Climate Action Mondays: after the IPCC report, what now?

87 comments on “Climate Action Mondays: after the IPCC report, what now? ”

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1. DB Brown 1

   11 April 2022 at 7:19 am

   This article's from Aug/2021 but the message is exactly the same today – regenerative systems can (should) be both profitable and restorative.

   https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/10/days-of-wine-and-olives-how-the-old-farming-ways-are-paying-off-spain-aoe?

   Farmers clearly want to see models before they take a leap. These examples encompass a Mediterranean climate and production, but there are many local farmers willing to share what they are doing here and what they have learned on their journey.

   https://www.quorumsense.org.nz/
2. Ad 2

   11 April 2022 at 9:12 am

   A really simple on-fridge test is to checklist the number of times you use the car per week.

   Then challenge yourself to bring it down by 1 trip every week. Then by every month.

   From experience you can pack a lot into one day if you start early.
   • weka 2.1

     11 April 2022 at 9:49 am

     and time freed up from driving for other things, bonus!
   • Craig H 2.2

     11 April 2022 at 1:55 pm

     This type of mindset is the ticket – big stuff is needed as well, but if individuals can reduce by some, that adds up to a lot.
   • lprent 2.3

     11 April 2022 at 4:45 pm

     On average for our little hybrid 1.5 litre is between 2 and 5 trips per week between the two of us. Most are on the weekend.

     The only regular activity is acting as the shopping cart to the supermarket ~1km away. I do the shopping and I have now have (old age) a problem big toe.

     Usually another trip of about 1 (bunnings) – 8 (pbtech) km for some shopping basket. This week it was getting a overdue registration.

     The rest are usually to family (Grey Lynn/ Titirangi / French Bay / Rotorua) or occasional days at work in Hamilton. Or a writers class in the North Shore

     Works out at a touch over 11km per day over the last 192 days (1st October). The old station wagon rarely gets used averages under 2km per day. It gets a run every couple of weeks when both vehicles are in use.

     e-bike gets used most days – it averages about 6km / day. Mostly doing trip to and from workplace and runs down Ponsonby Road for things like glasses getting fixed, doctor, lunch etc.

     Just calculating it – the largest are the runs to see my father in Rotorua. That is about 500km for the round trip. We have done 3 of those since October out of 2227 km on the hybrid. One trip to work in Hamilton..
     • higherstandard 2.3.1

       11 April 2022 at 5:02 pm

       What's the problem with the toe Lynn ?
       • Tony Veitch (not etc.) 2.3.1.1

         12 April 2022 at 7:54 am

         Gout?
3. DB Brown 3

   11 April 2022 at 9:14 am

   This incredible initiative might help life flagging spirits. Many projects in many countries restoring ecosystems through very simple actions.

   https://justdiggit.org/what-we-do/work/

   Who would have thought you could change the world with minor earthworks.
   • weka 3.1

     11 April 2022 at 9:52 am

     "this is the decade of doing"

     Brilliant.

     I noticed an emphasis elsewhere on GHG emission reduction and specifically not relying on credits and tree planting as offsets. We should be doing the ecosystem restoration for its own sake and the flow on benefits, and for the joy of it, not to keep on polluting.
     • DB Brown 3.1.1

       11 April 2022 at 10:40 am

       It's faster and more effective to restore the ecosystems involved in production as (many of) these places, via the plough, petrol & pesticide… destroy the soil community and add to soil, water and atmospheric pollution.

       When you make productive systems sustainable it's a double whammy. Reversing damage and restoring ecosystem services.

       We're losing the insects, polluting all manner of water bodies and other life sustaining systems. Add sporadic and inconsistent pollination, poor decomposition rates, plagues of pests as predatory species drop out… Add all that to increasingly dangerous weather bombs, fires, droughts, and a horde of microbial pathogens just waiting for the weakening of plants, fungi, animals… to start their invasion. Add all that to trying to work a bottom line and the case is hopeless. We must restore our ecology.

       The microbes can evolve (adapt to change) far faster than we higher organisms. We really do need to stop farming how we farm, building how we build, moving how we move. e.g. the way we breed plants has taken edible plants we market out of the arms race with microbes. We try to counter this with hardcore poisons. Restoring bio-diversity should be part of any restoration project.

       Look to examples and get on with it. Restoration and renewal.
       • weka 3.1.1.1

         11 April 2022 at 10:52 am

         that's how I see it too. So much potential simply shifting from conventional to regen models.

         Two challenges: how to get the general population to understand what you just said so that they vote accordingly (local and general elections. And how to transition the economy (I don't believe it's possible to export animal products at the scale we do when we switch to regen models).
         • DB Brown 3.1.1.1.1

           11 April 2022 at 12:07 pm

           I don't see that it's necessary to export so many animal products when farmers look at their, not their corporations, bottom line. They can run less animals and do just as well when much of the inputs they pay for today are reduced or produced on-farm. Again, having examples is important (start with Quorum Sense).

           And look at the crops one might realise with adding trees. Timber, fuel, fodder. With increasing weather extremities it starts to make a lot of sense to add shade, shelter, AND an expensive nut crop? Perhaps a veritable grocery store of fruit nuts veg herbs flowers and medicines for the family – or the community? That's got to make sense looking at food prices, supply issues, you know, all of the crap we've been looking at.

           Add some well thought out shelter trees and strips to riparian plantings and you've got the bones of a functional ecosystem right there. Practise the reduction of harmful inputs as best one can and pay attention to smelling the flowers and what the birds are on about.

           In light of these past few years there is a very strong case for making your place more resilient. Sustainability is the ultimate resilience.
           • weka 3.1.1.1.1.1

             11 April 2022 at 12:47 pm

             it makes total sense to me. When I have these conversations on TS, people will say 'but that export dairy pays for our standard of living'. By which I assume they mean health, welfare, education, roads etc (not sure how, is it Fonterra pays farmers, who pay workers who pay tax?)

             If we switched farming to regen over the next decade, we still export mass milk powder and keep the advantages of regen in terms of carbon sequestration, building soil, and retaining fertility.

             I guess if we were being sensible about humanure, animal manure and food scraps, we would be cycling nutrients in part globally rather than locally. The main concern there would be the carbon sequestration being offset by the export carbon costs.
             • Robert Guyton …

               11 April 2022 at 2:18 pm

               Fonterra's Edendale coal-powered milk-powder factory pumps out extraordinary amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, every day of the year.

               That's got to stop. ASAP.
               • Poission …

                 11 April 2022 at 2:28 pm

                 And it sends electricity back into the grid so you can power your EV overnight,as does lorneville.
                 • Robert Guyton …

                   11 April 2022 at 3:02 pm

                   So, no need to change the massive consumption of coal and creating of greenhouse gases by the Fonterra plant at Edendale?

                   I see.
                   • Poission …

                     11 April 2022 at 3:25 pm

                     Edendale is one of the most energy efficient factories in NZ ,in comparison with NH dairy factories its carbon footprint is not even a toe.Overseas substitution with inefficient processing is against the UN conventions ie Both Paris,and the FAO standard models.

                     Energy efficiency gains by Fonterra over the last decade is enough to power all of Hamilton without having to spend on new generation,with money we do not have.
                   • DB Brown …

                     11 April 2022 at 5:58 pm

                     You'll get inundated by greenwashing cheerleaders Robert. They've also run a coal mine under Waitoa factory for at least fifty years I know of. No sign of stopping that either.

                     Glencoal will be the operator, that's 99% Fonterra (1% Sparkles).

                     In Waitoa they used to house workers in asbestos houses above the coal mine across from the steam trains and the lime pile. People and planet first!

                     And they've got glossy brochures. Have you read the glossy brochures?

                     "Both (coal mining) sites have biodiversity management plans in place to protect the local environment during operations to rehabilitate them when operations are complete," Fonterra said.

                     See, they're going to plant some trees and protect the environment during operation (of coal mines). All better.
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     11 April 2022 at 6:51 pm

                     DB – well that's a relief! I love a good greenwash and I'll be able to rest easy on my bed of embers and ash, knowing those Big Players did their level best!!

                     Fonterra certainly won me over when they provided free milk for school children – what had I been thinking, criticising them for their exorbidant CO2 production???
                 • Ad …

                   11 April 2022 at 4:51 pm

                   Do those plants burn coal for their primary energy source?
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     11 April 2022 at 4:53 pm

                     Edendale does. They've promised to change … somewhere, sometime, down the track…meanwhile, she's pumping!!
                   • Poission …

                     11 April 2022 at 5:22 pm

                     No nat gas in SI.Co generation is a by product of the steam production,that would otherwise be wasted.

                     These new plants were future proofed,and will be able to use a special type of biofuel (black carbon) from waste lignin,getting the feedstock right is only now technically feasible,and still requires investment in upstream capability.
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     11 April 2022 at 5:38 pm

                     And so, while we wait, the Edendale plant pumps on and on…
                     Poission – see 11 April 2022 at 4:40 pm
4. Robert Guyton 4

   11 April 2022 at 11:41 am

   Many people will claim that minor adjustments; driving less, growing home gardens, holidaying within walking distance etc. are futile. They miss the point of such actions. Despair will be the killer, long before the air becomes too hot to breathe. Those who have walked some distance down the path of change-for-the-sake-of- all, will be better prepared to withstand the crippling realisation of what we've done to ourselves, what we've allowed to happen and what we have to face.

   Start making the "futile" changes; your peace-of-mind depends on doing so.
   • weka 4.1

     11 April 2022 at 12:49 pm

     I've been trying to find a way to explain how 'it's never too late' is infinitely better for human wellbeing than 'it's too late', including our mental, emotional, and spiritual wellbeing. Something about bringing us back into nature and right relationship.

     The value of the small, right actions is invaluable.
     • Robert Guyton 4.1.1

       11 April 2022 at 2:27 pm

       It's a matter of where people believe the "game" is being played; "out there" by corporations, governments, countries etc. or inside of one's own mind and in the minds of the other humans we share the planet with.

       It's challenging (but not impossible) to influence the thinking of other humans, but not impossible at all, to reform one's own.

       That's the place to start. With a change of mind comes a change of behaviour. Sometimes it works the other way around; if you're not entirely sure that a new practice is worthwhile (walking instead of driving, eating more plants than you do presently etc.) do it anyway and check yourself for effects 🙂

       Often, you can circumnavigate the anguish of unknowing, by taking advice from people you have, in the past, tagged as being "wise" – such folk comment here on TS, I'm pleased to say.
       • weka 4.1.1.1

         11 April 2022 at 3:37 pm

         aye, but the paradox is in those who are already changing and what to do in response to those that aren't or won't.
         • Robert Guyton 4.1.1.1.1

           11 April 2022 at 4:34 pm

           There is no paradox. You can only do what you can do. If part of "what you do" involves trying to create change in the public sphere, through writing, political action, on-the-ground protesting etc. all well and good, but the most important element in being and remaining effective, is your own hauora. With one hand monitoring that pulse, you can do whatever you want to with the other 🙂
           • weka 4.1.1.1.1.1

             11 April 2022 at 5:44 pm

             I understand what you are saying Robert. However when the middle classes for instance look to their own well being and tell themselves that they can only do what they can do, the also tell themselves a narrative of inadequate change. So the philosophical question here is whether one should compromise one's perceived wellbeing to save other life, or whether that runs counter to saving other life.

             We know that there are people who put themselves at risk in other emergency situations, I don't see climate being too different other than that it's a long emergency as we have to pace ourselves.
             • Robert Guyton …

               11 April 2022 at 6:45 pm

               We are all already "at risk". We have to hope for effect from our actions. If we cannot effect others, the greatest effect we can have will be on our own behaviour. Wasting effort on trying to change others, and at the same time exhausting yourself, is a double-loss. If, on the other hand, we can affect the behaviour of others in a way that improves the situation, while at the same time maintaining our own effectiveness (and hauora) then by all means, act that way.

