Election Aotearoa Leaders Debate tonight

Written By: - Date published: 5:35 pm, August 22nd, 2017 - 38 comments
Categories: election 2017 - Tags: , ,

From The bumper Spinoff guide to watching the NZ election 2017,

Election Aotearoa Leaders Debate

22 August, 8.00pm, streamed live on MāoriTelevision.com and Stuff.co.nz

Māori Television launches its first debate from the Manukau Institute of Technology. Oriini Kaipara and Heta Gardiner lead the debate with Kelvin Davis (Labour), Te Ururoa Flavell (Māori Party), James Shaw (Greens), Gareth Morgan (Opportunities Party) and Hone Harawira (Mana) and a chance of Winston. They’ll also be revealing the results of their viewer poll, the first one out the gate on the Māori seats.

Lots of other election goodies over the coming weeks too. More details at The Spinoff,



38 comments on “Election Aotearoa Leaders Debate tonight”

  1. Frankieand Benjie 1

    What? No National? Colour me not surprised…. they should be blushing… but I won’t hold my breath as I will go blue in the face and I’m definitely feeling red at the moment. Kia ora Kelvin

  2. Frankie and Benjie 2

    What? No National? Colour me not surprised…. they should be blushing… but I won’t hold my breath as I will go blue in the face and I’m definitely feeling red at the moment. Kia ora Kelvin

  3. Nick 3

    Cool, thanks Standard….I will watch tonight

  4. Gabby 4

    Will Hone ask for a seat? Will the beardy stale male sing? Will the cat come out swinging?

  5. Sabine 5

    its a funny ‘leaders’ debate. no asians, no pacific islander, no women, but three blokes from parties that may or may not get 5% to get anywhere.

    so two caucasian pakeha men and three maori men are the ‘leaders’ to debate the future of NZ. Yei, NZ, the representation of the populace is slaying me.

    It would have been more representative to do a debate among the third party leader and let the male leader of labour out of it altogether.

    still not watching tv. i see no reason for it.

    • Carolyn_nth 5.1

      I think Asian ans Pacific people will not be in the main leaders’ debates either. But it will have women: Marama Fox, Ardern.

      I just don’t get the attention Morgan gets. I get the impression he appeals more to some men than women: maybe those that like an individualistic male leading with a big ego? Like Kim Dotcom.

      • Sabine 5.1.1

        the ad for the debate popped up on my FB feed. there is not one women on the picture. Its Hone, Flavell, Davis, Morgan and Shaw.

        they call it the ‘leaders’ debate.

        so no minority needs apply. The picture is composed of three maori men and two caucasion pakeha.

        As i said, the diversity in our ‘leadership’ is slaying me.

    • weka 5.2

      I know you don’t like Shaw, but I’m curious to see what he does in this situation. Also would like to see what Harawira is up to and if he’s got his shit together now.

      • Sabine 5.2.1

        I did not say i don’t like him, i don’t know him and am thus not sure of him. I don’t have to like any one of them, chances are i never meet any one of them in real life. I vote on policies and what i believe is needed to go forward. Hence why i would never vote for National.
        Gareth Morgan is probably the only one i ‘don’t like’ as i had enough interaction with him on FB to frankly simply abhor his simplistic views on how things should run according to him.

        What i am pointing out is that a Debate framed as the “leaders debate” comes up on my FB feed with a picture of 5 men. two who are caucasian pakeha and three who are maori. Not one women, not one of a different ethnicity.
        On the ‘leaders’ debate. think about that. three of the men represent parties that might not even make it into parliament.

        If they would have framed this differently i would not have an issue, but the ad on FB that Maori TV ran it is quite in your face ‘leaders debate’ = men, caucasian and maori. No others need apply.
        This could and should have been framed differently, especially considering that the “leader” of Labour is a women, and the Greens usually have a ‘female co’leader’.

        but hey, we will see some women when the discussion goes to the Maori seats, something that i will never have any input to give as it is not up to me to have anything to say about that in the first place being white and all.

        • weka

          Yes, I’m with you on the gender thing. I’d love to have seen Marama Fox too. Not sure what options the Greens had, I’d have preferred to see Marama Davidson, but maybe it’s problematic if they start calling the 3 policy leaders ‘leader’ for the purposes of the debates. Frankly I find the whole ‘leader’ thing archaic in that sense, at it’s worst it’s macho shithead debate like Key vs Cunliffe punch last time. Pathetic.

          What I meant was that there are probably still interesting things for me to make it worth watching tonight. If it was Hoskings on TVNZ I wouldn’t bother 😉 We’ll see.

  6. weka 6

    Don’t suppose anyone’s found a livestream link have they?

  7. Dspare 7

    Started now, but only at the warmup singing stage. I just about stumble through the odd phrase of spoken te reo, lyrics just escape me. The polls are interesting:


    Leaders coming on stage now.

  8. weka 8

    Lol, this is really funny.

    • Dspare 8.1

      I was surprised that Morgan knew Kate Sheppard, but I guess she is on the ten dollar note.

  9. Dspare 9

    Looks like we are on pause for a couple of minutes instead of ads. It seems a shame that the TV audience won’t get to hear the answers to student’s issues.
    My assessment so far is that: Flavell is doing remarkable well (minister mana), Davis is a bit stiff, Harawira a bit rusty, Shaw okay but could have been Davidson, Morgan is getting his face out there.

    • Carolyn_nth 9.1

      My impression is I was surprised Davis was fluffing about a bit to start with; Harawira was a sharp as ever; Flavell warmed up and came out very strong against Winston, with very good reasons; Shaw was solid and ended well saying vote GP so as not to have NZ First holding an Ardern-led government over a barrel – but also would have preferred Davidson; Morgan spoke OK but he is sooooo unlikeable – he doesn’t really have anything new to add – boring.

      • Dspare 9.1.1

        Davis seemed a bit thrown by Flavell starting his summation by referencing; “the treachery of one particular party”, or just strangely hesitant for some other reason. Shaw knocked his closing statement out of the park! But it was very much a prepared political speech. Harawira’s being out of parliament means that he doesn’t speechify as much, which took a while to get used to, but I think I like his more conversational approach.

        I think that everyone except Morgan succeeded tonight, though at different things to different audiences. It is tempting to rate them in order, but probably innaccurate as they all had strengths and weaknesses (Morgan had more weaknesses than strengths).

  10. weka 10

    Really glad Peters wasn’t there now. Those five parties can all work together, lots of policy overlap, values in common. I reckon if Peters had been there it would have been much less cohesive and more aggro. Which isn’t to say there wasn’t disagreement, there was, some of it heated, but the underlying values are still there.

    • Nick 10.1

      Agree Weka – Those five parties can all work together, lots of policy overlap, values in common. Shaw was excellent, Kelvin was good, although seems a bit hot headed. Flavell was bland, Morgan was biting at times, Hone was also quite good, especially pointing out grass roots reality of today in housing, rather than policy of tomorrow. I didnt like the song taking air time (lost the time at the end when each person could have had time to close).

  11. peterlepaysan 11

    Kelvin lost it.

  12. red-blooded 12

    TBH, it wasn’t a good debate. The moderators didn’t seem very clued up, they didn’t allow ideas to be developed or debated. Morgan showed himself to be a real prick. Hawarira didn’t add much. I thought the only one to really nail it was Shaw.

    • Dspare 12.1

      The number of leaders seemed to prevent; “ideas to be developed or debated” (and that was with two absent). But I thought the moderators did well under the circumstances, I particularly liked the idea of starting with the quiz (though the later fashion tips segment fell a bit flat – good idea to change pace then, but it went on a bit long).

      Would disagree that Harawira; “didn’t add much”. He is mostly focused on the Te Tai Tokerau seat however, getting the; two MPs for one line, out was his main achievement. Though it was good seeing him get stuck into Morgan at the start, plus the audience students seem to appreciate his lack of evasiveness – but that was online only. Davis looked really uncomfortable a lot of the time, but I wouldn’t agree with peterlepaysan that he; “lost it”, more just didn’t gain much from it. Shaw and Morgan’s lack of te reo really hampered them. I thought Flavell did well, but then I never expect anything of him; so it doesn’t take much to exceed that.

      • red-blooded 12.1.1

        If you invite that number of leaders then you need a more tightly focused discussion, so that idea can be properly debated. The moderators didn’t challenge any of the speakers, and often only one got to respond to a question. That’s poor moderation – it’s not a debate (which is what this was pitched as).

        And Harawira needs to come up with an actual reason to vote for him (two for one doesn’t mean anything if one of those two doesn’t promote any meaningful policies). I thought he was sub-par last night.

        • Dspare

          The moderators did challenge speakers, but not very frequently – I thought they were good sharing the questions around after the first couple. It would have got a bit tedious if it was one question to all five; rinse and repeat, all night. “Debate” is probably a but of a misnomer as it certainly wasn’t a formal debate with a moot and opposing teams.

          As for Harawira, you may not have seen the last third; where the audience members certainly saw reasons to vote for him. The MANA policies are in the process of being retooled from a more nationwide underclass to predominantly Māori focus, but there is a fair bit there (though their announcement did get a bit eclipsed by recent drama):



  13. roy cartland 13

    Was Gareth Morgan Drunk? I know he has a bit of an idiosyncrasy in how he talks, but he seemed a bit woozy during that.

  14. How much more exciting it would be if there was a party offering people a real say in policy and spending decisions through participatory budgeting and people’s assemblies.

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