Davidson detained by Israeli navy protesting blockade of Gaza

Written By: - Date published: 12:28 pm, October 6th, 2016 - 145 comments
Categories: International - Tags: , , ,

Marama Davidson

A boat on which Green MP Marama Davidson was a passenger of, bound for Gaza has been intercepted by the Israeli navy.

From Radio New Zealand:

The yacht sailed by a dozen women was intercepted by the Israeli Defence Forces and was being towed to the Israeli port of Ashdod.

Many of those on board, including Ms Davidson, pre-recorded statements in the event their boat was intercepted.

The Women’s Boat to Gaza activists aimed to peacefully protest at Israel’s decade-long blockade and draw attention to the humanitarian situation in Gaza.

Israeli personnel – men and women – boarded the Zaytouna-Olivia which had set sail from Barcelona last month, Reuters reported. A military spokeswoman said no force was required to stop the vessel.

The Green Party has responded.

We are calling on Israel to swiftly release Ms Davidson and the rest of the crew of the Zaytouna-Olivia, and to end the illegal blockade of Gaza,” Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei said.

“This inhumane blockade has been in place for a decade, resulting in plummeting living standards and health services, high unemployment, and severe food insecurity for the people of Gaza.

“More aid is urgently needed to help rebuild the homes, public services and livelihoods that were destroyed in 2014 in the war between Israel and Hamas.

Ms Turei said Parliament expressed support for the Women’s Peace Boat to Gaza and she hoped MPs would join the Green Party’s condemnation of Israel’s actions.

Israel maintains that the blockade is necessary to prevent munitions from being smuggled into Gaza.  But intercepting ships on the high seas has always been problematic if not illegal, even if they do contain munitions.  And clearly this ship is not containing munitions.

There is compelling opinion that the blockade is illegal.  A panel of human rights experts including former New Zealand Prime Minister Geoffrey Palmer previously offered the opinion that the blockade was a flagrant contravention of international human rights and humanitarian law.

From Huffington Post:

Israel’s naval blockade of the Gaza Strip violates international law, a panel of human rights experts reporting to a UN body said on Tuesday, disputing a conclusion reached by a separate UN probe into Israel’s raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship.

The so-called Palmer Report on the Israeli raid of May 2010 that killed nine Turkish activists said earlier this month that Israel had used unreasonable force in last year’s raid, but its naval blockade of the Hamas-ruled strip was legal.

The Mavi Marmara ship aboard which Israel’s raid of a Gaza-bound flotilla left nine Turkish activists dead. The Palmer Commission report on the May 31, 2010 events was leaked on September 1, 2011.

A panel of five independent UN rights experts reporting to the UN Human Rights Council rejected that conclusion, saying the blockade had subjected Gazans to collective punishment in “flagrant contravention of international human rights and humanitarian law.”

The four-year blockade deprived 1.6 million Palestinians living in the enclave of fundamental rights, they said.

“In pronouncing itself on the legality of the naval blockade, the Palmer Report does not recognize the naval blockade as an integral part of Israel’s closure policy towards Gaza which has a disproportionate impact on the human rights of civilians,” they said in a joint statement.

Meanwhile the situation in Gaza is deteriorating further with unemployment standing at 40% and with the civilian population suffering from extreme hardship.

145 comments on “Davidson detained by Israeli navy protesting blockade of Gaza ”

  1. Chooky 1

    Go Marama Davidson !..and the brave women…and the Greens who are defending her

    …and Great Post thanks!

  2. Nessalt 2

    How do you reconcile this statement

    “There is compelling opinion that the blockade is illegal. A panel of human rights experts including former New Zealand Prime Minister Geoffrey Palmer previously offered the opinion that the blockade was a flagrant contravention of international human rights and humanitarian law.”

    with this statement

    “The so-called Palmer Report on the Israeli raid of May 2010 that killed nine Turkish activists said earlier this month that Israel had used unreasonable force in last year’s raid, but its naval blockade of the Hamas-ruled strip was legal.”

    Why isn’t Marama protesting the blanket subjugation of woman’s rights by Hamas? you certainly wouldn’t see female Hamas personnel doing anything alongside the males. Even if they would do it better.

    [You are right. I had mistakenly thought Palmer was a member of the review committee not the author of the original report. I have amended the post – MS]

  3. Adrian Thornton 3

    Inspiring to see politicians with the strength of their convictions…Labour should take a close look to see what it looks like, as it seems most must have forgotten.

    Here is Norman Finkelstein/Dershwitz on Democracy Now!, debating Dershowitz’s book The Case for Israel, an oldie but a goodie…
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKvRzgCPd4Q

  4. alwyn 4

    What would happen if the protesters were charged under some Israeli law for which the possible penalty was, say, 3 years in jail?
    If found guilty but then immediately expelled from Israel would it mean she was automatically expelled from the New Zealand Parliament? After all an MP is bounced for being found guilty of an offence for which a penalty of 2 years imprisonment applies, even if they don’t actually get that sentence.
    As far as argument about whether the blockade is, as apparently determined by Palmer, legal or as being illegal as some others seem to believe we would seem to be involved in the activity that Key is routinely charged with.
    The Green Party approach seems to be.
    Your lawyer says one thing but we have found another one who says the opposite.

  5. swordfish 5

    Agree with the broad thrust of Metiria Turei’s statement but have a few probs with:
    ” … that were destroyed in 2014 in the war between Israel and Hamas.”

    “War” ??? … “One-sided massacre of civilians” would be closer to the mark.

    Over the past decade, Israel has mounted three major assaults on the 1.8 million Palestinians trapped behind its blockade of Gaza – a population overwhelmingly comprised of refugees, nearly half of them under 15.

