Christchurch memorial service

Written By: - Date published: 7:03 am, March 18th, 2011 - 181 comments
Categories: disaster - Tags: ,

A memorial service will be held in Hagley Park today to pay tribute to victims of the February quake. Events begin at 10:30am, with the service starting at 12:30, and two minutes silence at 12.51pm. TVNZ has a good page on practical details here.

I think it’s fair to say that the idea of the service has strongly polarised opinion. Those reacting negatively see it as a glorified photo-op for John Key, being held far too soon, on a schedule set by the visit of Prince William. The following opinion piece by Vicki Anderson in The Press has created a bit of a sensation:

Christchurch is grumpy

People in Christchurch seem to be experiencing a mass episode of PMT (post magnitude tension). Mind you, there’s a lot to be tense about. Homes lost, jobs lost, everywhere you look life is tough. No to the Rugby World Cup. Yes to a grandiose memorial service happening too soon. Nuclear terror in Japan. Moon man predictions. My head hurts.

The thing that makes me feel particularly upset is the national memorial service in Hagley Park on Friday. Just who is this memorial service for? It’s not for Christchurch. It’s not for the families who lost loved ones in the February 22 quake.

It’s a grandiose, empty gesture starring so-called V.I.Ps – Prince William, Prime Minister John Key, Aussie PM Julia Gillard, Tony Abbott and presumably other assorted boring people in suits. …

Some say it is just too soon for a memorial service and I agree. Life is still too raw here for us to have a memorial. With a memorial comes some form of closure – we’re just not in that place yet. To the rest of New Zealand and visiting dignitaries the earthquake might be old news but it’s not to us, the ones living through it. …

Looking on the bright side I guess the homeless, sorry, displaced, will be able to go to Hagley Park to finally get to use a toilet. Some affected colonials might even get a glimpse of Prince William’s rapidly decreasing hairline. …

A more fitting service for Cantabrians would be held on February 22, 2012. When we have had the time and opportunity to get over current hurdles.

These very important people visiting Christchurch to gawk at our damage would be better served spending their time trying to get to the bottom of how it can be that some people here have had their buildings, their livelihoods, their wordly valuables demolished without any notice or opportunity to salvage anything of their former lives.

On Friday the two minutes of silence at 12.51pm will give news organisations – this memorial requires media accreditation – the perfect opportunity to zoom the lens in on the grief stricken. Some untalented people will surely be inspired to create a tribute song, using the suitably traumatic footage of the day the nation stood still, again. Endless repeats of crumbled buildings will adorn the 6pm news. …

It’s like Band Together – Concert for Canterbury, but this is the memorial version. This is Wail Together – Concert for Elsewhere.

A strict alcohol ban will be in place for the event, and there will be a large number of police officers and security guards on site.

Does this sound like a memorial to you?

Of course not everyone agrees. One of the comments in response to the above piece:

[…] you are entitled to your opinion, really you are. But as someone who lost family, who lost friends… I need this memorial. I need this day off to say goodbye properly – because I passed up funerals to stay at work and support my business, who were paying out enough in bereavement leave. So I will be in Hagley Park on Friday, with my head held high, remembering what we’ve lost, and looking to the future

Both negative and positive opinions are likely widely held:

3 News spoke to several Christchurch residents who said Friday is too soon for a memorial. They say there are still funerals which need to take place and bodies which haven’t been identified. They say they’d be more comfortable having a memorial in a few weeks – even months.

“For many people there is a great need to grieve. There is a great need to share the load that they are carrying right now, so you have to weigh all of that up,” says Mr Parker. “It could be up to two years before there is final identification.” Those who aren’t ready to grieve are being asked to respect those who are, and are being assured that this won’t be the only memorial.

While tending myself to share the views of Vicki Anderson, this is surely time to acknowledge our diversity, and that this event will mean very different things to different people. If it can help some in Christchurch come to terms with loss and grief, then well and good, it will have served some useful function. Kia kaha Canterbury.

181 comments on “Christchurch memorial service”

  1. lprent 1

    I was thinking about this after waking up early today. It does feel like a photo op for Key and Windsor with bugger all relevance for anyone else.

    I read Vicki Anderson’s piece yesterday afternoon, and then reflected that I can’t remember a comment here supporting the photo op. That includes from either the people of Christchurch who have been catching up on blogging in the last few weeks or from the various right and centrists here.

    Admittly I have not been looking for it because I find the photo op to be irrelevant. But in this fractious community not having any support is rather surprising.

    • higherstandard 1.1

      Maybe just maybe Key and Gillard and William and Goff and everyone else attending the service in Christchurch and around the country are thinking more about offering support and their prayers to the Christchurch region than photo opportunities.

      Perhaps the partisans and political tragics who hang out here and throughout the blogosphere could STFU for 24 hours and extend some goodwill.

      • lprent 1.1.1

        The thing that got to me in Vicki’s piece was this…

        Difficulties with road access, 78 toilets and 10 ”large urinals”, V.I.Ps speeches, plants which were to be displayed at the cancelled Ellerslie Flower Show will be used as part of the service and trotting out survivors’ families to sit centre stage. It’s not a memorial. It’s a side show.

        If those toilets are portable, then they’d be better off out in the community. It is 4 weeks and there is still a severe shortage of portaloos around various suburbs. It keeps showing up in the MP’s and everyone else’s reports.

        The lack of safe sanitation is a major issue in public health. Wasting toilets to support a photo op is just stupid.

        Something like this would be better done when the basic public health standards has been achieved.

    • big bruv 1.2

      A bit like Sir Ed’s funeral was a photo op for Clark aye Irpent?

      Still…once again the nastiness of the Labour left comes through, 100,000+ Cantabs turned up, that is an awful lot of votes coming the way of the Nat’s come November.

      All you need to do is keep that odious female Street in attack mode and Canterbury could be a clean sweep for the Nat’s.

      • BLiP 1.2.1

        How fleeting your memory. It was John Key who attempted to exploit Sir Ed’s funeral by issuing a press release decrying the fact that the Royals weren’t sending a representative. Remember that, shithead?

        • big bruv 1.2.1.1

          Feeling a bit desperate are you Blip?

          The only one who exploited Sir Ed’s funeral was Clark, she was the one who made sure she was front and centre when the camera’s were there, and if you remember, she was also the one who just had to fly back from New York to do her very own bit of disaster tourism.

          See Blip, you cannot have it both ways, either Key was doing the job of a PM and leading the nation in a time of grief (which he undoubtedly was and this is what gets right up your nose) or he was using the ceremony as a photo op, either Clark was showing her respects as a PM should at Sir Ed’s funeral (although she could have do so without taking such a prominent role in what was a FAMILY funeral) or she was using the death of Sir Ed as a photo op.

          Even you cannot spin that Blip, even you will have to admit that you are simply a nasty little socialist who will use any event at all (irrespective of how tragic) to score cheap political points, or………………you could just say you got it wrong and admit that Key has done a great job leading our country through a national tragedy.

          • mickysavage 1.2.1.1.1

            Ah the old RWNJ defence

            If Key and co are caught absolutely cold then the only thing you can do is dig into history and locate an event and shout and scream “oh but Helen/Michael/David Lange/Norman Kirk/Walter Nash/Peter Fraser/Michael Joseph Savage did the same thing”. It does not actually matter if they did or did not do it. Making noise is the only objective.

            Just do it …

            And BTW spitting out the word “Socialist” will make you feel better …

            • big bruv 1.2.1.1.1.1

              Is that the best you can come up with Micky?

              You know I am right, you know there was no difference between the two events but yet you still try and convince the terminally stupid (aka Labour voters) that there is a difference between the two.

