I think it is a real shame that the left’s problems in winning the hearts and minds of the majority – people who have the most to gain from moving leftwards and the most to fear from the current political settings – is relentlessly framed as a problem of being better manipulators, liars, and propagandists.
So, our “representatives” spend more and more time and money learning the dark arts in order to what? beat the devil* at his own game under his own rules and referees, on his playing fields?
I guess if all you want is to be given a wee pretend turn at ruling hell every now and then it’s a winning strategy. And I think it’s part of the long term plan of the likes of Crosby-Textor to have them do so. Because what Labour in particular, have to do for their “reward” is exactly what they want them to.
Have we really bought into the idea that hatred, irrational fear, prejudice, greed, elitism, authoritarianism, rivalry and malice are the real motivators of human behaviour all all our better instincts are mere sentiment to be occasionally appeased with empty slogans?
Are you suggesting that the left should entirely eschew any understanding of propaganda? That we should nobly ignore Lynton Cosby because our cause is better than this?
And if the cost of these higher ideals is to continue losing elections more or less indefinitely – are you happy with that price?
Probably not – and you would argue that I’m putting words into your mouth. Well if so … then could you clarify how you think the left should respond? If embracing it is supping with the devil, and ignoring it means electoral impotency – then what DO you have in mind?
Yup – hearts and minds. Exactly what Cosby does so well.
some left wing politicians with authenticity and sincerity, both of the people and for the people, would go a bloody long way. Short of that then yeah, you’d need people who can do a better job of faking it and who have better sound bites.
If you imitate the devil, what makes you think you can stop? Because there’s always another election to win, so compromises in principle and message always need to be made to get elected.
Your dichotomy isn’t between victory and failure, it’s just between two different types of losing.
I actually think people see the LP and whoever its leader is as constantly in a kind of cowering position (metaphorically)… its leaders stand up straight and look people in the eye when challenged about so-called cosying up to business. They stand tall and don’t apologise. However when it comes to standign for the vulnerable, imo, they do it from this cowered position… almost apologetic if not joining in (man on the roof) and thereby perpetuate the notion that all those who are not small business or big business are less than and only worthy of what we want to throw to them.
I believe if someone from Labour stood up and was apologetic for wanting to help the vulnerable, who used real stories, to educate people about the suffering some go through they would be seen as far more authentic and viable than the current cowering to be a softer national.
I think even when people don’t agree with someone they will admire their fight, their sincerity, etc…
LP leaders don’t gve kiwis the chance to say
“you know, I hadn’t thought about it that way”
or
“of course I want those people to have a better life”
cos LP is too busy feeding the meme…
I believe that Cunliffe was on the right track with his speech to the Womens Refuge “today I am embarrassed to be a man”…
but too often they cower away from their sincere and definitive statements about the vulnerable, s the CT trick of repeat, repeat, repeat never gets implemented.
Basically, the only real shortcoming caucus have, regardless of leader, is that when they’re slagged off by the media and by parts of the membership (different parts each time), they start second-guessing themselves.
Yes, some fall into the “lower taxes, balanced budget, so something must be cut” paradigm trap, others are socially conservative “Waitakere men”, others have no idea about issue xyz, and others I flatly disagree with on a few issues. But despite all that a confident Labour government that wants to improve the conditions for all would still be a pretty good centre-left government.
I think the main weakness caucus have is that if someone makes an uproar about even a policy proposal, caucus run away and try to nix it. What I learned doing some public speaking is that whatever I said, a quarter of the audience would dislike it, a quarter would like it, and half would actually consider it in reasonably good faith. I feel it’s the same with policy: put it out there, don’t slag it off (others will do that for you), but simply say “it’s an idea put forward by intelligent, considerate people. I’ll give them the respect of actually waiting for the details rather than mouthing of about it before the circumstances are clear”.
Hell, even say that about Green policy.
Good for another five or ten points in the polls, easy, I reckon.
Yet part of me is still persuaded of the folly of ‘taking a knife to a gun fight’. Part of why the LP caucus is so gun shy as it were of standing up for what it believes in is that time and again they’ve seen the propagandists and dirty tricks merchants slaughter them. No wonder they’re perceived as timid and insincere.
Witness Little’s ‘cut the crap’ moment. Well received on the day – but since then the Beltway inward looking play it safe instinct seems to have reasserted itself.
Labour has not had any shortage of capable leaders since Helen Clark. Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe and Little would all make or have made great Labour PM’s. (Well maybe Shearer would have struggled). But each in his own way has been cut down or cowed by a vicious, relentless machine.
Thinking of Goff in that context – remember how his best days were just before the 2011 election. He had reached the point where I think he knew he had nothing to lose and actually went for it. I think quite a lot of people warmed to him at that stage, and I for one was saddened when he resigned as Leader. When he gave himself permission to give fate the middle finger – Goff looked great.
So while I fully agree with much of what both Tracey and McF are saying – I’d argue that ignoring the machine is not an option either.
not so much “knife vs gun” as “gun vs WMD”, in my opinion.
But don’t forget that some of the worst and most constant harrying of the Labour caucus doesn’t come from the Dirty Tricks side, it comes from pathologically-frustrated lefties and party members.
Every moderate economic comment is a sign of neoliberalism. Every socially tolerant move is a sign of identity politics. Every environmental comment will alienate the working class. Every idea to help beneficiaries will alienate the working poor, and every policy to help the middle class or working poor is treason because it neglects beneficiaries.
This is a legacy of Lab4 and the realisation that Lab5 was a stopgap, not a government with a plan to reverse the neoliberal acid that corrodes our society. But it’s also a direct symptom of what Lab4 created: policy is shit unless it’s all about me and contains 5 pages directly addressing my concerns. We no longer have a general practise of chilling the fuck out and accepting that a good policy which does not directly affect us or our priority is still a good policy.
Now, to pre-empt some righteous indignation, I’m not blaming the membership for the failings of the caucus, nor am I saying that the moaners are the same people each and every time, or even that some of the moans aren’t justified on a case by case basis. But to use a timely analogy the caucus and the membership are like a dysfunctional couple in relationship councilling – rebuilding the relationship after a betrayal takes time, understanding, and is a process. But if they manage to get over their differences and hurt, it could well lead to a stronger and more productive partnership.
Labour’s improving. I think that if they can gain a bit of confidence about policy (having the nats plagiarise their policy book would help with that, even if the nats are plagiarising too little, too late, and badly) and resist the efforts of the DPs to sow distrust, Labour will be able to improve their place in the polls. Which will make the nats shit a brick and make mistakes.
Too busy to respond right now – and to be fair I don’t think I can think of much more that needs saying.
Except that Lab4 was damn nearly 40 years ago now and while I accept the echoes of it are still with us – I’m not persuaded that all the Lab marriage issues are of their own making.
What has changed in that 40 years is the effectiveness and intensity of the dirty tricks and propaganda machine. Like any couple, they’d get on a lot better if life didn’t keep pulling the rug out from under them.
The 30th anniversary of Lab4 was July last year, so it’s hardly ”nearly 40 years ago”.
Also even 40 years is a short time in respect of social and political change.
And its 30-40 years max before some of the worst effects of fossil fuel depletion and climate change hit us. Its not very much time at all to get our political classes fit for purpose.
Labour and the Left has always faced a vicious and slanderous tory foe.
But then even some of the stuff Lee said about Savage was pretty cold.
And whenever tories have sensed that internal division in Labour, they’ve also played the role of the jealous outsider who uses gossip to try and break up the marriage.
No, the Left and Labour’s problems aren’t all of their own making. But the mistrust is part of the reason that caucus members can appear gunshy. The longer either side within Labour (to pose a caucus:membership dichotomy) avoids going apeshit, the stronger the relationship is and the easier it will be to ignore the tory gossiping.
This is a legacy of Lab4 and the realisation that Lab5 was a stopgap, not a government with a plan to reverse the neoliberal acid that corrodes our society.
Helen Clark was arguably our best PM ever (yeah I’m biased being a woman and also having personally known her) but she had one achilles heel… she was cautious. Very cautious. Sometimes it was a good thing but other times it was frustrating. She tended to move only as fast as she knew the voters would allow and that was not very fast.
