web analytics

Fabian seminar – why not fix child poverty?

Written By: - Date published: 10:20 am, September 7th, 2010 - 33 comments
Categories: uncategorized - Tags:

The next Fabian seminar will be held in Wellington on Monday 13th September at Connolly Hall in Guildford Street at 5:30pm. Titled “Why not fix child poverty” – Speakers are Sue Bradford from the Alternative Welfare Working Group, and David Choat from PolicyProgress.

This follows the successful Fabian seminar held in Auckland two weeks ago with Susan St John from Child Poverty Action Group and Sue Bradford.

The Government has set up its Welfare Working Group with a set agenda – it doesn’t include fixing child poverty. The Tax Working Group thought that equality meant no change to child poverty – there would be equally as many poor children after their changes as before. The Fabians think that these issues need  debate. Seminars are free and all are welcome.

You can find more information about the Alternative Welfare Working Group here or WelfareWatch, the PolicyProgess site here.

33 comments on “Fabian seminar – why not fix child poverty? ”

  1. zimmer 1

    Why not fix some potential parents, after all we desex dogs.
    Being a parent is a responsibility, not a right if I am to pay for the upkeep as a tax payer.

    • The Voice of Reason 1.1

      I’ve got the knife, if you’ve got the balls.

    • Armchair Critic 1.2

      Why not fix some potential parents, after all we desex dogs.
      Because no government should have the power to decide who should be sterilised, and no government should have the power to compulsorily enforce such a decision.
      Because the solution (sterilise some potential parents) is horribly out of proportion to the perceived problem (parents not being “as good” as you want them to be). That’s a massive over-reaction.
      Because there are more effective solutions than sterilisation. Unfortunately they are more complex, which makes them too difficult for some idiots to understand, even when clearly explained.
      Because people are not dogs, and therefore should not be treated like dogs.

    • nzfp 1.3

      Actually Zimmer – that’s a great idea and finds support all over the world. There was a little country in Europe in the 1930’s and 40’s that did this, they called themselves the Third Reich, some Austrian lad with one testicle named Adolphe really bought into this policy – he took it all the way to it’s logical conclusion. I’m sure John Key thinks it’s a great idea too – his mother (Austrian as well) had a very up close and personal view of this policy. There were 750 Polish children in New Zealand that had a very up close and personal view of this policy too – not to mention Jehovah’s witnesses, Romany’s, Gay’s, European Jews etc… etc…

      Yeah good idea mate – I’ll watch you suggest it to John Key and his family – lets see how long you last!

      Zimmer – almost sounds German doesn’t it (not that I blame Germans for the crimes of their Government over half a century ago – I don’t – but you get the point).

      • zimmer 1.3.1

        British Irish heritage I am afraid.

        • nzfp

          Native “who run around rooting everything that moves” – but you can call me “Tangata Whenua” instead if you like. As for your comment about the natives – “Póg Mo Thón” mr British Irish.

    • Tiger Mountain 1.4

      Now, closer to home Dimmer, it was not so long ago that the socially inadequate and intellectually challenged were considered by some as candidates for sterilisation.

    • Loota 1.5

      The village says where your tithe goes mate not you.

  2. Relative poverty can never be ‘fixed’.

    Having said that, poor children reliant on working parents fare better than poor children reliant on benefits. So there are factors beyond income affecting the negative outcomes normally associated with childhood poverty. Factors that a greater state-enforced transfer of wealth will not ‘ fix’.


    “To summarise, the findings show that poor children reliant on government transfers, when compared with poor children reliant on market incomes, have lower living standards and a number of compounding shortfalls that can be expected to place them at greater risk of negative outcomes.”

    • Blighty 2.1

      “Relative poverty can never be ‘fixed’. ”

      of course it can. Poverty is defined as less than 50% or 60% of the median houseehold income isn’t it? there’s no mathematical reason why any income needs to be that low.

      We have the wealth as a nation to ensure that no household is that poor. If we choose.

      captcha – needs

    • Bill 2.2

      I’ll go with the line that relative poverty can never be fixed….in a market economy.

      Which leaves a fairly obvious solution to relative poverty.

    • Loota 2.3

      Yeah Lindsay is just spouting that shite about how poor people will always be poor, get used to it.

      And where Lindsay, pray tell, are these “Market Incomes” to be found?

      Perhaps you would break up families so that Mum or Dad can move to ChCh to help demolish houses?

    • mcflock 2.4

      Hmmm – so poorer children are more likely to be the indirect recipients of government transfers. To be expected, given that government transfers are subsistence and the income choice of last resort.

      Let’s finish the paragraph:
      “The findings suggest a need for policies that have a wider focus than just income support. Such an expanded policy focus would incorporate recognition of the multiple sources of disadvantage of many of these children, and would explore mechanisms designed to connect parents and children to services directed at reducing the likelihood of negative child outcomes.:

      I agree entirely Lindsay. Rather than just increasing benefit levels, we should also fund greater access to healthcare and further education for parents.

  3. zimmer 3

    FYI – I have had the chop and have 2 very good sons before hand.
    You guys are so manly with your thoughts, is this a gay site or what. TVOR, I bet playing with other mens balls turns you on ah.

    I am being serious thoughabout rights and responsibilities, why should I pay for some down & out having a child by paying all the welfare charges. Support your own fucking family. And yep, I am thinking of the natives who run around rooting everything that moves and people from other 3rd world nations who we have let infest our once great country and breed like rabbits.

    • Pascal's bookie 3.1


      I reckon we should put a bounty on the head of cracker fuckwits and declare their so called property up for grabs. Cracker reckons he’s tuff, cracker should protect his stuff.

      But nah, It’s all ‘ah wah where’s my police force’, and ‘help mama someone taze the brown man for me’, and ‘oh I do like a man in uniform’.

      • The Voice of Reason 3.1.1

        Cheers, PB, saved me having to make the same point. It’s a small step from selective breeding to selective killing, Zimmer and the intellectually challenged are often the first to be eliminated under such a regime, so shouldn’t you be out buying running shoes?

    • nzfp 3.2

      “FYI – I have had the chop and have 2 very good sons before hand.”

      That was your choice – which you were free to make on your own. However what you are advocating removes the right of free choice for others. It was also the top of the slippery slope used by the Eugenics advocates who’s policies led to the attrocities of the Nazis. We – including you – are not Nazis.

    • marco 3.3

      Easy answer to this one. You shouldn’t pay for the down and outer…you should pay for the child who didn’t choose to be born to a P addicted mother and absentee father.

      The solution lays in the education system partnering with the welfare system to produce healthy, well educated young adults who are able to critically examine their parents as role models. I know this may seem like pie in the sky thinking but this is possible. The investment would mean an eventual drop in spending on corrections, health and policing, coupled with a higher tax take from skilled workers and entrepreneurs it’s win win.

      • Bill 3.3.1

        ‘down and out’. Think about that macro. Where the terminology comes from. Punches. K.O’s. Knocked down and knocked out. Yeah. Stomp on them. Losers.

  4. F.Y 4

    I am thinking of the natives who run around rooting everything that moves and people from other 3rd world nations who we have let infest our once great country and breed like rabbits.

    It’s true, Herne Bay has taken a turn for worse. Myself, I wont got to another party unless I’m told how many Africans will be there. Just the other day there were 3 rutting by the roses and another gave birth under Wilkin’s house.

  5. zimmer 5

    You say I am interlectually challenged, why, because I am not a lefty fuckwit. Got 3 useful degrees (science & busisness) which I use to help customers make money so we can pay you layabouts to blog all day. I bet I am right when I say I have a higher palced job that you idealogues, that’s if you have a job. You lefty activists are so fucking important in your own little world.

    [lprent: And you’re a ignorant dipshit (expressed by my BSc, a MBA, a number of other post-grad papers, and a long career in writing code and running projects). As far as I can see from your pig-ignorant comments in the past, you appear to have virtually no ability to string a coherent sentence together. Certainly you appear to be incapable of avoiding typos, spelling or grammatical errors.

    I seriously suspect that you haven’t managed to do anything with your life apart from sticking your head up your arse and complaining to your intestines.

    Yep – and you’re one of the people on the permanently banned list who has never managed to contribute anything to the debate in the past apart from boring bile and bullshit. Go away pj and don’t come back. ]

    • The Voice of Reason 5.1

      “You say I am interlectually challenged”

      You say it so much better than I ever could, Zimmer!

      • Pascal's bookie 5.1.1

        I like the part about how he’s got a smoking hot wife but we can’t meet her coz she lives in Canada.

  6. Jum 6

    Seriously, would anyone be silly enough to let the people who control this country have a say in who lives and who dies. They’re already killing off people who aren’t providing them with money or power through reducing home help, forcing women out to work because cleaning someone’s toilet is more important than being there for your child.

    I can see the scenario played out now. Solo mother ends up with boyfriend because she has been brainwashed into thinking that her son/daughter needs two ‘parents’; then the abuse can start and who gets blamed for that? The solo mother of course because she let someone other than the father into her life. If we’re really lucky we have good marriages; if we’re lucky we have okay marriages; if we’re unlucky we have the marriages from hell. Yet this government is working its way to forcing these women living a hell to stay in it and raise the children to repeat the process.

    Zimmer escaped from Kiwiblog didn’t he. Shame you’ve banned him. He is so good as an example of what the right wing is comprised of.

  7. Kleefer 7

    The irony of the ‘poverty’ measurements used is that wealthier countries may end up with a higher poverty rate than poorer ones if their median income is higher. For instance, according to some measurements the USA has a higher rate than New Zealand, even though it is clearly much wealthier.

    However, while the nominal income gap may be higher, in wealthy, capitalistic societies the actual gap in living standards between the rich and the poor is much less noticeable than in poorer, socialist countries. Even relatively poor people in New Zealand live in houses and have cars, TVs, computers, iPods and, it seems, Sky TV.

    The way to eliminate poverty is to remove minimum wage laws that discriminate against young people, Maori and Pacific Islanders and those without skills or qualifications, while making welfare the temporary safety net it’s meant to be and not a lifelong poverty trap. But I bet Susan St John and Sue Bradford would wail in horror at such an idea, while advocating policies that will make the current situation worse. Sorry guys but I care about the disadvantaged, I just want policies that will give them a fair chance rather than consigning them to the scrapheap.

    • F.Y 7.1

      First part true, second part not.

      The argument that our poor aren’t really poor begets the idea that until people are starving to death we shouldn’t persue an order to society any better than dog eat dog. When people should act for the greater good, or if such a thing exists, has been an ongoing discussion since people could form ideas.

      Removing minimum wage doesn’t assure an end to poverty. Examine the history of any country older than NZ and see if you can still defend that idea. There is no such thing as a “fair chance” in life. Communism came closest and we all know the practical pitfalls of that system. Claiming that paying someone anywhere from 5c an hour to give them a fair chance in a society that has a basic living cost of $15/hr is delusion on a grand scale. It’s a Let Them Eat Cake, approach. All they would have to do is work in excess of 2000hrs per week. Just work harder, that’s all that’s required. And if they can’t do that, they can band together in slums, 12 to a bed; or on the street. But as long as they stay out of New Market, they won’t have to be shot on sight. Like in Brazil or Bolivia. You see, rationality is a bitch. Has nothing to do with left or right.

  8. Lindsay 8

    Kleefer, Thank you for explaining ‘relative’ poverty. Unfortunately these guys will never concede that someone who isn’t a socialist can care about the disadvantaged. They invented and monopolise ‘social justice’ which only the state can deliver.

    • F.Y 8.1

      Anyone can care, not many people have the individual resource to act. Care all you want, but caring wont put one mouthful of food in one child’s mouth. Caring is nothing. Acting is what matters. Difficult to act on social issues when you’re busy importing BMW’s all day. Just not enough time. And since the house is so large and empty, it takes a lot of money just to heat it, not much left to donate to charity. And that working class family that moved in down the road. What were they thinking? Bit outside their realm isn’t it? They drive a Toyota. People should know where they belong… excuse me, have to take this call, important client…

