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Daily review 24/09/2020

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, September 24th, 2020 - 68 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

68 comments on “Daily review 24/09/2020 ”

  1. observer 1

    Sometimes I get frustrated that Labour/Ardern don't fire more shots at National/Collins, but then I turn on the 6 pm news and I watch Collins shooting herself. Letting her do this is still Labour's best move.

    Sneer, smirk, snarl … and watch the votes slipping away.

    It's always a good pick-me-up at the end of the day, a cuppa and an eye roll.

  2. JohnSelway 2

    This is going to sound weird coming from a leftie (but I’m not tribal left) but I am thinking I might vote for ACT. Here’s my reasoning… 1) I want Labour to face opposition. I view MMP as giving people the strategic ability to not just vote for they want to have as the PM but also to decide what opposition to face. I can’t stand the current state of National. 2) David Seymour, despite looking like an idiot has actually, in opposition, got a few things done, unlike National. 3) There are policies I think where Labour and ACT could actually find common ground. Euthanasia, drug reform, abortion etc so will be in a position to support some of labour’s policies but not enough power for them to enact the policies I don’t support (which is a majority of their economic policies.

    So yeah – those are my thoughts. I want vote strategically. And look before the the ad Homs, abuse, claims I’m not a lefty or that I’m an idiot or betraying left wing values let me say I want Ardern and Labour to hold all the cards but I also want there to be effective opposition. And I don’t want National involved.

    So those are my thoughts. If you just want to level abuse then I am not interested but if you want to discuss this rationally I am all ears

    • Nordy 2.1

      Thanks JS for posing an interesting and genuine question. I'm not sure I can offer such a benign view of ACT and all that it stands for.

      I do agree that the liberterian view on personal freedom does at time intersect with left values, but DS in particular is such a 'smug' individual that thinking about all those tax payer $ supporting him and his friends is I think a step too far.

    • Andre 2.2

      I felt that way in 2002, but I'm not feeling it this time around.

      In '02, it seemed like ACT actually was a party with a coherent philosophy of what it wanted to achieve, and actual philosophical grounding for where it opposed the government. This time around, it seems like whatever the cat dragged in is good enough to make it onto the list, so they end up with a gun nut at #3 plus a bunch of other cling-ons. So Seymour looks likely to go the way of the hairdo from Ohariu when he got a bunch of his cling-ons in off his coat-tails: nowhere useful.

      • observer 2.2.1

        Yep. As a general rule, I'd say "Don't vote for people who aren't expecting – or even wanting – to be there". List-fillers make very bad MPs.

        In 2002 United Future's sudden surge brought in a candidate who wasn't even a citizen (so she had to quit).

    • observer 2.3

      No abuse, but 2 points:

      1) We only get one vote (party). So the luxury of voting for an opposition to a government depends on others voting for that government. Big gamble, not one I'd recommend. (I mean, I guess I might do it if we had a 70% party, but we'll be nowhere near that).

      2) More importantly … please study the party lists carefully. Even if you like – or at least accept – David Seymour, then you don't get him multiplied, you get the add-ons. They will be who you are really voting for. Make sure you want them.

      (This always happens with people saying "I'm voting for Winston". Then they are shocked to discover they elected Richard Prosser or some other dangerous fruit loop).

    • Robert Guyton 2.4

      It surely does sound weird, JohnSelway and your proposal to vote ACT relies upon your belief that TeamSeymour would be a good Opposition. Have you explored the line-up on offer from the ACT Party? Is there something or someone in that line-up that indicates capability to you? Enough experience to effectively do the job of Opposition? Seem to me to be rank amateurs and judging by the ACT party's history and ideals, likely to be pretty wonky folk smiley

    • Macro 2.5

      And people in the States in 2016 voted for Trump for similar reasons – and look how that turned out.

    • anker 2.6

      Of course your vote is your own John S. I am not sure why you have put it on the Standard that you are a leftie but might vote Act, so I am assuming you want others opinions on this. Forgive me if my assumption is incorrect.

      I personally couldn't vote for a party that's policies I find repugnant. Seymour is the one MP who voted against the gun law changes. Who wants to slash benefits cut govt spending. But if those policies sit o.k. with you, by all means you are entitled to give ACT your vote. But maybe you support these policies?

      I can understand a left wing person voting Green with the view that they want an opposition to hold Labour to account. This would be a good option. And Greens need your vote more than ACT. And Greens are a left wing party so more likely reflect your left wing sentiments.

      Acts deal in Epsom guarantees them a seat and this playing the system even if its legal is another thing that turns me off ACT.

      I want Labour to govern alone, so they can just get on and do it. After Covid I completely trust them to make good decisions for the country. I think Jacinda has shown outstanding leadership and her team Parker, Robertson, Woods, Hipkins, Faafoi to name a few, have served us well.

      • JohnSelway 2.6.1

        Yes – I wanted to see what other people thought. And I agree – many of ACT's policies I do not support but I feel on issues where Labour and ACT agree (which are few I admit) they could work together. And I don't think ACT will get the numbers to really put forward and achieve what I don't agree with.

        Basically I would rather a few ACT MP's rather than more National. It is a strategic vote for me, rather than a vote for who I prefer to win and more who they will be up against in Parliament. I would rather it 5 ACT mp's than 20 National.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 2.6.1.1

          "I would rather it 5 ACT mp's than 20 National." Fair enough JS, but those aren't your only options. Lefties such as youself can also cast their party vote for a left-of-centre party such as Labour or the Greens. A genuine lefty deliberately gifting their party vote to ACT is like the Greens gifting their parliamentary Question Time allocation to National/ACT – an odd move, difficult to fathom.

    • Incognito 2.7

      Aren’t you taking the duality of Parliament a little too far when you seem to imply that the Government is as good as the Opposition?

      I reckon you should vote for a strong coalition government in the first place and one that best aligns with your personal core values and aspirations for the future for yourself and for the people.

      Try to influence things that you can influence directly rather than through some intermediate. In other words, keep it as simple as possible, but no simpler.

      • JohnSelway 2.7.1

        No I don't think the government is as good as the opposition. But I want an opposition to be able to find areas of common ground (such as drug reform and abortion) rather than a party, like National, that define themselves as "we are the opposite of Labour".

        I hope I am making myself clear but understand I might not be.

        I am enjoying the sharing of ideas however rather than hostility.

        • Incognito 2.7.1.1

          I am enjoying the sharing of ideas however rather than hostility.

          Yes, very refreshing change 🙂

        • PaddyOT 2.7.1.2

          How does voting for the opposition on the Right, in order to hold to account your desired party on the Left, actually work in producing real outcomes ?

          When the Opposition does not hold the numbers to vote down or even change the left's Bill at each reading , we just have an expensive exercise paying out thousands of dollars to run Parliament just to let Seymour have time to express his fuckwittery. (Using my rights here according to Seymour's definition of freedom of speech in my opinion of him as a fuckwit ) and playing by ACT's own theory…

          In 2011, ACT accused Labour of wasting $435000 every hour? Labour holding the opposition to account supposedly, but to zilch effect as ACT's Volunteer Student Membership Bill passed anyway.

          http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5097079/Labour-filibustering-costs-453-000-hr-ACT

          Casting your vote to two opposing party's ideologies.. not sure how that keeps the Government straight. It would have to work on the assumption that ACT policy represents common good, honesty and sanity.

