Cynical

Written By: - Date published: 11:37 am, May 23rd, 2013 - 82 comments
Categories: accountability, capitalism, Conservation, democracy under attack, Mining, same old national, sustainability - Tags:

It looks like Nick Smith will today grant access to West Coast conservation land, with high conservation values, for open cast mining.  This looks like a cynical attempt to enforce the government’s anti-conservation agenda by avoiding the need for public consultation.

He is travelling to Denniston Plateau for his announcement at 12.30pm on Australian mining company Bathurst Resources’ bid to establish its Escarpment Mine on the plateau.

He invited Bathurst staff to attend but not conservation groups opposing the mine, but they planned to go regardless.

Mining companies need a mining permit, resource consent and an access agreement to start a mine. Today’s political decision does not mean the mine has the green light, that is being appealed through the courts, but part of the approval process is whether the Government would allow access to conservation land.

”Nick Smith is going to say yes to mining our high-value conservation land today,” West Coast Environment Network spokeswoman Lynley Hargreaves said today.

NickSmith forked tongue

Hargreaves of the West Coast Mining network claims that the announcement will come the day before Smith is legally required to open up the proposal for consultation.

“Nick Smith is going to say yes to mining our high-value conservation land today,” said West Coast Environment Network spokesperson Lynley Hargreaves. “And he doesn’t want you or I to have any say in that.”

“Three years ago the National Government ceded to public outrage, after 40,000 marched down Queen Street in Auckland. They promised public consultation for significant mining proposals on conservation land,” she added. “That legislation will finally come into force on Friday, a lone positive change in the environmental disaster that was the Crown Minerals Act review.”

“Nick Smith’s decision today will obviously be a rushed decision made simply to avoid public consultation,” she adds. “Open cast mining on high-value conservation land is not something the public of New Zealand support, and the Government knows that.”

Add this to the long list of actions by John Key’s government that cynically disregards or otherwise avoids democratic processes that should be part of The Rule of Law, as posted by Michael Valley on The Standard today.

democracy under attack thumb

 

[Update]  This afternoon, Nick Smith announced the approval of the mining on the Denniston Plateau. The news reports have created some confusion as to the status of the land.  Some are calling it “conservation land”.  Nick Smith says it has “conservation values”.  Regardless, the deal involves the mining company paying compensation for loss of “compensation values”.  The Otago Daily Times, reports the following:

Australian mining company Bathurst Resources has passed a crucial hurdle to establishing an open cast coal mine on the West Coast’s Denniston Plateau near Westport.

Conservation Minister Nick Smith this afternoon he had approved the company’s access agreement for the mine on conservation land.

However the mine still requires consents under the Resource Management Act which remains subject to a pending Environment Court decision.

Environment groups this morning accused Dr Smith of rushing the access approval before new Crown Minerals Act measures requiring public consultation come into effect on Friday. …

“The loss of conservation values is compensated by a $22 million package by Bathurst Resources. This will fund pest and predator control over 25,000 hectares of the Heaphy River catchment in the Kahurangi National Park, 4500 hectares on and around the Denniston Plateau, as well as for historic projects on the Plateau itself.

It still looks to me like a cynical move on Dick Smith’s part, whatever way you look at it.

[Update] The NZ Herald report this afternoon, identifies the fine differences in conservation status, which seems to point to Nick Smith’s previous statement on the land not being “conservation land”,as being diversionary:

Dr Smith said the approval was for an open-cast mine on 106 hectares of the 2026 hectares that comprise the Denniston Plateau.

“This area is not National Park, nor Conservation Park nor does it have any particular reserve status. It is general stewardship land, which is the lowest legal status of protection of land managed by the Department of Conservation.”

The area does have conservation values, although there has been some disturbance from previous mining including roads, bulldozer tracks and an artificial reservoir, Dr Smith said.

This afternoon’s press release by Green MP Catherine Delahunty, also designate the land as “conservation land”.  She also accuses Nik Smith of rushing the approval to avoid the public consultation process that would occur after the amendments to the Crown Mineral Act come into affect tomorrow.

The Labour Party’s press release states that the government has ridden “rough shod” over the process, preventing a compromise being reached between the mining company and conservation groups.

“Labour wants to see an agreement reached where mining can go ahead, allowing for the creation of new jobs, but where precious land is also protected. While the compensation package from Bathurst is welcome, our laws and access to the conservation estate should never be dictated by money,” said Ruth Dyson.

