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How To Get There 15/9/19

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, September 15th, 2019 - 31 comments
Categories: Deep stuff - Tags:


This post is a place for positive discussion of the future.

An Open Mike for ideas, solutions and the discussion of the possible.

The Big Picture, rather than a snapshot of the day’s goings on. Topics rather than topical.

We’d like to think it’s success will be measured in the quality of comments rather than the quantity.

So have at it!

Let us know what you think …

31 comments on “How To Get There 15/9/19 ”

  1. greywarshark 1

    China and NZ, our democratic future – in what form? What do we think and know? Just a few thoughts from others. This on a thread on a Slavoj Zizek post which is interesting.

    Žižek: against both state socialism & anarchism from zizek

    Thread: level 4 kyoceran 15 points · 2 days ago

    'On the other hand, he has repeatedly stated that the current Chinese government, with its communist ideology and market economy, is an ideal state. Perhaps see his introduction to Mao's Practice and Contradiction.'

    I don't know what you mean by 'ideal state' here because he is explicitly critical of contemporary China. When he brings up the communist gov't + market economy he is to some degree reeling in horror because their success has been predicated on combining the two nightmares of every 20th century leftist: authoritarian gov't and free market. Furthermore, when he's talking about the big threats today like bio-genetic engineering, ecological catastrophe, digital control — China is the exemplar of these horrors. Zizek can hardly say "China" without saying "and I am critical of China".

    Whenever Zizek does express (something akin to) hope, he's typically talking about the potentials of the European Union. I think his ideal state is really some sort of super EU with European ideological foundations (by this I mean things like egalitarianism, Marxism, etc). He does invoke something like a strong state when talking about fighting global ecological crisis, but he is vague regarding specifics. He may mean a central power, he may mean transnational collaboration with actual authority. I think he is open to revolutionary ideas here.

  2. greywarshark 2

    On ideologies and maybe why it is so hard for the Labour Cabinet to make changes.


    Slavoj Zizek often quotes Marx but departs from his views also.

    [F]or him, ideology is not a veil that can be removed to show the true nature of things. Instead, ideology is an integral part of reality. What this means is that an ideological individual who throws away their ideology does not actually start to see things how they really are but rather dissolves reality – themselves included.

    Beings depend on their ideological reality, and the collapse of that reality forces them into a different one. In that sense, we cannot simply start treating money as the everyday physical object that it is, without throwing away the whole reality that it supports.

    This from Ne'stor de Buen who holds an MA in Social Sciences from The University of Chicago.

    • Agora 2.1

      There is a pale washed-out blue hoarding as you head east through the Miramar cutting of a candidate promising A New Approach. That is all..

      Is that the best Peter's money can buy these days?

  3. greywarshark 4


    It's going to be huge say FF. So too big to ignore. Okay let's get on with in then, and I am sure it will be before 2030. Read for details.

    "This package affects urban – our city cousins, as much as it does farmers. This is going to be huge, this is not just a farming package.

    "The fact that it affects councils [means] everyone needs to understand that it's a big undertaking and it's going to cost a lot of money, so expect rates to go up."

    Well as a townie, I'm game for doing the necessary. Don't tell me that farmers are too chicken! I call on the boundless spirit of Fred Dagg to appear in black singlet, shorts and gumboots to bless the process.

    • bwaghorn 4.1

      I bet not 1 mayoral candidate is standing on a platform of big rate raises to fix urban water issues.

      • Sacha 4.1.1

        To their credit, Auckland's recent mayors and councillors have bitten the bullet on fixing the hidden infrastructure that decades of C&R councils before them neglected in order to 'keep rates down' on wealthy landowners.

        Oh and urban waterways are 1% of the total. A handy diversion by the representatives of regressive industrial farming though.

        Thank goodness some farmers are showing the change can not only be made but be profitable.

        • bwaghorn

          Sssh dont mention the unswimable beaches.

          • Sacha

            Hey, the beaches are more effective in getting public attention than the many miles of urban streams backing onto industrial polluters ever have been.

            Same with rural swimming holes..

        • Molly

          Credit may be due – but it is small. The climate change framework proposal for Auckland Council is embarassingly inadequate.

          ATEED is a expense that is unnecessary for providing long-term infrastructure to Aucklanders, and that budget should be diminished or removed before further rate increases are – once again – put onto ratepayers.

          I have no problem with rate contribution, but do oppose being given targeted rates for what I consider to be fundamental responsibilities of local government, when there are substantial amounts of money being spent elsewhere.

      • greywarshark 4.1.2

        You're such a cynic bwaghorn! Someone might surprise you but they will leave that word 'big' out.

        That tree link root-branch is informative and the images are great.

        It sounds to me as if mixed plantations would be good. And as we are having trouble on the coast, what about putting quick growing pines there? They would be left, not milled until the sea washed them away. But what about pine needles. Perhaps its mangroves we should be planting on coastlines. They gather mud which isn't wanted in some estuaries, but could be good for the coastlines as a defence, along with marram grass which can help hold dunes. Some of those weeds are what we need, i think.

        As for natives, we would want to have a mix of fruit bearing trees with others for furniture, bees etc.

        I wonder if there are places where wild apricot trees could grow. They have special needs and the ones in Otago were smothered by the Clyde dam though that was the centre for them in NZ – they have high Vitamin A I think. So somewhere else they could be grown, and visiting the area to pick the crop could be a local earner.

        I didn't think much of the idea of just leaving land fallow and waiting for it to regenerate. It's having fruit bearing trees that birds spread the seed of that really gets them going. Unless the land is going to be hold by gorse which is a good nurturing plant but of course that's a thorny subject!

      • Graeme 4.1.3

        Not really a "rates" rise, but we have our incumbent in Queenstown standing on a 5% bed tax on visitor accomodation which will go a long way to dealing with the peaking issues having peaks of 80 -100,000 visitors in a town of 10,000 bring. It's already been to a postal referendum and 81.4% vote in favour from a 41.5% turnout

        Needless to say some in the accomodation sector are less than impressed and have put up a candidate who's vowing to do away with the bed tax, but still do more than any past council to fix the problems. He's a bit light on specifics and has little understanding of what's involved, or how it would be funded

      • Ad 4.1.4

        Phil Goff in Auckland is standing on a continuation of a significant extra water charge.

        His Council has also commissioned work on the single largest water-sewer separation project in many decades.

        He is also campaigning on the continuation of the fuel tax for Auckland transport projects.

        His main opponent John Tamihere opposes both of these.

        There you go.

  4. greywarshark 6

    A very pretty horse and I think let's do a sister country thing and combine with Norway to raise these Norse horses here.


  5. greywarshark 7

    How to change to a better path. Offer to walk with someone to go and vote, or take them in your car. Organise with cafes near voting booths to invite people to drop in after, show their voting card, and get a discount on a cupper and cake say!

    Prof Janine Hayward Politics Professor Otago Uni says it is an international thing, falling voting numbers.

    Telling people off for not voting is not the way to boost voter turnout in elections, University of Otago politics professor Janine Hayward says.

    More people tended to vote if they perceived it was a tight contest and they felt their vote was going to matter, or if there was an issue which they were passionate about.

    It could be a challenge for local government candidates if there were no divisive issues and the message was "aren't we doing well with freshwater and parks and recreation facilities that we all benefit from all the time?''

    Constant reminders in the media about the election with plenty of information about policies and the candidates helped raise awareness.

    A clear polling date "when everything stops'' also assisted, but with a postal vote when people had their papers well before the polling date, that did not apply.

    Low voter turnout was not just a local government issue, it was an international problem in all types of elections and there was no "silver bullet'' solution.

    At the last local government elections in 2016, Dunedin was one of five urban areas which recorded a slight increase in turnout, up from 43.1% of voters in 2013 to 45.7%. Only one of the 11 urban areas, Nelson City, had more than a 50% turnout.

  6. Ad 8

    It was hard not to be inspired watching Greta Thunberg on The Daily Show with Tevor Noah.

    She is hilariously blunt about her mother, what she cares about, and what she doesn't.

    Admittedly they are the softest of softball questions, but what the hey:

    • greywarshark 8.1

      She is extremely capable and fluent in explaining and in her second language. Definitely for everyone to watch, especially me as i hadn't heard her speak, only about her.

  7. Exkiwiforces 9

    Here some interesting replanting going on up at the Daintree River area, with farmers, horticultural producers, tourism sector and the community are all involved.


    And the link from the ABC’s Landline.


    This one is a little bit more disturbing as I fish for Barra, but at not moment as they have seem to have gone of tap and this might be why?

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-12/daly-river-in-northern-territory-totally-bereft-of-barramundi/11505436 Just to note: I don’t fish the Daly River, but I do the fish Finnis River which is to the Nth of the Daly and around the Bynoe Harbour Area which are near my bush estate.

    One last thing, September is the start of the Northern build up where the temperature starts going up along with the humidity, but the humidity has dropped like a brick into low teens or single figures with temperatures in the mid to high 30’s and this week coming maybe the low’s 40’s.

    I had an interesting Friday the 13th and during Saturday, but I’m not sure if I can post some video footage here via my Flickr account which was shot by my wife from our main residential place here in rural Darwin.

    • greywarshark 9.1

      You reminded me of a Brazilian deal with USA that I heard about but haven't followed up. The wealthy are running around the globe making green work for the unemployed perhaps? Kind!

      Waking up to the importance of rain forest – (commercial importance with another way of hiking profits off it?).


      The US and Brazil have agreed to promote private-sector development in the Amazon, during a meeting in Washington on Friday.

      They also pledged a $100m (£80m) biodiversity conservation fund for the Amazon led by the private sector.

      Brazil's foreign minister said opening the rainforest to economic development was the only way to protect it.

      and Forbes with some more info.




      'It Is Our Very Governments Who Are Killing the Earth.' A Brazilian Indigenous Leader Speaks Out On Deforestation in the Amazon

      Benki Pyãnko is a community leader from Apiwtxa, an Ashaninka community situated in the Amazonian state of Acre, Brazil. He has led projects to defend his community from deforestation and to defend Ashaninka rights and culture in the indigenous territory of Terra Kampa do Rio Amônia. His community's sustainability projects were awarded an Equator Prize by the U.N. in 2017.

      All the best over there. What are your ideas for keeping areas cooler around your house?

  8. Agora 10

    Critical parts of regional NSW to run out of water by November? Climate refugees?


  9. "How to Get There" – take note of the constructive things the Government is doing rather than get embroiled in pointless scandals

    • gsays 11.1

      Listening to a political show on RNZ on Sunday morning, as I drove to work.

      I found myself moved to tears as the Rua Kenana story was covered.

      The pain I heard in the politicians voices was profound.

      The violence and injustice visited on the prophet by the state (including the murder of his son, Toko) seems inordinate for the 'crime' he was wanted for.

      70 heavily armed police needed for the arrest for sedition, leads to a 47 day trial.

      He is found not guilty but jailed for a year for resisting the police.

      I agree rob, we need to acknowledge some of the positive changes, the teaching of Aotearoa history being a good current example.

    • greywarshark 11.2

      Which comments here were about 'pointless scandals'? I thought we are discussing the reality of basic things here, and the positive things that local and national governments might do, are not doing well at present, or might do after watching and hearing world activists and informed scientists.

  10. greywarshark 12

    Coral reef good news. It's not all hopeless. We can try and we can care, we can take kaitiaki roles – some of us, and each government should have money to pay people willing to do that.

    They would say, I have expertise and I and a mate would like to be kaitiaki where we can do good, or try something, or assist another group. And we will report back with images and factual info on the task, and a university centre will co-ordinate, collate and watch over the various workers, and be a mother to them, see they are well, not over-stressed, getting the resources and assistance they need and report to the nation each six months on what is being done.



    The Timaru Herald: 2019-09-16 – Coral reefs … – PressReader
    https://www.pressreader.com › new-zealand › the-timaru-herald
    2 hours ago – Coral reefs can be healed. … When each stub grows to about the size of a human hand, Simpson collects them in his crate to individually ''transplant'' them on to a reef. Even fast-growing coral species add just a few inches a year.




    https://futureoflife.org/category/not-cool/?cn-reloaded=1 Not Cool Ep 4: Jessica Troni on helping countries adapt to climate change

    Kaitiaki at home: https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/115643245/students-press-council-over-marlborough-sounds-marine-quality

  11. greywarshark 13

    Two really special TedTalks – because they tell us what will keep us staying ahead of disaster and having some time to enjoy each other's company going into the hard future, coping with the disorienting present.


    This is about how collaboration will get you a long way ahead of having stars and everyone trying to also be one. The woman Margaret Heffernan, refers to it as the super-checken syndrome. If you have heard it before it is worth listening to again because it goes against the flow.

    In a real test, there were two lots of chickens – one kept healthy and in their normal flock. The other was constantly bred for competitive egg layers, with each lot of chickens being bred from the highest performers. After 6 generations the flock was doing well, and egg production had gone up. The super-chickens had only two left in it, the others had been pecked to death or similar.

    Another from Ms Heffernan was on the lines that we are too machine dependent and losing imagination. The tendency is to rely on machines to do the thinking, and our own slips. Machines are more efficient. She says that we cannot rely on efficiency today, too many variables require the ability to adapt quickly.

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    Onsite learning at schools in Level 3 regions will start from next week for senior secondary school students to prepare for end of year exams, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “Secondary schools in these regions will start onsite learning for years 11 to 13 on Tuesday 26 October,” Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago