Facebook censoring pages critical of John Key?

Written By: - Date published: 9:02 am, September 25th, 2014 - 136 comments
Categories: internet - Tags:

travellerev in comments.

Just a word of warning. A facebook group called “John Key has let down New Zealand” has just been closed for violations of the user agreement. This group had 16.000 members and was one of the most active political facebook pages in NZ. The group was closed and had an extremely tight team of moderators and there is absolutely no reason for this other than that John Key’s PR team is trying to shut down dissent and people organizing online.

They did the same with the Vinny Eastwood Youtube channel about a week before the elections based in the same reasoning. They must have a team of lawyers sitting up there in the Beehive going over all our websites and facebook pages to see if they can shut them down. This is outrageous! Welcome to censure and spying and shutting down dissent. But hey, no conspiracies here! Our government would not do that no sire

I rather suspect that there is somewhat more to this story based on the number of pages set up by people banned from that facebook page.

However the fact remains that Facebook appears to becoming complicit in shutting down sites critical of John Key and the his government.

Comments please. I’d be particularly interested in the reasons given by facebook for shutting both this page and Vince’s facebook page.

 

136 comments on “Facebook censoring pages critical of John Key?”

  1. higherstandard 1

    My god…lprent ………quoting Eve ??

    Best you take a break.

      • higherstandard 1.1.1

        Hope you and the family are enjoying the spring Eve.

        Lots of opportunities to talk about conspiracies should keep you happy and busy.

        • travellerev 1.1.1.1

          Veggie beds more like. These day more and more people are waking up to conspiratorial dirty politics which mean I can go back to having a life. You on the other hand seem to have got stuck in the same old rut. Have a nice day.

      • Brit 1.1.2

        You can report it to Facebook https://www.facebook.com/help/www/186570224871049 . I did. Dear Facebook,

        I was a member of closed and monitored group, “John Key has let down New Zealand”. It apparently was recently removed from Facebook without warning or rationale http://thestatndard.org.nz/facebook-censoring-pages-critical-of-john-key/#comment-898664 .

        The membership was over 16,000, a significant number for page that specifically addresses a country with a population of just over four million. It was meticulously monitored with strict group guidelines enacted to abide by Facebook’s ethical guidelines, as well even stricter rules on racism and moral decency. Although a few abject comments and trolls briefly sneaked through the monitoring system, they were always quickly removed.

        Yet other sites associated with opposing political views remain. In particular Whale Oil https://www.facebook.com/whaleoilblogger . Whale Oil has been implicated by one of the world’s leading journalists, Nicky Hager, in media manipulation, blackmail and enabling stealing opposition party’s internal data. They and their colleagues also have issued thinly veiled “death threats” with inept plausible deniability. They have violent an lewd comments posted consistently on the site (and related sites) – with no guidelines, yet Cameron Salter’s pages remain on-line and active, including on Facebook. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/24/new-zealand-elections-dirty-tricks-helped-john-key-win-another-term

        I believe that removing such an important Facebook page without justifiable cause is an egregious example of biased censorship and an affront of democracy …that I understand has that possibility of exploding internationally. Can you please reinstate that page?

        Regards,

  2. Tracey 2

    surely trav has the notification from facebook giving reasons, or can get it?

    • I was banned so no I didn’t but according to people who weren’t the reason was for violating the terms of service. This group has existed for about 4 years and they were very vigilant. They had a very narrow band of topics people where allowed to talk about. Here are their guidelines:

      GROUP GUIDELINES

      We welcome new members. Please keep our Guidelines in mind when
      posting or commenting on the page.

      1. National or other right wing trolls are not welcome and will be ejected.

      2. We are not here to discuss conspiracy theories. Please stick to facts and the focus of this group, otherwise your post will be removed and you also risk removal.

      3. Threats against any person will not be tolerated. Violence is not a solution and posts or comments advocating violence will be deleted without question and the member removed.

      4. If you spam the page with advertising you will be removed immediately.

      5. Sexist language against any gender is not acceptable and will be removed.

      6. Racist or discriminatory language that targets any particular ethnic group (including immigrants) or religion, is not acceptable and will be removed.

      7. Swearing is natural when thinking about the PM but the C-word is not acceptable here and will be removed. We have all ages in the group so please show respect for others by limiting use of the F-word and other swear words.

      8. Obscene pictures or any other material considered offensive will be removed. Comparing the National government to the Nazi regime is way over the top and does not help our cause.

      9. Tell others about the page by all means, but they HAVE TO APPLY TO JOIN THEMSELVES

      10. The Admins RESERVE the right to remove irrelevant or vacuous comments/Threads and borderline, offensive, or multiple meme’s as we draw closer to the election.

      Please make the admins job easier by sticking to the guidelines.
      Failure to abide by the guidelines risks your continued membership in this group.

      We are an anti John Key group. While we welcome information about policies from other political parties, please don’t bomb the page with party advertising and refrain from debates over my leader/party is better than your leader/party as these lead nowhere and it’s not the purpose of this group.

      Please check our Files (at the top of the page) where you can find ideas for action, a helpful contacts list for beneficiaries and other useful information.

      Finally:Members should note that if their post is removed, the member should think:

      1. Did my post relate to getting John Key and the National Party out office, and

      2. Did my post encourage other people to vote … these two points in a nutshell outline the purpose of this group… other points in the guidelines relate to acceptable behaviour on this page.

      Thank you
      CHEERS ADMIN TEAM

  3. fambo 3

    Whether Key and National are forcing the shut down of Facebook and Youtube pages or not, the fact is that people’s expectations of them are so low now that a vast number of people are now listening to such speculation with an open mind. It’s not a matter of “if” any more but simply how far they will go, now that have “full spectrum power.” Trust in this government behaving appropriately is now gone for anyone with half a brain. The rest are just instruments for their manipulation.

    • yeshe 3.1

      +100 fambo. We are naked witness to our dark descent deeper into US corps takeover. Any hope of anyone in this government behaving appropriately is gone, likely forever.

      (Perhaps one day one of the 15 ousted and rumoured-to-be-well-paid-invited-to-retire National MPs might have a twinge of conscience sharp enough to cause them to comment ?)

  4. BM 4

    I’m guessing threats to kill Key or doing nasty things to his daughter.

    • Enough is Enough 4.1

      yeah probably this

    • Their guidelines to which they kept rigorously: GROUP GUIDELINES

      We welcome new members. Please keep our Guidelines in mind when
      posting or commenting on the page.

      1. National or other right wing trolls are not welcome and will be ejected.

      2. We are not here to discuss conspiracy theories. Please stick to facts and the focus of this group, otherwise your post will be removed and you also risk removal.

      3. Threats against any person will not be tolerated. Violence is not a solution and posts or comments advocating violence will be deleted without question and the member removed.

      4. If you spam the page with advertising you will be removed immediately.

      5. Sexist language against any gender is not acceptable and will be removed.

      6. Racist or discriminatory language that targets any particular ethnic group (including immigrants) or religion, is not acceptable and will be removed.

      7. Swearing is natural when thinking about the PM but the C-word is not acceptable here and will be removed. We have all ages in the group so please show respect for others by limiting use of the F-word and other swear words.

      8. Obscene pictures or any other material considered offensive will be removed. Comparing the National government to the Nazi regime is way over the top and does not help our cause.

      9. Tell others about the page by all means, but they HAVE TO APPLY TO JOIN THEMSELVES

      10. The Admins RESERVE the right to remove irrelevant or vacuous comments/Threads and borderline, offensive, or multiple meme’s as we draw closer to the election.

      Please make the admins job easier by sticking to the guidelines.
      Failure to abide by the guidelines risks your continued membership in this group.

      We are an anti John Key group. While we welcome information about policies from other political parties, please don’t bomb the page with party advertising and refrain from debates over my leader/party is better than your leader/party as these lead nowhere and it’s not the purpose of this group.

      Please check our Files (at the top of the page) where you can find ideas for action, a helpful contacts list for beneficiaries and other useful information.

      Finally:Members should note that if their post is removed, the member should think:

      1. Did my post relate to getting John Key and the National Party out office, and

      2. Did my post encourage other people to vote … these two points in a nutshell outline the purpose of this group… other points in the guidelines relate to acceptable behaviour on this page.

      Thank you
      CHEERS ADMIN TEAM

      • lprent 4.2.1

        Their policies were far more rigorous than ours.

        I just read the facebook guidelines. If they were following these I can’t see ANY reason why they should have been removed.

        • Murray Olsen 4.2.1.1

          One problem with moderating Facebook pages is that people make posts which a moderator might not see immediately. In such a large group, you will always have dubious people, maybe even part of the Whalespew Army, who can use a fake profile to make some foul post. Then they complain to Facebook with another profile. After getting enough complaints, Facebook will take almost any group off the air.

          However, they will usually remove a few individual posts first. The administrators should have been sent notifications if this happened.

    • Maria Sherwood 4.4

      We immediately deleted any comments like that, I have seen worse on other pages, ans they haven’t been shut down.

      • So there were no comments about firing squads or ranting F… Jkey or forcibly removing him from office ?

        ……. I don’t believe you Maria

        • travellerev 4.4.1.1

          Dickhead as usuall. If you are new to this blog, Higher standard is a known troll.

