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Convoy protest 22/2/22

Written By: - Date published: 6:05 am, February 22nd, 2022 - 163 comments
Categories: covid-19 - Tags: , , ,

Day 15

Easing of restrictions to begin ‘well beyond’ Omicron peak – Ardern (RNZ)

Faeces thrown at police at Parliament protest (RNZ)

Covid-19: Ill protesters urged to stay away from hospital (RNZ)

Police install concrete blocks around Parliament anti-mandate protest (RNZ)

Q and A interview with Police Commissioner Andrew Coster

Why we need stories of strength not division (Jess Berentson-Shaw, Newsroom)

Police crack down, Maori will catch the brunt of it (Tina Ngata on understanding why police haven’t done something, twitter)

Figureheads and factions: the key people at the parliament occupation (Toby Manhire, The Spinoff)

Police wave white flag as occupiers dig in – why parliament stalemate won’t end anytime soon (Marc Daalder, Newsroom)

Number of protesters’ vehicles in vicinity of Parliament nearly doubles in two days (State of play on the ground, , Stuff)

Protest as of 18/02/22. Image Henry Cooke and Kate Newton, Stuff

List of reasons for Convoy 2022 NZ (NZ Truckies FB)

Letter of Demand (from protest organisers)

Newsroom: ‘Splintered realities’: How NZ convoy lost its way

Stuff: Inside the disorienting, contradictory swirl of the convoy, as seen through its media mouthpiece,

 

163 comments on “Convoy protest 22/2/22 ”

  1. I must say, after reading innumerable tweets and comments, that I’m getting really concerned for the mental health of many of these protestors.

    It seems the encampment is a petri dish of conspiracy theories and wacky ideas.

    For instance, the government microwaving children at the protest because their skin has turned red, or people shedding spike proteins which apparently turns blood black and kills lambs.

    Seriously, when all this is over, there’s going to be a lot of people who need serious psychiatric help.

    I didn’t think I’d ever say this, but I’m starting to feel sorry for these poor deluded souls!

    • Belladonna 1.1

      Good luck with getting any (psychiatric help that is) – well over a year's wait for a booking for non-crisis situations.

      Have real experience of this with friends with a teen who is self-harming. It wasn't until she was actually hospitalized, that they could get any psych support. Even being willing to pay – as many desperate parents would – there are no psychs available, no new clients being taken.

      This is a silent, but real, consequence of Covid (I don't care, and it doesn't matter if it's the result of lockdowns, or the general crisis that is Covid – the harm is real and the medical support just doesn't exist)

      • Descendant Of Smith 1.1.1

        Yeah a family member who had been brutally raped was suicidal, after some previous attempts, and rung mental health services who told her she couldn't get any help unless she actually attempted suicide.

        Part of the problem is bed numbers, part of the problem is staffing, part of the problem though is definitely attitude.

        • Belladonna 1.1.1.1

          TBH I think that it's staffing. Bed numbers only matter for crisis situations – and a big part of the problem is that there is no treatment unless it's a crisis (ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, not fence at the top). [That's not to say that we don't need more bed numbers right now, but that it's a crisis response, not necessarily a long-term need]

          The fact that you can't get private treatment either – makes me think that it really is that we just don't have enough psychiatrists for our population in normal times – let alone in a crisis.

          In order to qualify, you have to do a further 5 years on top of your medical degree & internship. Given that we're not training enough doctors for our needs as a country, it's not surprising that we don't have enough psychiatrists either.

      • Yeah, this government has a lot of catching up to do after 9 years of National neglect and underfunding.

        Rome wasn't built in a day.

        Which shouldn’t distract from the looming health and mental health disaster on the steps of Parliament.

        • Belladonna 1.1.2.1

          Not excusing National. But this health crisis has been building for more than 20 years. So both National and Labour are culpable.

          I don't see that the current Labour government has done anything about increasing the number of doctors being trained in NZ (which is evidently below the numbers needed to replace retirements, let alone deal with doctors leaving on OE). We can't rely on overseas imports for ever (and, actually, it's really hard for overseas specialists – apart from Oz, UK, US – to get accreditation in NZ).

          • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.2.1.1

            It was disappointing that NZ's two medical schools (Otago and Auckland) opposed the proposal for a third.

            University of Auckland labels proposed new Waikato medical school 'expensive folly' [18 October 2016]

            New Zealand needs a med school in Waikato to stop relying on foreign talent [26 June 2017]

            Breath of life for Waikato Medical School in cultural and rural partnerships [1 May 2021]
            It had initially pitched a bid to establish the country's third med school in 2016 focused on high needs communities, but the idea languished after lukewarm support from Labour.

            National Party Health Spokesperson Dr Shane Reti has been an advocate for the school since 2020.

            NZ needs more healthcare professionals (nurses, GPs, specialists) – we will carry on trying to 'recruit' these professionals from overseas, but it wouldn't hurt to (somehow) expand local training capacity, imho.

            https://www.waikato.ac.nz/major-projects/medical-school

            https://www.waikato.ac.nz/major-projects/medical-school/faqs

            • Belladonna 1.1.2.1.1.1

              Absolutely agree. Not convinced that Waikato is the best location – but open to being convinced.

