Dear David Shearer

Written By: - Date published: 8:51 am, October 14th, 2014 - 278 comments
Categories: david cunliffe, david shearer, labour, The Standard - Tags:

David Shearer fish

Suddenly I have some more independence.  Instead of people thinking I am some sort of mouthpiece I can just be myself and say what I think.

I would like to start with this new feeling of independence by saying to David Shearer that the thing that really drives activists wild is when our MPs say stupid things to the media that reinforce right wing narratives about the Labour Party.  Please do not do this.  If you feel the urge to do this please just be quiet.  The right will still use their framing but at least the effect will be reduced because people in our party will not be saying the same thing.

And another thing, going on Paul Henry’s show and talking to him about Labour’s internal politics is not a good thing to do.  He is not a friend of the party.  He is actually a real @#&*%^&+.  He does not have the party’s best interests in mind and any Labour MP getting an invite to appear on his show should decline the opportunity.  And yes I know that David Cunliffe appeared on his show.  The things we do …

And I am struggling with your comments in this morning’s Herald that the “current calls for a female or Maori deputy leader to balance out the white, middle-aged men running as leader was one sign of that obsession. “People are saying we’ll have a white bloke for a leader so we need a woman or Maori as deputy. No. We need the most competent person whether that’s woman or a man. That speaks a lot about the party.”

Well it does but only that the party thinks equality is important and its leadership should be representative.  Male female, white black, older younger, this presents an ideal partnership.  And dang but three of the most competent MPs we have are Carmel Sepuloni, Nanaia Mahuta and Poto Williams.  For instance Carmel not only won her seat but also increased the party vote.  Compared to the result in Mount Albert she did really well, extraordinarily well.  If you are looking for competence then there are plenty of female MPs to choose from.

And your comments on Morning Report this morning are, shall we say, unfortunate.  Note to David Shearer, the Standard has a very open policy on comments and sometimes people say things that are not very nice.  Criticism is not treachery.  And David Cunliffe did not undermine you.  A couple of fish being presented in Parliament was the coup de grace and Maryan Street is not a Cunliffe supporter.

And attacking David Cunliffe and then saying that the attacks need to stop brings to mind a word that starts with “h”.

I agree with the sentiment that Caucus needs to unite and move on.  Note to David Shearer, please do this.

278 comments on “Dear David Shearer ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. ianmac 1
    14 October 2014 at 9:03 am

    Hear Hear Micky and so say all of us!

    • wekarawshark 1.1
      14 October 2014 at 9:24 am

      Go micky!

      • the pigman 1.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 5:21 pm

        Agree 100% MS aside from the last paragraph. DS doesn’t need to unite and move on, his comments prove he’s incapable of it (other than in some puerile cabal with Goff/Cosgrove/Mallard/et al.). What he actually needs to do is GTFO. I sincerely hope Little is prepared to clean house for the good of the Party.

    • Saarbo 1.2
      14 October 2014 at 1:01 pm

      +1

      David Shearer – Incredibly dumb and hypocritical, not a political bone in his body. I think it was Chris Trotter who suggested that Shearer may be a right wing plant in Labour, you really have to ask that question seriously now.

      • Lorraine 1.2.1
        14 October 2014 at 1:39 pm

        Yes! The right wing must go. “Our man Shearer is doing a great job of turning people off the labour party. He opens his mouth and nasty hypocritical rubbish comes out.” The sooner he is dumped the better. He is not a “has been”, “he is a never was”. To compare falling pole ratings with election results is comparing apples and bananas. This guy is really dumb and labour would do well to kick him to the curb asap.

      • Chris 1.2.2
        14 October 2014 at 4:33 pm

        Remember that barbeque at hooton’s place after the last election, with the likes of the toxic odgers et al?

  2. Tom Gould 2
    14 October 2014 at 9:06 am

    I understand the recent post attacking Cosgrove was taken down following the intervention of the returning officer and if the author of this post is also a Labour Party member, then so should this one, to be consistent. Besides, it simply amplifies Shearer’s point.

    [lprent: No. I took my last post down because the policy had just been announced after I put the post up, and I was asked by Tim Barnett to do so. I thought it’d be a nice gesture to help kick the campaign off.

    David Shearer *deliberately* acted like a complete dickhead in a direct violation of that policy. That is a whole different ball game. Basically the idiot requires a muzzle.

    I think I may have to write one explaining exactly why I think that David Shearer is an inept fool as a politician. Looking at the abortion he has been making in Mt Albert as he steadily loses support… Grrr.

    ]

    [lprent: I have made part of my note invisible for the duration of the leadership vote rather than having it remain a cause for spurious complaint. Just for the record, in my opinion, it was both fully justified and I will probably blog about the reasons why it was justified after the vote ]

    • gobsmacked 2.1
      14 October 2014 at 9:13 am

      I dunno Tom, I think Morning Report, the Herald and Paul Henry have bigger audiences than “Micky Savage”.

      Basic problem: Shearer wants to talk, and blame, but not stand. Not helping.

      • Tom Gould 2.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 11:13 am

        My issue is about consistent adherence by Party members to the rules set down by the Party hierarchy. Saying ‘they all do it’ might have worked for Key over Dirty Politics, but I do not find it a convincing response, in this regard.

        [lprent: Tell you what. Lets start by expelling David Shearer – he is a party member? ]

    • karol 2.2
      14 October 2014 at 9:14 am

      Really? How does it amplify Shearer’s point, given Shearer did exactly the sort of thing he was complaining about.

      And Shearer, in bad-mouthing TS, gave a distorted view of it. He talked about anonymous people in front of darkened machines, criticising his leadership. Yet, Shearer must surely know exactly who micky savage is.

      • phillip ure 2.2.1
        14 October 2014 at 9:25 am

        ..@ karol..

        ..and as the author of some of the most trenchant-criticisms of the hapless shearer..

        ..i yam who i say i yam..

        ..and my ‘machine’ is bathed in light..eh..?..birds tweeting too..

        ..and were shearer something other than he is..

        ..then those quite valid critiques wd not have been his to own..

        • The Al1en 2.2.1.1
          14 October 2014 at 9:32 am

          Narcissist much?

          “At the core of extreme narcissism is egotistical preoccupation with self, personal preferences, aspirations, needs, success, and how he/she is perceived by others.”

          http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/08/04/how-to-spot-a-narcissist/

          As for Shearer, he’s confirmed he isn’t leader material, now he confirms he isn’t labour party material.
          Time to call up the UN and ask for a job, unless you’re just in it for the salary and air travel perks.

          • Chooky Shark Smile 2.2.1.1.1
            14 October 2014 at 9:59 am

            or time for another barbeque around at Hootons ….where John Key may offer him a more satisfying job, like he did for Jones

      • David H 2.2.2
        14 October 2014 at 9:44 am

        Most people just pointed out the truth. That Shearer was NOT the man for the job as he would have been useless in the debates. And I just have one word for Shearer. SNAPPER!

      • lprent 2.2.3
        14 October 2014 at 11:21 am

        He knows who I am.

      • Ron 2.2.4
        14 October 2014 at 12:02 pm

        I doubt Shearer has even seen The Standard. Maybe if someone could turn his computer on for him, he could get out into the real world and find out for himself.

        • Te Reo Putake 2.2.4.1
          14 October 2014 at 12:18 pm

          Ha! Computers aren’t the real world, Ron. But maybe I’m just programmed to think that.

    • Tracey 2.3
      14 October 2014 at 12:26 pm

      interestingly he didnt make this comment when many here were championing him for leader after Goff, me included.

    • Skinny 2.4
      14 October 2014 at 12:29 pm

      Tom it annoys me that Shearer and others bucks the rules. So I don’t mind commenting, worst that can happen is what a letter? Doubt very much the party knobs would kick me out, the principal of natural justice would see me knock them over i.e Good for the ‘goose’ …..etc.

  3. ankerawshark 3
    14 October 2014 at 9:11 am

    Hi Mickey, glad you feel you can comment more freely now. And very re-strained I might add.

    I thought the bit in the Herald article about Cunliffe standing so he could be beaten was extraordinary. Very presumptive that Cunliffe would be beaten.

    I know a lot of people have said they will now leave the Labour Party since DC has resigned. I am going to wait and see what Andrew Little does with DC. If he is leader and DC doesn’t get a very senior position. I don’t think I can stay. I wonder about a co-ordinated mass exodus?

    • AmaKiwi 3.1
      14 October 2014 at 9:19 am

      “I know a lot of people have said they will now leave the Labour Party since DC has resigned. I am going to wait and see what Andrew Little does with DC. ”

      I am waiting to see what Little does with Shearer. He is poison!

      • David H 3.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 9:55 am

        Talk about a backstabber. He blames who for his failures?? Maybe he should look in the mirror. There’s the reason for his failure as a leader, looking right back at him.

        • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1
          14 October 2014 at 10:52 am

          I think this NZ Herald piece was timed for Labour’s regular Tuesday morning caucus meeting. I bet arseholes like Shearer are currently in the process of kicking a downed man in the guts.

      • Ron 3.1.2
        14 October 2014 at 12:05 pm

        Dont leave the Party that is self defeating. We can sort things out at Conference if necessary.

  5. Te Reo Putake 5
    14 October 2014 at 9:14 am

    I guess David didn’t get Moira’s email.

    Talking about the leadership election process, our President asked this of us all:

    ” … it must be conducted in a spirit of respect and with the realisation that many from outside the Party are watching the process. This applies across mainstream and social media, our husting meetings, other Party meetings and the informal networks which we all have. The greater our discipline the stronger our foundation will be to unite behind the leader who is selected.”

    In the spirit of respect, I reckon it’s time for Shearer to go, for the good of the party.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1
      14 October 2014 at 9:36 am

      What, before he’s even had a chance to prove himself as a Minister? Yes, that sound like a good way to avoid a complete ego-driven clusterfuck.

    • left for deadshark 5.2
      14 October 2014 at 9:40 am

      T R P,Agreed.%100

    • Colonial Viper 5.3
      14 October 2014 at 11:01 am

      A cabal of ABC MPs successfully vetoing DC out of the leadership selection was giving a big ol’ finger to the membership and unions.

      Shearer here is doing more of the same, in the media. Telling the membership and unions that they can go get fucked.

      • Te Reo Putake 5.3.1
        14 October 2014 at 11:28 am

        As you know, CV, I’m not big on conspiracy theories, but I suspect Shearer has been given the nod to be the initial voice of the dinosaurs. I doubt he would go this far offside from Moira Coatsworth’s request for respect without backing. I expect Goff et al will chip in as well over the next few days, but on a more muted level. Something like ‘DS could have been more diplomatic, but on many levels he’s correct’. Or, ‘DC needs to realise the party has actually rejected him’.

        The really tricky bit for the centrist MP’s is working out who to support against Little. Robertson would be easier to manage, I suspect, so I expect coded support for him to also wibble out once the nominations close off tonight.

      • Chooky Shark Smile 5.3.2
        14 October 2014 at 12:50 pm

        +100 CV

    • Anne 5.4
      14 October 2014 at 12:11 pm

      I guess David didn’t get Moira’s email.

      Well, he’s got it now. Sent it to him this morning.

    • Graeme Stanley 5.5
      14 October 2014 at 12:42 pm

      Like many Grassroots activists I first joined the Labour Party in 1975 plus I think in The St Albans Electorate and have beavered away like hundreds of others to get successive Labour teams elected.I am gutted by the events since the election and wanted a proper analysis done by The Party of where we went wrong FIRST.. What I abhor is the bitter caucus attacks on David Cunliffe who was democratically selected to lead us. I don.t see the point of electing any leader whilst the likes of David Shearer can.t show party discipline asked of us ALL by The Party President. David Shearer for me blew his chance at leadership and wasted a lot of time whilst we should have been crucifying our National opponents just as we should be doing right now.We are a broadbased Party I acknowledge but don.t we really need the caucus to abide by Party Rules? OR .Is it time for Labour to Split up?Let David Shearer and friends form there own “Blokes Party” and let The Rest of Us tackle the real issues.Is there a UNIFYER out there or is this the end? Is Labour no longer the Party for Me I have begun to ask myself?

      • Molly 5.5.1
        14 October 2014 at 3:16 pm

        Had a similar themed conversation the other day with a friend.

        We were speaking of the lack of internal discipline of the Labour Party. She thought that the well-oiled machine of Dirty Politics and biased MSM was to blame. I agreed, but also added that there seemed to be no consensus within the party over direction, no effective party code of conduct, and too many leaks to the already biased MSM on internal matters. In essence, certain party members continued to feed the sharks (aka Whale) all the way through the campaign. That shows a decided lack of internal discipline.

        I felt that until this gets resolved, the Labour Party will continue to be subject to the whim of poll takers and complacent middlemen. We disagreed on how this could be achieved.

        From my perspective, David Cunliffe did not deserve the undermining from his own party during the election campaign, nor the immediate crucifixion by seemingly “delighted” caucus members. It does not bode well that the transparent leadership election last year, is being belittled and ignored by vocal members of Labour – as is shown by the fact that the leader that was chosen is belittled to the MSM by Labour members.

        To be honest, I didn’t vote Labour. Not left enough for me in its current form.

        Until they sort this lack of cohesiveness out, not only will they not win votes from National, they will continue to lose votes from Labour voters who don’t want to vote for such an inconsistent lot.

      • Wendigo Jane 5.5.2
        14 October 2014 at 8:25 pm

        Yeah, bring on the Bloke party – not. I joined Labour and went door-knocking before I was even old enough to vote. I am sick of hearing the words “special interest groups” and the example given = women. This is not what I campaigned for as a teenage girl. I just don’t think I can be bothered any more. The Greens and Maori party have their co-leader policy and no one is sneering. I was over Shearer after his beneficiary bashing “painting the roof” comment and now I am so mad I could slap his stupid face the next time I see him on the Quay (could, not will). Like many people I cannot comment other than anonymously for work reasons, but will happily give him my name and my opinion in person if I ever see him.

        As for the “darkened screen” comment – also beyond pathetic. Think he meant “darkened room” but like many of the males of his cohort he can’t even express himself clearly – yet he claims they’re all there on merit. Totally over it – totally, totally over it, and while I was colossally disappointed in Cunliffe I did think the apology for being a man (the intention of which was completely twisted and deliberately misrepresented) was one of the best things he did. To all you men out there who think you can rely on women’s support and votes energy while slagging off feminism and insisting women’s issues are “special interest” and of no relevance to some imaginary real Labour – I’m not hanging around if you get your way, I’m tired of your braying and I really, really hope other women will leave the party too.

      • mickysavage 5.5.3
        14 October 2014 at 9:31 pm

        Kia ora Graeme.

  6. marie 6
    14 October 2014 at 9:14 am

    I completely and utterly agree Mickey.

    I will not help with David’s campaign in 2017, despite living in his electorate. He is actively damaging Labour and I will not help someone who is obviously choosing to do this.

    The more people that give him this message the better.

    It’s time MPs like him started to think about the people they are supposed to be serving instead of fuelling the right wing media fire.

    • BeeJay 6.1
      15 October 2014 at 2:16 am

      Shearer-the-shocker …
      I say, give him the dump – right now !
      His “foot-in-mouth” disease knows no end, consistently bringing the Party into disrepute. And bringing the Party into disrepute is a sackable offense, is it not ?
      We can hardly afford to have this fool hang around until 2017.
      Better still, would save us all a lot of time and effort if he decides to jump before he’s pushed.

  7. gobsmacked 7
    14 October 2014 at 9:16 am

    Fair points, MickyS. And from my darkened room, I would just add –

    Dear David (S), there’s a very simple reason you’re not running for leader, and it has nothing at all to do with David Cunliffe.

    You wouldn’t get the votes, because any one of the other three would be better at the job. Better accept your own limitations than shift the blame to others.

    Or, you know, test your support.

  8. Addington Leftie 8
    14 October 2014 at 9:18 am

    I wish Labour had some of the discipline National has and keep their conflicts in house. Shearer need look no further than the ghastly Pagani’s for his failure as Labour leader. I thought highly of Shearer til he took advice their to get stuck into beneficiaries and was glad to see him go.

  9. karol 9
    14 October 2014 at 9:19 am

    Shearer said that the leadership should be won by the best person for the job. What if Cunliffe still is the best person within the Labour caucus for the job, but he cannot do it while he is undermined by that special interest group within the caucus, know as the ABCs?

    Or what if there is no suitable person for the leadership within the current caucus? What if the best person cannot get elected to Labour because there are too many unsuitable people that need to be cleared out of caucus?

    • Chris 9.1
      14 October 2014 at 9:39 am

      Shearer’s performance with henry last night was enough for me to want him gone. He’s become a liability. Who was it from Labour who launched into Cunliffe the day after the election? When Shearer became leader people wanted to him the benefit of the doubt over his hopeless communication skills saying he’d grow into the job. The shit that came out of his mouth last night made me realise he’s just not up to it. After last night I don’t even want him as foreign minister.

    • David H 9.2
      14 October 2014 at 9:58 am

      Looks like the voters will have let them know.

    • Ron 9.3
      14 October 2014 at 12:37 pm

      Easy answer, we find a bunny from outside preferably one who is not even a member. Quick sign up to make them member, and parachute them into a nice safe seat and make them leader.
      Now where could we find a nice safe seat. Ummmm how about Mt Albert, bound to be available soon

      Or what if there is no suitable person for the leadership within the current caucus? What if the best person cannot get elected to Labour because there are too many unsuitable people that need to be cleared out of caucus?

    • Daveinireland 9.4
      14 October 2014 at 12:42 pm

      In Cunliffe is still the right answer, then the Labour Party is not asking the right questions.

    • kenny 9.5
      14 October 2014 at 2:53 pm

      My thinking too Karol. Like John Key said on Q&A on Sunday, the problem with the leader is less important than sorting the party out. Labour needs to re-define and re-align with the people, but most of all it needs to somehow get rid of the ABCer’s in caucus, not because they are anti-Cunliffe but because they are ant-Labour. On reflection I think the best person able to do this would be Andrew Little; I know he is not the ideal person but I feel he is the one who can sort this mess out. I can’t see anyone else who could do it, but I don’t think he can possibly win in 2017 unless Labour bases it’s campaign on well presented, clear policies so that the personality of the leaders means less.

      What to do about the MSM though……? How do we deal with them?

  10. Not a PS Shark Sashimi 10
    14 October 2014 at 9:19 am

    Shearer about to come onto to Radio Live Sean Plunkett show.

    • left for deadshark 10.1
      14 October 2014 at 9:47 am

      right now

      • gobsmacked 10.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 9:54 am

        Shearer happily accepts Plunkett’s framing, negative all the way.

        What Shearer really wants is a job as political commentator.

        Edit: interview finished, and not a single word about policy, principles, anything except …. “wah wahh, me me”. Pathetic.

        • Not a PS Shark Sashimi 10.1.1.1
          14 October 2014 at 10:52 am

          Yep, Gobsmacked

          Plunketts questions were very leading and Shearer willingly lapped them up.

          Shearer possesses absolutely no style, class, dignity forgiveness or decency.

          It is a massive fall from grace for someone who had a safe seat and the party leadership haded to him on a silk lined silverplate.

          Shearer proves that people never understand the value of something that they received too easily.

  11. Craig Glen Eden 11
    14 October 2014 at 9:21 am

    I cannot believe David Shearers actions/statements in the Herald today. His hatred directed towards David Cunliffeis shame full and bring’s the Labour Party into disrepute publicly should not have to be tolerated. What this show’s to me is a man who is deeply troubled its time I believe for him to take his own advice and move on.

    • David H 11.1
      14 October 2014 at 10:02 am

      So now we know who’s been doing the White Anting, media leaking, and election sabotaging. See if you wait long enough even the most hidden rat will have a look around for new opportunities.

      • aerobubble 11.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 1:20 pm

        Shearer should be feeling the heat from his constituency party committee, but then I thought, maybe Labour doesn’t have them.

  12. westiechick 12
    14 October 2014 at 9:27 am

    I thought Shearer’s comments were bizarre. I had no particular opinion of him when he became leader but as a patriot, was desperate for Labour to do well. No one conspired to make him bumbling and inarticulate but my heart sank further with every bumbled, muffled fluggit session. I longed for an articulate person, with principles and political experience to be speaking for us. In the end we got him and then had to watch as the media, the ABCs and the dirty politics gang destroyed him. I’m not sitting in a trench coat in front of a darkened screen. The Standard is not a conspiracy – just a welcome outlet for the expression of views. Leaders that command respect will not be undermined by this.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 12.1
      14 October 2014 at 9:38 am

      +1

      Captain Mumblefuck convinced me to vote Green.

    • framu 12.2
      14 October 2014 at 10:06 am

      ” The Standard is not a conspiracy – just a welcome outlet for the expression of views. Leaders that command respect will not be undermined by this.”

      mods – can we get that as a mast head for the whole site for a bit?

      • David H 12.2.1
        14 October 2014 at 11:08 am

        ” The Standard is not a conspiracy – just a welcome outlet for the expression of views. Leaders that command respect will not be undermined by this.”

        To be honest that is a very good description of the Standard, and all it’s contributors

    • Chooky Shark Smile 12.3
      14 October 2014 at 10:08 am

      +100 westiechick “The Standard is not a conspiracy – just a welcome outlet for the expression of views. Leaders that command respect will not be undermined by this.”

      ….you might add to this that journalists and radio stations and the msm who are doing their job …should also not feel undermined by The Standard or any other left wing blog…but clearly they do….because they are right wing infiltrated and biased….and no longer are able to ask hard or probing questions

      …too many barbeques with Hooton?

    • ankerawshark 12.4
      14 October 2014 at 11:04 am

      I too Westie Chick was quite enthusiastic about David S cause of his back story. I had back David C could of his competence as a minister and being articulate etc, etc etc.

      I attended a agm that Shearer spoke at. It was embarrassing. And a little comment that came out of his mouth at the end was “I want to win”…………..It was kind of cringe worthy.

      I have email Moira C about an earlier media appearance for Shearer. I think now time to do the formal complaint.

      And of course there is never ever any specifics about DC supposed flaws. Just he’s divisive…………………..well hello Mr Shearer………….take a look in the mirror.

    • Sylvan 12.5
      14 October 2014 at 8:10 pm

      +1 westiechick

      Unbelievable “front”stabbing by Shearer has confirmed he has no loyalty and political understanding, and unless the Labour party re-affirms its commitment to progressive left wing values, including feminism, I will not vote for them again.

    • mickysavage 12.6
      14 October 2014 at 9:34 pm

      I think we have found new open mike text …

  13. Blue 13
    14 October 2014 at 9:27 am

    Shearer is an unbelievable fucking shithead. I cannot believe the arrogance of this idiot. Who the hell does he think he is? David Cunliffe was installed as leader by the members and the unions, as their choice. He is the leader that we wanted. Shearer is not. He’s the wanker who had the astounding hubris to think he was capable of leading the party after not even being in Parliament a full term and he made a complete fucking mess of it.

    He’s only in Parliament because he was gifted Helen Clark’s old seat. He couldn’t win a seat on his own. He has said the most horribly disloyal things both on The Nation and in the Herald today. He needs to go.

    I don’t want this moron in my party.

    • the sharkman 13.1
      14 October 2014 at 7:53 pm

      +1 Blue. It would be great if anyone had a little time to aggregate his media since the election (links to TV interviews, radio interview with Plunket, paper comment) and present it as a formal complaint to the Party hierarchy.

  14. Jan 14
    14 October 2014 at 9:37 am

    In the process of writing strongly worded letter to Coatsworth over double standard of telling us to mind our p’s and q’s and letting Shearer get away with his b…..disgusting disgraceful attacks on Cunliffe and the party as a whole. O’Connor was berated and almost expelled for less than this, the only right wing entity Shearer hasnt graced with his offensive attacks is Hosking, does the man have no sense at ll ?

    • Olwyn 14.1
      14 October 2014 at 10:42 am

      The people associated with, or approved by, the ABC group seem to be free to act with total impunity. Is an official spokesperson likely to come out and forthrightly distance themselves from Shearer’s remarks? Most unlikely. In a similar vein, the continuous leaking and undermining goes unpunished. It makes me think that this lot must have some powerful backers that are not to be messed with.

      Not long ago, Chris Carter, an ex government minister, was dragged before cameras to apologise to NZ for buying a bunch of flowers on his work credit card, like a school boy singled out at assembly for drawing a penis on a blackboard. He was then expelled from the party for an inept, anger-driven attempt to trigger a change of leadership. It is unimaginable that anyone from Goff/Shearer’s side of the fence would be treated in this way, whatever they did.

      • ankerawshark 14.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 11:08 am

        Yeah where is the “neutral” interim Parker, who said this would be a seemly process.

  15. Skinny 15
    14 October 2014 at 9:39 am

    Looked Shearer in the eye as I boarded the same flight to Wellington. He could tell it was a look of disgust, felt like having a crack at the bumbling fool, however choose to ignore him instead.
    Ran into DC coming out of the Wellington airport, had a quick word and said hang in there the party need you and your too good not to come back! He smiled at that 🙂 Bloody great stuff.

    • left for deadshark 15.1
      14 October 2014 at 10:08 am

      Good man Skinny,I’ve only ever broken bones, playing this game,but, we need to form a scrum around OUR party machine,An drive home our thoughts as party members,it’s our Democratic right.If your not a labour party member,please join.It’s about the numbers .

    • Chooky Shark Smile 15.2
      14 October 2014 at 10:13 am

      good on you….and good to hear that Cunliffe is in good heart

    • bearded rawshark 15.3
      14 October 2014 at 10:37 am

      nice one skinny. I wonder if Little has done a deal with him (cunliffe) along,the lines of Brown/Blair?

      • Skinny 15.3.1
        14 October 2014 at 11:29 am

        I would imagine so, Little is smart enough knowing he needs attack dogs around him. Major changes need to be made (I can’t believe this is still being said) most punters here know what that means.

        • bearded rawshark 15.3.1.1
          14 October 2014 at 12:24 pm

          yep we know who you mean skinny….it’s all that time spent in dark rooms….

  16. Chris 16
    14 October 2014 at 9:41 am

    I’d add Louisa Wall to your list of competent MPs.

  17. Chooky Shark Smile 17
    14 October 2014 at 9:41 am

    On Morning Report Shearer had open slather: ( no challenges from the hapless ‘journalists’)

    ……Shearer said that Cunliffe undermined both him and Goff ( NO!)

    …..Shearer also mentioned Left wing blogs ( well those political observers of Shearer debated and reported what they saw on the Left blogs…but the debates were free and open ended ( unlike the msm) …and sadly they were stating the obvious

    the fact of the matter is that it was patently obvious to every new Zealander and especially Labour Party voters ( who dont read left wing blogs and who incidentally originally supported Shearer) that he was hopelessly inexperienced and inarticulate as leader!

    Methinks Shearer is feeling guilty for the bullying and undermining of David Cunliffe by caucus

    …so now Shearer, with the unchallenged airing of radionz , is leading the attack on Left wing blogs for OPEN DEBATE and stating the obvious

    …perhaps Left wing blogs with their OPEN DEBATE are now being perceived as a threat by radionz as well as Shearer

  18. venezia 18
    14 October 2014 at 9:44 am

    Shearers public comments on The Nation, and this morning on Morning Report are unbelievable! My response to him is that when he was leader he was elected by the caucus only, he did not measure up through his own behaviour. He took bad advice, was inexperienced, off track (bagging beneficiaries), fumbling and a disaster on TV. Cunliffe was elected through a democratic process and has acquitted himself well in the face of disgusting smears, and orchestrated MSM ongoing attacks. Clearly Shearer has had a seething resentment of being dumped as leader. God knows for how long he has been part of the attacks on Cunliffe behind the scenes. Get over it David Shearer or get out of the party.

  19. One Anonymous Bloke 19
    14 October 2014 at 9:46 am

    Interesting that Captain Mumblefuck is suddenly articulate and direct now he’s got an axe to grind.

  20. just saying 20
    14 October 2014 at 9:47 am

    Hi David Shearer,
    First a techincal point from your comment about people like me who have strongly criticised you in comments on this blog.

    .. but these are people who sit behind darkened screens and blog and undermine people.

    I don’t know about you, but in the dark, I can’t see the keyboard. And if it’s my screen that’s dark, well that means my computer is turned off or munted, and either way I can’t comment.

    Technicalities aside though, It astonishes me that you and your ilk just don’t get democracy. Maybe this is wilful, I honestly don’t know. I’m a citizen you are employed by people like me as a representative in parliament. You are accountable to us. We have a right to express our opinions about your actions in this role. Some might say there is a degree of responsibility, if we sit back and shut up and do as we’re told, maybe to some extent we deserve to be disregarded. That’s debatable.

    Anyway, you clearly favour the “benign dictatorship” model of governance. Of keeping peasants like me in the dark and fed on a carefully managed diet of bullshit, well away from important matters of state that are far above our station and our competencies. It must be hugely frustrating for you that we won’t just stfu and leave the decisions and management to intellectual and moral giants like your good self.

    Obviously I have “issues” with your apparent attitude.
    First, I’m a democrat and this land is still (nominally at the very least) a democracy.
    And secondly, it is my opinion, based on observing your actions and reading and listening to what you have said that you are not benign, moral or intelligent.

  21. Dont worry. Be happy 21
    14 October 2014 at 9:49 am

    Shearer is now and always has been a plant.

  22. wekarawshark 22
    14 October 2014 at 9:52 am

    In the RNZ piece, Shearer says it’s the Leader that chooses which MPs get senior positions within cabinet. Is that true? Because members here have been saying it’s a caucus decision (someone last night gave the example of Lange firing Douglas and caucus reinstating him). Is Shearer lying? Or is it not cut and dried?

    • gobsmacked 22.1
      14 October 2014 at 9:58 am

      Caucus elects the members, the leader allocates the portfolios.

      • wekarawshark 22.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 10:04 am

        how does that work? Caucus decides they need x number of MPs in cabinet, so they elect which x they want without connecting them to a portfolio and then the leader assigns them the portfolios? That doesn’t make sense.

  23. Here 23
    14 October 2014 at 9:55 am

    Wow, I’m stunned by the aggression and hatred being doled out here for David Shearer. I guess politics, like religion, mobilizes our deepest sentiments, loyalties, passions. Shearer is hated. Cunliffe is hated.

    Shearer has been the most honest, courageous and refreshing off all the post-election voices. Perhaps he needs to be killed off now, and symbolically he has done so, so that the message he has been holding and voicing has a chance.

    To govern again Labour need the support of NZers who haven’t voted for the party for 6 years, possibly more. In other words, Labour needs a leader who can appeal to (current) ‘National voters’.

    The leadership race is pretty stupid as is currently set up. Candidates scramble to win over a membership and union base that doesn’t really represent the centre ground anymore. The Labour party no longer looks like the people it longs to win over, the people whose support it needs. The party has to broaden.

    In the meantime, it/we’ve/you’ve/I’ve got to choose a leader who may not suck up to the (party) voting membership, but one who has the courage and best chance of growing Labour beyond itself.

    • wekarawshark 23.1
      14 October 2014 at 10:06 am

      Did you just say that the Labour membership are wrong for the party? Should they leave?

      • BM 23.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 10:16 am

        I think what he/she’s saying is that the Labour membership doesn’t reflect the 604,535 people who voted Labour.

        How big is the labour party membership, 1-2% of the labour vote.?.

        Seems to be an awful lot of power being placed in the hands of that 1-2%.

        It’s also probably the point Shearer is trying to make, the membership is only a fraction of the labour vote yet thinks it has the right to wield all this power and dictate which direction the labour party goes.

        • wekarawshark 23.1.1.1
          14 October 2014 at 10:25 am

          rofl. Ok, so the membership should let Shearer and co decide what Labour is and what Labour does, once the knives are cleaned and put away of course. Why bother having a membership at all?

          • srylands 23.1.1.1.1
            14 October 2014 at 10:48 am

            History shows that the dead hand of party membership tends to produce poor public policy. I can’t think of any examples where advances in public policy in Westminster democracies have been driven by party memberships of the governing party. The Australian Labor Party Government in 1983, the New Zealand Government in 1984, and the Thatcher Government in 1979 all launched major reform programmes driven by strong Prime Ministers and/or Finance Ministers. The legacies of all these governments remain.

            The members of the Labour caucus are elected. Of course they should be able to choose the leader, and determine policies. If they cannot do that, the current chaos will continue. Permanent Opposition.

            • gobsmacked 23.1.1.1.1.1
              14 October 2014 at 10:55 am

              if it’s permanent opposition, why are there parties around the world who are in government?

              Britain’s Tories, Germany’s CDU, there’s a long list of right-leaning parties who extend their leadership election beyond the caucus.

            • ankerawshark 23.1.1.1.1.2
              14 October 2014 at 11:15 am

              The members such as myself what a say in the leadership because we were badly betrayed by Roger Douglas.

              And caucus made a god awful choice when the chose Shearer and this is now becoming blatantly obvious.

              If you don’t like how Labour do things how about you join up, pay your subs, roll up your sleeves and lobby for change.

        • gobsmacked 23.1.1.2
          14 October 2014 at 10:28 am

          @BM

          As in nearly every other political party, all over the globe.

          Words to Google … Primaries, Conferences, Conventions, etc. Learn how it’s done.

        • framu 23.1.1.3
          14 October 2014 at 10:34 am

          which makes the caucus what %?

          • BM 23.1.1.3.1
            14 October 2014 at 10:39 am

            I’m just saying if you want to win you need to pitch at the 600,000 not just the 6000.

            • Here 23.1.1.3.1.1
              14 October 2014 at 10:43 am

              I agree with BM, but it’s not just about pitching it at the people who voted Labour – most of whom, as BM says, are not members. It’s about pitching to people who didn’t vote Labour at all, but for whom Labour’s policies have the potential to make a huge difference in their lives. But Shearer is right – these people were simply ‘not listening’ last election. Something about Labour turned them off even ‘going there’.

              • gobsmacked …
                14 October 2014 at 10:47 am

                But he hasn’t – and you and BM haven’t – mentioned a single. policy or concrete issue.

                If Shearer said scrap the CGT or paid parental leave or anything at all – then we’d have something to debate. But he hasn’t. He’s just uttered total truisms … Labour need more votes.

                Well, duh.

                • BM …
                  14 October 2014 at 10:55 am

                  It’s not so much the policies

                  It’s the identity politics, the gender quotas, the racial quotas, the sorry for having external genitalia nonsense, the shame of being a paheka oppressor bullshit.

                  All this stuff is membership driven and it’s killing the labour party.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke …
                    14 October 2014 at 2:41 pm

                    At any given time, BM can be found arguing that the “problem” with the NZLP is anything from who the leader is to economic policies to minor law changes in regard to basic human rights.

                    Get a grip BM, you don’t like Left wing policies because you have a right wing brain. The only way Labour can appeal to you is to become National.

                • Here …
                  14 October 2014 at 11:44 am

                  Dear gobsmacked,

                  I hear your desire to debate policy. But there’s an important step before that. I too was ‘gobsmacked’ when I found out how few people I come into contact with – at my workplaces – knew anything about Labour policies. This was prior to the election. Without trying to sound like a Mormon, I gently told them about paid parental leave, CGT, affordable housing policies etc. On the whole, they really liked the policies, they just didn’t like or trust Labour.

                  • gobsmacked …
                    14 October 2014 at 11:51 am

                    “On the whole, they really liked the policies, they just didn’t like or trust Labour.”

                    Agreed, and polling on policies supports that.

                    So, why don’t they like Labour? I’d suggest it’s six years of self-indulgent behavior by the caucus, petty divisions, and generally a gift to Key’s line of “Well, if they can’t run themselves …”.

                    Shearer has played his part in that, and it is disingenuous of him to pretend otherwise. He should be saying “I stuffed up, we stuffed up”. But he can’t because he doesn’t think so.

                    Voters despise politicians in general, and Labour MPs behaving like Shearer are giving them a reason to.

              • aerobubble …
                14 October 2014 at 2:09 pm

                Rubbish. Sure Labour could have done a whole lot better at communicating. Goff, did not but still got within 10,000 votes.

                No, what happened was National underfunded news. Editors in order to attract viewers to mainstream TV free to air, went glitzy. Disorganized and shallow, was the revamp of seven sharp, and set the stage, inadvertently (i hope). For the rise of a wall of noise. Dotcom, Hager, Collins, coupled with the long lead into the election due to Key calling it so early. Its was as if the whole game in town was to drown out the democratic process, set the tone, set the frame of countless voices, aka three seven sharp presenters. Add on to the nonsensical spewer of Henry, and you have a rather, at best poor media coverage, at worst a media coup of an election.

                Given that with the glitz can attract high salaries, and Key tax cuts would have most impacted the huge salaries of media presenters whose income is a income cheque without the many tax avoiding means others can employ. Who of all people are most like to favor Key, but the high personalities of Henry, etc.

                So Labour lost, in the media, in its own presentation, its core message was drown, and maybe it would have been far worse for Labour had it gotten wider coverage.

              • lebleaux …
                14 October 2014 at 7:26 pm

                This is Labour’s problem in a nutshell. You guys remain in denial. People WERE listening in the last election, they simply did not like what they heard. Labour got its message across quite well … it just has the wrong message for New Zealand today.

            • wekarawshark 23.1.1.3.1.2
              14 October 2014 at 10:47 am

              So why be Labour at all? Why not be the David Shearer party? Don’t bother about all that labour movement stuff, or principles. Just pick a brand, do some market research, pick a brand, make up some policies to suit the brand, and then run the party via a PR company. See, you don’t even need members.

              • s y d …
                14 October 2014 at 11:38 am

                ah, Stu Nash already looked into that, but Lusk said it wasn’t a goer – better to use the husk of labour….

                • weka …
                  14 October 2014 at 5:34 pm

                  True. The problem with starting a new party is it leaves Labour still in existenceand the possibility of the left rising.

            • framu 23.1.1.3.1.3
              14 October 2014 at 12:14 pm

              i know what your saying – just pointing out a big ol hole in the logic

              “I’m just saying if you want to win you need to pitch at the 600,000 not just the 6000.” – or the 60 or 6 or however many are in labour caucus these days

        • swordfish 23.1.1.4
          14 October 2014 at 10:49 am

          @ BM
          “I think what he/she’s saying is that the Labour membership doesn’t reflect the 604,535 people who voted Labour.”

          You seem to be implying that Labour’s 2014 voters are, collectively, well to the Right of the membership, that the Party’s voters are, in effect, ‘Centrists’ if not mildly ‘Centre-Right’.

          Well, in 2011, when Labour’s support-base was arguably a little more ideologically diverse (because larger) than it is now, the New Zealand Election Study found that – on a Left/Right scale of 0 (Far Left) to 10 (Far Right), Labour voters averaged 4.2, only slightly to the Right of Green and Mana supporters. Respondents, meanwhile, felt National was on 7.2.

          In other words, not only were Labour voters very similar to Green and Mana voters in their broad ideological outlook, but they also conceived National as being a significant 3 points to the Right of their own position.

        • left for deadshark 23.1.1.5
          14 October 2014 at 11:14 am

          Thats why it’s called….The Labour PARTY .they could join.

      • Here 23.1.2
        14 October 2014 at 10:26 am

        No, I didn’t say that. The next leader – whether Andrew, David, or Grant – needs to do two things, electorally speaking. (1) Represent faithful Labour supporters, (2) Reach out to voters who didn’t vote Labour, and actually who haven’t voted Labour for a long, long time.

        I take it as read all three contenders are faithful Labour people. I don’t think anyone could doubt that, in terms of Andrew, David, or Grant. (If Stuart had been in the running, then perhaps…). These guys have high integrity from a faithful Labour perspective.

        So the question is, while representing faithful Labour, who can grow the party, who can reach out to people who don’t currently identify with Labour and haven’t for a long time? Who can reach out to people who currently vote National? That’s the bottom line I’m afraid. People who John Key et al attracted away from Labour. Now call this group whatever you like, the point is that this group are high unlikely to become involve in political activism, to be a member of a political party, to be a member of a union etc. The way we currently elect Labour leaders isn’t set up to support this ‘double vision’ that Labour party members, MPs, and union affiliates must adopt in choosing a leader that can chomp into National’s current voter support.

        • wekarawshark 23.1.2.1
          14 October 2014 at 10:52 am

          What evidence do you have that most of Labour’s previous voters now vote National? (as opposed to being part of the non-vote).

          The big problem with your theory is that you can’t attract National voters without pissing off core voters.

          I’m guessing you are still thinking that Labour should be a big party. This is MMP, the GP have a permanent place on the left now, Labour will never again govern alone. This last election was close. It only looks bad if you think that Labour should be the be all and end all of a left wing govt. If you look at the left at a block it actually did quite well. With a few more smarts on the left, working together it’s possible to represent those who are wanting a fair society but who feel left out of Labour’s current middle class vision.

          btw, Shearer on RNZ went on about the people who aren’t being represented by Labour and how this means going to the middle. What about the people who are the most vulnerable in NZ, who is going to represent them? Because Shearer’s vision for Labour directly excludes them/

          • Here 23.1.2.1.1
            14 October 2014 at 11:16 am

            Dear Wekarawshark,

            “What evidence do you have that most of Labour’s previous voters now vote National? (as opposed to being part of the non-vote).”

            This needs more exploring, yes. I am assuming that National’s high 40s didn’t come from the demise of ACT or from ‘non-voters’. I’m assuming it came from people who once voted Labour (for 6 years or so). Every voter Labour attracts away from National adds one to Labour and takes one away from National – the gap diminishes much, much quicker.

            “The big problem with your theory is that you can’t attract National voters without pissing off core voters.”

            I absolutely disagree with your statement. To believe this is political suicide. But you’ve hit the nail on the head. Of course we’re not talking about ‘National voters’ in the die hard, right wing sense. The reason why John Key is so successful is he (appears) so moderate to many NZers. They vote for him in their sleep, without really feeling ‘political’ at all. This, actually, is the main task awaiting Grant, Andrew or David – how do you attract National voters without pissing off core Labour voters. The Labour leader who can do this is the one we need to vote for.

            I absolutely agree with you that the left needs to work smarter. The right are better at MMP elections, currently. Auckland Central, Ohariu, and Christchurch Central could have gone Labour if Labour and Green voters had coordinated their electorate vote.

            • weka 23.1.2.1.1.1
              14 October 2014 at 5:39 pm

              Your maths is wrong. You have to factor in the non vote if you want to under stand. It’s the percentage of enrolled voters you need to look at not percentage of actual voters. Will dig up the visual when I’m back on the laptop.

              • wekarawshark …
                14 October 2014 at 7:13 pm

                Here you go. Actual %s including non-vote

                http://imgur.com/BKvIGZU

                As you can see the left and right blocks are not too far apart, it’s the non-vote that is striking. If you want to know where Labour’s voters went, they’re there.

                Of course, there will always be swing voters, but you can’t base a party on them because by definition they’re going to only vote for you sometimes. This doesn’t mean you ignore them, but if you chase them at the expense of your core principles, you’re not going to build effective change. Which is my point. If the most important thing is winning and bugger the principles, what’s the point of Labour even existing?

                • Here …
                  15 October 2014 at 8:12 pm

                  Wow, isn’t that crazy. And troubling. Great image, thanks.

                  1. We’re trading opinions here: i.e. what happened to voters you used to vote Labour into government. I think it’s pretty clear that National’s fattened results for the last two elections are clearly taken from Labour.
                  2. No, of course you can’t base your party on ‘swing voters’. But someone on the left block needs to appeal to them to be in government (and continually in govt).
                  3. I hate numbering points like this.
                  4. The missing million have been missing for many years now. I thought Internet Mana and the Greens were best placed to mobilize this group – nada. So let’s get real unless we want to be in opposition for many more terms: this can’t be the only, or even the primary, strategy for ousting National.
                  4. For all of Labour’s pathetic showing, there wasn’t much in this election in the end. I still maintain that if Labour and the Greens had been smarter they could stolen the election (got Auckland Central, Ohariu, and ChCh Central). Yes, that was Labour’s strategic fault, their decision to not work closer with the Greens.
                  5. I guess so much of this debate on The Standard and elsewhere comes down to differing visions of the Labour party. Anyway, “The Left Block” in NZ politics at least needs a Centre-Left party to organize and mobilize voters . That is not the Greens. God help us if it’s NZ First.

          • Tracey 23.1.2.1.2
            14 October 2014 at 2:52 pm

            1-2% comes from ACT

        • Colonial Viper 23.1.2.2
          14 October 2014 at 11:09 am

          Here: Shearer has fucked his future in the Labour Party. What part of that do you not understand.

          • AmaKiwi 23.1.2.2.1
            14 October 2014 at 12:41 pm

            The ABC gang decided Shearer had served his usefulness for their careers so they told him it was a great idea to publicly “clear the air.”

            Goodbye, Captain Mumblefuck. But the conspirators remain.

        • left for deadshark 23.1.2.3
          14 October 2014 at 11:34 am

          Bollocks ,Nactional normally attain about 40 odd %,but as they saying goes(,higher the monkey climbs,the more backside it offers)not pretty, but they do fall out of the tree in the end.Labour would do better,trying to win back the one million odd voters turned off…This of course is at here

          • Here 23.1.2.3.1
            14 October 2014 at 11:57 am

            Dear left for dead shark,

            We obviously differ on National’s vote. Ok. As for the missing million – Labour, presumably, have tried to mobilize this ‘group’ (if they are a homogenous group) for the past 6 years. Presumably, Internet Mana and Greens have tried to too, and no turkey.

            Again, does it have to be one or the other – the poor and dispossessed/te pani me te rawakore versus Middle New Zealand?

            Surely our hearts and movement is big enough for both?

            • Colonial Viper 23.1.2.3.1.1
              14 October 2014 at 12:00 pm

              Bullshit.

              The majority of Middle NZ (ie the top 20%) don’t give a fuck for underclass NZ. That much was made clear on Sept 20.

            • swordfish 23.1.2.3.1.2
              14 October 2014 at 12:36 pm

              “As for the missing million – Labour, presumably, have tried to mobilize this group……for the past 6 years……and no turkey”

              Nope. Only this Election by the look of it. And from comments 1prent made immediately after the Election (sorry, can’t find them after a quick search), it sounds like Labour’s GOTV operation as far as the missing million were concerned was, shall we say, not necessarily the most professional or competent in the world. Poor canvassing data, no follow-up and so on (the legacy of stupid decisions made a few years earlier, if I remember rightly).

              So I’m not at all sure we can conclude that this hefty minority of New Zealand adults who haven’t voted in one or more recent Elections are hardened non-voters, impossible to shift on polling day.

              • Colonial Viper …
                14 October 2014 at 12:39 pm

                The Labour caucus, and to a lesser extent the Labour Party, has economically socially and culturally walked away from the bottom 50% of NZers. The historical vestiges of concern for that group are still there, but minimal resources, infrastructure and will to do anything about it.

    • framu 23.2
      14 October 2014 at 10:09 am

      who gives a shit what shearer is or isnt – if he cant keep his fool mouth shut and do this internally then hes doing more harm than good regardless

      thats what people are angry about

    • One Anonymous Bloke 23.3
      14 October 2014 at 10:11 am

      Why are you so surprised that Shearer’s attack is met by strong language?

      Evidence that Labour is a “broad” party can quite clearly be seen in the choices Cunliffe made for his shadow cabinet, so you must mean their policies.

      Which ones?

      I think you’re crediting the New Zealand electorate with too much rationality: the established pattern is a “turn-based” approach to political allegiance. This is not an original observation.

      • Here 23.3.1
        14 October 2014 at 10:37 am

        This is not “strong language”. This is really nasty and degrading language.
        It’s got to stop somewhere.

        Shearer says he was undermined by Cunliffe and calls for unity. People here are saying Shearer is hypocritical to do this while bad mouthing Cunliffe, and then people engage in badmouthing Shearer in really nasty terms. We’ve got to stop it. The hatred just goes round and round. And then people look in and see us eating each other and think, No way I’m not voting for that.

        • gobsmacked 23.3.1.1
          14 October 2014 at 10:42 am

          David Shearer has, in the past 24 hours, given interviews on TV3, Radio NZ, Radio Live, the Herald, probably more I’ve missed.

          Meanwhile, this is a comments thread on a blog.

          If you’ll agree Shearer a) has far more access, b) is paid, and c) should stop it, then we’re getting somewhere.

          Agreed?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 23.3.1.2
          14 October 2014 at 10:47 am

          “Strong language”

          And what will they see if they look in on the National Party’s paid bloggers?

          Death threats, filth and hate speech.

          Elephant, meet room.

          Edit: please note, this is not a “he did it too” excuse, it just blows your contention that naughty bloggers cost votes out of the water.

          • David H 23.3.1.2.1
            14 October 2014 at 11:47 am

            It seems to have been proven that a poisonous MSM has cost votes. When percentages were compared with the Special votes. So not bloggers or their commentators but the MSM. But then again there was a torrent of hatred spouted from Wailoil.

          • ankerawshark 23.3.1.2.2
            14 October 2014 at 7:57 pm

            Lol OAB

        • Colonial Viper 23.3.1.3
          14 October 2014 at 11:14 am

          Shearer is a guy who is bitter now that he realises that he has no hope of making it as Labour Leader under a democratic system.

          That’s what Shearer is all about now.

    • gobsmacked 23.4
      14 October 2014 at 10:12 am

      @Here

      You’ve made a number of points about the leadership contest, but what do any of them have to do with Shearer’s behavior?

      Is he standing? Is he articulating a way forward? Is he backing a candidate? Is he contributing to the debate?

      No… x 4. He’s just ranting.

      Got anything that says different? He’s made a ton of media appearances lately, can you point to one where he says something specific and smart?

      Labour needs a debate, but Shearer just needs a holiday.

      • Colonial Viper 23.4.1
        14 October 2014 at 11:26 am

        A permanent holiday from Parliament.

      • Here 23.4.2
        14 October 2014 at 11:32 am

        @ gobsmacked

        Yes, I believe Shearer is articulating a way forward, but it’s not original to him. Lots of others – Josie Pagani, Nick Leggat, and, before long, all the leader contenders – are saying this too.

        • gobsmacked 23.4.2.1
          14 October 2014 at 11:37 am

          What are they saying?

          Forget platitudes (“move to the centre …. lost voters … yadda yadda”). That’s empty, everyone wants more votes.

          What policies should be dumped? What should be adopted?

          All I’m hearing is code, and if they (you) can’t spell it out, it just sounds like a dog-whistle to bigotry.

          So, examples please.

          • Here 23.4.2.1.1
            14 October 2014 at 12:08 pm

            Dear gobsmacked,

            This is tricky, because I’m saying I don’t think this is primarily about policy at all. I mean, what policies did National have? Who could name one, apart from Steady As He Goes. But when I talk about non-policy matters in detail (see above posts) you say this is “code”, failure to “spell it out”, and “dog-whistle to bigotry”. So Looks like you don’t get me, and I’m now confused about what you mean (dog-whistle to bigotry?…I was talking about trust, credibility, Labour looking like a likeable, unified party people can warm to).

            • One Anonymous Bloke 23.4.2.1.1.1
              14 October 2014 at 2:08 pm

              If perception’s all that matters you’re addressing the wrong audience.

        • swordfish 23.4.2.2
          14 October 2014 at 11:56 am

          Ahhhh, Pagani, Quin and Leggett – those three are as thick as thieves. Very much constitute the extra-Parliamentary wing of the ABC’s Right sub-faction. They’ve been shaping a post-Election narrative for quite some Months now with a view, no doubt, to advancing into positions of power.

          I see Leggett (my local Mayor) got himself onto the front page of the local paper immediately following the Election under the headline: Leggett as Labour President ?.

          “Because I’m out there in the media promoting Porirua and Labour it has become a bit inevitable….My name has been raised as a future Labour Party president, and that’s nice…”

          Shameless Self-Promoter.

        • framu 23.4.2.3
          14 October 2014 at 12:20 pm

          but the question you keep avoiding is – “why is he doing this in public to start with?”

          he is a hypocrite – he publicly attacks fellow MPs then calls for unity? After an election that saw the MSM conduct a total witch hunt on the party hes in?

    • Blue 23.5
      14 October 2014 at 11:34 am

      Why would you be surprised? Every time a Labour MP trashes one of their colleagues in public it brings the party into disrepute and makes Labour look like a bunch of disorganised, incompetent morons who exist solely to squabble amongst themselves.

      They just keep on doing it like they can’t help themselves. They have been told not to umpteen dozen times and they still can’t keep their mouths shut.

      It pisses me off and I am not going to tolerate it anymore. Every time one of these clowns open their mouths they do more damage to Labour. They hand National a little more victory every time.

      Any MP who can’t keep caucus business behind closed doors should not be an MP. End of.

      • Murray Rawshark 23.5.1
        15 October 2014 at 1:25 am

        Agree 100%. Who the hell found Shearer and brought him home? What was his connection to Labour before coming back to get a seat presented to him? The guy is a total fuckwit, an asshat, and a douchebag. Since he turned up, he’s basically campaigned for NAct. He does more for the right as a Labour member than he ever could as president of ACT. He makes me sick.

        • Colonial Rawshark 23.5.1.1
          15 October 2014 at 1:32 am

          Goff found him and parachuted him in. Some kind of school boy connection? Or perhaps and old chum was brought back to Goff’s attention.

    • Tracey 23.6
      14 October 2014 at 12:32 pm

      “.… it must be conducted in a spirit of respect and with the realisation that many from outside the Party are watching the process. This applies across mainstream and social media, our husting meetings, other Party meetings and the informal networks which we all have. The greater our discipline the stronger our foundation will be to unite behind the leader who is selected.”…”

    • les 23.7
      16 October 2014 at 8:19 pm

      it seems so simple…but falls on deaf ears.

  24. Jenny Kirk 24
    14 October 2014 at 9:59 am

    I have just sent the following letter to the NZ Herald – I totally agree with you Mickey S – Shearer’s comments are disgraceful, and nasty.

    Letter to NZ Herald :

    So David Shearer thinks David Cunliffe should quit Parliament, and the Labour Party should head towards the middle where the “aspirational” people live. (Herald 14 Oct 2014).

    But that’s just where Phil Goff’s leadership tried taking the Labour Party, and he didn’t succeed either. So perhaps Mr Shearer thinks Mr Goff should also resign from Parliament.

    But no – instead he suggests that the people who “attacked” himself and Mr Goff were anonymous and should now shut up.

    Perhaps it is time Mr Shearer shut up, and started to listen to Party members. On numerous occasions when he was Party Leader – (an ambitious undertaking for someone new to the Party, and with no background knowledge of policy) – Mr Shearer declined to take notice or even respond to Party members with different views from him. These people were not anonymous. They were Party members attending conferences and functions and trying to get close enough to talk with him. They were Party members who wrote to him and received no reply. They were me and my friends and other Labour supporters who all have names and have been active in the Party for years, and who Mr Shearer declined to acknowledge, let alone talk with.

    • Delia 24.1
      14 October 2014 at 10:12 am

      One thing I will say for David Cunliffe is he replied to every query I gave him during the election and I noted others were quickly given responses to..he is a heck of a good guy.

  25. swordfish 25
    14 October 2014 at 10:09 am

    I see in The Herald article, Shearer repeats the fiction (uttered a few days ago on TV3’s The Nation) that Labour were polling 34% at the time he stood down.

    I’ll just link here to the stats in my Open Mike comment
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-14102014/#comment-910106

    I’ve also noticed that Shearer relies on utterly superficial marketing-speak: Labour’s “damaged brand”, ….. “fixing” Labour’s “brand”, ….. “the way that brand-Labour is being portrayed”. Suggests a poverty of thought and soul.

  26. Delia 26
    14 October 2014 at 10:10 am

    Has David Shearer got permission to go on these shows from the caucus? I have to wonder. It is one of the worst looks I have ever seen with Labour and reading FB plenty of Labour supporters are considering supporting another Party because of it.

    • AmaKiwi 26.1
      14 October 2014 at 10:23 am

      Interesting that NO caucus members have publicly condemned Shearer’s remarks.

      I don’t know how Andrew Little can purge the caucus of these destructive MPs. But purge them he must or a lot of us are walking out of an already weakened party. Thank God we have the Greens as an alternative.

      • Colonial Viper 26.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 11:28 am

        Little has no ability to purge MPs out of caucus or off the Party List. Little is walking wounded as Leader before he even takes the job.

      • rhinocrates 26.1.2
        14 October 2014 at 1:32 pm

        Interesting that NO caucus members have publicly condemned Shearer’s remarks.

        Actually, I think that that would only make matters worse. Let him be hoist by his own petard rather than make the party into a public circus again/still.

        Dear God though, he is a sad, vindictive old man.

  27. Dorothy 27
    14 October 2014 at 10:17 am

    I hope that the Caucus has something to say to David Shearer !

    • One Anonymous Bloke 27.1
      14 October 2014 at 10:21 am

      Something like “we have started a formal process to expel you from the Labour party”?

      • gobsmacked 27.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 10:24 am

        More like:

        “We want to make it clear (wink) that this is not acceptable (wink) and on no account should you go on TV with Mike Hosking tonight (wink) or give an interview to Newstalk ZB in 10 minutes, just down the hall, second door on the right …”

      • ankerawshark 27.1.2
        14 October 2014 at 11:21 am

        ONB 100+……………………and where is the interim leader on all of this???? Who articulated the need for a seemly approach.

  28. karol 28
    14 October 2014 at 10:25 am

    I’m not a Labour Party member or voter. I happened to catch Shearer’s interview on RNZ this morning – don’t listen to it a lot these days. And it made me very angry.

    I’ve been ponderng on why – partly it’s the way Shearer misrepresented Cunliffe’s support (here and elsewhere) and failed to mention how much Caucus has undermined Cunliffe in conjunction with the MSM and possibly right wing bloggers.

    it’s also because of the way he misrepresents being for Labour’s “broadchurch”, while actually only being interested int he support of some “special interest groups” kiwis on low to middle incomes, in paid employment, etc.

    But more importantly, my anger is about how Shearer wants to keep Labour, and thence the NZ left generally, locked into neocon/neoliberal policies, and is against full, flax roots democracy.

  29. Tautoko Mangō Mata 29
    14 October 2014 at 10:30 am

    +1 Karol. No wonder non-voters say “What’s the point in voting? They’re all the same!”

  30. newsense 30
    14 October 2014 at 10:33 am

    Shearer was gifted one of Labour’s strongholds and then gifted the leadership. It’s hard to know his dealio, but as someone who has voted for him twice I get furious at some of the things he’s done and said.

  31. Stiff little finger 31
    14 October 2014 at 10:35 am

    Guys and Girls, Chill!!
    You got 25 percent in the General election. Shouldn’t you sort that out before you ordain anew leader. 2017 is gone, look to 2020 as your first chance to become the govt again. Play the long game. But everyone here at TS is filled with their own self interest much like the current Labour Party.
    I know you don’t like to acknowledge this, but the election is won and lost in the middle, not the left. Labour have to to move to the middle and offer a centre left option to the current centre right. Until that happens enjoy opposition.

    • gobsmacked 31.1
      14 October 2014 at 10:38 am

      And what does any of that have to do with Shearer acting like a dick?

      • Colonial Viper 31.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 11:54 am

        Nothing, apart from enabling Shearer acting like a dick. And enabling the continual drag rightwards of the Labour Party. Which appears to be a Labour Party in name only.

    • karol 31.2
      14 October 2014 at 10:39 am

      Yep, you’ve got the ABC-Shearer lines down pat.

      The “middle” is very crowded these days, and its moved too far right for the good of NZ and its future.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 31.3
      14 October 2014 at 10:45 am

      Another idiot who doesn’t understand that The Standard isn’t the Labour Party.

    • Here 31.4
      14 October 2014 at 10:47 am

      @Stiff little finger: Word!

  32. karol 32
    14 October 2014 at 10:46 am

    Here is possibly the reason why Shearer and the ABCs are so angry with Cunliffe’s decision yesterday: Andrea Vance reports:

    David Cunliffe has finally relinquished his childhood dream of becoming prime minister – forced out of the Labour leadership race in a victory for the notorious Anyone But Cunliffe faction.

    He made the choice to go last week, and yesterday gave his endorsement to leadership contender Andrew Little.

    That is a blow to Cunliffe’s bitter rival Grant Robertson, the Wellington Central MP, who is likely to find that Cunliffe’s strong support in Auckland, among the dairy workers union and among Pasifika members will now shift to Little.

    And maybe also a hint as to why Shearer wants Cunliffe to quit Parliament.

    If Little does unite caucus, that would most likely mean listening equally to ABCers, as well as to those who do and have supported Cunliffe.

    • wekarawshark 32.1
      14 October 2014 at 11:00 am

      it’s pretty clear they will hound Cunliffe until he is gone.

      “If Little does unite caucus, that would most likely mean listening equally to ABCers, as well as to those who do and have supported Cunliffe.”

      See I just don’t think this is possible. How much more evidence is needed? There are people in Labour who simply won’t work with DC not matter what. This has been going on for years, and in the past year against what the membership decided. And if it wasn’t DC it would be whoever else was working for Labour going left.

      I think the whole unity thing is bullshit. I like the phrase cohesion better. Little could put the hard word on caucus and those who can’t work with the new way can piss off. This is what Cunliffe should have done.

  33. ankerawshark 33
    14 October 2014 at 10:51 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11341984

    This may have been posted already. Shearer is now saying Cunliffe needs to leave politics.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 33.1
      14 October 2014 at 10:54 am

      He’s projecting.

      • wekarawshark 33.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 11:08 am

        Maybe he’s scared. If Little wins and DC is still there, do they have the numbers to outvote the Deadwood and thus marginalise them?

        • Here 33.1.1.1
          14 October 2014 at 12:13 pm

          @ wekarawshark

          Oh dear. You want to continue to promote the politics of “marginalization”? You want a new leader to support the caucus bitterness and in-fighting? Can you imagine any circumstance, apart from great blood-letting, in which the caucus could unite?

          This is why people look at Labour and go: No thanks. If this is how they treat each other, how will they treat other parties and the nation?

          • blue leopard 33.1.1.1.1
            14 October 2014 at 12:23 pm

            Demoting members of caucus who refuse to stop infighting is hardly ‘supporting caucus bitterness and infighting’ it is sending out the message that ill discipline and lack of cooperation will not be tolerated.

          • framu 33.1.1.1.2
            14 October 2014 at 12:27 pm

            “You want a new leader to support the caucus bitterness and in-fighting? ”

            what do you call not only airing, but creating dirty laundry in public?

            would you agree that ALL labour MPs should use internal channels only to sort out the issues?

            do you think its productive to slander and fight with your colleagues in public?

            do you think the caucus should honour the voting system they operate under?

          • One Anonymous Bloke 33.1.1.1.3
            14 October 2014 at 2:54 pm

            Weka, like me, is a Green Party supporter.

            You, by contrast, state so many assertions about what the NZLP is or isn’t, that, in a yawningly tiresome coincidence, exactly match the tired doze-fest of stupid cak aimed at Helen Clark from before she became leader of the opposition.

            Right wing assertions that you provide no evidence for, beyond vapid and into actual dreck.

            Argumentum ad nauseam is a right wing trait. Just saying.

          • wekarawshark 33.1.1.1.4
            14 October 2014 at 7:17 pm

            “Oh dear. You want to continue to promote the politics of “marginalization”? You want a new leader to support the caucus bitterness and in-fighting? Can you imagine any circumstance, apart from great blood-letting, in which the caucus could unite?”

            Don’t be daft. There is no unity possible with the current make-up of MPs. Shearer and the ABCs will continue to undermine DC, or any leader who attempts to take Labour left. So either they go, or the strife continues, or the membership and left MPs cede Labour to the neoliberals. Unity will be possible when caucus is no longer divided along ideological lines. And time for the fence sitters and younger MPs worried about their careers to make a stand one way or other.

            • Here 33.1.1.1.4.1
              15 October 2014 at 3:39 pm

              I’m not sure why you guys think David Cunliffe is such a left-wing idol, and someone like say Grant (presumably a members of the ABCers) is part of the neoliberal right wing faction.

              As far as I can see there’s not much between David C and Grant (and David P and Andrew L, and, god forbid, David S) on policy. Isn’t it about personality, charisma, appeal, the ability to connect and relate?

              Clearly a big chunk of people connect and relate to David C here. And some in caucus too. I’m not sure why, but I once used to like him too, so perhaps I do know. But it seems the majority of caucus find him extremely difficult to work with. And – not just right wingers! Very ‘left wing’ people too. The dislike for Cunliffe is caucus is not ideological.

    • Once Was Tim 33.2
      14 October 2014 at 1:10 pm

      …… or Shearer needs to just get over himself … maybe apply for the job as next CEO of Blackwater – after all, a mercenary effort is better than no effort at all in his vision of ‘the greater good’.
      Question: did Helen ever support/provide succour for this complete bloody fuckwit?, and additionally – does anyone know how she felt about Clayton (Clay to his mates) Cosgrove? (not that I’m not pissed off with her for taking a bloody big lay down in her third term).
      Gawd strewth – and here’s me calling myself an egg roll
      (http://thestandard.org.nz/david-cunliffe-announces-withdrawal-from-the-labour-party-contest/#comment-909896)

      [lprent: I’m irritated myself. However for the sake of getting an electable leader of the caucus, at present we probably need to be a bit restrained. There is no real point in descending to the level of these caucus clowns ]

  34. Hami Shearlie 34
    14 October 2014 at 10:54 am

    I am thinking up a new place for Shearer’s guitar right now!!! I never thought much of the man and realised that only a man with an enormous ego would take on the job as Leader with no experience, and no ability to articulate even the simplest thing! Shearer has shown himself to be a very very small person indeed!! David Cunliffe on the other hand, has shown himself to be a class act all round, and we can’t afford to lose someone of such ability!

    • Craig Glen Eden 34.1
      14 October 2014 at 11:38 am

      Lets not forget we/ Labour have also lost other good MP’s like Leanne Dalzeil and Charles Chauvel. We cant afford to loose any more good MP’s and have the likes of Shearer and the rest of the ABCers damaging Labour, its time the members got very active and told these people they have had their day there is the door. The ABC group are pissed because they have no power all they can do now that they have pulled DC down is pull the Party down further. The real agenda of this group is now clear to see, “POWER” at any cost.

    • Chooky Shark Smile 34.2
      14 October 2014 at 12:58 pm

      +100 Hami Shearlie and CGE

  35. Barfly 35
    14 October 2014 at 11:08 am

    How many new members of the Labour Party do you need to join in the Mt Albert Electorate to roll Shearer at the LEC level?

    • Colonial Viper 35.1
      14 October 2014 at 11:59 am

      It’s a difficult ask. The key is to find 2-3 strong candidates to stand against Shearer at selection time 2016, and then signing up enough new and existing support to membership branches (and to do so early enough), to move Shearer on.

      You want to control the LEC by the time of Selection, and also the floor vote on the day of Selection.

  36. Dialey 36
    14 October 2014 at 11:18 am

    I felt he sounds a bitter small man and hardly displays the diplomacy he is supposed to be lauded for.

  37. Karen 37
    14 October 2014 at 11:23 am

    Labour Party members can make a formal complaint about Shearer bringing the party into disrepute under rule 387(b)) of the constitution.
    Send your complaint, with specific details, to Tim Barnett at gensec@labour.org.nz

  38. gobsmacked 38
    14 October 2014 at 11:43 am

    Latest brilliant idea from Clayton Cosgrove – control the internet!

    https://twitter.com/mizjwilliams/status/521790986666520576

    Yes, that’ll work.

  39. Tautoko Mangō Mata 39
    14 October 2014 at 11:45 am

    For some humour on the whole ridiculous farcical situation. This would make an excellent political satire series…

    https://twitter.com/gtiso

  40. blue leopard 40
    14 October 2014 at 11:54 am

    The thing that really drives activists wild is when our MPs say stupid things to the media that reinforce right wing narratives about the Labour Party. Please do not do this. If you feel the urge to do this please just be quiet. The right will still use their framing but at least the effect will be reduced because people in our party will not be saying the same thing.

    Bravo Micky

    I suggest a new rule for the Labour party that the above quote be stamped on all the mirrors and bank cards of Labour MPs and at the top of every document they are given to read – perhaps even tattooed on their foreheads (in mirrored writing of course).

    • left for deadshark 40.1
      14 October 2014 at 12:34 pm

      %100 blue leopard,maybe cut up the credit cards,they earn enough.If it is party/government spending,can be sorted at the end of the year,like our secondary tax BS we have at the mo.

  41. Ruby 41
    14 October 2014 at 12:17 pm

    I’m sad Shearer is not standing for leader. I would have given him my vote. He’s right on the money. We are far too hung up on ourselves.

  42. SeanExile 42
    14 October 2014 at 12:30 pm

    Great idea after spending 5 years undermining, whispering to the media, leaking scandals to TV, the DC camp think that the others should play nice and accept their man. If you hadn’t behaved like you did against Phil Goff and David Shearer you wouldn’t have been persona non grata in the caucus. “for now” Shearer is our leader etc weren’t exactly comments that helped our party…
    Live by the sword, die by the sword.

    To be honest this wont stop till DC is out of parliament. His behaviour wont be forgotten.

    What he did, how he undermined the party and caused problems for a rookie leader who would have needed complete support from everyone. Instead on day one DC and his camp started operation dispose DS.
    it worked, a year before the election (with higher poll numbers, much higher than DC got) we changed leader against the will of caucus and voters. This led us to the worst election result since 1922. DC must be proud of his effort…

    Thats the thing all this undermining, this dirty politics and then when the votes come in the inevitable happens. We get routed.
    The voters, our judges, saw straight through us, the personal ratings for DC was below basement and we stood no chance.

    We need people like DS whose personal liking factors were much higher than DC on the front benches. DS, while not my kind of leader, still has higher approval ratings than DC.
    DC is a burden to our party and needs to retire from parliament. He needs to put the party ahead of his ego.

    • Craig Glen Eden 42.1
      14 October 2014 at 1:22 pm

      The members and Unions voted for Cunliffe to be leader Shearer lost remember. The members run the Labour Party and not caucus, its time MP’s in caucus learnt there place, they have been given a privileged position to represent the party nothing more. Shearer on his own is unelectable he does not have a bloody clue as his current behavior shows . Shearer is deliberately giving the President and the members the middle finger well stuff that time for him to go.

    • Tracey 42.2
      14 October 2014 at 1:25 pm

      Reality

      Labour support in last 8 polls BEFORE Shearer stood down

      31.5………31.6………34.0………33.0………29.0………31.0………31.0………31.5

      Labour support in first 8 polls AFTER Shearer stood down

      32.5……..34.0……….37.7……….37.0……..37.0………33.6………34.0………35.5

      Labour Monthly Average support for Last 4 Months of Shearer Leadership

      MAY 33%……..JUNE 32%……..JULY 31%……..AUGUST 32%

      Labour Monthly Average support for First 4 Months of Cunliffe Leadership

      SEPTEMBER 35%……..OCTOBER 35%……..NOVEMBER 33%……..DECEMBER 35%

      • Colonial Viper 42.2.1
        14 October 2014 at 2:02 pm

        Please, presenting facts? How is that supposed to work against these right wing ABC spinners?

    • Delia 42.3
      14 October 2014 at 1:54 pm

      How about competency? I am not interested in personal liking myself. Are you seriously saying that Shearer is more competent than Cunliffe? Remember who got the numbers to roll Shearer, it was Maryan Street a supporter of Robertson. It was a relief and I thank her, Shearer was totally embarrassing unable too get his message across.

    • Colonial Viper 42.4
      14 October 2014 at 2:03 pm

      DUde, you’re so funny in your use of the word “we”. Rest assured, you speak for fuck all people who have Labour’s best interests at heart.

    • Here 42.5
      14 October 2014 at 2:26 pm

      Yuss to Sean O’Exile

    • Mark 42.6
      15 October 2014 at 12:05 am

      Captain Mumblefuck is a complete arsehole who has no future in politics in New Zealand. He is to the right of Ghengis Khan politically and is in the the Labour Party.He is a natural Nat. If you like right wing politicans who are Incoherent, disloyal and a law unto themselves, hes your man.

  43. Clemgeopin 43
    14 October 2014 at 12:44 pm

    Shearer suffers from verbal diarrhea. Comes out swinging, the latest headline says!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10614848/Shearer-comes-out-swinging

    Fool!

  44. Once Was Tim 44
    14 October 2014 at 12:51 pm

    Can someone just be done with it and book this pratt a guest spot on the Paul Henry Show singing “I’m a Rhinestone Cowboy” as an ode to Labour’s demise

    • Chooky Shark Smile 44.1
      14 October 2014 at 1:09 pm

      • Once Was Tim 44.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 1:29 pm

        +1
        He seems to have a rather unique perception of ‘the Horizon’ though.
        (says he praying for offer on house to go thru’ – but like the previous, not holding breath, LVRs and all that kaka

  45. unaha-closp 45
    14 October 2014 at 1:08 pm

    Shearer took the leadership with Labour polling at 29% and was booted out as leader with Labour at 31%. If Labour had continued to poll in the low 30% range, Russell Norman and Winston Peters would still be bickering about who got what on the front bench.

    However Cunliffe took over and Labour got 25%.

    Now we have a National government.

    • gobsmacked 45.1
      14 October 2014 at 1:13 pm

      If it’s that simple, why isn’t Shearer the saviour standing for leader?

      • Colonial Viper 45.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 1:15 pm

        David Cunliffe got a 17.9% preferred PM rating against John Key.

        What was Shearer’s best? Even given that Shearer had an easy ride from the MSM and NATs Dirty Politics machine.

      • Tracey 45.1.2
        14 October 2014 at 1:18 pm

        its of course only that simple if you ignore

        a. the facts
        b. the reality
        c. ohariu, ttt and epspm blody mindedness

    • Tracey 45.2
      14 October 2014 at 1:17 pm

      “.Reality

      Labour support in last 8 polls BEFORE Shearer stood down

      31.5………31.6………34.0………33.0………29.0………31.0………31.0………31.5

      Labour support in first 8 polls AFTER Shearer stood down

      32.5……..34.0……….37.7……….37.0……..37.0………33.6………34.0………35.5

      Labour Monthly Average support for Last 4 Months of Shearer Leadership

      MAY 33%……..JUNE 32%……..JULY 31%……..AUGUST 32%

      Labour Monthly Average support for First 4 Months of Cunliffe Leadership

      SEPTEMBER 35%……..OCTOBER 35%……..NOVEMBER 33%……..DECEMBER 35% …”

      h/t swordfish

      • Here 45.2.1
        14 October 2014 at 2:29 pm

        Tracey, you keep on leaving out that last chunk of reality…..

        25%……25%…..25%……….25%…….25%……25%…..25%……….25%

        [lprent: It is a quarter? Is there a point or are you having problems getting past that point. You may have a erectile dysfunction? It appears to be a common failing among trolls. ]

    • wtl 45.3
      14 October 2014 at 1:25 pm

      Let’s just stop these ludicrous arguments about what X and Y were polling at various times and comparing them. You simply can’t compare polls that were conducted at different times and attribute them to a single factor (the leader).

      • swordfish 45.3.1
        14 October 2014 at 10:02 pm

        True. But this is all about Shearer (and his cheerleaders who’ve turned up here in the last few days) making grandiose (and grossly inaccurate) claims about what Labour were polling when he stood down. People have a right to correct these politically-motivated falsehoods.

        And now, we also have SeanExile (endorsed by Here) making equally false claims about Shearer’s and Cunliffe’s comparative leadership ratings.

        • mickysavage 45.3.1.1
          14 October 2014 at 10:12 pm

          Yep the golden rule is do not spin it. If it is bad say so, if it is good celebrate, but never say that bad is good.

  46. Lorraine 46
    14 October 2014 at 1:30 pm

    How petty! What a bunch of backstabbing little children they are. The remaining candidates in this leadership race will find that they will not unite the party as they are looking for an impossibility. They seem to be missing the point that all years of bitchy behaviour has undermined their credibility. I think they need a woman leader. It is like kindergarten in that party at the moment. The badmouthing by Shearer, Parker and Robertson should rule them out. None of them have the ability to pull together behind the leader and this has been proven in the past. I feel like being sick every time one of them comes on the tv.
    Even John Key said it is not about the leader, and they need to get over wanting someone to lead them to the promised land of being in government.
    The current lot are the most unappealing labour party for a long time.
    I am a labour supporter but hearing them all blame Cunliffe for their defeat in the election show they know absolutely nothing about what is fundamentally wrong with their approach. There is a lot of people out there like me who can see from the outside why they were not electable. Those in the caucus are so blinded by their own ambitions that they can’t see the wood for the trees.
    This would have to be the worse caucus that labour has had in decades.

  47. Valid Point 47
    14 October 2014 at 1:36 pm

    Wow. For your daily dose of vitriol read The Standard.

    What all the comments miss though, is that Labour’s dead. It’s in the process of being ripped apart (use the divisions in these comments as an example). Shame really but the party’s just not relevant to New Zealand anymore.

    Enjoy the death throes.

    [lprent: Do you have a point in being here? If you just want to troll stupidly, then I suggest Whaleoil. If you continue on this pattern of making stupid comments with no content you will lose your ability to comment here. ]

    • Colonial Viper 47.1
      14 October 2014 at 1:49 pm

      Interesting how the right wing are so afraid of Labour still, however. So much effort, like yours, to try and steer Labour off a cliff.

      • Valid Point 47.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 2:08 pm

        Few points on your post (how can two sentences get so much wrong?). One, I’m not right wing. Two, there’s nothing left to be afraid off. Finally, I’m not trying to steer Labour off a cliff. They’ve already jumped.

        • Colonial Viper 47.1.1.1
          14 October 2014 at 2:10 pm

          So you’re just here to watch the crash and burn? Good on ya

          • Valid Point 47.1.1.1.1
            14 October 2014 at 2:19 pm

            Read Karol’s article on bringing Values/Greens/Labour back to life as a single party. There’s your answer CV – just as I said would happen. Labour as we know it won’t reach its centenary.

    • Valid Point 47.2
      14 October 2014 at 5:10 pm

      The point I was trying to make is that your readers and indeed the Labour Party seem to be missing the point of why they lost so heavily. It had a little to do with the leadership. It had a little to do with the inconsistent policies.

      But it had a lot to do with the fact that for 75% of the population, Labour were irrelevant.

      If the party and moderators like yourself threaten censorship of observations you don’t agree with and ignore realities, then Labour will cease to exist in it’s current form.

      And that would be a great shame for New Zealand as strong opposition is critical for our democratic system.

      Finally, I had recently heard about The Standard from a friend. The first time I read it (eg today) the level of anger astounded me. Then you accused me of being a troll!

      So howabout this. I don’t read your site anymore and you can go fuck yourself?

      [lprent: When I am moderating I mainly look at behaviour. I really don’t give a toss about your opinions, I have probably already read similar opinions by the thousands monthly. My job is laid out in our policy. Something that you that clearly failed to read.

      What I am interested in is that there is a reasoning stated about why an opinion is arrived at because that is the basis of a robust debate. You will note that you didn’t say any of that explanation of your opinions in your comment.

      Coming in and making a series of mindless assertions is the action of a stupid idiot – a troll. It is pointless because all it does is start silly flamewars and a series of similar mindless comment in responses (as you can see in response to your comments). I target the perpetrator for some social behaviour changes because otherwise we get a pile of unreadable garbage like your comments from multiple idiots.

      If you don’t want to come back because you screwed up by lazily jumping into a forum without bothering to find out the local rules then that is your decision. In my opinion it merely shows a complete disregard for your status as a guest on our site. But I’m used to dealing with gutless crass hyper-sensitive fools – it is no skin off my nose if your feelings got hurt. If you want to participate in any online forums, it pays to learn the local rules before acting like a dork.

      I’ll carry on dealing with the thousands of other people who daily read and write on the site. ]

  49. Lorraine 49
    14 October 2014 at 1:50 pm

    David Shearer is doing a great job of being Cameron Slater’s mole in the Labour Party.

  50. Gluon 50
    14 October 2014 at 2:38 pm

    I am concerned that David Shearer seems to have lost the plot, which I thought was about regenerating the Labour Party, and forging an effective Opposition.
    Anyone with an ounce of political savvy would know that feeding the press tasty rumours of past or present conflict in the Labour caucus conveniently directs public attention away from the activities of the government, which intends soon to implement such pearls as dismantling the Resource Management Act. Shearer could not be more clearly working for them if he were a National list MP.

  51. greywarshark 51
    14 October 2014 at 2:57 pm

    I have been looking at identity politics to check that I understand what that means.
    I asked for more info but didn’t see it so looked up google. It seems to relate mainly to three societal aspects, Maori development, women’s advancement and gay freedom from repressive unfair legislation. But there must be the identity of the disabled community also, and others?

    Bryce Edwards wrote about it last year in NZ POLITICS DAILY: Labour’s shift to identity politics by Bryce Edwards
    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/nz-politics-daily-labours-shift-identity-politics-ck-142501
    5 July 2013 – complete with image of David Shearer who was Labour Leader then.

    This is discussing issues around the ‘man ban’.
    ‘The problem for Labour, however, is that in jettisoning a primary focus on working people and class politics, in favour of what are seen as ‘political correct’ issues, there is less focus on the 60-80% of the New Zealand public that can be categorised as working class…

    Edwards applies the tenor of an individual blog by Eddie to coming from The Standard. ‘Unsurprisingly, The Standard is full of enthusiasts for this latest identity politics measure – see: On having a more representative Parliament.’….

    ‘Labour’s focus on issues of identity politics has, arguably, been to the detriment of more substantive issues concerning economics, inequality and power.’
    This is strongly affirmed by Josie Pagani…
    Steven Cowan blogger – says that ‘Labour draws its parliamentary politicians from a small pool of middle class contenders and that is reflected in Parliament. It is dominated by former teachers, lawyers, accountants, bureaucrats…’
    He emphasises getting back to worker roots.

    I agree with that. Shearer no doubt considers in his criticsm of identity politics that
    he then automatically identifies with the working class but I think he is wrong. Because it actually is the lower-income class Labour needs to connect to, not go all male and muscle-oriented. The low-paid women and struggling mothers doing their jobs as well as they can are the majority in the low income group who very much need of Labour support and commitment. Women in general, can’t be classified as ‘identity politics’ and shuffled to the side, they need muscular representation and consideration alongside the males, whether from men or women politicians.

    A further think piece by Bryce Edwards I haven’t read but looks interesting.
    – 01 January 2010 Identity politics vs class politics – 8: Neoliberalism and identity politics
    http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2010/01/identity-politics-vs-class-politics-8-neoliberalism-and-identity-politics.html
    And at the bottom of that a come-on to –
    Next blog post: How the liberal-left learned to love identity and ignore inequality

  52. Ruby 52
    14 October 2014 at 3:06 pm

    Shearer is right. Cunliffe should go. There is no other way to have a truly united party. Bugger who is slightly more left or whatever – there are people in New Zealand who are suffering. We need a strong, coherent and united Labour Party to be ready to govern in 2017.

    • lprent 52.1
      14 October 2014 at 3:15 pm

      By the look of it Shearer should go. There is no other way to have a truly united party. We need a strong, coherent and united Labour Party to be ready to govern in 2017.

      Oops.. But your logic seems unassailable. It just needs to be applied evenly.

      For that matter Cosgrove obviously needs to go as well.

      • NeutObserver 52.1.1
        14 October 2014 at 3:22 pm

        [deleted]

        [lprent: Already banned. Doubled to 8 weeks ]

      • Mike 52.1.2
        14 October 2014 at 4:03 pm

        Half the party needs to go! We are going to have a break away group starting their own party and that will more than likely get more support than Labour does.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 52.2
      14 October 2014 at 3:18 pm

      🙄

      Evidence of this, to be compared with Cunliffe’s broad-based choices for cabinet positions.

      If he worked for me Shearer, right now, as of yesterday, would be on gardening leave pending my urgent meeting with my employment lawyers.

      Wait a second, the poisoner does work for me…

    • Mark 52.3
      15 October 2014 at 12:14 am

      Ruby, Labour is meant to be a centre left party, not a centre right party. There are people in New Zealand suffering and its because they are reading posts like yours.
      It worries me that someone could have such a loose grip on reality to agree with anything Captain Mumblefuck says.

  53. dave brown 53
    14 October 2014 at 3:19 pm

    Steve Cowan is half right.
    The special oppression of women, blacks and gays, disabled, unemployed, and so on, has its contemporary roots in the divisions introduced into the working class by capitalism to divide and rule it.
    Fighting for the working class to unite around all of its components including the specially oppressed groups and fight for socialism should be the point of a party that is named Labour.
    However, Shearer doesn’t agree with this. He conveniently attacks ‘identity politics’ as politically correct because he wants a Labour Party that orients towards a white, male, straight, lumpen petty bourgeoisie that looks down on the working class as scrounging off its taxes. Remember the beneficiary on the roof?
    The meritocracy is a bullshit word for those who have succeeded in escaping the working class.
    Not until the Labour Party renounces its orientation towards the middle class and stands up for the working class can it pretend to resolve the causes of special oppression.

  54. Paul 54
    14 October 2014 at 3:35 pm

    Shearer says Labour got hijacked.
    Yes, I agree….by neoliberals like Douglas, Prebble et al in the 1980s.
    It is now time to seize the party back from these people, of which Shearer is just another neoliberal clone.
    Allow the Labour Party membership decide its course..not a bunch of careerist Labour caucus members.

    • karol 54.1
      14 October 2014 at 4:09 pm

      And he classifies “middle NZ” as special interest group, “white blokes”.

      The Stuff article:

      He said Labour had a brand issue, and “we have become a party of special interest groups and not a broad-based party”.

      He said there had been comments in recent days that if there was “a white bloke standing for leader we had to have a woman or a Pasifika or a Maori or someone standing”.

      “No, we should have the best person for the job,” Shearer said.

      “For heaven sake that’s what New Zealanders want.”

      He said Helen Clark got to the top because she was the best person for the job, not because she was a woman.

      Shearer said the people who walked away from Labour were middle New Zealand – “white blokes” – and Labour needed to win them back.

      Contradictions abound.

  55. newsense 55
    14 October 2014 at 5:59 pm

    So Shearer has decided to not stand for leader in order to bitch and moan, decided to respond to pomposity of ‘my brand is statesman-like’ with a ferality instead of leadership , bringing back memories of his preelection endorsement of his post election chances by Hooton and Claire Robinson. Which nows sits next to his post caucus rants and the fact he seems to have it in for Cunliffe, but not Grant.

    How do the people backing Shearer doing this -see this working out? Everyone hates Cunliffe as much as them and…?

    • Colonial Rawshark 55.1
      14 October 2014 at 6:10 pm

      From what I can see, I don’t think the ABCs ever got past that phase in their planning. At least, not in a way which wasn’t shear blatant fantasy, wishful thinking and inability to count.

    • karol 55.2
      14 October 2014 at 6:17 pm

      God! Between Shearer and Gower on 3 news tonight…. don’t those guys ever look at their own blatant contradictions?

      Who in the Labour caucus has ever bagged Shearer et al to the MSM as much as they have bagged Cunliffe & supporters – and as nastily?

  56. heather 56
    14 October 2014 at 6:33 pm

    Great column Mickey you have hit the nail on the head
    I wonder if David Shearer is familiar with the movie ‘The Big Lebouski’ the punch line being ‘shut the f..
    Up Donnie’ a classic Cohen Bros movies

  57. Paul 57
    14 October 2014 at 6:35 pm

    Not so dear Mr Shearer

  58. Karen 58
    14 October 2014 at 6:37 pm

    Shearer needs to go. He is an embarrassment.

    Labour Party members need to make their feelings known to other Labour Party MPs and the party organisation.

  59. Westiechick 59
    14 October 2014 at 6:56 pm

    Dear Mr Shearer
    I am really sorry if your feelings were hurt by people critising your performance as our leader but we do that here – the free speech thing. It is actually healthy. I am very impressed by the honourable work you did overseas but really wonder how you thought you could be right for the role given your absence from NZ until shortly before you entered parliament. You hadn’t lived our history and certainly hadn’t earned political stripes. We wanted the experienced articulate guy. The guy who had dealt to telecom and had handled ministerial portfolios with aplomb. He’s gone now but I hope he will bring his smarts and experience to a strident opposition and a 2017 Labour led government. I think it would be really great if you would please now stop with all the media attacks. I don’t think they are helpful for Labour or the left in general. Get with the constructive, unity thing or if you can’t, please just go away.
    Westie Chick.

    • Paul 59.1
      14 October 2014 at 6:58 pm

      He thinks you’re behind a darkened screen.

    • mickysavage 59.2
      14 October 2014 at 7:00 pm

      Well said Westiechick!

    • Karen 59.3
      14 October 2014 at 7:13 pm

      Well said Westiechick. Shame he probably won’t be reading it.

      • just saying 59.3.1
        14 October 2014 at 7:38 pm

        Yeah he will.
        He will have read the whole thread.
        It’s about him.
        He won’t however take any notice, in my opinion.

    • Sylvan 59.4
      14 October 2014 at 8:28 pm

      +1 Westiechick

    • Craig Glen Eden 59.5
      14 October 2014 at 8:38 pm

      Got to love an articulate westiechick aye 🙂 spot on

    • peterlepaysan 59.6
      14 October 2014 at 9:22 pm

      Shearer’s behaviour reveals a lot about him , and his caucus supporters.

      Out of touch and ego driven, it is the out of touch bit that matters, all politicians are ego driven.

      Various media “names” are exactly the same.

      It is all about them not he matter under discussion or the party one allegedly supports.

  60. North 60
    14 October 2014 at 11:23 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11341984

    I think I’m not wrong – isn’t this a question for the people of New Lynn ?

    Arrogant, entitled fool Shearer. Emblematic of the stuff that has me (a lifelong supporter) now saying – “Labour ?…….nah, not really.” To hell with the Labour that is you and like minded.

  61. Whateva next? 61
    14 October 2014 at 11:52 pm

    Sadly, the MSM was not interested in anything Shearer had to say when he was Leader (because they were breathlessly following Key around world), he seems to be enamoured with the attention now. He does not seem to be dealing with his bitterness in a statesman like way, bury the hatchet Dave, even if you don’t forget where you buried it.

  62. Ruby 62
    15 October 2014 at 12:32 am

    Ok Mark, what’s makes a good centre-left party?

    • GregJ 62.1
      15 October 2014 at 3:03 am

      You seem to be fairly new here – perhaps you could tell us what you think a centre-left party looks like rather than just a slogan like “strong, coherent and united Labour Party”.

      I assume you are a supporter of the left and/or the labour movement so I’m sure you can articulate a progressive set of principles you think Labour should be following behind this united, coherent front comrade.

  63. Tanz 63
    15 October 2014 at 1:40 am

    Sounds like there is bad blood between Shearer and Cunliffe. How was Shearer undermined? Who would want to be In Labour with all this stuff going on? I never received an email either, I no longer want to be a member. The Labour party is a joke these days. And they call the Conservatives loonies…

  64. sir pat 64
    19 October 2014 at 12:08 pm

    [deleted]

    [lprent: Fool – this site isn’t for the Labour party. Read the about. Then write a comment that I don’t decide to terminate because it violates our policy.

    Have I said enough or should I continue? ]

    • sir pat 64.1
      20 October 2014 at 4:21 pm

      please do continue and educate the idiot……i wait with bated breath…..please do not forget the vitriol….