          The shifting with the wind, Slimy Seymour in June, … Labour a disaster, should have closed the border in January as ACT pushed for. Today, his assness enjoying freedom, skydives as his campaign tactic and says open the border for tourists. This is right at the time that Covid is resurging in those same high value tourists' countries of origin.

          https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/23/is-europe-having-a-covid-19-second-wave-country-by-country-breakdown

          Chris Baillie, ACT Party's candidate for Nelson, “a teacher best known in Nelson circles for leading a ‘Climate Hysteria Skeptics’ group at his school. Baillie, ( set to come into parliament on Seymour's coat tail) says ACT was “the party of common sense”. ???? Baillie responded to criticism over his views on climate change, saying rational discussion of the issue was being clouded by a wave of hysteria. By inference everybody except ACT is hysterical and irrational !

          Seymour has his eye on those Southern pristine landscapes for minerals though, so needs a climate denier – Baillie .

          https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122761558/election-2020-act-wants-to-unwind-the-governments-climate-and-energy-efforts.

          Seems ACT's slogan of " Change your Future " means 'fuck the RMA, fuck stewardship, fuck CC.'

          In another example of polar opposites, Labour reiterates today its intentions to toughen up ' hate speech' laws.

          Today, Seymour who thinks it was just a bit of fun when near Waitangi day he publishes his slogan MAGA- Make Aoteroa Great Again , is now cynically scaremongering with his prophecy of the demise of our freedoms under Labour.

          " This is a deeply concerning development that will undermine our fundamental right to freedom of expression….ACT will continue to defend the critical principle that nobody should ever be punished on the basis of opinion."

          https://www.act.org.nz/hate_speech_laws_divisive_and_dangerous

          Imagine speaking time in Parliament with Seymour's version of free speech. ? We want just the right type of immigrants…

          I think printing down a big TV size poster of Seymour and taping it to the wall right where you make your breakfast for 3 weeks will help decide a vote for ACTZ as that's what we'd all have to look at for 3 more years.

    • Frankly, I think you should party vote Green – first to secure a coalition with Labour and to drag Labour left. Then your party vote may do some good.

      A party vote for Act??? No way.

      • JohnSelway 2.8.1

        There are reasons I have that make me not want to vote Greens but I'd rather not have that be the focus of this conversation. Perhaps another thread another day.

    • Stuart Munro 2.9

      I have some sympathy with libertarian sentiments, as a part of the parliamentary discourse – at least in principle, because it rarely rises that high.

      I'm not sure ACT reaches that standard unfortunately. Libertarianism has points to make across the political spectrum, but ACT have chosen to be the Advocacy for Corporate Tax-evaders more often than defenders of individual right.

      I wouldn't dream of telling you how to vote except to hope that it brings you, and the rest of NZ citizens joy. For me Seymour does not, and I'm hoping Marie Kondo has a way to be rid of him. But he's not the worst on offer – that might be Billy TK and Trumpetistas – great gods and little fishes help us.

      • JohnSelway 2.9.1

        " but ACT have chosen to be the Advocacy for Corporate Tax-evaders more often than defenders of individual right. "

        I agree which is why I want ACT to have a voice but not the ability to make law on their own

        • McFlock 2.9.1.1

          Frankly, I'd prefer it if tax evaders didn't have a voice in parliament.

          • JohnSelway 2.9.1.1.1

            Come election day my decision may very well have changed. But I did want to float this idea and my reasoning for discussion because when I found my view changing I was interested to hear other thoughts. However I could very easily find myself with 2 ticks labour

    • Gabby 2.10

      If enough ppl think your way, that could work out pretty good for the Coq.

    • Treetop 2.11

      Seymour has got exposure with a private members bill. I wrote to a Labour MP early in the month who I thought would be the right person to do a private members bill, I have not recieved a reply.

    • Muttonbird 2.12

      Is this some sort of joke?

      'I'm a lefty but I'm going to vote ACT because Labour are too good.'

      Seriously.

  3. JanM 3

    Gosh – that's raising strategic voting to an art form! lol

  4. Pat 4

    "The Government has passed a law that puts agricultural emissions into the ETS in 2025 if another pricing mechanism is not worked out beforehand, or at 2022 if the Government of the day decides not enough progress has been made on the alternative pricing mechanism.

    National would scrap that 2022 review.

    It would also make seven changes to the Zero Carbon Act, the wide-ranging climate target law it supported the passage of."

    Climate change?…what climate change?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122873541/election-2020-national-promises-farmers-return-of-foreign-workers-and-a-rollback-of-regulations-on-water-and-climate

  5. Grafton Gully 5

    I bullied and was bullied and I saw it and the anger and hatred remain and Judith Collins going public and gloating her bullying can trigger it in me but I have a calmness now that protects me. For my brothers and sisters out there who know about this KIA KAHA she and her kind will bend in the end towards the peace we all crave – in our own ways.

  6. ianmac 6

    Most farmers are reasonable pragmatic people. Many have fitted in with the Water improvement goals. So what do they think of the Judith wrecking ball who wants to paint farmers as a miserable bunch of bullied pathetic people who think in 1950s terms?

    Wish we could talk to the progressive innovative ones.

  7. mauī 7

    I'm calling bullshit on Todd Muller's mental health issues. He's been an MP for 6 years – so knows the pressures of politics and he was high up in Fonterra so familiar with leadership too.

    On 27 May, 5 days into being selected as leader, most of which was a honeymoon period announcing his party list, and only after his first couple of media interviews he says he starts having health issues. I cannot see it.

    • observer 7.1

      I thought it was a credible and insightful account of his experience.

      Sure, it's an election campaign, so we can be suspicious, but there's no real gain for him or National here to be reminded of his leadership (except that his party was polling better then than now).

      Party leader is far more stressful than minor MP or manager.

      • anker 7.1.1

        I agree Observer. Most likely Mullers mental health issues were real. He looked like a possum in the headlights as time progressed when he was leader. So panic attacks, social anxiety credible to me.

        I think what strikes me is that he had so little self awareness to propel himself into the top job, when he was so ill equipped for it. Poor judgement at best. Arrogance at worst

        • Incognito 7.1.1.1

          I think what strikes me is that he had so little self awareness to propel himself into the top job, when he was so ill equipped for it.

          The Peter Principle meets the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

      • mauī 7.1.2

        Anyone can write an account of what it's like with mental health issues. I would be more convinced if I saw/heard an interview with him.

        His departure had to be explained at some point and this clears the air for voters who wondered what happened to him a couple of weeks out from voting.

        The other thing is would anyone trust National not to use mental health for political advantage. Remember.. it was just two months ago that the head of the Mental Health Foundation said this about them,

        "Both Falloon and Collins released statements pointing almost exclusively to his state of mental wellbeing. MHF says that was wrong.

        "Initially, no, I don't think that was a very appropriate use of mental health," MHF chief executive Shaun Robinson says."

        https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/andrew-falloon-using-mental-health-during-resignation-not-acceptable-mental-health-foundation.html

        • McFlock 7.1.2.1

          They literally announced that the party leader wasn't fronting to media because he needed a lie down.

          I don't think they were playing the long game, there. And for what – to go through a sham vote and elect Collins?

      • Incognito 7.1.3

        Party leader is far more stressful than minor MP or manager.

        So true, when that Party is a gang of fearful conniving back-stabbers, some of who are the Godparents of DP.

    • Pat 7.2

      Its an (unfortunate) example of how anyone is only a moment away from success (or coping) to failure (not)

    • Robert Guyton 7.3

      Ever experienced a panic attack?

      They sneak up on you and they're not a picnic in the park.

      Todd Muller's description rang entirely true to me.

    • RedLogix 7.4

      I've had a small number of panic attacks in my life. They have each been triggered when I pushed something I thought I could do a bit too far.

      In hindsight it was always my subconscious forcing me to listen.

      In that light I found Todd's account perfectly authentic.

    • Ad 7.5

      Well, since you're calling crisis on someone's mental health confession in the middle of Mental Health Awareness Week,

      https://www.mentalhealth.org.nz/home/our-work/category/16/mental-health-awareness-week

      it's worth reminding that the theme this year is "Reimagine Wellbeing Together – He Tirohanga Anamata". His story is pretty much the brave and hard choice of reimagining yourself away from that which is damaging you and toward a new life.

      Maui, for your sake I sure hope no one treats any breakdown or crisis you have, like the way you are treating Todd Muller.

    • Treetop 7.6

      Have you ever had panic attacks?

      They can be debilitating and they are not just anxiety. Public speaking as the leader could trigger them. I saw Muller go tense and have brain block. I am no expert but I suffered the entire 1980s due to a CIB incident in February 1979 which triggered them. Panic attacks can be the result of a phobia e.g. public speaking, seeing a clown, heights, in closed space.

      Muller does not owe anyone an explanation where his mental health is concerned.

    • Patricia Bremner 7.7

      Todd had not experienced the feral side of media, the relentless pressure of others' expectations. That usually happens to people who are promoted beyond their abilities, and he became the deer in the headlights. He could not ad lib, so the panic set in. I am ashamed to say I called him stunned mullet.

      My husband did not believe me when I said Kirwan had had an attack of self doubt and a sense of disorientation during that rugby game. "He is World famous " he said. "That is why, the question "Am I good enough?" is only asked by people who want to please.

      It does happen.

      • Treetop 7.7.1

        I agree with most of what you wrote in paragraph one. I differ when it comes to the feral side of the media. His own caucus members were the most feral and the media reported this.

        No one will know what the outcome would have been had key caucus members not have been slithering poisonous snakes.

  8. bruce 8

    TVNZ may have included this for some balance may be only the odd bad apple but the result is shown to have quite major effects.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/new-footage-south-island-farms-reveal-cows-living-in-knee-high-winter-mud

    • greywarshark 8.1

      People who love their cows talk about their patience – and also their strong urge to lie down and rest and chew their cud. Which of course they can;t do when they are standing in not just on, mud. Are these farmers or farm rentiers, looking to run their operations from an air-conditioned building and an expansive office chair, pressing buttons at the start and end of the day that operate the gates and prods?

      • Gabby 8.1.1

        They're not doing the soil any favours either. Not sure that a lot of Southland is ideal cattle country what with it being almost permanently waterlogged.

        • woodart 8.1.1.1

          tradionally , southland was most suited to growing swedes, now it seems that rednecks are the crop of choice.

  9. Uncle Scrim 9

    I have a question. Do people think NZ's media has ever, will ever, adapt to MMP, 24 years on, and for even five minutes drop the two-horse race, boxing and sporting metaphors about Labour and National leaders going 'head to head' etc. Admittedly, we may be in one of the most FPTP of all MMP elections, and Labour certainly won't mind a presidential-style contest (nor will National when they are polling so badly), but it is really shocking to see both TVNZ and TV3's advertising for leaders' debates – pretty much pro-wrestling style. And why do we even have leaders' debates with just two people? Obviously I know why, but honestly I'd rather see Ardern and Collins deal with whackjobs like Te Kakiha than it be treated as a simple binary choice for PM. Okay maybe not Te Kakiha but a debate with Ardern, Collins, Peters, Shaw and Seymour seems a perfectly valid TV show right?

    • woodart 9.1

      good point uncle, but think the media target the lowest I.Q. voters with simple win-lose good -bad choices. to put out programmes or even columns with multiple choices confuse many viewers-voters. those tv1 leaders debates are a sham, too lightweight to be taken seriously. even having them with all of the party leaders currentley in parliament(*which they should do), would still be a circus, all sound bites and slogans.

      • Uncle Scrim 9.1.1

        Yeah I agree. I'd rather see Campbell/Gower etc interview each leader one-on-one for 30-45 minutes, no interruptions from others, just probing questions and trying not to let them waffle.