    Taken together, Operation Cast Lead (2008-9), Operation Pillar of Defense (2012), and Operation Protective Edge (2014), have resulted in the deaths of some 3,700 Palestinians. Meanwhile, a total of 90 Israelis were killed in the invasions (many military and some from friendly fire).

    In the last of these alone, Israel’s assault killed more than 2000 Palestinians (nearly a quarter of them children), maimed and permanently disfigured many thousands more and displaced close to 100,000, while at the same time wreaking massive damage on Gaza’s infrastructure.

    “The sustained strangulation and repeated bombardment of an impoverished refugee camp”, as one analyst has described these one-sided massacres.

    As Norman Finkelstein has shown, each attack on Gaza was preceded by (1) a pattern of deliberate Israeli provocations leading to (2) retaliation (sometimes Hamas / sometimes independent groups) by means of largely ineffectual rockets, which (3) Israel then exploited as a pretext for massive bombardment and destruction.

  6. save nz 6

    Go Marama!

  7. Colonial Viper 7

    Actual moral and physical courage from an actual NZ politician. Outstanding.

    (I trust that our SIS informed the Mossad in good time about the presence of the NZ Parliamentarian on the vessel.)

  8. Scott 8

    What is the big deal? They will stamp her passport as not welcome back and pop her on a plane home. She is not about to be mistreated in the least.

    Apart from anything else, this is exactly what she wanted to happen. She never had any expectation of making it to Gaza. They all knew full well they would be intercepted and sent home when they embarked on this virtue signally holiday.

    • Morrissey 8.1

      The fact she was forcibly, illegally removed from international waters is mistreatment. Certainly, they didn’t murder her like they murdered nine peace activists in 2010. I guess that’s what you mean when you claim she wasn’t mistreated: they didn’t kill her.

      Your contemptuous portrayal of these brave protestors—“virtue signalling”—is an indictment of you.

      • Paul 8.1.1

        Making the mistake of listening to the Panel today.
        No perceptive comments to explain why people in South Auckland do not vote.
        Ellen Read demonstrating how the media has no understanding.

        • Wensleydale 8.1.1.1

          As a resident of South Auckland, I’ve noticed a number of Vic Crone billboards have had moustaches drawn on them. There’s a noticeable level of contempt, particularly for Crone and Palino.

          • Morrissey 8.1.1.1.1

            Crone has made some extremely foolish anti-science statements and Palino still has the stink of being involved in Whaleoil’s dirty tricks brigade. What else would they expect from the people of South Auckland—praise?

            • Wensleydale 8.1.1.1.1.1

              Obviously not. It’s just nice to see that people are thinking about this stuff and registering their disapproval, in a variety of ways.

      • Draco T Bastard 8.1.2

        +1

      • Groundhog 8.1.3

        Actually she breached a legal blockade. And condoned this http://www.timesofisrael.com/rocket-fired-from-gaza-lands-in-sderot-street/.

        • Morrissey 8.1.3.1

          Both of your statements are diametrically opposite to the truth. In other words, you’re a liar.

          • Groundhog 8.1.3.1.1

            No. Both are true. And the blockade is the direct result of the election of Hamas, a terrorist organisation, and the refusal of Hamas to withdraw from terrorist action against Israel.

            • Morrissey 8.1.3.1.1.1

              You are wrong, and you know it.

              As I’ve just commented on another thread, you lack the smarts for this my friend. But even if you were a smooth and accomplished liar of the calibre of Christopher Hitchens, you can’t win by baldly repeating lies.

              • Macro

                you can’t win by baldly repeating lies.
                Oh I don’t know. His hero does it all the time. 😸

              • Groundhog

                So show where I’m wrong. Davidson is grandstanding in support of a terrorist organisation elected by the people she is in solidarity with.

            • Colonial Viper 8.1.3.1.1.2

              The problem stems from the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and the subsequent theft of Palestinian land by Jewish paramilitaries.

              And more recently the repeated slaughter of hundreds of Palestinians by the most modern advanced army in the Middle East.

              Hamas seems to be the democratic choice of the Palestinian people and the Israeli Government doesn’t get a say.

              • GregJ

                Hamas seems to be the democratic choice of the Palestinian people

                Only in Gaza in 2006. There have been no Palestinian National Elections since then and Hamas refused to conduct Local Elections in 2012 in Gaza.

                • Colonial Viper

                  Unfortunately I see Gaza quietly throttled out of existence by Israel within the next 20 years.

                  • GregJ

                    @CV

                    Something that would suit both Israel and Egypt.

                    I was speaking to an Egyptian lawyer yesterday who thinks Gaza should just be part of Egypt and Gazans allowed to relocate within Egypt if they wish (with compensation payments made by Israel and the Egyptian government to aid in resettlement). He has a very unfavourable view of Hamas, as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, and wants to see it eliminated.

              • Groundhog

                The ‘Palestinian’ land you speak of CV is occupied by Israel as the direct result of military aggression by Israel’s Arab neighbours. Israel withdrew from Gaza, and the ‘Palestinians’ (whatever that means) began sending rockets into Israeli territory. The entire situation sucks, and there is blood on the hands of both sides, but lets not fool ourselves that Hamas want peace.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  the direct result of military aggression

                  Yes, because that’s how Germany became part of France. No, wait…

            • pete 8.1.3.1.1.3

              And the latest brutal assault by Israel on Gaza is just as legal as it is to torch the neighbours home when he throws a lemon over the fence?

              • Groundhog

                Pete, if the people who control the terrorists in Gaza haven’t learned by now about Israeli disproportionate response, they never will. If they stop sending rockets into Israel, they will have peace.

        • Colonial Viper 8.1.3.2

          A “legal blockade” – did the UN sign off on it or are you making shit up?

          The Government of Israel uses the flimsiest excuses to kill hundreds or thousands of Palestinian civilians.

          How many Israelis have been killed by those home workshop rockets in the last five years?

          • Stunned mullet 8.1.3.2.1

            Perhaps Israel should get into bed with Putin – then they could bomb garza back into the Stone Age and you would be applauding all the way.

            • Paul 8.1.3.2.1.1

              That is not what cv is saying.
              You should become a lot more informed about Syria and Israel before talking on the subject. At present it looks like you believe all you are told.
              Read either Fisk, Cockburn, Pilger or Cohen. All experts. Then explain why you know more than them.

          • Groundhog 8.1.3.2.2

            Are you suggesting a death count is an appropriate way to apply blame? Are you suggesting Israel should not retaliate because the rockets haven’t killed as many people?

            • Colonial Viper 8.1.3.2.2.1

              BTW what has been the Israeli death toll from these garage made rockets in the last ten years?

              Simply put, the Israeli Government uses these rockets as a pretext to inflict a massively disproportionate level of death, suffering and destruction in Gaza.

              Cutting the grass, I think you Israelis call it.

              • Groundhog

                “Simply put, the Israeli Government uses these rockets as a pretext to inflict a massively disproportionate level of death, suffering and destruction in Gaza.”

                It’s not a pretext. Self defence is justified. That it is disproportionate is self evident, but if the terrorists who inhabit Gaza stop the rockets, they’ll find a lot less coming back at them.

    • Paul 8.2

      You think it’s a holiday, Scott!
      Have you heard of words like solidarity, selflessness, sacrifice?
      Wow, the world would be a better place with more people like you around. Your sense of society is breathtaking.

      • Scott 8.2.1

        Yes, I think it was an oh look at me, aren’t I righteous, publicity stunt of a holiday that is pointless and perhaps counter-productive.

  9. Venezia 9

    Go Marama! Standing up for human rights in the Gaza Strip. Many,many NZers are with her in spirit.

    • Paul 10.1

      Have you heard of words like solidarity, selflessness, sacrifice?
      Wow, the world would be a better place with more people like you around. Your sense of society is breathtaking.

  10. Wayne 11

    These days the standard position of the progressive left is to be anti-Israel, pro-Hamas and supporters of boycott and divest. Usually calling Israel an apartheid state or worse. Not unsurprisingly the response of the right is to be pro-Israel and anti-Hamas usually calling Hamas terrorists. And in the US to pass laws for all state funds to disinvest from any organisation supporting B&D.
    So basically no dialogue, just abuse of each other as the comments to this post nicely illustrate.
    In my view the constant posturing of outsiders (usually to impress their supporters) in the Israel-Palestine conflict is just making things worse. It reinforces the views of the actual protagonists of the correctness of their position with no need to compromise.
    It would be better to back off a bit. It might then be easier for the Israelis and the Palestinians to actually talk to each other.
    One tiny advantage of the Syrian conflict is that generally the focus has gone off the Israelis and the Palestinians and notwithstanding Marama’s stunt, my understanding that is happening. Hamas has backed off firing rockets and Israel is allowing more stuff through the border crossings. Best to give them space to progress things. One of those situations where quiet diplomacy is much more important than stunts, which in my view are an unhelpful distraction. But no doubt grist to the mill for SJW brigade.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1

      Your conflict of interest is showing, Dr. Mapp.

      You have little insight into the “position of the progressive left” other than weak flamebait and projection.

      And boy, do you hate women interfering in your cosy little world. How about you fuck off?

      • left for dead 11.1.1

        Here here, my thoughts too.

      • stigie 11.1.2

        “How about you fuck off?”

        Dr Wayne Mapp doesn’t deserve that treatment, what a nasty little man you are OAB.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1.2.1

          If he’s going to run his mouth expressing his flamebait views about the Left he’s going to get it right back in kind. I agree that’s he’s more intelligent than that and sometimes contributes comments of value: he’s obviously capable of lifting his game.

          As for you, get off your knees, hypocrite. What respect did you ever extend to Andrew Little, for example?

          • stigie 11.1.2.1.1

            Yep, i may not agree with Little’s politics but i would never tell him to “Fuck off”.
            You are still a nasty little man OAB !

            • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1.2.1.1.1

              How do you know? To my knowledge he doesn’t go to Failoil or the Sewer and start telling you what you all think.

        • Scott 11.1.2.2

          Well put stigie.

        • DoublePlusGood 11.1.2.3

          People who support genocide do deserve that treatment. They are the absolute worst of humanity, entirely deserving of being social pariahs.

      • Chuck 11.1.3

        And boy OAB you hate when logic interferes with your unique outlook, the only response you can muster is vile attempts to intimidate.

        • Draco T Bastard 11.1.3.1

          Never seen a RWNJ use logic.

          • James 11.1.3.1.1

            That’s because there are none so blind that they don’t want to see.

            • Draco T Bastard 11.1.3.1.1.1

              Yep, the RWNJ definitely do not want to see reality as that proves their ideology, their deepest held beliefs in greed and selfishness, wrong.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1.3.2

          In fact, I’m objecting to Dr. Mapp’s false characterisation of the “progressive Left”.

          As for Hamas and the Israeli government: between them they have levelled the moral high ground and now it is a mass grave. Can you see how offensive it is when Dr. Mapp pretends that peace activism is the same as taking sides?

          • Groundhog 11.1.3.2.1

            The ‘progressive’ left support terrorists in Gaza. They support the worst excesses of militant islam. They oppose one of the only democracies in the middle east. It really is a bankrupt ideology.

      • Stunned Mullet 11.1.4

        You may not like Wayne’s views and disagree with them as much as you like but why should he “fuck off” ?

        A bit of even handed moderation on this site would go a long way.

        • stigie 11.1.4.1

          Correct Stunned Mullet, if it had of been me that said it, im sure i would’ve been banned !

        • One Anonymous Bloke 11.1.4.2

          It’s really a question of “how” he fucks off. Perhaps he’ll change his behaviour.

    • miravox 11.2

      “It would be better to back off a bit. It might then be easier for the Israelis and the Palestinians to actually talk to each other.

      That strategy has worked out well
      From yesterday

      The White House has accused Israel of a betrayal of trust, in an unusually sharp rebuke over its plans to build hundreds of new settlement homes deep in the West Bank.

      Days after Obama approved a $38bn Israeli military aid package and attended former president Shimon Peres’s funeral in Jerusalem, the White House railed at the construction of 300 housing units on land “far closer to Jordan than Israel”.

      Warning that the decision jeopardizes the already distant prospect of Middle East peace as well as Israel’s own security, press secretary Josh Earnest said Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s word had been called into question.

      “We did receive public assurances from the Israeli government that contradict this announcement,” he said.

      “I guess when we’re talking about how good friends treat one another, that’s a source of serious concern as well.”

      • swordfish 11.2.1

        Whenever there’s a lull in violence, Israel’s settlement expansion actually accelerates. They get to have their cake and eat it.

    • Macro 11.3

      You know Wayne as well as anyone here that the issue is not with Hamas, but the illegal occupation by Israel of Palestinian land and the consequent subjugation of those people since 1948. For a person raised in the Gaza strip they have never known anything else but subjugation by Israel their whole life. They live in fear all their life, and they know that as children they cannot be safe even when they go to the beach. I will not link to the atrocities of the recent past, they are known well enough.
      Yes of course this is a stunt. I spoke to Marama some time before she left and she was well aware of the likelihood of the boat being intercepted, but naturally hoped that that would not be the case, and that the aid they were bringing would get to where it was needed most.
      This “stunt” focuses the world yet again on the necessity for there to be a resolution to this festering sore that Israel caused 68 years ago. It is through the brave actions of people like Marama that the world progresses towards being a fairer place for all people, not just the “chosen” few.

      • Chuck 11.3.1

        “I spoke to Marama some time before she left and she was well aware of the likelihood of the boat being intercepted, but naturally hoped that that would not be the case, and that the aid they were bringing would get to where it was needed most.”

        Then Marama is either lying to you, or just well plan dumb.

        If she really wanted to get some aid through then the land boarder crossing is what she should of used…but we all know it was not about getting any supplies through.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.4

      Usually calling Israel an apartheid state or worse.

      They make Hitler look like a child throwing a tantrum. We’re talking 7+ decades of terrorism employed against the Palestinians.

      It would be better to back off a bit. It might then be easier for the Israelis and the Palestinians to actually talk to each other.

      The Israelis have never had any intention of talking to the Palestinians and never will do. Their modus operandi is to shoot first, second and third. Their goal is to drive the Palestinians from Palestine.

      • Stunned Mullet 11.4.1

        “They make Hitler look like a child throwing a tantrum. We’re talking 7+ decades of terrorism employed against the Palestinians.”

        Really ?

        I know you hold some extreme views DTB but even for you this is way out of left field. Perhaps you need to get out of NZ and do some travel through the middle east to broaden your perspectives.

    • Hanswurst 11.5

      These days the standard position of the progressive left is to be anti-Israel, pro-Hamas and supporters of boycott and divest. Usually calling Israel an apartheid state or worse. Not unsurprisingly the response of the right is to be pro-Israel and anti-Hamas usually calling Hamas terrorists.

      What you are saying there is that the Right is drumming up anti-Hamas sentiment purely in order to get on the Left’s goat. What an enlightened approach to international relations.

    • One Two 11.6

      More bullshit

      I’m seeing form through your comments, Wayne…

      Are you also a ‘dual citizen’?

      Perhaps ‘lineage’ such as PM John Key ?

      The violations of international law and slaughtering of specific genetic groups who are trapped in an open air prison, has been going on for decade after decade

      All the while ‘expansion’ has continued in parallel with the genocidal policies and controlled media dutifully running interference

      “Let them get on with it”….

      Bullshitter and genocide enthusiast!

      • Wayne 11.6.1

        So Draco and One two think Israel commits genocide. And the Hitler comparison from Draco – well that is not something I expected.

        Anyway back to Gaza. Fifteen years ago Gaza was actually on track to viability. It had an international airport, a port, and a lot of infrastructure investment. It was not being attacked by Israel. But the rocket attacks changed all that. And for the last ten years there has been effectively a state of war and a blockade, admittedly a bit of a one-sided war. But for really large scale wars, Syria , Aleppo and Homs have dwarfed anything that has happened to Gaza.

        My understanding is that the two sides (Israel and Palestine) are trying to get things onto a better track.

        Israel accepts Gaza. After all they actually withdrew their forces. The people of Gaza are at no risk of being pushed into the sea.

        In my view the situation that existed 15 to 20 years ago can be re-created.

        • joe90 11.6.1.1

          The people of Gaza are at no risk of being pushed into the sea.

          Moshe Feiglin, former deputy speaker of the Knesset, has other plans.

          Gaza is part of our Land and we will remain there forever. Liberation of parts of our land forever is the only thing that justifies endangering our soldiers in battle to capture land. Subsequent to the elimination of terror from Gaza, it will become part of sovereign Israel and will be populated by Jews. This will also serve to ease the housing crisis in Israel. The coastal train line will be extended, as soon as possible, to reach the entire length of Gaza.

          http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/15326

        • swordfish 11.6.1.2

          Wayne: “Israel accepts Gaza. After all they actually withdrew their forces.”

          I think you’ll find that Sharon’s real goal in pulling the small number of settlers (around 8,000) out of Gaza in 05 was candidly admitted by one of his advisors, Dov Weisglass.

          As Weisglass happily conceded to the Israeli Press, the objective behind Israel’s “disengagement” from Gaza was to silence the growing pressure from the International community to come to a proper peace agreement with the Palestinians and thus, as Weisglass boasted, to firmly place the “peace process” in “formaldehyde”.

          Withdrawal from Gaza would not only save the IDF the hassle of having to look after the tiny number of Jewish Settlers (for example, ensuring they received more than 50% of Gaza’s water resources, despite comprising a tiny – and, of course, illegal – minority of the territory’s population) but, more importantly, the goodwill generated within the international community would also allow Israel the political space it needed to continue its expansion of the vast array of illegal Jewish settlements on the Occupied West Bank with impunity, a far greater prize than a few measly, expensive-to-run communities in Gaza.

          And, of course, the beauty of the plan was that Israel continued to maintain absolute control over Gaza’s land borders, coastline and airspace and the IDF continues to enter Gaza at will. Hence, under International Law, Gaza is still considered to be Occupied by Israel.

          The withdrawal therefore simply reinforced the occupation of Palestinian land by making it much more economically and (at least in Israeli eyes) diplomatically viable.

          Gaza remains very much an imprisoned enclave, suffering what UN envoys (eg former Irish President, Mary Robinson) have described as a massive humanitarian crisis created by both Israel’s crippling blockade and, of course, its periodic, carefully pre-planned massacres of Palestinian men, women and children (always overwhelmingly civilians) – routine carpet-bombing that the sick fuckers of the Israeli elite casually, almost triumphantly, call: “mowing the lawn”. (and you wonder why some people compare them to the Nazis ?)

          As another of Sharon’s close advisors, Arnon Sofer, smirked at the time of the withdrawal in 2005, “……when 2.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza, it’s going to become a human catastrophe. Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today…”, before going on to say that “we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day.”

          And here’s Weisglass, once again, on Israel’s Gaza sanction regime, restricting food, medicine, electricity and water, “The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger.”

    • DoublePlusGood 11.7

      SJW? Really? Did you just get here from 4chan, or twitch chat?

      Completely unsurprising to see you supporting the oppressor that killed people, drove them off their land, imprisoned them in the remainder, denies them the resources they need to live, and continues to kill them with the aim of their extirpation.
      Spineless, Wayne.

  11. Dale 12

    Well I hope she doesn’t get harmed by a rocket fired from Gaza while she is in Israel.

    • Ross 12.1

      I hope she doesn’t get raped by the IDF. That’s more likely than being hit by a rocket. But it’s great you’re concerned about her welfare.

      http://thefreethoughtproject.com/idf-chief-rabbi-permits-raping-women/

    • Cinny 12.2

      Shakes my head, haven’t you heard about the Iron Dome? Rockets hardly ever land on the Israeli side. The air sirens sound scary, but that’s about it.
      During the conflict, some didn’t even worry about the air sirens because they knew any rockets would be intercepted by the Iron Dome, sure is easier to stay put than carry wheelchair bound Granny down from the 3rd floor to the shelter. Just another siren, no worries, yes Granny I know you can’t be bothered with it. True story that one.

      But in Gaza it is a very different story, they have no Iron Dome defence system, just thousands dead by Israeli bombs instead.

      • rsbandit 12.2.1

        So Palestine need to stop firing. They are fighting something they cannot possibly win, as they are outgunned.

        They need to push all efforts towards a diplomatic compromise. The world will be on their side if they do.

        • DoublePlusGood 12.2.1.1

          The world keeps pushing them to a compromise where they still have lost everything. That’s why they will continue to fight. They compromised before and that didn’t work.

  12. rspandit 13

    I despair about how so many of us support Palestine and Hamas.

    Radical Islam is not the friend of women or children.

  13. rsbandit 14

    I despair why so many on the left support Palestine.

    Radical Islam is not the friend of women and children.

    • Cinny 14.1

      Dude, you don’t understand the full politics of Israel and Palestine to make such an uneducated statement.

      I don’t understand why Cameron Slater was paid in part by the Israeli government (aka propaganda machine) to go to Israel and report on a conference in Tel Aviv while the conflict in Gaza was happening back in 2014. The conference was canned because of the conflict, but Slater decided to write about Israel instead.

      I’m well aware of what happens there, friends live in Tel Aviv you see, I’ve a better understanding than most of the conflict over there. JS

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11312402

      Let’s have a look at a few stat’s shall we?

      Between 8 July and 27 August, more than 2,100 Palestinians were killed in the Gaza Strip, along with 66 Israeli soldiers and seven civilians in Israel. The UN says the vast majority of Palestinian deaths are civilian.

      I’m against needless death, does that make me right wing, left wing or just human?

      • rsbandit 14.1.1

        Palestine need to stop and do a deal. They cannot win by fighting. They can only lose.

        Hamas using human shields may help explain the death toll. These numbers also make it clear they can only possibly lose by fighting.

      • Chuck 14.1.2

        “Between 8 July and 27 August, more than 2,100 Palestinians were killed in the Gaza Strip”

        Hamas making sure Palestinian civilians are put in as much danger as possible…they know they cannot win a war with Israel, so instead they intentionally strive to maximise their own civilian deaths to try and win the PR war.

          • Chuck 14.1.2.1.1

            Yep spot on…Hamas knows exactly what they are doing.

            You need to take your blinkers off Paul.

            • Cinny 14.1.2.1.1.1

              You are so very very wrong Chuck on so many levels. It appears that mainstream media has brainwashed you

              • Macro

                I wonder if Chuck has ever read any unbiased history of the Israeli Palestinian conflict and the continuing injustices the people so subjugated have to suffer, and have suffered for nearly 7 decades.
                I wonder if Chuck has any conception of the matter when he blithely says that aid can be brought in by land when the strip is completely surrounded by Israel and the sea frontage is illegally blockaded as well!
                “The blockade has been criticized by UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC )[9] and other human rights organizations, a criticism that has been officially supported by United States administrations.[10] In June 2010 Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the humanitarian needs in the Hamas-controlled area must be met along with legitimate Israeli security concerns.[11]

                In September 2011, a UN Panel of Inquiry, assigned by UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, concluded in the Palmer Report that the naval blockade was legal, based on the right of self-defense during a period of war, and had to be judged isolated from the restrictions on goods reaching Gaza via the land crossings.[12][13] Concerning the restrictions on goods reaching Gaza via the land crossings the Palmer report stated that they were “a significant cause” of Gaza’s unsustainable and unacceptable humanitarian situation.[13][14][15] A Fact-Finding Mission for the UN Human Rights Council (2009) chaired by Richard Goldstone, a former judge of the International Criminal Court, as well as a group of five independent U.N. rights experts concluded that the blockade constituted collective punishment of the population of Gaza and was therefore unlawful.[16][17][18] UN envoy Desmond Tutu, United Nations Human Rights Council head Navi Pillay, the International Committee of the Red Cross and most experts on international law[19][20] consider the blockade illegal.[21][22][23][24][25]” my bold
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
                Furthermore – the International Law of the Sea states
                “The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea defines innocent passage as this: Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law.”
                As the boat head to Gaza carrying aid was not travelling to Israel the Israelian Navy carried out an act of Piracy in terms of The Law of the Sea, ( noting that they are not signatories!) along with other rogue states such as kazakhstan, Syria, and South Sudan).

                • Chuck

                  “The Egyptian government repeatedly stressed that it would like to normalize the opening of the border checkpoint. However, the continued impasse between the Al-Fatah dominated Palestinian Authority and Hamas has thus far prevented any progress in that regard.”

                  “Egyptian authorities frequently open the Rafah border crossing for humanitarian reasons. The administration of Egyptian President Abdel Fatah al-Sisi repeatedly stressed that Egypt would like to normalize the opening of the border crossing and plans to permanently open the border checkpoint were well underway last year.”

                  http://imemc.org/article/egypt-opens-rafah-border-crossing-to-gaza-for-three-days/

        • joe90 14.1.2.2

          Hamas making sure Palestinian civilians are put in as much danger as possible

          Gaza city has a population density of 9,982.69/km², greater Gaza is around half that and Auckland’s is 2,600/km2, so where the fuck are people going to go when the IDF drops the likes of white phosphorous on them?.

          https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/25/israel-white-phosphorus-gaza

          • Chuck 14.1.2.2.1

            You have answered your own question joe90…

            “so where the fuck are people going to go when the IDF drops the likes of white phosphorous on them?.”

            They have no where to go…so why do Hamas lunch attacks from such a densely populated area?

            The answer is – they do so knowing full well civilians will be hurt and killed by the IDF neutralising the Hamas military targets. Hamas count on TV showing civilian casualties, it is their best weapon against the “Jews”.

    • BG 14.2

      I think the left hate Israel because the US has keep them alive bacause every nation that surrounds them has a mandate for ‘the complete destruction of the State of Israel.’

      Therefore the old, ‘an enemy of my enemy, is my friend’ adage applies to Israel.

      • joe90 14.2.1

        Whereas the right loves Israel because their anti-Semitism demands that without Israel there will be no second coming, Jews won’t convert to christianity and the sky fairy won’t smoke the world with the day of judgement nonsense.

  14. Cinny 15

    I’m so very proud of Marama, massive kudos to her, a brave woman whom stands up for the rights of others. You are a STAR

    • Chuck 15.1

      Might pay to check out the company your hero Marama is keeping…

      http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/215153/a-look-inside-the-latest-gaza-womens-flotilla

      • Cinny 15.1.1

        It depends which tabloid one reads as to the view given Chuck… let’s check out the background of the link you supplied…

        Tablet is a daily online magazine of Jewish news, ideas, and culture

        http://www.tabletmag.com/about

        FYI it costs money to comment on their articles, isn’t that interesting..

        “Just in March, Princeton student Joshua Leifer wrote on Medium that: “Tablet Has A Politics Problem.”

        “Tablet uses its tolerant, liberal bent on issues of culture or lifestyle as a counterweight to its staunch, right-wing position on Israeli politics, hiding in plain sight an ideology far to the right of that of its readership. Tablet’s politics, though buried between stories about hamentaschen recipes and potentially Jewish celebrities, amount to justification and support for Israel’s illegal occupation and settlement of the West Bank.”

        http://observer.com/2014/09/hip-but-hawkish-tablet-lurches-rightward-during-gaza-israel-war/

        • Chuck 15.1.1.1

          Of course the website is pro Jewish…but its pretty easy to fact check the back ground of the people whom Marama has aligned herself and the NZ Green party with.

          And further up the thread you commented – “I spoke to Marama some time before she left and she was well aware of the likelihood of the boat being intercepted, but naturally hoped that that would not be the case, and that the aid they were bringing would get to where it was needed most.”

          Cinny are you aware that the boat had no aid supplies on it??

          “There was no aid on board. It may have even exacerbated the complex political dynamics between Fatah and Hamas,  contributing to the delay in the Palestinians building a democratic state with liberal values and civic society institutions.”

          http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/85075657/Paul-Moon-David-Cumin-and-Juliet-Moses-Flotilla-became-ship-of-fools

          • Cinny 15.1.1.1.1

            Dude get your facts straight I did not make the comment

            “I spoke to Marama some time before she left and she was well aware of the likelihood of the boat being intercepted, but naturally hoped that that would not be the case, and that the aid they were bringing would get to where it was needed most.”

            What is Aid? Is aid helping people? Yes it is.

            Your link is the opinion of 3 people, two of whom are members of the New Zealand Jewish Council, one would hardly expect them to be sympathetic of Palestine. Does the Herald ask for their opinion as well… probably not they’ve had fall out’s before with the NZ Jewish Council.

            Two of the women on board were journalists from Al Jazeera, let’s see what info they will share with us when they are able to, after all they were there.

            These are the women on board that leg of the journey

            https://wbg.freedomflotilla.org/participants-on-board-messina-to-gaza

  15. Observer Tokoroa 16

    .
    .Are the Palestinians Arabs?

    . I can understand Marama working as an activist here in New Zealand to rid us of the Maori crime rate. Thereby saving many lives, many drug addicts and much expense.

    But I cannot imagine why she would want to help the Palestinians when millions of Arabs have the means to assist the Palestinians.

    As a young person, Marama may not realise that the most hounded race in history is not the Palestinians, but the Jews. As a result of what Hitler and the major religions did to the Jews, they have become determined to defend themselves and not be annihilated by a bunch of unruly Arabs. Or by anyone else.

    Marama, avoiding the grievous problems here, has shamed us by letting Arab thugs off the hook whilst rubbishing the great Jewish Race.

    I believe her Party should send a letter of apology to the State of Israel.

    And by the way Marama, I believe the Jews have 23 Nobel Prize winners. Their contribution to the world is way way ahead of any other country.

    The Palestinians don’t contribute much at all. Do they?

    .

  16. Observer Tokoroa 17

    .
    .Double plus good, I dislike being accused of stupidity. But I understand you see no value in science. Lots of people do not understand learning and achieving. I do not think you are entitled to blame any race for keeping themselves alive.

    Cinny. No you don’t have to be selective about helping struggling nations. But you do have to lay the responsibility on the people who are causing the struggle. Don’t You?

    The Arabs have no intention of solving the problem, because they want the elimination of Infidels. as You well know.

    Many Arabs live and work in Israel. But you probably don’t want to know that. I think we should work to get our problems here fixed.

    We have massive problems here without telling other countries what to do. Shame eh?.

    .

    • Macro 17.1

      🙄

    • DoublePlusGood 17.2

      Thanks for totally missing my entire point that Arabs have along history of science, just like Jews. If you wish to avoid accusations of stupidity, you should think more before writing, and try and make your arguments coherent.

    • Cinny 17.3

      Sometimes those whom are causing the struggle just need to be educated. Brainwashed people make bizarre decisions. So do those affected by the pressures of loss, in the case of the Palestinians the loss of their homes, lands, lives, I’m sure they took responsibility for their actions when they could, the responsibility of protecting ones home and family.
      But then again sane people can refuse to take responsibility. Look at Judith and Serco.

      Wait up… whom created the struggle? The UN? Palestine? The British? Truman? Ben-Gurion? Moshe Sharett?
      Zionists created this mess to start with and don’t appear to be taking any responsibility for the land grab and deaths resulting from centuries of conflict perpetuated by religion. It’s fucken sad when you think about how much suffering there has been from both sides.
      Any offer of peace should not be a ‘let’s see how much I can get out of it’ kind of offer. Wanting the best for others is a trait that is sadly lacking in humanity. Maybe one day that will change.

      Yes we should get our problems sorted here, but the problem is the current government, who are not very good at taking responsibility for their actions

      All Palestinians are Arabs but not all Arabs are Palestinians.

      Marama has now been deported, looking forward to seeing her back in Parliament, she’s all shades of awesome.

      The fact that she went on the flotilla allowed the issues to be highlighted in the media, and here we all are discussing it. That should always happen, I’m over the media hoodwinking the public into being interested about rugby stars when there are much more important matters to be discussed.

      Parliament is back next week, I wonder what shit the media will spin to distract us from the goings on in the house on Tuesday.

  17. Observer Tokoroa 18

    .
    . Double Plus Good

    . I agree that some Arabs throughout their history have been excellent in many fields of endeavour. Most definitely.

    . Where do you think we should send Marama Davidson next ?

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    3 days ago
  • Submission on “Fast Track Approvals Bill”
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  • The Case for a Universal Family Benefit
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    3 days ago
  • A who’s who of New Zealand’s dodgiest companies
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    3 days ago
  • On Lee’s watch, Economic Development seems to be stuck on scoring points from promoting sporting e...
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    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand has never been closed for business
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    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Stop the panic – we’ve been here before
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    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Melissa Lee and the media: ending the quest
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    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to April 19
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    4 days ago
  • The ‘Humpty Dumpty’ end result of dismantling our environmental protections
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    4 days ago
  • Nicola's Salad Days.
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    4 days ago
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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 19-April-2024
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    4 days ago
  • Jack Vowles: Stop the panic – we’ve been here before
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    4 days ago
  • Clearing up confusion (or trying to)
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    4 days ago
  • How to Retrieve Deleted Call Log iPhone Without Computer
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    4 days ago
  • How to Factory Reset iPhone without Computer: A Comprehensive Guide to Restoring your Device
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    4 days ago
  • How to Call Someone on a Computer: A Guide to Voice and Video Communication in the Digital Age
    Gone are the days when communication was limited to landline phones and physical proximity. Today, computers have become powerful tools for connecting with people across the globe through voice and video calls. But with a plethora of applications and methods available, how to call someone on a computer might seem ...
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  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #16 2024
    Open access notables Glacial isostatic adjustment reduces past and future Arctic subsea permafrost, Creel et al., Nature Communications: Sea-level rise submerges terrestrial permafrost in the Arctic, turning it into subsea permafrost. Subsea permafrost underlies ~ 1.8 million km2 of Arctic continental shelf, with thicknesses in places exceeding 700 m. Sea-level variations over glacial-interglacial cycles control ...
    4 days ago

  • Justice Minister to attend Human Rights Council
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    9 hours ago
  • Patterson reopens world’s largest wool scouring facility
    Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
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    11 hours ago
  • Speech to the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective Summit, 18 April 2024
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    12 hours ago
  • Government to introduce revised Three Strikes law
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    12 hours ago
  • New diplomatic appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions.   “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says.    “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
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    12 hours ago
  • Humanitarian support for Ethiopia and Somalia
    New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today.   “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
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    12 hours ago
  • Arts Minister congratulates Mataaho Collective
    Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale.  “It is good ...
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    1 day ago
  • Supporting better financial outcomes for Kiwis
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    2 days ago
  • Trade relationship with China remains strong
    “China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says.   Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
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    2 days ago
  • PM’s South East Asia mission does the business
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • $41m to support clean energy in South East Asia
    New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
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    3 days ago
  • Minister releases Fast-track stakeholder list
    The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
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    3 days ago
  • Judicial appointments announced
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    3 days ago
  • Education Minister heads to major teaching summit in Singapore
    Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa.  The summit is co-hosted ...
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    4 days ago
  • Value of stopbank project proven during cyclone
    A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
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    4 days ago
  • Anzac commemorations, Türkiye relationship focus of visit
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul.    “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
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    4 days ago
  • Minister to Europe for OECD meeting, Anzac Day
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    4 days ago
  • Comprehensive Partnership the goal for NZ and the Philippines
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr.  The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
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    4 days ago
  • Government commits $20m to Westport flood protection
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    4 days ago
  • Taupō takes pole position
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    4 days ago
  • Cost of living support for low-income homeowners
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    4 days ago
  • Government backing mussel spat project
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    5 days ago
  • Government focused on getting people into work
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    5 days ago
  • Clean energy key driver to reducing emissions
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    5 days ago
  • Earthquake-prone buildings review brought forward
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    5 days ago
  • Thailand and NZ to agree to Strategic Partnership
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
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    5 days ago
  • Government consults on extending coastal permits for ports
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    5 days ago
  • Inflation coming down, but more work to do
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    6 days ago
  • School attendance restored as a priority in health advice
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    6 days ago
  • Unnecessary bureaucracy cut in oceans sector
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    6 days ago
  • Patterson promoting NZ’s wool sector at International Congress
    Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector.    "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
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    7 days ago
  • Removing red tape to help early learners thrive
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    7 days ago
  • RMA changes to cut coal mining consent red tape
    Changes to the Resource Management Act will align consenting for coal mining to other forms of mining to reduce barriers that are holding back economic development, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The inconsistent treatment of coal mining compared with other extractive activities is burdensome red tape that fails to acknowledge ...
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    7 days ago
  • McClay reaffirms strong NZ-China trade relationship
    Trade, Agriculture and Forestry Minister Todd McClay has concluded productive discussions with ministerial counterparts in Beijing today, in support of the New Zealand-China trade and economic relationship. “My meeting with Commerce Minister Wang Wentao reaffirmed the complementary nature of the bilateral trade relationship, with our Free Trade Agreement at its ...
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    7 days ago
  • Prime Minister Luxon acknowledges legacy of Singapore Prime Minister Lee
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon today paid tribute to Singapore’s outgoing Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong.   Meeting in Singapore today immediately before Prime Minister Lee announced he was stepping down, Prime Minister Luxon warmly acknowledged his counterpart’s almost twenty years as leader, and the enduring legacy he has left for Singapore and South East ...
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    1 week ago
  • PMs Luxon and Lee deepen Singapore-NZ ties
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. While in Singapore as part of his visit to South East Asia this week, Prime Minister Luxon also met with Singapore President Tharman Shanmugaratnam and will meet with Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.  During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon ...
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    1 week ago
  • Antarctica New Zealand Board appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has made further appointments to the Board of Antarctica New Zealand as part of a continued effort to ensure the Scott Base Redevelopment project is delivered in a cost-effective and efficient manner.  The Minister has appointed Neville Harris as a new member of the Board. Mr ...
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    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister travels to Washington DC
    Finance Minister Nicola Willis will travel to the United States on Tuesday to attend a meeting of the Five Finance Ministers group, with counterparts from Australia, the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.  “I am looking forward to meeting with our Five Finance partners on how we can work ...
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    1 week ago
  • Pet bonds a win/win for renters and landlords
    The coalition Government has today announced purrfect and pawsitive changes to the Residential Tenancies Act to give tenants with pets greater choice when looking for a rental property, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Pets are important members of many Kiwi families. It’s estimated that around 64 per cent of New ...
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    1 week ago
  • Long Tunnel for SH1 Wellington being considered
    State Highway 1 (SH1) through Wellington City is heavily congested at peak times and while planning continues on the duplicate Mt Victoria Tunnel and Basin Reserve project, the Government has also asked NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) to consider and provide advice on a Long Tunnel option, Transport Minister Simeon Brown ...
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    1 week ago

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