        • Maria Sherwood 4.4.1.2

          Believe what you like, we did not partake in any of those activities,

          • Colonial Viper 4.4.1.2.1

            Hi Maria, thanks for all your good work. You may already know this, but for the sake of transparency Colonial Viper = Tat Loo. Hi 🙂

          • higherstandard 4.4.1.2.2

            Seems that the people running the original site have set up another very similar site.

            https://www.facebook.com/pages/John-Key-is-Shit/482339781870227

            Judging by some of the comments in the first link i’m not hugely surprised that Facebook expunged it from the internet. Some people really need to get a grip.

            • travellerev 4.4.1.2.2.1

              Higher Standard has a very limited grasp of what free speech means. Don’t take him to serious. He is a bit feeble minded

              • TheContrarian

                “Higher Standard has a very limited grasp of what free speech means.”

                No you have a limited understanding of what free speech means. Free speech only applies to the public sphere and does not apply to comments or statements in, or on, private spaces.

                  • TheContrarian

                    There is no freedom of speech on Facebook.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Yes you are correct – people treat Twitter and Facebook like they are public spaces for discourse…of course nothing could be further from the truth: that they are private corporate space, intrinsically monetized and owned by the 0.01% – it’s like holding a socialists meeting in the lobby of Goldman Sachs and being surprised when they decide to move you on with no warning.

                    • That may be so but that is not what this is about. The page concerned was free to publish what they wanted until, not Facebook but another entity wanted it shut down. It maybe a crude form of retaliation from some young National voters it maybe John Key’s dirty team just like what happened to Vinny Eastwood two weeks ago. The fact is that it is not so much Facebook but that entity which choose to limited the freedom of speech of about 16.000 people who happened to not like John Key.

                      Higher Standard did not defend Facebook’s right to shut down whomever they did not like but rather attacked people he thought should get a grip.

                      He was defending the shut down not based on anything other than that he did not like their opinion. The reason why I say that he has a weak grip on the concept of free speech is that free speech is free no matter what you have to say. If one person can stop another from speaking as he pleases you are on a slippery slope. Especially when it concerns a politician who has an inordinate amount of power over a population with a GCSB available to spy on his citizens.

                    • BM

                      What’s the difference between this and all the lefties trying to shut down whale oil by targeting advertisers?

                    • higherstandard

                      Dear eve 🙄

                      Perhaps you should have a look at those two sites I linked to, some of the comments would very justifiably get me banned here if i reposted them.

            • risildowgtn 4.4.1.2.2.2

              Doh that other group was set up ages ago fool.
              Keep up.

            • Christian Carruthers 4.4.1.2.2.3

              Hirgherstandard. Have a look at the actual page, they formed this group because they were expelled by “John Key Has Let Down New Zealand ” for not sticking to the guidelines.
              Are you some sort of right wing troll ? or just thick?

              addendum
              I just read a comment that says you are a troll. Makes sense.

            • Murray Olsen 4.4.1.2.2.4

              Where’s your evidence that it’s “some of the people running the original site”
              You’re just making shit up, which is the NAct specialty.

              • No, actually I remember the names of the original moderators. Robyn Harris-Iles being one of them is now moderator of that group. You are the asshole who banned me for daring to speak up to you. Not because I was talking about conspiracies. After which you came over here to bully me some more.

                • Murray Olsen

                  I am not going to tell you again that I didn’t ban you. Just add it to the list of things only you and Alex Jones know.

                  My remark was also aimed at lower standard, who claimed that those people had made the site he links to.

                  0/2 this time.

        • Christian Carruthers 4.4.1.3

          I was a member of the group , not an administrator. I’m commenting just to assure everyone looking at this that the administrators were very vigilant on “John Key has Let Down New Zealand”.
          It was a huge group with many members, sometimes an inappropriate comment would appear but it would be taken down almost straight away.

          It was a very positive group, encouraging and offering advice to young people who feel powerless on how to get involved in the political process and do something. It never advocated violence or abuse and provided a place to share information about New Zealand politics.

          I’m wondering if a complaint was made because the group was beginning to get some reach outside of the confines of the closed group. Some evidence of National voter electoral fraud was shared and discussed before being sent to the electoral commission. I don’t think that would be breaking any facebook rules.

        • Murray Olsen 4.4.1.4

          Your belief is absolutely irrelevant, unless you have seen all the posts made in that group. Or maybe some of your fellow underbridge dwellers were in there posting? Would be almost as much fun as a Princess Party for you guys.

          • travellerev 4.4.1.4.1

            Maybe it was you got them shut down. I hear you got into arguments and ended up being chucked out too.

            • Murray Olsen 4.4.1.4.1.1

              I left because I was sick of arguing with conspiracy morans like you. Whichever voice in your head you heard that one from, you should stop listening to it.

        • wisestwoman 4.4.1.5

          Those comments were always removed, which are not from many other anti nat pages. I rather suspect the issue was 16 000 members kind of looks like a movement, which is a great big huge threat

        • Andrea 4.4.1.6

          “I don’t believe you Maria”

          Don’t you? I wonder why.

          Were seditious or salacious comments of yours to that site reported to Facebook by one of the Professionally Offended, perhaps?

          In the vernacular – ‘Just sayin’.

    • minarch 4.5

      maybe threatening to burn down the PMs office ?

      oh wait

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10596374

      • travellerev 4.5.1

        A bit like whaleoil’s hate site and Mana’s office getting shot at. Something that still has to be investigated?

        • minarch 4.5.1.1

          i wouldn’t hold my breath, The NZ police couldn’t investigate their way out of a paper bag & a lot of them (so ive been told) consider most of northland “bandit country” .

          IMO They (like a lot of other police forces around the world ) Have become dependent on signals int and seem to have forgotten how to do actual police work

          if you don’t use your cell phone , or you encrypt your comms they don’t know how to gather any evidence anymore

      • wisestwoman 4.5.2

        People who made threats of violence were always removed.

    • Matthew 4.6

      Anything like that would be removed immediately.

    • Delia 4.7

      I would not be on a FB page if it was like that…it was heavily moderated right through the election. I am pretty angry that my political voice and those of others was shut down.

    • Chooky 4.8

      @ BM and Enough is Enough…..where is your evidence?

  5. Jan 5

    No it’s just gone from my page, no announcement nothing, all posts wiped

    • Maria Sherwood 5.1

      Admin had the same problem Jan, No notice at all.

      • Ripeka Shepherd 5.1.1

        hi Maria, I was driving with my husband and made the comment that I couldnt find our page and hola, he told me what happened. thanks for everything, certainly got a lot of us through the ‘bad patch’.

      • Murray Olsen 5.1.2

        If none of the admins received any notification, why are people posting that you were removed for violating the terms of service? A hacker could have done it. Have any of the admins noticed anything funny with their personal accounts?

  6. I was one of those banned. I never felt inclined to screw them over. To each their own. The fact is that they kept a very clean house and whatever their faults they where a massive outlet of anger regarding John Key’s dirty politics. So let’s not make this about me but about the fact that two hugely political internet outlets critical of John Key and National’s Dirty politics have been shut down.

    One six days before the elections with a video about John Key’s banking history being the video tagged as the reason and one with 16.000 angry people wanting an outlet for that anger.

    Here is the video that got Vinny Eastwood’s youtube channel shut down.

    http://www.thevinnyeastwoodshow.com/vinny-mr-news-eastwoods-blog/john-keys-real-past-exposed-must-see-please-share-6mins Let’s hope they don’t shut the Standard down!

    • yeshe 6.1

      +100$ travellerev and for re-link of that video.

      And let’s recall the banning of the Planet Key song and video — surely that must be permitted back into general public use now ? And there was something else banned .. can’t remember now.

      Censorship with the full weight of GCSB. Thanks Mr Fletcher, Quisling in Chief you have become.

  7. Matthew 7

    Eve was never a part of that page as anything more than a member, and im pretty sure she was on the banned list, just to clear that up, so she would not have received any official notification of the reasons why, & I doubt she has any sway over any of the admins.
    I used to be an admin of that page, i quit because it was becoming too time-consuming for me to do it any more. It had a huge amount of banned members, usually because they were trolls, racists, or just plain assholes, but it had some very dedicated members. Admining it was a lot of work, & a lot of behind-the-scenes work to keep it on focus.
    I cannot possibly imagine why it breached the ‘user agreement’ but as a guess, thats just the fallback position for ‘we dont like what you stand for so we are closing you’. If i find any more Ill post it.

    My 2c worth

    • Susan Dax 7.1

      Just for the record I was banned from this site, and I was not any of those things. It was before the rules were updated, and all I did was give my honest opinion of Winston Peters (without being rude or swearing). I didn’t even know that the person I was arguing with was an Admin, and I got banned without warning. I felt very betrayed at the time. Banning people because you disagree with their opinion – that’s one of the things we don’t like about the govt, isn’t it? Irony is everywhere.

      [lprent: We do warn like this.

      I tend to warn when I’m are feeling generous. Other moderators are much kinder.

      However we always try to give a reason why someone got banned to help them to avoid the behavior in the future. Not that many would agree with that reason.

      But who really cares. In the end it is the moderators who decide, and they are deciding on the best interests of *their* site. If they push it too far, then you will find that the site eventually dies as people go elsewhere. The net is wide. ]

  8. Jan 8

    How infantile BMW did you not read how controlled and moderated that site was, the guy behind it was very,very careful about that sort of thing. But hey you can complain till you are red in the face about hate speech, racism, religious rantigs and Faceook will ignore you every time but delete a cosmetic or health and beauty blurb and they are all over you.

  9. Peter 9

    Do Facebook not have to give an explanation? On the face of it this is unbelievable!