              Tell me Micky (cos you are actually one of the few intelligent people from the left) how do you justify the shocking hypocrisy/dog whistling?, I know deep down that you must be uncomfortable with those who seek to attack Key for doing the very same things that dear ex corrupt leader used to do.

              As it happens I think that both Sir Ed’s funeral and todays service were events that our PM had to play a part in, and yes, of course there are/were going to be pictures taken, that is part of the job.
              It is no wonder that Labour are sinking in the polls, you people have totally lost touch with the public.

              • Kia ora BB

                I just do not remember Helen organising the funeral for Sir Ed whereas today’s gathering was started and supported by Smile and Wave.

                I do think that today was too soon. The anniversary of the day itself should be a holiday but today was not the day.

              • Armchair Critic

                As it happens I think that both Sir Ed’s funeral and todays service were events that our PM had to play a part in, and yes, of course there are/were going to be pictures taken, that is part of the job.
                Yeah, pretty much. I don’t think either of them did a great job (though I liked Key’s speech today – for once he didn’t sound like he’d been drinking), both just did their jobs.
                No sure how much of the original post you actually read, there are a few differences between Hillary’s funeral and the Christchurch memorial. The valid criticism is about the timing of the memorial. Clark didn’t have the option to delay the funeral to a more appropriate time, for obvious reasons. Key could have waited until all the sites were cleared of the missing.

          • BLiP 1.2.1.1.2

            So, Big Bludge, no denial or even refutation that John Key exploited Sir Ed’s funeral for political ends. Instead, just more septic bile from your black heart That was all tripe. Just like your girlfriend Melissa Lee, you got it wrong about who’s playing politics. Again.

    • infused 1.3

      Couple of things. The service was announced before the Royals became involved. Secondly, I’ve been on a course the last 3 days in which there were two people frmo Christchurch. They were very emotional about the whole thing. I was of the view of it’s way too soon, after speaking with these people and seeing the emotion, I now understand they need it.

      Good job on the point scoring.

    • Swampy 1.4

      But isn’t this a community mostly of people from one end of the political spectrum? and that happens to be the spectrum of people who loathe the current PM?

      So it’s all about people believing Key should not get an opportunity for a bit of publicity in election year?

      And if the boot was on the other foot – I doubt their would be one word against it

      • Colonial Viper 1.4.1

        And if the boot was on the other foot – I doubt their would be one word against it

        Boot wouldn’t be on the other foot because few politicians would be as crass as Key as to hold a 3 week (!) commemoration ceremony, and even before some families have had a chance to receive loved ones bodies, yet alone bury them.

      • lprent 1.4.2

        The authors are from one broad wing of the poliitical spectrum.

        The commentators sure as hell are not – they come from all over the spectrum. The group we exclude are trolls, not political beliefs. We don’t get too many consistent commentators from the extremist right but that is more because of their behavioral habits in attacking the existance of the site rather than their political beliefs.

    • Alpha Sud 1.5

      Bit like how Helen’s tour of Christchurch was just a photo op for her then was it?

      • Maynard J 1.5.1

        What, for her to get votes in…oh wait.

        moron.

      • lprent 1.5.2

        Helen was over here as she is every 3-4 months to spend time with Peter and family. So she went to look to see, just as she did in the Aussie flood damage on the way out. I understand that in both cases she offered her advice to the governments.

        Now I can understand that you are still pathetically locked into the last election – seems to be a common issue amongst the RWNJs. But exactly how does Helen going to ChCh constitute a photo op? Her position at the UNDP is appointed and doesn’t deal with first world countries except as donors.

        I think that you really need to get over your fear of strong woman..

  2. Kaplan 2

    I do not begrudge those that want to attend, but I won’t be going myself.
    For me it is too early, we are still dealing with the day to day effects of the earthquake here and it just seems cheap to go and commemorate a disaster that is still on going.
    I also worry about what an influx of people in to the town is going to do.
    Personally, I would like to see an event take place on September 4th this year.

  3. Pete 3

    If it can help some in Christchurch come to terms with loss and grief, then well and good, it will have served some useful function. Kia kaha Canterbury.

    Exactly. This day should be for those in Christchurch who can and will get something from it in support of them and their plight. People. Not politics.

    • Tigger 3.1

      Well there are lots of things you could argue would “help some in Christchurch come to terms with loss and grief” but should we do them?

      This memorial is dishonest, it’s spun as being for Christchurch but it is for Key.

    • Marty G 3.2

      I hear what you’re saying but silence is political too. Meekly acquiescing to something you disagree with because you don’t want to be ‘political’ is as much a political action as speaking against it. And it’s a more insidious, dangerous form of politics because it means legitimate debate and disagreement is stifled in favour of whatever the government of the day says.

      just yesterday, pete, you were saying you wanted more democracy. you can’t, then, expect people not to voice their opinions.

      • Pete 3.2.1

        I’m not expecting people not to voice their opinions. My opinion is trying to label this as a Key photo-op is nauseating petty politics.

        There is never going to be a best time for this sort of thing. Some will appreciate it now, some would prefer it later. I’m sure there will be more for them later.

        I’ve already seen the positive effect of the Prince’s visit – not for me, but for some of the people in Christchurch. I respect their right to enjoy that, as I respect the right of some to get something out of today, as I respect the right of some to think today isn’t the right time for them. I don’t respect the political point scorers.

      • Gus 3.2.2

        Just accept that you will never get people to agree and thats fine because we are humans and have free will to voice our differing opinions in this Country. But for the sake of what is left of the credibility of the Labour party shut the fuck up about moaning about Key and photo ops. It makes us look like such a bunch of mean spirited pricks and opens us up to the same crap over HC private (but televised visit). When will you learn. Build everyone up and we will win. Cut everyone who doesn’t agree with our viewpoint and will will surely lose. Have some fucking dignity.

      • Swampy 3.2.3

        People on this blog complained when Key went off to Greymouth to do his bit after Pike River. Basically I would guess most of the opposition is really political dislike of John Key.

  4. RedLogix 4

    I’m uncomfortable politicising this. At the same time I think it’s too soon. Too many raw emotions, too many folk who have more immediate, conflicting priorities.

    In six or twelve months time it would have been a unifying, healing event.

    • Pascal's bookie 4.1

      The problem I see with it is that they decided to style it as the Big Official Memorial with its Day Off and all the Big Names Will be in Attendence, Come one Come all.

      I think that some sort of event at this time has its place, enough people seem to want one. But I think the way they have done it confuses what could be a first step in the healing process with something further along in the process than where many people are at.

      Memorials are where we remember historical events, and this is still current events. I think it’s that message fail that is causing the angst. If you don’t feel up to a big event at this point, it’s unfair to be made to feel bad about that because you are ‘spoiling the big day’ or that there is a duty to go because it is ‘The Memorial’.

    • Tigger 4.2

      Holding the ceremony now was a political decision. It’s already politicised. The right will try to squash criticism of it because that’s ‘indecent’ but that’s just an attack line.

      Here’s my key test: why is there a groundswell, including locally, against this memorial. Any appropriate memorial wouldn’t have attracted such robust criticism. This isn’t fringe people saying it shouldn’t be held. These are people in Christchurch and people who’ve been affected by it.

    • Ron 4.3

      I undrstand your discomfort at politicising the event. That’s what Ket et al are relying on. Any criticism is “petty politics”.

    • “I’m uncomfortable politicising this.”

      I understand your reticence, RL, but saying that is like saying about the earthquake “I’m uncomfortable ‘tragedising’ this.”

      The earthquake was a tragedy. This memorial service is a political event, just in the same way that ANZAC Day, Labour Day, Queen’s Birthday and all the ‘Provincial Days’ are, similarly, political events. Such days, perhaps, should not be ‘party political’, but that doesn’t stop them being quintessentially political events with political repercussions and functions – e.g., maintenance of public support for, and legitimation of, the nation state and its established authorities. The political by no means halts at the borders of deeply distressing human experiences. In fact, it is where the political has its primary home, arising as it most often does from conflict over who suffers and why.