              I'd like to see the government mandate that from next year Otago and Auckland medical schools must increase their intake by 100% and repeat for the next 5 years. Note, this will not result in any drop in the calibre of students – they're already turning away more than that number each year, who meet their entry requirements.

              And then tell all the other universities that the Govt is open to applications for the establishment of a 3rd medical school – to see what comes out of the woodwork.

              Then, I'd implement a rebate scheme for qualified doctors – for every year they work in a provincial hospital (or as a GP) they get 1/5 of their student loan forgiven. In 5 years they're free from debt (and more likely to have established roots in the provincial area). The big cities don't need this, nearly as much as the regions. And student debt is a big driver of the need to specialize as quickly as possible. I'd make specialization fees free, so long as you remain in the public system; if you then go private – then you can afford to pay back the cost.

              Pity no one's appointed me health tsar – do you think Little would take tips!

              • Shanreagh

                I'll join you Belladonna. I have some ideas about population based funding and how DHBs or who ever they will be in the future, should look at their populations and then tailor their operations around best meeting those needs.

                Too often we see requests for OTT medical equipment for hospitals who don't all need to have one while the health needs of their actual populations are not met. So a more or less made up example DHB wants a linear accelerator despite the nearest existing one being less than an hour away while they have a high population of children, particularly children with less than stellar living conditions that make them prone to glue ear, that are waiting for specialist consultations about grommets.

                Untreated glue ear can lead to deafness, can lead to falling behind at school, can lead to feeling alienated from society, can lead to crime can can lead to prison. The percentage of deafness and illiteracy in our prisons is mind blowing.

                https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018710556/could-a-hearing-check-help-prisoners-reintegrate-into-society

                Anyway when do we start?

        • alwyn 1.1.2.2

          When do you think they might begin to look at the problem?

          They have, after all, been in Government for nearly four and a half years now and they have done precisely nothing. Still Andy has been looking at how he can get rid of the DHBs and how to bring in an Apartheid structure to replace it.

          That really doesn't seem to me to be the most important thing to cencentrate on but to each his own.

    • Grafton Gully 1.2

      "children at the protest because their skin has turned red" They could have scarlet fever. I hope police or other authorities outside or in the protest will investigate if this is true.

      https://dermnetnz.org/topics/scarlet-fever

  2. Joe90 2

    Principled, dugnified and respectful.

    • vto 2.1

      and hence effective

      thanks joe90, great vid

    • Ad 2.2

      Mighty selective memory you've got there.

      Radicals | Television | NZ On Screen

      • swordfish 2.2.1

        .

        Romanticisation / Sacralization* of anyone of Māori descent (including excusing violent / anti-social behaviour & regularly endorsing extremist ethno-nationalist rhetoric) is the preferred means by which the Professional Middle Class Pakeha Woke signal their "unusually refined moral sensibilities", as they quietly go about consolidating their own power & privilege: as many miles away as possible from the social mayhem they so casually enable … remarkably good at volunteering other people (poorer / older) to do all the consequent suffering in the name of "Equity" … lower / low-middle income Pakeha & Asians the unofficial scapegoats to be systematically used & abused … in-group prestige enhancement among fellow PMCs taking priority at all times.

        [* And, indeed, of Minorities in general … hence (along with self-interest & power-hunger) the ex-boarding school Identitarians deep distaste for democracy & the free expression of ideas]

  3. Peter 3

    As things ramp up this morning protestors saying it's about the tamariki? They're using their kids as human shields. They put them in the situation and now going to complain that they are at risk and going to possibly be involved in something terrible?

    Put them in your cars and go home.

  4. PsyclingLeft.Always 4

    The .."protestors".. are basically selfish. Swimming in a rotten soup of dangerous delusions and anti Science conspiracy beliefs. And using their children ? Shame….

  5. Descendant Of Smith 5

    Immediately after someone drove a car at police this morning people there started claiming it was a plant. Almost instantaneous as A spread it was automatically B.

    Some people are recognising their health issues e.g. their anxiety is getting worse by being there, and leaving. I'm pleased they recognise that and are doing something about it. The stresses on society at the lower end – violence, struggle to pay bills and survive, uncertain tenancies, uncertain work, the closure of rural hospitals, the reduction in mental health services, etc are so so difficult for people. All the things we forecast in the 80's as would happen as the welfare state was partly but significantly dismantled.

    If anything should be learned from the protest it should be a reminder to ordinary New Zealanders about what happens when you no longer strive for a more egalitarian society, when you see Randian individualism as the ideal and are happy to exclude parts of society from the benefits of modern trade and its efficiencies. If there is a mandate to be gotten rid of it is the mandate for this feral divisional neo-liberalism. A mandate shared by the public, the business people and the politicians.

    Simple things like having medical services and support in rural areas, ensuring government jobs are spread around the country and not all centralised to main centers – even more possible today with modern technology, taxing the well-off at higher rates, bonding peoples student loans to work in smaller communities, supplying government housing for government workers, government departments having cadet programs to give youth a good start and employment, and so on. None of these things are that difficult apart from probably rural health services – putting hospitals back in rural areas. With rents spiralling it seems logical that significant numbers of poor people move away from services to rural areas where living is cheaper but services are practically non-existent. Some rural places now don't even have a dentist. We reap what we sow and there are now on top of that plenty of people willing to take advantage of the poor and disaffected.

    These things can all be improved but we need to paradigm shift the government to a new more inclusive economic mandate. That continues to be the real issue. This protest is just a symptom.

    • RosieLee 5.1

      This makes too much sense – it'll never catch on.

    • Belladonna 5.2

      Absolutely agree about these common sense approaches to distributing the 'wealth' across NZ (not just dollars, but jobs and services).

      Surely this lockdown has shown that the vast majority of the Wellington bureaucrats can work just as well in Winton, Gisborne and Kaitia as in Wellington.

      Not to mention the vast collection of irreplaceable art, history and literature (Te Papa, Archives NZ, National Library) which are concentrated bang on top of a major earthquake fault – a disaster waiting to happen.

    • Stuart Munro 5.3

      Well said.

    • weka 5.4

      very good comment DoS. The further collapse of rural health services in some places from the mandates must be a big blow. This is what I have been meaning when I say we could have looked after people during the mandates not just said too bad, fuck off. This on top of decades of neoliberalism is just way too much.

    • Anne 5.5

      So well put DOS.

      I wonder if lprent could create a digital frame of flashing neon lights so that everybody gets to read it.

      • Descendant Of Smith 5.6.1

        Quite similar indeed. Was an interesting read. Takes me back to the discussion around zombie towns some years ago.

        Our forbears who developed the welfare state had a good understanding of the class dynamics – the well-off have never lost that. They know when they espouse things like "lower our business taxes so we can afford to pay staff more" exactly what will happen. More money to them, less money to the workers.

        I've said before that the working class got sucked into believing they were middle class – classic divide and conquer.

        • Craig H 5.6.1.1

          Quite so, election advertising from the earlier days of the Labour Party often included class references, for example.

    • Hetzer 5.7

      Well said DoS

    • A good start would be with a genuine wealth tax like the one in the Green's manifesto at the last election.

      Watch Labour pathetically duck this option.

    • Robert Guyton 5.9

      The driver of the "ram-car" didn't look like a plant…

    • mpledger 5.10

      This isn't people from the lower end or at least it wasn't at the start when I was in that area. These were rich people with big utes towing caravans and big motorhomes. They were white and middle-aged and acted entitled and arrogant. They perceived themselves as heroes rescuing the rest of us. Their signs read like the type of stuff that got posted on whaleoil and kiwibog.

      • Descendant Of Smith 5.10.1

        Yep there was that too. That want their beloved rightish National government back.

        That's why I also mentioned.

        "there are now on top of that plenty of people willing to take advantage of the poor and disaffected."

  6. PsyclingLeft.Always 6

    The New Zealand Herald reported that a white car has been driven into a crowd of police and protesters.

    The driver of the vehicle was wearing a security tag around his neck – a security tag worn by many of the protest security.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/tempers-flare-parliament-protest

    I really hope he was ID’d if not arrested then….

  7. Peter 7

    In the Henry Cooke clip: a sign saying"Freedom to choose."

    And under it Cooke is saying he has freedom of movement in Parliament grounds because it's his workplace. What? It's his workplace so he should be allowed to roam freely?

    Excuse me? He's entitled to be there. Because. Just because of all sorts of reasons. Like he's a citizen.

    • weka 7.1

      I think it's about the believes around sovereignty and that the government is illegitimate. Hence they feel they've claimed the space and can keep people out. Although in that clip the Māori woman was talking as if she has mana whenua.

  8. Sanctuary 8

    People dumping shit into the wastewater drains. Russell Coutts turning up. Perhaps he'll sing "Soiling Away?"

    • Nic the NZer 8.1

      Coutts will probably blame any waste water damage to the harbour on the govt as well. I expect he infered the govt was responsible for sailing regulations as the actual people involved have met him.

      Would be best for his image if he quietly decided Wellingtons actually a bit dangerous just now.

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 8.2

      https://www.facebook.com/educatetoeliminate2014/

      On the shit dumping…I was listening to Radio NZ yesterday…about Harbour cleanup…and how water was just becoming Clean again ! Shame

      • Shanreagh 8.2.1

        I suspect that some of this dumping will be from the worker & homeless owned expensive campervans at the protest….they will not want to move from their posse or only minimally and so position the waste outlet tank over a storm water drain, lift the lid and voila the van shits on our beaches. They have moved from sitting shitting in vans over the Cenotaph, in the grounds and onto having inanimate objects doing the shitting for them. Perhaps coprofiliacs?

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophilia

        Faecal smearing

        'Psychologists note that scatolia tends to occur in individuals with a history of obsessive-compulsive disorder, anxiety, schizophrenia, depression, bipolar disorder, ADD, autism or post-traumatic stress, especially trauma related to physical or sexual abuse. The author Donna Williams who has autism, points out that rectal digging and fecal smearing serve many real purposes that are often overlooked by caregivers and medical providers:

        1. Provides a sense of control over one’s body and environment when other areas of life are out of control
        2. Provides a sense of ownership over one’s actions
        3. Expresses feelings of anger, frustration, helplessness and powerlessness
        4. Prevents unwanted social interaction
        5. May be associated with other comforting emotional experiences
        6. May be part of a personal ritual that provides comfort
        7. May be part of an obsession that is spiraling out of control

        In each of these cases, care and attention must be given to the individual’s quality of life to make sure all needs are being met. Inpatient psychiatric treatment may be needed for severe anxiety or OCD."

        https://www.friendshipcircle.org/blog/2015/04/27/6-facts-about-fecal-smearing-that-you-need-to-know/

    • Stuart Munro 8.3

      I fancy an opera myself, it fits right in there:

      The Meistersinger

      The Pearl Fishers

      La Wallee

      Il Pooflingers

      Sung by a decent tenor in Italian, full of traditional recurring themes like death and madness, it could be the next Fitzcarraldo.