  10. greywarshark 10

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018765475/dr-ashley-bloomfield-explains-covid-19-infected-family-s-travel

    I think we have to pop these offenders in cells for their isolation. The whole country is endangered, jobs, health, GDP, when these yoiks go off on a break. They need to be fined also with instant fines that hurt. And no being nice to Maori or pakeha, rich or poor, bung them into a caged facility and let them do their yards where they aren't costing us time and money while they flutter around like Large White Cabbage Butterflies.

    Has anyone seen these around lately? Or did we get clear of them?

    • SPC 10.1

      We are lucky the interface in Taupo occured at Level 2, at Level 1, as Seymour and Peters wanted, this would have been worse.

      This is still close to a scenario that would scare the epidemiologist and a Finance Minister the most.

      The two worst case scenarios that might still occur from this.

      1. We go to 2.5 nationwide and delay the election to November
      2. We go to Level 2, until the election on the 17 th of October and then on until December (it takes longer to stamp out at Level 2).
    • RedBaronCV 10.2

      If they had respected Auckland's alert levels then they would not have been meeting with all those 18 contacts from around the country in Taupo. And BTW aren't children supposed to be at school during the term. Not having holidays and playing truant?

  11. SPC 11

    The PM would not campaign for a CGT on winning in 2020 without need for NZF in a coalition, but she will for hate speech legislation. ACT and NZF will be fighting over the spoils of this on the right and National in the centre.

    The Imam conflating free speech with hate speech is a gift to the PM’s opponents.

  12. mpledger 12

    The man who developed covid-19 out of quarantine after testing negative in quarantine twice is a bit of a problem. It could be that he caught it off someone else in quarantine or that it just developed slowly in him. However, the other thing it could be is a change in covid-19 – that he may have a new strain that takes longer to become symptomatic/ observable/ measurable by testing – if so, then the sooner it gets genome sequenced the better and the MoH might have to think about the length of time people stay in quarantine.

  13. mpledger 13

    The All Blacks should say screw you and get their players home by Christmas. Actually, if the Aussies won't budge on the date then the All Blacks should stay home. In a year like this families should come first.

  14. ianmac 14

    It may be that Judith Collins is breaking down. Teary when talking about stress in the farming world yesterday and getting teary again today:

    She even got a bit emotional when she heard the Greens' statement in a press conference and said, with voice breaking, "It was hard to find anything nice to say about that."

    And not getting the following that she hoped for. Add Jacinda staying calm and in control in spite of jibes.

    I wonder if Judith cannot cope with her poor Leadership and will not last the distance. I don't mean that I think being a teary woman is so bad, so much as being a teary experienced hard nosed politician. Watch this space – or not.

    • Graeme 14.1

      I've wondered the same, and watched the decline from a quite vibrant and youthful woman 3 months ago to someone resembling the worst of Muldoon. She can still turn the vibrant youthful thing on for a while, but it's only for set pieces now, and is obviously painted on now.

      I saw a similar decline with Todd Muller, who ended up paying a heavy price for attempting to do more than he was able. It's distressing that people will do that to themselves but we don't personally see it coming.

      This will probably be Collin's first experience of political failure from a completely personal perspective. Up until now her setbacks could have been rationalised by it being another, more senior or powerful, person who rejected her, they became someone to undermine and defeat, now it's the public who are rejecting her and there's no one else to blame.

      I hope she doesn't have a crisis, no one deserves that, especially in a public way, but it's looking likely.

    • Gabby 14.2

      Or she's turning on the crocodile waterworks. Poor poor farmers. Poor wee Codger.

    • mary_a 14.3

      ianmac (14) … Judith Collins is attempting to present a facade of being nice and humane, when those particular traits are completely alien to her. Her "smiles"/grimaces are in line with the snarling facial expressions of a mad, rabid dog! It's so obvious she has been told by her advisers to be more like Jacinda, which in Collins' case is absolutely impossible! So I'd say the tears and sudden caring attitude (towards the farmers of course) are false.

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