      I think what you really mean is that you don’t want to upset further people who are already upset and suffering. That is a completely understandable, human and humane response, which I share.

  5. Colonial Viper 5

    Meaningless, premature symbolism.

    Some families do not even have their loved ones’ bodies in the ground yet.

    • aj 5.1

      I agree with CV

    • Luva 5.2

      Far from meaningless. It might be for you and it might be for some locals. But the huge number of people that turn up to the memorial today will demostrate to you cv that today has a hell of a lot of meaning

    • Swampy 5.3

      Some never will. The 29 Pike River dead being an obvious comparison.

      • Colonial Viper 5.3.1

        Yes Swampy, some will never receive their loved ones bodies, except there are still a dozen or two in the morgue in this case, not yet returned. So slightly different.

  6. I’m glad Key and Parker have secured more airtime with this event. I was starting to miss their blanket PR and photo op coverage. I hope Bob wears his hi vis and Access All Areas laminated tags eh. So’s i can pick him out from the rest of the nobs and send some extra love his way.

    Can’t wait to see the coverage. Key is such an inspiring and powerful orator, so eloquent and empathic. I hope Gerry the hut gets to say his piece too. He’s so on the ball that man. A tireless one and a half man bureaucratic wrecking machine. All that and the chance to see Prince Wills in the flesh ?

    Given the choice of groceries and gas for the week or blowing it on a day trip to Hagley to meet our betters. I know what i’d rather choose…A pic with His Royal Highness and the Rights Honourable Smile n Wave and Sideshow, with maybe Gerry the Hut and Blinglish throwin up sets in the background !

    The comfort that would bring in times of distress were i still a Churtown resident goes beyond words…

    …no really !!!

    • ZeeBop 6.1

      Packer is the face of the Earthquake, and his retirement at the next council election will be closure for many, closure that the farce in the park today is not providing. Elections
      are all about what you are going to do for me, not what you have done, or could not do.

    • Pete 7.1

      Hey Daveo – look at whether anyone turns up today.

      There is still a lot of stress and pressure in Christchurch, it’s a very difficult time for many people there, I don’t care if they vent about this or anything else, that’s understandable.

      I don’t understand why other people, in the comforts of their non-wrecked homes in non-wrecked towns and cities, try to make political hay while the sun hasn’t shone well on many in Christchurch. Let those who want to have their day in the sun.

      I was surprised about the timing – I guess it’s to fit with the prince’s schedule – but it’s not about me. I won’t be watching it, if I was in Christchurch I might not care about going. But it’s not about me.

      Maybe they should have a proper memorial later in the year, 25th November? Then you’d have something to really moan about.

      • Armchair Critic 7.1.1

        look at whether anyone turns up today
        It’s the only show in town. No work, no school, no trip to the beach/river (polluted), no wander around the shops (they’re shut, and in any case most wallets are not overflowing) etc. The alternative is what?
        Of course people will turn up. It’s that or stay at home and continue the clean up. I’m picking many will pick the latter option.

      • lprent 7.1.2

        25th November?

        The day before the election?

        Don’t you think that would cause problems for all of those people doing last minute campaigning and the election workers trying to organize the booths?

        Not to mention all of the fuss about it being made overtly political by placing a national photo op for the PM at the end of a political campaign?

        Pleeze check your preferred date 🙂

        • Pete 7.1.2.1

          Ah, that date was deliberate, I’d accept that a few political moans were justified then.

          I wonder, if Labour win the elction and there is an expected occasion next February 22, I wonder if Phil would stay in his office that day so he doesn’t appear to be photo-oppong.

          • lprent 7.1.2.1.1

            I think that the point being raised here is that it is just too soon after the quake to put in the amount of effort required to run this event.

            There are still many people in Christchurch needing some basics like toilets, water, habitations are uninhabitable, and even some still missing power. So they’re putting 78 bogs at this event while there has been a real shortage of portable toilets? Why is this event the priority for allocating scarce resources?

            I’d be less irritated (and I suspect so would many people in Christchurch) in Feb 22 when presumably they aren’t crapping in their garden, are able to have a shower, and have had time to bury their friends and family.

            That strange sense of priority is the issue. To me, and obviously many people in Christchurch, that is why the question of if it is just a photo op is an issue.

            • Pete 7.1.2.1.1.1

              I’ve got no argument withn most of that, certainly priorities have to be considered – but so does moral. They don’t have much to enjoy there at the moment, and not much to look forward to, a lot of sport has had to move out of town (not just rugby).

              This may or may not improve moral overall, but it’s an attempt to do that. It could be called a photo op for thousands.

              Anyway, whether it’s an inspirational idea or the wrong thing at the wrong time, it’s happening, so I hope some people get something positive out of it.

              There’s something positive for me, I’m traveling tomorrow (passing through Christchurch) so won’t be checking out all the blog grizzles about the PM’s speech – I predict that’s what will be happening. Not lunatics out under a full moon, it will be just another daily excuse.

              Oh bugger, it’s already started, someone else can see in the future.

              • felix

                The fact that you missed the start because you were here being political rather puts the lie to all your pious sanctimony about others politicising the day.

              • Rosy

                Moral – of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethnical: moral attitudes.

                Morale – emotional or mental condition with respect to cheerfulness, confidence, zeal, etc., especially in the face of opposition, hardship, etc.: the morale of the troops.

                Sorry to be pedantic but as you wrote moral twice it wasn’t a typo… you were either looking to improve moral(s) – not a bad aim, or you meant morale.

            • Swampy 7.1.2.1.1.2

              The toilets they put there can’t be used in suburbs. I believe they are containers of multiple toilets specifically designed for large events which are plumbed into a separate in-ground holding tank.

              practically every house outside the CBD has power as of now.

              • lprent

                Good to know. I suspect that they could use them where though – large retirement sites, university, construction worker camps, army camps, etc.

                Also good to see the overnight stream of comments return (never thought I would say that). You’ll have to tell us how your earthquake went.

                Only regular I haven’t seen online from ChCh is Nick S

                • Swampy

                  Actually the story as of now (quoted in the Star I think) is that there are more portaloos now in the city than are actually needed, because of the distribution of chemical toilets to households. In other words no one is really being deprived.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Again its an issue where you can say no one is being deprived, but unless someone has done a systematic survey of each suburban area, you do not really know.

  7. ianmac 8

    John Key accompanied the Royal Prince to the West Coast. It seemed curious to me that when TV 3 news glimpsed him walking behind the Prince the camera jerked slightly to put Key out of shot. Have they been told to down-play the Key part, because people are starting to resent the photo-op label? Will watch the play today during the memorial.

    I don’t quite understand memorial services anyway. Loss is rather more personal than public.

  8. mike 9

    When will the luck run out for these hollowmen and their disgusting PR hobbits? I wanted a howling so’wester but it’s turned out a perfect day! Bah!

  9. outofbed 10

    So “grandiose empty gesture” hits the international news wires

    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/nz-quake-service-grandiose-empty-gesture-20110318-1bzhk.html

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/17/prince-william-christchurch-earthquake-damage

    “Looking on the bright side, I guess the homeless, sorry, displaced, will be able to go to Hagley Park to finally get to use a toilet. Some affected colonials might even get a glimpse of Prince William’s rapidly decreasing hairline.”

    • Swampy 10.1

      The first link gets redirected to something much less political. The SMH must have seen through the earlier negative condemnatory article, good on them.

  10. Bill 11

    From todays Guardian

    Prime Minister John Key will also be at the service, along with soprano Hayley Westenra, who is from Christchurch and will be singing during the event.