  10. Maria Sherwood 10

    I am an admin of the above page, and we have had no explanation whatsoever. We monitored the site 24/7 literally and did our best to keep it clean. I, too, would like an explanation from facebook. The least they could do was warn us.

    Does anyone have an idea how to have these questions answered? We have asked for one, but nothing yet.

    • lprent 10.1

      I don’t use Facebook much, so I don’t know much about its operation as a page holder. But was there a backup of the page’s content?

      If so then I’d be happy to spend some weekend time getting it back up on the web outside of facebook. Alternatively if it appears in the wayback machine or something like it?

      Looking at the pages of those banned, it appears that the only way you got banned from the site was for violating facebook rules. Is there a page to

      1. complain to facebook about them taking it down.
      2. requesting that they put it back up again.
      3. requesting that they detail examples of the reason for taking it down.
      4. requesting that the identify the complainants in the interests of transparency.

      I really don’t like having pages disappearing off the net like that without any stated reason.

    • oarSum 10.2

      There’s a page on Facebook NOW called John Key Has Let Down New Zealand

      It has 592 members

      It has a post pinned (by Robyn Harris-Iles) dated Sunday, 2 February 2014

      https://www.facebook.com/groups/394898183988414/?fref=ts

  11. infused 11

    I’m sure Facebook, who offer the service for free, really care.

    They won’t answer you either.

    It’s pretty easy to get a page removed. Hate speech is a good start.

    • shorts 11.1

      this

      Facebook simply don’t care and won’t care nor will they engage in a discussion about the reasons for taking the page down – for they simply can’t be bothered with such activities

      its their site and platform and police it as they see fit, no right wing agenda… just commerce disguised as a place to share all your personal information

      if you want to enact change facebook is the last place to try and do it

    • lprent 11.2

      It’s pretty easy to get a page removed.

      Yes. Mostly you just have to complain and point to something vaguely derogatory.

      The question really is about *who* are laying the complainants. Press secs, Cameron Slater, John Key, Farrar or people organised by them?

      I suspect that the dirty politics of John Key and National is moving to a new arena. Cameron Slater and David Farrar are no longer going to be good avenues for personal attacks on people like doctors or teachers pointing out the deficiencies in the governments policies. Instead, I’d expect National to try to close the channels for expressing dissent.

      Running organised campaigns of complaint seems like a effective approach. THis looks like it may be underway.

      • shorts 11.2.1

        totally Lprent – national are well organised and resourced, so its not hard to figure they or a henchperson would be behind takedown requests

        I don’t think it matters who is doing it – theres no shortage of stooges for them to task such a role… nor members of the public too I might add. The fact it might be orchestrated shows how good national is at media management, which most realise already

        judging by Keith Ng’s excellent post and comments over at Public Address I’m not so sure National won’t just keep using the same team as before – possibly add some extras into the mix for good measure – as their arrogance is strong and will ultimately be their undoing

      • Tracey 11.2.2

        So it ispossible that alot of the derogatory stuff could have been posted by people like carrick Graham (using a pseudonym of course) and others of his ilk… laying the groundwork for a complaint, or just doing what they have been paid in the past to do. Those who think what I just wrote is a conspiracy, go read Dirty Politics and the whaledump emails.

  12. k wood 12

    I was a member of the group and the Admins did a great job. And are very dedicated to keeping things within the guidelines. The only obvious reason they I could see for fb to shut it down is that the government didn’t like it. Because the number of members are so high and growing. As has been mentioned, the group had been there for years.

  13. Carol 13

    It has been possible to get pages reactivated in the past it seems. Everyone needs to write to Facebook and make a complaint, requesting it to be reactivated ……

  14. johnm 14

    The group was so tightly controlled, I thought it repressive. It was so well behaved as to be boring. Facebook and youtube are U$ controlled and Key is a U$ puppet. They’re doing him a favour? Definitely discriminatory and contra free speech.

  15. risildowgtn 15

    That group was moderated very tightly and rigidly.
    I know some of the moderators there and they worked tirelessly for years making sure that group adhered to Facebooks rules. Which it did

    This is censorship pure and simple..

  16. Adele 16

    I was a member of the group, it was a place for people to discuss their disillusionment with the present government. some of the discussions got heated, sometimes people swore – but it was a place for people to express their opinions. I have no idea why the page has been shut, it stinks of a conspiracy. Yet we are in NZ where such things are unheard of!

  17. Ovid 17

    One hypothesis ventured over at reddit:

    The Young Nats probably went on a flagging spree on the page. If you get enough complaints about ‘offensive content’ facebook will take something down regardless.

    One other redditor says:

    A very large and very anti John Key/National YouTube channel was taken down 2 weeks ago as well without proper explanation. I am wondering if there is a mass flagging/brigade working for National to get accounts shut down that are opposed to them. Just a far left conspiracy theory I know.

  18. Ros 18

    I was a member of the group. It was informative and helpful. It was tightly run to the point of been annoying but now we see why. There was no reason to shut the group down. The only reason would be that it had become too powerful and freedom of speech has been lost in this country

  19. macfeck 19

    I think the moral of the story is don’t go setting up groups on private company services and expect them to play fair (especially if they get a call from VIP’s / Government / leading political party). Hosting this yourself is a tricky call as there is no way you get the same reach but you can still use fb to promote and market the group.

    Set it up again on your own servers, or on a trusted third party and then get promoting it.

    On a related note, I think National won the Infobattle this time round – controlling the media (with very rare exceptions) and generally controlling the message. And I think it is likely that they or one of their affiliates / hackers / lackeys organised this shutdown. But it’s time to wise up and think of the next generation of (secure) tools and PR that will hold firm against dirty tricks etc and provide plenty of sunlight on #teamkey…

    • Colonial Viper 19.1

      Pretty much…good to see strategic thinking on the extra-Parliamentary left…its the resources and implementation which let us down.

    • Chooky 19.2

      If Facebook is complicit in John Key Nact Dirty Politics of undermining and shutting down democracy in New Zealand …the story needs to go VIRAL INTERNATIONALLY

      ….questions need to be asked why?….who is running Facebook? ….what are his affiliations and politics and agendas?

      People will think about boycotting Facebook and /or choosing another site for social networking

    • weka 19.3

      +1 Macfeck. Even without the censoring, those big commerical platforms change. Google groups closed. Ning spent years promoting itself as free to community groups then started charging in ways that caused many groups to fold. I expect these things to get worse.

      This is another aspect of the free media ideas being floated. We need more low end access to online tech that we can control. If the people that set up that FB page wanted to set up something resilient and future-proofed, how easy or hard would that be?

      I’m acutely aware of how vulnerable the standard is in this regard, being so reliant on one very competent and commtted but lone tech.

  20. Puckish Rogue 20

    We’re watching you…there is no escape

  21. oarSum 21

    The page is LIVE:
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/394898183988414/

    As for Vinny Eastwood’s YouTube chanel… if that’s closed, then GOOD; he’s a certifiable whackjob

    • Bob Solo 21.1

      Agree. Vinny is a scienceless dunderhead who doesn’t have the critical thinking skill to seperate fact from fiction. There’s a lot of hate behind a lot of the stuff he posts. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

      • Murray Olsen 21.1.1

        While I agree with your gentle evaluation of Vinnie Eastwood, I don’t really see why his youtube account should have been closed down. I did hear a rumour of copyright infringement, but I don’t know.

        Anyone with half a clue on the right would donate to keep his account up. He serves their purpose by filling people’s heads with rubbish and keeps them chasing ghosts instead of doing anything effective.

    • First they came for Vinny but I didn’t care for he was a wackjob,
      Then they came for John Key let down NZ but I didn’t care because they should not have had their group on Facebook and been angry with John Key in he first place,
      Then they came for oarSum and there was no one left to speak for him.

      Freely based on Martin Niemöller, First they came for the Communists.

    • wisestwoman 21.3

      I have to agree with you there. His stuff was always removed from the jkhlnzd, as was that of Shoveller Ev, despite her many requests to others to post links on for her. It was a page that did not deal with conspiracy theories, thank goodness.

      • travellerev 21.3.1

        A person calling herself wisestwoman is a person with his/her head so far up her ass it’s not funny anymore. But then again maybe your choice of name was one of convenience so you could peddle your shit here under the guise of some kind of wiseywomany kind of pretense.

        You are aware that it was my comment on the top as a post here are you?

        As for other people putting stuff up on John Key has let down New Zealand the two times I asked people were actually quit happy to oblige.

        I was banned not as a result of my research into 9/11 but because I got up the nose of one of your moderators at the time. Murray Olson was his name. I got up his nose because I pointed out that our involvement with the war in Afghanistan was a warcrime and his daughter was in the NZ army.

        As for Vinny, His video of the 6 minutes truth about John Key went viral and it seems that unlike you the powers that be actually took the content very serious.

        There is a saying: I don’t like what you say but I will die for your right to say it.

        I don’t like what you have to say in your demented ignorance but I will die for your right to say it. It would behoove you to extend that right to free speech to Vinny too.

        • wisestwoman 21.3.1.2

          I was very aware, yes. You were removed because you are a conspiracy nutter who has the absolute right to shovel your crap on your own page. You were warned many times about your cut and paste bullshit. For the record, it was not Murray who removed you – you provided hours of entertainment, but one of the other admins.

          And as for the pretentious “Traveller” name, well …

          • travellerev 21.3.1.2.1

            Oh, the aggression. And that for a wisestwoman. Any chance of checking her IP address?

            You might need to read up on how to be a bit more sophisticated as a shill. The way you are acting now might get you banned here.