               Or are you hinting at effective direct actions taken without the support (or knowledge) of the laggards?

               I expect this is in fact what will happen.
5. Robert Guyton 5

   11 April 2022 at 2:41 pm

   Weka – have you heard of The Phantom Planter? He's a hard-case Irishman, guerrilla-planting trees as if the future depended upon it 🙂 He started out his "working life" as a Delboy, following his father's footsteps, made huge amounts of money and then had a BIG epiphany – now, he plants, along with others, trees all over the show. I've been talking with him. He's a good person who changed markedly, and a model for the kinds of things you are promoting here. His website is well worth searching-out and his story entertaining to read.

   https://www.facebook.com/thephantomplanter/
   • roy cartland 5.1

     11 April 2022 at 3:59 pm

     See, that's half the problem. I feel like I need to get all the debt off my back before I can make any meaningful contribution. I'd love to buy farms and convert them to wetlands, but they still have residual value in future dairy production, or something. Hence, can't afford.

     Of course, if I had heaps of money, I like to think I'd do the same too, and wouldn't need the epiphany!
     • Robert Guyton 5.1.1

       11 April 2022 at 4:30 pm

       I feel your pain, Roy 🙂

       Seems "buying farms and converting them to wetlands" isn't a viable way forward for most of us. Some people could do that though. Choosing a do-able action's the trick; remember, the measure of your success is not the avoidance of climate change, it's the avoidance of climate-despair!
       • roy cartland 5.1.1.1

         11 April 2022 at 4:39 pm

         Thanks, that's good korero.
       • DB Brown 5.1.1.2

         11 April 2022 at 6:05 pm

         You could turn wetlands to money, even conserved ones. Only imagination stands in the way of that. Not an overnight return, but a return.

         Tourism, fishing, aquaculture, timber, medicines, honey, science… off the top of my head. A guided tour of a wetland with an ecologically wise person is an eye and mind opening experience.
         • Robert Guyton 5.1.1.2.1

           11 April 2022 at 6:39 pm

           Entirely agree and so will tangata whenua, with their mahi nga kai aspirations.

           Tuna alone …
   • weka 5.2

     11 April 2022 at 8:50 pm

     Interesting. I've been coming across a few stories lately of people that were in the working in full on civ aligned ways and then came to their senses. Maybe there's something in the air.
     • Robert Guyton 5.2.1

       11 April 2022 at 8:53 pm

       There's gonna be a lot of that from here on in.

       Grief, panic and despair, initially, then some sort of acceptance and a sense of purpose and direction, as with the Phantom Planter.
6. Robert Guyton 6

   11 April 2022 at 4:40 pm

   Poission – really? Edendale's Fonterra plant, which burns 700 to 900 tonnes of lignite coal per day, day in, day out, a mere "toe" of a carbon footprint??

   You are making a fun joke, yes?
   • DB Brown 6.1

     11 April 2022 at 6:14 pm

     But but – lignin according to Poisson.

     Lignin is a highly recalcitrant molecule.

     Are we really still salivating over the extremely energy intensive processes of cracking lignin open for an energy source? And is this the fate of biomass now, taken from the land and fed to Fonterras factories. To be replaced with – chemical salts? Is that the plan?

     Remove all that organic matter, day in, day out, I see nothing good happening to the land within their grasp.

     But I'm sure the brochures will be lovely.
     • Poission 6.1.1

       11 April 2022 at 6:34 pm

       Its the waste from Forestry.
       • Robert Guyton 6.1.1.1

         11 April 2022 at 6:57 pm

         Soil loves lignin. Soil needs lignin. A healthy environment requires that soil gets lignin. "Slash" left over following the felling of production forests is lignin. Transporting lignin, which is needed by the soil it fell on, away to be burned in Fonterra's powdering factories is not wise, at all.
         • weka 6.1.1.1.1

           11 April 2022 at 7:06 pm

           antithesis of sustainable.
       • DB Brown 6.1.1.2

         11 April 2022 at 7:05 pm

         Well that's a better option than letting forestry slash take out bridges and estuaries. But it’s a really bad plan. Short sighted. Strips land.

         We need diversity – a mixed forestry, and forest industry taking responsibility for all their messes not just those handy to a Fonterra boiler. Returning slash to the soil via mulching. Raising a fungal crop for either industry or locals is a far better plan for the foresters. The fungi turn slash and stumps to topsoil reducing the fertiliser bills and making the soil more friable for water and root infiltration, and more. And fungi are worth good money, delicious and/or medicine.

         Fonterra, propping up Pinus radiata since 200?
         • Robert Guyton 6.1.1.2.1

           11 April 2022 at 8:42 pm

           Of course. The problem is, those attracted to executive positions such as Fonterra et al. offer, don't know about such things. Their world is quite different from yours and mine. Sometimes, I forget this, but discussions on these issues, which I do have regularly, with those people, soon reminds me.
   • Poission 6.2

     11 April 2022 at 6:29 pm

     They got expansion (ie the manufacturing capacity) by enhanced efficiency the savings (by not requiring a boiler upgrade) were equivalent to the 10 year savings from the boilers in schools,and hospital program. of which the additional tax and overseas funds paid for.

     The milk fats and proteins equivalent manufacturing in the NH would not even get close to the carbon content per Kilo equivalent,Especially during the present Food,energy,and financial emergency.

     The additional interest bills have to be paid.
     • weka 6.2.1

       11 April 2022 at 7:05 pm

       If you're in a car heading to a brick wall at high speed, what is the value in slowing down a bit so that you hit at 90km/hour instead of 100km/hr?
       • Poission 6.2.1.1

         11 April 2022 at 7:30 pm

         You want to replace a vehicle that is 50% more efficient to run,with one in the NH that will increase food poverty is hardly an altruistic approach,especially when there is a food crisis.

         https://twitter.com/FAOnews/status/1512341944717955074?cxt=HHwWhMCynY2_9fwpAAAA

         Food and fuel poverty riots have already started in Peru,Sri lanka ,Parts of pakistan (which is Bartering for coal with Afghanistan)

         We do have a debt to the world 512$ billion dollars (gross) how are we going to pay for it?
         • DB Brown 6.2.1.1.1

           11 April 2022 at 7:44 pm

           The whole world apparently has a debt to the world.

           So who is this world? And will they give the world a break?

           We’re all aware of how fragile and flawed the food system is. Your graph only illustrates this point, it is not really a vote for more of the same.

           You reckon Fonterra’s sending food relief to Sri Lanka? – bloody good of them.
           • Poission 6.2.1.1.1.1

             11 April 2022 at 8:11 pm

             We have to find 3% of gdp to account for the interest rate increases coming.That allows no room for increased expenditure without increased debt.

             What savings would you suggest?

             Benefit constraint,removal of the winter energy subsidy that promotes the use of FF ?
             • DB Brown …

               11 April 2022 at 8:36 pm

               Again. The whole world is in debt – to whom? Because really, the whole world needs relief right now.

               This is the same economic drop the rates raise the rates smoke and mirrors nonsense we've seen before – where the sky is apparently falling but turns out it's just a massive investor class land grab. And really, the status quo for these situations is always 'fuck the poor'.

               One could see it coming like a bus in a cycle lane.

               You reckon if Fonterra can't burn coal we might need to take money off the poor?

               The milk must flow!
               • weka …

                 11 April 2022 at 8:45 pm

                 The whole world is in debt – to whom?

                 surely there is a Yes, Minister episode that explains this.
               • Poission …

                 11 April 2022 at 8:49 pm

                 At the moment we are burning coal and gas from the NI thermal plants to generate electricity to keep the servers on so you can comment on the internet.The TCC will run all night.

                 without cogeneration there would be a shortfall of 150mw,no matter how hard you blow those turbines wont spin by themselves.
                 • DB Brown …

                   11 April 2022 at 9:08 pm

                   So… we're using coal now, therefore we should not change?

                   Because economics? Because if we made a concerted effort to renewables the sky would fall? The system implode?