    Reads to me like a humble comma has saved us from a truly awful spectacle.:o)

  11. ianmac 12

    Actually does anyone know who decided on the Memorial Service? Parker? CCC? or was it another edict from the PM’s office? (Nanny State? We in Wellington are doing this for your own good Christchurch.”)

    • Lanthanide 12.1

      The first reports I recall was from Key/Government talking about it.

    • Bright Red 12.2

      it was the gummit.

      I think Parker initially said it was too soon, or had said a later date would be better before the date was announced.

    • Hilary 12.3

      Seems the timing came from PM’s office, after someone realised Prince William would be nearby in Oz. Apparently the PM was advised against having it so early, but probably the PR value of royalty over rode any other concerns.

  12. Speaking Sense to Unions 13

    I take it Labour will be boycottting then if this is just a photo op.

    [lprent: Why would r0b or the people commenting here be speaking for the Labour party? You’ve read our about haven’t you? And you were warned about this under another alias in April last year.

    So I must insist on an full and clear answer or retraction because this sounds like a repeated trolling offense to me. ]

    • Tigger 13.1

      Labour can’t win. Don’t go or go they’re damned. Going is the smarter move.

      Same with any of us – they’re allowed to disagree with the day and still turn up and respect that it’s taking place.

    • Speaking Sense to Unions 13.2

      I can’t see where I was asking anyone to speak on behalf of anyone else.

      [lprent: Bullshit. You were implying it because no-one here had even mentioned Labour, and you have a track record of trying to associate this site with Labour. It was how I interpreted it, and that the moderators viewpoint is the one that counts.

      Banned until November 27th – because I really can’t be bothered moderating idiots (trying to lawyer a moderator?) between now and then. ]

      • Speaking Sense to Unions 13.2.1

        seems a bit arbitray to me, you could take it that I was making a distinction between The Standard and Labour as Goff is attending so he might not think this is just a photo op in contrast to this post.

        Or he could think that and be attending anyway. Whatever, people can comment without having to feel they need to represent Labour.

        [lprent: That is the nature of moderating. It is a judgement on some basis of fact and evidence that eventually requires an arbitrary judgement of intent. If you’d wanted to say your explanation above then you should have said it in the first instance rather than using a open-ended statement trolling tactic. Since you left your statement open-ended, then as a moderator I took a viewpoint on it and called you on it.

        You then chose to not put up the explanation above (which would probably have been acceptable), but chose instead to put up a ambiguous lawyer style non-answer in the chance I gave you to explain yourself. You just got banned for stupidly lawyering rather than explaining, and you should know better – you’ve been around this site for a while. ]

        • Speaking Sense to Unions 13.2.1.1

          I genuinely was not asking anyone at the Standard to speak in behalf of Labour. However, I can see how it has come across like that.

          [lprent: Ok – you’re haven’t been too troll like over the years and your content is adequate. I can accept that. Dropped to a week for wasting my time. I’d suggest that you treat warnings from moderators as opportunities to change behavior rather than a reason to make a smart-arse comment. ]

  13. Rev Dr Terry Creagh 14

    Key has been and still is offering the Christchurch people premature resolution to their grief. First the people, especially those most deeply affected, must be allowed time and space to work through the many phases of grief essential before contemplating any kind of future (especially the blissful type of future that our shallow (but “prayerful” ha ha) Prime Minister promises. Present promises will be about as effective as ever so many of his previous “promises” have been(nothing doing once the worst is over and the public pays. What is the betting the service will be led by pompous bishops and other church leaders. Key and Wills – what a huge Tory photo-op (with international television coverage at that).

    • Swampy 14.1

      Yes, church leaders. I presume you are one of them, or have been previously. I don’t see a problem with having leaders of churches involved in a service, do you?

  14. Pete 15

    There’s an accidental plus re the timing of today’s service. Christchurch was mostly overshadowed by the multiple Japan disasters. This has helped draw attention back to Christchurch, where there is still a hell of a lot to do, many problems to work through, and many people have a lot to cope with.

    Christchurch needs our support, still. Not our squabbling.

  15. Chris Heenan 16

    THE SUFFERING PEOPLE OF CHRISTCHURCH
    Reading the news and listening to the news it’s becoming obvious that this memorial service is becoming what one news commentator called ” a great outdoor occasion” What self-centered, self seeking ,self deluded leader dreamed up this travesty of a memori…al service. It was obvious from the start that it would turn into a media fest. There are radio stations drumming up support making it sound like concert in the park. Looking at the players from out of town on the stage looking down on the victims of a shattering life changing experience only arouses in me deep, strong feelings of disgust. ON THIS DAY I AM ASHAMED TO BE A NEW ZEALANDER. I WILL REMEMBER FRIDAY 18 MARCH AS A DAY OF SHAME, NOT A DAY OF REMEMBRANCE. MAY GOD BLESS AND COMFORT THE SUFFERING PEOPLE OF CHRISTCHURCH. See more
    by: Chris Heenan

    [lprent: please don’t SHOUT. ]

  16. fatty 17

    I won’t be going, even though its a 10min walk from my place. People are still in need of basic services in Christchurch.
    Bob, John, Jul and Prince Will can fuck off or grab a shovel.

  17. happynz 18

    agree with Chris @12:07 and fatty @12:13

    Nah, I’m also hanging close to the house today. I don’t get the whole ‘Ain’t we all honoured that the Royal Nana’s grandson is here’ hogwash. My wife went for a stroll to Hagley Park though hoping for a glimpse of the balding one ‘cos being from Thailand and having a deep reverence for the king of Thailand, maybe she is more in tune with the whole royal thing-a-ma-gum than I am.

  18. Armchair Critic 19

    12:30
    And now for a party political broadcast, from the National Party.

  19. Marty G 20

    Tuned in on natrad. strangers in suits mouthing banal, trite speeches that other people wrote. Can’t bear to listen to more than a few seconds at a time.

    • Inventory2 20.1

      Do you include Phil Goff’s speech in that Marty?

      • Marty G 20.1.1

        What, because I would never criticise Goff? I’m not sure what blog you’ve been reading…

        Anyway, yes. Goff has to do it if Key does but he was the only one of the speakers, apart from parker, who was actually in the quake. That should have been a great base to speak from but he just talked about the emotions of others he saw, not how he felt himself, like he was a detached observer.

        • Pete 20.1.1.1

          I’ve thought that about the mayor lately, he seems to be operating in sort of like his own The Parker Show, but everyone else are the real ones. He’s played a very demanding role, detaching is probably a survival mode, a way of coping with everything he’s having to try and deal with. I hope he manages to come back down to earth some times, or some time soon.

        • lprent 20.1.1.2

          I2 does seem to have a curious memory.

          Actual events matter less than what he thinks how other people should act in his ideal world. You know where unionists always act like they are in a Trotsky alternative universe. Capitalists trickle down the wealth rather than pissing down on everyone else. Earthquakes damage can be repaired by private enterprise without interference from civil servants. Tax cuts can be achieved without the government going into debt during a recession despite what those people at the Treasury say. Authors at The Standard never criticize the Labour party. The Standard is run from the 9th floor of the beehive. etc…

          I’m sure that he has ruts worn in his brain because he will see something that doesn’t conform to these ideals, he appears to process it, and then simply forgets it when he next makes a comment on the subject. He appears to have failed in that process that says to abstract from experience and change your ideas.

          Either that or there are several age-related diseases that affect the processing of short-term memory into long-term that can explain this…

          But it is a feature of the blog life in NZ. Inventory2 is always locked into a world that none of the rest of us share.

          • Inventory2 20.1.1.2.1

            Lighten up Lprent. I actually thought that Goff’s speech was very good in the circumstances, as was the PM’s. My comment was simply a light-hearted dig at MartyG’s “strangers in suits mouthing banal, trite speeches that other people wrote” remark; nothing more; nothing less.

            Meanwhile, the consensus of those who attended seems to be that the service today has been helpful; an opportunity for the community to come together, reflect and start the process of rebuilding shattered lives. And despite what the Moon Man says, I’m off to Christchurch tomorrow to catch up with whanau, friends and staff, and help out in whatever way that I can.

            • lprent 20.1.1.2.1.1

              Couldn’t resist the stir. After all you write on us using stereotypes. I thought it was only fair to return the favor in a similar vein.

              Didn’t watch the stuff on TV. Friday night is one of the few times in the week when Lyn and I try to spend time together without work, volunteering, or the outside world interfering.

        • JS 20.1.1.3

          I agree. This would have been one time when speaking about personal experience would have been a good idea.

        • seeker 20.1.1.4

          @Marty 2.26

          re Phil Goff’s Speech (quoted from Labour News 18.3.11)

          ” At 12.51 pm on Tuesday the 22nd of February, Christchurch and the lives of its people changed forever.

          So violent was the earthquake that struck this city that buildings crumbled, roads cracked, homes were broken and families were torn apart.

          None of us who were here when that happened will ever forget that experience.

          Seeing the trauma it caused. The anxiety as people frantically tried to phone their husbands, wives, parents, children and friends to see if they were alright.

          Seeing the terrible damage done to this city. Buildings devastated and heritage lost. People killed, injured and trapped in collapsed buildings. The eerie silence of the central city whose time stopped at 12:51.

          At the PGC building, I stood with those waiting with a mixture of hope and worry for their family members and colleagues trapped in the ruins to be rescued……”

          Didn’t sound too detached to me. I could not watch the ‘service’ as I was far too upset at the idea of a ‘memorial’ service when the earthquake horror has only just recently happened and is still with us- it is still too present to be a memory. However one of the few little pieces I squinted at was speech snippets and I thought Goff’s sounded real and sincere not like Key’s usual aberrations – hence I looked the whole speech up on Labours’ website and it still appears totally sincere and very becoming for such a weird occasion.

  20. Marty G 21

    Oh god. And now dave dobyn doing loyal. Wasn’t that the america’s cup theme song?

    I like some of dd’s music but this just adds to the feeling this is all an external, artificial, made for tv production with the people of christchurch playing the extras.

    • Peter Rabbit 21.1

      I wonder when they will play Chumbawamba’s – I get knocked down?

      • pollywog 21.1.1

        …or scribe doing a rendition of Will Smiths

        BOOM…shake shake shake the room ?

        • felix 21.1.1.1

          Come on guys, that’s a bit on the uncool side isn’t it? Too soon.

          • lprent 21.1.1.1.1

            At least my mandate doesn’t cover being a member of the taste police….

          • pollywog 21.1.1.1.2

            Yeah sorry…prolly shoulda held off til ‘The Ring Cycle’ is complete, get the grieving and closure thing sorted and wait for things get back to normal in Christchurch .

            That’ll be monday afternoon then…

    • felix 21.2

      Indeed Marty. My first thought on hearing the song start was of Willie Nelson in “Wag The Dog”.

    • indiana 21.3

      …be glad that it wasn’t a rendition of a Kenny Rodgers song…

      • felix 21.3.1

        I had a yellow one once, but one of the wheels turned backwards and I couldn’t get past the first chapter.

  21. I’ve already expressed my opinion of this day but I’ll elaborate further. This date was chosen, I believe, in order to draw a line under the grieving phase as soon as seemly. This is being done so that the government can then take over the process (after next week’s Cabinet meeting) and start to prioritise the opportunities for big business in the rebuild (which, I predict, will in some ways be very rapid – ‘rushed’ – and put in place “realities on the ground” to ensure certain interests will be provided for.

    If I’m right, then this is a highly political and cynical act that is deliberately designed to clear the way for the ‘important business’ that will now begin. Ngaire Button (Christchurch’s Deputy Mayor) has already been publicly shamed by Key and Parker for her claim that the government was about to take over the process completely and take decisions out of the hands of the people of Christchurch by appointing Commissioners, a la ECAN.

    I hope some journalist pursues the back story on that very curious outburst from Button.

    On the other point, if some people (e.g., from the largely unaffected suburbs) want to go to the service – fine. They’ve been a bit ‘snookered’ even if they were concerned about the timing because this is it and, irrespective of promises that there will be other opportunities to remember officially, the ‘big one’ is now. Some will feel that, if they don’t go to the big one, they are being disrespectful.

    I didn’t go. Had a nice brunch out with my family at Drexels and now just wiling away the day. I’ll do my memorialising in my own way.I want to make sure I show some respect for the dead in my city, and for my city. If I went along I would not be doing that, given what I believe about the reasons behind this day being nominated.

    I realise that reason for not going will not apply to others who have gone.

    • Swampy 22.1

      Button’s claim is pretty well unbelievable, even if it is true that Tolley rushed to appoint a commissioner to Linwood College. It’;s hard to imagine what planet Button was on when she made that statement. The Ecan situation and that of the city council are poles apart.

  22. gobsmacked 23

    I’m not in Christchurch, so it’s not for me to tell people there what they should/shouldn’t have done today. If they went along and enjoyed it, good on ’em.

    But watching on TV, one thing really did grate … God, God, God, God, God.

    I’m usually a tolerant agnostic and some of my best friends (etc …), but – the last half an hour of being preached at really turned me into a militant atheist. Was it meant to be a religious service? Who decided NZ was a theocracy?

    God of earthquakes and tsunamis, you can keep him.

    • Swampy 23.1

      So then we can presume that Key (who is not a Christian himself) did not set the agenda.

    • Colonial Viper 23.2

      God of earthquakes and tsunamis, you can keep him.

      Don’t forget the spent nuclear fuel in damaged storage pools. Heating up, melting down and combusting to spread radiological material over thousands of square kilometres, for shits and giggles.

  23. ianmac 24

    There was a slight blip for John Campbell in his preamble when he said of the Prince “….. who is here on the behind, er the behalf of the Queen…….”
    Do speeches like those today have to be so uninspiring? “No risk” territory there today. Noticed that John Key made his careful speech reading from his script and that Phil Goff at least spoke with only occasional reference to notes. Speeches are so forgettable aren’t they.

  24. Rachael Ford 25

    Having that memorial when we just buried my uncle ex ctv was like a kick in the guts so I boycotted – I can’t even imagine how much it increased the stress for those going thru the terrible waiting still. Gross indecency – shame on Parker, Key and the churches. I don’t believe any other country would have done this before identifications let alone burials are even finished. It was a Parker ego trip.

  25. Rachael Ford 26

    I personally think it was also done now so that foreign Nats would nebver gain interest (via premature closure/forgetting) in post September risk mismanagement and therefore be at less risk of noting that the “inquiry” (term used lightly) has the wrong parameters – parameters focused only on buildings and that not so incidentally protect the true villains ie Parker, Key and ECan which all should have been prepared with decent geotech forecasting and civil defense measures for seismic lensing that any geo worth their degree ought have warned would massively increase the impacts beyond the tipped 7. There are many real questions these devos try to put off the radar

  26. Bob Stanforth 27

    It would appear that an estimated 30,000 + people disagreed and decided they wanted to be a part of this. By all means disagree with holding such an event, everyone will be different as regards timing, but to (a) ignore the fact that the community (through representatives, not all of you so don’t bother biting back about that) was consulted (they were) and (b) call JK, Parker et al the names as many of you have is truly pathetic.

    If 30,000 people – or even 20,000, margin of error in calling crowd numbers taken into account – showed up, that to me, and to most people I would suspect, says that this was something that a large section of the community wanted to be a part of. And even from that perspective alone – community – this was a good thing. Feel free to flame away, yet again people decide with their feet – and attend – and a minority on here flail away madly with pathetic name calling. How puerile.

    • r0b 27.1

      Feeling better now Bob? Over 100,000 were expected, if 30,000+ turned up, well good for them. At a quick look above you seem to “flail away madly with pathetic name calling” as much as anyone.

      Y’all enjoy your weekend now.

      • Bob Stanforth 27.1.1

        Sorry, 100,000 expected by whom, source? Or more mad wank?

        And if you can read, I said a minority. If you put yourself in that, by all means feel free. Where did I name call, apart from right here – arse.

        Oh, and I am. Lovely drop of hard earned white wine, do have one for me.

        • Bright Red 27.1.1.1

          It’s kind of lucky that 70% of the expected crowd stayed away in disgust. That only had “78 toilets and 10 ”large urinals” on. 1 per thousand isn’t a good number.

          • Bob Stanforth 27.1.1.2.1

            Please. Because the media say it, its a fact? OMFG. Since when do facts ever matter to the media when they try and tell – and sell – a story??? Source yes, reasoned and reasonable, not even slightly. No source for the estimate whatsoever, therefore plucked out of the flabby buttocks of a sub editor. And repetition – repeating – doesn’t make it better.

            Try and find an official source that states “we are planning on 100,000 people turning up” and the planning that goes with that, and I will apologise for my presumption. Will you for allowing media speculation to masquerade as “fact”?

            ASW: halls, rhymes with balls, lots of them.

            • r0b 27.1.1.2.1.1

              I guess you didn’t click on the last link then. A pity, you could have saved yourself a lot of ranting. TTFN.

              • Bob Stanforth

                LOL, ah yes, more repeating, makes it real. Said it before, say it again. Arse. Even better, its on the interweb, its MUST be a fact!! Shall I source some interweb facts for you? Looking for a bigger penis, have I got a deal for you!!!

                [You asked for a reference to support an assertion and it was given to you from several news sources. You are at liberty to produce either a reasoned argument against the evidence produced, or link to your own reference that contradicts it.

                Simply making a mockery is an offense that will be moderated out if you ignore this warning…RL]

                • infused

                  That’s not a legit reference.

                • Um Bob

                  You asked who expected 100,000 attendees

                  R0b gave you multiple sources.

                  You then went kinda weird.

                  Feeling better?

                  • Bob Stanforth

                    I expected 25,000 people to attend. 30,000 turned up.

                    Amazing wasnt it?

                    There you go, source, fact, according to some. Must be true. Right?

                    • McFlock

                      “I expected 25,000 people to attend. 30,000 turned up”

                      Well, hell – I guess you’re the Ken Ring of events management.
                      They should have hired you to do the market estimates for the Dunedin Stadium, too.

                • Bob Stanforth

                  RL, thats fair, let me try this then:

                  With no source quoted, anyone could have said it, yes? Its is highly likely, with no formal source noted, that a sub has pulled a number from aforementioned LHA, kind of like quotes from a “friend of a celebrity” or a “source close to the actress…” etc.

                  Simply repeating the fact that an utterly unqualified stab in the dark has been made does not make it even slightly worthy of interest, let alone making it a “fact” – if it was someone at the event organisers, maybe, but note that, attribute. For all we know, it could be the town drunk.

                  Per the repeated story, 100, 000 were expected by no one other than an unnamed, non attributed source. That’s not ‘fact’ thats fill. But please feel free to correct me 🙂

      • Swampy 27.1.2

        And how many more watched on TV from their homes.

  27. Craig Glen Eden 28

    Shit Bob you look so desperate following on from Racheal Ford, as for your geusstaments 30.000 20.000 which was it, seems like alot of people didnt go. Its you that looks pathetic Bob. Condolences to the people of Christchurch, those who went I hope it helped those who didnt I hope you find some peace after your loss real soon.

    • Bob Stanforth 28.1

      What, you deliberately obfuscate, or you fail basic comprehension, which is it? The estimates were 30K, so yes, a lot didn’t go, as is normal for large public events, there is no normal for this. But a lot took time out to do just that. Yay for them, it was offered, and accepted. Someone read the mood right. I wonder who that was? Phil In went, wonder why?

    • Swampy 28.2

      I don’t know where you live, do you have a venue in your city that can hold 100,000? We don’t. I never heard they thought that many would turn up.

    • Swampy 28.3

      It’s quite plain why a lot of people didn’t go, there weren’t that many facilities available, they would have had to brave very bad roads and traffic jams. People are finding in this city that a trip that used to take 20 minutes can now take over an hour.

      So much easier to watch it on TV.

  28. Sam 29

    How about we all just shut up and nibble on the apple.

  29. Rachael Ford 30

    Look Bob Stanforth or Parker or whoever you are. Clearly the majority voted with their feet by not attending this bad taste affair. A lot will soon be revealed, but before accusing me of being the rude one to Parker – Key et al i think you need to consider their responsibility in this disaster which is and will be seen to be large – ince a correctly designed inquiry is instigated.
    I have every right to call them complete asses given they invited my family to attend this charade EVEN THOUGH we just spent over 2 sleepless highly stressed weeks waiting for a body they had for a week but failed to inform us they did. I was invited to attend after exhausting all funds traveling to chch to support the Aunt widow who raised me and was alo attending othr victims funerals as they were workmates, after we finally got the body of my uncle who part raised me we traveled to a remote part of the Waikato (3 day tangi) where the traditional ceremonies saw us get virtually no slep for 3 days… then on the heels of this Parker expects me (who lives in Welly) to rush back to CHCH for the ceremony in a state of complete mental stress and exhaustion.
    And my family were prolly in a better space than many given we had the body \(which feels much better than not). In no universe is a memorial held at such haste decent. An apology would be good and I take my hat off to leaders like Dalziel whose objection was made by refusing VIP seating. It is very sick and only very depraved leaders could acquiesce to such window dressing. I feel you’ve little life experience – maybe you are a cheerleader for the A/B’s?

    • Swampy 30.1

      Look dear, you don’t know how many were watching on TV instead. So Liane D refused VIP seating. I presume she still attended so I actually fail to see what her trivial protest achieved. It just seems to be a lot of unnecessary politicing by Labour to do this.

  30. Pete 31

    Rachel, it sounds like you have every right to call anyone you want to a complete ass – just as the however many thousand had the right to attend for their own reasons if they chose.

    I’d be surprised if Parker expected you to rush back and attend, I don’t think anyone was expected to attend, it was available to those who chose to go.

    • Colonial Viper 31.1

      This will all come out in the wash. Key got to fill out his photo album a bit more, it was a memorable day out, more to come.

  31. Rachael Ford 32

    The point here Pete is that had they put a more sensible time frame on it it could have been useful for and attended by the majority who would have liked a memorial service. The timing was not inclusive – it was very problematic for those most affected – therefore insensitive, ridiculous and uncaring… not to mention disrespectful.
    As per Press blog item above the service clearly did not have victims interests at heart and had to have some other motive. What other country runs grand memorials whilst still in a State of Emergency. Was Erebus memorialised while the plane still smoked?
    Also re the community being consulted as to if it wanted this I call BS. I rang the PMs office and milked the service organiser who told me Ngai tahu agreed in a meeting weeks ago that was not even documented – so it was all kneejerk. Just you try an OIA request re consultation and you’ll find that only Bobs your uncle was perhaps asked… forcefully?! I was an official victim attending Burnside every day and was not consulted.

  32. reid 33

    Meaningless, premature symbolism.

    Apparently CV lots and lots of people disagreed. They were the ones clapping. Didn’t you hear them?

    • Colonial Viper 33.1

      It was good to give people an emotional release.

      As I said previously reid, the ball is still in play. Christchurch has to be rebuilt and revitalised. Camera ops and John Key filling up his photo album aside, I am waiting with anticipation.