It probably accounted for her longevity as PM but it inevitably meant that progress was disappointing for most left of centre politicos. I do feel annoyance at some commentators here who persistently attack Labour for their lack of assistance to beneficiaries and workers on the minimum wage while in government. In point of fact the hoped for 4th term (which never eventuated) was almost entirely dedicated to addressing those two problems. Their reasoning behind the lack of assistance during their previous terms was the cost factor. They believed they needed to rebuild the financial coffers to a sufficient level before they could effectively help those at the bottom of the heap. And I’m saying this as someone who at the time of the election of the last Labour government was one of those at/or near the bottom of the heap. Another story.
So, the reality is: had the Clark government succeeded in being elected for a 4th term then the lower waged and those who for valid reasons are on benefits, would be infinitely better off today.
It seems to me that Labour’s Left detractors have conveniently forgotten their promises in 2008. And lets remember Labour – unlike National – actually kept most of it’s promises!
Their reasoning behind the lack of assistance during their previous terms was the cost factor. They believed they needed to rebuild the financial coffers to a sufficient level before they could effectively help those at the bottom of the heap.
We look at this from the eyes of sensible adults, able to view things from the time span of having been around for a few decades. We save and wait, save and wait, save and wait. It’s very sensible.
But look at it from the stand point of a baby born into a family in poverty on the eve of the Labour 5 victory. That child had to go through all its most vulnerable and formative years of life in poverty while Labour waited to “rebuild the financial coffers to a sufficient level” – and then that child instead of getting the long promised benefit of that ‘financial rebuilding’ went on to experience 3 straight terms of National Government.
This is how a generation of young lives has been hopelessly disadvantaged while waiting for ones and zeroes on spreadsheets to come into line with our financialised modern day sensibilities.
Couldn’t agree more CR. That’s how it ended up and that is the tragedy. You can’t blame them for then saying “A pox on all your parties”. One day they will look back (hopefully) and appreciate the pox really lies with the NAct government. I guess the delay of the 5th Labour government had as much to do with politics as it did with “counting pennies”, but without the politics they would have been out of government sooner (2005) and imagine what a Brash govt. would have done to the poor and disenfranchised.
edit: Btw, saving and waiting has been the story of my life. đĄ
“goff looked great”………yea gods as an all time lefty I cannot agree…….what the LP is missing is someone with the correct charisma and a party machine to make it work well…….not to mention policies that don’t scare the bejeebers out of the ordinary working person……fuck me in the last election to vote for them was a cgt tax and having to wait longer for a pension ……your one small “freebie”that joe doe worked so hard for to enjoy for only a few years before they die!!!!
What Crosby does so well is ascertaining the right group to apply manipulations on, and (scarily) then doing it..
We must be what that group is giving some attention to also.
Lets win the hearts and minds of nearly everyone who is providing their attention the best way we can.
There’s this here interwebs for the platform…
The doing of only needs to be done..
We should start by building the appropriate platform…
“Have we really bought into the idea that hatred, irrational fear, prejudice, greed, elitism, authoritarianism, rivalry and malice are the real motivators of human behaviour all all our better instincts are mere sentiment to be occasionally appeased with empty slogans?”
Psychopaths implicitly understand that the best way to manipulate another human being is via fear. Fear bypasses our logic circuits. The environment you describe could be the psychopathic manifesto. An environment where they would have a natural advantage and rise to the top. Every time.
“So, our ârepresentativesâ spend more and more time and money learning the dark arts in order to what? beat the devil at his own game under his own rules and referees, on his playing fields?”
Dr Robert Hare, the most famous expert on psychopathy, strongly warns against trying to beat a psychopath at their own game – you will lose.
Instead of getting sucked in to trying to be a ‘better National’ who tinkers here instead of there, Labour needs to offer a real alternative vision. They need to highlight what a cold, miserable, selfish, uncaring society 30 years of neo-liberalism has delivered us. They need to show that TINA is all about playing on people’s fear of change on behalf of those at the top who benefit from the status quo. They need to show an alternative where our children and their children will be more than units in a corporation doing their bit for the shareholders as required by their zero hours contracts.
It’s pretty boring listening to the concern tr0lls helpfully explaining that we’ll never win if we move further left, and that we must go right to fight for the mythical middle. What they don’t seem to grasp is that for some of us it’s not about ‘we won you lost haha’ like a friggin rubgy game, it’s about reducing inequality, social justice, and a sense of community. We want rational policy for future generations based on science, reality, evidence, not ‘good politics’ window dressing announcements ‘playing well with the public’ based on focus groups, polling, and manipulated voter perceptions. (Btw ‘perceptions are reality’ is in fact the most fundamental mantra of psychopaths.)
If our choice is between National A and National B then even when we ‘win’, we lose.
After Nicky Hager released his book I was watching a lecture he gave to a university class or something. Something he said has stayed with me, “a government that needs dirty politics is a government with something to hide.” National’s agenda is not for public consumption because it is not electable.
Dr Hare’s advice for dealing with a psychopath that has infiltrated your life? Cut your losses and leave: exorcise them from your life but any and all means. We need to stop playing their game and offer something else. Or else what’s the point?
Actually you can’t beat a psychopath ‘at their own game’ because then you would be a fucking nutcase yourself, playing the ‘same’ game! Lets run round in fucking circles forever! To beat a psychopath you have to have your own strategy, and one that is flexible to the conditions. You have to role with it, always with your EYE on the goal! There’s always ways to ‘win’, you just have to make sure it happens! Design your ‘outcome’ and control your destiny! Oh and never be afraid, fear is the major ‘stumbling block’ to success! You have to be a rarity to have no fear, if you are one of those, then you really need to be ‘in the field’.
Conventional business school advice for dealing with psychopaths is to learn as much as you can from them, that is if they have anything to offer, and then get out as fast as you can. Don’t ever try to beat them at their own game.
My own experience with psychopaths is that they can’t strategize – they’re highly reactive – and this may be connected to their problems admitting to past actions.
That’s why good governance can sometimes work as a prophylactic.
Flurries of candour,
Immerse in your open field.
Void is your endlessness,
But lurking just beyond the pale,
Is thy heart?
The beautiful Red,
Rasping in thorns,
On the cusp,
Of the low Moon.
And serenading is the high tide,
With language of old?
Colours mount your brow,
The vibrancy sweeps,
Concurrent,
Securing Her voluptuous limb.
Sweet and warm,
Your breath ascends,
The pavement cracks,
Low long mist wraps,
And coils me in your heavenâs scent,
Inhaling me,
The Virginâs breast awakes.
Once was one time,
Now past,
Her veil sculptured Her face,
On the valiant wind,
As the calling was issued,
Meeting under the fold,
Beneath the ruins of once was.
Clasping my silver,
The pangs that rope my chest,
Tie me to my affliction,
As I quiver in the midnight scold.
Sounds familiar, SNP played the part of Dotcom, if he didnt exist they would have a list of bogey men as long as your arm to use.
The election usually means the leader has to take the prime role in the beatups which are normally done by proxies.
Other examples of Crosby style is pushing more women into responsible cabinet postions, the Tories almost left it too late ,it was a few months before the election. Our Joan of Arc is Paula Bennett, a little talent but rates highly in focus groups as she spouts all the right keywords.
Ken is right , Crosby is best at the business in the Brit centric world since Joseph G
These principles are abstracted from Jowett & O’Donnell.( Propaganda & Persuasion)
Avoid abstract ideas – appeal to the emotions.
Constantly repeat just a few ideas. Use stereotyped phrases.
Give only one side of the argument.
Continuously criticize your opponents.
Pick out one special “enemy” for special vilification.
that list is why i laugh at those who saying criticising wont work. attacking clark personally was a major part of nats tactic 2007 to 2008. not the only one but this notion they dont do attacking is laughable
I can’t imagine why a bunch of right-wing national party people would be constantly “advising” us not to criticize the govt if it weren’t that they had our best interests at heart.
to Dukeofurl : On reading that url, I find that the author thought Goebbels’ hate stuff might have been because it was wartime. I assure him and anyone reading that url that Goebbels was propaganda minister from 1933.
My small brother had a toy battleship with metal plate on side which blew up ( dislodged) Goebbels’, Ribbentrop and another when hit from a popgun cork. We knew all about these gents as Dad had us listen to propaganda broadcasts for enlightenment. That’s why I could pick his error.