  9. Adrian 9

    Descendent..the one thing I have a problem with is your idea that rural hospitals are an answer. The key thing in emergency care is the Golden Hour, if you can get an accident or cardiac or whatever victim to the best care possible within an hour, the outcome for that person is hugely advanced. The sort of equipment needed to do that is simply not possible in small areas, it needs to be centralised to an area serviceable by helicopters within well less than an hour, also that sort of gear needs many medical staff because of its complexity. Far more deaths would and used to be the case when hospitals were fragmented.

    • Descendant Of Smith 9.1

      That's the extreme end though – basically the same issue private hospitals have – they don't have the equipment to deal with the heart attack on the operating table or the car accidents. There is plenty of stuff however that used to be done well by rural hospitals such as hip replacement operations, varicose veins, etc.

      Not suggesting rural areas have a Middlemore but certainly much more services than they have now. It is about building a community and a hospital service being part of that community. Public health nurses for instance, better services for the aging population, the sense of pathways to quality jobs for local people.

    • Belladonna 9.2

      However, most medical treatment in hospitals aren't emergencies. And, it is a huge barrier, to have to drive for 2 hours (or more) to a central hub hospital.
      Things like: maternity care; dentistry; routine, non-emergency surgery; ear, nose, throat; psychiatric services. All things which are readily available (well, in theory, anyway) in Auckland, but not so much in Wairoa.

      Many of these small towns are struggling to attract a GP – for the most basic of routine health care.

      By all means, airlift the crisis patients to the nearest hub hospital – but it doesn't take away the need for the more routine local hospital services.

      • Adrian 9.2.1

        But Belladonna if you can’t get a GP to those areas how the hell are you going to get an orthopaedic surgeon or two or an an anaesthetist. Rural hospitals were all we had when transport options were severely limited, now the standard of medical care far surpasses anything even the big cities had then.

        • Descendant Of Smith 9.2.1.1

          Bonding was part of the picture back then and can be used again. Some then found they liked it and were happy to stay. Quite a few of the rural hospital staff didn't move to urban areas when their jobs went – they went overseas – we lost many trained and quality people in that way.

          Often the GP issue is overwork and lack of resourcing / collegial support. Having a bigger local medical community would help.

        • Belladonna 9.2.1.2

          Massively increasing the intake at the medical schools would be one solution (for the last 20 years we haven't been training enough doctors to replace retiring ones). Breaking down the medical guild, who are deliberately limiting numbers in order to increase their salaries (same reason they put barriers in the way of immigrant doctors)

          Offering a rebate scheme for medical fees (for every year worked in the provinces you get 1/5 of your student loan forgiven). After 5 years the doctor is debt free, and has probably put down roots in the region.

          Offering fee-free specialization (being a GP requires an additional 2 years post medical qualification – being a psychiatrist, requires an additional 5 years). No fees so long as you're working in the public system (for, say 10 years), if you go private or go overseas in that time, then you're liable for the fees.

          And, not only doctors: radiologists, anaesthatists, palliative care specialists, midwives. You name it, in the medical field, NZ has a critical shortage.

          All of these have answers. The problem is that the current DHB structure isn't interested in the best solutions for the local community, they're interested in the cheapest solution for the DHB. Now, you can say this is the result of underfunding (and it probably is). But it's also a cultural issue, where the people at the top just simply do not understand the reality of life in rural NZ.

          And, a big part of the problem is thinking that every hospital has to offer the same level of medical care. They don't. Routine surgery and routine health care can absolutely be safely carried out in provincial hospitals.

  10. Sanctuary 10

    Wow, yesterday they threw shit at the cops.

    Today a car was driven at police and acid was thrown, injuring three cops.

    This mob of crazies just forfeited all protection of police restraint. They are on borrowed time.

    • Muttonbird 10.1

      Animals. Send in the water cannons.

      If we had them.

    • Andrew Miller 10.2

      It’s a plant/false flag/tiny minority/understandable/fault of the government for not negotiating (delete as applicable) and it’s outrageous that you have any expectation the decent majority and their reasonable demands do anything to distance themselves.

      • Shanreagh 10.2.1

        In that same vein here is Max Rashbrooke's take…This thought has crossed my mind. The cries that we will have 'othering' and it is bad and that the majority has to do the hard yards. This is not a protest like the Springbok tour one where those for and against were more in balance and society was rent. I think in any times past people have drawn a line around those who may be untrustworthy, a danger to society. It is a human response. It is not othering, it is a protective response.

        In the meantime here is an idea I had yesterday to help alleviate the problems poor/worker protestors may have

        Anyway I do have a suggestion

        that tents

        from DSW/Work and Income / job centre be set up on the perimeter to advise on benefits, look at current entitlements or when these might kick in

        HCNZ to check that people who are homeless are on waiting lists

        Private sector job agencies /private sector rental agencies

        CAB

        Well protected testing station for Covid?

