Daily review 06/10/2022

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, October 6th, 2022 - 46 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

46 comments on “Daily review 06/10/2022 ”

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    • Matiri 1.1
      6 October 2022 at 7:26 pm

      and spare a thought for the civil servants having to cope with Truss and her dysfunctional and rapidly shrinking team.

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/06/civil-servants-liz-truss-ideology-honesty

      • Poission 1.1.1
        6 October 2022 at 7:36 pm

        The independence of the Institutions is a formative part of the strength and stability of the UK financial systems.

        Removing the Treasury permanent secretary,Jawboning changes to the structure of the monetary policy part of the BOE,and not allowing the Office of budget responsibility to provide independent oversight on the Mini budget undermined the trust and confidence of both international regulators,rating agencies,and the requirements of investors,hence the wack.

  2. Belladonna 2
    6 October 2022 at 7:43 pm

    I know this is something Weka, in particular, has been concerned over: but the health researchers have started studies into long Covid in NZ – the prevalence, symptoms, etc.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/flood-of-noah-like-proportions-the-studies-revealing-long-covids-hidden-toll-in-nz/XOHJIOSOLGI2T63NEVMMAOGWIU/?c_id=1&objectid=12556726&ref=rss

    • Patricia Bremner 2.1
      6 October 2022 at 8:58 pm

      Long covid in Australia has 200 recognised symptoms. It really knocks people. Our son was off and on working, for three months with terrible headaches.

      Apparently there are markers in the blood. Especially of poor oxygen transfer, and serious inflammation of arteries and veins. There was little help . Just antihistamines and analgesics and time.

  3. Belladonna 3
    6 October 2022 at 8:00 pm

    Results out in the complicated SFO cases against the Labour and National parties.

    The Chinese businessmen involved in the National case have been convicted – for some, but not all, of the donations issues – but Jamie Lee Ross appears to have escaped (admitting in court that he lied about Bridges' involvement).

    The Labour Party were found not-guilty for their auction fundraising system (despite the same Chinese businessman (as above) buying items under 5 different identities)

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/labour-and-national-donations-trial-guilty-and-not-guilty-verdicts-over-political-money/3PLWRHOFHWM4WCQZ35EINWNJCM/?c_id=3&objectid=12556307&ref=rss

    In other news, Crown Law are seeking leave to appeal the result of the SFO case against the NZ First Foundation (and individuals who did not pass on donations).

    I know that Labour have an electoral donations law going through the house at the moment – it will be interesting to see if all 3 of these issues would be resolved with law changes:

    *Splitting donations, to avoid them being named and listed (which is already illegal) – but will there be additional safeguards against this?

    * Auctions of items at inflated prices as fundraisers. [Be honest, everyone knows this is a donation under another name]

    * Donations accepted by individuals associated with a political party (or funding body for a political party), intended by the donors for political purposes, and used for political purposes – but not passed on to the party (and therefore not 'required' to be listed as donations).

    • Muttonbird 3.1
      6 October 2022 at 8:51 pm

      Why did you do this:

      The Chinese businessmen involved in the National case have been convicted.

      Chinese businessmen in the dock, not the National Party.

      The Labour Party were found not-guilty for their auction fundraising system.

      Labour Party in the dock, not the Chinese businessmen.

      I think you did it because you are a card carrying right wing nut job softly trolling this forum.

      [The last sentence is nothing but a personal attack and the whole comment is nothing but an attempt at flaming. Cut it out – Incognito]

      • Incognito 3.1.1
        6 October 2022 at 9:22 pm

        Mod note

      • Muttonbird 3.1.2
        6 October 2022 at 9:26 pm

        I accept the last sentence is a personal attack but the rest is important because BD alleged something false, that the Labour Party was on trial but was found not guilty. That is wrong on every level.

        It's really important to keep an eye on misinformation don't you think?

        • Incognito 3.1.2.1
          6 October 2022 at 9:40 pm

          You made the same personal attack twice, which is akin using (verbal/written) violence on this site and a bannable offence. The end doesn’t justify the means – stay within the very wide boundaries of robust debate on/of this site and make political commentary & points without the personal baggage. I add that this is not the first time you’ve crossed this line.

          • Muttonbird 3.1.2.1.1
            6 October 2022 at 9:46 pm

            Well, I've made a more measured response which is my deeply held belief at 3.1.3.1.1.1

            Please let me know if I shouldn't point out misinformation when I think I see it.

            • Incognito 3.1.2.1.1.1
              6 October 2022 at 10:04 pm

              Please understand that I have modded you and I only reply in the non-bolded manner because it is easier than doing it in long protracted Mod notes that apparently confuse others.

              You can make your arguments and/or call out misinformation as long as you do it without resorting to personal attacks. You know full well how robust debate works on this site and it is actually very difficult to run afoul of the site’s Policy and the Mods!

              In the context of this thread (starting @ 3), I consider your reply @ 3.1.3.1.1.1 unnecessarily and overly aggressive, personal, and hostile and almost void of fact and genuine argument that can be discussed in a constructive manner. As such, I find your language still as aimed at excluding and/or silencing others with whom you disagree. This is another bannable offence.

              Rather than litigating this till midnight, and wasting more of my time as Mod, you have the choice of dropping your current MO or receiving a ban.

      • Belladonna 3.1.3
        6 October 2022 at 9:26 pm

        In the National Party donations scheme. JL Ross and the Chinese businessmen were charged. JL Ross found not-guilty. Chinese buinessmen found guilty.

        [IMO Ross was just as guilty, and should have been convicted. There is no way the businessmen thought up that scheme on their own.]

        For the Labour Party donations scheme, we don't know exactly who was involved. Some of the Chinese businessmen who were involved in the NP case above, were, and there were 3 mysterious 'other defendants' – some of whom must have been connected to the Labour Party in some way – otherwise how would the donations have ever got there! We have the statement that no current MPs or LP officials were involved (that leaves the field wide open – as we saw in the NZF case)

        It is very difficult (for normal people at least) to blame the Chinese businessmen for the well-oiled Labour donations-disguised-as-auction scheme. They were, however, culpable (in my eyes, even if not in the courts) for the dodge of buying under different identities.

        However, your response has made me go digging further – and found that the case is more 'not proven' than innocent.

        Based on this article, the Judge would have found them (both the businessmen and the mysterious '3 other defendants') guilty, if the SFO had done their homework and got proper valuations of the 'artworks' concerned.

        https://www.newsroom.co.nz/how-sfo-failed-in-labour-donations-case

        • Muttonbird 3.1.3.1
          6 October 2022 at 9:32 pm

          Great stuff.

          At what point was the Labour Party on trial so that it could be found "not guilty", in your words?

          • Belladonna 3.1.3.1.1
            6 October 2022 at 9:38 pm

            Setting aside whether or not I chose the most felicitous phrasing, what do you think of the meat of the issue.

            Do you agree with the courts over the outcome of both cases?

            Do you agree with the application by the SFO to re-open the NZF case?

            Do you think that all 3 of the points I listed should be in the donations legislation currently passing through parliament?

            • Muttonbird 3.1.3.1.1.1
              6 October 2022 at 9:43 pm

              Don't try to back down now by claiming you didn't mean what you said. You must do an official withdrawal of the false claim the Labour Party was on trial and was found not guilty. You made that up because nothing of the sort happened.

              Imo, you deliberately spread misinformation for political gain, Belladonna, something which I'm sure even you would agree is dangerous.

              • Belladonna …
                6 October 2022 at 10:49 pm

                I see. Clearly unwilling to actually debate. Only interested in gotcha.

                Waste of time.

              • weka …
                6 October 2022 at 11:12 pm

                mate, take a break and settle down. It's easy enough to see that Belladonna probably just misspoke in her phrasing. Just correct what she said and move one. If you keep up the attacks it will cause problems and you know how that goes.

                You've got plenty of good stuff to say about politics, come back with some of that.

                • bwaghorn …
                  7 October 2022 at 6:23 am

                  Yeah na I've always found alot of belladonnas comment to come across as soft trolling as mutton bird says, if she won't admit she misspoke as you say then she lied on purpose.

      • Anker 3.1.4
        6 October 2022 at 9:31 pm

        I find Belladonna very informative and balanced. One of the best commentaters on this site.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 3.1.5
        6 October 2022 at 10:08 pm

        "Respectful centrist" is a deception, imho – "Be honest, everyone knows" – and it rankles.

        Deceit and dishonesty are fast friends – politics is first and foremost about trust, imo.

        The Hollow Men
        A study in the politics of deception
        Forward by Marilyn Waring

        Dirty Politics
        How attack politics is poisoning New Zealand’s political environment

        The Nats will stop at nothing; nothing – quelle surprise.

        National's previous scandals under scrutiny after Sam Uffindell admits to violently assaulting boy at school [9 August 2022]

        'Hopeless' would be charitable.

        • Incognito 3.1.5.1
          6 October 2022 at 10:33 pm

          FYI, my deception detector is set very sensitively, especially now during elections, but I’m yet to raise the alarm with this particular commenter unlike one other one whose name(s) I shall not mention who’s deliberately evasive, deceitful, and dishonest and with whom I have my finger on the trigger of the ban axe 24/7.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 3.1.5.1.1
            6 October 2022 at 10:45 pm

            Thanks Incognito – it's just my perception, based on the balance of comments in evidence. I don't much mind obvious bias and ‘unhinged/shouty’ – it's calculated, sly misrepresention that irks so. Could be on the wrong track – time may tell.

    • Muttonbird 3.2
      6 October 2022 at 9:20 pm

      In fact you have asserted the Labour Party was on trial in your post which is completely wrong, but as a card carrying right wing nut job you thought you could get away with slipping that in there.

      I read the article and I am watching you…

      • Incognito 3.2.1
        6 October 2022 at 9:24 pm

        I’ve just modded you. Read it and pay heed.

        • Muttonbird 3.2.1.1
          6 October 2022 at 9:27 pm

          Done so and replied, thanks.

          • weka 3.2.1.1.1
            6 October 2022 at 9:41 pm

            what you don't seem to realise is that even if BD is a card carrying right wing nut job softly trolling this forum*, it's not a problem so long as they can make the political arguments and stay withing the general rules. Which they do.

            If you think someone says something factually incorrect, then just correct it. This is not difficult.

            *I don't think she is.

            • Muttonbird 3.2.1.1.1.1
              6 October 2022 at 9:49 pm

              Ok, I did try to correct the misinformation which is the important bit.

              Belladonna has since agreed she/he was soft trolling @3.1.3.1.1 but has yet to fully retract.

  4. SPC 4
    6 October 2022 at 8:43 pm

    Not everyone is a fan of the RNZ-TVNZ merger.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/10/new-zealand-s-media-bosses-tell-mps-proposed-tvnz-rnz-merger-riddled-with-problems.html

    For mine the issues were/are

    1. improved funding for RNZ (concert and youth stations), to restore the organisation to where it was before the "lobotomisation" – focus on developing its small presence in the Auckland market. Maybe that large Auckland market needs its own station …while maintaining a presence for the those few there interested in a higher level of discourse. And have it access funding for current affairs investigative work – also available online.

    2. with TVNZ … where does one start. It's a commercial broadcaster on 5 channels (two timeshift/repeats) and has an On Demand service.

    In the past, some have advocated for RNZ/public TV broadcaster merger (or to reduce TVNZ to a public service broadcaster).

    For mine we need to divide TVNZ in two parts, while improving RNZ and then look at a merger. And while doing this encourage TVNZ to improve its current affairs performance – specified funding (available On Demand/online).

    A public broadcaster would need at least one TV channel. And its own on-line service.

    • Belladonna 4.1
      6 October 2022 at 8:59 pm

      TBH, it's difficult to find anyone who does think it's a good idea.

      That may be because most of the commentators are in the media, which is about to be affected by this massive change (all change is destabilizing, at least in the short term).

      However, I've yet to hear Jackson give a good rebuttal of some very specific concerns around the size and commercial heft of the new entity, and the direct ministerial control to be exercised by the government of the day.

      He has come out and said that dropping trust in the media is a primary driver of this change (a rather strange statement, on the face of it – why would combining the entities increase public trust? And that's setting aside all the foot-in-mouth issues associated with that statement.)

      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/475747/broadcasting-minister-clears-up-comments-on-no-trust-in-nz-television-and-radio

      But has yet to clearly articulate the other benefits (which surely must exist).

  5. weston 5
    6 October 2022 at 9:06 pm

    Nice clip of Tucker having fun at the expense of stupid fellow Americans and doing a solo act of calling out his own gov for doing Nordstream



    • SPC 5.1
      6 October 2022 at 9:20 pm

      Is this another reprise of the “if the right is a friend of Russia, it has left wing friends opposed to neo-liberal Democrats”

      Remember watching a TV programme about the place called Chernobyl?

      https://nominister.wordpress.com/2022/10/03/nordstream_and_its_pmcs/

      • SPC 5.1.1
        6 October 2022 at 9:45 pm

        So the options are

        1. The company acting on Putin's offer to resume gas supplies to Germany if they end sanctions, and makes a mistake.

        2. The offer by Putin was a bluff/diversion to an op to take out the pipeline – so the company could walk away from its debt

        Nord Stream 2 was developed and is operated by Nord Stream 2 AG, a subsidiary of the Russian state energy company Gazprom. Nord Stream 2 AG filed for bankruptcy on 1 March 2022. Half the costs of Nordstrom Stream 2 was financed via a loan from Uniper, Wintershall Dea, OMV, Engie, and Royal Dutch Shell.

        Presumably Gazprom will not being paying the loan back. And presumably they are now looking to supply gas to others via other pipelines.

        and the psy ops – make the Europeans think Biden did it, and have the useful right wingers like Tucker say Biden Biden pre the 2022 Congressional elections. And note this was timed before the OPEC decision to cut production and force up prices into the northern winter.

  6. SPC 6
    6 October 2022 at 9:13 pm

    The notable story of the week is how Treasury managed to get its budget deficit forecast for the year so wrong.

    Did no one connect the dots, rising inflation leads to rising incomes for tax purposes?

    This has some impact on debt levels and debt finance plans.

    I have long suspected that Treasury deliberately does this to restrain government spending plans – incite radical plans for reducing the size of "unaffordable" government and or enable National to then provide tax cuts and remain within debt projections (yes National is quite able to do both at the same time in partnership with ACT).

    The cost to us – not meeting our 1948 Human Rights commitments in education, health housing and income is obvious.

  7. Woolly Mammoth 7
    6 October 2022 at 11:58 pm

    SPC

    Your interpretation of the pipelines' destruction is compelling if you ignore motive, opportunity, intent and mounting circumstantial and documentary evidence.

    Or did Russia contract Tom Cruise and the 'Mission Impossible' crew to install self-destructing pipelines?

    • SPC 7.1
      7 October 2022 at 2:01 am

      The hypothesis in the link is compelling (as its possibly – unless it was a planned accident) the inadvertent event answer.

      As to motive/intent/opportunity, they are equivalent as to US/Russia.

      You could apprise others of what you regard as mounting circumstantial and documentary evidence.

      Or, if you want facetious – the US agents within Wagner did it to incriminate Russia,

  8. In Vino 8
    7 October 2022 at 11:35 am

    And what is wrong with the horse's mouth??

    "ABC News @ABC – 9:59pm · 7 Feb 2022

    Pres. Biden: "If Russia invades…then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it."
    Reporter: "But how will you do that, exactly, since…the project is in Germany's control?"
    Biden: "I promise you, we will be able to do that."
    ab"

    • SPC 8.1
      7 October 2022 at 11:46 am

      Really.

      Germany ended Nordstrom on Feb 22

      BERLIN, Feb 22 (Reuters) – Germany on Tuesday halted the Nord Stream 2 Baltic Sea gas pipeline project, designed to double the flow of Russian gas direct to Germany, after Russia formally recognised two breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine.

      Europe's most divisive energy project, worth $11 billion, was finished in September, but has stood idle pending certification by Germany and the European Union.

      The pipeline had been set to ease the pressure on European consumers facing record energy prices amid a wider post-pandemic cost of living crisis, and on governments that have already forked out billions to try to cushion the impact on consumers.

      https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germanys-scholz-halts-nord-stream-2-certification-2022-02-22/

      “Nord Stream 2 was developed and is operated by Nord Stream 2 AG, a subsidiary of the Russian state energy company Gazprom. Nord Stream 2 AG filed for bankruptcy on 1 March 2022. Half the costs of Nordstrom Stream 2 was financed via a loan from Uniper, Wintershall Dea, OMV, Engie, and Royal Dutch Shell.”

  9. In Vino 9
    8 October 2022 at 7:24 pm

    Germany's moves could have been temporary. I suspect the pipeline explosions have made it pretty well permanent. A very different matter.

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