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If I were John Key

Written By: - Date published: 9:30 am, July 22nd, 2016 - 104 comments
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If I were John Key trying to get the momentum back off the Opposition heading towards re-election next year, I’d start my next big speech like this:

Right now, if you’re born poor, you will die an average nine years earlier than the others.

If you’re in a state school, you’re less likely to reach the top professions than if you’re educated privately.

If you suffer from mental health problems, there’s not enough help at hand.

If you’re young, you’ll find it harder than ever before to own your own home.

If you’re from an ordinary, working-class family, life is just that much harder than people realize.

You have a job, but you don’t always have job security.

You can just about manage, but you worry about the cost of living and the quality of the local school

It is why we will make … a society that works for everyone, so we can bring people back together rich and poor, north and south, urban and rural, brown and white …

Because it is apparent to anybody who is in touch with the real world that … to any member of the public, the frustration they feel about the loss of control over their day-to-day lives is obvious….

And we need to get tough on irresponsible behavior by big business.

Because we don’t just believe in markets, but communities.

We don’t just believe in individualism, but society.

We believe that everybody, not just the privileged few, has a right to take ownership of what matters in their lives.

And then,” said Labour’s leader Jeremy Corbyn …

Wrong.

“And then,” said new Conservative leader of Great Britain Theresa May two weeks ago, “we will build a better Britain.”

Surprised? Though it was Corbyn did you?

John Key should take notes: be truthful, be blunt, and believe.

104 comments on “If I were John Key ”

  1. save nz 1

    Lets face it, the only move Key has is to send MSM to say Labour does it too.

  2. Anne 2

    Thought it was Corbyn? Nope.

    …need to get tough on irresponsible behavior by big business.

    Because we don’t just believe in markets, but communities.

    We don’t just believe in individualism, but society.

    We believe that everybody, not just the privileged few, has a right to take ownership of what matters in their lives.

    Give away words. Corbyn would never have uttered them. The last sentence reeked of condescension.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.1

      Exactly.

      The RWNJs have to sound like progressive/enlightened people so that they can fool people into voting for them. Once in power they then start dismantling society for the benefit of the rich.

      • Enough is Enough 2.1.1

        That’s the way to win an election Draco.

        People don’t like to be described as fools for voting a particular way. Insulting them hardens their resolve.

        Try Positivity, it will bring them across

  3. mac1 3

    I have to say, through gritted teeth, that maybe at least part of that huge shift in the Roy Morgan poll is down to the notion that John Key might be getting his message across to enough people.

    Mind you, this is not what I hear from the people I contact. The housing issue is huge.

    But then again, I have seen my National MP say that local housing prices have increased by 9% over the past year. He did not seem distressed by this fact. He did not go on to say how difficult this would be for people whose wages have increased by just 1%, and who live in an economy where inflation grew by 1%.

    He did say that finding accommodation for thousands of workers in the wine industry, both temporary and permanent, will be problematic in the next few years.

    While that sort of pressure is on, on top of new migrants and dealing with the existing shortfall, those voters who are benefitting from good times in grapes and such industry, and the housing boom might be reflecting in Roy Morgan, at least partly.

    The essence of politics seems to be to keep just enough people happy, while doing your best to keep dissatisfied people away from voting through disillusionment and disengagement.

  4. mac1 4

    My reaction to what PM May said, is that focus-group derived policy-making would show the concerns of which she speaks. She’s a new PM. She can give hope for a new “caring conservative” government as we saw in the US under Bush the Younger, and touted here in NZ as well by National. I bet that old package will be re-invented.

    So as a new PM, unencumbered by the old regime’s failure, because she is certainly not going to allude to her Party’s failure and responsibility for the present too much, will talk about hope, and “building a brighter future”.

    Like Key and National here, she will be utterly pragmatic about keeping power, and change, as internal or public polls suggest, when necessary.

    Our local MP has authorised and run a full page spread in the local paper, paid for by Parliamentary services. This full page spread consists of colour photographs, with captions- no real narrative or argument- showing in essence how energetic, in touch and hard-working he is and, note this, how close he is to the PM, as the two feature together in three out of fifteen photos.

    Delivering the ‘hard-working’ and “successful going forward” message of an MP who is “passionate” about his province, this is tax payer funded, and very effective I’d hazard, propaganda under the guise of reporting back to the electorate.

    Where else in the country have we seen such newspaper usage for political messaging?

    Because I’d say that this is what “If I were John Key” is saying, right now.

  5. Stuart Munro 5

    Keep some promises. 170 000 jobs? Strong growing economy? Wage parity with OZ?Aspirational society?

    Denying and forgetting will only take you so far.

  6. James 6

    Love it. Labour have mr 7% and are getting killed in the polls. And you offer advise to Mr Key.

    I’m sure little would appreciate the help more.

    • b waghorn 6.1

      As always the point being made went so far over your head you didn’t even see the vapour trail

  7. Bill 7

    JK –

    Today, with Labour announcing policies that speak to a natural National constituency: of buying houses and retirement savings, I’m reminded that Margaret Thatcher said her greatest achievement was Tony Blair and New Labour and I just want to note that today, here in NZ, we still make hay from that unchanging change in history.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.2

      +1

      Labour still seek to get the failed paradigm that they introduced in the 1980s working.

      Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

  8. Anno1701 8

    id love to answer this honestly

    but id get the ban hammer……

    • Sabine 8.1

      ahh c’mon a bit of courage 🙂

      • Anno1701 8.1.1

        “ahh c’mon a bit of courage ”

        its not really suitable for for “civilized” discourse 😉

        • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.1

          C’mon, don’t leave us hanging

          • Anno1701 8.1.1.1.1

            “C’mon, don’t leave us hanging”…… ironic

            • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1.1.1.1

              I think I have enough to go on:

              if you were John Key you’d HANG around until the 2020 election so as to see the good work you’ve done in working this one of the best countries in the world doesn’t go to waste

              Is that it?

              • b waghorn

                Eight years to achieve what?
                Auckland is grinding to a halt, housing is out of reach for many , more people in jails and on the street , rural medical centers can’t get staff , terrific teachers have to waste many hours fund raising for their underfunded schools , its said that people are accepting this shit .

              • Anno1701

                “one of the best countries in the world”

                lol…you perpetrate that fantasy all you want bud…

                brings a new meaning to “living the dream”

    • Molly 8.2

      In that case, +100.

    • Siobhan 8.3

      Or you’ll get called ‘a Fuckwit’…moderating ‘The Standard’ way.
      It’s a shame, because, speaking for myself, you always end up ‘self moderating’ to avoid the wrath of certain people on this site who think its all part of the ‘rough and tumble’ to act like they are the President of the local Bikie gang.
      They think themselves as being the last of the warfie style union hard men, but while they can hand it out, they sure can’t take it.
      One is reminded, if you don’t like it ‘get off your arse'(quote) and start your own site. Which is an odd way to run encourage a broader audience for political discourse.

      • Anno1701 8.3.1

        “They think themselves as being the last of the warfie style union hard men,”

        to be fair some of my politcal leaning/attitudes would make a “union hard man” blush….

  9. platitudes only fill up middle class tummy’s ad

  10. Siobhan 10

    Be Truthful…like Theresa May?? Okey-dokey, lets put that away in our quotes for future reference. Meantime,

    When I heard this speech..the first seven statements
    …I thought she was giving a run down of Tory and New Labour achievements.

    • marty mars 10.1

      just a general personal question

      is Siobhan pronounced like Shavaughn – do you make the vaughan into a baughan or leave it as a ‘v’ or just say it fast…

  11. save nz 11

    The beauty of the right is that they mimic the left in words (but not policy) and policy is kept secret or without details for the most part. And then the left think they should mimic the right policy because that is what people want…

    • Michelle 11.1

      The rights policy is to sell and privatize then the rest is made up as they go along no evaluation then you will see all there shortcomings and we can’t have that .

  12. One Two 12

    Theresa May is an awful human being if using her political career as reference

    Not as untrustworthy as Hillary, but very close

    Never mind though, ‘because woman’

  13. john 13

    Lets see, in order of appearance above
    A quote from a self made millionaire:
    “The best way to help the poor…not be one of them”
    Meaning: Self help, is the best help.
    Education: A tool provided to you.
    Advice:…..Use it.
    example/ parable.
    If the life you want is a painting…a master piece.
    Then you will need to hang that painting, small nail for a small painting and a large nail for a large painting.
    Nail = qualification.
    Hammer = Education system
    Meaning …The bigger the nail the bigger the painting the more work you will have to do with the hammer
    the bigger the life you want, the bigger the qualification the harder you will have to work.
    Mental health: Unfortunate, difficult but a problem with a different announced solution every 5 minutes, it seems.
    Home owner ship has always been hard: Today it is raw prices, in the 80’s it was repayment costs when the average wage was around $30000 the repayments on a $100000 mortgage was about $1200 per month. Now that will be on about a
    $300 000 mortgage and the average wage is about $60 000.
    Everybody who works can always improve themselves, take application.
    Job security is a myth told about the “old Days”. People don’t stay in a job longer than 5 years these days and jobs change all the time.
    Cost of living?????…Inflation is at 2%.
    NO govt. can MAKE a society work….That is up to the individual and the collective population…each time/anywhere that govt.’s have tried….they have FAILED.
    Control that you have is dependant on….YOU!!! nobody is stopping you from doing whatever you like…starting a business in NZ is easier than in almost the rest of the world…..If you want to practice…Join Amway, Nutrametics, Avon, Tupperware.
    ALL valid business that can earn you more money and help your lifestyle, BUT you must WORK at it.
    Yes we do have to get tough on irresponsible behaviour (when you find it) on business’ , unions (not filing tax returns, bullying anti democratic behaviour), political parties that break the law around elections (Labour).
    Markets are communities and communities are the market place. One does not exist without the other EQUALLY.
    Individualism and society are interlinked…without good hard working individuals all working together…society does not exist.
    Non statement….taking ownership means taking RESPONSIBILITY for your own life and not impacting negatively on others.
    So I hope for Britain’s sake this is what she means……I KNOW it’s not what Corbyn stands for.

    • dv 13.1

      80s when the average wage was around $30000 the repayments on a $100000 mortgage

      We bought at 3x salary for 45k in the early 80s.

      • john 13.1.1

        SO WHAT!!!
        $30 000 = approx. $1875 in the hand per month
        $60000 = Approx. $3750 in the hand per month
        on a $1200 per month mortgage
        so in the 80’s you had $675 per month left over
        and now you had $2550 per month left over
        So if you buy the house you can afford, save the deposit for as long as you need to.
        You are in a much better position now than then.

        • dv 13.1.1.1

          Nope same house now is 10 salary.

          Better off in the 80s thanks.

          • john 13.1.1.1.1

            Better off in the 80’s……really. You obviously never lived through them then!!!!
            $675 /month to pay rates, electricity, gas, insurance (compulsory with a mortgage), maintenance etc ……I seem to have forgotten something….OH yes, that’s it………..FOOD (can’t pay a mortgage if you starve).
            Better in the 80’s….you have absolutely no idea!!!!!

            • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1.1.1.1.1

              🙄

              You’re becoming incoherent, John. Dribbling the same gobshite down your chin over and over again doesn’t make it true: far more articulate liars than you have also failed to convince reality to fit their lies.

              • john

                IDIOT: name the lies then.
                When you call someone a liar, prove it. I gave you the numbers and the proof from my own experience and education.
                or are you Andrew Little in disguise, that tells lies about people and is then surprised when they sue him??

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  I already have named your lies about work and wealth, John.

                  I’ve named your lies about taxes.

                  dv’s 10x annual salary stat gives the lie to your lies about relative purchasing power from the 80’s to the present day.

                  Your vacuous weasel insults re: work directed at Siobhan are based on lies.

                  Your lies about charter schools are lies, John.

                  Why do you tell these lies John? You’re very shit at it so I’m picking you for stupid and gullible.

            • dv 13.1.1.1.1.2

              Yep Lived thru the 80s
              And salary was about 15k NOT 30k
              Bought house. Pd 15% second mortgage.
              Had a comfortable if not lavish living

              I am sorry you had such a tough time John

              But your numbers don’t stack up.
              Average salary 2500 nth
              Expenses 675mth Plus mort say 500 mth ($50k house)
              leaving 1000mth for food.

        • Siobhan 13.1.1.2

          And while you’re saving how much rent are you paying?? Then to now. Does anyone have the figures for this?
          You also need to include the student loan debt, and thats not just for those at University.
          I wonder how that is playing out for young people when they visit the bank..24 year olds with $30.000..hilarious.

          • john 13.1.1.2.1

            24 year olds will only have been in the work force for a maximum of 2-3 years. Of course they can’t afford a deposit. It took me till 27 years old (in the 80’s)and my father in the 70’s was 45 years old. Both of us had to work lots of over time (in my fathers case) up to 70hours a week.
            Me it was rotating shifts and being on call for weekends and holidays.
            20% deposit and $100 000 mortgage paying $1200 per month.
            Answer: The situation at present is just the situation….get on and figure out what you have to do, what life style changes you have to make to get on the property ladder (if that’s what you want).
            After all that is what EVERBODY has had to do, going back generations.
            It is no different now that then, except their are more opportunities now. Just like then, you have to take them and work yes W O R K hard until you achieve them.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1.1.2.1.1

              What could you possibly teach the Labour movement about hard work? All you’ve got is rote-learned lies and inarticulate reckons.

              • john

                Really??? and your proof???……….any research by recognised parties???
                NO…didn’t think so. Just like the rest on here, you believe as did Lenin…”A lie told often enough becomes the truth”

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  You stupid witless fool, I’m a social democrat. Are you such a total fuckwit that squealing about Lenin is your only answer to someone pointing how many lies you tell?

                  Several links on this page (including but not limited to comments by me), made in answer to your lies, prove that they’re lies John. Stop being such a lazy liar and read them.

                  You will carry on telling these lies because you lack the cognitive ability to do anything else, John.

    • Andrea 13.2

      Ah, but has Ms Kitten Shoes hugged a hoodie yet?

      More to the point – who’s going to be sanctioned so they can pay for the high speed rail and Trident?

      It all sounds lovely. Bright shiny objects and hope. ‘They’ve heard us!’ As her predecessor (lovely word!) said, ‘Calm down dear!’

      Watch what they do before you listen to what they say.

  14. One Anonymous Bloke 14

    Let me guess: the pathway to this (let’s be honest) litany of lies is to cut taxes and slash government spending.

    • john 14.1

      Cut taxes ie LEAVE more money in every individuals pocket.
      Cut waste in govt., reduce ridiculous spending (don’t we all do that with our own wages?)
      These are excellent ideas, used to be called “Living within your means” note NOT sponging of other peoples hard work (taxes).
      When you leave as much money in the peoples pocket, THEY decide how to spend it and how THEY want to live. NOT some faceless people in some inefficient ministry miles from where you live, both physically and figuratively.

      • Stuart Munro 14.1.1

        It’s a great story – but we know this leads to depressed economies, increased crime, falling standards and so forth.

        So, points for emotional appeal – no points for delivered outcomes.

        • Richard McGrath 14.1.1.1

          Tax cuts won’t deliver outcomes unless state spending is cut too – not spending per se, but spending by politicians and bureaucrats.

          • Stuart Munro 14.1.1.1.1

            Much of state spending isn’t from taxes – that needs to continue or increase for its multiplier effects.

            Certainly NZ isn’t getting bang for its tax dollar – but shambling masses of corruption like Key, Brownlee, Collins et al were hardly going to address that issue.

        • john 14.1.1.2

          Bull:
          In EVERY economy, when taxes are cut the result has always been.
          1. an increase in economic growth due to the spending power of the individual.
          2. Paradoxically, an increase in tax revenue, due to the increased spending power of the individual and the economic growth it creates.
          TRUE in ALL economies.

          • joe90 14.1.1.2.2

            In EVERY economy, when taxes are cut the result has always been.

            Not in Kansas, toto…..

            1. Kansas’s tax cuts sharply decreased tax revenue.

            […]

            2. The tax cuts have wiped out Kansas’s budget surplus.

            […]

            3. To finance the tax cuts, Kansas has also been forced to cut back on education spending..

            […]

            4. Tax cuts aren’t improving Kansas’s economy either – job growth is lagging.

            […]

            5. Kansas even lags behind its neighbors in job growth.

            http://www.thinkncfirst.org/research/kansass-tax-cut-disaster-explained-in-five-charts

            • john 14.1.1.2.2.1

              Then I suggest they leave Kansas and get a job elsewhere, because the governing of Kansas is incompetent. This is the whole benefit of a federal system of govt.

              • John

                RELAX

              • joe90

                So, no acknowledgement that your statement – TRUE in ALL economies, is a lie.

                • john

                  So you found a SMALL state that MAY suit you narrative.
                  Now lets looks at REAL economies and see if it stands up in them?
                  Even the Chinese admitted that their success in economic growth came , when they adopted a more “capitalist approach” to business and export.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    *whoosh!*

                    Watch those goal-posts move!

                    You were telling lies about taxes, John. Don’t try and change the subject.

                    • john

                      No lies, this is what happened here and in Australia.
                      Your economic blindness, must mean you are lock step the ridiculous Grant Robertson, who doesn’t even know the difference between revenue and profit!

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    If you’re going to assert facts, Lying John, you tell too many lies for anyone to take your word for it.

                    Link to the “proof” of the lies you were spoonfed, John.

                    PS: I have no idea what Grant Robertson thinks of your lies John, but I bet he hasn’t quite as much contempt for them as I have.

                    • john

                      Name the lies….
                      also give evidence as to why they are lies.
                      ALL you do when confronted with inconvenient truths and counter opinions, is call someone a liar…with NO evidence.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Already have, Lying John. I linked to the proof that your charter school lies are lies. Others linked to the proof that your tax lies are lies. I presented an argument (nurses, miners) that your lies about wealth and work are lies, Judging by how many lies you tell, you have no credibility, Lying John. At this point I doubt you could identify Australia on a map.

                      Meanwhile, Lying John, you have not linked to anything supporting a single one of your lies. That’s because you’re lying, Lying John.

                      You already failed, because you’re a liar, to answer this response once. Further repetition of your whining lies will simply cement your well-earned reputation for mendacity.

                  • joe90

                    So you found a SMALL state that MAY suit you narrative.

                    With half the population and two thirds the GDP of NZ, Kansas ain’t small.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 14.1.2

        John, that story you rote-learned is a lie. It’s weird you haven’t noticed that.

        And stop whinging about having to obey the law; pay your taxes, and try not to be so ungrateful for all the benefits you’ve received in your lifetime.

        It’s so lame, repeating someone else’s zombie lies. Why do you do it?

        • john 14.1.2.1

          Really???
          Profession reviews by recognised universities have successively agreed that charter school work, within the framework for which they were designed. Nobody said anything about rote learning!!!
          But if you want to argue, lets look at history, much fast and great advancements in technology occurred during the late 19th century up to the 1980’s when “rote learning” (eg times table etc) were starting to be done away with because they were “old fashioned”. Now many tutors, private, are going back to this method of teaching the basics of Maths, reading and writing. Only using more modern methods for the more advanced stuff.
          Not whinging about paying tax, just sick of people whinging about people who worked hard, at school, in their job, in their business and became successful and wealthy.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 14.1.2.1.1

            That’s one of the lies to which I’m referring, the oft-believed lie that wealth is a function of hard work, on account of all the wealthy nurses, miners and slaves hedge-fund managers.

            Let’s extend the National Party Madrassa model to all state schools: five times the funding works wonders, and yet right wing wankers (like you, John) pay so much lip service to how “throwing money” at things is wrong. When it suits your hypocrisy, that is.

            • john 14.1.2.1.1.1

              Miners and wharfies are paid better than Doctors!!!!
              Charter schools get less per student than state schools….in operating funding.
              The narrative of the ridiculous unions (I use this word because they think we can’t read a book of accounts).
              Where they add the set up costs of charter schools to their operating budget.
              But remove any set up costs and only look at the operating budget for state schools.
              When you are HONEST about the costs. Charter schools are cheaper to set up and run, than state schools and within their operating parameters are (albeit with a short observation period) achieving higher levels of; achievement among students, than similar demographics of state schools.
              ie low decile non achievers in state schools, do much better when moved to charter schools. This is why there are huge waiting lists for charter schools, because parents recognise this.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Yawn. You can parrot the dogma, I see.

                Or are you lying deliberately, because you’re trash?

                Which are you John: lying, or an empty-headed mouthpiece?

                • john

                  So, no argument then, just empty insult, the last bastion of a looser.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    You will notice that some words are highlighted in blue.

                    That’s called a link: you “click” on the words, and you will see the proof that you are lying.

                    *loser

      • Macro 14.1.3

        Cut taxes ie LEAVE more money in every individuals 1%ers pocket.

        FIFY

        • john 14.1.3.1

          Are you suggesting that ONLY the top 1% wealthiest people actually pay tax, because that is the ONLY way they would be the sole beneficiaries of tax cuts.

    • Ad 14.2

      Brexit’s likely consequences give Prime Minister May the license to govern towards a far more autonomous and independent Britain.

      While in the past I’ve mentioned independent foreign policy, if she read her people right she would develop:
      – A double-down of support for the finance economy within London (because it keeps London afloat)
      – A Britain-first procurement policy for defence e.g. requiring more and more kit to be built on their shores
      A Britain-first procurement policy for key transport and electricity generation infrastructure e.g. trains, wind farms
      – A transition away from oil, even in vehicles, so that they become more self-reliant in all energy needs
      – Massive tax assistance for pharmaceutical and other large manufacturing industries
      – A food manufacturing tariff programme – really shutting exporters like NZ out in favour of their own farms and their own rural economy

      Brexit gives May full political license for a full New Zealand First approach.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 14.2.1

        OK, we’ll see what unfolds. Perhaps your touching faith will prove well placed.

      • john 14.2.2

        Agreed, once all the hoopla has settled down and all the self interested students stop whinging. They may see that the “remainers” have been lying to them all these years.
        “Better in”………really??
        Britain’s trade deficit (yes deficit) with Europe….$80b USD
        Britain’s immigration deficit with Europe.. only low skilled and sometimes welfare bludgers from EU into Britain, British highest educated exported to EU (Why do you think the students wanted to stay?)
        Britain one of only 3 countries paying into the EU (others were France and Germany)
        Britain 2nd highest payer.
        Massive costs to Britain to maintain EU presence in the EU parliament ( massive waste of money).
        Quite apart from the ridiculous regulations and over arching laws they passed in the EU that badly effected Britain’s economy and impacted some of it’s long standing industries, one being fishing.

  15. Jono 15

    No individualism does not work well with society as individualism is the main thread of the free market.
    Individualism and the free market split society because of greed. Greed is the key and is what is responsible for our housing crisis etc
    Greed leads to selfishness which is where society suffers. If you follow the logic.
    Chris Hedges has talked a lot about this.

    • Reddelusion 15.1

      How silly, the high price of houses is simply the signal there are not enough houses, There are not enough houses because successive government and council red tape and market interference has made it so Even if investment property and speculation was banned there would still not be enough houses if regulatory, council and immigration settings remained constant, Greed is irrelevant The market reacts a lot quicker to supplying a need than government if it is allowed to, look at the RB trying to control inflation and the exchange, always miles behind. What you seem to think is the government some how can forecast future housing need, build them efficiently and match supply to demand and all will be well, The history of planned economies shows the fallacy of this be it wastage, lack of choice, corruption re who gets a house or state unit , lack of innovation and inefficiency Let the market do it without constraining it, apply sensible regulation ( constraining land is not one, either is excessive time and cost in consent) if you don’t want the market to operate then don’t blame the market. Greed is simply people reacting economically rationally to what is in front of them All that is happening now is the market been freed up to respond. Unfortunately the market has pent up mismatch between demand and supply of 20 years to deal with

      • Anno1701 15.1.1

        “How silly, the high price of houses is simply the signal there are not enough houses”

        lol….. are we EVER going to build enough houses for a potential market of what 3-4 billion ?

        extra supply will just exacerbate the problem

        • Reddelusion 15.1.1.1

          Wow thats pretty impressive population growth for NZ

          • Anno1701 15.1.1.1.1

            you do realise anyone in the world can buy our houses dont you ?

            we have no restrictions on foreign ownership

            we will NEVER build enough houses to meet demand, more builds will just fuel the specualtive bubble even further, just look at Ireland

            we are only half way there

      • Draco T Bastard 15.1.2

        There are not enough houses because successive government and council red tape…

        BS

        There aren’t enough houses because the scum sucking capitalists like the super-profits that they’re getting from there not being enough houses.

        Put it another way, the only time we had enough houses was when the government built and owned a significant percentage of the ones available and built thousands more every year.

        • Reddelusion 15.1.2.1

          Yes Draco

        • Chuck 15.1.2.2

          “There aren’t enough houses because the scum sucking capitalists like the super-profits that they’re getting from there not being enough houses.”

          Developers land bank…yes. Zoning is what turns a $10m piece of dirt into say $50m piece of dirt (its not all profit as infrastructure, RMA, consultants etc etc).

          Red tape delays and adds to the cost. If a developer can turn a piece of dirt into a subdivision with reduced time and cost (risk) to completion they would.

          Capitalists do know math! 500 x houses @ $100k profit each OR 2000 x houses @ $50k profit each.

          Its telling that both the Nats and Lab are saying they need to short circuit the red tape in order to build more houses…so that pretty much backs up Reddelusion’s point.

          • Draco T Bastard 15.1.2.2.1

            Red tape delays and adds to the cost. If a developer can turn a piece of dirt into a subdivision with reduced time and cost (risk) to completion they would.

            And they do. There’s almost no risk to developers – this government has seen to that.

            Lots of risk on the councils and builders though. The previous National government saw to that with their Leaky Homes fuckup and the new rules that put all the risk of a building going wrong on the builders and not on the developers. The developers, of course, don’t pay the builders enough to cover those added risks.

            Then there’s the way that the costs of a development have been placed upon councils rather than the developers. What happens with that, inevitably, is that rates have to rise to cover those costs which gets people up in arms against the council. They don’t seem to realise that it’s actually central government rules that are pushing up the rates.

            Its telling that both the Nats and Lab are saying they need to short circuit the red tape in order to build more houses…so that pretty much backs up Reddelusion’s point.

            No it doesn’t. It means that Labour stupidly believe National’s lies.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 15.1.2.2.2

            short circuit the red tape

            Labour proposes to build houses. Where did they propose circumventing the law to do so?

            • Chuck 15.1.2.2.2.1

              “Labour says Auckland Council is deluded, after it said its metropolitan urban limit wasn’t holding up development of new housing.

              “I think [Auckland Council is] utterly out of touch,” says Labour’s Phil Twyford.

              “If they think that the current status quo is working they are absolutely deluded.”

              A rare alliance between Labour and National saw the council backed into a corner, but today the council came out fighting.”

              http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/auckland-councils-housing-plan-deluded—labour-2016052019

              “First, we will publish a National Policy Statement under the Resource Management Act that will for example, direct Auckland Council to free up the rules on intensification in its Unitary Plan, because it is a matter of national importance.” From Phil Twyford via Labour website.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                So they’ll use existing provisions in legislation, not “cut through red tape”.

                I note that Auckland’s new housing plan was derailed by the NIMBYs of Remuera. No wonder you’re pretending it’s all Labour’s fault.

    • Chuck 15.2

      “Individualism and the free market split society because of greed”

      Jono “greed” is universal…no matter what society / system one has. An extreme example would be North Korea, everyone is equal…unless you happen to be a Government official…greed.

      Greed is not responsible for the housing situation, supply is the elephant in the room.

      • Draco T Bastard 15.2.1

        Jono “greed” is universal…no matter what society / system one has.

        No its not. Examples:
        Australian aborigines
        Native Americans
        Some tribes in Africa

        Greed is not responsible for the housing situation,

        Yes it is through both foreign and local investment for untaxed capital gains.

        • Chuck 15.2.1.1

          Ok… you have point with “hunter-gatherer” type societies Draco!

          Although a tribal member having more than their fair share of a meal…it is still being greedy.

          However greed is not responsible for the housing situation.

          Its the impact of the Auckland Councils urban limit boundaries.

          Its regulatory constraints imposed by artificial urban limit boundaries that has had a catastrophic effect on house and land prices.

          • Draco T Bastard 15.2.1.1.1

            Although a tribal member having more than their fair share of a meal…it is still being greedy.

            Yes it is and the tribe would stop it from happening. But you RWNJs would be claiming that you’re allowed as much as you like even though others would be going hungry – just like what we’re seeing now.

            However greed is not responsible for the housing situation.

            Yes it is.

            Its the impact of the Auckland Councils urban limit boundaries.

            No it’s not. There’s enough land available for at least years expansion. Of course, we shouldn’t be expanding any further as sprawl costs so fucken much more than building up and/or developing the regions.

            Its regulatory constraints imposed by artificial urban limit boundaries that has had a catastrophic effect on house and land prices.

            And that is another outright lie. If buildings can be built then regulations aren’t getting in the way.

            • Chuck 15.2.1.1.1.1

              “Yes it is and the tribe would stop it from happening. But you RWNJs would be claiming that you’re allowed as much as you like even though others would be going hungry – just like what we’re seeing now.”

              LOL…I know a few left-wingers that take more than their fair share from the smorgasbord table.

              In regards to housing you are confusing yourself.

              I agree there is no shortage of land itself, with thousands of acres beyond the urban limits sitting idle. But the regulatory constraints by urban limit boundaries mean this land cannot be developed to provide the required supply.

              Auckland City Council have used cost benefit analysis to justify these urban limits, saying the increased infrastructure beyond a certain point out from the CBD does not provide economic justification to allow urban sprawl.

              But the council have not included in their cost benefit analysis the cost of housing. In other words ACC has not factored into their theory any shift in prices (land & house).

              Thus the ACC modelling is flawed and one of the core reasons for the housing problems we now face.

              • Draco T Bastard

                LOL…I know a few left-wingers that take more than their fair share from the smorgasbord table.

                We’re not talking smorgasbord but actual, real economics where rules are applied.

                I agree there is no shortage of land itself, with thousands of acres beyond the urban limits sitting idle.

                You’ll find very little of the land outside of the Auckland boundary sitting idle as it’s all farmland. Or are you implying that farmers are idlers?

                But the regulatory constraints by urban limit boundaries mean this land cannot be developed to provide the required supply.

                No, what it means is that it can’t be land banked for massive, unearned capital gains.

                Auckland City Council have used cost benefit analysis to justify these urban limits, saying the increased infrastructure beyond a certain point out from the CBD does not provide economic justification to allow urban sprawl.

                Seems reasonable.

                But the council have not included in their cost benefit analysis the cost of housing. In other words ACC has not factored into their theory any shift in prices (land & house).

                And what you RWNJs fail to take into account is the cost of living so far away. Another part of the cost/benefit analysis.

                Thus the ACC modelling is flawed and one of the core reasons for the housing problems we now face.

                No, the flawed analysis is all done by the RWNJs in support of greedy arseholes.

  16. Incoming conservative leaders always give a spiel about governing for everybody, not just the rich, often with some bullshit term like “compassionate conservatism” to go with it. For what you can actually expect from them, look at their past history, not their present blather. May’s isn’t promising.

  17. adam 17

    Love the headline Ad.

    I think you may be right, Corbyn has even shifted the Tories to actually sound human.

    And no did not think it was Corbyn, having read a couple of Corbyn’s speeches it was not his voice.

    I actually thought it was the lib-dem leader Tim Farron, as I have heard very little from him.

  18. whateva next? 18

    “John Key should take notes: be truthful, be blunt, and believe.”
    WHAT? he is incapable of all three

  19. Gabby 19

    Ponyboy being out of town seems to work a treat. Maybe he should move his office to Hawaii.

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