        People who want to get ahead, live with the pandemic and whatever it will bring can make appts to see and talk to the people in the tents

        Only condition was that they are masked and observe the usual physical distancing rules.

        Pie in sky, leftie, middle class stuff perhaps but the offer would be there to help them help themselves

        It is becoming increasingly clear to me that perhaps a motivating factor is the adrenaline fuelled possibility of a running, stone or whatever throwing stoush a la some of the football crowd violence in the UK & Europe.

        • Andrew Miller 10.2.1.1

          Pretty much entirely agree with Rashbrooke.
          I think there’s a lot of projecting going on around serious issues that deserve our attention, that somehow this mop are a manifestation of more profound and much larger issues.

          Whilst some people are being deliberately disingenuous others are well meaning, but the problem becomes if you keep seeing through that lens you’re not dealing with reality of the tiny unrepresentative mob trying to hold us all to ransom.

    • Robert Guyton 10.3

      "Some officers also had human waste thrown over them by protestors.

      Deliberately infecting someone with disease is a serious offence punishable by 14 years imprisonment. Likewise attempting to do so attracts a significant penalty.

      Police will be investigating and will hold to account those identified as responsible for these actions."

      https://www.facebook.com/photo/

      • Coventrie 10.3.1

        On whether it was human excrement – since many of the protesters have brought dogs with them, the footpaths all around are decorated accordingly, and the smell is spreading 🙁

    • The government is playing this well. They are allowing the many idiots among the protestors to shoot themselves in the foot so that the whole protest becomes hated by the vast majority of NZ people, and then the police will move in to general acclaim.

  11. PsyclingLeft.Always 11

    One person has been arrested after driving a car into officers at the anti-mandate protest at Parliament, police say.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/parliament-protest-arrest-after-car-driven-police

    So got the POS. Great work !

  12. observer 12

    And so it continues: more and more violence, and less and less relevance to whatever they went there for. Only a matter of time now before somebody is seriously injured or killed. Cars are weapons. Don't drive them into crowds, drive them away, and go home.

    For bleak comedy, let's check the Stuff live updates, reporting:

    "The protesters appear split about what they should be doing. Some all calling to form a line while others are saying it's time for breakfast".

    Vote breakfast.

  13. The person who hosts https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/ got covid. His experience:

    This Omicron variant is NOT a cold! Over the past four days I've been more sick than I've ever been. It's definitely the worst sore throat I've ever had. This virus sucks. I don't know why they all say it's "mild"; it's anything but mild. I know two other people who got it at the same I did, all of us fully vaxxed, and all of us were more sick than we'd ever been.

    How long before we get some seriously sick people on the steps of Parliament?

  14. Ad 14

    The Combined Protest Groups called on the Government to take note of Australian Deputy PM Barnaby Joyce's comments about similar protests.

    "The worst thing you can do to any substantial group that is isolated is tell them they deserve to be isolated," Joyce told the Sydney Morning Herald.

    Covid 19 Omicron outbreak, Parliament protest: Tempers flare – police say 'genuine protesters no longer in control' – NZ Herald

    Always fun getting commentary from Australia.

    • Andrew Miller 14.1

      That’s a nice statement in the abstract from Joyce, but does the square root of FA in telling us what you do about a group of science deniers throwing literal shit.

      • Ad 14.1.1

        Monkeys do the same when they're kept in a zoo.

        • Muttonbird 14.1.1.1

          Bit racist there, Ad. I'll pull you up on it even if others won't.

          • Ad 14.1.1.1.1

            Other highly sentient beings who have lost all power throw shit around, since contempt for their captors is the only weapon they have.

            Same behaviour seen in jails.

            But top work on the woke-a-thon.

            • Muttonbird 14.1.1.1.1.1

              Heading down the rabbit hole too? Say hi to Steve Bannon when you get to the bottom.

            • Andrew Miller 14.1.1.1.1.2

              Funny you talk of woke a thon and then come up with that word salad.
              Given that unlike prisoners they’re free to leave and go home anytime they like, that’s a nice bit of rhetorical slight of hand pretending they’re ‘captives’.
              You can play whatever word games you like, but you’re still choosing to dehumanise those chucking the excrement far more than anyone condemning them.

        • Andrew Miller 14.1.1.2

          Huh?

          Aside from the racism, what exactly are you arguing here? That they should have been allowed to spread out all over central Wellington beyond parliament, causing whatever manner of disruption and that any attempt to at least contain them to parliament grounds will inevitably be met with having human excrement thrown at you?

          Do you want to try think that one through again…

          • Ad 14.1.1.2.1

            Oh please this is where the left turn into tired dilettantes.

            The idea that pouring human waste into Wellington Harbour over a few days is a crime, would have the whole of Wellington City Council executed since they have done it by the tonne for years.

            The Commissioner of Police has likely watched Takaparawha Day 507.

            • Andrew Miller 14.1.1.2.1.1

              It’s telling that I’d talked about throwing shit at the cops and you pivot to tipping waste down the drain rather than honestly addressing the point, but if you want to play whataboutery over polluting the harbour then good luck to, but I would suggest you’re digging yourself a hole you’ll find it increasingly difficult to get out of.

              stop digging maybe?

              • alwyn

                "throwing shit at the cops".

                Is there any evidence that they actually did this? The only thing justifying it appears to be that the PM claimed it had happened. From the distance she has been keeping back I am not too sure about this being a reliable piece of evidence.

                • Andrew Miller

                  ?????

                  You’re arguing the PM made it up?

                  • Peter

                    Taihoa. Remember we're in the age of making stuff up. Someone made up a story about shit being thrown at cops. And the story has become widespread. Far fetched nonsense.

                    In contrast there's another story that's come up in Wellington. And of course it's true. If you've been vaccinated you need to be aware you've been injected with something that creates your body to make evil little invisible parasite things called spike proteins. I know you haven't been vaccinated because I have it on good authority from the protest that those who've been vaccinated are having heart attacks and strokes. If you're reading this it's likely you haven't been stricken, = haven't been vaccinated.

                    (Cut yourself and see if your blood is black!!)

                    Some of the mob run Wellington believe the most bizarre crap imaginable. Nonsense, piffle bewilderingly demonstrably stupid.

                    And you get some who back them and their grasp on reality who get their tits in a tangle about protestors throwing shit at cops. They didn't see it with their own eyes so it didn't happen. That's 2-3 year old developmental level.

                • Andrew Miller

                  RNZ, The Herald & Stuff have all reported it.
                  Are you saying they just repeated something the PM claimed with no evidence?

                • observer

                  Why do you do this, Alwyn?

                  It takes a few seconds to check (I searched for "NZ Police", first result).

                  We know you grasp at dishonest diversions, but pretending that this only comes from the PM is not even a smart diversion. You could save yourself from daily embarrassment by learning how to Google.

                  https://www.police.govt.nz/news/release/update-protest-activity-0?ref=/news&search=&cmin=&cmax=

            • Muttonbird 14.1.1.2.1.2

              Joined the Groundswell crowd now? I see a pattern.

        • Robert Guyton 14.1.1.3

          Monkeys and apes, Ad. You are correct.

  15. Reality 15

    As suspected, overseas funding coming from Canada. All that free food, hay bales, portaloos and whatever else for these "people". No wonder so many turned up for a free rampage. But wait, some delicate protesters are staying in a hotel! Wonder if Russell Coutts camped out in the mess and filth. No way. Perhaps he could offer some a stay in his mansion for a holiday and take them yachting.

    • felix 15.1

      Any reason for putting "people" in quotes? Aside from the usual fascist tactic of denying the humanity of a target population of course.

      Throughout history, the people who are deliberately dehumanising their opponents are never the good guys. Ever.

  16. Sanctuary 16

    How dumb does Luxon's speech yesterday already appear in the light of this morning events? Dog whistling to the protesters the day before they spray cops with acid will just drive National's support down again.

    • Andrew Miller 16.1

      National have botched how to respond to COVID as an opposition from Day1. I thought they might have been learning, but apparently not.

  17. Adrian 17

    Right on the money on Luxon and as for that turncoat dickhead Coutts saying you needn’t listen to “ so called academic experts with too many letters after their names “. who the fuck does he think built his boats, a bunch of Sea Scouts with a tack hammer and some old boxing. I’ll give you some letters to stick after your name ..fuck off back to Remuera you self entitled shithead.

  18. Andrew Miller 18

    “Avoid getting arrested. Avoid all the rumbles with them. We have won this already."

    Says former Nat MP Matt King.

    Well if you’ve won this already, surely you can all bugger off home?

  19. observer 19

    Turns out the victims of this "people's protest" are those low-paid workers at the bottom of the pile. Who is protesting for them?

    https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/22-02-2022/supermarket-staff-on-serving-protesters-its-scary-i-just-dont-want-to-go-in-there

    Perhaps somebody who still thinks this is an anti-mandate protest could explain how these vulnerable workers are responsible for government decisions, and also explain how a young immuno-compromised woman wearing a mask at work is impinging on the protesters' freedom.

    • Andrew Miller 19.1

      It’s the most fundamental question which I’m yet to see any of the mobs apologists address head on.

      If they actually got what they claim they want are saying?

      – Anyone concern with the risk of sharing work/public space with the unvaccinated should just suck it up and get on with things and deal with consequences as they fall regardless that they may be extremely serious.

      – That the unvaccinated don’t present any additional risk (incl to the immune compromised) any longer (or ever) and evidence suggesting otherwise is bs.

      – That those concerned about the risks from the unvaccinated can just quit their jobs/stay home, our rights trump yours.

      It’s surely one of those, yet I’m yet to see a coherent and straight answer.

    • mpledger 19.2

      I don't see how New World Thorndon can be still open. It should have been shut down because it's an unsafe place to work. The owners must just see the $$$$$ and not give a shit that the harm that is being done to their workers and how much support they are giving to the protest. I think if you oppose the protest and the protesters then you should avoid shopping at New World.

      • Andrew Miller 19.2.1

        I understand your point, but without knowing more details you’ve got to think there’s a bunch of things to consider.

        – Would the impact on staff by shutting the whole Supermarket out weigh any problems caused by having to serve the protesters?

        – Is there a way management can minimise the risk without having to close?

        It’s a very large, very popular supermarket with a large staff. I’m not wanting to minimise how unpleasant dealing with mob probably is, but I think you’re being a tad unfair to think the only consideration is stopping that v profit.

      • alwyn 19.2.2

        I visited the place yesterday. Now I did it by coming down Mulgrave St and leaving via the top of Molesworth St heading away from the demonstration scene so I wasn't anywhere near Parliament but I wouldn't have known from where I was that there was anything going on down at the other end of Molesworth St.

        "unsafe place to work"? Nah.

        • Andrew Miller 19.2.2.1

          Nice attempt at deflect, the point wasn’t about where the area per se was unsafe (I agree it isn’t), but about the specifics of serving the protesters as a staff member of Thorndon NW.

          • alwyn 19.2.2.1.1

            The person I was replying to said " It should have been shut down because it's an unsafe place to work.".

            Well you mightn't think it is unsafe. But mpledger certainly did, and said so. Why do you think the demonstrators will head all the way up Molesworth St to go to the Supermarket so they can abuse the people working there?

            Why do you seem to believe they do?

            • Andrew Miller 19.2.2.1.1.1

              Omg, your comprehension skills seem to be quite limited.
              He was responding to the linked Spinoff article where staff described being intimidated by the store being swamped by massless protesters.
              It wasn’t about safety in the general area

              Are you calling the staff liars or mere dismissing their concerns?
              As to why, well you’d have to ask the protesters but as there’s but there’s been countless reports of threats, abuse and intimidation since they arrived in Wellington it sadly appears in keeping with their general behaviour.
              Are all these people lying?

  20. Sanctuary 20

    Police Assistant Commissioner Richard Chambers complete with stab proof vest is now fronting the media. Interesting change in optics – a Maori cop dressed for enforcement action has replaced the political cops fronting the media, pointing to a more muscular operational response.

  21. observer 21

    Winston's arrived at the camp!

    Gonna be such fun watching righties pivot from "you installed Ardern, you treacherous, vengeful, corrupt doddery old sleazeball" to "Good on ya, Winnie!".

    • Robert Guyton 21.1

      I hope no one throws poos at Winston – his suit!!

    • Blade 21.2

      A great man. A kaumatua and man of the people. He has come to Wellington for forgiveness. We forgive you…great one.yes

    • swordfish 21.3

      .

      Eyeing the disaffected Labour .vote … a sizeable segment of whom will be former NZF supporters (given the hefty transfers recorded between the two parties in New Zealand Election Study data over the past two decades … and esp the huge NZF to Lab swing at the last Election).

    • observer 21.4

  22. Ad 22

    Good to see Jim Bolger calling this Prime Minster out: "What is she afraid of?"

    Covid 19 Omicron outbreak, Parliament protest: Former PM Jim Bolger urges meeting – NZ Herald

    "I think the Government, and I'd include all the other parties in government … just need to get off their high horse and try and identify credible spokespeople as the police clearly have.”

    • weka 22.1

      who are the credible spokespeople?

    • McFlock 22.2

      When I protested on parliament grounds in the 1990s (no stalinists or maoists were there) Bolger didn't come out and have a chat, that I recall. Maybe we should have been throwing noxious liquids at the cops?

    • Muttonbird 22.3

      Not happening. They attacked the Police with battery acid this morning, and shit yesterday.

      What kind of PM would legitimise that?

      Not a very good one, I'd suggest.

    • Andrew Miller 22.4

      Did Jimbo comment on why he assumed those present would all leave after Arden had spoken to these ‘credible spokespersons’.

      Or did Jimbo tells us what the PM should/could say that she already hasn’t that would see them leave?
      Without addressing those two points his intervention is worthless.

    • Joanne Perkins 22.5

      Goodness gracious Ad, what has got your knickers in such a twist? Would you front up to a crowd where a significant number of people had threatened to put you to death, I'm damn sure I wouldn't. Why should she? As far as I'm concerned the moment that threat was issued this crowd lost any credibility and any right to demand attention form any politician, Winnie is just being Winnie, touting for votes, same as Seymour.

  23. observer 23

    Statement from Wellington Free Ambulance.

    In short, minus the diplomatic language: "The so-called "leaders" can't control the people who threaten our safety, so you're on your own now".

    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2202/S00183/wellington-free-ambulance-protest-action-22-feb.htm

    • PsyclingLeft.Always 23.1

      They could try applying the good old poultice. Shortage of cowpats so any old shit'll have to do………………

  24. joe90 24

    Freedom ambulance is on it’s own.

    an hour ago

    Wellington Free Ambulance will no longer send staff to Parliament grounds

    Wellington Free Ambulance has released a statement to say it will no longer send its paramedics into the protest area.

    Here's the full statement: As of 3pm Wellington Free Ambulance has made the difficult decision to no longer enter the protest area at Parliament.

    This decision has been made to prioritise the safety of our paramedics following the increase in hostilities experienced both this morning and yesterday.

    As the only provider of ambulance services in the region, we will continue to support people requiring urgent medical attention, but this will be at a designated safe space outside the recently established cordon.
    It has been widely publicised that the protesters have established their own medical support within the cordon area. The Wellington Free Ambulance Tactical Emergency Support team will remain behind the cordon to support the NZ Police response.

    Please be assured that if residents, people at their place of work or shopping in or close by the protest zone require support we will respond as per standard procedure.

