Is National thinking of a conservative puppet party?

Written By: - Date published: 9:12 am, May 17th, 2019 - 251 comments
Categories: democracy under attack, journalism, national, newspapers, Politics, same old national, Simon Bridges - Tags:

Looks like National has conceded that the nascent Blue Green party is a no goer.

The Herald has reported that National is considering allowing Alfred Ngaro to form another break away party this time with a definite christian conservative bent and also to take over the Botany electorate.

From Barry Soper at the Herald:

The coalition lifeline that National will need if it’s to have a chance at the next election looks set to come in the form of a Christian party led by one of its own, former Cabinet Minister Alfred Ngaro.

Talk within the party’s been rife for weeks now with Ngaro’s plan being well received and with the possibility of National standing aside, possibly in the Botany seat, where it has the strongest party vote by far.

The seat’s currently held by rebel independent MP Jami-Lee Ross who himself can’t take credit for the party vote. It was entrenched when the electorate came on to the political map in 2008 when it was won by Pansy Wong who, like the ignominious departure of Ross, also left in a blaze of publicity in 2011 over the misuse of Parliamentary travel expenses.

There’s a lot of Christian money in the electorate. It has a good number of Pacific Island churches in Otara to the west, a sizeable, conservative, Christian South African community and a significant number of Koreans and Taiwanese Christians.

There is also a strong Catholic presence with schools like Our Lady Star of the Sea School and Sancta Maria College.

Family First’s Bob McCoskrie was mentioned.  

If this does occur it will show how National is prepared to engage in extremely cynically manipulative game playing of our democratic system for political gain.

Hopefully the electorate will see through it.

251 comments on “Is National thinking of a conservative puppet party? ”

  1. outofbed 1

    So National want support from imaginary friends. From a party based on the belief in an imaginary friend .

    For Christ sake

    • Siobhan 1.1

      Indeed..For Christ's Sake. Amen.

      But possibly no more deluded than a dedicated belief in the imaginary benefits to the average voter of the Free Market, Austerity, and Trickle Down Incremental change.

    • Mich 1.2

      Just like the Muslims imaginary friend

    • Cinny 1.3

      So National want support from imaginary friends. From a party based on the belief in an imaginary friend

      Best comment ever !

  2. Robert Guyton 2

    "Is National thinking?"

    Fify.

  3. SPC 3

    Maybe its time Labour gave a couple of electorate MP's jobs as leaders of the New Labour and Workers Party.

    • Adrian Thornton 3.1

      Yeah, now that is a great idea, I could easily see the ;Labour and Workers Party.' out performing the Labour Party after just a couple of election cycles…I'm in, where do I sign up?

  4. Gosman 4

    I personally think there should be room for a conservative political party in Parliament as there is a section of society that is not well represented currently. I also think the Parliament is the poorer for not having a party like Mana in it for that reason. The Greens were meant to represent the people that Mana champions for but that has been shown to be a bit of a hollow joke.

    • AB 4.1

      "there should be room for a conservative political party in Parliament"

      There will be room, if a credible conservative party emerges that can get 5% of the vote consistently. That's the democratic process. Manufacturing such 'room' by Epsomising the Botany electorate would be a corrupt and anti-democratic way of achieving the same end.

      • Gosman 4.1.1

        The 5% threshold is an artificial barrier created to solve a problem that existed for another country. It has little relavance to the NZ context. Regardless the one seat rule is ALSO part of the democratic model and is as legitimate as the 5% threshold.

        • AB 4.1.1.1

          Yes – the 5% threshold could be lowered or raised and that lowering or raising in themselves would be consistent with the principles of MMP. No problem with that.

          Not sure what you mean by the "one seat rule". Is there such a rule? It seems an odd way of describing the creation and maintenance of a client party, that is not in any meaningful sense independent of the large party that created it, but boosts the voting power of the large party by 1, and thus distorts proportionality. There is no 'rule' that allows this – rather there is (sadly) no rule that prevents it.

          • AB 4.1.1.1.1

            I now see that by "one seat rule" you mean the rule that one electorate seat over-rides the need to reach the threshold. More commonly referred to as 'coat tailing'. This rule is part of the system but it definitely needs changing as it encourages the creation of non-independent client parties.

            • Gosman 4.1.1.1.1.1

              In your opinion…

              • Shadrach

                …which no doubt changes based on the gerrymandered result AB desires.

              • woodart

                no, its fact. when you have goldsmith filmed, pulling down his OWN political hoardings, that is gerrymandering, manipulating the system …CHEATING . not opinion. fact. make that FACT!!! morals, hah, right wingers have EVERYTHING for sale, truth, morals, principles, parliamentry seats, citizenship, workers rights, etc etc. the late great robin williams had a brilliant idea. all politicians to have there backers, sponsors, owners ,etc, to be emblazened on the suits like racing drivers….. come in mr pennzoil, aka, simon bridges, come down mrs won tan, sth chinese bank, welcome mr grumman northrop, mark mitchell, lets meet miss henderson auto wreckers, paula bennett.

        • lprent 4.1.1.2

          Yep win a seat and that is all you get.

          Win the threshold.and the party vote rules apply.

          Noone has managed to convince me that the seat conferring a nation wide acceptance of a political part is anything apart from rort designed to do what National uses it for – to try to create subservient "parties" as coalition partners with less than 2% country wide vote.

      • Incognito 4.1.2

        That sounds pretty nasty and disgusting, “Epsomising”. Surely, that’s something that only consenting adults would do, right?

  5. AB 5

    "Hopefully the electorate will see through it"

    Maybe, though I wouldn't bet on it. But even if the electorate does see through it, and the 5% threshold is not reached, National will still have 'Epsomised' Botany. This means they effectively get themselves one extra MP over and above what their Party Vote percentage actually entitles them to. There's nothing in theory to stop them from doing the same with their safest 5-10 electorate seats. If they do Epsomise Botany, then I think it has to be regarded as a systematic and deliberate attack on the integrity of the electoral system, and calls for a response to shut such activity down.

    • observer 5.1

      Nothing in theory to stop them, but in practice … electoral stupidity.

      All of the single electorate deals had different origins, and were defensible (Anderton had fought against Labour, Dunne suported Clark for 2 terms, even Hide had to win Epsom against Worth who wanted to hold it). None were brazen creations from the start, whatever they became later.

      • Gosman 5.1.1

        Why is the 5% threshold legitimate but not the electorate seat rule?

        • alwyn 5.1.1.1

          It ceased to be legitimate when Jim Anderton finally gave up the ghost. Until then it was a wonderful thing because old Jim was on the side of the left. It gave Clark 2 extra seats in 2002 and 1 in 2005.

          • Gosman 5.1.1.1.1

            Yes, I seem to remember that the possibility of winning Coromandal or Auckland Central allowing a smaller party to get greater representation was touted by many on the left as a great thing for democracy.

            • observer 5.1.1.1.1.1

              Allowing an existing party … yes. Creating a fake party … no.

              The difference is obvious. All previous examples (ACT, Alliance/Prog, Greens, NZF, United) were independent parties. All of then fought against Lab/Nat at various times, even bitterly.

              • Gosman

                Who are you to claim this is a "Fake" party? This would be entirely independent of National and would likely be pursuing policies that National would not agree with (such as a more conservative approach to social issues). Given the fact that the current Conservative or New Conservative parties are not currently doing the job of attracting people who like these policies then I see no problem if one is spun off from National. It is practically no different to the Greens coming out of the Alliance.

                • observer

                  The Greens existed before the Alliance, which was a 5-party vehicle to overcome FPP. Once MMP was achieved the Greens could campaign (successfully) as an independent party.

                  The Ngaro party will be fake if it is created with one purpose – to get National into government. And if National stand no candidate in their safe Botany seat. That's as blatant as it gets.

                  To be clear, I have no issue with the tactic from a legal standpoint. It is the voters who will decide what they think of it.

                  • gsays

                    " It is the voters who will decide what they think of it. "

                    That's the rub observer, I think the voters will be chuffed to have a leader of a political party as their MP.

                    Perhaps as SPC says it's time for Labour to do a similar thing.

                • woodart

                  "entirely independent of national" yeah riiight. nat m.p. go's to bed one night, wakes up a poodle,sorry "conservative with different(eye roll) policies". hey gosman, Ive got some cheap beachfront land to sell you, viewing at low tide…..

              • alwyn

                All the parties you name, with the exception of the original Greens were off-shoots on either National, Labour or both.

                None of them had any existence which was independent of a leader who had been in one of the main parties. Even the Green can be considered as an off-shoot of the Alliance. And they did not, as you claim just below here, break from the Alliance as soon as MMP was achieved. They fought the first MMP election as part of the Alliance and only split away the following year.

                • McFlock

                  Even the Green can be considered as an off-shoot of the Alliance.

                  Nope. Greens joined the Alliance (because it was an alliance of parties). Greens left the Alliance. The only "offshoot" was the jim anderton party, which was a patsy for Labour as ACT is now.

                  • alwyn

                    The Greens stayed with the Alliance until they had a few MPs in Parliament. Then they chose to leave the Organisation that got them there. I think they were well aware that if they had stood alone in 1996 they wouldn't have got any MPs at all.

                    It is very hard for a Party without a sitting MP to campaign in New Zealand. They would need an enormous amount of money, like Morgan had, as they have to pay for all their own travel and accommodation while doing so. If they have a seat in Parliament they are entitled to unlimited domestic travel and accommodation paid by the taxpayer. That is why the Greens wanted Nandor to step down when Shaw was elected leader. If Shaw wasn't in Parliament the party would have to have paid for all his costs themselves. It really wasn't because he could speak in Parliament you know.

                    • McFlock

                      NZ1 managed it, without the cash.

                      Yes, it's difficult. But the trick seems to be more about actual work and engaging with the people's mood, rather than being down to cash. The Greens have always had a damned good ground team around the country, and you can't buy that.

          • bwaghorn 5.1.1.1.2

            Did labour actively try to get its voters to vote for anderton .

            • alwyn 5.1.1.1.2.1

              Any opposition, at least after Clark became the Labour leader was of a purely token nature. Don't you remember her talking so kindly about Uncle Jim?

              Just like National vs ACT in fact.

          • lprent 5.1.1.1.3

            Would it have made a difference?

          • Jenny - How to get there? 5.1.1.1.4

            alwyn5.1.1.1

            17 May 2019 at 11:18 am

            It ceased to be legitimate when Jim Anderton finally gave up the ghost. Until then it was a wonderful thing because old Jim was on the side of the left….

            War is a right wing cause, not a left wing cause.

            By this measure, in the final analysis, Jim Anderton could hardly be considered left.

            Where the Beatles sang 'Give peace a chance'.

            'Give war a chance' was was Jim's lyric of choice

            So keen was Jim Anderton in supporting sending New Zealander troops to Afghanistan, that he was willing to destroy his own party.

            Without Jim Anderson's support for war, New Zealanders would never have carried out Operation Burn 'em.

            Without Jim Anderson's support for war, 10 New Zealanders wouldn't have lost their lives for no useful purpose.

            • Shadrach 5.1.1.1.4.1

              "War is a right wing cause, not a left wing cause."

              You can't be serious. Have you never heard of the August Uprising (1924), the Tatarbunary Uprising (1924), the Sino-Soviet Conflict (1929), or any of the other 25 wars involving the Soviet Union alone? War is not a left or right wing 'cause'; it is a function of far more complex human dynamics.

        • AB 5.1.1.2

          Se 4.1.1.1

      • AB 5.1.2

        "None were brazen creations from the start"

        Quite. If we see this sort of low-level gaming of the system, the time may come where some sort of "independence test" is needed for these one seat wonders. If they are deemed not to be independent, then they are included in the proportional seat allocation of the party that created them. Ideally it won't come to that because it would be ugly.

