Daily review 17/07/2019

Written By: - Date published: 5:36 pm, July 17th, 2019 - 117 comments
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Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

117 comments on “Daily review 17/07/2019 ”

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  1. Pat 1
    17 July 2019 at 6:01 pm

    testing

  2. joe90 2
    17 July 2019 at 6:18 pm

    This is how it's done.

    The state of Berlin has bought back 670 apartments on the historic Karl-Marx-Allee from a private owner after decades of property privatisation in the German capital.

    A 1950s prestige project for socialist East Germany, the grand boulevard that stretches from the city centre to Friedrichshain in the east has been the frontline of a months-long fight over gentrification and rising property prices.

    The struggle erupted last November when the property management firm Predac announced its intention to offload 700 apartments on the road to Berlin’s largest property company, Deutsche Wohnen.

    Fearing rent increases, tenants organised protest marches and hung banners from their apartments, eventually pushing the city senate to block the sale.

    […]

    Berlin’s mayor said the move was indicative of a wider strategy to reacquire housing stock sold to private investors in the 1990s, following rapid rises in rental costs in the city in recent years.

    “Berliners should be able to continue to afford living in the city,” said Michael Müller. “That is why it was and continues to be our intention to buy up apartments wherever we can, so that Berlin can regain control of its property market.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/16/berlin-buys-670-flats-on-karl-marx-allee-from-private-owner

    • veutoviper 2.1
      17 July 2019 at 7:20 pm

      Thanks for that link and quotes, joe90. The whole housing issue in Germany is very, very different to that in NZ. Far more people in Germany rent their homes rather than own them, but renting is a very different experience/philosophy etc than in NZ. Renting is far more long term with tenants having to provide far more of the fittings and fixtures while above to make improvements, renovate etc with much greater freedoms. As I understand it rental prices have been much more stable until recently.

      Sabine has provided some very good information on this over recent months but don't have time to find links.

      A short mention of this buy-back with a different link was also posted by Scott GN at 7 on Open Mike today – https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-17-07-2019/#comment-1637692

  3. joe90 3
    17 July 2019 at 6:34 pm

    Who woulda thunk people marginalised simply because of their identity might let their identity form their politics.

    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1150948414466641921

    • Ad 3.1
      17 July 2019 at 9:02 pm

      He's dead right, and it applies most of all to the right's nationalist and identitarian groups that sustain Trump in power. Although the left are not immune.

  4. Muttonbird 4
    17 July 2019 at 7:02 pm

    How Hunter S. Thompson Would Cover Donald Trump

    (Thompson) followed Nixon from the late 1960s when he wrote in Pageant Magazine that Nixon/Trump was “…a foul caricature of himself, a man with no soul, no inner convictions, with the integrity of a hyena and the style of a poison toad… absolutely humorless; I couldn’t imagine him laughing at anything except maybe a paraplegic who wanted to vote Democratic but couldn’t quite reach the lever on the voting machine.” Ring any bells?

    https://lithub.com/how-hunter-s-thompson-would-cover-donald-trump/

  5. CHCoff 5
    17 July 2019 at 7:04 pm

    https://www.interest.co.nz/business/100754/deputy-prime-minister-winston-peters-highlights-benefits-nz-china-fta-bid-get-us

    'Peters acknowledged the US pulling out of what was originally the Trans-Pacific Partnership, saying before amendments were made to get the multilateral trade agreement to where it’s at now, “many of us in NZ had similar reservations”.

    “Although some were disappointed [by the US]… we understand and respect the right of your administration to make this decision,” Peters said, recognising President Donald Trump’s preference for bilateral agreements.'

    YEP

    • Ad 5.1
      17 July 2019 at 9:31 pm

      We trade with both China and the US, and while China's economy gradually "slows" to 6.2% GDP growth, the US economy rockets along.

      So far we haven't lost our principles in doing so.

  7. Morrissey 7
    17 July 2019 at 7:47 pm

    Sadly, New York's Democratic mayor, Mr Di Blasio, has failed to do anything about his murderous cops either.

  8. ankerawshark 8
    17 July 2019 at 7:53 pm

    Anyone else still struggling to accept the WC Cricket.???? If you are not struggling good on you, seriously.

    My beefs are

    1. We bowled England out, surely that should have been the end of the game. Gordon Campbell thinks so too. No need for super over etc.

    2. While I completely accept umpires make mistakes and that we have to accept that, shouldn't umpires in a world cup be completely au fait with the rules????? None of the three of them seemed to know the rules regarding the knock on on Stokes bat. This cost

    NZ a run and therefore the cup. Enquiry please as to why three umpires ignorant of rules.

    3. The deciding factor i.e. that number of boundaries scored is ludicrous, arbitrary and totally lacks any understanding of the game. Did they make this up after a few too many drinks??????

    I would have completely accepted a loss as I did in 2015, but actually can't accept this as anything but the BC's actually won.

    This is very bad for cricket in my humble opinion.

    • The Al1en 8.1
      17 July 2019 at 8:32 pm

      I loved it. Fantastic game. Brilliant result. Best team in the world won.

      Shame for NZ the super over rules were in force before the competition began, that runs win, lose or tie games not the amount of wickets lost, and there's ambiguity in the Stokes' extra runs rule as to whether it's from the throw or the moment it hits the bat.
      An alternative to boundaries scored would be to have done what they do in some other sports and sorted it through the head to head result in the round robin.

      As it is, you'll just have to learn to live with choking twice in the one game.

      • Muttonbird 8.1.1
        17 July 2019 at 9:10 pm

        I’m guessing the second run wasn't completed when he ball hit the bat so no ambiguity there. Perhaps ambiguity on the cross.

        The rest of your comment is typically uncharitable from a pom. 👎

        • The Al1en 8.1.1.1
          17 July 2019 at 9:21 pm

          The ambiguity to the rule is whether the batsmen cross before the throw or after it hit the bat, in which case, as the guy was diving full stretch for the crease coming back for the second run, it would obviously have been after they'd crossed, so six runs.

          Don't care about you calling me an uncharitable pom.

          Law 19.8 – overthrow or wilful act of fielder:

          If the boundary results from an overthrow or from the wilful act of a fielder, the runs scored shall be:

          any runs for penalties awarded to either side;
          the allowance for the boundary; and
          the runs completed by the batsmen, together with the run in progress if they had already crossed at the instant of the throw or act.
          There is some potential for ambiguity in the law, because “act” could be interpreted as the moment the ball deflected off Stokes’ bat.

          • Muttonbird 8.1.1.1.1
            17 July 2019 at 9:29 pm

            Ah well. As long as you feel good about England having won in that fashion.

            The other thing goes in my little notebook. 😁

            • The Al1en 8.1.1.1.1.1
              17 July 2019 at 9:33 pm

              I would have preferred a six off the final ball, but in football, I'd take extra time and penalty shoot out, or in rugby union a final minute drop goal, or in netball a final second basket, or a last gasp tiddle in the wink.

              Could have gone either way, so you gotta take the smooth with the rough once in a while… And let’s face it, there’s been plenty of rough.

          • ankerawshark 8.1.1.1.2
            17 July 2019 at 10:01 pm

            https://the12thman.in/watch-the-proof-that-shows-new-zealand-was-robbed-in-the-final/

            I am afraid The Allen I believe this and the umpire quoted more than what you say……………………..But I think the English will be rationalizing their win left right and centre right now. Which is kind of pathetic…………..

            I still think if one team is bowled out, the other still has wickets at hand and the runs are equal, that should end the game whatever the rules say. That imo is the most logical way to determine the winner.

            • The Al1en 8.1.1.1.2.1
              17 July 2019 at 10:06 pm

              Doesn't matter what you think, or me for that matter, the victory was in line with the rules all teams were familiar with and agreed to.

              Sadly, your hard done by feelings don't come into it.

              • ankerawshark …
                17 July 2019 at 10:20 pm

                But the rule weren't adhered to by the umpires who are there to carry out the rules………….

                A victory, but not much of one…….as I say their world cup "victory" will be always be tainted in the eyes of many. Both fans and people who know a lot more about cricket that you and I do.

                Anyway, I will stop feeling this way soon. But their will always be a shadow over Englands win.

                • The Al1en …
                  17 July 2019 at 10:23 pm

                  Tainted in the eyes of the losers, for sure, but it says England on the trophy and always will.

                  I know I'll always remember our first time with a smile on my dial. Would have preferred beating the Aussies or India though.

                  • ankerawshark …
                    17 July 2019 at 10:29 pm

                    Actually I have been reading on-line commentaries and there are huge numbers of people from India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka to name just some countries who are of my view point…………….that's just the fans…..

                    And actually we didn't lose the game…………England didn't win. They were awarded the cup as a result of the rules.

                    And yes I can understand that you are happy. Like your fellow countrymen, not much compassion for those of us who are understandably finding it difficult. Oh well………there you go.

                    • The Al1en …
                      17 July 2019 at 10:33 pm

                      Dress it how you like, it'll change nothing, but England won the world cup according to the tournament rules. Count back, by 160 runs or 9 wickets, the win is a win. NZ would have taken it at the start of play, no doubt about it.

                • Gabby …
                  18 July 2019 at 10:40 am

                  No point in whinging about it ankey. Won't change a thing, just annoys people.

          • Gabby 8.1.1.1.3
            18 July 2019 at 10:39 am

            Seriously? Ok then, at what point does a throw become an overthrow?

    • Muttonbird 8.2
      17 July 2019 at 9:04 pm

      This cost NZ a run and therefore the cup.

      It did cost a run but not necessarily the cup. There were still two deliveries to go.

      • ankerawshark 8.2.1
        17 July 2019 at 10:21 pm

        whether awarded 5 or 6 runs it couldn't influence what came next……………

        • The Al1en 8.2.1.1
          17 July 2019 at 10:25 pm

          Of course it could. An increased run rate would have been met with a more aggressive approach to the final two deliveries. Obviously.

        • Muttonbird 8.2.1.2
          17 July 2019 at 10:29 pm

          Well no but Rashid might have leg glanced for 4, or 1, then Stokes might have been more bold had they required 3 from 1.

          As it stands he choked, not being able to get 3 from 2 and win it properly…

    • mauī 8.3
      17 July 2019 at 9:10 pm

      It was a complicated, rarely used rule in the most important game of cricket for 4 years. Umpires make mistakes too, it's very unfair to put the reason for a loss on a single decision like that in my view.

      NZ's mistakes were more egregious, they wasted a review when Guptill was plumb infront meaning Taylor had no reviews left when he had a high lbw later on. Boult went to complete the catch on the boundary and stepped on the rope instead of stopping the six first and saving 4 or 5 runs.

      • ankerawshark 8.3.1
        17 July 2019 at 9:53 pm

        I expect all players to make mistakes and all players did…….I also expect umpires to as well. But it wasn't a mistake the umpires made it was incompetence. Three of them don't appear to know the rules. Did cost us the game.

        Maui. Whatever the mistakes at 50 overs both teams scored the same……….But England bowled out………….

        England didn't win the game nor did NZ lose the game. England were awarded the cup.

        T Allen would believe the take that the international umpire (whose name escapes me) made rather than yours. No one in the ICC has dispute what said international umpire said.

        • The Al1en 8.3.1.1
          17 July 2019 at 10:02 pm

          It doesn't matter England were bowled out, it's the number of runs that count. Always has. The scores were tied, so super over. According to the rules of the competition, in a tie, it's a count back to boundaries scored. You lost fair and square. That is an indisputable fact.

          Besides that, during the tournament, England beat Australia, India and NZ… Twice. Best team won.

          • mpledger 8.3.1.1.1
            17 July 2019 at 11:28 pm

            It seems odd that if all your batsmen are out that they get a second chance to bat. There should never have been a super over because there was noone left in the English team to bat.

            The rules are the rules and so the English won the cup. That's the way the cookie crumbles in sport.

            But I think it is reasonable to say that the rules were unfair and that they should be changed. The rules should be a priori fair to the best of our ability.

            • The Al1en 8.3.1.1.1.1
              17 July 2019 at 11:32 pm

              Take it up with the ICC, though the rules of super overs are pretty clear in that each team starts afresh with three nominated batsmen and one bowler.

            • Muttonbird 8.3.1.1.1.2
              17 July 2019 at 11:41 pm

              That will be the test. If they do change the rules it will be an admission that this wasn't a legitimate result.

              • The Al1en …
                17 July 2019 at 11:45 pm

                And you can take some comfort in that as you wipe the dribbles of snot from your nose and salty tears from your eyes with your Purex man sized tissues 😆

                • Muttonbird …
                  17 July 2019 at 11:54 pm

                  These things have ceased to trouble me too much in recent years, so I have not shed a tear figuratively or otherwise.

                  A braying Englishman however…

                  • The Al1en …
                    18 July 2019 at 12:00 am

                    Braying, just having a laugh, whatever.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      18 July 2019 at 12:17 am

                      Empire complex. It's pretty hard to shake.

                    • The Al1en …
                      18 July 2019 at 12:20 am

                      You should try harder to get over it.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      18 July 2019 at 12:33 am

                      Empire complex runs through most English people I've met, and it's on the increase with the hard swing to the right in Britain.

                      You've got it in spades.

                    • The Al1en …
                      18 July 2019 at 12:42 am

                      Ha, you're on one all right. I've said nothing about empire at all, or even once alluded to it or the notion of superiority, other than to say the best team won the cricket.

                      Look, you don't have to have an inferiority complex with me. I'm just a working class man from nothing who moved here and now has next to nothing, apart for a sharp mind, quick wit and an ability to draw out shit from arseholes on the internet.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      18 July 2019 at 12:51 am

                      Is ankerawshark an arsehole?

                      Was your intention to 'draw shit' from him?

                      Grow up, old bean, your radar is broken.

                    • The Al1en …
                      18 July 2019 at 12:55 am

                      I'm going to bed. Give you time to stock up on the triple ply. 😆

                  • OnceWasTim …
                    18 July 2019 at 9:20 am

                    🙂

                    If it's not one damn Empire, it's another ….. a bit like history ("If it's not one damn thing it's another")

                    Unfortunately 'lil 'ole NuZull is still not ready to give them the two finger salute at times

    • CHCoff 8.4
      17 July 2019 at 10:05 pm

      It would be hard to win any more as the 'losing' team as the NZ Black Caps did taking everything into account, in an international showpiece world cup final.

      In many ways they hit it out of the park. Congratulations to England also.

  9. Muttonbird 9
    17 July 2019 at 8:53 pm

    Oh look. John Key's ANZ has been downgraded because of poor management. I though he was supposed to be a superstar in business!

    Australia's ANZ Bank has taken another hit, with the international credit rating agency Fitch downgrading the bank's operations in both Australia and New Zealand from a 'stable' to a 'negative' outlook, citing "material shortcomings in operational risk management, which were not aligned with the assessment Fitch had previously incorporated into its ratings".

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12250454

    • Anne 9.1
      17 July 2019 at 8:57 pm

      Chickens coming home to roost big time. laugh

    • ankerawshark 9.2
      17 July 2019 at 10:04 pm

      Thanks Muttonbird. That cheers me up.

      One thing for sure though, The Black Caps are the best guys, best sports (think Roy arguing with the ref, Stokes brawling outside a bar)…………and the winners of everyone's hearts. Englands win will ALWAYS be tainted.

      • The Al1en 9.2.1
        17 July 2019 at 10:13 pm

        Although Kaine didn't walk for a caught behind for the second game running, so maybe not the best example of sportsmanship.

        • Muttonbird 9.2.1.1
          17 July 2019 at 10:32 pm

          Well it's not beating someone unconscious outside a pub sort of sportsmanship! I know which one I'd take.

          • The Al1en 9.2.1.1.1
            17 July 2019 at 10:38 pm

            The knobs he smacked who were abusing the gay couple? Won him more fans than he lost, I reckon.

            If punching a nazi is okay, it is for dealing to homophobes, too.

            • Muttonbird 9.2.1.1.1.1
              17 July 2019 at 10:40 pm

              I think there's some, how did you put it, ambiguity about that.

              I think he's just a bit fighty.

              • The Al1en …
                17 July 2019 at 10:41 pm

                Certainly showed some Dunkirk spirit, that's for sure.

                • Muttonbird …
                  17 July 2019 at 10:45 pm

                  Oh right. Now we're onto the, 'you'd all be speaking German now if it wasn't for us!' 😂

                  • The Al1en …
                    17 July 2019 at 10:48 pm

                    You said he was ‘fighty’, and I agreed. Great rearguard action in the face of adversity. National treasure now. They'll call it the Stokes effect for sure. 😆

                    • Muttonbird …
                      17 July 2019 at 10:51 pm

                      Well, it is just a game. He needs to learn to turn it off in public.

                      Born in Christchurch so that explains a lot!

                    • The Al1en …
                      17 July 2019 at 10:57 pm

                      Although as we learnt on here following mayor Len and his affair, apparently what goes on outside work doesn't affect or influence one's ability to do their day job.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      17 July 2019 at 11:24 pm

                      Bizarre equivalence. Drunk, Stokes smashed someones face in and was suspended by his employer for some time. So it did affect his ability to do his job.

                      Then this:

                      Shortly after being arrested in September 2017, a video emerged which showed Stokes mimicking Katie Price's disabled son.

                      In September 2018, Stokes was charged with bringing the game into disrepute by the ECB. The charge related to the incident in Bristol and social media posts. In December 2018, the Cricket Disciplinary Commission, which is independent from the ECB, announced that Stokes would be fined £30,000

                      Yeah, what a hero!

                    • The Al1en …
                      17 July 2019 at 11:30 pm

                      I don't want to marry him or anything, so drag up his past all you like, forget his apologies, and hang him at dawn for all I care.

                      Won't stop him being a world champion cricketer.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      17 July 2019 at 11:39 pm

                      And a Kiwi at that.

                    • The Al1en …
                      17 July 2019 at 11:43 pm

                      With Maori ancestry

                    • Muttonbird …
                      17 July 2019 at 11:58 pm

                      Hope you are not intimating that's where his violent behaviour comes from.

                      Mind you, nothing would surprise me tonight.

                    • The Al1en …
                      18 July 2019 at 12:04 am

                      Again, you said he was a kiwi, and I said, yeah, and with Maori ancestry.

                      There's nothing in that apart from what you appear to be wanting to add to it. A bit low, though, playing the race card because NZ lost a game of cricket. Or are you just throwing out some shit in the hope some of it will stick?

                      Anyway, as you'll know, Stokes was acquitted at trial, so not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      18 July 2019 at 12:09 am

                      I'm at a loss. Why then did you mention he was Maori?

                      Also, I think you'll find the game was tied. The cup was awarded to England because they scored more of their runs in boundaries.

                      Stokes is a bad egg. Being a world champion cricketer doesn’t change that.

                    • The Al1en …
                      18 July 2019 at 12:16 am

                      Won't stop him being a world champion cricketer.

                      And a Kiwi at that.

                      With Maori ancestry

                      That's the order the conversation stream went. Why wouldn't I add to your statement he's a kiwi with further information about it? It’s not a secret.

                      Pretty poor attempt on your behalf to lay a race charge at my door. Knowing that I clearly haven't intended anything of the sort you've alluded to, I will accept your apology and say no more about it.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      18 July 2019 at 12:24 am

                      Righto. That's a pretty thin explanation you'll admit.

                      I don't 'clearly' know anything about what you were thinking. To be honest, your comments tonight are a departure from what I'd come to expect from you (defending thugs and gloating at unhappy fans) so who knows what was on your mind.

                      There will be no apology.

                    • The Al1en …
                      18 July 2019 at 12:31 am

                      It's not an explanation, it's a repeat of the timeline of events of what happened and what was said, and of course there won't be an apology, you think your work is done. Slyly throw a racist smear at me here, question my left wing leanings over there, say I support thugs even though many good sorts on here have argued the case for punching nazis and haters.

                      Not even close. You'll have to work a lot harder than that to settle your old scores. 🙄

                    • Muttonbird …
                      18 July 2019 at 12:38 am

                      Just havin' a laugh, whatever.

        • ankerawshark 9.2.1.2
          17 July 2019 at 10:39 pm

          Kane actually is the best example of sportsmanship. I doubt you will find anyone who disputes that. But clearly you have no answer to what I have said about Stokes and Roy…………….

          Anyway, I came on line about this as I said I was struggling and I thought it was unfair. All you have wanted to do is rub the awarding of the cup to England in my face. Unkind and uncompassionate. It's obvious that how the end of the game was dealt with leaves questions about the rules and the umpires not knowing the rules leaves questions too.

          If it had of been a clear victory to England I would have wished them well as I did to Australia when they won in 2015.

          • Muttonbird 9.2.1.2.1
            17 July 2019 at 10:44 pm

            Yeah. The Alien hasn't covered himself with glory here and it was his response to your admission that annoyed me.

            Zero compassion and it makes me wonder if he's a leftie at all!

            The fervour with which he's gloating betrays an inadequacy somewhere.

          • The Al1en 9.2.1.2.2
            17 July 2019 at 10:45 pm

            I deliberately didn't come on here the morning of the victory and rub anyone's nose in it, and I wouldn't have said a word about the game if you hadn't have posted about the unfairness of it all.

            I was pretty classy, I reckon, for one failing Tebbit's cricket test with so much ease.

      • Muttonbird 9.2.2
        17 July 2019 at 10:14 pm

        Oh yes. Definitely an asterisk next to that win for ever.

        The win can't even be described in normal cricketing terms; by x runs or by x wickets. Even Cricinfo doesn’t mark the result as a win for England.

        England won by more boundaries? Why does it matter how many runs were scored through boundaries?

        • ankerawshark 9.2.2.1
          17 July 2019 at 10:31 pm

          Actually I have been reading on-line commentaries and there are huge numbers of people from India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka to name just some countries who are of my view point…………….that's just the fans…..

          And actually we didn't lose the game…………England didn't win. They were awarded the cup as a result of the rules.

          And yes I can understand that you are happy. Like your fellow countrymen, not much compassion for those of us who are understandably finding it difficult. Oh well………there you go.

          • Muttonbird 9.2.2.1.1
            17 July 2019 at 10:36 pm

            They were awarded the cup as a result of the rules.

            That's a good way to look at it. A Claytons win. They had to give it to someone – it might as well be the team the umpires helped up to the finish line.

            • CHCoff 9.2.2.1.1.1
              18 July 2019 at 2:10 pm

              Also the last ball of our innings, our tall Black Cap batsman had to duck under a bodyline bouncer, couldn't that easily have been a no ball also?

              The list goes on lol

        • ankerawshark 9.2.2.2
          17 July 2019 at 10:32 pm

          Agree 100* Muttonbird…………

  12. Incognito 12
    17 July 2019 at 9:55 pm

    I admire Julie Anne Genter but my admiration has gone up a notch because of her gutsy move to go on the Facebook pages of National MPs to correct the deliberate misinformation around the Government proposal to introduce a Clean Car Discount from 2021.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/114245123/govt-wades-deep-in-nats-territory-to-defend-evs-policy-takes-explaining-is-losing-to-new-level

    The ‘neutral’ MSM frames it as “defensive”, thoughtless, “incredibly thin-skinned”, “hyper defensiveness”, “out of touch with voters”, “Genter's social media crusade” and other subtle ways to paint a (negative) picture of the Government handling of the proposed scheme and to suggest a lack of confidence that the scheme will stand on its own merits.

    There are hints that they know full well who is on the right side of the facts:

    This has left Associate Transport Minister Julie Anne Genter seemingly with no other choice but to stoically dive deep into the heart of Opposition online territory as the last bastion of defence against misplaced skepticism of Government policy.

    …

    The EV policy has plenty of positive messages which sit behind it. [my emphasis]

    Shame though that none of those positive messages were mentioned in the article except for the screenshot of JAG’s excellent comments on those Facebook pages.

    Good on her, I say.

    The consultation document can be found at https://transport.cwp.govt.nz/clean-cars/ .

    Submissions close on 20 August 2019.

    • Anne 12.1
      17 July 2019 at 10:33 pm

      And Phil Twyford was in the Herald correcting the misinformation over the Govt's Transport proposals.

      They've been letting the Nats get away with distortions and downright lies for a long time now, so I hope this is a sign they are fighting back.

      • Incognito 12.1.1
        17 July 2019 at 10:56 pm

        The PR department needs to work a lot harder on setting the narrative IMO.

      • Gabby 12.1.2
        18 July 2019 at 10:52 am

        Laziness or timidity?

        • Anne 12.1.2.1
          18 July 2019 at 11:42 am

          Lack of crafty communication resources among other things. Check out mickey's latest post "Sometimes explaining is not losing". Some good comments.

    • The Chairman 12.2
      17 July 2019 at 10:56 pm

      A modern day politician.

      yes

      If the media did a better job of calling National's lies out, she wouldn't have to correct the deliberate misinformation.

      • Incognito 12.2.1
        17 July 2019 at 11:05 pm

        True, but maybe she’s enjoying it too; I would.

        • The Al1en 12.2.1.1
          17 July 2019 at 11:10 pm

          Fake news on faceachebook, who'd of thunk it?

          Good for her heading it off at the source. The left parties should make a habit of it in the run up to 2020. Be the headline with their own message. not the subject of someone else.

    • Psycho Milt 12.3
      17 July 2019 at 11:15 pm

      Nat supporters are very fond of saying "explaining is losing," while never mentioning its corollary: "lying is winning." I guess they wouldn't.

      • The Chairman 12.3.1
        17 July 2019 at 11:30 pm

        Their lying is assisted by the media. Instead of calling them out, they make headlines of them.

  13. Wayne 13
    18 July 2019 at 7:22 am

    I read Julie Anne Genter's comments on Stuff. I think it is a mistake for a Minister to engage on another party's facebook page. Interesting concept though. Very different to me commenting on The Standard. I am a private citizen, just doing my thing for the interest of it.

    I think the big issue on the EV policy will be the $3,000 impost on tradies and rural contractors utes. Though I expect that Winston Peters will fix that by having an exemption if they are primarily used in business. After that there will be no issues with the policy.

    • Incognito 13.1
      18 July 2019 at 7:55 am

      Why do you think it is a mistake?

      Why do you assume that all utes will have the maximum possible fee under the current proposal?

      Tradies and contractors buy their utes on the business, don’t they?

      They can still choose to buy a relatively new second-hand import with a max. fee of $1,500.

      I reckon the proposal leaves a lot of flexibility to the consumers, don’t you agree?

    • tc 13.2
      18 July 2019 at 8:12 am

      And off Wayne goes, yes or no to this Mr private citizen.

      Do you condone these wilful misrepresentions made by MP's ? Yes or no ?

    • Gabby 13.3
      18 July 2019 at 11:43 am

      Sounds n smells like bullshit waynee.

  14. Wayne 14
    18 July 2019 at 8:03 am

    Not sure the Ford Ranger, or VW Ute (the two favoured models on the Shore) are really second hand import vehicles.

    Anyway the tradies I know won’t like the govt dictating their vehicle choice. I know that statement is not literally true, but you get the point. They will expect Winston to moderate the policy, at least for vehicles that have a work use. Those who buy new Rangers to tow big boats could be expected to pay.

    • tc 14.1
      18 July 2019 at 8:17 am

      Gonna answer my question. I'm intrigued as a lawyer what you think as these are taxpayer funded roles.

    • mauī 14.2
      18 July 2019 at 8:30 am

      Tend to agree.. the Ford "Monster Truck" is a necessity on the Shore. The rough unsealed 4WD forestry roads there are impossible to navigate without such a vehicle.

    • Psycho Milt 14.3
      18 July 2019 at 8:33 am

      I know that statement is not literally true, but you get the point.

      I do. And fuck 'em. Any costs they incur get recovered from their customers, so why should anyone listen to their whingeing?

      • dv 14.3.1
        18 July 2019 at 8:51 am

        AND PM a 3k$ cost ove 5 years lifeish of vehicle is in the order $12 per week!!!

        (Imagine the whine when fuel goes up 10c litre)

      • Wayne 14.3.2
        18 July 2019 at 9:11 am

        And your attitude shows why tradies and rural contractors will be looking to Winston Peters rather than the Greens for the fix.

        Your attitude is typical of those in gold plated public service jobs who have zero understanding of the challenges facing small businesses. $3,000 is not an irrelevantly small amount of money for them.

        • Andre 14.3.2.1
          18 July 2019 at 9:27 am

          It's difficult not to conclude $3000 is an irrelevantly small sum when they go for the top of the line Wildtrak and then further tart it up with stuff that actually reduces functionality like 20" wheels and a big chrome rollbar.

        • OnceWasTim 14.3.2.2
          18 July 2019 at 9:34 am

          "Your attitude is typical of those in gold plated public service jobs who have zero understanding of the challenges facing small businesses"

          I must remember to write that down in my little black book for the next time the gNats are in power and you/your colleagues decide to create another bugger's muddle like MoBIE and stuff it full of short term thinkers

          • I feel love 14.3.2.2.1
            18 July 2019 at 10:11 am

            Hasn't Dr Wayne spent his life working in gold plated public service jobs?

            Also, maybe to old guys like him is MPs commenting on social media not a good look, but to anyone under 40 (I'm 45 so maybe anyone under 50?) commenting on social media is a pretty acceptable thing to do.

            • OnceWasTim 14.3.2.2.1.1
              18 July 2019 at 11:27 am

              I couldn't possibly comment @ I feel love. I'm hanging out for the Gold Card in the not too distant, but @Wayne's conservatism and ideologically driven comments never seem to amaze me. He kind of reminds me of all those old radio dramas at times (like Doctor! Paul), alongside a few britiss comedy sketches. What a silly silly SILLY old duffer old boy.

              You can't describe him as a ponce because that implies those 'He's a gay' connotations. Having read him on all those social media platforms as well as his spray and walk away contributions on here, the best I can come up with is that he's a self-entitled ToryBoy with a supercilious attitude aattached.

              I'm sure he's a nice guy and I live in hope. Maybe he's just a 'late developer'.

              Meantime I hope 'Mother' – (aka woify), makes him a nice cuppa tea and alerts him to the next media gig he's called on to do.
              Edit, btw – he has his rivals – half of them are in that public service with gold-plated benefits he now seems so willing to criticise – even some heading academia (which maybe how he came – nahhhh too cruel)

        • dv 14.3.2.3
          18 July 2019 at 9:43 am

          ABOUT $10 pw over a 5 year life of the vehicle.!!!!!

        • Psycho Milt 14.3.2.4
          18 July 2019 at 9:55 am

          And your attitude shows why tradies and rural contractors will be looking to Winston Peters rather than the Greens for the fix.

          And here it is again: pay lip service to reducing greenhouse gas emissions and reducing environmental damage, while firmly resisting any attempt to actually reduce them. The only people who would describe hobbling environmental policies as "fixing" them are those who believe AGW isn't happening. It would be nice if right-wingers would at least be honest about that when commenting on the subject.

    • Incognito 14.4
      18 July 2019 at 2:07 pm

      I get the point, which is that when you frame it like that, it evokes a different (emotive) reaction.

      I’m still not clear why you think it is a “mistake” to engage on FB. How is this different from engaging on Twitter, for example?

      It seems to me that JAG is correcting the misinformation spread around with the correct info and facts. She is not engaging in debate or discussion, as far as I can tell.

      After Stacey Kirk’s deplorable piece, it feels like a kneejerk reaction to me. Can National not handle facts?

  15. Pat 15
    18 July 2019 at 9:33 am

    This has nothing to do with economics and everything to do with ideology and demonstrates why politicians are so disdained….sadly logic will make no difference to attitudes so I suspect JAG is wasting her time and Waynes bogus argument will continue to echoed by those so inclined.

    Trump although extreme is not unique