David Farrar…..Busted.
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10:30 am, April 7th, 2014 - 134 comments
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David Farrar has let slip that he has been privy to information which is only intended for select committee members.
Tim Watkins covers this over on pundit:
The most interesting part is in relation to a letter that Countdown sent to the commerce select committee….
“Third, I’m curious how you know about the contents of the letter. No-one on the select committee would release it to us or even confirm its contents; doing so would have broken privilege. So I can only assume that either an MP has leaked it to you at risk of a privileges committee hearing or that you’ve been briefed by Countdown on this. Isn’t that something you should declare openly?”
Yes Tim, it definitely is something that David Farrar should declare openly.
And John Key needs to front up to the media about National’s relationship with David Farrar because this stinks.
134 comments on “David Farrar…..Busted. ”
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I can smell the stench of days old sausage rolls on his breath.
Really? I would wager he hasn’t been near a sausage roll for two years.
just cos he has lost weight e doesnt exclude him having the occassional sausage roll.
he may have had a staple, afterall not everything that comes out of his mouth can be believed.
Nah. He seems genuinely fitter with all those walks and hikes. If he had just had a staple, he wouldn’t magically ran a marathon. Credit where credit is due, he’s done a pretty great job getting fit.
More importantly, whoever photoshopped that photo on the front page. Well done. It took till the third glance that I noticed John Key on the left-hand side. I probably snorted a little too loudly.
doesnt mean he hasnt had a sausage roll.
i give him no credit for his weight loss while he consciously manipulates and deceives the electorate.
“i give him no credit for his weight loss ”
Seriously? That sounds like an obsession. Who stole his fat then? The guy runs marathons and climbs mountains.
i am sure he doesnt give a shit whether i give him credit for losing weight or not. why you care so much about whether i give him credit for it or not is fascinating.
so now he is a slim manipulator and deceiver of the electorate.
how will granny cover it?
With one of her garish knitted blankets, no doubt. (Super-itchy, too!)
Looking at the photo used for this post, I was led to wonder…is there a growing data base of John Key’s desperate attempts to execute 3 way handshakes anywhere?
Independent commentator Farrar, who moonlights as the Tory pollster and all-round arch-Tory insider, not that this influences his apolitical commentary, is simply playing the old bait and switch, which Key himself is famous for. Is the issue the content of the letter, or is the issue who knew and when? Pretty sure the Tories and their cronies want it to be the latter. The National Herald, and other bought and paid for media, will dutifully oblige, I’m sure.
I wonder what electoral status David Farrar has. Shouldn’t he be declared as a third party or his time and expenses as an electoral donation? Surely there must be some way that his lies and bluster should be accounted for under the Natzys electoral expenses as he is blatantly politicking for them
As much as I agree with most of Mr Watkins’ post, it looks like he’s got it wrong on this point. David Farrar links to a TV3 story at http://www.3news.co.nz/MP-accuses-Countdown-of-legal-threats/tabid/1607/articleID/338890/Default.aspx which states:
‘Countdown says the company has been communicating with the select committee, but has not threatened it.
“We have asked the select committee for a record of what was said at their recent meeting because it affects our business,” Countdown communications manager Kate Porter told NZ Newswire.
“Anyone is able to do that.”‘
It looks like Mr Farrar is simply accepting Countdown’s explanation regarding the contents of the letter.
1) The article refers says that Countdown has been “in communication” with the select committee about a record of what was said at the meeting.
2) According to Shane Jones, there is “a letter threatening legal action” from Countdown (but both Countdown and the select committee deny that such a letter exists).
3) Farrar specifically states that “the threatening letter merely asks for a transcript of the last hearing – which is a routine request”.
In the article, there is no specific reference that the “communication” in (1) and the letter in (2) are the same. So Farrar is either making an assumption about this or has inside knowledge.
That’s fair enough, wtl. There may very well be a difference between “a letter threatening legal action” and Countdown having been “in communication with the select committee re. seeking a transcript of a previous committee meeting.
My point is merely that Farrar appears to have assumed that the letter and the “communication” are one and the same. It’s not a strange assumption to have made (well, it’s the assumption that I immediately made when I read the TV3 article, so I’m therefore hoping it’s not a strange assumption…)
I simply think it’s a bit of a stretch to assume that Farrar didn’t make an assumption.
Really JonoL? So how come Farrar doesn’t say anything like that at all? If he made an assumption, why didn’t he write it as an assumption?
What he says is “The so called threatening letter merely asks for a transcript…”
There’s no assumption in there. It’s a plain statement of what is in the letter according to Farrar, not a guess or an assumption or a deduction, just a statement of fact.
Now maybe I’m a bit slow, but why should I disregard what Farrar actually said and instead assume that your assumption is correct?
If that’s true Jono why didn’t he declare his interest by saying that he’d been briefed by Countdown.
But if he’d simply assumed from the TV3 story that the letter and TV3s “communication” with the select committee were one and the same, there’s no reason why he’d have been briefed by Countdown.
I tend to favour cock up over conspiracy, and this story simply strikes me as being about Farrar interpreting the TV3 story in a way favourable to Countdown. Sure, there’s nothing to say that Farrar wasn’t briefed by Countdown (although quite how he’s managed to get himself briefed, given that he seems to be in Katmandu or some such at the moment), but equally there’s nothing to suggest that he was briefed either.
The photo with that criminal Tony Blair tell’s is all we want to know about the creature….
He always strikes me as sensible, articulate, and pleasant. It is these attributes that make him widely read and successful. Intelligence and politeness go a long way.
Life on Planet Key never ceases to amaze me. How you manage to continuously get you head up the same orifice on a daily basis is staggering. Still, where else you have to stick it, it must be a nice change, ah what!
its interesting that you have commented on several things about farrar on this thread except the central issue of the opening post.
Srylands
So getting back to the point of the post. Do you agree with Government MPs releasing to Farrar a letter that is confidential to a select committee?
EDIT: What Tracey said.
There is no evidence that they did, or that David Farrar has the letter. He doesn’t quote from the letter. I think David Geurin has identified the likely scenario:
“The TV3 story says: “We have asked the select committee for a record of what was said at their recent meeting because it affects our business,” Countdown communications manager Kate Porter told NZ Newswire.
David Farrar said: The so called threatening letter merely asks for a transcript of the last hearing – which is a routine request.”
i.e – he is simply paraphrasing the news story!
http://pundit.co.nz/content/open-letter-to-david-farrar-on-his-erroneous-kiwiblog-post-re-countdown
When he gets back from Nepal you can ask Farrar. He might tell you to sod off. Or he might just point out the obvious – that he has never quoted from any letter, but simply recouinted what Countdown has said publicly about the letter.
Anyway, the substantial story here is Countdown. I agree with Farrar’s original theme – the thing with Countdown has become (mostly) hysterical nonsense.
Nope. He doesn’t say “Countdown says the so-called threatening letter…”
He just states what he says is in the letter, according to himself, written as himself.
OK well email Farrar and ask him what he meant and did he have the letter. You can speculate here all day and not get an answer. I have given you my reading. It is a non story. But maybe you are right and it is a vast right wing conspiracy.
Yeah, to suggest that David Farrar works with the National Party is just crazy talk.
🙄
he had to wait until a defence was posted at kiwiblog before he could come back here and give us “his” opinion.
There was no defence posted at Kiwiblog.
When you sober up from your latest binge, email Farrar and ask him. I predict you will find it is a non issue.
you posted it here first????????
theres that politeness you have become known for.
do you still stand by your assessment of farrar despite
jokes at expense of greaving family (twice)
dressing as a paedophile at a party?
Yes I stand by my assessment of Farrar. Top bloke.
Fuckwit calls fellow fuckwit “top bloke”, TINA
Right, I’ll let him know you said that fender. Charming.
Please do. I especially hope you tell him to knock on my door so I can discover whether or not there’s borer in the baseball bat.
I think Farrar already knows he’s a fuckwit.
mcflock
do you get the sense this post bringing farrar into disrepute has struck quite the nerve with slylands… he seems very close to farrar. seems to be taking it almost perso9.
auSSpylands probably believes the penguin is a celebrity (rather than just a paid shill), so has been sucking up to him. Bit of a toryboy crush, you might say.
Farrar would know what the NZ rate of GST is, and probably crowed about it extensively when his emplo- sorry when the Prime minister announced it.