West Coast-Tasman MP Damien O’Connor says the mining industry needs security now more than ever but there is a real risk that this deal will create further legal action because it cuts across negotiations between the parties.

82 comments on “Cynical ”

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  1. Macro 1
    23 May 2013 at 12:06 pm

    Bastards!

    • Paul 1.1
      23 May 2013 at 6:11 pm

      You’re using understatement. There are more grievous words one could use, but then these comments are moderated.
      I assume none if them have grandchildren.
      We know how we are raising the level of CO2 in the atmosphere. We now can the consequences of that.
      Short-sighted, greedy, genocidal to the future…………….but as long as my generation’s alright…
      Some people are utterly contemptible.

  2. tarkwin 2
    23 May 2013 at 12:24 pm

    The sooner they start the better. Plenty of work for West Coasters. The added bonus will be Forest and Bird and the Greens will hate it.

    • karol 2.1
      23 May 2013 at 12:28 pm

      So that’s alright then, tark?!

      Democratic process is a minor consideration for you.

      And thanks, micky, for the legal info below.

      • tarkwin 2.1.1
        23 May 2013 at 12:36 pm

        Plenty of land down there and not enough jobs. Sometimes you have to give a little to gain a lot.

        • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1
          23 May 2013 at 12:39 pm

          Bullshit mate, why should Australians be given the lions share of the profits, if it is our conservation land being destroyed.

          • Tim@tarkwined in the toolshed 2.1.1.1.1
            23 May 2013 at 2:15 pm

            Well err… doh! gee C.V.! When I can get out from under my leftie-baiting ideologically-driven stance, I didn’t think of that

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 2.1.1.2
          23 May 2013 at 12:41 pm

          The ends justify the means, just like in aggravated burglary.

        • Macro 2.1.1.3
          23 May 2013 at 12:43 pm

          do you even know or understand just what is being “given up” in this instance? Bet you have no idea nor even care.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 2.1.1.4
          23 May 2013 at 12:50 pm

          Plenty of jobs on the West Coast.

          But if the local community wants to form a company and mine the hills I think we should at least consider it.

          What’s this proposal again?

    • Colonial Viper 2.2
      23 May 2013 at 12:30 pm

      You’re OK with prime NZ conservation land being destroyed and most of the profit going to Australians (yet again?)

      • Kiev 2.2.1
        23 May 2013 at 12:46 pm

        Conservation – Not Preservation – look it up some time.

        “I have approved this mine because the loss of conservation values is compensated by a $22 million package by Bathurst Resources. The compensation will fund pest and predator control over 25,000 hectares of the Heaphy River catchment in the Kahurangi National Park, 4,500 hectares on and around the Denniston Plateau, as well as for historic projects on the Plateau itself. This is the largest ever compensation package negotiated by DOC for a mine or other commercial venture.

        Sounds like by allowing this to go on in one area, other conservation areas will benefit.

        • mickysavage 2.2.1.1
          23 May 2013 at 12:57 pm

          Interesting that the Government guts DOC funding so it cannot do the job it should then bingo with the help of corporate sponsorship work can be performed. They just have to wreck the conservation estate bit by bit to save the rest which will inevitably get smaller and smaller.

      • Rich the other 2.2.2
        23 May 2013 at 12:48 pm

        30% of NZ land is conservation land , wha’ts 150h ?
        I see the company has pledged to spend $9 million on pest control on the west coast.

      • Andrew 2.2.3
        23 May 2013 at 1:35 pm

        “This approval is for an open-cast mine on 106 hectares of the 2026 hectares that comprise the Denniston Plateau. This area is not National Park, nor Conservation Park nor does it have any particular reserve status. It is general stewardship land, which is the lowest legal status of protection of land managed by the Department of Conservation.”

        http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/denniston-coal-mine-gains-access-approval

        So hardly “prime NZ conservation land being destroyed”. It actually looks like the benefits far outweigh the negatives.

      • Rich the other 2.2.4
        23 May 2013 at 1:36 pm

        Colonial V,
        It gets worse, the damage the greens /forest and bird are doing to communities.

        Quote Nick Smith.
        (( “This area is not national park, nor conservation park, nor does it have any particular reserve status,” he said ))

        What the hell is going on ,what have these organisations cost our economy?

        UNBELEVIABLE.

        • karol 2.2.4.1
          23 May 2013 at 1:50 pm

          The information so far is confusing as to the status of the land. The Stuff article I link to in my above post says that it is “conservation land”, as does the press release I link to. The stuff article then quotes Nick Smith as saying it’s not conservation land.

          So, while awaitng confirmation as to the exact status of the land, I’ll go with the lesser term & have amended my post accordingly. Also, the Stuff article says:

          Bathurst will provide $22 million as compensation for loss of conservation values.

          So, whatever the status of the land, the mining will undermine the conservation of it, and the move to allow the mining the day before the act comes into force, requiring consultation, does look cynical.

          • Rich the other 2.2.4.1.1
            23 May 2013 at 2:14 pm

            Karol,
            The local residents were one of the first objectors ,consultation took place with the locals , an agreement reached and the objections were withdrawn.

            If they had of waited it would have just replicated a process that had already taken place.

            • karol 2.2.4.1.1.1
              23 May 2013 at 2:21 pm

              According to the sources linked in my post, the government promised “public consultation”, not just with people in the local area. This is land that we all have an interest in.

          • Chris 2.2.4.1.2
            23 May 2013 at 3:59 pm

            The land is conversation land – but under the banner conservation land there are several classifications (with national park being highest, then conservation park down to a stewardship area. As Nick Smith said this area is a stweardship area.

            Also to clear up Nick Smith said it wasn’t a conservation park not that it wasn’t conservation land.

            • karol 2.2.4.1.2.1
              23 May 2013 at 4:53 pm

              The earlier version of the Stuff article quoted Smith as saying “conservation land”. His quotes have now changed in the latest version of the Stuff article. I have updated my post with that quote from the NZ Herald.

  3. mickysavage 3
    23 May 2013 at 12:24 pm

    Wow. Right you are Karol.

    The Crown Minerals Amendment Act 2013 comes into force on May 24 (http://legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2013/0121/latest/DLM5153609.html).

    I have only had a quick squiz at the act itself (http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2013/0014/latest/whole.html#DLM4756217) but there are some obligations for the Minister to consult with affected parties.

    As Macro said, Bastards.

  4. King Kong 4
    23 May 2013 at 12:28 pm

    About fucking time

    • Macro 4.1
      23 May 2013 at 12:40 pm

      The primitive ape speaks again – and once again it is all about self! KK you impress me as one fucking selfish bastard! You will leave this world a poorer place, and your children and grandchildren will hate you for it.

      • Paul 4.1.1
        23 May 2013 at 9:08 pm

        Yup, folk like KK they only care for themselves. They haven’t even developed the empathy gene for their own grand kids , let alone a general care for society.
        Quite sad really.

  5. Tigger 5
    23 May 2013 at 12:36 pm

    We’re well overdue for a daily Democracy Under Attack banner in every media outlet. Herald? You used to be so worried about this stuff? Why so quiet?

  6. Rich the other 6
    23 May 2013 at 12:40 pm

    Go NICK.
    I know a couple of forest and bird members who have had enough of the political agenda behind of this.
    The green party’s influence on forest and bird needs to be exposed.
    These people joined f&b in good faith but had no idea they would be so negative towards peoples needs.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 6.1
      23 May 2013 at 12:46 pm

      Stop your whining and harden up, it’s just the way things are: Kiwis value New Zealand more than they value your back pocket.

    • lprent 6.2
      23 May 2013 at 12:47 pm

      They can vote and organise right? Are they too lazy to get actively involved? That is what you do inside organisations you can join as a member. When you don’t like their direction what you have to do is to convince a *significant* number of members to change it’s direction. Or you leave and start another organisation.

      But simply whining about it is lazy, stupid and usually ineffectual. However I do notice that the RWNJ’s do seem to think it is the route to everything – look at the history of the Act party for instance. Or some of the idiots that think that whining about how we run this private site here.

    • mickysavage 6.3
      23 May 2013 at 12:58 pm

      We don’t need coal. We do need to leave it in the ground.

      • Populuxe1 6.3.1
        23 May 2013 at 10:38 pm

        We’ll need it soon enough when we hit peak oil. I expect a lot of people will be changing their tune when they come to understand the brutalities of living with irreversable climate change and not being able to power the technologies that will help us survive it.

    • BLiP 6.4
      23 May 2013 at 3:48 pm

      ‘

      Like “Forest and Bird” is all about “people”.

    • prism 6.5
      23 May 2013 at 9:21 pm

      Rich t’other Did your friends think that forest and bird was about having a high time with the opposite sex in a sylvan setting? They must have been drunk when they joined up.

    • Clockie 6.6
      23 May 2013 at 10:48 pm

      “I know a couple of forest and bird members who have had enough of the political agenda ”

      Had they never heard of the Save Manapouri Campaign? Did they think they were joining a bird watching club?

  7. tarkwin 7
    23 May 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Why are so many people here anti jobs here?

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 7.1
      23 May 2013 at 1:37 pm

      Why can’t you engage with the arguments they are advancing rather than making up puerile strawmen? Are you twelve?

      • tarkwin 7.1.1
        23 May 2013 at 1:51 pm

        Heres a good idea, why don’t we ask the people of the West Coast what they want?

        • Macro 7.1.1.1
          23 May 2013 at 2:06 pm

          because the denniston plateau does NOT belong to the citizens of the west coast any more than it belongs to Nick Smith. It belongs to EVERY citizen of this country.

    • framu 7.2
      23 May 2013 at 1:37 pm

      why do so many people here hate puppies? Surely thats a much more pertinent question

      • handle 7.2.1
        23 May 2013 at 7:23 pm

        When did the snail-lovers stop beating their wives, you mean? Quality argument.

  8. kahu 8
    23 May 2013 at 1:49 pm

    Excellent news! Jobs and a $22m compensation package. “The compensation will fund pest and predator control over 25,000 hectares of the Heaphy River catchment in the Kahurangi National Park, 4,500 hectares on and around the Denniston Plateau”. Fantastic, have to hand it to the Nats on this one.

    [lprent: Read the policy. Looking at your three comments to date, you read like a particularly stupid astroturfing spambot. Display that you’re human with some actual thought rather than mindlessly reading from a PR wanklist or you will be treated as a misbehaving bot. In the meantime I’ll add you to auto-spam and I’ll keep an eye out to see if you start looking like a human. ]

    • Macro 8.1
      23 May 2013 at 2:07 pm

      Have you any idea of what you are saying? This will come back to bite you hard.

    • kahu 8.2
      23 May 2013 at 5:30 pm

      Whoa! Easy on the aggression there Lynn. Just had a read of the policy. Would love to know where I’ve overstepped the mark? “We encourage robust debate and we’re tolerant of dissenting views”.

      Don’t quite understand the auto-spam thing but presume this is some sort of ban? Any response appreciated. Thanks.

      [lprent: You might notice that everyone writes their thoughts here reasonably freely, and there is usually a pretty wide range of views. There isn’t a pile of a short canned comments trying to look like a twitter feed.

      There is a reason for that. We’re interested in your views. We’re not interested in comments that look like they been regurgitated out of list of pithy PR lines. The site has a number of ogres acting as moderators (including me) and we get bored with unoriginal unthinking twaddle cluttering up the thousands of comments per week.

      My personal approach is to either dump first comments until we get something indicating intelligence. If an apparent loss of intelligence occurs later then I tend to run a turing test to find out if there is any sign of sentience..

      So it tends to be inadvisable to write comments that don’t look like any thought went into them and/or to treat comments as being fire and forget and not reply to responses. Either tends to make me think you might not be sentient and start treating you as bad code.

      Happens too often and I consider that you aren’t worth my wasting precious time (a cardinal sin) backchecking recent comments. After you’ve been around a wee while I might remember that I have seen you before not bother backchecking. Until then it is inadvisable to write things that trigger my troll/bot moderating instincts.

      You may not like this approach. But as you might have figured out from the policy, we really don’t care what you think when we are moderating. You task is not to attract moderator attention by using your brain to express your own views.. Those we are mostly tolerant of (unless they get too offensive). ]

  9. Pete 9
    23 May 2013 at 1:53 pm

    The Labour movement was born in the mines. A lot of us aren’t against mining, but there’s got to be a fair return in royalties to the public purse and an appropriately balanced assessment of the risks to the environment.I would be loathe to see mountaintop removal mining gain traction in NZ.

    • tarkwin 9.1
      23 May 2013 at 3:43 pm

      Pretty much what I was getting at Pete. I’m not suggesting wholesale destruction of the conservation estate, but the people down there need jobs. Many of them are miners, mining is what they know and in the mine is where they want to be. As Rich pointed out earlier Forest and Bird is becoming more like the Greens by the day. That’s up to them but as a registered charity they should be careful. If they cared as much about people as they do about their cause they would accomplish a lot more and alienate a lot less.

      • karol 9.1.1
        23 May 2013 at 3:50 pm

        Well, the Labour Party seems to agree with you. I have added the main content of their press release to the bottom of my post. They say the government has destroyed the opportunity for the mining company and conservation groups to reach a compromise, and provide secure jobs.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 9.1.2
        23 May 2013 at 3:50 pm

        Yeah, you should start up a right wing forest and bird and you could all go and look at stuffed animals in museums together.

        • tarkwin 9.1.2.1
          23 May 2013 at 4:16 pm

          I’m trying to have a reasonable conversation with a couple of people here – it’s nice to see we do have some things in common, thanks Karol and then we get a neanderthal fuckwit like yourself who can do no better than make stupid irrelevant comments that aren’t even funny – loser.

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead 9.1.2.1.1
            23 May 2013 at 4:48 pm

            I should try scrolling up the page if I were you: you’ll find comments by some twit with the same name as you, saying how great it is that people will hate this, and how they hate jobs.

            Then you could reflect on how you present yourself, and on how people could easily take you for an asshole.

            • tarkwin 9.1.2.1.1.1
              23 May 2013 at 5:13 pm

              No, it’s just you. Most people are happy to engage, we may not always agree but at least I try – something you could never be acused of.

              • Clockie …
                23 May 2013 at 5:41 pm

                “The added bonus will be Forest and Bird and the Greens will hate it.”

                That right there is a deliberately targeted and provocative remark of the “arsehole” variety.

                I for one don’t engage with people who start conversations like that.

              • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                23 May 2013 at 5:48 pm

                Probably better to accuse me of not engaging in a thread I haven’t, y’know, engaged in. I’m starting to wonder if you’re “scroll-up” challenged or something.

                For you, the ends justify the means, for example, and democracy and due process can get fucked. For you, temporary jobs are more important than the CO2 content of the atmosphere.

                I’ll engage all you like. What I’m not prepared to do is compromise with you, because that way you just get everything you want and New Zealand ends up a worse, poorer place as a result. In short, rejecting your witless drivel with contempt is in the national interest.

                • tarkwin …
                  24 May 2013 at 7:52 am

                  I think it’s best if I leave you to sit in your cave talking to yourself. Abusing and chasing people away won’t improve this site. I saw mickysavage get a load of crap poured on him on whale oil the other day, it was embarrassing to watch and totally uncalled for. A little tollerance goes a long way.

                  • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                    24 May 2013 at 8:01 am

                    Oh, did you mistake my criticism of your opinion for a personal attack? I am sorry for the pain in your mind.

      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.3
        23 May 2013 at 5:53 pm

        …but the people down there need jobs.

        Are you sure about that? How much work would actually be required if we only provided what we needed?

        I think you’ll find that it’s far less than what we do now. The only reason why we have as much work as we do isn’t because we supply what we need but because a few parasites want to be even richer usually at everyone else’s expense.

        BTW, people actually need the environment and so conserving it is part of looking after them.

        • McFlock 9.1.3.1
          23 May 2013 at 6:21 pm

          From what I gather from friends in the industry, many of those folk would still be employed if the nats hadn’t run Solid energy into the ground [ba-dum- tcsh. But it is a serious point].

          • One Anonymous Knucklehead 9.1.3.1.1
            23 May 2013 at 6:29 pm

            Yeah, good point, where are the 170,000 jobs? If these toxic (tailings run-off) Tories gave a toss about employment levels they’d be voting for a party with a better track record.

            Hypocrisy and conservatism in bed together again. Yawn.

  10. fambo 10
    23 May 2013 at 3:35 pm

    There was once a great big pie. Someone thought “If I eat a piece, there will still be plenty over for the future.” But after a while their tummy started to rumble so they thought “If I have another piece, there will still be lots pie left for the future.” Sometime after that their tummy was rumbling again so once again they had another piece of pie. In no time at all, there was no pie at all.

  11. BLiP 11
    23 May 2013 at 3:54 pm

    ‘

    ” . . . the Beehive, the Beehive, where everyone gets a bargain . . . ”

    Yes, that’s right folks, we have special deals on values and rights and justice for sale. Ask our friendly salesman John Key and he’ll show you the latest range available. New Zealand has on special human rights, employment rights, copyrights, and conservation values just waiting to fly out the door at these ridiculour prices.

    35 year guarantee!!!!!OMG!!11!!!

    • GregJ 11.1
      23 May 2013 at 5:06 pm

      Must be a travelling salesman at that – not only Hollywood but downtown Wellington (Willeston Street) when he opened Bathurst’s new operations office in March 2012.

      I note that Bathurst is also looking to re-incorporate as a New Zealand company (not that the majority of the ownership won’t still be overseas of course – Bank of America & JP Morgan Chase own about 16% and Australian L1 Capital Pty Limited about 11%).

  12. marty mars 12
    23 May 2013 at 5:05 pm

    It’s a funny old world

    solid energy may go belly-up

    “Stricken state owned coal miner Solid Energy’s future appears bleak according to a recently completed report on the company, Prime Minister John Key indicated yesterday.

    Key said corporate advisers KordaMentha had just completed their report on the company which is on the brink of collapse after being crippled by low coal prices and almost $400 million in debts.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10885062

    Bathhurst know that the price of coal is low but

    “It [coal] has come off the highs of the last 18 months quite considerably but you have to run your business so that in the bad times you’re holding your nose above water and in the good times you’re making good money for investors and the nation.”

    “Uncertainty hangs over more than 200 workers at Solid Energy’s Spring Creek mine but Bathurst’s Escarpment Mine on the plateau would provide 225 direct jobs.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10833623

    wow what a great plan – switch the workers from solid energy to bathurst – there’s economic growth for you.

    DoC don’t care – or do they?

    “A Department of Conservation briefing paper to the Minister, released under the Official Information Act, is more realistic about the mine’s likely impacts. It states:

    • “The proposed open cast mine and consequent over burden dumps would permanently alter the landscape through the removal of a natural ridgeline; leaving post rehabilitation in the vicinity of 75% of the altered landscape unrevegetated.”

    • “The profound change in substrate and hydrology would alter the vegetation associations post-mining and reduce the current ecological integrity of the elevated Denniston Plateau.”

    • “The applicant makes much of the fact that they would be removing existing sources of acid mine drainage (Wharetea Plateau and Birchalls Co-operative mines); however, 156 hectares of exposed potentially acid forming rock would likely create a far more significant acid mine drainage problem.”

    The paper also notes:

    • “The entire Denniston Plateau lies within the “West Coast Kawatiri Place” and is identified as a “Priority Site for Biodiversity Management. It is also described as a nationally outstanding landscape…”

    http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/claims-mining-won-t-destroy-denniston-plateau-ecology-laughable

    I’ve blogged on this in the past and my point is simple – the proposed financial benefits are fanciful and the devastation is factual.
    http://mars2earth.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/if-we-let-them.html

    • karol 12.1
      23 May 2013 at 6:37 pm

      Interview with Lynley Hargreaves on Checkpoint tonight. She said DOC has been trying to get the Deniston Plateau declared schedule 4 land, but have been hindered by being under funded and under staffed.

      http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ckpt/ckpt-20130523-1752-environmentalists_angry_at_denniston_plateau_mining_decision-048.mp3

      She said it’s not “low value” land as suggested by Nick Smith, but high value land that should be protected.

    • Rich the other 12.2
      23 May 2013 at 7:54 pm

      Marty mars.
      Correction , try to be honest.
      Solid energy’s problems are more about debt than the lower coal price.
      Solid energy has under an ground under ground operation and Elder stated it was getting more costly to harvest.
      Bathurst is low cost open cast operation and produces a premium product ,used only for steel production.

      Good news from China ( yesterday) ,they are proposing to import only a higher grade of thermal coal for power generation from around the world ,the impact of this will be an estimated overall 8% lift in the coal price.

      Please don’t quote the greens , they are a poisonous and destructive influence on to many issues.

      This is a great deal , if anything a little to generous from Bathurst.

      • marty mars 12.2.1
        23 May 2013 at 9:27 pm

        well rich this is what key said the expert report said “after being crippled by low coal prices…” get it?

        I’m quoting the Greens because they are quoting the advice to the Minister from DoC released under the Official Information Act – get it?

        You say, “This is a great deal…” – I think you are thick – get it?

        • Rich the other 12.2.1.1
          24 May 2013 at 10:01 am

          Marty mars,
          They were crippled not knocked out.
          The problem was financing a very high debt level created by trialing to many new projects at once.
          If they hadn’t tried to diversify and just sold coal they would have been fine.

          This is a very very good look for the Nat’s, labour has again failed miserably and the greens/forest&bird just continue to on there destructive way.

          • marty mars 12.2.1.1.1
            24 May 2013 at 10:50 am

            yes Rich we are in agreement on that point – I didn’t say they were knocked out which is why I put the quote in.

            The high debt contributed too as you outline.

            Not sure about the look for the gnats considering key has been caught out lying again but we shall see, after all there have been quite a few straws now and that camel’s back can only take so much before it breaks.

      • Draco T Bastard 12.2.2
        23 May 2013 at 9:54 pm

        This is a great deal , if anything a little to generous from Bathurst.

        We have the lowest royalties in the world and the company won’t even have to pay those royalties on the world market price but on the price they sell it to their mates in Australia.

        As for the $22m – I’ll be surprised if we ever see any of it and does the deal have them cleaning up afterwards?

        What happens if they go into receivership before they clean up the mess?

  13. karol 13
    23 May 2013 at 6:17 pm

    And 3 News has just reported that Nick Smith admitted he pushed the deal through the day before the law goes live that would require them to consult with the public.

    PS; Smith said on RNZ’s checkpoint tonight that the law that comes in tomorrow would result in a worse deal, because, under tomorrow’s law it would give more weight to economic benefits and there’d be less conservation benefits.

    http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ckpt/ckpt-20130523-1707-mining_conservation_land_on_the_denniston_plateau-048.mp3

  14. tc 14
    23 May 2013 at 9:34 pm

    See why Nick Smith was brought back now can’t we, a complete and utter disregard for anything other than fulfilling the Hollowman script.

    They had to cool his heels otherwise he’d be beyond toxic by now, give him another 6 months and they’ll throw him away but leave all his work in place.

    • Nordy 14.1
      23 May 2013 at 9:43 pm

      Exactly tc….sadly this will not register with many outside the so-called ‘beltway’. One of the achievements of the hollowmen is make politics a game of little importance and relevance.

      The apathy and the distain for principled discourse on any important political subject is a sad reflection on society and the MSM.

      marty mars – nice work….not really that difficult to bring some reality to the discussion – well done!

    • karol 14.2
      24 May 2013 at 8:13 am

      Nick Smith is a nasty piece of work. Interesting though to listen to his interview (as in my comment @ 13 (6.17pm) above.

      Mary Wilson keeps prodding and Smith then admits that the law that comes into being today will mean mining will be permitted on more of the conservation estate, and that it has been the governments intention for a while to enable that.

  15. swordfish 15
    23 May 2013 at 11:13 pm

    Presumably designed in part to cause a split – or at least a sense of uneasiness – between Labour and the Greens and to lose Labour a few Party-Votes on the West Coast. He’s a cunning little minx, that Hone Key.

  16. Benjamin B. 16
    23 May 2013 at 11:38 pm

    Doesn’t John Key have Bathurst shares?

    • Benjamin B. 16.1
      23 May 2013 at 11:40 pm

      OK he has shares in the Bank of America which owns part of Bathurst. And he attended Bathurst’s Wgtn office opening. Conflict of interest anyone. No question mark.

      • felix 16.1.1
        24 May 2013 at 3:22 am

        I’d guess he’s pretty relaxed about it.

        Key doesn’t really understand “conflict of interest.” It’s just a competitive advantage. It’s how you get things done. It’s how you get ahead.

        Like so many thing we take as read, he knows that it’s not acceptable to other people and so it’s best to keep quiet. But that’s just a learned response. At a fundamental level he simply doesn’t understand why it’s wrong.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 16.1.1.1
          24 May 2013 at 8:18 am

          I think it’s inevitable that democracy will throw up these types from time to time. The system should be robust enough to cope with them.

          I don’t think ours is.

        • Benjamin B. 16.1.1.2
          24 May 2013 at 8:04 pm

          Yes, I get your point, but that of course doesn’t make things any better, does it.