….continued re propaganda: My other point is that because I learnt early to recognise propaganda, I feel real fear at the brainwashing being so naively taken on board by so many ( in NZ specifically for this conversation) in spite of critical thinking having been taught in schools for many decades.
Propaganda can only take you so far. If you push it too hard, like a property bubble, it will collapse. So National had to look relaxed about Northland, even to the extent of choosing a candidate of no particular promise.
Then, the opposition decided not to shoot each other in the feet for a change – they reached a pre-election accommodation. A strong candidate with strong local ties was chosen.
And National screwed up too – they ran their stupid ghost jobs lie out and got caught out. The bridges gave the media ferals something to talk about. And Key and Joyce realised they’d lost somewhat before and began to distance themselves from their man.
And a few people began to pass the word about prominent New Zealanders – long time National supporters who heard it were sick to their stomachs and didn’t turn out to vote.
Any seasoned journo will treat “press releases” with a healthy dose of scepticism (there are notable exceptions).
What Key does is express the press release himself, and on many occasions it is obvious he has rehearsed his performance.
CT script and rehearse JK all the way.
It works because CT understand the media extremely well.
Key spouting press release bs does not get questioned.
At the end of the day do journos care?
Probly not.
They are there to provide padding between the advertisements that pay their salaries.
Key’s response to the levy tax question was well rehearsed and our hard boiled investigative parliamentary press gallery swallowed it.
We are well past anything Godwins Law could bring up It is looking more like a plutocracy being very carefully nurtured, a la FIFA.
Gordon Gecko and Wall Street rule, ably assisted by by the national party and a subservient media.
I smell a long distant revolution coming, probably about two or three generations into the future, provided geopolitical events have not engulfed us beforehand.
As an aside nz could easily become the new spratley islands and I am sure that jk could broker a deal between usa and china; with a side deal to to hollywood about film rights. All of which which would be breathlessly bruited abroad by our gullible (and possibly corrupt) media swallowing everythihing CT issue.
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Moving And Shaking: There was a time when people spoke matter-of-factly about the “labour movement” – a political phenomenon understood to embrace much more than the Labour Party. Included within the term’s definition was the whole trade union movement – many of whose members looked upon the Labour Party as ...
by Philip Ferguson Much of the left, even people who formally identify as marxists, have collapsed politically in the face of postmodern gender theory of the sort pioneered by American philosopher Judith Butler. For Butler even biological sex is socially constructed. “If the immutable character of sex is contested, perhaps ...
The media is reporting that the (alleged) Labour party sexual assaulter has resigned from their job at Parliament, which means hopefully he won't be turning up there making people feel unsafe in future. Good. But as with everything about this scandal, it just raises other questions. Most significantly: why the ...
By Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern I am every bit as angry as you are. I am every bit as disappointed as you must be. The people with power, oversight and the ability to do something about these processes within the Labour Party should be ashamed. Whoever those people are, I ...
Property developers think there is an "oversupply" of houses in Auckland:High turnover rates and falling prices may be a sign that there are too many new houses going in to some parts of Auckland, commentators say. [...] Property developer David Whitburn said there was a "bit of an oversupply" in ...
Labour Party president Nigel Haworth resigned yesterday over the party's sexual assault scandal. But while that's good news, its unlikely to take away the stench of a coverup. Because according to Paula Bennett in Parliament yesterday, pretty much everyone in the Prime Minister's office was involved as well:I have been ...
Two-Faced? Labour insiders' commitment to the neoliberal status quo puts them at odds with their party’s membership; its trade union affiliates; and a majority of Labour voters, but this only serves to strengthen the perception they have of themselves as a special elite. Among the lesser breeds, they’ll talk up a ...
There has been a lot of talk about Boris Johnson wanting an election, and he has blustered with great gusto about 'chicken' Jeremy Corbyn refusing one, but I think there are many reasons why he is secretly glad he has been refused the opportunity:The Tories are an utter rabble,tearing themselves ...
Scottish appeal court judges have declared that Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament in the run-up to the October Brexit deadline is unlawful. The three judges, chaired by Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, overturned an earlier ruling that the courts did not have the powers to interfere in the prime ...
By Simon Bridges. The following is a press release from the office of Simon Bridges, leader of The National Party. Key ora, New Zealand. Happy Maori Language Week. Look, I’m writing to you today because I want to clear something up. There’s been a lot of kerfuffle around some things ...
I understand there's some stuff going round about how the SIS "was removed from the list of public offices covered by the Public Records Act in 2017". The context of course being their records derived from US torture, which will be disposed of or sealed. The good news is that ...
Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ...
Australia is burning down again, and meanwhile its natural disaster minister is denying climate change:Australia’s minister responsible for drought and natural disasters, David Littleproud, has said that he doesn’t “know if climate change is manmade”. Clarifying earlier comments that the question is “irrelevant” when considering the Coalition government’s response to ...
Auckland Philippines Solidarity is excited to host Professor Judy Taguiwalo for a speaking tour of NZ in September. She is a well-known activist in the Philippines and was a political prisoner under the Marcos dictatorship. Professor Taguiwalo briefly served as a Cabinet member under President Duterte but was forced from ...
This open letter to the Green Party was penned after an opinion piece by Jill Abigail, a feminist and founding member of the party, was censored by the Greens’ leadership. (Redline has reprinted her article here).The intolerance of the Green Party leaders and their acceptance of the misogyny of gender ...
Today is a Member's day, and David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill continues its slow crawl through its committee stage. They're spending the whole day on it today, though the first hour is likely to be spent on voting left over from last time. After that they'll move on ...
An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...
There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...
Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
by Daphna Whitmore Every Sunday for the past two months unionists from First Union, with supporters from other unions, have set out to the Ihumatao land protest, put up gazebos and gas barbeques, and cooked food for a few hundred locals and supporters who have come from across the country. ...
NZDF Attends Commemorations to Mark International Mission in East Timor A New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) contingent participated today in the 20th anniversary commemorations of the International Force East Timor (INTERFET) mission in Dili. The commemoration ...
They’ve only been up and running for a few months, but a New Zealand not-for-profit has already made a big impact on period poverty in New Zealand. ...
The allocation of money for publicly funded broadcasting for election campaigns should be turned on it's head according to Massey University professor of communication design Claire Robinson. ...
Disappointment expressed by Fletcher Building CEO, Ross Taylor, reflects the increasing frustration held by many with this Government’s failure to protect private property rights.[1] ...
The independent Interim Climate Change Committee today launched an eight-week, nationwide call for evidence on options available to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. ...
Social Credit has lodged a complaint with the Ombudsman over the way the Overseas Investment Office is handling its official information request for disclosure of documents on the sale of Westland Milk Products to Chinese company Inner Mongolian ...
This Friday in Solidarity with the Global Climate Strike All of the SodaStream’s e-commerce platforms and head office operations will be closed to kick-off the week-long event, and employees will march the #CLIMATESTRIKE in Auckland on 27 September. ...
Federated Farmers congratulates the Auditor-General’s office on its release today of its report Managing Freshwater Quality: Challenges and Opportunities. ...
Growth has now slowed to a 6-year low, and downside risks are dominating. June quarter GDP growth came in at 0.5%qoq, in line with our expectation, and slightly above consensus. Although there were a few sensational reports of the chance of a negative print. ...
Local Government New Zealand (LGNZ) is calling the release of the National Climate Change Risk Assessment (NCCRA) framework a good first step in balancing New Zealand’s response to climate change. ...
Family First NZ says that a new Colorado report compiled by the Rocky Mountain High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area finds marijuana-positive traffic fatalities, hospitalisations, marijuana use, and illegal market activity have exploded since marijuana legalization. ...
This year’s Ratepayers’ Report , local government league tables released yesterday, reveals which local councils owe the most and which owe the least. ...
Rachel MacGregor welcomes the decision released today by Justice Hinton. The key issue on which all the various litigation has been based is the question, did Colin Craig sexually harass Rachel. That question has been answered – he did. Justice ...
The Rail and Maritime Transport Union (RMTU) has today ratified a ground breaking pay deal with Dunedin Railways which will see all union members being paid a living wage and the lowest paid receiving an 18% wage increase. Higher paid RMTU members ...
Inclusion for trans women/men and non-binary peoples has today been announced as the cornerstone of a new resolution for the National Council of Women New Zealand (NCWNZ). ...
It took a testy Morning Report interview this week to remind me that Simon Bridges was still the Leader of the Opposition. Until then, he had been largely invisible as the events of recent weeks unfolded. ...
The National Council of Women NZ has today welcomed the news that the Government has purchased Kate Sheppard’s house in Christchurch, the base for the NZ suffrage campaign. ...
The Māori Party supports mana whenua of Ihumātao and acknowledges their coming together to reach consensus on the future of their whenua. “We also acknowledge the leadership of the Kīngitanga who have played an important role in supporting ...
The New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union is questioning why, for the second time, Jacinda Ardern has appointed a Crown-owned company Chief Executive to Chair her “Business Advisory Council”, following her announcement that Mercury CEO Fraser Whineray ...
Responding to the Government’s decision to give around $300 million to Amazon as a sweetener for filming a TV series in New Zealand, New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union spokesman Louis Houlbrooke says: “As a matter of simple waste, this is striking, ...
I am very pleased with Air New Zealand’s Decision to backdown and withdraw their application to trademark into a logo Kia Ora. I said at the time that it was an ill conceived idea and poorly thought out – more importantly it should never have been ...
NZEI Te Riu Roa members will be joining with others across the union movement by wearing black and white in support of pay equity on Suffrage Day tomorrow, and urging the Government to commit to a settlement for teacher aides this year. ...
Yesterday’s announcement from the Minister for Immigration, to improve temporary work visas for migrant workers, provides some positive changes but more detail is needed. The Council of Trade Unions fundamentally supports the principle of making ...
FIRST Union today welcomed Westpac’s public admission of the significant gender pay gap in its workforce and reiterated its call for employers to work with unions to close this disparity, arguing that this work must begin at the bottom of the pay ...
Changes to the work visa system announced by the Minister of Immigration are not all positive for employers or migrants, comments Ms June Ranson, chair of the New Zealand Association for Migration and Investment (NZAMI) , a leading voice in the ...
The Dairy Workers Union (DWU) has welcomed the announcement from dairy company, Synlait, that they will be boosting parental leave entitlements significantly for working parents. ...
In June, the Children’s Commissioner announced a thematic review into Oranga Tamariki’s policies, processes and practice relating to care and protection issues for tamariki Māori aged 0-3 months. Today the Children’s Commissioner has released the full ...
“Closing the Gap” Tauranga, one of the area groups of Income Equality Aotearoa NZ Inc., has surveyed all candidates in the three local body elections to discover attitudes to some basic issues of the Western Bay region. We believe that this is ...
In response to DairyNZ's attempt to dismiss an economic report that highlighted dairy's role in the New Zealand economy is only three per cent of GDP, Fish & Game New Zealand Chief Executive Martin Taylor says: "If DairyNZ wishes to reject a report ...
Kiingi Tuuheitia Pootatau Te Wherowhero VII has successfully guided the mana whenua of lhumaatao to reach a consensus on the future of their whenua. ...
Two activists disguised as shareholders interrupted the AGM of a gold mining company in central Auckland this morning to inform shareholders their plans to mine for gold in conservation estate in the Karangahake Gorge were unwelcome. ...
The Capital and Coast District Health Board (CCDHB) has been labelled ‘NATO’ (no action, talk only) when it comes to child mental health, with just 0.6 full time staff (24 hours per week) for inpatient child psychology and just 0.8 full time staff ...
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL has awarded three New Zealand climate youth groups with its Ambassador of Conscience award, its highest recognition for human rights work, previously given to the likes of Nelson Mandela, Ai Weiwei and Malala Yousafzai. ...
The New Zealand Taxpayers' Union , in partnership with the Auckland Ratepayers’ Alliance , has today published this year's Ratepayers' Report – online local government league tables – at www.ratepayersreport.nz . ...
NZUS Council executive director Jordan Small welcomes the news New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern will meet with US President Donald Trump in New York next week. ...
The recent NZIER report trivialises the significant role the dairy sector plays in New Zealand’s economy – and fails to look at the specifics of the Government’s freshwater package, according to DairyNZ. DairyNZ chief executive Dr Tim Mackle said ...
This week, the New Zealand Parliament and the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) will jointly host a seminar on tackling the global spread of illicit weapons. ...
In a landmark judgment issued this morning, the Court of Appeal confirmed that the Southern Response Concealment Class Action will proceed issued on an "opt out” basis. ...
Mainstream media, as the purveyors of truth and source of balanced information, took another backward step today with the announcement by Stuff that most New Zealand organisations had joined 170 media outlets from around the world in the “Covering ...
Covering Climate Now: Saying climate change is important is one thing. So why are we so incapable of having a real conversation about what actually addressing it will mean? Sam McGlennon investigates. The Spinoff’s participation in Covering Climate Now is made possible thanks to Spinoff Members. Join us here!Up until a week ago, ...
"This is what Wellington boy said, after he finished his quick and bloody deed. You know what your problem is? Once a slut, always a slut": a short story by Auckland writer Eileen Merriman. ...
Michael Mann, a climatologist and famous press critic, talks to the Columbia Journalism Review about the dangers of both understating and overstating the dangers of climate change. ...
Ahead of the All Blacks first game Trevor McKewen makes some his fanciful, fraught and some hopefully on-point predictions for the Rugby World Cup.Can you take one for the team? Could you cope with the All Blacks coming up short in achieving an unprecedented third straight World Cup if it ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra [embedded content]University of Canberra Deputy Vice-Chancellor Leigh Sullivan discusses Scott Morrison’s new family law inquiry with Michelle Grattan. They also speak of the developments in the Tamil family from Biloela’s case, and the UN barring ...
Analysis - Jacinda Ardern heads for the UN as the sexual assault scandal rumbles on at home, and Simon Bridges says he isn't going to ease off his personal attacks on the PM. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dries Verstraete, Senior Lecturer in Aerospace Design and Propulsion, University of Sydney CC BY-NDClimate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d ...
In this episode of our new tarot reading show Wild Card, The Spinoff’s resident psychic divines the outcome of the All Blacks’ opening match against the Springboks on Saturday.In the first and potentially only episode of Wild Card, we have a focus on sport. The Spinoff’s psychic-in-residence, Jo Sees, specialises ...
Recently-retired Sky TV chief executive John Fellet talks to Newsroom business editor Nikki Mandow about baseball, media, goldfish, accountancy - and more baseball. ...
The Real Pod assembles to dissect the week in reality television and real life, with special thanks to Nando’s.With Duncan enjoying a MAFS-style beach holiday in Bali, Alex and Jane are left to cover another crazy week in reality television. Shannon Ryan has gone full beast-mode in Celebrity Treasure Island, Married ...
Dr Bryce Edwards“Diversity” is a central theme of the current local government elections – with the common criticism that incumbent politicians are generally too “stale, male, and pale” (or variations on that). Numerous commentators and candidates have lamented the lack of women, ethnic minorities, and youth in local government. ...
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.New Zealand Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.Today’s content by Dr Bryce Edwards.Climate change, environment Paul Gorman (Stuff): How would you spend an unlimited war chest for ...
A review into the Ministry for Culture and Heritage will look into the relationship between a staffer and the external developer responsible for a massive data breach. ...
Covering Climate Now: The Spinoff crew who took on climate change with a vegan diet for the week reflect on the highs, the lows, the pies and the fries. The Spinoff’s participation in Covering Climate Now is made possible thanks to Spinoff Members. Join us here!As I write, I’m tucking into ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Roger Crisp, Professorial Fellow, Dianoia Institute of Philosophy, Australian Catholic University As world chiefs and youth leaders gather in New York at the United Nations Climate Action Summit, many of us as individuals are feeling powerless and overwhelmed. Making big personal changes ...
The head of one of the country's biggest news media firms is the latest subject of criticism for darkening his face at a staff party he attended dressed as US basketballer Lamar Odom. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Coral Gartner, Associate Professor, School of Public Health, The University of Queensland Health authorities in the United States are investigating 530 cases of lung illness, including seven deaths, reportedly connected to vaping. Some of these patients have been diagnosed with lung inflammation ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 The Testaments by Margaret Atwood (Chatto & Windus, $48)Obvs. (Read our review by Pip Adam here)2 Three ...
When comedy documentary Funny As was made, a lot of interviews got left on the cutting room floor which NZ On Screen quickly picked up. Here are some of our favourites.We’re a pretty funny bunch us Kiwis. Trapped on a tiny island at the end of the earth it appears ...
Auckland rapper JessB has just released a new EP and wraps up a national mini-tour tonight in her home town. Jogai Bhatt talked to her about her world travels, performing at Ihumātao, and how her community and her music intersect.It’s only been two years since JessB entered the public radar ...
A new poem by Waiheke poet Rata Gordon.PacingA deep bow to NerudaIt so happens I am sick of being a woman. It happens that I walk into BP stations and supermarkets greasy, swollen, like a cow made of soap, losing my way in a field of placentas and pesticides.The smell ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Amanda Gardiner, Lecturer, Edith Cowan University In August, a 24-year-old woman appeared before the Western Australian District Court after pleading guilty to concealing the birth of her newborn baby in 2018. The charge of concealment of birth refers to hiding the dead ...
Voting papers are being sent out today, and lots of people say they won’t fill them out because they don’t know anything about the candidates. Respected website ‘The Spinoff’ is trying to fix that through its Policy Local tool. But it’s not the only one. Catherine Jeffcoat talks to the ...
This week's biggest-selling New Zealand books, as recorded by the Nielsen BookScan New Zealand bestseller list and described by literary editor Steve Braunias ...
Writer and cannabis legalisation expert Russell Brown watched episode two of Patrick Gower on Weed, and found it highly entertaining but dangerously light on facts. Patrick Gower is good value when he’s high. In the second part of his documentary Patrick Gower on Weed, he does what you’d expect in a ...
Sydney shock-jock Alan Jones has written to Jacinda Ardern saying he didn't intend any violence towards her when he said on air that Australia's Prime Minister should "shove a sock down [her] throat". ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Caio Seguin, PhD candidate, University of Melbourne Brain regions exchange information by sending and receiving signals through a network of nerve connections. This exchange is crucial to all aspects of the brain’s functioning, including how we experience the world, form and retrieve ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Miranda Kaye, Senior Lecturer, Faculty of Law, University of Technology Sydney Over the next 12 months, a joint parliamentary committee will examine Australia’s family law system. It will be led by conservative Liberal MP Kevin Andrews and One Nation leader Pauline Hanson. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Barbara Allen, Senior Lecturer in Public Management, Victoria University of Wellington This story is part of Covering Climate Now, a global collaboration of more than 250 news outlets to strengthen coverage of the climate story. For three years in a row, the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Moscova, Senior Lecturer in Anatomy, UNSW Women’s nipples have long been a source of fascination and controversy, from celebrity gossip stories of wardrobe malfunctions and “nip slips” to feminist movements for gender equality. Nipples even became a fashion accessory. Men’s nipples ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Holmes, Director, Climate Change Communication Research Hub, Monash University One of the great paradoxes of climate change communication in Australia is that politicians command the most attention on the issue, yet are among the least trusted sources of climate information. Research ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachael Sharman, Senior Lecturer in Psychology, University of the Sunshine Coast This story is part of Covering Climate Now, a global collaboration of more than 250 news outlets to strengthen coverage of the climate story. Thousands of school students across Australia are ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin., Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University Newstart recipients and other Australians on benefits get their half-yearly pay rise today (and also on March 20). This one is vanishingly small. Announced very quietly by Social Services Minister ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Warren Hogan, Industry Professor, University of Technology Sydney The budget was for practical purposes in neither deficit nor in surplus in 2018-19, the final figures released by Treasurer Josh Frydenberg and Finance Minister Mathias Cormann on Thursday reveal. The underlying cash deficit ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Richard Holden, Professor of Economics, UNSW This week NBN Co announced pricing changes for the National Broadband Network. It includes a new plan boasting a download speed of 1 gigabit per second and an upload speed of 50 megabits per second for ...
Covering Climate Now: Just how much of an impact would a shift to vegetarian diets have on the battle to halt climate change, asks Mirjam Guesgen.The Spinoff’s participation in Covering Climate Now is made possible thanks to Spinoff Members. Join us here!Kiwi cuisine is replete with meat: fish and chips, meat and ...
It's not a risk assessment, but it's a start: an instruction manual for the experts who'll be writing New Zealand's first national climate risk report for the government was released on Thursday. ...
The Wellington Mayor's main rival in the upcoming local elections, Andy Foster, won't say how much Sir Peter Jackson has stumped up in a bid to get him elected. ...
Good morning, and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: GDP growth slows in the latest quarter, questions raised over utter NZDF incompetence, and NZTA sends money intended for light rail elsewhere.The numbers are in, and GDP growth has slowed down for the second quarter of the year. Radio NZ reports it ...
As climate change crumbles coasts, lengthens droughts and increases extreme weather events, New Zealand’s seed bank for threatened indigenous plants lacks on-going funding. ...
Steve Tew marked the magnitude of the day by openly attacking the Six Nations power bloc and suggesting former ABs should be free to play for Samoa, Tonga or Fiji. ...
A classical approach to freshwater policy only serves to enforce well-established views, argue Maria Armoudian and Nicolas Pirsoul. Here they offer some more innovative alternatives. ...
Freedom camping, public transport and affordable housing are challenges Queenstown’s Mayor Jim Boult says he’s uniquely poised to solve – if only people would do what they’re told.The Spinoff local election coverage is entirely funded by The Spinoff Members. For more about becoming a member and supporting The Spinoff’s journalism click ...
Crosby ‘most successful propogandist since Goebbels’ – Ken Livingston 
We all know that bad parents simply don’t care about their children’s education. Most truants have loser parents, and grow up to be involved with crime, or in low paid employment usually like their parents. The nonsense so-called “climate strike” coming up will be attended mostly by the least intelligent ...9 hours ago
Today is the first day of the global climate strike. Led by schoolkids, people all around the world are going to protest to demand action on climate change. New Zealand isn't doing it till next Friday (join us!), but if you want to get active early, there's plenty to do ...17 hours ago
To Protect and Serve: When the Prime Minister finds herself enmeshed in the coils of a full-blown political scandal, her colleagues and party comrades have only one priority: to release her as swiftly – and with as little lasting injury – as possible. Is this what Jacinda Ardern’s colleagues and ...18 hours ago
When military leaders cover up and lie to elected civilian authorities, the foundation of democratic civil-military relations is undermined because it is those authorities who are entrusted to hold the military accountable to the public that they mutually serve. But this is only true if civilian political authorities take their ...19 hours ago
by Daphna Whitmore The long years of Netanyahu’s reign are drawing to an end. For years he has epitomized reactionary zionism as he oversaw hundreds of thousands of Jewish settlers seize land in the West Bank. There are now 700,000 settlers, putting an end to the myth that Israel was ...21 hours ago
BP, Z and Mobil all insist that petrol price hikes are temporary, “in a very literal sense.” The nation’s major petrol providers are trying to allay customer fears over prices, promising that they’ll move to lower them again “immediately” when the Middle East is returned to its formerly peaceful state. ...1 day ago
South African coach Rassie Erasmus says he has no idea what they’re going to do about the boat. In a highly anticipated press conference this afternoon, All Blacks coach Steve Hansen has finally unveiled the team’s boat for its Rugby World Cup 2019 campaign. In a press conference that went ...1 day ago
Get Back Jojo! The elation in Mayor Phil Goff’s camp may be easily imagined as they watched social media light up in indignation at challenger John Tamihere’s "Sieg Heil to that" quip. Just when JT’s notoriously right-wing, sexist and homophobic stains were beginning to fade back into his ‘colourful’ past, ...2 days ago
Patrick Gower is good value when he's high. Not that I've ever, you know, got stoned with him. But in the second part of his documentary Patrick Gower on Weed, he does what you'd expect in a modern weed documentary and immerses himself – first with a doctor, then a ...2 days ago
We surveyed candidates on their attitudes to issues facing the Western Bay Region, find out what they think: “Closing the Gap” Tauranga, one of the area groups of Income Equality Aotearoa NZ Inc., has surveyed all candidates in the three local body elections to discover attitudes to some basic issues ...3 days ago
Why is New Zealand climate change policy so crap? The Herald this morning has a long article on the twists and turns of climate change policy in New Zealand [paywalled / depaywall script], which shows where we've been. The short version is that the government first began worrying about this ...3 days ago
The All Blacks have been, for more than a century, arguably the most successful International sports team in the world. But they are more than that; even for those Kiwis who are immune to the charms of rugby (and there are more than a few), the All Blacks are ambassadors ...3 days ago
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Dangerous Foes: For those readers of Bowalley Road who feel disposed to dismiss any prospect of an Israeli destabilisation of New Zealand politics, the example of the United Kingdom repays close attention. Ever since the election of Jeremy Corbyn as leader of the British Labour Party, the Israelis have sanctioned, funded and ...5 days ago
Make It 16, the youth-led campaign to lower New Zealand's voting age, is holding an official campaign launch at Parliament this Friday from 16:30. If you'd like to attend, you can register using EventBrite here. ...5 days ago
by Don Franks It was a lovely sunny Wellington afternoon with blue skies above the beaches. In Courtenay Place, political activists packed out a stuffy upstairs room for an important meeting. The assembled pacifists, anarchists, communists and independent young radicals of Peace Action Wellington felt the need for a mission ...5 days ago
From the Wall Street Journal:Inside a room of the ornately decorated Hotel du Palais during last month’s Group of Seven summit in Biarritz, France, President Trump awaited a meeting with Egyptian President Abdel Fattah Al Sisi. Mr. Trump looked over a gathering of American and Egyptian officials and called out in ...6 days ago
. . This blogpost is different to my usual format of reporting on issues… Since July 1011, I have blogged on a variety of political issues; near always political and/or environmental; mostly highly critical of the previous National Government. Other issues included Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands and repression of ...7 days ago
Those close to the Police Minister believe the initiative may be the result of Nash “seeing a great deal” on AliExpress. In a move that comes seemingly out of nowhere, Police Minister Stuart Nash announced this afternoon that he expects all frontline staff to don bearskin hats, famously worn by ...1 week ago
Moving And Shaking: There was a time when people spoke matter-of-factly about the “labour movement” – a political phenomenon understood to embrace much more than the Labour Party. Included within the term’s definition was the whole trade union movement – many of whose members looked upon the Labour Party as ...1 week ago
By Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern I am every bit as angry as you are. I am every bit as disappointed as you must be. The people with power, oversight and the ability to do something about these processes within the Labour Party should be ashamed. Whoever those people are, I ...1 week ago
Two-Faced? Labour insiders' commitment to the neoliberal status quo puts them at odds with their party’s membership; its trade union affiliates; and a majority of Labour voters, but this only serves to strengthen the perception they have of themselves as a special elite. Among the lesser breeds, they’ll talk up a ...1 week ago
By Simon Bridges. The following is a press release from the office of Simon Bridges, leader of The National Party. Key ora, New Zealand. Happy Maori Language Week. Look, I’m writing to you today because I want to clear something up. There’s been a lot of kerfuffle around some things ...1 week ago
Dr. Christopher Labos and Jonathan Jarry discuss the recent Canadian fluoride/IQ research. They provide an expert analysis of the paper and its problems. Click on image to go to podcast. The critical debate about the recent ... 1 week ago
An ambitious plan to fly to Los Angeles petered out into a brief sight-seeing trip and a desire to return home and get some sleep before work tomorrow. Air New Zealand has confirmed a flight to Los Angeles last night was turned back about a quarter of the way into ...1 week ago
There appears to be consensus – by omission – that the concept of indigenous futures should be accepted at face value. So I scavenged the internet to see if I could locate an academic descriptor or a framework around how we think about it as a concept, and whether it ...1 week ago
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Smells like butthurt
Oh yes. FEAR.
In New Plymouth last election it was ” the fear of the Greens being in government and the effect that would have on the local oil & gas economy “.
The important debate on the damage the use of fossil fuels was incurring on the planet never saw daylight.
I think it is a real shame that the left’s problems in winning the hearts and minds of the majority – people who have the most to gain from moving leftwards and the most to fear from the current political settings – is relentlessly framed as a problem of being better manipulators, liars, and propagandists.
So, our “representatives” spend more and more time and money learning the dark arts in order to what? beat the devil* at his own game under his own rules and referees, on his playing fields?
I guess if all you want is to be given a wee pretend turn at ruling hell every now and then it’s a winning strategy. And I think it’s part of the long term plan of the likes of Crosby-Textor to have them do so. Because what Labour in particular, have to do for their “reward” is exactly what they want them to.
Have we really bought into the idea that hatred, irrational fear, prejudice, greed, elitism, authoritarianism, rivalry and malice are the real motivators of human behaviour all all our better instincts are mere sentiment to be occasionally appeased with empty slogans?
*for want of a better metaphor
Hearts and minds? It’s just not hard.
đ
Thought you’d like that one. Now to strap CV to a chair and play it on a loop đ
lol !
It that supporters with signs saying
“Im with Nicola” just swap it out with “Hilary” or down our way “Team Key”
I agree entirely.
me too. Great comment js.
Let me try and tease this out a bit js.
Are you suggesting that the left should entirely eschew any understanding of propaganda? That we should nobly ignore Lynton Cosby because our cause is better than this?
And if the cost of these higher ideals is to continue losing elections more or less indefinitely – are you happy with that price?
Probably not – and you would argue that I’m putting words into your mouth. Well if so … then could you clarify how you think the left should respond? If embracing it is supping with the devil, and ignoring it means electoral impotency – then what DO you have in mind?
Yup – hearts and minds. Exactly what Cosby does so well.
some left wing politicians with authenticity and sincerity, both of the people and for the people, would go a bloody long way. Short of that then yeah, you’d need people who can do a better job of faking it and who have better sound bites.
I didn’t hear js saying those things at all. I think you are presenting a false dichotomy (join the game or lose). There are other ways of doing this.
If you imitate the devil, what makes you think you can stop? Because there’s always another election to win, so compromises in principle and message always need to be made to get elected.
Your dichotomy isn’t between victory and failure, it’s just between two different types of losing.
@weka & McF
Which a perfectly good start to an answer.
While I can accept why you see the question as a false dichotomy – I’m not seeing an effective ‘third path’ either.
Or if argue that we must learn to counter the Cosby inspired machine … I’d be all ears.
I actually think people see the LP and whoever its leader is as constantly in a kind of cowering position (metaphorically)… its leaders stand up straight and look people in the eye when challenged about so-called cosying up to business. They stand tall and don’t apologise. However when it comes to standign for the vulnerable, imo, they do it from this cowered position… almost apologetic if not joining in (man on the roof) and thereby perpetuate the notion that all those who are not small business or big business are less than and only worthy of what we want to throw to them.
I believe if someone from Labour stood up and was apologetic for wanting to help the vulnerable, who used real stories, to educate people about the suffering some go through they would be seen as far more authentic and viable than the current cowering to be a softer national.
I think even when people don’t agree with someone they will admire their fight, their sincerity, etc…
LP leaders don’t gve kiwis the chance to say
“you know, I hadn’t thought about it that way”
or
“of course I want those people to have a better life”
cos LP is too busy feeding the meme…
I believe that Cunliffe was on the right track with his speech to the Womens Refuge “today I am embarrassed to be a man”…
but too often they cower away from their sincere and definitive statements about the vulnerable, s the CT trick of repeat, repeat, repeat never gets implemented.
That’s the thing for me.
Basically, the only real shortcoming caucus have, regardless of leader, is that when they’re slagged off by the media and by parts of the membership (different parts each time), they start second-guessing themselves.
Yes, some fall into the “lower taxes, balanced budget, so something must be cut” paradigm trap, others are socially conservative “Waitakere men”, others have no idea about issue xyz, and others I flatly disagree with on a few issues. But despite all that a confident Labour government that wants to improve the conditions for all would still be a pretty good centre-left government.
I think the main weakness caucus have is that if someone makes an uproar about even a policy proposal, caucus run away and try to nix it. What I learned doing some public speaking is that whatever I said, a quarter of the audience would dislike it, a quarter would like it, and half would actually consider it in reasonably good faith. I feel it’s the same with policy: put it out there, don’t slag it off (others will do that for you), but simply say “it’s an idea put forward by intelligent, considerate people. I’ll give them the respect of actually waiting for the details rather than mouthing of about it before the circumstances are clear”.
Hell, even say that about Green policy.
Good for another five or ten points in the polls, easy, I reckon.
Genuinely interesting answers. Thank you.
Yet part of me is still persuaded of the folly of ‘taking a knife to a gun fight’. Part of why the LP caucus is so gun shy as it were of standing up for what it believes in is that time and again they’ve seen the propagandists and dirty tricks merchants slaughter them. No wonder they’re perceived as timid and insincere.
Witness Little’s ‘cut the crap’ moment. Well received on the day – but since then the Beltway inward looking play it safe instinct seems to have reasserted itself.
Labour has not had any shortage of capable leaders since Helen Clark. Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe and Little would all make or have made great Labour PM’s. (Well maybe Shearer would have struggled). But each in his own way has been cut down or cowed by a vicious, relentless machine.
Thinking of Goff in that context – remember how his best days were just before the 2011 election. He had reached the point where I think he knew he had nothing to lose and actually went for it. I think quite a lot of people warmed to him at that stage, and I for one was saddened when he resigned as Leader. When he gave himself permission to give fate the middle finger – Goff looked great.
So while I fully agree with much of what both Tracey and McF are saying – I’d argue that ignoring the machine is not an option either.
not so much “knife vs gun” as “gun vs WMD”, in my opinion.
But don’t forget that some of the worst and most constant harrying of the Labour caucus doesn’t come from the Dirty Tricks side, it comes from pathologically-frustrated lefties and party members.
Every moderate economic comment is a sign of neoliberalism. Every socially tolerant move is a sign of identity politics. Every environmental comment will alienate the working class. Every idea to help beneficiaries will alienate the working poor, and every policy to help the middle class or working poor is treason because it neglects beneficiaries.
This is a legacy of Lab4 and the realisation that Lab5 was a stopgap, not a government with a plan to reverse the neoliberal acid that corrodes our society. But it’s also a direct symptom of what Lab4 created: policy is shit unless it’s all about me and contains 5 pages directly addressing my concerns. We no longer have a general practise of chilling the fuck out and accepting that a good policy which does not directly affect us or our priority is still a good policy.
Now, to pre-empt some righteous indignation, I’m not blaming the membership for the failings of the caucus, nor am I saying that the moaners are the same people each and every time, or even that some of the moans aren’t justified on a case by case basis. But to use a timely analogy the caucus and the membership are like a dysfunctional couple in relationship councilling – rebuilding the relationship after a betrayal takes time, understanding, and is a process. But if they manage to get over their differences and hurt, it could well lead to a stronger and more productive partnership.
Labour’s improving. I think that if they can gain a bit of confidence about policy (having the nats plagiarise their policy book would help with that, even if the nats are plagiarising too little, too late, and badly) and resist the efforts of the DPs to sow distrust, Labour will be able to improve their place in the polls. Which will make the nats shit a brick and make mistakes.
That would make a post McF.
Too busy to respond right now – and to be fair I don’t think I can think of much more that needs saying.
Except that Lab4 was damn nearly 40 years ago now and while I accept the echoes of it are still with us – I’m not persuaded that all the Lab marriage issues are of their own making.
What has changed in that 40 years is the effectiveness and intensity of the dirty tricks and propaganda machine. Like any couple, they’d get on a lot better if life didn’t keep pulling the rug out from under them.
The 30th anniversary of Lab4 was July last year, so it’s hardly ”nearly 40 years ago”.
Also even 40 years is a short time in respect of social and political change.
And its 30-40 years max before some of the worst effects of fossil fuel depletion and climate change hit us. Its not very much time at all to get our political classes fit for purpose.
40 years ago it was dancing cossacks.
80 years ago it was just as vitriolic.
Labour and the Left has always faced a vicious and slanderous tory foe.
But then even some of the stuff Lee said about Savage was pretty cold.
And whenever tories have sensed that internal division in Labour, they’ve also played the role of the jealous outsider who uses gossip to try and break up the marriage.
No, the Left and Labour’s problems aren’t all of their own making. But the mistrust is part of the reason that caucus members can appear gunshy. The longer either side within Labour (to pose a caucus:membership dichotomy) avoids going apeshit, the stronger the relationship is and the easier it will be to ignore the tory gossiping.
Spot on McFlock!
Helen Clark was arguably our best PM ever (yeah I’m biased being a woman and also having personally known her) but she had one achilles heel… she was cautious. Very cautious. Sometimes it was a good thing but other times it was frustrating. She tended to move only as fast as she knew the voters would allow and that was not very fast.
It probably accounted for her longevity as PM but it inevitably meant that progress was disappointing for most left of centre politicos. I do feel annoyance at some commentators here who persistently attack Labour for their lack of assistance to beneficiaries and workers on the minimum wage while in government. In point of fact the hoped for 4th term (which never eventuated) was almost entirely dedicated to addressing those two problems. Their reasoning behind the lack of assistance during their previous terms was the cost factor. They believed they needed to rebuild the financial coffers to a sufficient level before they could effectively help those at the bottom of the heap. And I’m saying this as someone who at the time of the election of the last Labour government was one of those at/or near the bottom of the heap. Another story.
So, the reality is: had the Clark government succeeded in being elected for a 4th term then the lower waged and those who for valid reasons are on benefits, would be infinitely better off today.
It seems to me that Labour’s Left detractors have conveniently forgotten their promises in 2008. And lets remember Labour – unlike National – actually kept most of it’s promises!
We look at this from the eyes of sensible adults, able to view things from the time span of having been around for a few decades. We save and wait, save and wait, save and wait. It’s very sensible.
But look at it from the stand point of a baby born into a family in poverty on the eve of the Labour 5 victory. That child had to go through all its most vulnerable and formative years of life in poverty while Labour waited to “rebuild the financial coffers to a sufficient level” – and then that child instead of getting the long promised benefit of that ‘financial rebuilding’ went on to experience 3 straight terms of National Government.
This is how a generation of young lives has been hopelessly disadvantaged while waiting for ones and zeroes on spreadsheets to come into line with our financialised modern day sensibilities.
Couldn’t agree more CR. That’s how it ended up and that is the tragedy. You can’t blame them for then saying “A pox on all your parties”. One day they will look back (hopefully) and appreciate the pox really lies with the NAct government. I guess the delay of the 5th Labour government had as much to do with politics as it did with “counting pennies”, but without the politics they would have been out of government sooner (2005) and imagine what a Brash govt. would have done to the poor and disenfranchised.
edit: Btw, saving and waiting has been the story of my life. đĄ
“goff looked great”………yea gods as an all time lefty I cannot agree…….what the LP is missing is someone with the correct charisma and a party machine to make it work well…….not to mention policies that don’t scare the bejeebers out of the ordinary working person……fuck me in the last election to vote for them was a cgt tax and having to wait longer for a pension ……your one small “freebie”that joe doe worked so hard for to enjoy for only a few years before they die!!!!
yes @ some will automatically like and dislime.
lp needs to stand for something and someone passionately unapologetically and sincerely
What Crosby does so well is ascertaining the right group to apply manipulations on, and (scarily) then doing it..
We must be what that group is giving some attention to also.
Lets win the hearts and minds of nearly everyone who is providing their attention the best way we can.
There’s this here interwebs for the platform…
The doing of only needs to be done..
We should start by building the appropriate platform…
“Have we really bought into the idea that hatred, irrational fear, prejudice, greed, elitism, authoritarianism, rivalry and malice are the real motivators of human behaviour all all our better instincts are mere sentiment to be occasionally appeased with empty slogans?”
Psychopaths implicitly understand that the best way to manipulate another human being is via fear. Fear bypasses our logic circuits. The environment you describe could be the psychopathic manifesto. An environment where they would have a natural advantage and rise to the top. Every time.
“So, our ârepresentativesâ spend more and more time and money learning the dark arts in order to what? beat the devil at his own game under his own rules and referees, on his playing fields?”
Dr Robert Hare, the most famous expert on psychopathy, strongly warns against trying to beat a psychopath at their own game – you will lose.
Instead of getting sucked in to trying to be a ‘better National’ who tinkers here instead of there, Labour needs to offer a real alternative vision. They need to highlight what a cold, miserable, selfish, uncaring society 30 years of neo-liberalism has delivered us. They need to show that TINA is all about playing on people’s fear of change on behalf of those at the top who benefit from the status quo. They need to show an alternative where our children and their children will be more than units in a corporation doing their bit for the shareholders as required by their zero hours contracts.
It’s pretty boring listening to the concern tr0lls helpfully explaining that we’ll never win if we move further left, and that we must go right to fight for the mythical middle. What they don’t seem to grasp is that for some of us it’s not about ‘we won you lost haha’ like a friggin rubgy game, it’s about reducing inequality, social justice, and a sense of community. We want rational policy for future generations based on science, reality, evidence, not ‘good politics’ window dressing announcements ‘playing well with the public’ based on focus groups, polling, and manipulated voter perceptions. (Btw ‘perceptions are reality’ is in fact the most fundamental mantra of psychopaths.)
If our choice is between National A and National B then even when we ‘win’, we lose.
After Nicky Hager released his book I was watching a lecture he gave to a university class or something. Something he said has stayed with me, “a government that needs dirty politics is a government with something to hide.” National’s agenda is not for public consumption because it is not electable.
Dr Hare’s advice for dealing with a psychopath that has infiltrated your life? Cut your losses and leave: exorcise them from your life but any and all means. We need to stop playing their game and offer something else. Or else what’s the point?
“Dr Robert Hare, the most famous expert on psychopathy, strongly warns against trying to beat a psychopath at their own game â you will lose.”
Well that depends……………….right?
On the person!
Actually you can’t beat a psychopath ‘at their own game’ because then you would be a fucking nutcase yourself, playing the ‘same’ game! Lets run round in fucking circles forever! To beat a psychopath you have to have your own strategy, and one that is flexible to the conditions. You have to role with it, always with your EYE on the goal! There’s always ways to ‘win’, you just have to make sure it happens! Design your ‘outcome’ and control your destiny! Oh and never be afraid, fear is the major ‘stumbling block’ to success! You have to be a rarity to have no fear, if you are one of those, then you really need to be ‘in the field’.
Role with it with your EYE on the goal. Thanks man. You took my comment to the next level.
Conventional business school advice for dealing with psychopaths is to learn as much as you can from them, that is if they have anything to offer, and then get out as fast as you can. Don’t ever try to beat them at their own game.
My own experience with psychopaths is that they can’t strategize – they’re highly reactive – and this may be connected to their problems admitting to past actions.
That’s why good governance can sometimes work as a prophylactic.
Flurries of candour,
Immerse in your open field.
Void is your endlessness,
But lurking just beyond the pale,
Is thy heart?
The beautiful Red,
Rasping in thorns,
On the cusp,
Of the low Moon.
And serenading is the high tide,
With language of old?
Colours mount your brow,
The vibrancy sweeps,
Concurrent,
Securing Her voluptuous limb.
Sweet and warm,
Your breath ascends,
The pavement cracks,
Low long mist wraps,
And coils me in your heavenâs scent,
Inhaling me,
The Virginâs breast awakes.
Once was one time,
Now past,
Her veil sculptured Her face,
On the valiant wind,
As the calling was issued,
Meeting under the fold,
Beneath the ruins of once was.
Clasping my silver,
The pangs that rope my chest,
Tie me to my affliction,
As I quiver in the midnight scold.
With destiny, you ‘deal’ with the situation, when the situation arises!
I ‘can’ do this!
I ‘know’ I can!
He may be a psychopath but I am GOD!
SNAP! agree totally
Smear and Fear ?
Sounds familiar, SNP played the part of Dotcom, if he didnt exist they would have a list of bogey men as long as your arm to use.
The election usually means the leader has to take the prime role in the beatups which are normally done by proxies.
Other examples of Crosby style is pushing more women into responsible cabinet postions, the Tories almost left it too late ,it was a few months before the election. Our Joan of Arc is Paula Bennett, a little talent but rates highly in focus groups as she spouts all the right keywords.
Ken is right , Crosby is best at the business in the Brit centric world since Joseph G
These principles are abstracted from Jowett & O’Donnell.( Propaganda & Persuasion)
Avoid abstract ideas – appeal to the emotions.
Constantly repeat just a few ideas. Use stereotyped phrases.
Give only one side of the argument.
Continuously criticize your opponents.
Pick out one special “enemy” for special vilification.
The actual principles from Goebbels are here:
http://www.physics.smu.edu/pseudo/Propaganda/goebbels.html
that list is why i laugh at those who saying criticising wont work. attacking clark personally was a major part of nats tactic 2007 to 2008. not the only one but this notion they dont do attacking is laughable
I can’t imagine why a bunch of right-wing national party people would be constantly “advising” us not to criticize the govt if it weren’t that they had our best interests at heart.
Yes, it’s an odd thing, these folks who gleefully praise the lies of the government but simultaneously want to help the left.
to Dukeofurl : On reading that url, I find that the author thought Goebbels’ hate stuff might have been because it was wartime. I assure him and anyone reading that url that Goebbels was propaganda minister from 1933.
My small brother had a toy battleship with metal plate on side which blew up ( dislodged) Goebbels’, Ribbentrop and another when hit from a popgun cork. We knew all about these gents as Dad had us listen to propaganda broadcasts for enlightenment. That’s why I could pick his error.
I’m sure Crosby are also equally adept at countering those tactics.
The left needs to learn that skill too.
Goebbels did not develop modern propaganda. He learnt that from the Americans, who became masters at it pre WW1. Edward Bernays.
….continued re propaganda: My other point is that because I learnt early to recognise propaganda, I feel real fear at the brainwashing being so naively taken on board by so many ( in NZ specifically for this conversation) in spite of critical thinking having been taught in schools for many decades.
i agree
Ahhh, a current affairs segment on the news. I remember we used to have them as well, once.
Man, it’s gonna be hard to godwin this one
Could you explain what “godwin” means, please?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
In your own words, if you don’t mind.
Keep spinning it out and see what comes up.
and surprisingly a link to a Crosby masterclass masterclass, very interesting.
http://gu.com/p/488t8/sbl
Crosby a former Labour man…oh the irony!Likeable and well spoken man.
So – how come Prime Minister John Key didn’t beat Winston Peters in the recent Northland ‘buy-election’?
Rather a spectacular FAIL for Crosby Textor?
Or – did Crosby Textor have absolutely nothing to do with National’s ‘hammering’ and Winston’s ‘nailing it’ in Northland?
Any comment on that point Mathew Hooten?
Kind regards
Penny Bright
http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
Propaganda can only take you so far. If you push it too hard, like a property bubble, it will collapse. So National had to look relaxed about Northland, even to the extent of choosing a candidate of no particular promise.
Then, the opposition decided not to shoot each other in the feet for a change – they reached a pre-election accommodation. A strong candidate with strong local ties was chosen.
And National screwed up too – they ran their stupid ghost jobs lie out and got caught out. The bridges gave the media ferals something to talk about. And Key and Joyce realised they’d lost somewhat before and began to distance themselves from their man.
And a few people began to pass the word about prominent New Zealanders – long time National supporters who heard it were sick to their stomachs and didn’t turn out to vote.
Key is a well trained puppet.
Any seasoned journo will treat “press releases” with a healthy dose of scepticism (there are notable exceptions).
What Key does is express the press release himself, and on many occasions it is obvious he has rehearsed his performance.
CT script and rehearse JK all the way.
It works because CT understand the media extremely well.
Key spouting press release bs does not get questioned.
At the end of the day do journos care?
Probly not.
They are there to provide padding between the advertisements that pay their salaries.
Key’s response to the levy tax question was well rehearsed and our hard boiled investigative parliamentary press gallery swallowed it.
We are well past anything Godwins Law could bring up It is looking more like a plutocracy being very carefully nurtured, a la FIFA.
Gordon Gecko and Wall Street rule, ably assisted by by the national party and a subservient media.
I smell a long distant revolution coming, probably about two or three generations into the future, provided geopolitical events have not engulfed us beforehand.
As an aside nz could easily become the new spratley islands and I am sure that jk could broker a deal between usa and china; with a side deal to to hollywood about film rights. All of which which would be breathlessly bruited abroad by our gullible (and possibly corrupt) media swallowing everythihing CT issue.