      • Jim Nald 33.1.1

        Why not go the whole hog with the donkey? [Please excuse the mixing of metaphors here]

        Post a webpage with all the pics of Pree Wee and Kee in the past couple of days.

        For those who abhor the latest tasteless media whoring and for those who are pro-Republic, let those pics on the webpage be firmly imprinted on their minds and get them to a ballot box.

        Come to think of it, why not have a webpage with all his photo-ops to date, eg at least one per week since 9 Nov 2008? Might as well give him a hand with his autobiography, erm, picture scrapbook?

  33. Rob 34

    Brilliant contributions by Melissa Lee on twitter:

    “Do you need to get political on a day like this with that stupid red tie?” (referring to Goff)

    “if he wore a black suit I can understand as it would be Canterbury collies (sic – she meant colours) but — tacky!”

    “hey I’m wearing black and red for Canterbury. No issues with that. Just phil. Did he have to today of all days?”

    • Pete 34.1

      I agree that the comments on what colour anything anyone wears are pathetic. What Lee twits is embarrassing (or should be).

      The media is as bad as anyone (TV3 anyway) in bothering to highlight it.

      • Rob 34.1.1

        Oh FFS don’t shoot the messenger Pete – a politician who puts their foot in their mouth is newsworthy, get real.

        • Pete 34.1.1.1

          I turned off the item but thought it was just them bringing it up, but I checked their news site and yeah, they were highlighting her stupidity.

          • Rob 34.1.1.1.1

            Explain to me how you can vote for a list MP.

            Especially a list MP from Auckland when you reside in Dunedin.

            A serious plea to the moderators, can we limit this guy to a manageable, say, 20 posts a day? There’s only so much unintelligble cr@p I can take.

            [Sorry but that’s not what moderation is for….RL]

            • Colonial Viper 34.1.1.1.1.1

              If not a paid shrill, my bets are on a random word generator.

            • Pete 34.1.1.1.1.2

              It’s quite simple really – party vote determines how far up the list gets into parliament. The quality of the list is an indication of the quality of the party. Seriously, you didn’t know that’s how the list works?

              How do you vote? Not based on glossy mail drops? Or what colour tie the party leader wears?

              • Colonial Viper

                Trolling side track.

                Rob asked a very simple question – how can you vote for a specific list MP.

                You derailed the inquiry into the quality of the list, colour of ties etc.

                Classic shallow trolling.

                [Actually Pete has given a coherent answer above. It’s not the role of moderation to referee the outcome of a conversation. I generally try to follow Lynn’s example of tolerating all but the most most idiotic, blatant trolls. So far Pete has shown all the classic signs of being a newbie and brash… bit like an annoying younger sibling constantly making irritating noises to get attention. But troll?… my call is no. RL]

                • Rob

                  LOL. So someone who was 37th on the party list in 2008 is a factor you take into consideration when casting your party vote? My irritation is turning into amusement, thanks.

                  @RL (7.43): I know – it was a comment made more in hope than anything else

                  @RL (7.57): Someone who has close to 9,500 posts on kiwiblog is not a newbie, IMHO

                  [Sorry but I lead a sheltered life and my mum never lets me play in the sewer.:-) If Pete is accustomed to that place then he’s got a learning curve ahead of him at The Standard. ..RL]

                  • Pete

                    So you wouldn’t make any judgement of National on Pansy Wong or Melissa Lee if they were down the list? Chris Carter down Labour’s list, David Garrett at the break point on the Act list? Michael Laws if he was 5-ish on the NZF list?

                    Obviously they are not as important as the top of the list, but they are part of the party, and some of them are future cabinet members. The weakest links in a caucus can be a major burden on the party. I think the lists are ignored too much, and then are complained about as a major weak point of MMP. If we are stuck with the list we have to look at it more and use it better.

                    • Rob

                      I will rephrase – someone who is 37th on a party list is not a major factor in the allocation of my party vote. It is not even a minor factor. I would also suggest it is not a factor for 99.9% of the voting public.

                      Many voters do not have your sophistication Pete. They cast their vote on personal circumstance, a basic understanding of policy, not the depth of party lists.

                      If you allocate your party vote on the basis of such detailed analysis, good on you. Although I am surprised you have the time given how much of your day is spent posting on blogs.

                    • Pete

                      There will be a wide range of reasons why different people vote. I suggest that outside of party circles a basic understanding of policy is not a major criteria (except for some lolly scramble policies) – I think a basic misunderstanding of policy is more prevalent.

                      What proportion of voters do you think have a decent understanding of economic policy? Of S59? Of ETS? Of foreshore and seabed?

                      Can you explain the details of WFF without needing to refer to anything?

                      Opposing party misinformation is probably more influential than policy explanations. Take “bene bashing” as an example, compared to explaining what National (and the last government for that matter) are trying to do to reduce dependence and expenditure on benefits.

                      Parties need policies but it’s piffle for most people.

            • Armchair Critic 34.1.1.1.1.3

              Rob – Looks like it’s time to bait the troll into getting himself banned. Let the games begin.

      • Pascal's bookie 34.1.2

        But I thought you wanted pollies to be serious. If so, then you should think it’s good when the media highlights their foolishness so that you can vote against them.

        • Pete 34.1.2.1

          I wasn’t likely to vote for Lee before this. And this confirms I’d be very happy for her to retire from politics, and if she doesn’t then she gets shunted off the Nat List. If she ends up at a make-able position on the list it will figure in my decision in November – it will reflect pretty poorly on the Nat selections.

          • Pascal's bookie 34.1.2.1.1

            fair enough, but I was talking about your kneejerk criticism of the media which you claimed was just as bad.

    • Jim Nald 34.2

      “Do you need to get political on a day like this with that stupid red tie?” (referring to Goff)

      Dear Melissa, Do you need to get political on a day like this with that stupid line.

  34. Rachael Ford 35

    Doing it once but not doing it right sums it up for me – lots of people weren’t clapping either Reid versus how many would have showed up in a years time. Chch is not very English today with the lack of class shown.

    • Colonial Viper 35.1

      There will be a lot of people there February next year, when Goff leads the event.

      John Key had to get it in now, because of that.

      • grumpy 35.1.1

        A lot (including our family) didn’t go because of the gridlock Christchurch has become. For those outside the city who don’t know, the closure of the central city has caused the surrounding areas to be completely chokka with cars most of the day.

        We just couldn’t face the prospect – however we support the service and watched together on TV.

      • Swampy 35.1.2

        Oh I see. We have to have another one next year so Phil Goff can have one as well.

        Now, does that suggest that this is all about politics? LOL.

        • Colonial Viper 35.1.2.1

          1 year anniversaries after a major tragedy are the norm

          Not 3 week (!) ones.

          • Swampy 35.1.2.1.1

            When someone big dies there is a national funeral e.g. the US president.

            This time they haven’t had a national funeral, they have had a national memorial.

            When the US president dies they don’t wait a year to have a funeral.

  35. reid 36

    Doing it once but not doing it right sums it up for me – lots of people weren’t clapping either Reid versus how many would have showed up in a years time. Chch is not very English today with the lack of class shown.

    The media is usually good at picking the mood if not the facts Rachael and I wasn’t there, you were.

    I’m going to have to rely on that and my political intuition to tell me whether you’re right or not but thanks for the heads up on the possibility.

    CV what do you mean by Goff leading the February event? You’re not saying you think he’ll win the election are you? Crikey.

    Sorry folks, should have tracked the sub-thread. Apologies.

    • Rob 36.1

      “You’re not saying you think he’ll win the election are you? Crikey.”

      The gap is large, but not insurmountable. In all likelihood economic conditions will get worse between now and November which is traditionally bad for the incumbent Govt. The trouble for Labour is they have yet to show they have the smarts to capture those who are starting to get disenfranchised. Also factor in National complacency and the election is not a done deal, far from it.

      It may come down to who puts their foot in their mouth the least. Based on recent performance from both sides, it would be a brave soul to predict that.

      • reid 36.1.1

        The gap is large, but not insurmountable.

        It’s the sort of gap that Eddy Murphy faced in The Golden Child where he solved it by blowing dust into the chasm to expose the hidden pillars, but unfortunately I don’t think it’s going to be that simple for Phil.

        The RWC win or lose is a win for the govt, and unfortunately for Goff, he’s not it. In my calculation that puts a shine onto the issue you raise.

        I think foot in mouth is prevalent in Goff: e.g. ruling out Hone whereas Key’s career has taught him how to think fast and it shows in what he says. He’s very weak on oratory, he needs some serious training in that area, but that’s about his only serious political weakness I’ve so far identified in Key.

        As you say it does take a brave soul and anything can happen.

        I also don’t think you can read into electoral thinking the belief that National is complacent, in anyway, at the mo. And I suspect this belief will continue right through and beyond November.

        Too many emergencies have changed the landscape for the next few years at least, attitude-wise, re: complacency. It can’t and won’t be tolerated not by anyone over the next few years, that’s quite obvious already.

    • Colonial Viper 36.2

      CV what do you mean by Goff leading the February event? You’re not saying you think he’ll win the election are you? Crikey.

      I’m saying that Key has bet against holding the one year anniversary commemoration himself, one of the reasons he rushed a three week (!) commemoration.

      • reid 36.2.1

        He didn’t look like he was in panic mode today, or perhaps he was on the inside, he just didn’t indicate it to the rest of us, apart from you and maybe a few others.

        I’m not sure that means Phil will win the election.

        I quite liked the Bob Parker speech today. Very, very appropriate and moving.

  36. anon 37

    Rachael Ford , you are [deleted]

    [Personal attacks are not welcome here. Try again, see if you can make your point with a bit more respect this time. — r0b]

  37. Rob 38

    Nah r0b I’ll do it.

    Rachael Ford, you are most welcome to voice your opinion on here and I hope as the weeks and months roll by life returns to some normality for you and your community.

    • Swampy 38.1

      Yes I am a part of that community and I don’t agree with anything Rachel Ford Says.

  38. Swampy 39

    Looks like most of the opposition is politically motivated. Better not let John Key be prime ministerial in an election year. Prime Ministers are not supposed to be seen or heard in case it could be political and earthquakes or natural disasters are not supposed to happen in election year.

    • Colonial Viper 39.1

      Just asking the PM to be a PM and not a camera seeking showboat.

      A 3 week(!) commemoration. Who has ever heard of such a thing. And before some families have even received the bodies of their loved ones.

      • reid 39.1.1

        cathartic (comparative more cathartic, superlative most cathartic)
        purgative; inducing catharsis
        That releases emotional tension, especially after an overwhelming experience

        So you can take it either as something that’s ignoring the suffering or something that’s relieving it. Isn’t it the case that in human nature different people move through stages of trauma at different speeds.

        Last time I checked a few mins ago, the media wasn’t full of anguish but rather of inspiration for the apparently cathartic service in the second sense of that word. Isn’t that good, since it wasn’t for those of us who weren’t there, it was for them, and it looks like it worked. Great, for them.

        • Swampy 39.1.1.1

          Most of the media has been quite positive about the event except for the Press newspaper (which in a lot of its writing has been quite negative). But it’s about time the Press actually got on board with helping us to get back to normal instead of pandering to all the negative viewpoints out there.

      • Swampy 39.1.2

        Some people will never get their bodies, so maybe we should never have a funeral?

        This is the nearest thing to a national funeral.

  39. vto 40

    Did anyone get to shake His hand?

  40. Rachael Ford 41

    Thx Rob – at your service. Swampy my comments are not politically motivated merely dissenting like many others – I rather liked Key before this use of raw victims as props (a habit begun with SST alliances perhaps), but now I’ll just have to defect and find an alternative. Severely disappointed in this conduct – I thought Bronagh and his Jewish heritage might have given him a clue. If you need trauma counsellors en masse at a memorial service it is definitely premature my mental health degree suggests to me. So now we know his disorder – he jumps before thinking too hard, don’t trust those instincts so much JK. Or is it BP, both council and the PMs office was accusing the other of making the call the day before…

  41. Swampy 42

    If someone can put out a proper opinion poll showing percentages in favour/against that would go a long way to suggesting this might have some real teeth rather than looking super political and shallow as it does.

    As it is it appears you have a personal dislike of Parker, and perhaps of Key, which have impacted your viewpoint to some extent.

    Few people would have known that Labour MPs chose to refuse VIP seating which makes them look like a shallow political stunt.

    There is no right or wrong time, this particular time just happens to be close to when funerals would be being held so it is the closest thing to a national funeral and should be considered as such.

    • Of course when Key opted to stay to stay at home and meet Gillard instead of taking up 25 seats on the Erebus memorial flight, his original choice wasnt a shallow political stunt.

    • RobC 42.2

      The fact that few people knew that Labour MPs refused VIP seating is a good thing – they made a point without turning it into a “political stunt”. Good on them for a) doing something they felt was right b) not drawing attention to it

      On the other side, we have someone who uses public social media to draw attention to the colour of someone’s tie. That, to me, is “shallow”.

  42. Rachael Ford 43

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/4788002/A-mothers-memorial-day

    So it was too soon for bereaved Mum (yet to bury her kid) and for USAR staff per the Press’s truth cryer. New theory – they didn’t just throw it together cos Willy was in town – they did so because by the time a year is up… at least some stars of the show will be revealed by OIA’s to be not so lily white re their disaster prep.

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Hard News: Dealer’s Choice, an oral history from Planet 1994
    In 1994, I was the editor for an issue of Planet magazine focused on cannabis, its culture and the prospects for the end of its prohibition. Part of that issue was an interview with 'Ringo', an experienced cannabis dealer.I recently posted my essay from that issue, and I figured it ...
    2 days ago
  • The invasion of women’s sports by men: some facts
    Dr Helen Waite, sports sociologist and former elite athlete, on the invasion of women’s sport by men and the anti-scientific and misogynist ideology used to rationalise it.   ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 days ago
  • Remainers starting to sound like fascists
    As Brexit comes to a grisly conclusion (perhaps) people on all sides are saying intemperate and uwise things.  Some, like the Daly Mail, have been doing it for years.People as normally level headed as Jon Lansman are calling for automatic deselection of MPs who vote against a (likely) Labour three ...
    2 days ago
  • Labour MPs supporting Johnson’s turd-sandwich deal?
    I find this unbelievable:
    I've got one source saying more Labour MPs than expected are mulling whether to vote for the deal - including names who were not on the letter to Juncker and Tusk— Emilio Casalicchio (@e_casalicchio) 17 October 2019 I've compiled a list of possible reasons why Labour ...
    2 days ago
  • Why do we need control orders again?
    On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Bullshitting the Minister
    On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Speaker: Extinction Rebellion is not a cult (but ecstasy for the people)
    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    3 days ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    3 days ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    3 days ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    4 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    4 days ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    4 days ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    4 days ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    4 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    4 days ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    4 days ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    5 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    5 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    5 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    5 days ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    6 days ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    6 days ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    6 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    6 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    6 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    1 week ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    1 week ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Is this study legit? 5 questions to ask when reading news stories of medical research
    Hassan Vally, La Trobe University Who doesn’t want to know if drinking that second or third cup of coffee a day will improve your memory, or if sleeping too much increases your risk of a heart attack? We’re invested in staying healthy and many of us are interested in reading ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago