Fight you bastards fight

Written By: - Date published: 9:26 am, October 23rd, 2013 - 49 comments
Categories: bill english, election 2014, john key, Judith Collins, national, same old national - Tags: ,

fight scene

Another day and another piece of information of the Brown – Palino debacle.  This latest piece is that Len was tipped off indirectly by a National MP on October 7 that news of the affair would break.  It is then that he chose to tell his wife.  And it may be that that the whole National Caucus knew about it.  If this was the case I would not be surprised as politicians are the most dreadful gossips and they would be tripping over themselves to pass this on.

The original source of the information about the affair has to be Luigi Wewege.  How a National MP could find out about the affair yet Slater and Palino not be told about it is improbable in the extreme.  This latest piece of information shows that senior National figures have been involved and I bet there is a scurry of activity within Parliament as advisers try and assess what damage this is causing to the National Party.

A recent comment by Bad12 deserves to be put into a post of its own.  He is responding to lprent’s excellent post yesterday on how Cameron Slater may actually be a gift to the left.

It is interesting that now even Trevor Mallard is on the Labour train as it moves forward and the train has definitely left the station.  Suddenly Labour is united and National is looking deeply, deeply fractured.

John Key came out yesterday with claims that Labour will somehow do nothing about the Sky City deal.  This was probably the number one suggestion on his Crosby Textor provided list of things to raise to try and divert attention from the clusterfuck that is the John Palino campaign for the Auckland Mayoralty.  While these diversionary attempts may have worked in the past they now look very cynical.  The political tide is going out on John Key and suddenly he is no longer teflon coated.  He is looking tired and his diversionary attempts are looking very cynical.

Anyway over to Bad12.

Lolz, what a excellent piece of journalism, all I could think while reading it was “fight you bastards fight”.

A fight like this isn’t going to disappear anytime soon, it’s a smouldering ruin spurred on by Nationals abysmal polling and it will now morph into the dog chasing it’s tail as the support base in Auckland walks away from National not being able to stand the stench.

The ramifications of this explosion within Nationals elite arm of movers and shakers will sooner or later become apparent in the Parliament.

I picked Slippery the Prime Minister’s recent prolonged sojourn into the heady realm of international diplomacy as Judith Collin’s best chance to roll Him for the leadership position and I am going to assume here it is in fact the abysmally low polling numbers that have in fact stopped her leadership challenge albeit temporarily so.

Having picked Maurice Williamson quite some time ago as one quietly painting a large target on the back of Slippery the PM I am not surprised now that he is showing up in more mainstream commentary as the “other half” of the Collins leadership ticket, it was obvious when Slippery urged Maurice to take up the Speaker’s role in the Parliament that he was trying to get rid of Maurice and just as obvious from Williamson’s refusal to take the Speakers Chair (usually followed by a plum ambassadorial role), that he had “unfinished business”.

I am picking that Collins/Williamson, one or the other astutely reading the political landscape, have decided amidst the National Government’s dramatic fall from electoral grace that they will face after November 2014 a Labour/Green Government of at least two terms and that there is far more to be gained by playing the waiting game.

Should this be true I would expect Collins/Williamson to “allow” Bill English to take the National Party leadership into the first term of Opposition in what is beginning to have the faint whiff of a total electoral rout for National.

Expect then a woeful election fought by Bill English as leader in 2017 followed by a Collins/Williamson takeover soon after, of course they just might be able to scrape together the numbers to roll Slippery prior to the 2014 election but time for this to gain the pair any political traction is fast running out,

I can only add again, fight you bastards, fight …

Update:  Here is a link to the Metro editorial that Bryce Edwards refers to, h/t Pascal’s bookie.

In it Simon Wilson says:

I’d first heard the rumour about 10 days [before election day], and was also told “The National Party caucus” knew about it too. The word was that Slater was going to publish in election week, but because he didn’t, I had assumed the rumour was false. Duh.

A few things now seem clear. One is that Brown is an idiot. Another is that the stench of depravity emanating from this affair comes largely from Slater and his little gang, not from Brown and his erstwhile lover Bevan Chuang. A third, following the golden rule of gossip, is that if I heard there was a scandal in the wings, and if some National Party MPs knew, then a great many people on the centre-right of Auckland politics probably also knew.

49 comments on “Fight you bastards fight ”

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  1. Tat Loo 1
    23 October 2013 at 10:08 am

    bad12, you certainly have a nuanced turn of phrase 🙂

  2. The Lone Haranguer 2
    23 October 2013 at 10:10 am

    I think you are dreaming to think that the Nats are already dead in the water.

    Regrettably (for any party) if you only talk with like minded folk, you will always have everyone agreeing with you, and that will further reinforce your belief that you are 100% correct in your summation of the “facts”

    Politics is, and will always be a black art.

    The senior Nats havent asked the right questions regarding who knew what and who leaked what, because they cant be seen to know the answers. But Labour did seem to use exactly the same approach around the Taito Phillip Field accusations and supported him pretty much till he chose not to support them. Then they hung him out to dry. But he never bit them back.

    The Nats cant hang Luigi out to dry, because they know, and we know too, that the bugger will put all their dirty laundry in the public domain. Luigi will bite back for sure.

    The tide for the Nats is certainly going out, but they arent dead in the water simply because they can (and will) make good capital around the huge differences in Green and Labour policies and the likely instability that such a marriage of convenience will bring.

    • Lanthanide 2.1
      23 October 2013 at 10:22 am

      Winston was on the radio yesterday saying he knows there is proof that Key knew about Dotcom prior to the raid, and that once that proof comes out Key is goneburger.

      • Populuxe1 2.1.1
        23 October 2013 at 12:00 pm

        Winston has a habit of saying things like that – the Peter Dunne thing, for example – and not following through. What he means is that he thinks he knows something exists but he doesn’t know what or where it is.

        • felix 2.1.1.1
          23 October 2013 at 1:54 pm

          Winston is a lawyer.

          He knows when to stop telling the story.

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.1.1.1.1
            23 October 2013 at 2:00 pm

            “Winston is a lawyer.”

            Sort of. He was first elected to Parliament in 1978 at the age of 33. Not much lawyering lately.

            • Te Reo Putake 2.1.1.1.1.1
              23 October 2013 at 3:08 pm

              Er, actually, he’s just had 3 years away from Parliament to upgrade his lawyerly skills. I’m pretty sure he hasn’t forgetten which party gave him that opportunity.

              • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                23 October 2013 at 6:45 pm

                Except I don’t think he did any actual lawyering during that period.

    • Zorr 2.2
      23 October 2013 at 10:31 am

      It takes time to turn any situation around and at the moment the Nats are sinking *very* fast

      And the timing couldn’t be worse – John Key isn’t just going to shuffle off, he has to either be knifed in the back by his own party or removed from the position through being completely untenable (i.e. through the Dotcom court case bringing him down)

      So – once National quit the infighting (and who knows when that will happen) whoever ends up at the helm will have to unify the party and then get them headed in the same direction. But there is an election next year – can it be turned around on a dime? I don’t think so.

      • King Kong 2.2.1
        23 October 2013 at 10:35 am

        That’s brilliant Zorr.

        A truly spectacular accidental knifing of the Labour party.

        • Zorr 2.2.1.1
          23 October 2013 at 10:41 am

          huh? Does your comment make any sense when you reread it?

          Or are you just making shit up as you go and excreting it on to the internet?

    • Tat Loo 2.3
      23 October 2013 at 10:38 am

      I tend to agree with you TLH.

      The NATs have lost their composure but only for the moment, and we would be foolish to think that they will not try and fight back from this. There’s no time for gloating or complacency from the Left, and there’s barely enough time to build real momentum and organisation ahead of a possibly very early election.

    • Varity 2.4
      23 October 2013 at 11:54 am

      you’re not wrong and that’s a timely reminder and a good post.

      confidence is a good thing too though.

  3. pollywog 3
    23 October 2013 at 10:10 am

    Williamson is yesterdays newspaper wrapping Collins cold fish n chups.

  4. King Kong 4
    23 October 2013 at 10:12 am

    Do you know how I know this is the ravings of a mental?

    “it’s a smouldering ruin spurred on by Nationals abysmal polling”

    Unless you are referring to those polls this year when National slipped under 30% and Labour where consistently around 50%…oh wait.

    • Te Reo Putake 4.1
      23 October 2013 at 10:18 am

      We’ve had MMP for years now. Do try and get your head around it, KK. Silly monkey.

    • McFlock 4.2
      23 October 2013 at 12:12 pm

      heh heh heh – at 41.5% “consistently around 50%” is beginning to be a touch unrealistic. In fact, this term in the roymorgans the nats have hit fifty… once.

    • bad12 4.3
      24 October 2013 at 12:48 pm

      Lolz, what i do know is that Garner leaked via twitter the results of the regular polling carried out by the Labour Party and laughably that polling matched the series of Roy Morgan polls in the last few months,

      The rumor from the ‘mill’ here in Wellington is that National’s own polling of the same nature, not for publication but for Party use, had last time round National polling 39%,(at which point all the faces round the Cabinet table are said to have taken on the pallor of pasty white corpses and more then one pace-maker alarm was said to have been triggered),

      Calling me mental has the same effect upon me as calling you a dickless wanker has on you, i am happy to report that i have the paper-work somewhere which would tend to agree with you, in your case tho, no matter how much porn-tube you watch the prognosis for you will remain the same…

  5. Calltoaccount 5
    23 October 2013 at 10:17 am

    Your Bryce Edwards link isn’t working. And his latest round up post, read yesterday, re The Affair seems to have been removed, as far as I can see. Hmmmm?

    [Fixed thanks cta – MS]

  6. Pascal's bookie 6
    23 October 2013 at 10:29 am

    Here’s the Metro editorial Bryce Edwards tweeted about earlier:

    http://t.co/40AEx6OSIU

    He seems to have deleted the earlier tweet, but helpfully tweeted the link to that just now.

  7. Calltoaccount 7
    23 October 2013 at 2:23 pm

    And the Nat MP leaker to Brown’s camp was… “National MP Mark Mitchell”. So was the reason he leaked was he was tired of Slater etc’s antics or just saying because everyone was??

    So the id of the fighting people in your graphic (which movie?) is Slater and Mark Mitchell

    • karol 7.1
      23 October 2013 at 3:58 pm

      Cocktail gossip. Webster (Councillor) passed it on.

      Key said Auckland councillor Penny Webster telephoned him this morning to confess she had been gossiping with the MP.

      “My understanding is that [he] … didn’t have the details but he was aware of some gossip at a function,” Key said today.

      “He had a discussion with Penny Webster. Penny Webster spoke to Len Brown.”

      Sounds like “I’m not bovvered” Key, behind the scenes, was wanting to know what involvement Nat party members/MPs had in the leaks, smears, etc.

      • bad12 7.1.1
        23 October 2013 at 4:59 pm

        Lolz Slippery might be trying to ‘display’, like a peacock that’s suffered a sex change operation and is now unsure of it’s role in life, that He aint ‘bovvered’ by how the spray of defecation whats best described as ‘the Brown affair’ has blown back on those who attempted to orchestrate this into political advantage, but His body language tells a far far different tale,

        Mark Mitchell, replying in the media to His one claim to fame lifting Him from obscurity to the giddy heights of a mere mediocrity seems to be back-pedaling at a rate of knots that would have that cartoon character ‘the road-runner’ in admiration of such speed,

        Is such a shy, wilting flower demeanor from Mitchell brought about by the stench Blubber boy, Palino and Luigi have so far managed to fan toward the National Government from the revelation surrounding their actions amidst this ‘affair’,

        Or is this ones reticence to take up and wear the cloak of infamy simply the fear of the National Party’s silent but ruthless machine that will at a whim crush the political future of an MP seen to have used His ‘loose lips’ to save ‘the ship’ from being torpedoed by a carefully orchestrated smear really only stymied by Ms Chuang’s refusal to sign an affidavit until ‘after’ Brown’s re-election,

        Far from having any belief in the Prime Minister and His claims that this is ‘only’ an Auckland centric issue His body language says to me that Slippery the PM knows of a RAT at the very heart of efforts to relieve Len Brown of the Auckland Mayoralty, said RAT being known to scuttle amidst the scrime given off from within the confines of the Beehive’s 9th floor…

      • Tat Loo 7.1.2
        24 October 2013 at 2:44 pm

        Who on earth just walks up to a work colleague and says “hey I heard some idle gossip at a party claiming that you’ve been cheating on your wife. Thought you should know about it, just in case.” Or calls the PM just to say, hey I heard a rumour about an affair at a party.

        It’s not really the way it happens, is it.

  8. North 8
    23 October 2013 at 3:49 pm

    Seems like Populuxe at 2.1.1 above (reply button not working sorry) has forgotten that Kim Dotcom made it very clear to ShonKey Python’s face at the GCSB select committee hearing that he can prove that ShonKey did indeed know about his existence at a date earlier than the one ShonKey gave to Parliament and the people of New Zealand as the date on which he first became aware.

    I have not a shred of doubt that with counsel of the calibre of Paul Davison QC Dotcom would not contemplate making claims he cannot ultimately prove.

    So it’s not just Winston Populuxe. It would pay not to simply write Winston off and think that having done that all is well for ShonKey Python.

  9. rod 9
    23 October 2013 at 4:37 pm

    Luigi Wewege, John Palino, John Slater, Cameron Slater and the National Party had absolutely nothing to do with the stitch up of Len Brown. Yeah Right!

    • karol 9.1
      23 October 2013 at 7:09 pm

      Well, it’s certainly interesting how the story keeps developing. If I recall correctly, Slater Jnr said on The Nation that he hadn’t lied about anything and/or challenged Smalley to find anything he had said that hadn’t been found to be true…. or something similar.

      Yet:

      Slater first said that Chuang came to him and he was misleading in failing to mention that there is a guy called Luigi Wewege who brought Chuang to Slater.

      Slater also said only Brown’s closest contacts knew that his WO reference to Brown’s eye for “Asian beauties” was a reference to Chuang – so he was initially claiming the “threatening” text could only have come from the Brown camp. Now we learn that Brown’s affair was a widely known rumour all over town, including around the National Party/caucus – although it’s not clear who could name names.

      WO: the unreliable blogger and smear merchant.

  10. mickysavage 10
    23 October 2013 at 7:10 pm

    The Herald is naming Mark Mitchell as the National MP source of the leak. He is one of Cameron’s very good friends and I believe he had the benefit of Simon Lusk’s support when he went for Rodney.

    Interesting …

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11144954

    • karol 10.1
      23 October 2013 at 7:14 pm

      Aha! The Lusk connection is interesting, micky. Yep. You’re right.

      • bad12 10.1.1
        23 October 2013 at 7:49 pm

        It’s becoming more ‘interesting’ as those in the know deny being so either taking the vows of silence or using the Sergeant Shultz ”i know nothing, nothing you hear”, defence,

        Len Brown could possibly enlighten us all about what, or more to the point who gave Him a large enough hint to have Him on the front foot telling the wife befor the defecation became entangled in the air-conditioning,

        i havn’t checked over at the sewer, but, assume Blubber boy has been silenced by Daddy Blubber threatening to not pay for any more of His toys in the future if Blubber junior doesn’t shut it,

        The intrigue, the suspense, the question, does the sea of utter shit, the reeking puddle of porcine scum regularly wallowed in by the Blubbers both junior and senior start splashing against the feet of Nationals Government Ministers or will the enforced vows of silence make the tide go out…

      • ghostrider888 10.1.2
        23 October 2013 at 7:50 pm

        sigh nd off

    • Anne 10.2
      23 October 2013 at 7:37 pm

      Someone else who had the benefit of Lusk’s support was Louise Upston (Nat. Party whip) and was Chris Tremain the other one? Mind you it cost them big bickies. Did Mark Mitchell pay for Lusk’s expensive services?

      Interesting former ACT MP, Penny Webster is such a strong supporter of Len Brown. The morning after the story broke I heard Michelle Boag on Radio NZ also extolling his Mayoral talents. I assume they both voted for him. It shows he has the ability to appeal across the political spectrum which has to be an asset for the Mayor of Auckland.

  11. Huginn 11
    24 October 2013 at 5:42 am

    Call me an idealistic, but . . .

    I think that what’s happening here goes beyond the usual infighting that goes on in all political parties.

    I agree with the argument that lprent made yesterday and the one Bryce Edwards made right from the outset that dirty politics is bad for democracy and that we were on the brink of sliding into a very dangerous place where Slater’s tactics become normal.

    Statements of support for Len Brown from Michelle Boag and John Key, and Hamish Price’s letter to Cameron Slater and even Len Brown’s early disclosure should be seen as a stepping back from that place and an attempt to heal the political meta-culture.

    We should give them room to do that.

    here’s the link to Bryce Edwards’ oped
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11142399

  12. captain hook 12
    24 October 2013 at 2:57 pm

    the thing is scumblog slater claims to be operating from a set of higher principles than the rest of us plebs but everything he touches turns to crap.
    time to get out the “RAID”.

  13. Pete 13
    25 October 2013 at 6:53 pm

    Hard to see why Bad12 justified a post. Nothing remotely interesting in that piece – just puerile rhetoric.
    Since this post started on Len Brown, I will confine my comments to that topic.
    Personally, I don’t really care how these revelations came about – that is a different topic to the matter of Len Brown’s indiscretions.
    I just can’t get past the fact that a sitting mayor has the abysmal lack of judgement to recommend a women he has a romantic interest in for an official role in the councils sphere of influence. Leaving aside the location for some of his rendezvous, this alone is enough to make me think he is completely unfit for the role.
    I believe this has alienated such a large portion of the community that there is no coming back from it. I was in the local supermarket a few days ago and a group of locals were talking at the checkout (my guess is that everyone would be a labour voter) and their criticism of Brown was severe. I think the community will stay very divided on this matter.

    • McFlock 13.1
      25 October 2013 at 7:10 pm

      What you can’t get past is being investigated by the appropriate authorities.

      I’m intrigued that you can so easily get past the point of the post, though.

    • bad12 13.2
      25 October 2013 at 7:35 pm

      Pete, yeah me too i consider my comment posted here was hardly worthy of inclusion in a post, but, unlike you i don’t try and tell the Standards authors either ‘what’ they should write or what information they include in a particular post they choose to write,

      Talking of ‘puerile rhetoric’ your comment is simply full of it and imparts NO facts of any interest except for your claim to be able to ‘think’ which in itself is laughable,

      However the gut-busting utter bullshit contained within the final paragraph of your comment would have to,if one were available, have you at the head of the queue to win the weekly ‘bullshit i have patently made up’ award,

      You went to the local supermarket and groups of locals were talking, utter shit right there dimbo, go to any supermarket in the land and ‘groups of locals’ do not stand around talking, they get the shopping outta the way and get on with going about their biz for the day,

      How would you know who was a Labour voter and who wasn’t, 30 or 40 years ago you might have been able to make a guess upon the particular clothing choices of people but these days you just never know,

      In essence your entire last paragraph is simply a re-working of the old ‘some of my best friends are’ or ‘last time i voted x but never again’, in other words the same tired old bullshit regurgitated by the same boring old wing-nuts, lift your game wont you…

      • mickysavage 13.2.1
        25 October 2013 at 7:41 pm

        Don’t underestimate the quality of your comment bad12.

        What attracted me to it is that it summed up a dramatic change in political fortunes. Suddenly Labour is united and national is publicly divided.

        National has been disciplined for the past five years and Labour has been struggling. Suddenly the caucus is disciplined and National is publicly scrapping.

        Long may it last …

        • bad12 13.2.1.1
          25 October 2013 at 7:55 pm

          Cheers MS, yes the whole ‘Brown affair’ produced a stunningly different political picture than what was to be seen a mere few months ago,

          Wasn’t it great, in spite of the mainstream media, how ‘the left’ took control of and managed the story where those who broke the news in such a smutty way got to wear all the s**t as ‘the left’ united to blow it back in their faces…

  14. Pete 14
    25 October 2013 at 7:25 pm

    McFlock: it will be interesting to see what eventuates from this investigation. Whether it will lead to his resignation is unclear (probably not in my view). What isn’t unclear is that it was an appalling lapse of judgement and a clear conflict of interest.
    As to by passing the point of the post, I found the post quite wide ranging and was only interested in commenting on the Brown matter which was the the subject of the lead in paras.

    • bad12 14.1
      25 October 2013 at 7:42 pm

      The point of the post seems to me to be pointing out that the ‘Brown affair’ far from burning Len Browns mayoralty as the revelation of that affair was intended by the right wing scum merchants, instead the blow-back from the people would seem to not only have the right now openly gutting each other in public but the public reacting in horror at the actions of those connected to the National Party in exposing the affair in the first place…

    • McFlock 14.2
      25 October 2013 at 8:52 pm

      lol

      love how you’re waiting for the investigation to finish. What isn’t being officially investigated is the clear conflict of interest Luigi had, and what Palino and slater snr knew about it.

  15. Pete 15
    25 October 2013 at 8:08 pm

    Bad12 you can abuse me and swear all you like but it changes nothing. Brown had an astounding lapse in judgement.
    Did you really think that I invented that bit about the supermarket? If you did you were dead wrong. I live within the supercity, but in the outskirts of the city where people at least know one another by sight if not by name. A small group of men and women including the checkout operator and the packer were freely expressing their opinions. That’s what happens in communities.
    Because I am local I have an informed opinion about where political,loyalties might lay.
    Your last point about reworking the tired old argument ‘some of my best friends…’ is irrelevant. You have simply no basis for assuming who I voted for, or who I didn’t.
    What I didn’t like about your original post, but was too polite to say, was that it was so laden with emotion and invective that it wasn’t really worth reading. By the way point out where I told the authors what to publish. What I did say was that It was hard to see why it was made a post.

    • bad12 15.1
      25 October 2013 at 8:26 pm

      Hahaha, yeah sure it does, pfft ”i was standing in the supermarket and groups of people were standing round talking about how bad lLen Brown is”, ha ha ha, only on the Planet Dumbo inhabited by Pete,

      Lolz ‘laden with emotion and invective”, some folks love it, other’s more dead in the head than alive want the internet to resemble the 6 oclock news which is really designed to entertain those with a 12 year old’s mentality…

  16. Pete 16
    25 October 2013 at 8:32 pm

    Bad12 I am going to discontinue this as it is futile trying to have dialogue with someone who doesn’t know how to converse.

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