                   Because asking that we spare life as we know it is too great a price to pay when investors need their interest.

                   Did some mongrel impound their yachts?
         • weka 6.2.1.1.2

           11 April 2022 at 8:41 pm

           You want to replace a vehicle that is 50% more efficient to run,with one in the NH that will increase food poverty is hardly an altruistic approach,especially when there is a food crisis.

           No, I want us to stop driving the whole planet into a brickwall at high speed.

           Humans know how to grow food for everyone. Why won't they do that and make sure people don't starve or be malnourished? We don't need Fonterra to solve that problem.
           • Poission 6.2.1.1.2.1

             11 April 2022 at 9:11 pm

             You need Fonterra to pay to pay off overseas debt,it also creates high paying jobs in regional towns,that pay for local services and improvements.The workers also pay taxes.

             You cannot replace the rural economy with low GDP centres such as Auckland.

             Some of fonterras largest suppliers in Taranaki,and Canterbury are Iwi.Primary industry is a substantive part of the Maori economy,that is expanding through commercial purchasing of assets.

             If Green politicians want to stand in the market,and in public call for the closure of Agriculture,then they should,make a clear statement.

             Political extinction will be the outcome in provincial centres,it would be a Bob Brown moment.
             • weka …

               11 April 2022 at 9:17 pm

               We can create jobs in regional towns in other ways.

               Don't know what Green politicians you are referring to. The NZ Green Party wants a vibrant agricultural sector, it just wants it to be regenerative and sustainable. Not least because I'm sure they fully understand that current ag practices will suffer massive failures under climate change.
               • Poission …

                 11 April 2022 at 10:11 pm

                 What difference would we be from Sri Lanka.

                 When he came to power in 2019, President Rajapaksa decided to cut taxes. This meant the government had less money to buy foreign currency on the international markets to increase its reserves.

                 When Sri Lanka's currency shortages became a really big problem in early 2021, the government tried to stop the outflow of foreign currency by banning all imports of chemical fertiliser, telling farmers to use organic fertilisers instead.

                 This led to widespread crop failures.

                 Sri Lanka had to supplement its food stocks from abroad, which made its foreign currency shortage even worse.

                 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61028138
                 • RedLogix …

                   11 April 2022 at 10:30 pm

                   Yes – I have been following Sri Lanka for a week or so now – very disturbing.

                   And entirely predictable.
                 • weka …

                   11 April 2022 at 10:48 pm

                   I don't know what you are saying, why not just spell it out? Do you think it's not possible to grow food without artificial fertiliser? Or do you think NZ is incompetent at that?

                   or are you saying we will go hungry because we need the economy to provide food rather than growers?
                   • Poission …

                     11 April 2022 at 11:19 pm

                     i am saying that if we can not export sufficient goods ,there will not be enough to pay for O/S goods such as medicines,parts to repair infrastructure,fuel to get medical treatment etc.
                   • weka …

                     11 April 2022 at 11:27 pm

                     sure, but the argument isn't export vs no export. It's death inducing export vs life affirming ways of running the economy. Milk powder isn't the only thing we can do.
                   • weka …

                     11 April 2022 at 11:28 pm

                     and, how much of our standard of living do we need? Medicine obviously, but do we need cheap tents to take to a festival and then throw in the landfill? I don't think so. There's something profoundly wrong with what we do that's far in excess of essentials like medical treatment.

                     (and we could also reduce our reliance on medicines if push came to shove as well. Which it will).
                   • RedLogix …

                     12 April 2022 at 12:17 am

                     And when I suggest you dream of reverting to a pre-Industrial world you deny it everytime.
                   • weka …

                     12 April 2022 at 12:40 am

                     Maybe it's your lack of imagination? I don't find it hard to see a world that doesn't have mass consumed, shoddily made, disposable tents but still has first world medicine.

                     The pre-industrial stuff is completely in your own head. Nothing to do with my views.
             • DB Brown …

               12 April 2022 at 7:11 am

               You sure get ahead of yourself.

               You reckon the Maori economy will suffer, political parties will implode, and national debt will fail because we've got strong opinions about coal?

               Our credit rating just went up. Best in Show, or is that Dogs? Was it cancelling oil that damned us to shine? Because we've heard that story too. The sky is falling, etc, etc.

               You seem to think wanting Fonterra to clean its act up equates to wanting Fonterra to shut down. You are as defensive as a schoolboy that's just been pinching sweets.

               The pressures been on Fonterra et al for some time to do the right thing. Seems all they really did was pay for cheerleaders.

               I do want to shut down the whitewashing, absolutely. Had a gutsful of being gaslit and so has everyone else. Fonterra is our major polluter, it spends huge money on PR, while the stories I have about their practises go very dark and deep.

               I've seen lots of their projects, not one of them encompassing anything more than a farm or two, and of course, the glossy brochures. Wetlands, diverse crops, organic inputs etc. Whitewashing everything, all the way to the bank (to pay interest the whole world owes to the magical mystery central interest gathering facility).
7. Tiger Mountain 7

   11 April 2022 at 5:28 pm

   Good idea for a regular post WEKA. It is not either or when it comes to personal and system change. Look forward to seeing others contributions on what they are doing.
   I eat mainly plant based food these days, getting an EV and a bicycle!

   But also support whatever radical action is needed. Was not impressed when the school Climate Strike movement appeared to disappear up its own proverbial.
   • weka 7.1

     11 April 2022 at 6:35 pm

     Good to see XR out on the streets again in the UK this week!
     • Robert Guyton 7.1.1

       11 April 2022 at 6:58 pm

       The rebellion bit is exciting, the extinction bit, not so much.
       • weka 7.1.1.1

         11 April 2022 at 7:06 pm

         it was an interesting choice of term. Rebelling against extinction is exciting.
       • weka 7.1.1.2

         11 April 2022 at 7:07 pm

         you going to get some of this rain arriving overnight?
         • Robert Guyton 7.1.1.2.1

           11 April 2022 at 8:47 pm

           33mm is predicted for tonight and tomorrow morning. That's plenty, thanks! My forest garden will soak it up like a sponge, and hold it. Baked farm paddocks won't respond so well; Overland flow, with it's huge load of animal manure will go straight to the rivers. The nitrate-drenched soils will be rinsed clean, yes, that's right, into the rivers. Livestock farming! Gotta love it!
     • Belladonna 7.1.2

       11 April 2022 at 8:06 pm

       I really worry about the XR strategies.

       I get what they are doing, and why.

       But I'm concerned at the rising tide of anger I'm hearing from friends/family/colleagues in London (in particular – who seem to be bearing the brunt of it). The anger isn't being turned on the establishment, it's being increasingly directed at XR.

       And, I don't think that the people on the front line of these events/demonstrations are at all prepared for that anger to flash over, and for things to go catastrophically wrong. It takes a lot for phlegmatic British to riot over politics (though sport is another matter) – but it can happen, and it's not pretty when it does (cf Battle of Cable Street – yes, I know, completely different politics, it’s the riot aspect I’m getting at)

       Perhaps I'm just an old worry wart….
       • weka 7.1.2.1

         11 April 2022 at 8:48 pm

         I suppose I would ask what is the alternative?

         What are the Brits you are talking to saying is the problem?

         XR have been phenomenally successful at shifting public consciousness around climate. I don't think they're as successful now, but that might be distance and/or the normal pattern of settling down after the heady initial days.
         • Belladonna 7.1.2.1.1

           11 April 2022 at 9:20 pm

           What it boils down to is they say (by blocking the streets, shutting down bridges, etc.) XR are causing harm to ordinary people, rather than those with the power to make change. Grandma can't get to her oncology clinic; Mum can't get to daycare to collect her kids; Dad is stuck in traffic for hours, and has to work overtime (without pay) to finish deliveries. NB: Just shutting one road or bridge in London has massive traffic consequences across the whole city – including on public transport.
           The anger is being expressed at XR – not the government.

           Shifting the targeting to the powerful rather than the powerless would garner support, rather than what is rapidly turning into intolerance and hatred.
           • weka 7.1.2.1.1.1

             11 April 2022 at 9:39 pm

             I disagree. If they don't do those big transport hubs, and just do the banks and oil companies, then they won't be forcing the agenda. They will get arrested and be ignored and the MSM will report them as another bunch of climate activists doing whatever, oh look the Queen farted in church let's talk about that.

             If people want to go about their daily lives, they're in for a bloody big shock as the climate crisis deepens. I can only assume they don't see the urgency or seriousness of the situation. If this were 1940 would they be hating on the government or army for curfews and goods restrictions?
             • weka …

               11 April 2022 at 9:40 pm

               we have 1000 days to peak GHG emissions 🤷‍♀️ What else should XR so that is as effective?
               • Poission …

                 11 April 2022 at 9:48 pm

                 You want to provide a link to the scientific literature on that statement.
                 • weka …

                   11 April 2022 at 10:50 pm

                   sorry, typo, it's meant to be 1000 days (fixed now). References in the post links (it's a basic interpretation of the IPCC report).
               • Belladonna …

                 11 April 2022 at 9:53 pm

                 But is it effective?

                 What I'm seeing is opposition to them (from ordinary people) hardening. Along the lines of: XR are making my life miserable. They're the problem. Why would I believe anything they say?

                 They're not persuading large numbers of people to support them. They're not persuading the powers that be to change policy.
                 Apart from news headlines, what are they achieving?
                 • weka …

                   11 April 2022 at 10:55 pm

                   they did shift the debate, massively, in their first few years.

                   I don't know if the people you are listening to out number the people going 'ok, this is serious isn't, we need to change'.

                   I don't think XR are stupid though. Their earlier strategies made sense. It's possible they've lost the way, but I'd need to see some evidence of that. There were 'ordinary' people who objected to the first few rounds of this too.
                   • weka …

                     11 April 2022 at 10:56 pm

                     it's also likely that the reactionary forces trying to block XR are using their power to influence public opinion.

                     UK Labour ffs, just did this,

                     https://twitter.com/wekatweets/status/1513449923370381313
                   • Tony Veitch (not etc.) …

                     12 April 2022 at 8:11 am

                     "reactionary forces," like saying

                     “But is it effective?”
8. Robert Guyton 8

   11 April 2022 at 9:01 pm

   XR people know the risks from a frustrated public it's just that they believe the risk of extinction is far, far greater!
   • DB Brown 8.1

     11 April 2022 at 9:14 pm

     It's how and who they target.

     Disrupting the working class going to work just causes an already stressed people more stress.

     Disrupting the government and corporate bodies that facilitate the planets demise for profit… that puts the focus where it should be.
     • weka 8.1.1

       12 April 2022 at 12:24 pm

       still irks that occupation of parliament grounds wasn't done by climate activists.
9. Robert Guyton 9

   11 April 2022 at 9:09 pm

   This may not delight, but it's in the air tonight 🙂

   (Can't link, sorry, weka).

   THE DAKINI SPEAKS

   My friends, let’s grow up.

   Let’s stop pretending we don’t know the deal here.

   Or if we truly haven’t noticed, let’s wake up and notice.

   Look: Everything that can be lost, will be lost.

   It’s simple — how could we have missed it for so long?

   Let’s grieve our losses fully, like ripe human beings,

   But please, let’s not be so shocked by them.

   Let’s not act so betrayed,

   As though life had broken her secret promise to us.

   Impermanence is life’s only promise to us,

   And she keeps it with ruthless impeccability.

   To a child she seems cruel, but she is only wild,

   And her compassion exquisitely precise:

   Brilliantly penetrating, luminous with truth,

   She strips away the unreal to show us the real.

   This is the true ride — let’s give ourselves to it!

   Let’s stop making deals for a safe passage:

   There isn’t one anyway, and the cost is too high.

   We are not children anymore.

   The true human adult gives everything for what cannot be lost.

   Let’s dance the wild dance of no hope!

   © Jennifer Welwood

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