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F*ck the police

Written By: - Date published: 11:17 am, April 12th, 2011 - 161 comments
Categories: law and "order", police - Tags:

Tiki Taane arrested for singing NWA’s classic ‘F*ck the police’ when there were cops at his gig. Disorderly conduct likely to incite violence, says the Old Bill. Yeah, right. Here’s how this will play out: It’ll be laughed out of court. Collins will rush through new restrictions on our rights to ‘back the police’. O’Connor will renew call for cops to be armed.

161 comments on “F*ck the police ”

  1. s y d 1

    from sunlive.co.nz
    “Nothing much shocks me these days, but that definitely did,” says Abigail.
    “I couldn’t believe it. My mouth just dropped – but then I had a bit of giggle.”
    She says the police officers walked into the nightclub with their “chests puffed out”.
    “The police have their place. They do brilliant work, but it’s like trying to stop people from having fun.”
    Tauranga MP Simon Bridges says Taane should be ashamed of his actions on the night.
    “Police do a difficult job and the last thing they need is idiots like him saying ridiculous things and potentially putting them in dangerous situations.
    “I hope we never see the guy again in Tauranga.”
    Simon fucking Bridges – hope i never see you in my town again, fucking blow in..
     

    • Fat Uncle 1.1

      Baptist wanker. Jacinda should wipe the floor with him on the breakfast show…he’s baptist right?

      • Vicky32 1.1.1

        Baptist wanker. .. he’s baptist right?

        If he is, why is that relevant? You are showing bigotry, sir.

  2. freedom 2

    It is important to remember no violence occured, no Police were assaulted and all arrests occured long after the performance of the song.
     
    read the comments from Miss Rose, she was there
    http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/12398-tikis-court-date-f-police.html
     
    New Police Commissioner Peter Marshall has only one opportunity to show how much change he wants the Police to achieve.
    He can choose to continue to follow the whims of oil barons and bankers or work within the law and support the legal rights of the New Zealand citizenry,
    Two current events are going to show his hand.  One is the Petobas protest, the second and far more discreet though no less vital to the role of the Police is the defense of a citizen’s right to free speech.  I refer to the ridiculous arrest of Tiki Taane for an impromptu performance of a song that has been regularly performed throughout NZ for many years.

  3. vto 3

    tiki taane arrested.

    cops dishing out vigilante justice to Chch looters.

    military brought in to stop people swimming in the ocean.

  4. felix 4

    Ignorant, arrogant fucking pigs. Good on you Tiki.

  5. randal 5

    sorry guys but being left wing does not translate into being anti police.
    their job is hard enough without the ignorati provoking them.
    dig.

    • felix 5.1

      Who’s provoking?

      And what if they are?

      What else constitutes “provoking”? Any song expressing a viewpoint that someone else in the room doesn’t like? Anything that makes the powerful feel uncomfortable?

      Fuck that and the slippery slope it slid in on.

      • higherstandard 5.1.1

        And your position on Paul Henry was ?

        • freedom 5.1.1.1

          TV One is a Public braodcaster
           
          A bar is a Private business
           
          try again

        • felix 5.1.1.2

          Irrelevant as I’m not recommending Tiki Tanee for a job hosting a show on TVNZ.
           
          p.s. I would pay good money to go to Illuminati and see Paul Henry do covers of 80s rap tunes. Srsly.

          • Rex Widerstrom 5.1.1.2.1

            He could do a cover of “Strictly Business” and sell it as the campaign theme for his old party 😀

          • higherstandard 5.1.1.2.2

            Na same thing – storm in a teacup, two examples of famous boys behaving like dicks when they should’ve known better and a gross over action to the ‘dick like’ behaviour.

            ANyhoo must be a boring news day if we’re fapping on about this shite.

            • felix 5.1.1.2.2.1

              I think you’re drawing a very long bow comparing the two events, but ok, I’ll play your silly game (as you said, it’s a slow day 🙂 )
               
              No, I don’t think Paul Henry should be arrested.
               
              And yes, if anyone is really offended by what Tiki did, they can always write to Illuminati and tell them they shouldn’t hire him anymore. Just like I wrote to TVNZ about Paul Henry.

      • g_man 5.1.2

        “Who’s provoking?”
        Um, do you actually know the lyrics to this?
        “I’m a sniper with a hell of a scope
        Takin out a cop or two, they can’t cope with me

        Takin out a police would make my day”
        Yeah, sure can’t see how any policeman is gonna feel intimidated by that …

        • felix 5.1.2.1

          It’s a song. If a police officer is intimidated by ANY song they’re in the wrong job. End of.

          • burt 5.1.2.1.1

            Walk into an Afro-American convention singing ‘Ol lordy pick a bail of cotton’ and see how you get on felix.

            • felix 5.1.2.1.1.1

              How is that in any way relevant, burt?

              • burt

                Apparently freedom of speech is absolute in your world. Perhaps you could have your own special version and sing; Hey Niger – pick a bail of cotton.  

                It’s your right to say whatever you want to anyone in any situation isn’t it ?

                • felix

                  You’ve misread me. I never said anything of the sort.

                  • burt

                    What else constitutes “provoking”? Any song expressing a viewpoint that someone else in the room doesn’t like? Anything that makes the powerful feel uncomfortable?
                    Fuck that and the slippery slope it slid in on.

                    No, you said nothing of the sort…..

                    • felix

                      Oh sorry burt, I forgot you can’t fucking read.
                       
