“Get some Guts!”

Written By: - Date published: 1:17 pm, September 3rd, 2015 - 96 comments
Categories: International, john key - Tags:

So a while back John Key screeched across to the Opposition Benches: “Get some guts!” because they disagreed with the effectiveness of sending a few NZ Army trainers into harm’s way in Iraq.  The US spending many billions hadn’t managed to convince Iraqi soldiers not to drop their weapons and run in the face of IS, so how would putting a few of our guys a few dozen kms from what became the front line do?

But no, Key was on a Boys Own crusade.

Now, when faced with the massive refugee crisis that Europe has – as the millions trying to get out of Syria & Iraq have overwhelmed Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey’s ability to cope and hundreds of thousands have moved onto Europe, many dying on the way – John Key is not so willing to help.

Not so much the Coalition of the Willing as the Coalition of the Ignoring And Hoping It Will Go Away.

Even Act think we should increase our refugee quota by the amount our population’s gown since we last changed it (40%).

Yes, it would be a drop in the bucket compared to the millions displaced by war, rape, torture and death of loved ones, but every refugee would be eternally grateful for their escape from the hell-hole.  It would make an immeasurable difference to those families & individuals.  That gratefulness leads to refugees making the most of their opportunity and doing their best for their new country; being great, contributing citizens.

Kind of like how grateful Key’s parents were when they escaped Nazi Europe, with Key’s mother making sure he made the most of their opportunities.

And all for much less than the price of a flag referendum.

At 90th in the world for refugee quota per capita, we risk Aotearoa not continuing to be seen as fair and compassionate and an honest player.  Y’know: the reasons we said we should be on the Security Council…

Get some guts Mr Key – and make sure we do our share for refugees.

96 comments on ““Get some Guts!” ”

  1. CnrJoe 1

    Curia and CrosbyTextor will provide Key a way back.
    My take?
    Next week “..ooh there’s money in refugeez…camps… Serco..billions!”.

  2. freedom of will 2

    Keep them all in your house and pay them all by YOURSELF is the first step.

    It’s your game, the sanctimonious left, then it’s your responsibility.

    Otherwise don’t give me the “collective responsibility crap” to sink the boat for everyone else in NZ, it’s so typical of left to have the urge of giving everything for free as if we can print money as if it is iPhone manufacturing.

    • dv 2.1

      As i said in another post I am really impressed with your humanity.
      I think that you need to share how you developed such a view of the world so we can follow you.

    • amy 2.2

      An extra 250 or even 2500 refugees not sink the boat. Please Mr Key do this.
      But still not help solve the situation which is real problem. And NZ on UN Security Council and say nothing. My only opposition to increasing refugee numbers is I think it deflects attention from real problem and solution.

    • Ilicit 2.3

      Born without a conscience obviously !!

      Freedom of Will………….what a joke !

      • freedom of will 2.3.1

        I’d rather set up a fund, so that any individual high achieving high school students from lower SE class in NZ can be funded to study at Ivy League unis in the US or any top schools even if they can get scholarship so that they don’t have to worry if they can really chase their dreams due to the shortage of money and be rewarded for their achievement.

        So that their lives will shine for their talent and hard-work.

        And as I have said about economy, you can’t do two things using the same dollar, and adding more tax for fund refugees hurts other spendings, thus cutting it and change it to a fund for high achieving individuals hindered by poverty is worth doing.

        No conscience, in your face.

        • Gabby 2.3.1.1

          I’d rather stop people getting their heads cut off.

        • Ilicit 2.3.1.2

          I sincerely suspect you don’t understand the true meaning of “refugee”, it includes doctors, teachers, skilled workers, and more.

          Sure we have our own problems, but bigotry such as yours has no place in NZ !!

        • Certainly you can’t do two things with the same dollar, but if you add another dollar, you can in fact do both. The government isn’t getting back to surplus any time soon, and it would not hurt them to add another $100million or so (which is chump change in government budget terms, not even an extra cent per tax dollar) to the budget to expand the refugee program permanently, and also take in some extra refugees in an emergency quota on a one-off basis.

          We currently have less than one in every two thousand people in our country coming from the refugee program. This puts us behind most of the world on a per-capita basis. New Zealand punches above its weight on so many other things, we can afford to at least be average in taking on refugees.

          As for funding high-achievers… are you seriously comparing scholarship programs to saving people who are likely to die from being unable to flee a warzone? These people are literally so determined to get out that they end up trying to swim further than they can, and drowning.

          If you don’t think refugees are willing to make the hard choice and get through hard work, you have never met one, and don’t know what the word even means.

          • freedom of will 2.3.1.3.1

            I prefer the government could start a round of tax cuts than adding more and that means getting rid of wasteful spendings, and this issues raised by financial illiterates is the most wasteful ever, not in terms of the amount, but the stupidity involved.

            Again, I don’t want my money to be spent on this issue. Not my tax money, not my donation, nothing. None! I could do more, but I’m not a Greenie, and I will never, ever, not in a thousand years, do anything about it. Why do I need to put my shoes in their situations? Ever heard about libertarianism?

            And I still prefer awarding kids in THIS country based on meritocracy so that we can have more John Keys, whom I respect.

            Also, in terms of global engagement, criticism from UN doesn’t mean anything because the only body within UN with some power is the Security Council in NY and they are not responsible for this issue. It’s the Economic and Social… something something (maybe based in NY) and Human Rights Council which is based in Geneva raising such matters, and they are powerless. Apple Ltd would have more influence than those malfunctioning, useless entities. Thus from a point of political realism, aka Realpolitik, they don’t matter, their opinions don’t matter.

      • Anno1701 2.3.2

        the handle leads me to believe he is some kind of libertard/randroid myself

    • Smilin 2.4

      Keys attitude to NZ in general is like an adolescent who thinks the world actually listens to them when they have nothing to back up what they think they know but dont because they have no experience
      Painfully listening to Keys wishy washy spin is enough to turn you mental .Unless Key is prepared to to be a PM and have some compassion for the people in the deplorable mess in the Middle East caused by GWB, Blair and the political and military barbarism from the US Israel Syria and Saudi Arabia and gets some guts of his own to climb down of his high horse and do some to help the refugees, as far as Im concerned he has no right to be PM or call himself a NZer.
      His monetarist wanking is enough to make me want to wring his neck
      Effin money u bastard what a lame excuse not to do anything .
      As for this being about Left and Right politics geez wayne you want to get a reality check its about oil and sovereignty if you know about the Clearances in the 1800s in Scotland, sheep more valuable than people its the same thing

      • amy 2.4.1

        The ‘right’ he has is that his party was voted on. It’s called Democracy.

        And please stop with the Sociology 101 nonsense. The refugee crisis is only in part due to the US etc. There was huge demographic pressure in these countries long before 2003 invasion.

        And I noticed, in true Sociology 101 speak, that you conveniently leave out the huge impact of Russia, Iran, Turkey, isis with its dominance of ex Iraq Bath Party leadership and many others who have done far more than the US to contribute to this mess.

        • Ilicit 2.4.1.1

          p.s. wasn’t my party Amy, it was the one NZ’ers voted in, not my party at all, it’s what we have, that simple !!!

          People on here seem to think I have some sort of agenda which I don’t, I just try to live my life with common sense and JK hasn’t got any of that.

          Who I voted for is no ones business but my own. But as a “country” we need to own up to our faults, not make them worse !!!

          Our hole gets deeper by the day !!

        • Actually no, voting once and the ruling party deciding everything is an elected dictatorship, not a democracy- you know, the sort of thing that Saddam Hussein ran. The idea is that after winning a vote, the government then has a mandate for its popular policies, and should consult us on the rest, and only proceed with the unpopular ones if there’s a very good reason, and should be open to public consultation and public opinion on anything that didn’t come up in the campaign.

    • Ad 2.5

      Might want to explore how New Zealand was formed, populated, settled, and developed, in the last 150 years.

      Boat people all.

    • Mike the Savage One 2.6

      Are you perhaps confusing “freedom of the will” with “triumph of the will”?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0kwnLzFMls

      Your comments do almost suggest this, given your “greathearted” views.

      • North 2.6.1

        “Oh My God !” as the young ones say……allowing mercifully far less OTT than what’s on that vid’……aren’t you just a little bit reminded of the ubiquitous middle-class Ponce Key Lover here in Nu Zilnd ?

        In Bali for a bit of R & R earlier this year visiting dear local friends, came upon a bunch of ‘gals’ from Aux. Fourteen middle-aged of them believe it ?

        One in particular, the wife of an Eastern-Suburbs-Soll-iss-itt-orr, could offer only this…..”John Key…..the best thing that ever happened to Nu Zilnd !”

        As she swanned flabbily out towards the pool, wrapped unbecomingly in a wispy, ‘tropical climes’ garment purchased for threepence earlier that day…..painted talons retaining only tenuous grip (such was her inebriation) on the heavy gin/light tonic drinking vessel in her smug hand.

        These are The Ponce Key Lovers of Nu Zilnd……soooo not to be listened to and soooo the easy meat for The Ponce Key ! What the fuck has happened to Nu Zilnd ?

    • Anno1701 2.7

      your trolling is weak FOW

      try harder !

    • North 2.8

      Having seen the picture of the three year old lifted from the sea, his little sneakers having more life than he, it is wickedly, pathologically dark that Freedom Of Will (Be An Arsehole)…..should use the words……”to sink the boat for everyone else in NZ”.

      As though the welcoming into our society of what’s left of that boy’s grieving, broken family will fuck “us” up ? As though I’m not complimented beyond all entitlement when branded “santimonious left” by an amoral piece of shit like Freedom Of Will (Be An Arsehole).

      Have a look at tonight’s news Freedom Of Will (Be An Arsehole). Seems even PM John McCaw is no longer with the scumminess of the detritus which is you. May an unforgiving karma visit you……regularly……thunderously !

    • jacob 2.9

      Well said . Completely agree. Good art, but the bleeding heart liberal brigade fairies club needs to get a reality check about opening the floodgates to refugees. Obviously the country can and should take some but their numbers need to be contained! NZ has serious child poverty and education issues. Fix the issues at home and help your fellow kiwis. A lot of these refugees are going to have radical Islam links to ISIS and potential terrorists. They bring nothing to value to any country besides more mouths to feed at the tax payers expense and it is ultimately an environmental expense for more resources. Plenty are uneducated and have many kids who are bred into poverty. If you can’t feed them don’t blady breed them. I am sorry, i have very little sympathy for refugees because the reality of bringing them in will eventually mean radical Islam will take root. Ask yourself this, Why don’t the the Islamic countries offer some help and take them in as refugees. Culture is virtually the same.. A pessimist is a well informed optimist. Global population is increasing exponentially and our economic system is based off infinite growth on a finite planet with the majority of population brainwashed into mindless consumerism and materialism. We are experiencing the highest ever recorded rates of species extinction including fauna and flora. Deforestation is at an all time high and ocean degradation and pollution is unprecedented.

    • Instauration 2.10

      The responsibility to resolve a humanitarian issue is upon Humans. More so on those who directly engineered the circumstances that precipitated the situation.
      The source of the refugees and the now compelled Exodus is Colored Revolutions ™ . No U in the adjective.
      Tunisia , Libya, Iraq, Syria ; Those plays at orchestrated regime change are now rendering their inevitable consequences.
      USA – UK – Saudi Arabia – Turkey – Qatar: – take responsibility !

  3. shorts 3

    It takes guts to cowtow to your allies and send troops into harms way

    it doesn’t take guts to do the right thing by the victims of circumstances beyond their control, it takes heart and soul

  4. North 4

    You’ll be waiting in vain for The Ponce Key to “Gerr Sarrm Garrds !” The man’s an effete flake. Our AB’s captain should feel sick when he recalls first prancing out as Richie McKey…….

    • James 4.1

      Again – why with the homosexual insults ponce. You keep using this. I think you have a problem. Projection perhaps.

      Would you mind if I started using the term lezzo?

      • Red Blooded 4.1.1

        If you are referring to the terms Ponce or effete, I don’t see that as a homosexual reference. Their are plenty of poncy or effeminate straight men and plenty of butch homosexuals. Perhaps the projection was all yours?

        • James 4.1.1.1

          Red Blooded – You need to read his other post – very much using it as a homosexual basis. example earlier today called him a ponce and his boy friend.

          • North 4.1.1.1.1

            You need to pick up your dictionary James. Mind you The Ponce Key is very, very effete. That aside…..for “ponce”……read “pimp”. Then read “TPPA”.

          • North 4.1.1.1.2

            You were quick to jump to “boyfriend” James.

            “BF” (which I used, thus YOUR projection) = Best Friend = BF = Best Friend = BF = Best Friend. Happy now James ? No ? Relieved then…..maybeeee?

            Anyway, enough of you with that sort of talk about Richie McKey !

  5. Bazza 5

    Maybe it would be better to get Saudi Arabia, a muslin country to take them. According to Wikipedia they have 1.3 milllion Indians, 900,000 from Parkistan, 400,000 – 1 million from Bangladesh, 250,000 – 500,000 from Indonesian migrant workers. That at a conservative estimate = 2.85 million.

    • amy 5.1

      Agree. But the Gulf Arabs seem to not read the parts of the Quran that speak of compassion. I think they read the Quran looking for loopholes until head aches. Sooner the people over throw the corrupt Saudi leaders the better.

      • shorts 5.1.1

        this isn’t a question of who should or could take them… its a question of should and can we take more refugees

        The answer is yes

        • amy 5.1.1.1

          Yes agree. But more important we also make some noise in UN.

          • shorts 5.1.1.1.1

            only noise we can utter in the UN is one of abject collective shame at our current stance

            • Ilicit 5.1.1.1.1.1

              Sorry Shorts, I don’t take collective blame, I simply put it down to one very vain man !!

        • Bazza 5.1.1.2

          Actually the question is what is best for the refugees. I believe that going to a country close by with similar culture, religion & history is better than sending them to the other side of the world. If & when things become stable in their own country it will be easier for them to relocate home again.

          • shorts 5.1.1.2.1

            ideally that might be so… however given the circumstances isn’t it best to shelter and protect and offer as many as possible a chance for a life than what and see

            History suggests action is better than inaction – even if we can only take a few hundred more

      • Hami Shearlie 5.1.2

        The Sultan of Brunei is the richest man in the world – He should help his fellow Muslims. So too should UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey, Albania, Morocco, Egypt, Iran, all the former Russian states who are Muslim – strange how their religion seems to be devoid of compassion for their Muslim brothers in their hour of need isn’t it? Why is the EU feeling that they should take on this burden alone? They are very far away, which just encourages people traffickers – Helen Clark wants the refugees to stay in the countries close to their own, with all of us paying those countries to look after them – this would discourage people traffickers, and the people would be close to their homeland when the conflicts were over and would be able to return. This should be looked at more closely. Travelling such long distances is just terrible for families with small children, old people etc. On the question of refugees, it must be remembered that as well as taking refugees, NZ looks after all the Pacific Islands in time of need and on a regular basis.

        • miravox 5.1.2.1

          “strange how their religion seems to be devoid of compassion for their Muslim brothers in their hour of need isn’t it? “

          1. It’s not about being Muslim – Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon are more than doing their bit. Just like it’s not about Christian charity. The west would have a lot to answer for if t was.

          “Why is the EU feeling that they should take on this burden alone?”

          2. The EU (or Europe generally) shouldn’t and isn’t shouldering the burden alone. (See 1.) Nor is Europe very far away. Turkey to Greece is as little as 4km. Europe and the EU wasn’t prepared for the influx, it’s systems and legislation is not robust enough. Some countries let others bear the burden of new arrivals without swinging into supportive action. Some countries have been inflexible

          ” Helen Clark wants the refugees to stay in the countries close to their own, with all of us paying those countries to look after them”

          3. One of the better arguments for not increasing refugee quotas, however that horse has already bolted so it’s no longer valid, because not enough was done early enough. I can just imagine a collective UNHCR ‘we told you so’.

          Timeline: http://syrianrefugees.eu/?page_id=163

          Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey are already at risk of instability themselves as a result.

          ” it must be remembered that as well as taking refugees, NZ looks after all the Pacific Islands in time of need and on a regular basis.”

          4. This is not a good argument, imo. The international community (or the countries that we wish to be likened to) helps out. We’re willing to ‘support those who ‘helped out’ in the destabilisation of the region and have some responsibility for what has happened. Even if our hands were squeaky clean, this is an emergency situation and requires an emergency response, just as natural disasters like earthquakes or climate events do. Just as WW2 did. Of course, the response to this immediate need can’t be done in Syria and just because these people are not in our backyard doesn’t mean we should not play a greater role in this humanitarian crisis.

          Moreover, NZs refugee intake is nothing to be proud of with the actual quota not being filled three of the last six years and, unlike countries like Sweden and Germany, no asylum seekers taken beyond the quota. If there was concern about total numbers of incoming people, I’d rather NZ suspended usual migration and accepted more refugees.

        • Frank Macskasy 5.1.2.2

          Hami – “The Sultan of Brunei is the richest man in the world – He should help his fellow Muslims. So too should UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey, Albania, Morocco, Egypt, Iran, all the former Russian states who are Muslim – strange how their religion seems to be devoid of compassion for their Muslim brothers in their hour of need isn’t it?”

          Replace “Sultan of Brunei ” with the Pope, and Muslim references with Roman Catholic, and you begin to see that argument cuts both ways.

          Not that it’s much of an argument as the Frontline Nations (Jordan, Lebanon, et al) are already doing their bit;

          Jordan provides asylum for a large number of refugees, including from Syria and Iraq. It has granted Syrian refugees access to services, such as health and education, in host communities. The Syrian refugee camps of Azraq and Zaatari were built on land provided by the authorities where they also ensure security.

          As at January this year, there were some 811,070 Iraqi and Syrian refugees in Jordan alone. (Ref: http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49e486566.html)

          Jordan’s population is around 6.7 million, as at last year (ref; http://www.tradingeconomics.com/jordan/population).

          So another 12% has been added to the Jordanian population.

          If New Zealand did the same as Jordan, that’s 540,000 refugees we’d be admitting into this country.

          Currently the number is around 750.

          So before you go shooting your mouth off, check out the facts and stats. It’s surprising what you’ll find.

          You might even learn a thing or three.

          • Hami Shearlie 5.1.2.2.1

            The EU is doing so much to help and they should, it just seems very strange that the richest muslim countries don’t seem to be doing anything to help – Saudi Arabia, Brunei, UAE, Bahrain and Qatar – has anyone heard of anything any of them are doing to help the refugees – I just haven’t heard of them doing anything to help – anyone know of anything these mega rich countries are doing to help – And are China and Russia and India doing anything? It just seems that the EU seems to be bearing much ofthe brunt (not saying Jordan etc are not as well) of this.

    • Ad 5.2

      muslin is a cheesecloth.

      Good for straining whey and other dairy products.

      New Zealand is a muslin country.

    • Mike the Savage One 5.3

      Hah, Saudi Arabia is NOT known for actually welcoming and INTEGRATING refugees, which New Zealand would rather be doing, as it has in the past. So using the Saudi state is a poor example, I reckon.

      They are happy to use “guest workers”, but they will never become Saudi citizens, same is in most other “Gulf Nations”. I heard a Palestinian refugee calling in to Radio Live(ing Dead) not long ago, sharing her background and experiences as a refugee being accepted into New Zealand (with her parents).

      They were never given any residency rights in Kuwait, and coming to New Zealand was a totally different, much more positive experience, she said.

      It is not just a coincidence, that Palestinians, many of whom fled soon after 1948 or in the 1950s and 1960s from Israel, where settlers took their land, have lived in ghetto like refugees camps on Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and some other places in the Middle East. While there is much propaganda against Israel, the states that took them in, made little effort in caring overly much for these refugees, their Arab “brothers” and “sisters”.

    • McFlock 5.4

      assuming that all the refugees are Muslim, of course (not so much as you seem to think), and then you’re lumping Sunni and Shia in together and what about folk who mught be religious but prefer to live in a relatively secular state?

      But I guess that might be a bit complex…

  6. infused 6

    We generally support pacific nations, and that’s what we should focus on.

    The cap should probably be lifted to 1k, but that’s another story.

    There are plenty of other countries a lot closer who can help.

    • amy 6.1

      I think NZ is capable of doing more than one thing at a time.

    • North 6.2

      Yeah……you NOW (and for this discussion only) support Pacific nations In/Confused…..forgive me for punting that you would have been one of the most ardent ‘dawn raiders’. Stink right wing trash is like that……always (publicly) love the people they (privately) hate……when it momentarily suits and just for the ‘look’ of it.

  7. Ilicit 7

    I get really heartily sick of everyone “blaming” who we each may have voted for and who each holds left right or other views.

    The fact is quite simply that “we” collectively managed to vote for this country’s Government, as we have done since we first started voting in NZ.

    Whether we agree or not with whom we have in Government is something we have to live with until the next change.

    What we can do, instead of arguing about whose politics are better than others, is find a “collective” way to make the things we do have, better. To help change the lives of others as we can.

    Simply ignoring the issues like JK does, we fall apart as a society.

    In my own meek way, I am making tiny differences. But ranting on this page and doing nothing more than rant, fixes not a bloody thing !!

    • amy 7.1

      Totally agree. Not sure what is going on with me today but I seem to actually agree with most of the comments in this thread.

  8. ianmac 8

    Farrar polling must have shown that a significant chunk of the population does not want those foreigners in our back yard. Safe bet?

  9. Mike the Savage One 9

    Like with Working For Families, once referred to as “communism by stealth”, like with paid parental leave (moderate increase by a few weeks announced via the Budget), like with some social security benefits (admittedly only insufficiently increased for parents with children on benefits, also announced in the Budget), like with free doctor’s visits (expanded policy by National), like with finally bringing in some “controls” on residential housing speculation, it is due to either external pressures, political pressures by the opposition, or pure pragmatism, that John Key will finally give in, and do the minimum of what others consider absolutely necessary or overdue.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/71706489/refugee-crisis-prime-minister-john-key-stands-firm-on-nz-refugee-quota

    Prepare for a very limited, moderate extra intake!

  10. Is this the same gutless John Key of the euthanasia issue?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/69210987/Govt-will-back-euthanasia-inquiry-but-won-t-create-new-laws-says-John-Key

    “But for any law to be passed, a private member’s bill will have to be put before Parliament … At his post-Cabinet press conference on Monday, Key said he was personally sympathetic to her case, but a Government-sponsored bill would not occur, because it would never make it through the National caucus. ”

    Parliament is for addressing issues like pubs opening at 3.00am for rugby.

  11. Lloyd 11

    Our Prime Minister is absolutely right. We must keep the Ruth Keys out of the country. Refugees like her will breed if given housing in New Zealand. Their offspring will take over the country and destroy it or sell it off or something similar.

    • Mike the Savage One 11.1

      I have little sympathy for Mr John Key, presently indulging himself in activities in his existence as PM of Niu Zilliland, but I think it is unfair to refer to his mother like that.

      • North 11.1.1

        No ! The reference is acceptable. Were the person not deceased it might not be. That is not the case however. We are dealing with John Key. A man who gladly uplifts the proceeds of Crosby Textor machinations and lies…..for vanity and for power. At the expense of many.

        A man who had no respect for the victims of the child rapist and murderer who debunked to South America. He giggled. On television, which went right around the world.

        Likewise the son of of a well known politician…..if he (an adult – 21) is gonna publicly cavort and dance as an emblem of a wannabe “New Camelot” redolent of the Kennedy Administration of the early 60s, the super glamorous Jacqueline Bouvier and all that…..while children in New Zealand starve…..if he’s gonna dance…..people may well dance right back.

        Likewise various All Blacks. If they’re gonna dance…..well outside their area of competence and meaning…..people may well dance back.

        What makes all of ‘them’ so much more special and meaningful than all of ‘us’ ?

        To limit our dance in response to their vain displays is to say that they are so much more special and meaningful than us. Which is shit. Fuck them ! When the music stops we’re all naked. That includes them ! I for one don’t like this tugging the forelock shit to greedy, spoiled, entitled, shitheads. Don’t employ in respect of them morals they have no conception of……it just encourages them. To abuse us more.

        • vto 11.1.1.1

          Exactly. Great turn of phrase there North, as always, pricking the bubble of crap that masquerades for so much here in Celebrityland

    • North 11.2

      Lloyd – plus 1, 1,000 even. Very funny ! Sadly E! Channel and Nouveau Riche prevails. Oh how the Old Money of Aux must cringe !

  12. Tory 12

    They are not refugees, they are migrants. The difference is the refugees are living in Lebanon and Jordan and Syria and Iraq living day to day with next to nothing.
    The migrants on the other hand have spent a considerable fortune to people smugglers etc to make their way to the “rich west” so they can avoid the bloodshed and violence.
    As has been pointed out previously, other Middle Eastern countries have the finance and ability to house the “migrants” but I guess they are the wrong branch of Islam.
    Further more, having been to Palermo, Calais and migrant processing centres in Germany and Switzerland there are few migrants aged over 30 and enem migrants in places like Sweeden are saying it is getting out of hand.
    No to increasing migrant quotas to NZ, as for having a crack at JK mother, I think the left terminology is “Dirty Politics”

    • Refugee is defined as people leaving a disaster or war-zone. As many of these people are leaving Syria and Iraq, I think that qualifies them to be refugees and not migrants.

      Your sophistry is a rather piss-poor attempt to deflect from the problem and protect your party (National) from the condemnation it richly deserves.

    • Clemgeopin 12.2

      I think you do not understand what “Dirty Politics” means! Read the book to understand. It is not too expensive to buy.

      Here is the link to click.

      You are welcome!
      Cheers!

  13. Tory 13

    NZ is a democracy based on western and Christian values (I believe a prayer is still the norm in Parliment). Should I go to the Middle East and express my Christian values it is a crime punishable by death. As is being realised in Switzerland (where I currently am), once the migrants arrive the Kantons are being asked to provide buildings for mosques etc. Thisis little more than a “take over” and as seen in Belgium and Sweeden the migrants are not asimiliting to the western values but requiring the local areas to provide for their narrow minded religious views. This is leading to tensions that result in violence and this trend will increase.
    As for migrant versed refugee, I have seen enough first hand to realise many are taking the opportunity to pay to move to the west (something they couldn’t do under the previous dictatorships) rather than have been disposed through the direct affects of war and violence

    • Mike the Savage One 13.1

      The refugees from the places like Syria do have an over idealised view of countries like Germany, where so many want to head.

      They are likely to end up in refugee camps and hostels there, and have to be registered and will be required to abide by somewhat strict rules, including not being allowed to work.

      While I do not share religious sentiment, Christian or Muslim, I fear, they are part of a greater agenda at play. It is called Dawla Islamiyah, DI, or DAISH, and they are even happy driving hundreds of thousands off their now proclaimed “Caliphate” land territory, who object to their rule.

      The fact that many now move into Europe is part of their agenda, to destabilise “western” (“enemy”) countries. The high number of refugees is already leading to much tension between EU governments, and it will lead to tensions among populations in Europe, so the extreme right will exploit this, and make gains in coming elections.

      As the EU requires all governments to agree on policies and measures they want to take (the Commission for example), we can see already, due to actions by the governments of Hungary, of others like in Slovakia and yet some other states, that there will be NO unity on measures to accept and share the burden of refugees. So some countries will be left with taking on the major burden, which will frustrate and anger more people living there.

      Some refugees will perhaps be driven to extremism themselves, and later may turn out to be the new recruits of IS. The strategy of the IS is working out “perfectly”, sadly, in a very perverted way, as we can observe. IS is keen on a future religious war, of the faith of extreme, rigid Islam of their interpretation, against all non-believers. This is not meant to be some “joke” or exaggeration I make, this is real.

      Refugees deserve help and support, but it will not turn out as most will have hoped, disappointment and anger will spread. By turning their backs to the refugees, many “western” governments will actually serve the interests of IS.

      • Instauration 13.1.1

        Yep – those images from Hungary;
        Trains – refugees – seeking “the promised land” – camps with wire and watchtowers – to Concentrate the seekers – brutality – confusion – registration – assessment for accession to the promised land – sorting hats – selection – Global Games.
        Europe has seen this before. Let us hope it does not degenerate to those previous depths.

    • miravox 13.2

      Yeah, bugger it. They’re economic migrants, not seeking refuge – send them home!

      http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/syria-residents-homs-return-city-rubble-1448248

    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.3

      And that is what it’s like to see the world through right wing eyes: fear and hatred in a tiny little mind.

  14. Question 14

    Wont public displays like increasing refugee numbers (to highly desirable countries like Britain, Germany, Australia, NZ) tend to increase the number of people in trying to be refugees by a much greater number than they reduce the number of people in this situation?

  15. vto 15

    Key is a shameful ungrateful bastard

    He gets raised in a state house and then proceeds to sell the state houses

    His family get let in as special refugees and then he refuses to do the same

    What a shameful shameful pathetic weak person

  16. Tory 16

    So the anti-Semitic rhetoric that is wheeled out by the left when it comes to all things Israel is put to the side for political expediency.

    • vto 16.1

      So the anti-poor rhetoric that is wheeled out by the right and particularly by that shameful weak arsehole John Key at every occasion is continued even – not even put to the side. The right wing have no shame. They hate. Hater.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 16.2

      What anti-Semitic rhetoric? Don’t you know that the Palestinians are Semites?

      Is the rest of your self-serving drivel steeped in lies and ignorance too?

  17. Tory 17

    “So the anti poor rhetoric…..”
    Yep, I am hearing you, after all your poor ex leader confessed to only living in a “do-er-upper”
    Fuck it must be hard being a leftie when surrounded by wankers.

    • vto 17.1

      ha ha what a typical useless right wing limpwrist one-liner

      You lot have no idea – you lot should go away on your annual winter-escape hols to the pacific and northern hemisphere and stay there. Our country carries on fine without you. Don’t need you. Certainly don’t want you. Go away and stay away

  18. Tory 18

    I am overseas on holiday and enjoying the sun very much thanks. Keep having your wet dreams over Corbyn and the great socialist revolution, I’ll talk to you again post the next election when once again the left mull over the bones of another election defeat. Waiter, another bottle thanks 🙂

    • vto 18.1

      There we go folks – the right wing in all its glory

      smarmy
      unattractive
      unnecessary
      lazy
      hateful

      • Rodel 18.1.1

        Nah Ignore Tory.It’s not real (certainly not a real New Zealander).Maybe TS Needs captchas to thwart spam.

    • miravox 18.2

      “I am overseas on holiday and enjoying the sun very much thanks”

      And yet you spend your time making bullshit comments on a blog populated by people who disagree with you.

      Negates the travel broadens the mind theory.

  19. Tory 19

    I see that the largest contributor of military weaponry to Syria (Islamic, now there is a surprise) are critical of Europes immigration policies. Perhaps you lot would be better off asking wealthy Middle eastern countries why they are not accepting refugees/migrants rather than attempting to import them to NZ

    http://andrewhammel.typepad.com/german_joys/2015/09/wealthy-qatar-rejects-refugees-caused-by-its-policies-scolds-europe.html

    • Muttonbird 19.1

      Perhaps you lot would be better off asking wealthy Middle eastern countries why they are not accepting refugees/migrants

      Or perhaps our government could ask, because that’s their job.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 19.2

      Tory asks ‘why should we be any better than a bunch of anti-democratic human rights abusers?’

      No-one said you were, Tory.

    • Malconz 19.3

      Having spent several months in Qatar, I can tell you that except for its bleak capital, Doha, the place is a flat, barren desert, without a blade of grass. And tiny. Not much future there for refugees, Tory

  20. Tory 20

    If these migrants have made it to Turkey why do they need to move onto Western Europe? Turkey is large, wealthy and Islamic and right next door to the countries they lived in and is safe so no need to bring them to NZ.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 20.1

      Is that the best excuse for your beliefs you can articulate, Tory?

    • locus 20.2

      Tory:
      – did your ancestors (just one or two generations back) turn up invited to NZ’s shores?
      – do you feel that you own New Zealand now?
      – why did the Western Europeans let you in to their countries?
      – why are you so personally opposed to helping people whose lives have been devastated by wars?
      – why do you continue to post twisted and uninformed anonymous messages on a kiwi blog site while you’re supposedly having such a marvelous time touring Europe?
      – why would we want to let anyone like you back in to NZ when you return from your travels around Europe?

    • locus 20.3

      Anyway – back to the point of this excellent post by Bunji

      “Get some guts Mr Key…….

  21. Enough is Enough 21

    I hate John Key

    • One Anonymous Bloke 21.1

      Then I suggest you study the difference between hating someone and noticing that they’re damaged goods.

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