In contrast, auSSpylands failed dismally at knowing such basics of the NZ economy. Although all that says is that he might be an australian resident (as he’s previously claimed) or just a treasury economist.
you once said intelligence and politeness go a long way. i see you werent talking from personal experience
caput tuum in anu est.
sorrylands – Especially when he made a joke about the two Dunedin children killed by their father. That was immensely charming.
It is “srylands”. Was that the Bain joke? OK maybe it was too soon. OK 99.99% of the time he is reasonable and intelligent. How is that?
No, it cannot be about Bain because the father was shot and killed, with evidence suggesting it was the sole survivor who committed the deed.
SSpylands might not know about the two kids killed by their dad in Dunedin late last year.
Probably didn’t make the news in Australia, where he lives.
It is “srylands”
Limited denotation and connotation utility in that monicker. Subtle changes make it much more descriptive of the cultist in question.
Are you trying to be a smartarse? We have been through the Australia NZ thing before. Yes I know about the 2 kids. The Farrar joke after the 2 kids were kileld was if I recall correctly.
““Just out of interest, does anyone know where the Bain honeymoon was?
but no comment about the quality of a chap who twice makes tasteless jokes at the expense of bereaved folks.
still slater thinks exposing a victim of sexual abuse is cool if hes doing it.
birds of a feather
Slater is even worse.
Farrar may pretend to be a pedo for a laugh, but as far as I know he hasn’t made or published any child pornography.
Why was this comment by felix allowed past moderation?
That is well and truly a sick accusation to make, and it should not have been allowed.
[lprent: They aren’t accusations, they are statements of known fact.
Back in 2008 Cameron Slater photoshopped (amongst others) a young teenage labour activist’s head on to a homosexual porn image.
More recently there was a actual photo of David Farrar at a fancy dress party dressed up in the signature clothes of a convicted UK TV pedophile. Haven’t seen that myself but it was widely discussed on the blogs at the time.
I could dig out both images, but I’m sure that given these hints that you can google them yourself. If not then ask and someone is sure to have them archived.
However the reason that the comment wasn’t moderated was because felix was stating facts rather than asserting something that wasn’t true. ]
translation: “now I’ve had time to google up the relevant events across the ditch in NZ, I will pretend that’s what I meant all along”.
Nice work, SSpylands.
srylands
You call that a joke? It’s a terrible thing to say – what was he thinking? and what are you thinking repeating it and describing someone who can say such a thing as ‘a top bloke’?
It may have been a poor taste joke. Get over it. The guy contributes significantly to public policy debate in New Zealand. His writing is lucid, logical, and he is widely read. He is a major employer and contributes millions in tax revenue. Just what New Zealand needs.
Why do you have a problem with him? I can get how WOBH gets up your nose. But why Kiwiblog for gods sake? Is it because he was a fatty? I can kind of understand that – but he is a changed man. Have you considered that? Have you read his travel blogs? Seriously – find a better target. You will get nowhere with Farrar and just wind yourself into twisted and bitter while Farrar climbs mountains and hangs in Nevada and runs the NYC marathon.
Time for you to move on.
Lucid and logical?
You should talk to JonoL upthread. He reckons Farrar can’t tell the difference between writing “This is” and writing “This might be”.
he seems to have made some errors in his piece berating tv3…
Yep you must forgive our friend srylands, he doesn’t know much about NZ stuff.
He thinks the GST rate here is 10%.
He once said the mudflats of the Kaipara Harbour would be the perfect site for a nuclear reactor – silly fool had looked at googlemaps and taken a guess, and didn’t realise that the blue bit represented about 3 inches of water.
In this instace he probably just googled “dunedin murder father children”.
I don’t think he’s ever set foot in NZ.
No I haven’t. I don’t live in New Zealand at all. All that Wellington fog out the window in Pipitea Street is my imagination.
Ooh a street name. That proves it. 🙄
I could email you a selfie date stamped today in Pipitea Street?
are you here on one of your recruiting trips.
just post your real name, i am sure that would suffice
yeah – i would just stick with “i got gst wrong because i live in australia” if i was you
insisting that you do live in NZ and yet still didnt know what rate gst is far more embarrassing.
Yep, especially when you’ve already admitted that you’re in Australia you fucking moran.
“insisting that you do live in NZ and yet still didnt know what rate gst is far more embarrassing.”
Really? I assume you live in New Zealand and you wouldn’t know if your arse was on fire.
so confused our srylands
http://thestandard.org.nz/peak-driving-what-nationals-doing-with-12-billion-of-your-money/#comment-681420
“Really? I assume you live in New Zealand and you wouldn’t know if your arse was on fire.”
wow what happened to your oh so superior manners?
also – its not much of a comeback – kinda proves your in a hole here – wanna shovel?
Lol, SSLands, Spylands, however you call his name, it’s relevant, he works at the SIS headquarters in Pipitea St!
slylands has also claimed to work at 125 the terrace
“slylands has also claimed to work at 125 the terrace”
Really? Evidence please? Given that it is a carpark, and I park my car at 125 The Terrace, I would be very surpised.
and it is “srylands”. It is very rude of you to amend my name the way you do in an insulting manner.
crylands has claimed all manner of bullshit. None has stood up to any level of scrutiny.
“Really? Evidence please? Given that it is a carpark, and I park my car at 125 The Terrace, I would be very surpised.”
http://www.zoomin.co.nz/wellington/wellington+central/the+terrace/125/-nzqa/
Is that your car slylands?
so when you say you work til 730pm, you mean reading farrar’s travel blogs, kiwiblog and posting on the standard?
when you boil it all down, the overarching question remains
http://i.imgur.com/XIxlHQW.png
That is so funny freedom.
You could also do a Wellington CBD where’s wally, as Tracey said SSLands claimed to work at 125 The Terrace. Thats a bit of a walk from Pipitea St from Spy Headquarters. Or maybe he takes the Mercedes.
“OK 99.99% of the time he is reasonable and intelligent.”
The time he dressed as a pedophile for a fancy dress party, was that part of the 99.99%?
What is it about Farrar and children?
its ok though, unless he has a book signed by a paedophile and then it is heinous.
Good point there Tracey.
I hadn’t seen this smear before you really are a nasty piece of filth Felix.
What is it about you and calling people you disagree with pedo’s all the time ?
A bit Graham Capillesque if you ask me.
Yep, Farrar’s been smeared 🙄
https://twitter.com/CrAaronHawkins/status/345107451881848834
I never understand all this love for Farrar. Sure, you might support his politics and points of view, but why bother defending the fella when he does stupid shit?
He always strikes me as creepy, mercenary, sleazy, cowardly, and perverted. It is these attributes that make him widely read by the right and successful at encouraging the most vile hatreds. Limited pseudo-intelligence, contacts, forelock tugging and a prehensile tongue go a long way in NAct circles.
Fixed it for you, SSlands. And I call you SSlands because, with your blithering on about politeness, you remind me of a story I read years ago. An RAF pilot was shot down over France and captured by the Waffen SS. He was first interrogated by an aristocratic intelligence officer, von Sumzink und Utha, who displayed impeccable manners, but warned him that he would be turned over to the Luftwaffe, where he could not expect tea and crumpets, because they just didn’t come from the right stock. So fuck your smarmy fake politeness.
People used to talk about the ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing.’
Maybe a contest could be organised for a trendy, modern, new media friendly equivalent expression to encapsulate the special quality that people like David Farrar and John Key carry.
‘The suited mustelidae’ has a certain ring about it.
Reads like a Jason Ede post to me, innit.
if you read watkins response to farrar and kiwoblog, farrar got more than a few things wrong in his post in defence of countdown.
maybe while in nepal farrar will find his soul.
[Hey Tracey your name needs amending – MS]
thanks mickey
lets face it. fatboy is a f*cking moran who runs up and down mountains, stops speeding bullets with his teeth and is slimy piece of crud whose only reel frend in the wurld is whaleboil. waddaguy!
Weird how someone makes a comment about Paula Bennett’s appearance, and everyone comes over all chivilrous; but no-one on the left – apart from me – fins a comment like that puerile and disgusting.
Can we please be consistently rude, or polite, regardless of gender?
I’m all for making fun of fat people. Especially fat people with huge carbon footprints. But in this case it is inaccurate. He aint fat. Far from it.
I find it a bit strange that The Heroic Forces of the Left rounded on someone – one of their (alleged) own – the other day, in defence of Paula Bennett’s appearance. Yet when it doesn’t involve some bird getting fun poked at her over her appearance, they don’t seem to care. Bit of a weird double standard.
Fat woman, fat bloke, don’t see the difference. Its abhorrent in either case, or it doesn’t matter in either case, but people need to decide and be consistent.
Sometimes, I despise my fellow travellers, a bit. They come across as a nasty bunch of yahoos – like the Whaleoil vermin, only not as forthright and bold in their foulness.
my focus on this thread was Farrar’s comments, watkins reply and slylands appalling defence of some indefensible things. Along the way Slylands “stop being so riude” reverts to his name calling and suggesting I am drunk.
I’m aware Farrar lost weight, I said that in my first response, so to me calling him a “fatboy” is so erroneous it doesn’t require comment.
I have also scolded people for referring to Brownlee’s weight on here.
I think you mean moron. I understand he has many friends and he isnt fat.
Putting aside the communist vitriol this is a non issue . If the author thinks it is a real issue he should put it to David and ask for a response. He might get further if he skips the usual rudeness and bile.
have you read what watkins wrote? its to farrar and kiwiblog readers.
do you realise how stupid you look lecturing people about politeness while callng people names
Yes I have read it. It is poorly written.
You won’t get anything out of Farrar for 3 weeks. When he comes off the mountain, Watkins can ask him to respond. In the interim, it is all speculation.
OK, point taken. I am polite to 99% of people I deal with because most of them are rational.
so when you agree with someone they are intelligent and polite, articulate and just darn loveable. When you disagree they write poorly.
I hope you are not in the audit game, in any form, with such established prejudices based on your political ideology (or self interest)
lol @ communist vitriol. So what should we call you guys then? Bloody Nazis, I guess.
perhaps slylands didnt read watkins letter to farrar
The winners?
Sorrylands -Ha! In your delusional little dream.
It is srylands.
“I think you mean moron.”
Nice acceptance of the epiphet, moran.
I LOVED Black Books! I’d take it as a complement!
😀
I can’t help but wonder what Blair was thinking in that photograph ……..”I don’t care if this a New Zealand welcome…Get your Hands off my cock!”
I thought that photo said way more about Blair than Key or Farrar.
We already know key will shake the hand of anyone he thinks is a celebrity… while laughing at the funeral of the greatest leader/man of the 20th century
David Farrar can respond to the open letter if he wishes, but here is my 2 cents on the key parts:
But viewers were left in no doubt about the ASA complaints and their outcomes. There was no “key fact missing” from The Nation or the video at the top of the story you link to. Did you bother to watch that?
Second, you seem to miss the crucial point of the Lotto allegations made by Labour MP Shane Jones. You wrote:
“Then the next bash was shock horror they sell Lotto tickets: … That’s just pathetic. I’ve been buying lotto tickets at New World for over a decade. Why is it fine at one group of supermarkets, but not another? This is just smearing Countdown.”
Countdown sells Lotto tickets at the tills.
Jones is right when he makes the distinction between what Countdown does compared to other supermarkets;
You may say large Jackpots are fine and fun, as is selling Lotto at the till. But the Mad Butcher said sales of food – food – at his stores falls by 8-9 percent on Jackpot weeks and by up to 15 percent on Jackpot days.
Other retailers tell of similar trends and budgeting agencies tell of an increased demand for foodbank parcles in the days after a Jackpot weekend.
Desperate people make bad choices, it seems. Is that purely their responsibility or are Lotto and Countdown also culpable.
Third, I’m curious how you know about the contents of the letter.
Fourth, you have every right to support Countdown in the hours it wants to sell alcohol. But that’s not the point of Yule’s criticism – or that of two others mayors The Nation spoke to. The purpose of the bill National passed last year was that local communities should have the final word on what hours alcohol can be sold in their community. Judith Collin could explain that to you. Countdown, as is their legal right, is challenging that. Fair enough. But the mayors’ complaint is that Progressive has been particularly aggressive in its approach – more so than any other appellant.
Finally, you “acknowledge that Countdown’s alleged behaviour towards suppliers appears to have been bad”, but you don’t mention that the most significant part of Morton’s claims were over treatment of suppliers and the fact he has become the first person to confirm he has taken part in a complaint to the Commerce Commission on just that issue.
Regards,
Tim Watkin
Can someone please delete that garbled mangled pile of shit so srylands can try again?
I suggest you quit with the rudeness and read it.
How the fuck is anyone supposed to read that? There’s no way of knowing which parts are yours, which parts are Farrar’s and which parts are Watkins’.
Write it again and do it properly this time. It’s not difficult.
plus 1 felix – very poor effort from slylands above – a shambles really.
it’s written very poorly by Slylands that’s for sure. All on the company clock.
oh give him a break – must be hard to type while driving the kapiti coast all the way from australia 🙂
lol
Ah, the much feared Dadaist-surrealist-Escher style of posting. Look at it one way, and it is gobbledigook. Look at it another, and is gookdigobble! Either way, unanswerable, because incomprehensible.
Still, a masterpiece of something or other.
At first I thought Phil was posting while high.
to quote his bobness, sorrylands is tangled up in poo.
That handshake in the picture is not too clear. I won’t be surprised if it is another Key’s signature three-way-handshake. But where is the troty?
It’s a bit sad that an Aussie troll feels the need to chuck in his two cents to political debate in little old Aotearoa… and even pretend he’s one of us.
Spraylands, do yourself a favour and increase the IQs of both our fair countries by finding some Aussie political news to comment on.
I understand you have a massive boner for the penguin and, yes he does come across as rational most of the time, but I’m sure you have your fair share of hard core Tories dressed as moderate Tories to satisfy your need to spray mindless bullshit to anyone who will listen.
There’s an old strategy in policy and lobbying. You have someone quite extreme, damnding the world and chaining themselves tot he boardroom table (or in Slater’s case exposing identities of sexual assault victims for his own end ) and then you have someone from the middle, seeking change but not seeming as radical.
Farrar and Slater play this role. Farrar seems sane and compassionate and reasoned because of who he is being compared with…
+1
Slylands spent the day defending Farrar. Curious and curiouser, given he doesn’t care enough about politics to get emotional about it.
Out of curiousity, there is lot of talk about Farrar dressing as a pedophile for a fancy dress party. When was this? I was aware he dressed as David Bain once but that is all. Anyone got a link?
Here’s one reference to it:
//twitter.com/CrAaronHawkins/status/345107451881848834
Farrar denies being briefed by Countdown. Problem solved.
http://tinyurl.com/mkbje7v
Yep, he got his info directly from National.
this bit?
“@mdnharris @Tim_Watkin No I wasn’t. Just a smear attack by Tim on me. Had zero dealings with them.”
If it wasn’t Countdown, then where did he get his intimate knowledge of the letter?
“David Farrar said : The so called threatening letter merely asks for a transcript of the last hearing – which is a routine request.”
I suspect farrar wrote it that way to appear he had more knowledge than anyone else… deliberately misleading.
the alternative is he is a poor writer. slylands ought to vehemently oppose the later explanation.
gosh you thought it would take 3 weeks to get an answer. I guess this was more important than you suggested. how many emails texts and tweets did you send him yesterday.
As I thought. Farrar’s detailed rebuttal shows this original post was a load of bollocks.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/04/responding_to_tim_watkin.html
The only load of shit round here SSLands is you, now piss off back to the sewer where you belong…
You are childish and rude as usual.
linkwhoring for him now? there’s a surprise…
Not even a summary of the main points to actually show that the post is “bollocks”. 🙄
No. You can presumably read his brief and cogent post as quickly as me. Why do you want a summary?
Because I don’t want to give him clickstats.
Because every time I do check a link from a tory or nutbar, it’s invariably been a waste of my time and almost never lived up to the hype of the linkwhore.
Because I wouldn’t put it past him to graze as much data as possible from anyone who visits his site, including the use of flash cookies.
Because you initially described it as a detailed rebuttal, but now you’re calling it brief and cogent. While it’s theoretically possible that both descriptions are true, the fact that you’re spinning like crazy to boost farrar’s site visits disinclines me further to bother with your bullshit. You stupid cow.
You think the posters on here care about things like this, they only care about smears and half-truths
Farrar says he got his information directly from the story that is on the TV3 website…?
I guess telling lies, and smearing people you disagree with (saying they are in the pay of your enemies) is easier and more fun than running with facts though.
The trouble with Labour people is their utter tribal loyalty makes them incapable of reading the facts of any even remotely complex issue and independently forming a conclusion. Oh no. If you’re not for us, then you’re for THEM and you’re THE ENEMY. And the enemy is INFINITELY malign and cunning.