        • Murray Olsen 21.3.1.3

          Great idea posting personal information about people that you don’t like. Especially when it’s about my family and includes someone who has nothing to do with your stupid issues. Did you learn that from Whalespew? Oh, maybe you know him as Cam.

          I wouldn’t fight to the extent of a minor flesh wound to help either you or Eastwood publish anything. There are more lies in your post above, yet I suppose you think of yourself as some sort of truth seeker. Well, bugger you. I’ll now go back to ignoring your demented rants.

          • travellerev 21.3.1.3.1

            You where the one posting your personal information all around fucking Facebook Murray. Not me. Your aggression and hypocritical anger about personal information you released yourself reeks of shilling.

  22. Te Reo Putake 22

    Hmmm, post about internet censorship … the Standard disappears for an afternoon. Spooky!

  23. Michelle Johnstone 23

    and the tumbleweed rolls on through

  24. ropata 24

    wonder who shut down the original @whaledump ? these services exist to make $$$ and anything that pisses off the corporate elite is verboten

  25. Frankie V 25

    The group, as far as I understand was shut down due to an assassination threat against Key by one of the members. I spoke to that member and she said she was banned from the group but it may have been up long enough for agencies to see, get involved. That is a breach of FB’s TOS. The mods are generally very good in that group.
    I’m not sure if Desi L is still an admin there but I have seen her ban people for disagreeing with her (and she is very anti Winston, so anything to do with Winston is disagreeing with her) and then seen her crow about it later in a secret group they have.

    • Murray Olsen 25.1

      Have you really, Franquis? Desi left that group ages ago. She got sick of little shitstirrers and rampant xenophobia.

      Please tell me more about the secret group.

    • wisestwoman 25.2

      Talking about secrets, Frankie V, you have a pretty big one you’re keeping from the love of your life don’t you?

  26. Maryanne 26

    I was lucky enough to be a part of that wonderful page, and found that most of the negativity came from other party supporters. If negative threads and posts came up, admin were pretty quick to deal with them, even making it clear a certain ‘c’ word meant immediate delete, lol. It was a place for those who do not agree with charter schools, novopay, chch rebuild failures, TPPA(Let it see day, before signing our lives away), social development system failures, power increases, no pay increases, tax breaks for higher earners, refusal to work with teachers while demanding a new education system roll out, job losses, redundancies, rock star economy with excess graduates and little job opportunities, asset sales, oil and mineral exploration, deep sea drilling, rena disaster, restricted recreational fishing while commercial fishing is still accepted, environmental issues, financial issues, current events etc and so many other failings that honest citizens within New Zealand are having to deal with, everyday, I was taught so much about politics through that page, as I can assume many others also had the chance, since it was 16000+ strong. Anyone that believes its all conspiracy theory needs to G.O.O.G.L.E TPPA!! Although if you dont mind 5eyes and GCSB watching your every bowel movement, keep your eyes closed. I like the fredom to grow, give and learn what I want. If my great grandkids have an amazing invention, I want that to go to them, not some greedy global corporations. I was sad about the loss, but hey, I found them again, so 😛 all you sheeple 😛 😛 😛

  27. BobW 27

    At this present point of time the admins of the group do not know the full reason why the group was shut down… we could speculate, however until FB let us know, if they ever do, we are as much in the dark over the shutdown as anybody… save the one/s who complained, and FB themselves. Needless to say, the admins worked tirelessly at keeping the group tight, and ensured that the guidelines were adhered to.

  28. Todd 28

    Maybe it was because John Key has never gone after Facebook for unpaid tax to our country like the Labour Party threatened to do?

  29. Brit 29

    Meanwhile David Farrar’s Kiiw blog and whaleoil.co.nz/ intrinsically linked to Team Key, and who were implicated of illegal activities, including blackmail… remain open. These right wing blogs and their FB pages were littered with comments that were astoundingly lewd and violent, are still thriving on corporate cash paid for info-editorials. Nothing on the news about this censorship.

  30. Murray Olsen 30

    There’s a long story to that Facebook group. One of the women who started it died. I was involved with it a while back but left because I was wasting too much time. Later on, there was an internal coup among the administrators and the ones who stayed closed the group. If someone wrote a book about it, no one would buy it.

  31. WHAT do you really think … that we have free speech and sharing of ALL opinions?? The people in power always have the longer “arm” because they have the money, the connections … and last not least the press on their hands.

  32. Divine Future 32

    Good Job How does it feel to get the straight block,, Not nice aye, No warning so you can fix your mistake, No explanation as to why you got shut down. you have read through the guidelines and cant see where you went wrong, Being shut out of a community you really Looked forward to seeing everyday, Loosing friends who you had a common interest in. Feeling Orphaned….
    Well this is what you did to me… And I was upset and confused for days,, it affected me quiet badly.. So i say GOOD JOB…. I hope Face Book never reinstate your page..and I wasn’t the only one you did this to,

    • Jack 32.1

      ” to get the straight block ” I agree divine. Here on the standard one can get banned for a time period or if totally banned one can’t comment but can read other’s comments. with JKHLDNZ access completely vanishes permanently. Plus some of the moderation was excessive in my opinion. 🙂 You don’t need them divine. To be fair they are under pressure from facebook’s standards of service provision and our fear of the gcsb and police, other independent platforms are much freer. They’re were doing that pathetic kiwi sh*t called self policing to be responsible.

  33. heather 33

    Seems pretty over the top to me Maria has worked hard with any trouble makers and stpped comments.
    We are up nprth and saw two big white facilities covered with dishes for listening I guess they are the ones referred to in recent media?

  34. can this group be reconstituted? – ie does it exist outside of FAcebook and, if so , how can i join – thanks – bruce

    • Rolf 34.1

      There is a discussion group called flashback.se that has proven resilient, just like Pirate bay, censor has failed to shut it down.

  35. Rolf 35

    Just another side of the ”dirty politics”. What scares me most is that this is a near carbon copy of what happened in Germany in the 30-s, historical events that I personally have taken a lot of interest in. Just as the German people at the time put a blind trust in one elected person, Kiwis are now doing the same, and all critical voices that can’t be suffocated with rhetoric are silenced. This is a sort of corruption. John Key has snuggled up to the USA, and in return the USA is protecting him, as a modern Quisling, from democratic criticism, just as it happened in other dictatorships, past or present. This development is dangerous, history has proven it. What happened to the Germans.

  36. oarSum 36

    @travellerev, your hobby-horse parody of Niemöller falls at the first fence; no-one in their right mind would ‘fight’ for Vinny the whackjob – because to do so would NOT be in defense of free speech or any other valid right

    He’s merely a delusional, egotistical wannabe that feeds on and perpetuates dis-information

    You are not entitled to your opinion.
    You are entitled to your informed opinion.
    No one is entitled to be ignorant.”
    Harlan Ellison

    You’ll fall at the 2nd fence, too (“Then they came for John Key let down NZ”) because:
    (1) that’s a strawman
    and
    (2) as I pointed out yesterday evening:
    “There’s a page on Facebook NOW called John Key Has Let Down New Zealand

    It has 592 members

    It has a post pinned (by Robyn Harris-Iles) dated Sunday, 2 February 2014

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/394898183988414/?fref=ts

    • One Anonymous Bloke 36.1

      Of course you’re entitled to your opinion, no matter how offensive.

      What you aren’t entitled to is to have your opinion respected – as you say – unless it’s informed, and then again, ignorance is a condition we all share. An illustration:

      Even among aircraft engineers, there is no-one who understands every part of a Boeing 747, the same may even be said for every sub-assembly. Too many technical disciplines to master. Specialisation murders knowledge, no matter the value of either.

      Ignorance is a condition we all share.

      PS: re-reading this, I realise I’m plagiarising someone. Will try and find the reference.

      PPS: Hmm, no luck thus far. Oh well, sorry, source, whoever you are.

      • Murray Olsen 36.1.1

        Infringement of copyright is serious, OAB. Armed police and helicopters will shortly swarm your house.

        As far as Vinnie or Ev are concerned, I wouldn’t lift a finger to shut either down. I think they have a right to say whatever they like, but they do not have any right to demand anyone provide a platform for them. And I have the right to counter the lies Ev says about me. I do not have the right to demand Lprent provides a platform for it.

    • wisestwoman 36.2

      I love you oar-sum. You are awesome.

    • Um that site is gone too as has the site with photo’s of creatively enhanced National Billboards. But of course that is cool with you.

  37. david 37

    If ordinary New Zealanders are being censored and the voice of the National Party is drowning out all others by the use of dirty tricks then New Zealanders need to find ways of circumventing the corporately – directed agenda that we are being herded towards. Buying power is one thing – monitoring what you buy, who makes it, who profits by it. Where do you keep your money? Where do you get your news? It is not easy to exercise people power or to know how but awareness is a good start.

  38. small thing 38

    Its started again so soon must be a NP PRIORITY
    The little fascist at it already

    FASCEBOOK NO LIMITS ON WHAT YOU CAN DO

  39. Rolf 39

    For politicians it is easy to censor critical groups on Facebook or other places. Don’t forget how “dirty politics” work. It works fine on Facebook too. A John Key allied hack, like Slater maybe, becomes member under false name, and post comments like “kill John Key, death to national”, and woops, the group is closed down, which was just the purpose of the Key allied fraudster. We just have to learn to understand how this works. There is no need to close the group, just remove the comment, and ban the fraudster, but John Key is well aligned with Washington, and through clandestine channels get the entire critical group closed down, which I what he wanted.

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