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Tokelau Language Week reminds us to stay united and strong
    Staying strong in the face of challenges and being true to our heritage and languages are key to preserving our cultural identity and wellbeing, is the focus of the 2020 Tokelau Language Week. Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio, says this year’s theme, ‘Apoapo tau foe, i nā tāfea ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ announces a third P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    The Government has deployed a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 Orion (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea, announced Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark. “New Zealand has long supported ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pacific trade and development agreement a reality
    Pacific regional trade and development agreement PACER Plus will enter into force in 60 days now that the required eight countries have ratified it. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker welcomed the announcement that the Cook Islands is the eighth nation to ratify this landmark agreement. “The agreement represents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Securing a pipeline of teachers
    The Government is changing its approach to teacher recruitment as COVID-19 travel restrictions continue, by boosting a range of initiatives to get more Kiwis into teaching. “When we came into Government, we were faced with a teacher supply crisis,” Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. “Over the past three years, we ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Border exceptions for a small number of international students with visas
    The Government has established a new category that will allow 250 international PhD and postgraduate students to enter New Zealand and continue their studies, in the latest set of border exceptions. “The health, safety and wellbeing of people in New Zealand remains the Government’s top priority. Tight border restrictions remain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • First COVID-19 vaccine purchase agreement signed
    The Government has signed an agreement to purchase 1.5 million COVID-19 vaccines – enough for 750,000 people – from Pfizer and BioNTech, subject to the vaccine successfully completing all clinical trials and passing regulatory approvals in New Zealand, say Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods and Health Minister Chris Hipkins. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • International statement – End-to-end encryption and public safety
    We, the undersigned, support strong encryption, which plays a crucial role in protecting personal data, privacy, intellectual property, trade secrets and cyber security.  It also serves a vital purpose in repressive states to protect journalists, human rights defenders and other vulnerable people, as stated in the 2017 resolution of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Ministry of Defence Biodefence Assessment released
    The Ministry of Defence has today released a Defence Assessment examining Defence’s role across the spectrum of biological hazards and threats facing New Zealand. Biodefence: Preparing for a New Era of Biological Hazards and Threats looks at how the NZDF supports other agencies’ biodefence activities, and considers the context of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Approaches to Economic Challenges: Confronting Planetary Emergencies: OECD 9 October 2020
    New Approaches to Economic Challenges: Confronting Planetary Emergencies: OECD 9 October 2020 Hon David Parker’s response following Thomas Piketty and Esther Duflo. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, wherever in the world you might be. I first acknowledge the excellent thought provoking speeches of Thomas Piketty and Esther ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Kaipara Moana restoration takes next step
    A Memorandum of Understanding has been signed today at Waihāua Marae between the Crown, local iwi and councils to protect, restore and enhance the mauri of Kaipara Moana in Northland. Environment Minister David Parker signed the document on behalf of the Crown along with representatives from Ngā Maunga Whakahī, Ngāti ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand and Uruguay unite on reducing livestock production emissions
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor and Uruguayan Minister of Livestock, Agriculture and Fisheries Carlos María Uriarte have welcomed the launch of a three-year project that will underpin sustainable livestock production in Uruguay, Argentina, and Costa Rica.  The project called ‘Innovation for pasture management’ is led by Uruguay’s National Institute of Agricultural ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • 3100 jobs created through marae upgrades
    Hundreds of marae throughout the country will be upgraded through investments from the Provincial Growth Fund’s refocused post COVID-19 funding to create jobs and put money into the pockets of local tradespeople and businesses, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones and Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta have announced. “A total ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Health volunteers recognised in annual awards
    Health Minister Chris Hipkins has announced 9 teams and 14 individuals are the recipients of this year’s Minister of Health Volunteer Awards.  “The health volunteer awards celebrate and recognise the thousands of dedicated health sector volunteers who give many hours of their time to help other New Zealanders,” Mr Hipkins ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Community COVID-19 Fund supports Pacific recovery
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio says a total of 264 groups and individuals have successfully applied for the Pacific Aotearoa Community COVID-19 Recovery Fund, that will support Pacific communities drive their own COVID-19 recovery strategies, initiatives, and actions. “I am keen to see this Fund support Pacific ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Community benefits from Māori apprenticeships
    Up to 50 Māori apprentices in Wellington will receive paid training to build houses for their local communities, thanks to a $2.75 million investment from the Māori Trades and Training Fund, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “This funding will enable Ngāti Toa Rangatira Incorporated to provide its Ngā Kaimahi ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Training fund supports Māori jobseekers
    Rapidly growing sectors will benefit from a $990,000 Māori Trades and Training Fund investment which will see Wellington jobseekers supported into work, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “This funding will enable Sapphire Consultants Ltd. to help up to 45 Māori jobseekers into paid training initiatives over two years through ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Ruakura Inland Port development vital infrastructure for Waikato
    The Government is investing $40 million to develop an inland port at Ruakura which will become a freight super-hub and a future business, research and residential development for the Waikato, Urban Development and Transport Minister Phil Twyford, and Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced today. The funding has been has ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Appointments made to Defence Expert Review Group
    Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today the establishment of an Expert Review Group to review a number of aspects of the New Zealand Defence Force’s (NZDF) structure, information management and record-keeping processes.  The Expert Review Group’s work arises out of the first recommendation from the Report of the Government’s Inquiry ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • No active community cases of COVID-19
    There are no active community cases of COVID-19 remaining in the country after the last people from the recent outbreak have recovered from the virus, Health Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “This is a big milestone. New Zealanders have once again through their collective actions squashed the virus. The systems ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago