web analytics

Friday quiz – late edition

Written By: - Date published: 1:34 pm, March 21st, 2009 - 27 comments
Categories: law and "order" - Tags: ,

Imagine two incidents when a person is at home and they hear someone outside their house. In the first incident, they grab a knife and head outside. In the second incident, they grab an air rifle and go outside. In the first incident, they see two taggers running away and chase them. In the second incident, they see two men dressed in black running away and chase them. Both incidents see the weapon used and one of the people who were attempting to escape killed.

Which do you agree with?

a) The property owner has every right to defend their property. Anyone sneaking around on someone else’s property is asking for trouble. The property owner should not be punished – it’s the intruder’s fault they’re dead, the property owner was only expressing “his frustration over the issue“.

b) In the first example to killing is OK but not in the second one. The ‘McVicar defence’ only applies to cases when it’s a Pakeha business owner killing a kid who can be dismissed as ‘underclass’. Not when a suspected drug dealer kills someone who turns out to be a cop.

c) Any killing is a terrible act. Killing can only be justified in exceptional circumstances. Using a potentially deadly weapon against someone merely for infringing on your property is illegal and immoral, and deserves to be punished.

If you answered a you should consider voting for ACT (“the Liberal Party”). If you answered b) you’re a racist bigot, you should join the Sensible Sentencing Trust, maybe you can find out who their major backers really are. If you answered c) congratulations, you’re a decent human being.

27 comments on “Friday quiz – late edition ”

  1. This has been bugging me also. I really can’t see the difference here, late at night, property being interfered with, property owner shoots \ stabs before asking questions. I guess we all know what the outcome is going to be though.

    • Defending one’s property on one’s property is one thing, but chasing someone down the road and then stabbing/shooting them with an air rifle is another. I would argue both are cases of manslaughter. Even so, I could speculate the guy with the air rifle might not have intended to kill the guy messing with his car, but just wanted to scare him. The man with the knife, however, I believe definitely intended to inflict serious harm on the ‘tagger’.
      Both should get a sentence of manslaughter, whatever that might be.


  2. DS 2

    How is ACT implicated with option a? Surely the fact they have an MP connected with SST doesn’t mean the party supports each and every statement made by McVicar? If I had to bet I doubt ACT supporters would be any more likely to agree with the McVicar statement you reference than supporters of any other party. It’s one thing to disagree with the positions ACT does have, but even the ones it doesn’t? This seems a bit unfair.

    It is also not clear how McVicar’s comments were racially motivated as your linked post insinuates. How did you draw that conclusion?

    • Felix 2.1

      Is it reasonable to take the statements of the party’s Law and Order Spokesperson as being representative of the party’s position on Law and Order?

      If so then you don’t have a case.
      If not then the ACT party has some very serious troubles.

  3. Snail 3

    John A,

    Re: ACT (‘the Liberal Party’)

    Your single quotes infer the enclosed words are an ACT (or a third party’s) claim.

    In the interests of saying what they really are for the benefit of others would you not consider replacing that description with a more accurate one of the Contrarian Party.

    In this they are standout from all the other parties.

  4. Quoth the Raven 4

    Everyone has a right to life. To kill someone simply because they are on your property is absurd and is an act of aggression not defense. You cannot take away someone’s right to life merely because they have infringed on your property rights.

  5. Felix 5

    ‘the Liberal Party’

    As I/S noted the other day they seem to have stopped using this monumentally misleading slogan.

  6. Bill 6

    In both examples the people ran away. Having run away they are no longer trespassing, threatening your property or whatever the perceived offense was.

    If they are thieves and taggers then the offense has already been committed and reasonable force is surely all you are authorised to use in making a citizens arrest.

    Seeing it otherwise would mean exulting in the summary execution of supermarket market shoplifters and skip jumpers (analogous with the second example).

    And illegal fly posters, pavement artists and so on (following example one) should be subjected to roving vigilante death squads. Funded by the local council perhaps….or maybe under the auspices of some ppp arrangement?

  7. the sprout 7

    glad you raised this John A, I’d be thinking the same myself.

  8. Schwule 8

    In my neighbourhood they tag the police station that much the police have given up painting over the mess. Guess crime is winning.

    • Bill 8.1

      The police have given up on whitewash?

    • Joseph 8.2

      Something is only really a crime when it hurts people. In this case, the police seem to have adopted the proper response of not caring about some paint, and actually going after the people that harm others.

      Good on them.

  9. greenfly 9

    Had to Bill, the writing was on the wall.

  10. Ianmac 10

    greenfly. Haha
    John a well said. You remember that there is another one where the shopkeeper ran after some alleged youthful shoplifters, had a row with some then hit a kid with a hockey stick. (Case pending I think?) The man was charged with assault but some public expressed sympathy for the shopkeeper.
    Bill said:”In both (all 3 ) examples the people ran away. Having run away they are no longer trespassing, threatening your property or whatever the perceived offense was.”
    Not selfdefense?

    • The problem here is that all too often these things come in front of a justice of the peace, who all to often apply their all too white version of common sense too the situation and these things never get punished as they should. I’m surprised the Emery case went as far as it did.

  11. toad 11

    Three strikes and you’re Garrotted!

    Problem with David Garrett is that he is in both the ACT Party and the SST – and it shows big-time!

  12. QoT 12

    Can I have an option (d) “As someone who’s not very fit, entirely unexperienced in physical conflict and thoroughly unkeen to confront superior numbers of unknown opponents, I lock my door, stay inside my house and call the cops”?

  13. Ianmac 13

    QoT: Or option (e) Send your wife out to deal with the intruder, then lock the door because no sense in both of you getting hurt!

  14. There is no straight answer to that question, most people would answer C, I dont think how you can tell who someone must vote for, by a carefully worded multi choice question like that.

    • Felix 14.1

      Most people would pick (c), yes. And most people don’t vote for ACT or join the SST.

      The vast majority of us are decent people, Brett. ACT and the SST are just a handful of very noisy extremists. It’s about time the decent people stopped paying so much attention to them and let them crawl back into the filthy little caves they came out of..

      • gingercrush 14.1.1

        That is nice and all Felix. Yet the sentiment expressed here is generally that its a travesty that the Jury found Bruce Emery guilty of only manslaughter. And if one assumes the jury is made up of normal New Zealanders how does that then resolve with your thinking?

        • Felix

          a) I don’t claim to speak on behalf of “the sentiment here”.

          b) The Emery verdict is irrelevant to the point which Brett made and which I expanded on.

          c) It’s a lovely day for a vodka in the sun.

  15. Quoth the Raven 15

    There is no straight answer to that question, most people would answer C, I dont think how you can tell who someone must vote for, by a carefully worded multi choice question like that.

    I thought my answer was fairly straight. Do you disagree Brett?

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Tokelau Language Week reminds us to stay united and strong
    Staying strong in the face of challenges and being true to our heritage and languages are key to preserving our cultural identity and wellbeing, is the focus of the 2020 Tokelau Language Week. Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio, says this year’s theme, ‘Apoapo tau foe, i nā tāfea ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • NZ announces a third P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    The Government has deployed a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 Orion (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea, announced Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark. “New Zealand has long supported ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Pacific trade and development agreement a reality
    Pacific regional trade and development agreement PACER Plus will enter into force in 60 days now that the required eight countries have ratified it. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker welcomed the announcement that the Cook Islands is the eighth nation to ratify this landmark agreement. “The agreement represents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Securing a pipeline of teachers
    The Government is changing its approach to teacher recruitment as COVID-19 travel restrictions continue, by boosting a range of initiatives to get more Kiwis into teaching. “When we came into Government, we were faced with a teacher supply crisis,” Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. “Over the past three years, we ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Border exceptions for a small number of international students with visas
    The Government has established a new category that will allow 250 international PhD and postgraduate students to enter New Zealand and continue their studies, in the latest set of border exceptions. “The health, safety and wellbeing of people in New Zealand remains the Government’s top priority. Tight border restrictions remain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • First COVID-19 vaccine purchase agreement signed
    The Government has signed an agreement to purchase 1.5 million COVID-19 vaccines – enough for 750,000 people – from Pfizer and BioNTech, subject to the vaccine successfully completing all clinical trials and passing regulatory approvals in New Zealand, say Research, Science and Innovation Minister Megan Woods and Health Minister Chris Hipkins. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • International statement – End-to-end encryption and public safety
    We, the undersigned, support strong encryption, which plays a crucial role in protecting personal data, privacy, intellectual property, trade secrets and cyber security.  It also serves a vital purpose in repressive states to protect journalists, human rights defenders and other vulnerable people, as stated in the 2017 resolution of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Ministry of Defence Biodefence Assessment released
    The Ministry of Defence has today released a Defence Assessment examining Defence’s role across the spectrum of biological hazards and threats facing New Zealand. Biodefence: Preparing for a New Era of Biological Hazards and Threats looks at how the NZDF supports other agencies’ biodefence activities, and considers the context of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Approaches to Economic Challenges: Confronting Planetary Emergencies: OECD 9 October 2020
    New Approaches to Economic Challenges: Confronting Planetary Emergencies: OECD 9 October 2020 Hon David Parker’s response following Thomas Piketty and Esther Duflo. Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, wherever in the world you might be. I first acknowledge the excellent thought provoking speeches of Thomas Piketty and Esther ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Kaipara Moana restoration takes next step
    A Memorandum of Understanding has been signed today at Waihāua Marae between the Crown, local iwi and councils to protect, restore and enhance the mauri of Kaipara Moana in Northland. Environment Minister David Parker signed the document on behalf of the Crown along with representatives from Ngā Maunga Whakahī, Ngāti ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand and Uruguay unite on reducing livestock production emissions
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor and Uruguayan Minister of Livestock, Agriculture and Fisheries Carlos María Uriarte have welcomed the launch of a three-year project that will underpin sustainable livestock production in Uruguay, Argentina, and Costa Rica.  The project called ‘Innovation for pasture management’ is led by Uruguay’s National Institute of Agricultural ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • 3100 jobs created through marae upgrades
    Hundreds of marae throughout the country will be upgraded through investments from the Provincial Growth Fund’s refocused post COVID-19 funding to create jobs and put money into the pockets of local tradespeople and businesses, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones and Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta have announced. “A total ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Health volunteers recognised in annual awards
    Health Minister Chris Hipkins has announced 9 teams and 14 individuals are the recipients of this year’s Minister of Health Volunteer Awards.  “The health volunteer awards celebrate and recognise the thousands of dedicated health sector volunteers who give many hours of their time to help other New Zealanders,” Mr Hipkins ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Community COVID-19 Fund supports Pacific recovery
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples, Aupito William Sio says a total of 264 groups and individuals have successfully applied for the Pacific Aotearoa Community COVID-19 Recovery Fund, that will support Pacific communities drive their own COVID-19 recovery strategies, initiatives, and actions. “I am keen to see this Fund support Pacific ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Community benefits from Māori apprenticeships
    Up to 50 Māori apprentices in Wellington will receive paid training to build houses for their local communities, thanks to a $2.75 million investment from the Māori Trades and Training Fund, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “This funding will enable Ngāti Toa Rangatira Incorporated to provide its Ngā Kaimahi ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Training fund supports Māori jobseekers
    Rapidly growing sectors will benefit from a $990,000 Māori Trades and Training Fund investment which will see Wellington jobseekers supported into work, announced Employment Minister Willie Jackson today. “This funding will enable Sapphire Consultants Ltd. to help up to 45 Māori jobseekers into paid training initiatives over two years through ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Ruakura Inland Port development vital infrastructure for Waikato
    The Government is investing $40 million to develop an inland port at Ruakura which will become a freight super-hub and a future business, research and residential development for the Waikato, Urban Development and Transport Minister Phil Twyford, and Māori Development Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced today. The funding has been has ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Appointments made to Defence Expert Review Group
    Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today the establishment of an Expert Review Group to review a number of aspects of the New Zealand Defence Force’s (NZDF) structure, information management and record-keeping processes.  The Expert Review Group’s work arises out of the first recommendation from the Report of the Government’s Inquiry ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • No active community cases of COVID-19
    There are no active community cases of COVID-19 remaining in the country after the last people from the recent outbreak have recovered from the virus, Health Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “This is a big milestone. New Zealanders have once again through their collective actions squashed the virus. The systems ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Clean energy upgrade for more public buildings
    More public buildings will be supported by the Government to upgrade to run on clean energy, the Minister for Climate Change James Shaw announced today. Minister Shaw announced that Lincoln and Auckland universities will receive support through the Clean-Powered Public Service Fund to replace fossil fuel boilers. Southern, Taranaki, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Schools back donations scheme for the second year
    More schools have opted in to the donations scheme for 2021, compared to 2020 when the scheme was introduced. “The families of more than 447,000 students will be better off next year, with 94% of eligible schools and kura opting into the scheme,” Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. “This is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago