that included them as equals, and this was how to build a new religion – on their support. But once the religion is built on their backs, the true test of any faith and its leadership begins.
       • Mac1 4.1.1.3

         4 March 2010 at 12:14 am

         The driving out of the moneychangers from the Temple story is a very interesting one. Jesus used moral authority to chase them out, in my view. Doesn’t matter whether they were moneychangers or temple officials- they were in the wrong. One man alone chased them out, using physical force? My reading of this story is that one man’s moral force and authority, being in the right, drove away those who were in the wrong even though they were more numerous and protected by guards.

         This story gives me hope that moral persuasion, the force of being right, will defeat moneychangers like Key and all the ‘temple officials’. Those who Brash, one of the Temple elite, dismissed as voting for venal reasons, will vote them out. People need to see the venality, corruption, and greed of this government and its secretive backers. Decency and moral force will eventually prevail. Renewal and revival does take place. We are the agents.

         Captcha “ourselves’. Ourselves alone?
   • The Voice of Reason 4.2

     3 March 2010 at 1:17 pm

     Crikey, Brett! Name me a religion that doesn’t rip off the poor and vulnerable. The whole basis of organised superstition is to con the gullible into parting with their money or their labour to advance the earthly status of the chosen few. All Pope Brian has done is swapped a mitre and a cape for sunnies and leather jackets. It’s still the same scam.
     • Lanthanide 4.2.1

       3 March 2010 at 3:00 pm

       Well my parent’s church does a lot of community work, helping single mothers, troubled teens, mentally ill, drug addicts, victims of spousal abuse etc. You know, the poor and vulnerable, which they don’t rip off.
     • RedLogix 4.2.2

       3 March 2010 at 3:10 pm

       @TVOR,

       There’s isn’t a lot of daylight between your rhetoric about the nature of tithing and that of taxation. Both are essentially intended to be a transfer from the individual in order that the collective is empowered to act on behalf of all.

       The crucial element that validates the practise of tithing is that it must be voluntary, free from all undue pressure and inducement. The believer must clearly know where the money will be spent, and who will be accountable for it. It’s my feeling that Tamaki’s fundamentalist cult probably falls down on both counts… but that stands against Tamaki’s leadership… not the nature and purpose of sacrificial giving for the communal benefit.
       • Quoth the Raven 4.2.2.1

         3 March 2010 at 5:03 pm

         The essential nature of taxation is that it is coercive. Why is it so for you that the crucial element that “validates the practise of tithing is that it must be voluntary, free from all undue pressure and inducement” but taxation being by its very nature coercive is some beau ideal of society?
         • RedLogix 4.2.2.1.1

           3 March 2010 at 9:53 pm

           but taxation being by its very nature coercive is some beau ideal of society?

           Being an active member of a church/faith is essentially a matter of personal choice and conscience. By contrast everyone is resident of and a citizen of a nation whether they will or not.

           In a better world most people would happily pay tax with little to no coercion, but in the meantime I guess we just have to be realistic.
           • Quoth the Raven 4.2.2.1.1.1

             3 March 2010 at 11:28 pm

             Being an active member of a church/faith is essentially a matter of personal choice and conscience. By contrast everyone is resident of and a citizen of a nation whether they will or not.
             Well, that raises issues of consent to the state, but that’s too big an issue for now. So let me ask you this do you consider acts of initiation of force to be morally wrong?
5. RedLogix 5

   3 March 2010 at 1:02 pm

   This is what I always liked about the Steiner anthroposophist folk… the exact opposite of fundamatalist.

   Perhaps the post could have been titled… “Bucket, Tar, Brush”.
6. Bored 6

   3 March 2010 at 1:17 pm

   Why is anybody surprised ordinary NZers give money to Tamaki? Lets face it they also voted for Key.
   • the sprout 6.1

     3 March 2010 at 1:23 pm

     quite
7. Rex Widerstrom 7

   3 March 2010 at 5:16 pm

   Isn’t it the Bible that says something about a fool and his money? RTFM, reilgious people.
8. Craig Glen Eden 8

   4 March 2010 at 11:36 am

   Just thought I would say how I enjoyed RedLogix, Boreds, Lanthanides,DM, Blips postings, on this all quite thought provoking, Thanks, and I think we all agree Tamaki is a cult con all done in Jesus name aye.

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