    Over the past 95 years Wellington Free Ambulance has responded to emergencies for anyone, anywhere, no matter the circumstances and this decision has not been made lightly. We hope that our community of supporters understand the need to prioritise the safety and wellbeing of our paramedics during this time of ongoing unrest in the Capital.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/300523186/live-police-with-helmets-riot-shields-arrive-at-parliament-more-concrete-bollards-moved-in

    edit:

  25. weka 25

    Does anyone know if the concrete blocks are something that already exist, or do they look like they've been made specially for this protest?

    • weka 25.1

      (wish they'd stop calling them bollards).

    • Muttonbird 25.2

      Similar are used in construction for propping tilt slabs and the like. Some look new though.

      • weka 25.2.1

        been wondering if this was part of the delay with police action – planning the whole road strategy and getting the things made. How long would the concrete take to set?

        • Muttonbird 25.2.1.1

          Guessing a bit, but they could probably be moved in a couple of days. Would be quite weak though because I don't think they have re-enforcing steel inside, and they would be dark in colour. A week or more to go light grey like those in the images.

    • joe90 25.3

      They're routinely made with concrete slops and returns to readymix yards.

      • weka 25.3.1

        what are they used for?

        • joe90 25.3.1.1

          There's usually a row of moulds, sized for handling, in the yard with a couple of re-bar hoops sticking out for use as lifting points. The batching plant and trucks are emptied and flushed between mixes so concrete that goes into the moulds could be anything from high-strength super brews to the gumboot stuff used for garden paths. Consequently, they end up with great lumping bits of multi-layered concrete of variable quality and strength that aren't much use for anything other than being great lumping bits of concrete.

          • weka 25.3.1.1.1

            so not necessarily the size and shape of the police ones? Trying to figure out if they had to make them this week or not.

            • joe90 25.3.1.1.1.1

              A lump of concrete that size would need to cure for week or more before you could handle it and not worry about it falling to pieces.

        • felix 25.3.1.2

          Often A lot of those waste-concrete blocks get used on farms. Silage pits are made by stacking them up.

  26. rod 26

    Jim Bolger. Just another washed up has been.

  27. ianmac 27

    They are saying that the wooden pallets that sit under the concrete blocks have allowed the protesters to insert a jigger of some sort and shift the blocks. The police are removing the pallets.

    • Robert Guyton 27.1

      I wondered about the vulnerability of those than I first saw them – should we celebrate the ingenuity of the people at the occupation (they are us?).

  28. Peter 28

    So on the news tonight, anyone who does anything stupid, nasty, vicious, whatever, at the protest is a police plant. According to the 'brains trust' there.

    Shall I float the story that the proliferation of P, any murders and road tragedies are actually down to police too, trying to make work for themselves and suggest they are indispensible?

    The mental defectives in the Wellington mob would believe that.

    • Blade 28.1

      The protesters lack of strategy. Lack of PR…means they have no one with military training onsite. That's a good thing. Otherwise police could have been locked out of the parliamentary surrounds for ages, depending on the amount of protesters that could be mustered.

      • Shanreagh 28.1.1

        But, but, but they have Kelvyn Alp who is just itching to get his military skills going again as he served in the New Zealand Army from 1995 to 1996. (I wonder why the short duration?)

        In 1996 Alp set up the New Zealand Armed Intervention Force as a mercenary organisation, later transforming it into a para-military, anti-banking, pro-people rights movement – although it was referred to in the media as a Māori separatist organisation.It is now defunct.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvyn_Alp

        • Blade 28.1.1.1

          The proof will be in the pudding. As yet, I see no pudding, let alone military skills. Unless the large number of Maori in the front line is a secret strategy called ”be a patsy and win a prize to Auckland Regional Amusement Park.

  29. observer 29

    These eye-witness accounts from reporters on the ground are a much better guide to the protesters' "leadership" (lack of) than armchair reckons from those who think "engaging" is only a matter of Jacinda picking up the phone and having a chat with the boss.

    Central to the problem is the protesters' inability to control the minority who can't resist acting out when threatened. Some of the more reasonable protesters call for understanding, saying they shouldn't be painted with the same brush.

    However, the nature of this protest is the very reason why so-called leaders can't exercise authority. There are various groups, all with their own interests, who occupy Parliament and agreement between them is understood to be rare.

    Police claim to have informed protesters of what would take place this morning and yet no one rallying against officers appeared to know the plan. The consequence of poor collaboration is when incidents like this happen, all hell breaks loose because there is no clear leadership structure.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/parliament-protest-why-today-is-a-turning-point-after-riot-police-action/G3HTNITGW6JTZ2OYVIWACEAIL4/

  30. Still talk of hangings! Paranoia rampant at the protest. Some (most?) of these people are sick!

  31. Here is a quote I found by the Canadian Ambassador to the UN on the Ottawa Truckers protest

    A truck is not a speech. A horn is not a voice. An occupation is not a protest. A blockade is not freedom, it blocks the liberty of all. A demand to overthrow a government is not a dialogue. The expression of hatred is not a difference of opinion. A lie is not the truth.

    — Bob Rae (@BobRae48) February 20, 2022

    It has relevance as a comment on some of the tactics used by the protestors at Parliament grounds.

  32. OMG, now our government is compared to North Korea for playing Baby Shark at the protestors!

    Is there no depth their insanity can plummet to?

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