                      Go look up the words “any” and “anything” and this curly symbol “?” , and when you’ve figured out what they all mean you can try reading my comment again.
                       
                      Then you can apologise.
                       
                      And then you can go fuck yourself.
                       
                      And no, I never said anything of the sort.

                    • burt

                      Fuck that and the slippery slope it slid in on….
                      Nailed yourself right there dude. Funny you didn’t reference all your quote while trying to wriggle out from you clear and obvious position of “f*ck the pigs” – big tough guy.

                    • felix

                      You’ve descended into your usual gibberish burt.
                       
                      Make a clear statement showing where I’ve said anything like what you allege.

                      (I know you’ve forgotten already, it was that I believe “It’s your right to say whatever you want to anyone in any situation”)

                    • burt

                      Your usual tactic felix, claim the other poster isn’t making sense, accuse them of being drunk (yet to come I guess) and deny deny deny.
                      You have clearly stated he should not have been arrested for singing songs which depict killing police – where is the limit in felixtopia.

                    • felix

                      That’s right burt, I did say that. I don’t think anyone should be arrested for singing songs which “depict” anything.
                       
                      And that’s a far cry from what YOU said I said.
                       
                      Let me know when you’ve finished going over my comments and realised that you were wrong.

                • IrishBill

                  I’m glad you’ve finally admitted the EFA was a good idea burt.

                  • burt

                    According to Labour it was a good law – that was until they were in opposition.

                    • IrishBill

                      I don’t care what labour think burt. But I’m glad you’ve finally come around.

                    • burt

                      I don’t think I have come around, I’m sorry I can’t be part of your self serving gaggle….

                      IrishBill: and that’s a week off for rude and ignorant presumption.

                    • Armchair Critic

                      Might pay to have another listen to Straight Outta Compton in your week off, burt, so you know what Fuck Tha Police was actually about.

        • freedom 5.1.2.2

          did your mother never teach you about sticks and stones,  sheesh

    • freedom 5.2

      you are right randal, the Nats should stop provoking the Police  ;]

  6. g_man 6

    Oh please. Being able to say “F**k the police” is now being held up as defending citizen’s right to free speech?

    So I wonder what would happen if I wandered into Illuminati and started chanting “F**k Tiki Taane and his fa-mi-ly! F**k Tiki Taane and his fa-mi-ly! F**k Tiki Taane …” How many people are going to start coming at me, but when I claim my “right to free speech”, meekly say “Oh well that’s fine” and leave me alone?

    Yeah right …

    In fact, you do not have an absolute “right to free speech”. Read the Summary Offences Act 1981 No 113, Section 4: Offensive Behaviour or Language, which basically states you can be fined if you behave in an offensive or disorderly manner in any pulic place, use threatening or insulting words, or use obscene words. You may not like this, but that’s the law.

    • felix 6.1

      He didn’t “wander in” to a bar and start chanting you moron, it was a gig.
       
      Go book a gig yourself and get on the mic if you think you’ve got something to say worth hearing. Let me know how that goes too.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 6.2

      The free speech right is only against government interference.

      It doesnt restrict private rights , ie the night club manager can kick you out if you hurl abuse .

      Surely you know this g-man .  You libertarians are all ways on about  private freedoms  from government

      • g_man 6.2.1

        Huh? “Libertarian”? Moi?
        Honestly, I’m struggling to see where you get that little gem from …

    • Bright Red 6.3

      you do not have an absolute “right to free speech”. Read the Summary Offences Act 1981 No 113, Section 4: Offensive Behaviour or Language, which basically states you can be fined if you behave in an offensive or disorderly manner in any pulic place, use threatening or insulting words, or use obscene words. You may not like this, but that’s the law.

       
      He hasn’t been charged under that, genius, because far worse language is heard all the time in public. he has been charged with disorderly conduct likely to incite violence.

      Being able to say “F**k the police” is now being held up as defending citizen’s right to free speech?

      Why not? You think that the song should be banned in this country? If so, say so.

    • freedom 6.4

      Gman – i was not comparing anything, i plainly stated that there are two events which will show how the new commissioner will interpret the role of the Police in enforcing law.
       
      Taane may have made a dumb move, but if ignorance is now a crime we are going to need a lot more prisons.
       
      I have been told that Tiki Taane performed a cover of a well known song that has been played regularly on NZ media and at numerous public concerts.
      He performed a song as Police entered a bar on a routine visit.  Nothing happened.  No violence no assault and more importantly no arrests.!
       
      An hour later, as the bar was closing the Police return complete with wagons, and begin to make arrests.  An hour during which nothing happened, no volience, no physical threats to person or property. nada.
       
      If anyone has reports that differ from these details please let us all know.

  7. felix 7

    I’ll be interested to find out whether they arrested him at the time he was singing the song in question (indicating that they perceived an actual threat from the song) or whether they came back later and arrested him (indicating revenge for being personally offended by the song).
     
    I’m pretty sure I know which it’ll be though, having witnessed this kind of bullshit by the NZ Police plenty of times before.

    • PeteG 7.1

      You have no idea what happened apart from “I’m pretty sure I know which it’ll be though”, you back the alleged offender, and “use threatening or insulting words, or use obscene words” directed at the police in a public forum.


      On the record, dumb bravado.

      • felix 7.1.1

        Yeah, that’s me taking a guess, based on all available media reports and my lived experience.
         
        I clearly labelled it as guesswork too. You could learn from that, genius.

      • Bright Red 7.1.2

        which words do you consider so threatening, insulting, or obscene that uttering them in front of police should be a crime?
        And, I remind you because you’re a fucken moron, Taane was arrested for disorderly behaviour, not for offensive behaviour

      • Deadly_NZ 7.1.3

        And even the Classic  Plaistow Patricia By Ian Dury and the Blockheads was tolerated by the police when it was played at them back in the days of the disco bars.  And for you who do not know the words    Google.

    • No they came back later at the end of the gig. I guess they had to go to their boss to find a “legal reason” to arrest him.

  8. g_man 8

    I didn’t say that he wandered into a bar felix. I know quite well that it was a gig. This makes my reasoning above faulty … how?
    Attack the argument if you wish. Calling me a moron because you haven’t the ability to respond to the argument is childish.

    • felix 8.1

      It makes your reasoning faulty because you equated it to yourself “wandering into Illuminati” and chanting.
       
      How did you forget typing that so quickly? It was ONLY 12 MINUTES between your comments.
       
      Wow.

      • g_man 8.1.1

        ** Sigh ** Ok, for the terminally stupid, or those who purposely refuse to see the point …

        Let’s say Tiki Taane is singing “F**k the police” at a Karaoke bar …
        And let’s say I get up straight after him and sing a song I made up that goes something like “F**k Tiki Taane and his fa-mi-ly! F**k Tiki Taane and his fa-mi-ly! F**k Tiki Taane …”

        One is applauded and held up as “defending a citizen’s right to free speech”

        One gets me beaten up by the bros.

        Why the difference?
         

        • wtl 8.1.1.1

          What you did was dumb, but not illegal. Those who beat you up should still be charged with assault, however.

          ps. Its pretty bad if you expect the standards upheld by the police to be only as good as those upheld by ‘the bros’

        • felix 8.1.1.2

          Why do you have to make up imaginary scenarios about kareoke? Why not discuss what actually happened?
           
          Oh that’s right, because no-one got beaten up and there was probably nothing actually illegal about it.

          • freedom 8.1.1.2.1

            i suspect gman thinks Taane was arrested for what he said not a trumped up charge based on something that never eventuated and his little brain cannot see the difference or begin to see the line they crossed
             

        • bbfloyd 8.1.1.3

          the difference?  for the willfully stupid, … one is addressing an organisation, … the other is addressing a person.   can you not tell the difference between ranting about an impersonal agency and insulting someone on an entirely personal level?
          so it would be cool for us to make a song like that about your mother?

          • Vicky32 8.1.1.3.1

            so it would be cool for us to make a song like that about your mother?

            Sadly, I fear that you would… (plural you.) I’ve got pretty disillusioned about the Standard of late, because even if there’s a good argument against a point of view someone expresses, sooner or later, sadly usually sooner, y’all start calling someone a “F**king moron” and attacking his or her family.
            Very childish reindeer games. It comes to school-yard bullying.

            [Sorry Vicky – it’s a fine line for we moderators. We try to stamp out vile language and behaviour, while not interfering with robust discussion between adults. I appreciate that we don’t get the dividing line in a place that suits everyone. — r0b]

          • Bright Red 8.1.1.3.2

            “so it would be cool for us to make a song like that about your mother?”
            It wouldn’t be an arrestable offence. That’s the only question here.

        • Bright Red 8.1.1.4

          Let’s say Tiki Taane is singing “F**k the police” at a Karaoke bar …
          And let’s say I get up straight after him and sing a song I made up that goes something like “F**k Tiki Taane and his fa-mi-ly! F**k Tiki Taane and his fa-mi-ly! F**k Tiki Taane …”
          One is applauded and held up as “defending a citizen’s right to free speech”
          One gets me beaten up by the bros.

          there’s no difference. You’re acting legally and so it Tiki Taane. It is illegal for the ‘bros’ (nice touch of racism) to beat you up, and the police have no right to arrest you either time.

  9. randal 9

    hey felix.
    f*ck you.

  10. bbfloyd 10

    All i can say is thank god they got to him before he started singing the words backwards…. Yet another minion of the devil thwarted.
     

  11. Treetop 11

    “Disorderly conduct likely to incite violence.”

    Just looked at the Folan verdict.  “An angry officer still has a job to do and to be angry is not an offence.”  “The fundamental point here is for either or all of these to succeed there must have been a reasonable balance between the threat the accused believed he felt and the amount of force used.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4876448/Police-sergeant-accused-of-assault-not-guilty

    What is the difference between the above story and the Folan verdict?  One is  verbal and the other is physical.

    The police just do not get it how threatening they can be and then they wonder why a person responds disrespectfully.  Respect is a two way street.  
     

    • bbfloyd 11.1

      “the police do not get it how threatening they can be, and then they wonder why a person responds disrespectfully.”  good point treetop… very apt .
      i would add that there is a level of knowledge on the effect they have… i have seen them deliberately incite tensions in order to facilitate successful arrests.
      you may remember the “flying squads” operating in auckland during the seventies and early eighties.

      • Treetop 11.1.1

        I worked in a police barracks in the mid 1970s when I was age 16.  I learnt very quickly how bonded they were.  You can crack the wall, but you cannot take it down where bastard cops are concerned.  The more honest and decent ones do not tend to stay in the job. 

  12. MikeE 12

    Illuminati is private property.  Its not the police’s role to dictate what music is played or sung regardless of whether they are offended in *private* property. 

    If it was out on the street they might have a reason to take issue.  

    Of course the standard doesnt’ really care about private property rights – but heres a case where you might like to care about them.

    The state has no role in dictating what is said/performed on private property, regardless of whom is offended.

    • g_man 12.1

      Nope. From the Summary Offences Act, “Public place means a place that, at any material time, is open to or is being used by the public, whether free or on payment of a charge”.
      I admit I don’t know for sure, but I’m guessing this wasn’t a private concert – ie that the public were in fact able to attend (buy a ticket, pay the cover charge, whatever).

      • MikeE 12.1.1

        Well I’ve been at the Big day out where Atari Teenage Riot started playing the exact same track, as police were in the venue. Funnily enough nothing was done about it..

        double standards much?  

        If you are going to enforce ridiculous censorship to protect someone sensibilities – you should at least be consistant…

  13. randal 13

    how does it feel, to be without a home, like a complete unknown, like a rolling stone?

  14. higherstandard 14

    With no direction known.

  15. Mac1 15

    Plenty of talk here without regard to or knowledge of the facts.

    The ChCh Press says that the singer began singing the song when the police made an appearance at the night club. Several people made that claim.

    The nightclub was revisited by police after the bar closed at 3 a.m. to speak with staff and entertainers. Then, a witness claimed, things got out of hand. A twenty four year old man was also arrested.

    It seems plenty of witnesses were present at both scenes, hopefully sober enough to be clear in their testimony, from among the police, patrons, staff, and the Club who are reportedly ‘with Tiki.”

    I would leave it to the judicial process to see it through. There is a law and it will be tested in court.

    • freedom 15.1

      So there is only one question to answer
       
      What were the Police doing revisiting the bar at 3am when there was no obvious need for their prescence. No violence, no calls for emergency services or Police assistance from the owners or duty managers.  If it was to discuss the earlier events regarding the impromptu cover of a widely performed song then surely there are more sensible times and environments to have those discussions.
       
      Are the Police seriously saying there were no more pressing matters in the area at 3 am in the morning, a time period that is repeatedly stated by Police as one of their most active and under-resourced periods.
       
       

  16. SHG 16

    Was Taane performing the song “Fuck the Police” or did he just start shouting “fuck the police” over the PA?

    • felix 16.1

      The song, from all accounts.

    • Mac1 16.2

      The ChCh Press says both. Several people at the show say he started singing “F*** the Police” when they visited and others say he was singing the NWA song.

      • felix 16.2.1

        Err, those are the same thing.

        • Mac1 16.2.1.1

          Maybe. Was it a part of the song, or a separate chant? I don’t know, wasn’t there. The Press reports allows both possibilities. This account was unclear.

          • felix 16.2.1.1.1

            If you a) know the song and b) know the definition of the word “song” then you’ll find that those two possibilities still amount to much the same thing.

            edit: Sorry, I see what you mean now. It’s irrelevant whether he was performing a 23 year old NWA song or a brand new song he made up on the spot or some combination of both.

          • Bright Red 16.2.1.1.2

            the song is called ‘F*ck the police’.
            idiot.

            • grumpy 16.2.1.1.2.1

              I heard the interview, he said he only sang 2 lines – that is not “a song”, that is a “statement”.

              • Bright Red

                so what?
                You support it if it’s a song but not if it is a statement but your own silly definitions?

    • Brett 16.3

      Started singing it when the police walked in.
      Captcha  : silly

      • felix 16.3.1

        Silly considering the nature of the NZ Police and their habit of stepping outside the law to use their powers of arrest to punish people they take a disliking to regardless of whether an offense has been committed?
         
        Yep.

        • Brett 16.3.1.1

          Mate, the police put up with a lot of nonsense, last thing they need is this fucking asshat trying to stir shit.
          The guys in his mid 30’s, he needs too grow the fuck up.
           

          • felix 16.3.1.1.1

            Not the issue.
             
            If you think the police putting up with “a lot of nonsense” gives them a license to dish out punishments as they see fit then you’re living in the wrong kind of society.
             
            That is authoritarian, “might is right” bullshit whichever way you slice it.

          • freedom 16.3.1.1.2

            Brett, nothing happened when he sang the song. Just as nothing happened at any of the dozens of gigs that this track has been played at throughout New Zealand, many with extreme Police presence.   I personally have seen this track played in Police presence during the 90’s a few times, and then they did the smart move and left as they knew being there was not needed.
             
            this entire story starts an hour or so later after the unrequested and unwarranted return of the Police to the bar and their decision to create a confrontation

            • PeteG 16.3.1.1.2.1

              this entire story starts an hour or so later after the unrequested and unwarranted return of the Police to the bar and their decision to create a confrontation

              How do you know their return was unrequested (it quite possibly was unrequested) and unwarranted. The latter is far more subjective. It’s unlikely but possible the police returned for an autograph.
               
              How do you know the police made a decision to create a confrontation?
               

              • Colonial Viper

                I think police need to be focussing efforts and presence on where there is danger to persons and property PeteG and from witness reports there, there was none.

              • freedom

                reliable sources have told me that none of the owners, the duty managers or any members of the Public present at the event called the Police at any time during the evening.

                No disturbance occurred at the bar untill after the arrival of the Police at closing time and their decision to arrest an Artist for supposed incitement to create violence.  What violence?
                 
                Nothing had happened !   PeteG, do you understand that ?
                 
                he sang a song the Police did not like . end of story  .  now come up with a sensible argument or stop wasting data space .

                • PeteG

                  Like you (apart from your limited hearsay), I don’t know what happened.
                  The police may have been stupid up themselves prats.
                  The band may have been stupid up themselves prats.
                  Or both.
                   
                  Police visiting licensed premises is not out of the ordinary. How do you know the incitement to create violence didn’t happen when the police returned?
                  Or do you know for sure they returned regarding the earlier song?
                  Perhaps during the gig they believed that the band tried to incite violence, and they wisely decided to wait until the crowd had gone before they returned to take action.

                  Was the song just being sung, or were the words being directed at any of the police? There’s a big difference between:
                  “Fuck the police da de da”
                  and
                  “Fuck the police!” while staring at a policeman.
                   
                  There are many possibilities.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    There’s a big difference between:
                    “Fuck the police da de da”
                    and
                    “Fuck the police!” while staring at a policeman.

                    Pfffft, the police had better things to do that night than slice the subtleties of whether or not they were looked at the wrong way.

            • felix 16.3.1.1.2.2

              I’m seeing far too much of this sort of mentality from the police in the last few years.
               
              An example (from the softer end of the scale) from a month ago: Police officer turns up at a party. Tells the host that the music is too loud and must be turned down. Host asks for the paperwork, turns out there isn’t any because there hasn’t been a complaint.
               
              The cop had just driven by and decided of his own volition that he would wander in and start dictating behaviour.
               
              I think they’re hungry for ASBOs and they’re behaving as if they already have them.
               
               
               
               

  17. freedom 17

    I can think of a number of upcoming gigs where there will most definitely be an additional track on the playlist

    • felix 17.1

      Indeed 😀

    • That’s precisely the way to handle this. Also, get your hands on a copy of this track and put it on your car stereo – on “repeat” if you can stand it, and drive round wth the windows down. Park next to police cars at the lights. Memorise the lyrics and sing them while waiting for the bus…

      Flood NZ with the song till the cops start hearing it in their sleep.

      If we wanna get really creative, raise a few million and pay Kiri Te Kanawa to come over and do a cover version 😀

      Okay, I’ll stop now…

      [lprent: Probably wise. It was getting very close to a “crimes against humanity” level. Especially the Kiri cover version. Next you’ll be getting british opera singers covering the sex pistols. ]

      • travellerev 17.2.1

        And all blogs should link to a cool version of the song.
        Here’s my choice: Rage Against the Machine

        • Rex Widerstrom 17.2.1.1

          There’s a Rage Against version that accompanies a video that perfectly illustrates what quite possibly happened here. A couple of clowns think it’d be funny to “tell a cop to fuck off”, so one gets out the car while the other films it.

          The asshat duly tells the cop to fuck off. I think anyone would excuse the cop for telling said citizen the same thing but no, he draws his baton and starts mercilessly beating the guy, chasing him all the way back to the car in what is clearly blind rage.

          There’s other instances of brutality as well, bizarrely mixed with scenes from fictional movies, but the first one shows that mindset of police perfectly. If most people were insulted on the basis of our job we’d be upset, angry even… but enough to hand out a severe beating?

          Wonder if I can use this video as a defence if I clobber someone who’s called me a “crim cuddler” on Kiwiblog? 😀

          For those who want a more soothing visual image, there’s always the Muppets version.

          (You may need to log in, as YouTube considers the content “objectionable”… but I presume they mean the lyrics, not the violent assault)

      • Daveosaurus 17.2.2

        Next you’ll be getting british opera singers covering the sex pistols.”


        … I’d happily pay good money to hear that. Sounds like a lot of fun. More fun than the Pistols’ own versions, anyway.

  18. Alun 18

    So the police turned up at 3am after there had been no violence, and in doing so they incited violence, but it was not them that got arrested.  Seems wierd that they arrested Tiki for something that they themselves did and the accused did not!

  19. Blondie 19

    Wonder whether there’ll be a sudden run on Straight Outta Compton cds at JB Hifi and Real Groovy?

    Loved that album.  Don’t know whatever happened to it – most likely my parents binned it.  🙂

  20. meanwhile Folan goes free, despite the testimony of 6 other officers who said they witnessed him beating prisoners

  21. Oleolebiscuitbarrell 21

    Zet, where do you stand on legislating to prevent so-called “hate speech”?

    • Bright Red 21.1

      more relevant question: where do you stand on the police arresting and charging people with disorderly conduct for being a singer singing a song in their presence that they don’t like?
      And do you look forward to agents of the state being allowed to decide what you may sing when they’re around?

  22. felix 22

    Question time. See you later, fasc1sts

  23. freedom 23

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/entertainment/4875649/Tiki-Taane-arrested-over-rap-song
     
    so there are no charges being laid, i think that pretty well validates the thoughts that most fair minded people were sharing today.  The Police were wrong and this will be as close as we can get to them admitting such.
     
     
     
     

    • PeteG 23.1

      He says he was arrested:

      – who will appear in the Tauranga District Court on Friday – said he was arrested at an R18 concert in Tauranga at 3.25am on Sunday.
      “I was handcuffed and taken to the cells where I spent the rest of the night,” he said in his statement.

      That article clarifies some things.

      The acting area commander for Western Bay of Plenty, Inspector Karl Wright St-Clair, said they had visited the club earlier that night as part of their regular pub checks across the region.

      He said because of an incident that happened during the visit, police returned after the bar closed at 3am to speak to staff and entertainers.

      When they approached Taane afterwards “things got out of hand”, a witness said. A 24-year-old man was also arrested.

      • freedom 23.1.1

        as always when i make a mistake i own it, (you may wish to learn from that PeteG)
         
        I mis read the article.  to be fair I was too busy doing my Munch at Bennett’s answers in the house.  I misread the Stuff report and it is the promoter and the DJ who are not facing any charges from the events of the evening
         
        So anyway…  If  ‘reciting the lyric’ really is the charge this will be a waste of taxpayers money, for starters, this song has been played on TVNZ, many commercial radio stations, and i bet there are more than a few members of the Police who own it in their personal collections.  If there had been any actual violence against Poilce during or immediately after this peformance then i certainly would agree that charges of inciting violence would have to be defended.  But “likely to cause violence’ as a reason for a court case? Hell we better get the WWF on the phone and warn them because no-one creates a greater ‘likely to cause violence’ environment than professional wrestling.
        The comparison to Tiki Taane singing Fuck the Police?  think about it

  24. Of course this isn’t the first time the Police have escalated at situation during a concert that was peaceful, and started trouble with their overt aggression. 1984, anyone?

    I still recall a gang member telling me, back in the 80s, that the difference between his mob and the police was that the latter had “better uniforms and more weapons”. Things haven’t changed.

  25. Cabbage 25

    I’m usually the first to admonish people for displaying a lack of respect for the NZ Police – I’ve had a fair amount of dealings with them over the years, mostly on the right side of the law. And for the most part they are good bastards. They also have a difficult job and daily have to put up with belligerent little scrotes and toerags.
    HOWEVER. When the fuck did the police become chief censor? When did it become their role to decide who can play what and where? They dont like it? So? Were any of them Assulted? No. (they may have been insulted, but dude, grow some more skin)
    It seems to me is all the police did that night was confirm a stereotype and made the topic of the song entirely relevant (read the lyrics). If they had just gone about their business, then perhaps Tiki’s message would have been redundant.
    captcha: Voice
     

  26. Samuel Hill 26

    Guys. Tiki should have known better. If any of you have ever been to Tauranga on a weekend night, you know how much work the cops have to do there.

    He got arrested. I’ve been arrested at concerts and rugby games for simply being with people who had a fight. I am not stupid enough to start singing “fuck the police”. Did Tiki do it in response to police presence, or was it just chance that the cops were there? No he did it in response. How many times I’ve been at a party, when cops turn up and someone puts fuck the police on the stereo. Its just stupid. 

    What would you expect if stood up in a bar and started saying “fuck the All Blacks” or even worse, if you ran into a marae and started saying “fuck Maoris”??? You would get your head smacked in.

    Do you think that these cops are just supposed to grin and bare it? 

    The cop probably was making a point, but good on him.

    And I am not naive. I know how scum a lot of cops are. But for Tiki to try and spin this as freedom of speech and that he is the victim is just ridiculous.

    • Bright Red 26.1

      This isn’t about whether you agree with what Taane said or not.
      It’s about whether he should have been arrested and charged.
      If we could legally do what Samuel Hill would do in a given situation it would be a boring world.

      • Samuel Hill 26.1.1

        He was arrested to prove a point. He probably won’t end up facing charges. If he does they won’t be very serious – maybe breaching the peace. Hopefully he learnt his lesson. Its like school almost. It isn’t as big a deal as Tiki and others are is making out. He isn’t going to jail.

        • PeteG 26.1.1.1

          He already spent the night in a cell – that may have been a standard “sober up and pull your head in”.

        • felix 26.1.1.2

          He was arrested to prove a point.
           

          If that’s the case then the police have broken the law and the arrest was illegal.
           
          It is not the role of the police to teach anyone a “lesson”.

          • Samuel Hill 26.1.1.2.1

            Cops break the law every time they let somebody off on a crime too. Giving somebody a ‘warning’ for speeding, or letting you off the hook when they catch you smoking a joint at a concert. I’m content with him spending a few hours in the cells for swearing at a cop in front of a drunken crowd. Most people would get that.

            • felix 26.1.1.2.1.1

              Err, no. The police having discretion over which breaches they follow up doesn’t mean they get to make up whole new laws on a whim.
               

              I’m content with him spending a few hours in the cells for swearing at a cop in front of a drunken crowd
               

              So what? You don’t get to make up new laws either.
               
              Do you even know what the issue here is? It’s not the role of the police to punish ANYONE for ANYTHING. Do you get that?
               
               

              • Samuel Hill

                The police are called upon to do above and beyond their duty every day, mate. Not every law is perfect, but if there was a massive injustice here, I could empathize with the outrage. What doesn’t make this outrageous is the fact that Tiki was obviously goading the policeman. What the fuck do you expect the cop to do – grin a bare it??? In this case the police chose not to ignore the antagonist behaviour. He can’t blame anyone but himself. Seriously, if I had been arrested for singing “Fuck the Police”, I would be embarrassed about my immature behaviour.

                I don’t know if the police acted legally – I’m thinking that they do have the powers to arrest based on disorderly behaviour or breach of the peace. If Tiki’s story stacks up he shouldn’t be getting more than a slap on the wrist, or maybe he’ll have to use his diversion (I don’t know, are you allowed a diversion at his age?)

                • felix

                  It’s got nothing to do with what I think is fair or what you think is immature.
                   
                  Punishment is not part of the role of the police. Do you understand that or not?

                  • Samuel Hill

                    How do you mean that? Punishment is clearly part of their job in some circumstances. In some cases Police are legally obliged to dish out the ultimate punishment.

                    • felix

                      That’s where you’re seriously mistaken. It is never the job of the police to decide on or mete out any sort of punishment.
                       
                      That is strictly the preserve of the courts.
                       
                      This separation of powers is fundamental to our justice system. Can you imagine a society where the same people who enforce the law get to decide whether you’re guilty and what your punishment is?
                       
                      That’s Judge Dredd’s world, Sam. Ours doesn’t work like that.

                    • rosy

                      Police are obliged to maintain order and apprehend alleged law-breakers. Punishment is never part of the job.  The judicial system dishes out punishments that the corrections service administers.  Crucial distinctions in a country that values democracy. The question here is was there any sense that order was not going to be maintained? The eyewitness accounts suggest there was no disorder.

                    • Samuel Hill

                      Well that might work in theory, felix. However if you check the history, you will find many occasions that Police have made those decisions.Unfortunately you can’t call up a jury to decide on what to do to a criminal during a heated situation.

                      It is a punishment in itself to have cuffs put on you. Is it not?
                      Tiki still has his day in court doesn’t he? The police had a legal right to keep him in the cells for a few hours. It happens in every town across NZ every week. 

                    • felix

                      It’s not theory Sam. It’s the very basis of our system of law and order.
                       
                      I don’t mean to be rude, you seem like a cool guy but in this instance you don’t seem to have any idea what you’re talking about.
                       

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Samuel Hill has no idea. Placing handcuffs on a suspect is not a “punishment”.
                       
                      For starters no guilt has been determined. Secondly, restraints like handcuffs are often used for the protection of people and property with no element of punishment considered.
                       
                      Is it my imagination or are these Righties getting dumber?

    • Samuel Hill 26.2

      So being thrown in the cells for a few hours isn’t punishment? Like a parent who sends a child to their room to ‘cool off’ isn’t punishment? I say it is punishment. It may not be by the book, but it happens all the time. I am not a lawyer, but I understand that when you are in cuffs you are not in control of your life, and that is a punishment in my eyes.

      I’m not even a “Righty”!!! 

      Will any of you admit that Tiki was childish, and broke the law? And now he is lucky to have people like you who kick up a stink about the ‘legality’ of the police’s actions. They didn’t beat him up, they didn’t abuse. They just got him to pull his head in for a fews hours. Maybe it was a power play on the police’s behalf? But Tiki was using his power to incite hatred towards the police.

      Sorry, I must sound like a fascist. I am not. I just don’t see the point in siding with Tiki in this case, when he was the one being a dickhead.

      • Bright Red 26.2.1

        “Will any of you admit that Tiki was childish, and broke the law?”
        There is a world of difference between being childish and breaking the law.
        I think Tiki was being childish but it’s clearly not illegal to sing a few lines of NWA’s ‘F*ck the police’
        In a free society, you get arrested when you do something illegal, not when you do something childish.

        • Samuel Hill 26.2.1.1

          Well maybe we should be discussing the idea of a free society. Everyone has their different idea of what that means.

          Some people might think even having police in society is intruding on their freedom.

          No matter what we think of the police, I don’t think its OK to be singing inflammatory and abusive songs about Police when they are in your presence. This is my view. If you did it to anyone else it would cause an argument. Cops have to keep their veil of power. While police exist we have to accept that we can’t try and make them look stupid. He has been arrested, and released. He isn’t starving in a cell waiting for his corrupt trial. He will go to court on friday and see if he gets a REAL punishment, although in my eyes, I think he has probably already been disciplined.

          • Colonial Viper 26.2.1.1.1

            No matter what we think of the police, I don’t think its OK to be singing inflammatory and abusive songs about Police when they are in your presence.

            So singing songs or chanting against law enforcement authorities should be a criminal offence that you can be arrested and charged for? Just like happens in Egypt or Iran or Bahrain?
             
            That’s your vision of New Zealand?

            He will go to court on friday and see if he gets a REAL punishment, although in my eyes, I think he has probably already been disciplined.

            So you think adults should be treated like children? Give them a good scare and make them fall into line?

            • PeteG 26.2.1.1.1.1

              So singing songs or chanting against law enforcement authorities should be a criminal offence that you can be arrested and charged for? Just like happens in Egypt or Iran or Bahrain?

              It depends on how, where and why.
               
              If you witnessed the boozed up obnoxious stupidity directed against the police and the fire service in situations like the Dunedin student riots you would understand it can inflame more than a few couches.

              If gig turned turned wils and the crowd started smashing his gear and set fire to his vehicle who would Taane turn to?

              • Free Willy

                You witnessed that? Surely you noticed another example of the police going beyond the call of duty to pepper spray innocent bystanders through their own bedroom windows then…
                PS. Sorry for the tangent it’s just a tender point which does relate to the pig headed attitude (pun intended), of police officers shown in the Tiki Taane incident.

            • Samuel Hill 26.2.1.1.1.2

              If you’re being immature then you should be treated in a manner which might get you to pull your head in. If thats treating someone like a child then, wow I’m sorry but don’t be so fucking immature then??

              “So you think adults should be treated like children? Give them a good scare and make them fall into line?”

              Most people who come here onto this site and debate things have an understanding of how to behave in social circumstances. I don’t think abusing a policeman during an alcohol and drug fueled gig on The Strand in Tauranga, where violence is possible is a smart thing to be doing. I don’t think it is at all comparable to anything happening in Egypt or Iran or Bahrain. Would anyone using this website be foolish enough to start singing “Fuck The Police” when they saw a cop? No, I doubt it. Tiki did because he believed he was the one in power, because he had the mic. Sorry Tiki, but YOU abused YOUR power.
              Until we are ready to take the authorities on with our full might  we should be very careful of trying to be a ‘hard man’ in front of a cop. I have disdain for this system, but I am not silly enough to start a confrontation saying “fuck the police” it IS childish. If he had made a direct, intelligent comment about the police coming into the gig and checking then this never would have happened. But he chose to cause a spectacle at his gig by reciting Ice Cube’s lyric. Well sorry mate, but if I said “fuck the police” to a cop in front of my mates and tried to look cool, I would be the one looking like a cock and depending how intimidating we were, I would probably get arrested, and released, and MAYBE have to go to court. 

              This whole system treats us like children.

  27. M 27

    Having a kid who has sworn a lot due to frustration and annoyed neighbours who have then threatened me with the police, I phoned the police to check out the situation. The officer I spoke with said that as swearing is so prevalent these days they generally don’t bother and that for most officers the test was the venom with which the words were uttered towards a person in particular and whether threatening behaviour was in the offing. He then advised me to get the community constable to speak to a particularly uptight neighbour about pulling her head in and to be cognizant of what ADHD can entail for parents.

    In this case it would appear that the words were being said in general and not to anyone in particular and some cops have got their knickers in a knot.

  28. MrSmith 28

    People are starting to get angry, great, so they should be!

  29. Anita 29

    O’Connor will renew call for cops to be armed.

    When I read this I thought “Damien O’Connor” – and it’s actually quite believable.

    • millsy 29.1

      I’m sure that Greg O Conner would be in demand among the police forces of Iran, China, North Korea, Sudan, Libya, Zimbabwe, etc…

      • Anita 29.1.1

        When I was leafletting in Manners Mall about Clint Rickards a passerby stopped to rant at me about just how evil Greg O’Connor is. I was impressed that he had inspired such dislike in someone who said she didn’t particularly follow the news.

    • Vicky32 29.2

      When I read this I thought “Damien O’Connor” – and it’s actually quite believable.

      Tut tut, you do sound just a tad spiteful!

      • felix 29.2.1

        And you still sound a bit homophobic. That is what you meant, right? That Anita was being all mean about O’Connor just because he’s a homophobe and that’s not nice – that is what you meant, right?

        • Vicky32 29.2.1.1

          Hey Felix, Obsessed much? Yes, that;s what I meant, and so what of it? Y’all seem to have decided that suddenly he’s bad and evil and wrong, because he dissed teh gay…
          You’ve decided he’s a homophobe and that’s that… He could rescue 10 kids from a burning building, but because you think he’s a homophobe, he’s Hitler, a point Millsy was obsessively making yesterday. See, it’s that kind of thing that turned me from fag hag to homophobe (although I hate the word. If I was to call you a heterophobe, or a gynophobe, which is just as likely, or probably more so) that doesn’t mean you actually are that thing! 😀 )
           

          • Samuel Hill 29.2.1.1.1

            All I know is that there sure are some highly sensitive people around.

            No wonder our generation of pussies is allowing our daddys and granddaddys to destroy our futures.

            Thanks.

          • felix 29.2.1.1.2

            Wow, you’ve made up quite a lot of stuff there Vicky. Did you notice?
             
            Where did you get the bit about the burning building? Weird stuff.
             
            Why do you think it’s likely I’m gynophobic?

            • Vicky32 29.2.1.1.2.1

              “Where did you get the bit about the burning building? Weird stuff.”
              It’s what is called ‘a hypothetical’. Surely you get the concept?

              “Why do you think it’s likely I’m gynophobic?”
              That was based on my assumption that you’re gay. There are such things as gynophobic straights, but with straight men, it’s not a given as it is with gays.
               
               

              • felix

                Oh ok. So you’re mental.

              • g_man

                No Vicky32, unfortunately felix doesn’t get the concept of “hypothetical”. See his response to me at 12:33 pm yesterday – comment 8.1.1.2.

                • Pascal's bookie
                  nah. Hypotheticals usually pose a question. 
                  In your instance, your hypothetical was not the same type of thing as the reality it was supposed to resemble. So any question it posed would be beside the point.  In Vicky’s, she just makes up some weird shit and pretends to know how people would react to it.
      • Anita 29.2.2

        Vicky32,

        What exactly do you think i sound spiteful about?

        I am disappointed, as I have been for many years, that the Labour Party promotes and supports the kind of socially, environmentally and morally backward ideas that Damien O’Connor has consistently represented in Parliament. 

        Is it spiteful to say that? Or to say it on a centre-left blog? If so, it’s lovely to see you so diligently protecting the Labour Party and The Standard.

  30. her 30

    If I’m sitting at the lights and that song comes on the radio and the po pull up beside me am I now a criminal?

    What if I turn it up real loud?

  31. randal 31

    anybody who listens to all that niggers with attitide crap cant be taken serioulsy.
    In the USA its all vanity publishing of crack dealers from the projects who woant to show the peasants how big and tuff they are.
    removed to new zealand its just mouthy stuff to piss off pakehas.
    why doesn’t tiki tane do something about all the nasty little creeps with their noisy little jappers who like to fart in public and then run away.
    we can do without that for a start.

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