        • Andre 5.1.2.1

          I would kinda prefer the holders of overhang seats to be ineligible to participate in confidence and supply votes. Someone may be very effective as an MP representing their electorate issues, yet have negligible support for their general positioning and views on issues affecting the country as a whole (eg the hairdo from Ohariu).

          If gifting a seat to someone like the Epsom hologram or the hairdo would only result in an extra vote in parliament towards forming the government if enough nationwide support was siphoned off to the sockpuppet's party, then it would really reduce the incentive for that kind of rorting.

      • Shadrach 5.1.3

        "None were brazen creations from the start, whatever they became later."

        Jim Anderton's Progressive Party qualifies.

        In 2002 it received 1.7% of the votes, and had 2 seats. In 2005 it received 1.16%, and 1 seat. In 2008 it received only 0.91% of the votes, and yet still retained 1 seat.

        If the left want to have a moan about the way the right are using MMP, they should first have a good look in their own backyard.

        • observer 5.1.3.1

          Yeah, Jim Anderton was parachuted in, nobody had ever heard of him in Christchurch, he hadn't served them for decades, just like Ngaro in Botany … [/sarc]

          Parties formed by angry splits in another party are the polar opposite of parties formed only to serve another party. But you know this, of course.

          As I said, if National think this will work, they are welcome to try it. But they will have to own it – with all the baggage. And that's where it will hurt.

          • Shadrach 5.1.3.1.1

            Your first paragraph seeks to define 'brazen creation', then explain why Jim Anderton's Progressives didn't fit your own definition. I'll call you on that.

            JA'sP was a vehicle for Jim Anderton's own political ambitions, after he fell out with the Alliance. To some degree he rorted the Waka Jumping Law he had championed. After resigning from the Alliance, he refused to resign from Parliament, coat-tailing on the Alliance by remaining in their parliamentary wing, even though he had left the Alliance Party itself. After the 2002 election, JS'sP became Labours new junior coalition party.

            As I said, the left need to look in their own backyard.

            • woodart 5.1.3.1.1.1

              the nats are only in parliament because they coat-tailed in on the country party vote way back in the thirties, but hey, who's looking backward eh, shaddie?

              • Shadrach

                Just like the Labour Party who coat tailed on various socialist parties. But I'm not 'looing back' as such, just calling hypocrisy on the left.

                • McFlock

                  Oh, "the left" made their feelings about Anderton rubber-stamping Labour's war deployment pretty clear.

                  But much as he might have lost a lot of goodwill around the country, he never had to have a cup of tea with Helen to keep his local support in Wigram. The reason Labour candidates never did any good there was because of his personal support in his electorate, not because Labour candidates tore down placards supporting their own candidacy.

                  • Shadrach

                    The left on this blog are criticising the Nats for possibly doing something the left have themselves done in the past. I'm just reminding them. BTW you nicely sidestepped what I actually criticised Anderton for, which was rorting a law he helped enact.

                    • McFlock

                      "The left" is more than just Jim Anderton. He was confused about that, too.

                    • Shadrach

                      The 'left' I was referring to were those on this blog criticising National for doing something some on their own side of politics have also done. Jim Anderton is no more 'the left' than Alfred Ngaro is 'the right'.

                    • McFlock

                      Your allegation of hypocrisy is based on the assumption that those same people didn't rip shit out of Anderton at the time, in other media (because TS didn't exist then).

                      So just more shadders BS, I guess.

                    • Shadrach

                      "Your allegation of hypocrisy is based on the assumption that those same people didn't rip shit out of Anderton at the time…"

                      Not at all. It is based on the abject failure of many on the left to even pretend to be objective.

                    • McFlock

                      Lol

                      So now the allegation of hypocrisy is an extrapolation based on your perception that "many on the left" should try to be "objective".

                      Whereas "many on the left" did indeed, as you put it, "look in their own backyard" when Anderton rubberstamped an invasion (contrary to party policy) and so on. There was a bit of a brew-ha-ha about it at the time. Very few on the left (even without a re-evaluation of his remaining supporters' status as "left") continued to support him, many spoke out against him. This was documented with glee by the media at the time.

                      Just another futile attempt by you to pretend that "the left" are as hypocritical and corrupt as National.

                    • Shadrach

                      "So now the allegation of hypocrisy is an extrapolation based on your perception that "many on the left" should try to be "objective"."

                      Not an extrapolation. People on the left are frequently hypocritical, because they accuse others of doing what they themselves do or support. It’s similar to the type of stupidity we witness when someone from the left tries to deplatform speech they disagree with in the name of ‘tolerance’.

                      BTW you are (I think deliberately) avoiding addressing what I actually criticised Anderton for. It wasn't about any 'invasion' as such, it was about his hanging around drawing a parliamentary salary on the pretence of being part of the parliamentary wing of a party he had left to set up an alternative, rather than having the courage to actually resign and face a byelection. He rorted legislation he had previously supported – that was my point.

                    • McFlock

                      You made a specific allegation that "many on the left" are being hypocritical regarding coat-tailing because Jim Anderton did it.

                      If you're criticising Anderton only for that, you're well behind the 8-ball. That was just a nice little bit of shit-cherry on the shit-icing of the shit-cake Anderton baked when he decided that the parliamentary caucus leadership overruled the membership, the policies, and the constitution of the Alliance party. And "many on the left" were profoundly fucked off about the entire thing, shit-cherry included.

                      You made shit up.

                    • Shadrach

                      "You made a specific allegation that "many on the left" are being hypocritical regarding coat-tailing because Jim Anderton did it."

                      No, I gave Jim Anderton as one example. You allege some on the left didn't like what Anderton did. So what? He still did it. And he was from the left.

                    • McFlock

                      The left on this blog are criticising the Nats for possibly doing something the left have themselves done in the past.

                      To be hypocrites based on your example, the left on this blog would have to consist of Jim Anderton. I hesitate to speculate on the identities of individual commenters, but I'm reasonably sure that the left wing commenters on this site aren't all Jim's sock puppets. I know for a fact that some of them spoke out against him, loudly and repeatedly.

                      So, yeah, nah, try to sow your cynicism another way.

                    • Shadrach

                      "To be hypocrites based on your example, the left on this blog would have to consist of Jim Anderton."

                      No, Jim Anderton would just have to be part of 'the left'.

                    • McFlock

                      …on this blog.

                      He is not demonstrably on this blog.
                      Therefore “the left on this blog” are not hypocrites just because he is.

                    • Shadrach

                      "…on this blog."

                      No, at all. Anywhere.

                    • McFlock

                      So the left on this blog are hypocrites because someone on the left was once a hypocrite, even if they are not on this blog.

                      Get real.

                    • Shadrach

                      "So the left on this blog are hypocrites because someone on the left was once a hypocrite, even if they are not on this blog."

                      No. The commentators on this blog from the left, who criticise the right for doing exactly what the left do, are hypocrites.

                      To quote from my original comment:

                      “If the left want to have a moan about the way the right are using MMP, they should first have a good look in their own backyard.”

                    • McFlock

                      The commentators on this blog from the left, who criticise the right for doing exactly what the left do, are hypocrites.

                      Not if they also criticised "the left" when "the left" did it.

                    • Shadrach

                      "Not if they also criticised "the left" when "the left" did it."

                      In this case, you'll have to do a lot of digging.

                    • McFlock

                      You're the one calling left wing commenters here "hypocrites". You do the digging to back it up.

                    • Shadrach

                      "You're the one calling left wing commenters here "hypocrites". You do the digging to back it up."

                      The 'digging' was in reference to YOUR claim "Not if they also criticised "the left" when "the left" did it." Trying to get me to support your own claims now eh? That's a new one even for you.

                    • McFlock

                      So unless I prove to you that commenters on this blog opposed to nact coattailing also opposed Anderton's actions, you will call them hypocrites?

                      Sounds legit.

                    • Shadrach

                      "So unless I prove to you that commenters on this blog opposed to nact coattailing also opposed Anderton's actions, you will call them hypocrites?"

                      You're the one who introduced the idea that if commentators here opposed Anderton's actions then those same commentators are somehow immune from criticism. That's up to you to substantiate. Don't come crying to me if you can't.

                    • McFlock

                      You specifically called commenters here hypocrites. If that criticism is warranted, please provide your evidence that all left-wing commenters on this site criticised nact coat-tailing but not Anderton's little efforts.

                      Start with me, I'm sort of left wing.

                      Otherwise you're just making shit up. Again.

                    • Shadrach

                      "You specifically called commenters here hypocrites. If that criticism is warranted, please provide your evidence that all left-wing commenters on this site criticised nact coat-tailing but not Anderton's little efforts."

                      That was YOUR criteria, so YOU back it up. Don't make a claim and then expect me to help you out. Start (or should I say 'keep') digging.

                    • McFlock

                      Just like the Labour Party who coat tailed on various socialist parties. But I'm not 'looing back' as such, just calling hypocrisy on the left.

                      You called it hypocrisy.

                      The 'left' I was referring to were those on this blog criticising National for doing something some on their own side of politics have also done.

                      You said the people who were being hypocritical were those on thos blog commenting about the nats but not Anderton.

                      Name these hypocrites. It would be good to reveal them to us. Demonstrate their hypocrisy.

                      But you're just making shit up.

                    • Shadrach

                      "You said the people who were being hypocritical were those on thos blog commenting about the nats but not Anderton."

                      No, I didn't. My first comment referred to people looking in their back yard. I said it is hypocritical to call out the right when the left engage in the same behaviour. Anderton being one example.

                      "Name these hypocrites."

                      Left wing posters here who have called out the right for something left wing politicians have also done.

                      You see it was YOU who introduced the criteria about whether those same commentators also criticised the left. And then you asked me to help you out! You really are a muppet.

                    • McFlock

                      I said it is hypocritical to call out the right when the left engage in the same behaviour.

                      I'm not sure you know what "hypocritical" means.

                      If Anderton said the nats were shit for coat-tailing in MPs, then he'd be a hypocrite.

                      If a commenter here said the nats were shit for coat-tailing in MPs but said Anderton was ok to do it, then that would merely be inconsistent, but at least it's close to hypocrisy.

                      But if a commenter here said the nats were shit for coat-tailing in MPs and had also said Anderton was shit for doing it, that would be neither inconsistent not hypocritical.

                      So name these hypocritical commenters. Don't describe the, list them. Or are you making shit up?

                    • Shadrach

                      "If a commenter here said the nats were shit for coat-tailing in MPs but said Anderton was ok to do it, then that would merely be inconsistent, but at least it's close to hypocrisy."

                      1. A reminder – YOU have set the criteria around commentators here having also criticised Anderton. Not me.

                      2. Anderton was just one example.

                      3. Hypocrisy has many meanings. Calling out the right for something the left also does fits the bill.

                    • McFlock

                      Oh, we're at the stage where you pretend to not be able to read what you wrote upthread but still remain literate enough to parse different definitions of the same word, are we?

                      Good-oh. Have fun with that.

                    • Shadrach

                      "Oh, we're at the stage where you pretend to not be able to read what you wrote upthread but still remain literate enough to parse different definitions of the same word, are we?"

                      1. I have stood by that post all along. BTW – That post didn't even mention the word 'hypocrisy'.

                      2. A reminder – YOU have set the criteria around commentators here having also criticised Anderton. Not me. It's up to you to support your own claim. When you can't, don't moan to me.

                    • McFlock

                      lol

                      You brought up Anderton.

                      You agreed that you were talking about hypocrisy.

                      You later said "The commentators on this blog from the left, who criticise the right for doing exactly what the left do, are hypocrites."

                      So exactly who are "the commentators on this blog from the left, who criticise the right for doing exactly what the left do", and how are they hypocrites?

                    • Shadrach

                      “You brought up Anderton.”

                      As an example. Yes.

                      “So exactly who are "the commentators on this blog from the left, who criticise the right for doing exactly what the left do", and how are they hypocrites?”

                      In this thread alone here are some examples. But do your own work, McFlock.

                    • McFlock

                      lol you claim there are examples, yet refuse to link to them.

                    • Shadrach

                      Read the thread. I assume you have the intelligence to refer to the earlier posts I responded to? And no, I'm not doing your work for you.

                    • McFlock

                      It's not my job to find what you think are examples of what you think is hypocrisy.

                    • Shadrach

                      "It's not my job to find what you think are examples of what you think is hypocrisy."

                      It is your job to have read a thread you decide to start commenting on. Do your homework.

                    • McFlock

                      So, no examples then.

                    • Shadrach

                      At least 3. But you'll have to find them for yourself.

                    • McFlock

                      Hide & seek now?

                      The Stuff quiz is more interesting than your inventions.

                    • Shadrach

                      Hardly hidden. They are in this thread!

                    • McFlock

                      So you assert.

                    • Shadrach

                      So you could discover if you bothered to.

                    • McFlock

                      And so the circle is complete.

                      I'll leave you to your evidence-free assertions.

                    • McFlock

                      Why are you linking to that comment?

                    • Shadrach

                      Well the fact that you need to ask sums up your contribution.

                      Here, I’ll take you back even further.
                      https://thestandard.org.nz/is-national-thinking-of-a-conservative-puppet-party/#comment-1617886

                      If we keep going…

                    • McFlock

                      Ah. Just more timewasting on your part. I thought you might have considered your own comment an example of hypocrisy.

                    • Shadrach

                      "Just more timewasting on your part. "

                      I'm generously pointing you in the right direction, on the remote chance you actually want to find the answer.

                    • McFlock

                      Funny. From here it just looks like you called three comments in the thread examples of left wing hypocrisy, without any intention of backing up your evidence-free assertion.

                    • Shadrach

                      "Funny. From here it just looks like you called three comments in the thread examples of left wing hypocrisy, without any intention of backing up your evidence-free assertion."

                      Funny. From here it looks like you stumbled your way through a range of posts trying to get me to justify something you said, and finally came around to discussing what I actually did say.

                      Follow the links. They will take you to at least one example. That's as far as I'm prepared to go to indulge your laziness.

                    • McFlock

                      Follow the links. They will take you to at least one example.

                      I'm not reading the entire post and thread again. It wasn't there the first time, and I don't believe you anyway.

                    • Shadrach

                      "I'm not reading the entire post and thread again. It wasn't there the first time, and I don't believe you anyway"

                      You haven't read it at all! I even gave you the biggest hint possible in my links. You've got a great sidestep.

                    • McFlock

                      Keep pretending that you have provided a hint as to what you think might have constituted what you believe hypocrisy to be.

                      Someone might believe that you're hiding your light under a bushel. I don't. I think that if you had anything, you'd be crowing it far and wide.

                    • Shadrach

                      "Someone might believe that you're hiding your light under a bushel. I don't. "

                      Yes, you do. You aren't that stupid that you can't read back through the thread, particularly when I gave you links to my posts addressing at least one of the examples.

                    • McFlock

                      Now you're telling me what I believe?

                      You're going to so much effort to avoid simply proving your point.

                    • Shadrach

                      "You're going to so much effort to avoid simply proving your point."

                      A fair few comments were trying to explain to you it was YOUR point.

                      I made my point clear to anyone who had read the thread from it's beginning.

                    • McFlock

                      So to recap: even though you think it was my point, you still hinted at comments in this thread you believe demonstrated it, but refuse to actually show which comments demonstrate it and say how they demonstrate it.

                      Good for you.

                    • Shadrach

                      "So to recap: even though you think it was my point…"

                      Your point was to try (more than once) to impose your own interpretation of hypocrisy.

                      "…you still hinted at comments in this thread you believe demonstrated it…"

                      No, I actually linked to my comments that directly responded to one such comment. There are at least 2 others. You're just too lazy to do your own homework.

                    • McFlock

                      my comments that directly responded to one such comment.

                      Traditionally, a direct response to a comment involves actually addressing the points raised in the comment being responded to.

                      All your comment to observer demonstrated was that you have no idea what "coat-tail" means in the contect of MMP.

                      How does observer's comment constitute hypocrisy?

                    • Shadrach

                      You're still being lazy. The comments by Observer include https://thestandard.org.nz/is-national-thinking-of-a-conservative-puppet-party/#comment-1617758 and https://thestandard.org.nz/is-national-thinking-of-a-conservative-puppet-party/#comment-1617793.

                      Gosman called him out on it. The background to the creation of the Progressives, and the 2005 incarnation – "Jim Anderton's Progressive Party", was a creation so "brazen" and "fake" that it even had to adopted JA's name to extend it's life. Thankfully it ceased to exist.

                    • McFlock

                      lol so the first comment you linked to as an example of the hypocrisy of some commenters here was actually to your "response" to a comment that wasn't actually an example of hypocrisy?

                      As for the comments that Gosman replied to, none of those replies were about hypocrisy, merely debating the descriptions and distinctions.

                      So how were any of those comments by Observer an example of hypocrisy?

                    • Shadrach

                      "lol so the first comment you linked to as an example of the hypocrisy of some commenters here was actually to your "response" to a comment that wasn't actually an example of hypocrisy?"

                      No, the commentS I linked to helped you be a little less lazy and actually took you back to some of the specific comments I was referring to. You got there in the end.

                      And just in case you need any further explanation, criticising the actions of a political side you oppose, when those same actions have been undertaken by a political side you support, is hypocritical.

                    • McFlock

                      Well, not quite, but that's not Observer did anyway. Observer simply pointed out differences between the nacts practises and what Anderton, Dunne and even Hide did. Or as Observer put it:

                      Parties formed by angry splits in another party are the polar opposite of parties formed only to serve another party

                      Seems to be a clear point of difference. No wonder you tried to keep your light under a bushel – it was a pretty damp squib.

                    • Shadrach

                      “Observer simply pointed out differences between the nacts practises and what Anderton, Dunne and even Hide did.”

                      No, he went well beyond that.

                      https://thestandard.org.nz/is-national-thinking-of-a-conservative-puppet-party/#comment-1617758

                      “All of the single electorate deals had different origins, and were defensible”

                      Those ‘deals’ involving JAPP were no more ‘defensible’ than would be a party set up to espouse Christian principles.

                      “None were brazen creations from the start”

                      Again, hypocrisy. The Progressive Party was a ‘brazen creation, that even had to take on JA’s name to temporarily suspend it’s eventual and inevitable demise.

                      https://thestandard.org.nz/is-national-thinking-of-a-conservative-puppet-party/#comment-1617793

                      “Creating a fake party … no.”

                      Gosman addressed that, but Observer was very quiet about JA’s own ‘fake’ party.

                      “The difference is obvious. All previous examples (ACT, Alliance/Prog, Greens, NZF, United) were independent parties. All of then fought against Lab/Nat at various times even bitterly"

                      Rubbish. JA’sP fought against the Alliance, not against Labour.

                      You see, if you had actually read the thread with some comprehension, you would have saved me some time.

                    • McFlock

                      love how you fucked up the link to make the full comment more difficult to find.

                      All of the single electorate deals had different origins, and were defensible (Anderton had fought against Labour, Dunne suported Clark for 2 terms, even Hide had to win Epsom against Worth who wanted to hold it). None were brazen creations from the start, whatever they became later.

                      So it's not criticising the Right for the sake of criticising the Right, because if Observer defends Anderton then they also defend Hide.

                      As opposed to criticising a list nobody with no local support being gifted an electorate.

                      That's the difference: Anderton fought off Labour's Mora, Hide fought off Worth, Dunne fought off whomever. They earned the right to sit at a negotiating table and say "You can keep fighting me on my home turf, but then I might not want to be friends."

                      What's a Ngaro party going to say to get the same deal? "Please sir, give me an electorate and I'll do my very bestest with it, I promise".

                    • Shadrach

                      “love how you fucked up the link to make the full comment more difficult to find.”

                      I didn’t. You really are lazy.

                      “So it's not criticising the Right for the sake of criticising the Right”

                      I didn’t say it was. I said the left need to look in their own back yard.

                      “As opposed to criticising a list nobody with no local support being gifted an electorate.”

                      Which is what Labour did for Anderton.

                      “That's the difference: Anderton fought off Labour's Mora”

                      Ah, Labour people actively lobbied for voters to support Anderton as their local MP.

                      “They earned the right to sit at a negotiating table and say "You can keep fighting me on my home turf, but then I might not want to be friends."”

                      Anderton ‘earned’ the right by doing exactly what Ngaro may do. Support the party that nods his way.

                    • McFlock

                      “As opposed to criticising a list nobody with no local support being gifted an electorate.”

                      Which is what Labour did for Anderton.

                      Lol.

                      Keep telling yourself that. If Labour were trying to lose Wigram in 2002, Mora wouldn't have increased his vote by 2000. Cups of tea and all that.

                      The left know more about their backyard than you think you do.

                    • Shadrach

                      "If Labour were trying to lose Wigram in 2002, Mora wouldn't have increased his vote by 2000. "

                      2002? After splitting from Labour, Anderton stood in 7 elections representing 3 different parties, 4 if you include the rebranding of the progressives. In 2005 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigram_(New_Zealand_electorate)#2005_election), Mora got 6408 votes to Anderton's 15,961, yet Labour received 16,271 of the Party votes, the Progressives only 2,191. I know exactly what goes on the left's back yard, and it smells just as much as does the right's.

                    • McFlock

                      Don't slide. The issue isn't 2005.

                      The issue is whether a deal struck with someone who is a sitting electorate MP who fought for that position (let alone someone who held that electorate for 20 years, like Anderton did) is the same as creating a new party, assigning a list MP to lead it, and then parachuting that list MP into an electorate and hobbling or pulling your own candidate to give the parachutist a chance of winning (tl,dr: "brazen creation from the start").

                      Observer's position was that those are fundamentally different situations.

                      Whether you agree with Observer or not, in their comments "the left" have thoroughly examined their own back yard.

                      To recap: you pulled back from talking about "hypocrisy", and your position that the left have not looked in their own back yard is demonstrated false.

                      And you don't know what "coat-tailing" means.

                    • Shadrach

                      “The issue isn't 2005.”

                      There is no time bar to hypocrisy. You’re just sore because you got shown up by the 2005 numbers.

                      “The issue is whether a deal struck with someone who is a sitting electorate MP who fought for that position (let alone someone who held that electorate for 20 years, like Anderton did) is the same as creating a new party, assigning a list MP to lead it, and then parachuting that list MP into an electorate and hobbling or pulling your own candidate to give the parachutist a chance of winning (tl,dr: "brazen creation from the start").”

                      JA created a new party (more than one actually!). In one case he actually (rather than resigning) held on to the parliamentary privileges of one party while establishing another! He was then helped by Labour providing a nod and a wink to it’s supporters to give him their electorate vote, without which he would have most likely lost his seat in 2005. You did see the switch in numbers in 2005?

                      “Observer's position was that those are fundamentally different situations.”

                      Well clearly they aren't. Anderton's tenure as an MP only lasted because labour encouraged their voters to vote for him. And of course the quid pro quo was Anderton supported Labour. Sounds remarkably similar.

                      “you pulled back from talking about “hypocrisy”,”
                      Nope. It was hypocrisy.

                      “…and your position that the left have not looked in their own back yard is demonstrated false.”

                      Nope…as per the above. 2005 McFlock. 2005.

                    • McFlock

                      lol

                      It's hypocrisy again, is it? Make up your mind.

                      "whatever they became later. " Now you're ignoring that bit.

                      Yeah, I reckon we're done here.

                    • Shadrach

                      "It's hypocrisy again, is it?"

                      Well yeah, that's what I've been saying.

                      2005 McFlock. 2005.

                    • Shadrach

                      I've repeated my claim of hypocrisy many times. Just not in the one you claimed! Keep trying.

                    • McFlock

                      I've repeated my claim of hypocrisy many times. Just not in the one you claimed!

                      cf:

                      If the left want to have a moan about the way the right are using MMP, they should first have a good look in their own backyard.

                      lol

                      1. I have stood by that post all along. BTW – That post didn't even mention the word 'hypocrisy'.

                    • Shadrach

                      Yes, all consistent with my statement that I have mentioned hypocrisy many times. And I've called out a comment you quoted when I didn't. And I have also said that the left should look in their own back yard. Keep digging.

                    • McFlock

                      All except the last bit, which suggests the middle bit (backyard) wasn't actually a reference to hypocrisy.

                      We all can see you've mentioned hypocrisy many times, when it was convenient. You've also backtracked on it.

                    • Shadrach

                      "All except the last bit, which suggests the middle bit (backyard) wasn't actually a reference to hypocrisy."

                      The last bit just highlighted that a post you referred to didn't actually mention the word ‘hypocrisy’.

                      "We all can see you've mentioned hypocrisy many times, when it was convenient."

                      'Convenient'? I mentioned it many times because I was making the point about hypocrisy.

                      "You've also backtracked on it."

                      Nope, never. I also mentioned that the left should look in their own backyard before criticising the right. My message has been consistent throughout. Yours, however, is looking increasingly desperate. 2005 McFlock. 2005.

                    • McFlock

                      As I said, the left need to look in their own backyard.

                      cf

                      The last bit just highlighted that a post you referred to didn't actually mention the word ‘hypocrisy’.

                      cf

                      I'm not 'looing back' as such, just calling hypocrisy on the left.

                      Make up your mind. Was the comment "the left need to look in their own backyard" an implicit accusation of "hypocrisy" or not?

                    • Shadrach

                      You said I backtracked my claim of hypocrisy. Considering I have repeated that claim several times, I can understand why you are now running.

                      "Was the comment "the left need to look in their own backyard" an implicit accusation of "hypocrisy" or not?"

                      Ah, so you now admit I didn't use the word 'hypocrisy'.

                    • Shadrach

                      But that wasn’t the comment you had previously referred, was it.

                      Your comment https://thestandard.org.nz/is-national-thinking-of-a-conservative-puppet-party/#comment-1618937 linked to this comment https://thestandard.org.nz/is-national-thinking-of-a-conservative-puppet-party/#comment-1618937, which didn’t mention the word hypocrisy.

                      So did you make a mistake, or are you being dishonest?

                    • McFlock

                      Was the backyard reference an allegation of hypocrisy, or not?

                    • Shadrach

                      Did you make a mistake, or are you being dishonest?

                    • McFlock

                      lol smart enough to see you're avoiding a straight answer. Again.

                    • Shadrach

                      Why did you link to the wrong post? Was it a mistake, or a deliberate deception?

                    • McFlock

                      You made two comments about the left looking in their own backyard, then said you were calling out hyupocrisy, then said the word hypocrisy wasn't in the first two comments.

                      So, simple question for you to keep avoiding: Was the backyard reference an allegation of hypocrisy, or not?

                    • Shadrach

                      “You made two comments about the left looking in their own backyard, then said you were calling out hyupocrisy…”

                      Yes. And then your comments here https://thestandard.org.nz/is-national-thinking-of-a-conservative-puppet-party/#comment-1620391 and here https://thestandard.org.nz/is-national-thinking-of-a-conservative-puppet-party/#comment-1620454 suggested that I had 'backtracked. You’re all over the place McFlock.

                      “then said the word hypocrisy wasn't in the first two comments.”

                      Because it wasn’t.

                      You accused me of backtracking https://thestandard.org.nz/is-national-thinking-of-a-conservative-puppet-party/#comment-1620783 on my claim of hypocrisy. You were wrong.

                      You linked to the wrong post. You were wrong. Or dishonest. Which was it?

                      Yep, you're all over the place.

                    • McFlock

                      lol

                      that's a pretty simple question you keep avoiding.

                    • Shadrach

                      It's pretty obvious you either made a mistake or were dishonest. Which is it?

                    • McFlock

                      Whether I'm either of those, or simply correct, depends in no small part on the simple question you refuse to answer.

                      Why would you evade the question if it would show me to be either mistaken or dishonest?

                    • Shadrach

                      It wouldn't show either. And it is irrelevant to the discussion. I repeatedly spoke of the hypocrisy of the left. You wrongly suggested I backtracked.

                    • McFlock

                      And yet you still evade such a harmless question.

                    • Shadrach

                      And yet you won't admit whether or not you just got the link wrong, or were dishonest.

                    • McFlock

                      Looks like I might have been on the ball, the way you dodge such a simple question. I'm cool with that.

                    • Shadrach

                      Are you cool with being dishonest?

                    • McFlock

                      If it happens, I'll let you know.

                • woodart

                  various socialist parties??? go on ,name them…

  6. Phil 6

    There’s a lot of Christian money in the electorate. It has a good number of Pacific Island churches in Otara to the west, a sizeable, conservative, Christian South African community and a significant number of Koreans and Taiwanese Christians.

    There is also a strong Catholic presence…

    This is no different, and just as analytically weak, as saying "We've got a Korean person on the ballot, therefore we will win all the Asian votes."

    This new party is fucked.

    • observer 6.1

      Yes. It's the same patronising punditry we've heard before.

      In 2005, after civil unions, Tamaki's "enough is enough" march, prostitution reform and other "PC liberal" stuff, the pundit wisdom said that South Auckland voters would be turning away from Labour.

      On election night, those same voters saved Helen Clark.

      • WeTheBleeple 6.1.1

        Tamaki held some protest against gay law reform, it was an incredible thing to behold…

        I was walking into the comedy club for a day meeting through the park that hooks K-road to Greys Ave… and lo and behold, there were 12 000 (media reports) very angry (righteous anger they say) large and mostly leather clad folks intimidating the buildings that line the gulley.

        Then, near the base of the park, where Tamaki stood on a podium spouting odious hatred (Family values) half a dozen scrawny vegan looking protesters turned up and faced off this 12 000 strong crowd.

        "We're here, we're queer, we're not going anywhere"

        Bravest bastards I've ever seen.

    • Gosman 6.2

      Or perhaps as weak as a rule requiring 50% of MP's should be women…

    • michelle 6.3

      Yes Phil the new party is fucked and so are national horray !

    • Brutus Iscariot 6.4

      *shrug* – that's just a logical conclusion of identity politics, where your individualism is just subsumed into the demographic boxes you tick.

  7. Fireblade 7

    Hallelujah. Brian Tamaki will be deputy leader, the Orange Dotard will give his endorsement and the NRA will send lotza money.

    The religious nutters and white supremacists will finally have someone to vote for.

  8. Dennis Frank 8

    Judith C "said "rumour and speculation" four times during the brief segment, and "interesting" another four times." She's trying to out-bland Labour. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/112793412/reports-national-list-mp-to-form-christian-party-speculation-collins-says

    "If Te Atatu-based Ngaro won the seat and a Christian party got 2 per cent of the party vote the party could get three MPs and that could be enough for National to lead a government." The fundies reached 4% last time so Stuff needs to think bigger.

    They solicited opinion from a political scientist: "Many moral social issues were exercising the minds of Christians at the moment. They included euthanasia, abortion, cannabis reform. "And all those issues National doesn't really have a strong sort of litmus test … position on," Edwards said. "And so there's a lot of voters that are looking around for a socially conservative voice on this."

    Significant potential for the fundies to reduce the size of the Nat vote considerably! Since divide & rule always works in politics, this initiative could help prolong rule by the coalition – if it ups the achievement rate.

    • gsays 8.1

      Christians are agin cannabis? It's in Genesis, " Then God said, 'Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;"

    • Wensleydale 8.2

      She was trying so hard to play it down as being the fanciful imaginings of conspiracy theorists. "Heh, what a jolly interesting idea! Total speculation, however. Utterly based on rumour. Probably won't happen. Heh. Yes… interesting though." The desperation was almost palpable. It's like what she really wanted to say was, "Shut up, Duncan! The timing is completely wrong! You'll scupper the whole business before its begun!"

      This is National all over. We'll crap out some manufactured minor party to prop us up for the next election, and thus game the system. They already have Arnold Rimmer gifting the nation his pearls of wisdom. Given their penchant for lying, kicking the poor and feathering their own nests, National are about as Christian as the late Aleister Crowley. Any Christian who votes for this abomination should probably read their bible a little more thoroughly.

      They probably won't though.

      • greywarshark 8.2.1

        W-dale Seems correct in everything you say. I think you have seen through any fog that hovers.

  9. observer 9

    The plus point for Ngaro is that he is more appealing than Craig, Capill, Tamaki, Moffett and the rest. But that's a very low bar to get over.

    The unavoidable minus is always the same: you're either independent, or you belong to National/Labour. And if you belong to one or the other, you don't add votes. Worst case scenario, you waste them.

    • Andre 9.1

      Best case scenario (from their perspective), it adds a sockpuppet overhang MP. Like the hairdo from Ohariu was 2014-2017. Or the Epsom hologram really should be, since his nationwide vote is less than 0.83%, but isn't due to the oddities of the Sainte-Lague method of allocating seats that we use.

      • observer 9.1.1

        Yes, but we can only analyse votes cast. It's harder to get data on votes missed.

        I would guess that Dunne did not scare off potential National voters. A party of the religious Right would mean Bridges (or successor) constantly being asked about deals, etc. Adding an overhang seat, or even 2%, is not worth losing 3% in the centre.

        Do National want to go into a campaign being committed against any law changes on drug reform, euthanasia, abortion, marriage equality etc? Or even allowing these issues to be "on the table" in coalition talks? No.

      • greywarshark 9.1.2

        I think a lot of us are not up with the Sainte Lague method of allocating seats. So onto what you have thought might be a better way. Have you an idea of improvement we could make? We could do with some fine tuning of MMP I think.

        • Andre 9.1.2.1

          With our current system of having a 4% or 5% threshold and overhang MPs being exactly the same as other MPs, the difference between Sainte-Lague and the other methods is really unlikely to matter much.

          Under Sainte-Lague, ACT with 0.5% of the vote still got allocated a regular seat under Sainte-Lague. Under "modified Sainte-Lague" and d'Hondt, ACT would not have been allocated a seat and the Epsom hologram would have been an overhang MP. Off the top of my head, dunno which other party would have got that 120th allocated seat and CBF looking it up or working it out.

          In practical terms, Sainte-Lague is more likely to give the last seat in the house to a small party, d'Hondt is more likely to give that last seat to a large party.

          The difference would only become significant if we eliminated the threshold completely. Then the difference could become very significant to a lot of tiny parties as to whether they got one MP or two or none.

          Imagine a 100 seat parliament and 10,000 voters. So each MP nominally represents about 100 voters. Among the minnow parties, A got 40 votes, B got 50 votes, C got 60 votes, D got 90 votes and E got 99 votes, F got 150, G got 180.

          Sainte-Lague would allocate one seat to B,C,D,E and two seats each to E and F. A misses out because it didn't get enough votes to get allocated a seat.

          Modified Sainte-Lague would allocate one seat to D,E,F and 2 seats to G. A,B,C miss out.

          d'Hondt would allocate one seat to E,F,G. A,B,C,D miss out. Note that even under d'Hondt, E got less than one seat's worth of votes, but still got a seat due to the wasted votes for A,B,C,D.

          Looking back at past elections, if we had used no threshold Sainte-Lague, IIRC there were several elections where Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis would have won a seat, along with other minnows. Hell, even McGillicuddy Serious would have come close.

          However, when it comes to fine-tuning MMP, the practical reality is we went through the whole rigmarole of having the Commission investigate and recommend some (pretty timid) changes. Then Jhthulhu just circular filed the lot and nothing happened.

          • greywarshark 9.1.2.1.1

            Andre Thank you so much. I am going to study that – have jobs outside while the sun is out at present. My concern is that an electorate seat won by a tiny party carries what seems a disproportionately large band of brothers and sisters into parliament.

            They can get too much power for what is a pilot party being given a go at being part of the polity. I remember back in the 70s one hard-nosed conservative I think in their second House, holding back the work and desires of the other Parties with his one vote. P erhaps altering the voting system beyond the 51/49 so one vote is not so much the deciding factor. 53/47? That indicates a less fragile majority.

    • McFlock 9.2

      Well, proof is in the next election, but I think this lot have figured out how to do a coalition like grownups.

      The problem for the nats isn't just that they have no friends, it's that anyone likely to want to be their friend will take votes away from them rather than contributing new voters.

      Do we really think the McCroskie crowd don't vote nat already? Any new party will have to coat-tail an MP or two to be any use, and that's not going to get the nats another 7% or whatever to govern.

      • woodart 9.2.1

        but if the nats can get rid of the kiddie bashers, they can at least pretend to be caring.

        • McFlock 9.2.1.1

          ooooo fair point, that…

          • greywarshark 9.2.1.1.1

            That refers to pretence in politics and the idea that it is still relevant to all – pretending to be caring.

            But the Alabama and other states action against any abortion, after their past vile history of uncaring and viciousness, is pretty heartbreaking against even that pretence.

            I saw this comment about politicians of the older type, pretending that they care only for their favoured supporters.

            In the Nelson Mail Quote of the week.

            Can't wait till these old people die out with their outdated ideas and the world can progress. Kiwi MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) fighter Israel Adesanya, commenting after the US state o Alabama passed a controversial law banning abortion.

            As an older person working to hold onto the good from the past, and retain a system that has respect for the needs of everyone in the community that it is responsible for, I find it sad to read this.

            One direction of the progress that is happening among the young shows up in the unfettered nastiness on Facebook, and even though an article in today's Nelson Mail points out that it is a minority that perpetrate the nastiness, it only takes small drops of poison in a well to affect everybody's drinking water.

            Having trust that others will behave reasonably is so important. And knowing when to draw the line. The argument about getting terse with flamers here, and those who interrupt searching discussion with queries about syntax, are examples of how hard it is to move from old thinking and look closely to see whether there is support rife for the trend to fascism and authoritarianism.
            Edit.

            The old will die sometime, after the businesses supplying aids and residential homes have sold to the full, but will the young people have any idea of how to fashion a society that honours their needs. Will it end up, back to the power-hungry and self-centred achievers at top and others below shut out from their own reasonable aspirations. And in other groups, the males melding in dominance kissing the Bishop's ring, or Rod of Power, and the females back to a lower level from where in past decades already, many have never essayed forth?

  10. CHCoff 10

    Speaking of conservatism, it would be good if the govt. partys had two hours divided up between their share of govt. responsibilities on television every Thursday night to produce themselves, and parliamentary opposition one hour likewise on Wednesday nights.

    NZ is a society that aligns with dynamic citizen demand and supply overall to be guided by our collective values, and whether it be state or corporate, shill socialistic supply chains are often poor by comparison and with not small aspects of big media, a huge waste of resources and economy seeking to expand.

    • xanthe 10.1

      there is a germ of a very positive game changing measure in this

      allowing public perception of government to be filtered by the current crop of shills and corporate interests is antidemocratic.

      they may lie to us but at least it would be direct, not lies on top of other lies.

      on the other hand we (the people) could just possibly get a different perspective on the process and outcomes of our government

      sure the devil is in the detail but I still believe direct government media is worth persueing

      • greywarshark 10.1.1

        What if government buy two hours to produce their own informative shows? They are just another entity in a commercial environment.

        They might have to pay highly for those hours when the mass of people are watching but they spend huge amounts on PR, just give some of the glossy people the push. The devil will be in the adverts placed around the government which will often be malicious, or mocking, or attacking. If they could get their own solid two hours, one for government, and one for opposition which should present policy and discussion from the two main sides, that would be effective. We might get to know more, there would be ab audience and the tickets applied for, only two allocated at a time to avoid simple blocs of the obsessed.

  11. vto 11

    The real problem National have is twofold;

    First, they are conservatives themselves but fail to recognise such.

    Second, society has moved on and left National behind, also as always happens to conservatives, being the followers that they are.

    All of this simple stuff is quite beyond them.

    • Gosman 11.1

      The trouble with National at the moment is that it is too broad based a party. It has sucked up almost all the support on the right without truly representing any particular groups interest fully. It needs to refocus it's aim towards the middle allowing the right to be represented by other parties.

  12. Stuart Munro. 12

    Thinking? Dreaming – like Feefi dreamt of nikau jam.

  13. michelle 13

    no the trouble with national is they are a bunch of self serving cunts

    • Enough is Enough 13.1

      Really?

      Is this the level that we have come to?

      • greywarshark 13.1.1

        EisE

        Yes. And that is why you have chosen your pseudo no doubt. Good on you – stop the rot and let's get back to a democracy with integrity, kindness and humour, it would be more practical in the long run.

    • James 13.2

      no the trouble with national is they are a bunch of self serving cunts

      Michelle – your hateful views are best kept to yourself- and mods (when you see this) is this really necessary?

      • Robert Guyton 13.2.1

        Michelle's view doesn't seem "hateful". One word has upset you, James, and true to form, you repeated it. As any conversation develops, you'll no doubt, as you usually do, repeat it again and again. Just sayin'.

        • Muttonbird 13.2.1.1

          James repeated the word 'rape' almost 20 times over a two day period a while back.

        • Enough is Enough 13.2.1.2

          If is not hateful, what is it?

          What other interpretation can you give to describing a group of people as cunts?

          • Stuart Munro. 13.2.1.2.1

            It depends how they behave.

            Given the Gnats' behavior, Michelle understated the case.

            • Enough is Enough 13.2.1.2.1.1

              I am bit confused with why you call them Gnats, but anyway, I'm sure there is a hilarious story behind it.

              So that I'm clear in my head, its acceptable to use hate speech if a group of people behave differently to the way we do, or have different political views to our own?

              • Stuart Munro.

                They are called Gnats because they are trivial irritating parasites. The title ‘National’ isn’t really appropriate to a party that flogs off anything with capital value overseas every chance they get.

                They had ample opportunity to win my support – nearly a decade in power and no qualms about using a simple majority to claim a mandate. They didn't make an even remotely credible job of it.

                In left groups you'll frequently find them candidly described as traitors – that's how far short they fell of expectations of good government – and in a democracy they get to shut up and hear the views of the people they failed.

            • James 13.2.1.2.1.2

              i don’t like some of the things Jacinda is doing.

              Would you be ok with me saying Jacinda is a cunt?

              Im guessing not – and apart from using it in this example – I would not say it because It is hateful and vile.

              Or or can you only use it against people YOU don’t like?

              Btw – I don’t like how Jacinda running of a lot of things – but do not believe she is deserving of a term like that.

              • Stuart Munro.

                Actually James, you are and always have been fos. I'm sure you do call Jacinda a cunt, in the company of your fellows. Hateful and vile is how you roll, and you're not fooling anybody.

                It’s not a matter of “don’t like” either. The previous government lied. They stole. They were corrupt – so corrupt that Southern Response is facing a massive class action. So corrupt that this government is obliged to compensate people evicted from their housing by false P tests. They were an objectively despicable government, and cheerfully made these dishonest and prejudicial decisions because they were cunts. And you loved it. Because you’re one too.

                • James

                  You are funny wee, sad man.

                  • Muttonbird

                    Stuart is correct.

                    Key used Dirty Politics in association with Cameron Slater and harassed a woman in her work place. Joyce ripped off the music of a rap artist for political gain. Collins threatened the head of the SFO and also associated with Cameron Slater. Bennett doxxed beneficiaries also for political gain. The list goes on.

                    They are horrible people. Jacinda Ardern is not, and that is where your corollary fails.

                • Stuart Munro.

                  But not as pathetic a specimen as you – I choose to express myself in a forum with broadly similarly views.

                  You have the arrogance and thoroughly bad taste to try to impose your views on a community that despises you.

                  • James

                    Unlike you – I don’t have to hide in a forum that is an echo chamber of my own views.

                    Nice that hat you can speak for the entire community here. I missed the election that voted you as the spokesperson- they could have done so much better.

                    You seem to be particularly uppity this evening. Bad day huh?

                    Cheer up sunshine.

                    • Stuart Munro.

                      Your arrogance is only surpassed by your ignorance James.

                      "uppity" am I? You wretched snob – you might have money but you lack the class to sustain that pretention, barbecue boy.

                      All I have done is defend Michelle's comment from the hordes of concern trolling oiks. If that inconveniences you so much the better.

                    • James []

                      ok uppity and bitter would be a better description for you

                      You do know that I’m laughing at you right?

                    • Stuart Munro.

                      Gosh why don't you try to patronize me some more James?

                      That will really convince people, of something.

                      It's not as if you have an argument to make or observations to share.

                      You're only here to troll, which is not a protected activity.

                    • James []

                      Uppity Stu.

                      You kinda missed the observation that calling a collective group of people cunts.

                      Too busy getting your panties in a knot huh?

                    • Stuart Munro.

                      You've just missed the point as usual.

                      Your grammar seems to have abandoned you along with your wits, but you left something out:

                      "that calling a collective group of people cunts"

                      that calling a collective group of despicable people cunts

                      Get it, barbecue boy?

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Here's James @13.2 getting his "panties in a knot" – oh, the irony. smiley

                      "Michelle – your hateful views are best kept to yourself- and mods (when you see this) is this really necessary?"

                      Current penalty count: Michelle 1; James 3.

                    • Robert Guyton

                      See 13.2.1

                      Luv ya, Jamesheart

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Yes, James' (broken) record speaks for itself. We just tot up the score!

            • greywarshark 13.2.1.2.1.3

              I don't like that sensitive female-oriented body part being used as a pejorative myself. I understand Michelle's feelings. But shits might be a better word, turds too, being universal, non-sexist and understood by all. Even able to be used as an analogy as some Nats, with some effort and rehabilitation could become useful for faecal implants, providing strength to the weakened National immune system. There is good in some of that shit if looked for.

              Here is West Side Story Gee Officer Krupke. (Chorus – Deep down inside us there is good There is good, there is untapped good etc.) Imagine the Nats singing out their deepest truths about their lack of a childhood with caring and moral input concerning fairness and respect for all. Poor Nats, bent from childhood to be liars and cheats, to get to the top and whip the cream for themselves by any means they can think of. What a turnaround if they could adopt better ways and become better shits. (After that is Mein Herr, which fits the theme too.)

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7TT4jnnWys

          • Wensleydale 13.2.1.2.2

            Sometimes the truth is painful to accept.

          • Psycho Milt 13.2.1.2.3

            What other interpretation can you give to describing a group of people as cunts?

            I may be drawing a long bow here, but I believe it means she doesn't like them. Otherwise, she would have called them "good cunts."

            • Enough is Enough 13.2.1.2.3.1

              Yep – and when we are in the middle of a national debate over what is hate speech, where does this sit?

              Using a term which is extremely offensive (to many people) to describe people you don't like is inciting hatred.

              What would we say of some Kwibloggers said:

              • the trouble with the Greens is they are a bunch of faggots
              • The trouble with the Maori Party is that are a bunch of n#^%gers
              • The trouble with Labour is they are pack of poofters.
              • I'm a regular on Kiwiblog and phrases like that are routine there (or were, until the moderators turned up).

                Those are hate speech terms that express bigotry against a group. I know that cunt is used in the USA as a hate speech term for women (and boy does that tell you something creepy about US male culture), but this isn't the USA. In this country, cunts is just a general term for people you don't like. (Unless they're good cunts, in which case it's a general term for people you do like. English swearing is very flexible.)

              • McFlock

                It's the last word in each sentence that's the bad bit.

                "cunts"? Has that been used to marginalise and dehumanise people for hundreds of years? Or is its only negative connotation the fact that people use it to be negative (personally, I like it used more as a positive, but each to their own)?

                Hate speech is more than just expressing disapproval or anger.

                Nats have a long tradition of being self-serving. That's the bit we should be angry about.

              • arkie

                @Enough is Enough

                As I see it, National has the capability to not be a ‘bunch of cunts’.

                This is important to your counter argument: the terms you used in your hypothetical are slurs to denigrate people based on things they don't have the ability to change. This is why I don't these terms are equivalent.

          • alwyn 13.2.1.2.4

            One should probably ask Green Party XX leader Marama Davidson.

            She seemed to be very proud of the label and for a while seemed to use it in just about every sentence. They seem to have shut her up more recently. Perhaps XY leader Shaw put his foot down.

        • JohnSelway 13.2.1.3

          given it’s the most offensive word in the English language and almost every woman I know (outside a couple) find it very offensive I’d hesitate to suggest it isn’t thrown around on a public blog

      • Sabine 13.2.2

        i really don't see why you get so offended James.

        Cunts are good, they are warm, have depth, bring joy and birth life – non of these things can be attributed to any member of the No mates Party.

        If anything the word is totally misplaced in regards to the No mates party. I would rather call them a bunch of useless wankers, housing welfare frauds, sexual predators, beneficiary bashers, and family silver peddlers.

        me thinks you doth protest much.

    • Jimmy 13.3

      Just look in the mirror with comments like that! what a fuckhead you are! oh thats right reclaim the word!

  14. ankerawshark 14

    We always knew they were cheats happy to game the system to win.

    Maybe time to launch a campaign to support Jami-Lee

  15. Dean Reynolds 15

    The Government needs to move decisively on this – amend electoral law to require any party which wins 1 seat to also reach the NZ wide 5% threshold in the Party vote in order to bring other MP's into Parliament. Why lower the 5% threshold, just because you've won 1 seat?

    If the so called Christian loonies are more than just a single issue bunch of morons, let them demonstrate their wide spread support by reaching the 5 % threshold, NZ wide

    • observer 15.1

      The government doesn't need to amend electoral law. Certainly not for the next election. Sledgehammer, nut.

      National would love them to do it (or try to). A propaganda gift to the opposition.

      • Dean Reynolds 15.1.1

        The Right wing have been rorting an electoral loop hole for years, (Epsom seat). Time to close the loop hole & keep the pricks honest

    • greywarshark 15.2

      That's worthy idea Dean at 15 about threshhold etc.
      What do others think?

  16. Nick 16

    Shit stirring for your kicks is not useful for you james or anyone else.

  17. Peter 17

    I can see it now, Simon making his first speech as PM saying what got him there – the Hand of God!

  18. marty mars 18

    I like it. More distraction for the right and their limpets. Meanwhile the left and the Government get on with making this country better.

    • Bewildered 18.1

      By better you mean

      kiwi build, 1b trees, thousands of jobs from provincial growth fund, 1800 new police in 2 years, reduction in child poverty, Free student fees to the wealthy, Subsidised electricity to the wealthy Entering Pike River mine beyond a few 100m (even that has yet still to be achieved) All policy fails, hardly transformational government and nirvana we where promised “ let’s do this” exactly what, fk knows

  19. mary_a 19

    Should a Christian Party led by Alfred Ngaro win the Botany seat, then it will have to be renamed the Alabama electorate of east Auckland … ("good Christian" folk banning abortion, while at the same time supporting the sickening process of execution)!

    If Natz picks up this party as a support partner in an attempt to get itself over the line next election, then it's clearly demonstrating it's in desperation mode.

    • bewildered 19.1

      Just to challenge your logic

      “ ("good Christian" folk banning abortion, while at the same time supporting the sickening process of execution)! “

      The inverse “ ( “good progressive lefties supporting sickening process of late term abortion baby killing while at the same time banning execution)!”

      • Sabine 19.1.1

        nope it would be this

        https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/443687-pregnant-11-year-old-rape-victim-in-ohio-would-be-unable-to

        "

        An 11-year-old Ohio girl who was impregnated by her rapist would be unable to receive an abortion under a bill recently passed in the state that bans the procedure once a fetal heartbeat is detectable.

        The young girl had reportedly been raped repeatedly by a 26-year-old man, CBS News reported, citing local police records. But under a new bill signed by Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine (R) last month that bans women from obtaining an abortion once a fetus’ heartbeat is detected, as early as six weeks in some cases, the young girl and others in similar cases would be unable to receive an abortion.

        Though the young girl in this particular case will reportedly not be subjected to the state’s new abortion law while it remains pending, the case has brought light to future women and girls in similar circumstances that would forced to carry their rapist’s baby should the "heartbeat bill" take effect."

        The bill was signed and unless it is struck down chances are she will have to carry this pregnancy to term, cause fuck it, she is nothing more then an incubator.

        against this

        https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alabama-abortion-law-rape_n_5cdc3627e4b09d94af53f471

        "I become pregnant from this rape, but I will not know until it is much too late. …….

        I walk and speak and smile, but a part of me is convinced that I died that night in the kitchen, and my world is no longer real. I am paralyzed the moment reality tries to assert itself. I have the constant, repeated compulsion to climb atop a building, to step off and let the ground rise up to meet me. This is my first thought when the pregnancy test comes back positive. The doctor tells me that the baby is eight months along, and I am climbing to the top of a skyscraper.

        She diagnoses my unborn daughter with hydranencephaly, explaining how her cerebrum failed to divide into two separate hemispheres, and instead filled with cerebrospinal fluid. The only reason she continues to experience some degree of development is because the cerebellum and brainstem are ensuring the most rudimentary of functions to sustain her precarious life. If she is born, she will suffer and die so very, very young ― and I step off the ledge.

        The doctor tells me that in spite of this, I cannot receive an abortion that will prevent this pain ― both hers and my own. Alabama does not make exceptions for these cases at this stage of pregnancy, and going out of state is beyond my family’s means ― and I fall down and down and down."

        and she birthed her child, loved it and buried it, cause fuck it, the rapist has more rights then she ever will have.

        so please maybe just think before you sprout late term abortion nonsense that has very little to do with anything remotely do to with facts.

        Women, little girls are humans. they are not incubators for the semen some men deposed in them with little regards to their health, their wellbeing, their ability to birth the child, or the ability of the resulting child to live. What happened in the US in the last few days has very little to do with sanctity of life, or being pro live but has all to do with essentially rendering women slave to their reproductive organs.

        When a women or a girl receives a larger sentence for the abortion of their 'uncle / aunty ' cause rape by grandpa, or their 'brother/sister' cause rape by daddy, or 'cuzzie' cause rape by a uncle then the rapist receives for raping her then it has very little to do with justice, god, or sanctity of life.

        I don't know if your comment is based on your believe system or if it was sarcastic, i honestly don't, but good grief, think about it. And i would also like to point out that we have incest laws to prevent harm, yet a girl raped by a family member in Alabama/Ohio and other states is now forced to carry this pregnancy to term, with all the negative issues that can come for children conceived by incest.

        Just please think and ask yourself if you are really that morally superior, or if you are just really not that bothered that women will again be chattel and their children too. Or maybe that is the point of it all?

        • greywarshark 19.1.1.1

          Men, and the few women, who interfere for personal satisfaction with young girls may not rape them, but still deeply hurt their inner being, their sense of self. And we must not forget sexual abuse of boys also. When a person is vulnerable and is used as a sex toy, it shows that the world has no respect for them, that their person and their minds and lives are not truly their own, and their wishes and any dreams they have can be destroyed at someone else's whim. Better to not have any and just keep your head down and not be noticed. Don't trust anybody if you can help it, you will only get hurt.

          And there is hurt also in being denied respect even when there is no sex involved. But if the young one can escape, their inner strength remains and they can make their own way if they are determined.

          • Sabine 19.1.1.1.1

            you miss my point,

            only girls and women can be forced to give birth, over and over again when their right to reproductive choice is systematically eradicated.

            We are currently not talking about rape – but abortion being denied to pregnant human beings who had been raped.

            When boys and men can be forcefully impregnated against their will and thus forced to carry a pregnancy to term – even if the fetus is not viable or conceived in incest, even if it will harm the 'mother' for live, then i will raise the issue about boys.

            As for rape, i have made it very clear of the few years that i have been on this board that i don't stand for it, don't find excuses for it, want the perpetrator locked up for long long times, irrespective of who the rapee is cause we all know that everyone can be raped at any given moment.

            I also don't need rape explained to me as the only difference between the 11 year old girl and me is the fact that i was not kidnapped and did not get pregnant. It happened at home and it was my stepfather, who for laughs and the likes also liked to beat the life out of my brother.

            But again, only women / girls will fall pregnant and need this one particular health service.

        • Bewildered 19.1.1.2

          Using extreme cases either way is not a good arguement I guess it comes down to your view on when you have discretion over another life and when you believe that life starts There are many holes or contradictions in the pro abortion stance, that is what I was high lighting without taking a stance either way

          • Sabine 19.1.1.2.1

            these are not extreme cases.

            these are the expemptions that have been removed.
            no more exemption in the case of rape, incest and only in the case that the mother risks death.

            these are standard cases.

            NZ – https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11332633 a mother at 13 – as she can't consent she was raped.

            Bogota https://www.huffpost.com/entry/c-section-for-11-year-old-rape-victim-in-argentina-sparks-outcry_n_5c7ab437e4b0e1f77651fbb3

            she was 11 and gave birth by cesarian – surely we can agree that an 11 year old can not consent to sex and thus was raped?

            in fact that youngest girl to have been given birth was barely 6 years old.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers

            No my view is that it should be between the women/girl/family doctor. My view is that one should not force an 11 year old who was kidnapped and repeatedly raped to force to give birth her physical health, her mental health, her future opention re schooling, and even giving birth again at a later time be damned and then maybe even be forced to co-parent with the rapist.

            As i said, i can not see what you think and i don't want to put anything towards you, but there is a common sense of decency that i think we can agree on, and abortion at least in the cases of incest, rape, and health issues should be left over to the one who is most affected by it and not by us or by some men in suits who will never ever be put in that position in the first place.

            But extreme these cases are not, sadly they are shockingly normal. and now in certain States of the US they are now forced to carry the pregnancy to term, and please explain to me how an 11 – 12 year old is able to care for a child, provide for a child, go to school, get a job, live a life?

            see here https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence

            • Of sexual abuse cases reported to law enforcement, 93% of juvenile victims knew the perpetrator:2
              • 59% were acquaintances
              • 34% were family members
              • 7% were strangers to the victim

            Victims of sexual violence who are incarcerated are most likely to be assaulted by jail or prison staff.

            • In jail or prison, 60% of all sexual violence against inmates is perpetrated by the institution’s staff.4

            https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12232034

            it is illegal for prison staff to have sex with inmates btw, so again this would not be considered a 'consensual' relationship due to the power imbalance. Btw, she choose to carry her child to term, which is not 'pro – life' but 'pro – choice'. Her choice.

            Not yours, not mine.

  20. rod 20

    Who will be bank rolling this Christian Party, National Party Inc ?

    • Incognito 20.1

      The EB.

    • Sabine 20.2

      Tamaki, the brethren etc.

      • xantheAH 20.2.1

        AHH ha sabine have you exposed what this is really about ?. are we actually looking at a clandistine coalition between national and Brian Tamaki.??

        just as an aside this comments box breaks my tablet (cant get focus in it) and also my linux box (right click hijacked away from spellcheck) ..a poor excuse for my bad spelling but there ya go

        oh second aside i appear to have changed my username for this post at the same time , sorry not deliberate xanthe

        • greywarshark 20.2.1.1

          My cursor goes to the required name line in the address box and the message will start there by the name which shows up as a different name than usual. Annoying if I don't remember to shift cursor. I thought it was just on my computer but apparently not.

          • xanthe 20.2.1.1.1

            ahh yes thats what happened to me so hopefully this will reset me to xanthe

            cant post at all on my tablet cannot get focus in the comments box at all

  21. Pat 21

    I guess in a democracy theres no reason fundamentalist religious individuals shouldnt seek representation in Parliament….perhaps Brian Tamaki should consider it

  22. mauī 22

    It's a natural fit, fundamentally good christian people with all those good human traits and…. the nats.

  23. Paul Campbell 23

    To replace the hologram party? or instead

  24. Sabine 24

    The ghosts that i have called i can not rid myself of anymore. Goethe

    National would do very well to ask themselves if they would not loose a large segment of their voters to the socalled christian party and rather then canibalising the left they might just find that those with extreme religious believes might just vote for the ones that would advance these extreme religious believes.

    why vote for milk toast simon when you can have someone like tamaki/ngaro/israel dude if you are in that believe group.

    look at the states and realise that the republican party is now home to the tea party, and that the old fashioned conservative is either kissing up or resigning.

    oh the fun that will be had in the upcoming shitshow that is gonna be the election.

  25. Incognito 25

    When this does occur it will show again how National is prepared to engage in extremely cynically manipulative game playing of our democratic system for political gain.

    FIFY

  26. Mark 26

    I'm by no means a conservative, but I think the New Zealand political landscape would benefit from a party that is socially conservative and Christian. At the moment we lack one. NZ First focuses on immigration, but not much else. For example, they did nothing, as far as I am aware, to oppose the removal of references to Jesus Christ in the parliamentary prayer, one of the first things the new coalition government did.

    If they handle things right, I think an overtly Christian party would appeal to many migrants, from South Africans and Koreans living in the North Shore, Filipino Catholics, to many mainland Chinese, who take to Christianity like ducks to water.

    Many in Labour/Greens know how to wreck things, but do fucken nothing when it comes to the hard stuff like building houses and CGT, and handling of trade relations, almost stuffing up the China relation.

    We use to have real leaders like Muldoon, Lange, Clarke even. But now politics has descended into a dog and pony show with ‘I’m such a kind person, and even gave birth while not married!’ so therefore I’m the greatest leader in the whole western world! A friend of mind said, the West seems to have lost what once was its great strength – common sense. We need a party rooted in family values and common sense sitting in parliament, because right now we don’t have one.

    If this does go ahead, I wish Alfred Ngaro all the best in this new venture.

    • observer 26.1

      Why do you despise a PM who demonstrates Christian values in her own leadership? What exactly is your problem with kindness? What is your version of the gospels – more division, more hate? Ardern's basic decency is based on her own upbringing. That's where she learned her family values – real ones.

      We had the dog and pony (tail) show until 2007. Not missed.

  27. mosa 27

    15th May 2017

    "Associate Minister of Social Housing Alfred Ngaro told the National Party's Auckland Conference on the weekend there could be financial consequences for the Manukau Urban Māori Authority if Mr Jackson bagged the government on the campaign trail."

    Mr English told Morning Report Mr Ngaro's comments were off the cuff.

    Yeah Ngaro is the perfect choice too head a puppet christian party to prop up a future National led government.

  28. Graeme 28

    Fundy religious / morals based political entities always seem to come a gutsa on moral or belief grounds. Colin Craig and Graeme Capill being two recent examples. It’s a part of society where deeply unpleasant individuals rise to prominence at odds to their professed beliefs.

    The public scrutiny the political process brings to bear alway tips them out.

    Could be entertaining and couldn’t happen to more deserving people.

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  • Bernard's six newsy things at 6.36am on Monday, March 18
    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Retiring former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson said in an exit interview with Q+A yesterday the Government can and should sustain more debt to invest in infrastructure for future generations. Elsewhere in the news in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 6:36am: Read more ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: Wang Yi’s perfectly-timed, Aukus-themed visit to New Zealand
    Timing is everything. And from China’s perspective, this week’s visit by its foreign minister to New Zealand could be coming at just the right moment. The visit by Wang Yi to Wellington will be his first since 2017. Anniversaries are important to Beijing. It is more than just a happy ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    1 day ago
  • The Kaka’s diary for the week to March 25 and beyond
    TL;DR: The key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to March 18 include:China’s Foreign Minister visiting Wellington today;A post-cabinet news conference this afternoon; the resumption of Parliament on Tuesday for two weeks before Easter;retiring former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson gives his valedictory speech in Parliament; ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago
  • Bitter and angry; Winston First
    New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters’s state-of-the-nation speech on Sunday was really a state-of-Winston-First speech. He barely mentioned any of the Government’s key policies and could not even wholly endorse its signature income tax cuts. Instead, he rehearsed all of his complaints about the Ardern Government, including an extraordinary claim ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    1 day ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #11
    A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
    1 day ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #11
    A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
    1 day ago
  • Out of Touch.
    “I’ve been internalising a really complicated situation in my head.”When they kept telling us we should wait until we get to know him, were they taking the piss? Was it a case of, if you think this is bad, wait till you get to know the real Christopher, after the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago
  • The bewildering world of Chris Luxon – Guns for all, not no lunch for kids
    .“$10 and a target that bleeds” - Bleeding Targets for Under $10!.Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.This government appears hell-bent on either scrapping life-saving legislation or reintroducing things that - frustrated critics insist - will be dangerous and likely ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • Expert Opinion: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.
    It hardly strikes me as fair to criticise a government for doing exactly what it said it was going to do. For actually keeping its promises.”THUNDER WAS PLAYING TAG with lightning flashes amongst the distant peaks. Its rolling cadences interrupted by the here-I-come-here-I-go Doppler effect of the occasional passing car. ...
    3 days ago
  • Manufacturing The Truth.
    Subversive & Disruptive Technologies: Just as happened with that other great regulator of the masses, the Medieval Church, the advent of a new and hard-to-control technology – the Internet –  is weakening the ties that bind. Then, and now, those who enjoy a monopoly on the dissemination of lies, cannot and will ...
    3 days ago
  • A Powerful Sensation of Déjà Vu.
    Been Here Before: To find the precedents for what this Coalition Government is proposing, it is necessary to return to the “glory days” of Muldoonism.THE COALITION GOVERNMENT has celebrated its first 100 days in office by checking-off the last of its listed commitments. It remains, however, an angry government. It ...
    3 days ago
  • Can you guess where world attention is focussed (according to Greenpeace)? It’s focussed on an EPA...
    Bob Edlin writes –  And what is the world watching today…? The email newsletter from Associated Press which landed in our mailbox early this morning advised: In the news today: The father of a school shooter has been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter; prosecutors in Trump’s hush-money case ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • Further integrity problems for the Greens in suspending MP Darleen Tana
    Bryce Edwards writes – Is another Green MP on their way out? And are the Greens severely tarnished by another integrity scandal? For the second time in three months, the Green Party has secretly suspended an MP over integrity issues. Mystery is surrounding the party’s decision to ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Jacqui Van Der Kaay: Greens’ transparency missing in action
    For the last few years, the Green Party has been the party that has managed to avoid the plague of multiple scandals that have beleaguered other political parties. It appears that their luck has run out with a second scandal which, unfortunately for them, coincided with Golraz Ghahraman, the focus ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    3 days ago
  • Bernard’s Dawn Chorus with six newsey things at 6:46am for Saturday, March 16
    TL;DR: The six newsey things that stood out to me as of 6:46am on Saturday, March 16.Andy Foster has accidentally allowed a Labour/Green amendment to cut road user chargers for plug-in hybrid vehicles, which the Government might accept; NZ Herald Thomas Coughlan Simeon Brown has rejected a plea from Westport ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • How Did FTX Crash?
    What seemed a booming success a couple of years ago has collapsed into fraud convictions.I looked at the crash of FTX (short for ‘Futures Exchange’) in November 2022 to see whether it would impact on the financial system as a whole. Fortunately there was barely a ripple, probably because it ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • Elections in Russia and Ukraine
    Anybody following the situation in Ukraine and Russia would probably have been amused by a recent Tweet on X NATO seems to be putting in an awful lot of effort to influence what is, at least according to them, a sham election in an autocracy.When do the Ukrainians go to ...
    4 days ago
  • Bernard’s six stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15
    TL;DR: Shaun Baker on Wynyard Quarter's transformation. Magdalene Taylor on the problem with smart phones. How private equity are now all over reinsurance. Dylan Cleaver on rugby and CTE. Emily Atkin on ‘Big Meat’ looking like ‘Big Oil’.Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15Photo by Jeppe Hove Jensen ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Buzz from the Beehive Finance Minister Nicola Willis had plenty to say when addressing the Auckland Business Chamber on the economic growth that (she tells us) is flagging more than we thought. But the government intends to put new life into it:  We want our country to be a ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • National’s clean car tax advances
    The Transport and Infrastructure Committee has reported back on the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill, basicly rubberstamping it. While there was widespread support among submitters for the principle that EV and PHEV drivers should pay their fair share for the roads, they also overwhelmingly disagreed with ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Government funding bailouts
    Peter Dunne writes – This week’s government bailout – the fifth in the last eighteen months – of the financially troubled Ruapehu Alpine Lifts company would have pleased many in the central North Island ski industry. The government’s stated rationale for the $7 million funding was that it ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Two offenders, different treatments.
    See if you can spot the difference. An Iranian born female MP from a progressive party is accused of serial shoplifting. Her name is leaked to the media, which goes into a pack frenzy even before the Police launch an … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • Treaty references omitted
    Ele Ludemann writes  – The government is omitting general Treaty references from legislation : The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last Government in a bid to get greater coherence in the public service on Treaty ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • The Ghahraman Conflict
    What was that judge thinking? Peter Williams writes –  That Golriz Ghahraman and District Court Judge Maria Pecotic were once lawyer colleagues is incontrovertible. There is published evidence that they took at least one case to the Court of Appeal together. There was a report on ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 15
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Climate Scorpion – the sting is in the tail. Introducing planetary solvency. A paper via the University of Exeter’s Institute and Faculty of Actuaries.Local scoop: Kāinga Ora starts pulling out of its Auckland projects and selling land RNZ ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • The day Wellington up-zoned its future
    Wellington’s massively upzoned District Plan adds the opportunity for tens of thousands of new homes not just in the central city (such as these Webb St new builds) but also close to the CBD and public transport links. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Wellington gave itself the chance of ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 15-March-2024
    It’s Friday and we’re halfway through March Madness. Here’s some of the things that caught our attention this week. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday Matt asked how we can get better event trains and an option for grade separating Morningside Dr. On Tuesday Matt looked into ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    4 days ago
  • That Word.
    Something you might not know about me is that I’m quite a stubborn person. No, really. I don’t much care for criticism I think’s unfair or that I disagree with. Few of us do I suppose.Back when I was a drinker I’d sometimes respond defensively, even angrily. There are things ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to March 15
    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:PM Christopher Luxon said the reversal of interest deductibility for landlords was done to help renters, who ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Labour’s policy gap
    It was not so much the Labour Party but really the Chris Hipkins party yesterday at Labour’s caucus retreat in Martinborough. The former Prime Minister was more or less consistent on wealth tax, which he was at best equivocal about, and social insurance, which he was not willing to revisit. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #11 2024
    Open access notables A Glimpse into the Future: The 2023 Ocean Temperature and Sea Ice Extremes in the Context of Longer-Term Climate Change, Kuhlbrodt et al., Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society: In the year 2023, we have seen extraordinary extrema in high sea surface temperature (SST) in the North Atlantic and in ...
    5 days ago
  • Melissa remains mute on media matters but has something to say (at a sporting event) about economic ...
     Buzz from the Beehive   The text reproduced above appears on a page which records all the media statements and speeches posted on the government’s official website by Melissa Lee as Minister of Media and Communications and/or by Jenny Marcroft, her Parliamentary Under-secretary.  It can be quickly analysed ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • The return of Muldoon
    For forty years, Robert Muldoon has been a dirty word in our politics. His style of government was so repulsive and authoritarian that the backlash to it helped set and entrench our constitutional norms. His pig-headedness over forcing through Think Big eventually gave us the RMA, with its participation and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Will the rental tax cut improve life for renters or landlords?
    Bryce Edwards writes –  Is the new government reducing tax on rental properties to benefit landlords or to cut the cost of rents? That’s the big question this week, after Associate Finance Minister David Seymour announced on Sunday that the Government would be reversing the Labour Government’s removal ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: What Saudi Arabia’s rapid changes mean for New Zealand
    Saudi Arabia is rarely far from the international spotlight. The war in Gaza has brought new scrutiny to Saudi plans to normalise relations with Israel, while the fifth anniversary of the controversial killing of Jamal Khashoggi was marked shortly before the war began on October 7. And as the home ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    5 days ago
  • Racism’s double standards
    Questions need to be asked on both sides of the world Peter Williams writes –   The NRL Judiciary hands down an eight week suspension to Sydney Roosters forward Spencer Leniu , an Auckland-born Samoan, after he calls Ezra Mam, Sydney-orn but of Aboriginal and Torres Strait ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • It’s not a tax break
    Ele Ludemann writes – Contrary to what many headlines and news stories are saying, residential landlords are not getting a tax break. The government is simply restoring to them the tax deductibility of interest they had until the previous government removed it. There is no logical reason ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • The Plastic Pig Collective and Chris' Imaginary Friends.
    I can't remember when it was goodMoments of happiness in bloomMaybe I just misunderstoodAll of the love we left behindWatching our flashbacks intertwineMemories I will never findIn spite of whatever you becomeForget that reckless thing turned onI think our lives have just begunI think our lives have just begunDoes anyone ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Who is responsible for young offenders?
    Michael Bassett writes – At first reading, a front-page story in the New Zealand Herald on 13 March was bizarre. A group of severely intellectually limited teenagers, with little understanding of the law, have been pleading to the Justice Select Committee not to pass a bill dealing with ram ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on National’s fantasy trip to La La Landlord Land
    How much political capital is Christopher Luxon willing to burn through in order to deliver his $2.9 billion gift to landlords? Evidently, Luxon is: (a) unable to cost the policy accurately. As Anna Burns-Francis pointed out to him on Breakfast TV, the original ”rock solid” $2.1 billion cost he was ...
    5 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 14
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Jonathon Porritt calling bullshit in his own blog post on mainstream climate science as ‘The New Denialism’.Local scoop: The Wellington City Council’s list of proposed changes to the IHP recommendations to be debated later today was leaked this ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • No, Prime Minister, rents don’t rise or fall with landlords’ costs
    TL;DR: Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said yesterday tenants should be grateful for the reinstatement of interest deductibility because landlords would pass on their lower tax costs in the form of lower rents. That would be true if landlords were regulated monopolies such as Transpower or Auckland Airport1, but they’re not, ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Cartoons: ‘At least I didn’t make things awkward’
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Tom Toro Tom Toro is a cartoonist and author. He has published over 200 cartoons in The New Yorker since 2010. His cartoons appear in Playboy, the Paris Review, the New York Times, American Bystander, and elsewhere. Related: What 10 EV lovers ...
    5 days ago
  • Solving traffic congestion with Richard Prebble
    The business section of the NZ Herald is full of opinion. Among the more opinionated of all is the ex-Minister of Transport, ex-Minister of Railways, ex MP for Auckland Central (1975-93, Labour), Wellington Central (1996-99, ACT, then list-2005), ex-leader of the ACT Party, uncle to actor Antonia, the veritable granddaddy ...
    Greater AucklandBy Patrick Reynolds
    5 days ago
  • I Think I'm Done Flying Boeing
    Hi,Just quickly — I’m blown away by the stories you’ve shared with me over the last week since I put out the ‘Gary’ podcast, where I told you about the time my friend’s flatmate killed the neighbour.And you keep telling me stories — in the comments section, and in my ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    5 days ago
  • Invoking Aristotle: Of Rings of Power, Stones, and Ships
    The first season of Rings of Power was not awful. It was thoroughly underwhelming, yes, and left a lingering sense of disappointment, but it was more expensive mediocrity than catastrophe. I wrote at length about the series as it came out (see the Review section of the blog, and go ...
    6 days ago
  • Van Velden brings free-market approach to changing labour laws – but her colleagues stick to distr...
    Buzz from the Beehive Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden told Auckland Business Chamber members they were the first audience to hear her priorities as a minister in a government committed to cutting red tape and regulations. She brandished her liberalising credentials, saying Flexible labour markets are the ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • Why Newshub failed
    Chris Trotter writes – TO UNDERSTAND WHY NEWSHUB FAILED, it is necessary to understand how TVNZ changed. Up until 1989, the state broadcaster had been funded by a broadcasting licence fee, collected from every citizen in possession of a television set, supplemented by a relatively modest (compared ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • Māori Party on the warpath against landlords and seabed miners – let’s see if mystical creature...
    Bob Edlin writes  –  The Māori Party has been busy issuing a mix of warnings and threats as its expresses its opposition to interest deductibility for landlords and the plans of seabed miners. It remains to be seen whether they  follow the example of indigenous litigants in Australia, ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • There’s a name for this
    Every year, in the Budget, Parliament forks out money to government agencies to do certain things. And every year, as part of the annual review cycle, those agencies are meant to report on whether they have done the things Parliament gave them that money for. Agencies which consistently fail to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Echoes of 1968 in 2024?  Pocock on the repetitive problems of the New Left
    Mike Grimshaw writes – Recent events in American universities point to an underlying crisis of coherent thinking, an issue that increasingly affects the progressive left across the Western world. This of course is nothing new as anyone who can either remember or has read of the late ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • Two bar blues
    The thing about life’s little victories is that they can be followed by a defeat.Reader Darryl told me on Monday night:Test again Dave. My “head cold” last week became COVID within 24 hours, and is still with me. I hear the new variants take a bit longer to show up ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 13
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Angus Deaton on rethinking his economics IMFLocal scoop: The people behind Tamarind, the firm that left a $500m cleanup bill for taxpayers at Taranaki’s Tui oil well, are back operating in Taranaki under a different company name. Jonathan ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • AT Need To Lift Their Game
    Normally when we talk about accessing public transport it’s about improving how easy it is to get to, such as how easy is it to cross roads in a station/stop’s walking catchment, is it possible to cycle to safely, do bus connections work, or even if are there new routes/connections ...
    6 days ago
  • Christopher's Whopper.
    Politicians are not renowned for telling the truth. Some tell us things that are verifiably not true. They offer statements that omit critical pieces of information. Gloss over risks, preferring to offer the best case scenario.Some not truths are quite small, others amusing in their transparency. There are those repeated ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    6 days ago
  • Funding hole for tax cuts growing by the day
    The pressure is mounting on the Government as it finalises its Budget Policy Statement, but yet more predicted revenue ‘goes missing’. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The Climate Commission has delivered another funding blow to the National-ACT-NZ First coalition Government’s tax-cutting plans, potentially carving $1.4 billion off the ‘climate ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • Luxon’s brave climate change promise
    The Government now faces the prospect of having to watch another tax raise the price of petrol when, only six days ago, it abolished the Auckland Regional Fuel tax. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon argued that the regional fuel tax imposed costs on lower-income people with less fuel-efficient vehicles  and that ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 days ago

  • Positive progress for social worker workforce
    New Zealand’s social workers are qualified, experienced, and more representative of the communities they serve, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “I want to acknowledge and applaud New Zealand’s social workers for the hard work they do, providing invaluable support for our most vulnerable. “To coincide with World ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Minister confirms reduced RUC rate for PHEVs
    Cabinet has agreed to a reduced road user charge (RUC) rate for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. Owners of PHEVs will be eligible for a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000km once all light electric vehicles (EVs) move into the RUC system from 1 April.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Trade access to overseas markets creates jobs
    Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McClay, says that today’s opening of Riverland Foods manufacturing plant in Christchurch is a great example of how trade access to overseas markets creates jobs in New Zealand.  Speaking at the official opening of this state-of-the-art pet food factory the Minister noted that exports ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • NZ and Chinese Foreign Ministers hold official talks
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Wellington today. “It was a pleasure to host Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his first official visit to New Zealand since 2017. Our discussions were wide-ranging and enabled engagement on many facets of New Zealand’s relationship with China, including trade, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    19 hours ago
  • Kāinga Ora instructed to end Sustaining Tenancies
    Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities has been instructed to end the Sustaining Tenancies Framework and take stronger measures against persistent antisocial behaviour by tenants, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Earlier today Finance Minister Nicola Willis and I sent an interim Letter of Expectations to the Board of Kāinga Ora. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago
  • Speech to Auckland Business Chamber: Growth is the answer
    Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Singapore rounds out regional trip
    Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships.      “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister van Velden represents New Zealand at International Democracy Summit
    Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Insurance Council of NZ Speech, 7 March 2024, Auckland
    ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland  Acknowledgements and opening  Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho.  Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau  My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Five-year anniversary of Christchurch terror attacks
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says.  “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024
    Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024  Acknowledgements and opening  Morena, Nga Mihi Nui.  Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau  Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Early visit to Indonesia strengthens ties
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country.   “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • China Foreign Minister to visit
    Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced that the Foreign Minister of China, Wang Yi, will visit New Zealand next week.  “We look forward to re-engaging with Foreign Minister Wang Yi and discussing the full breadth of the bilateral relationship, which is one of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister opens new Auckland Rail Operations Centre
    Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre, which will bring together KiwiRail, Auckland Transport, and Auckland One Rail to improve service reliability for Aucklanders. “The recent train disruptions in Auckland have highlighted how important it is KiwiRail and Auckland’s rail agencies work together to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Celebrating 10 years of Crankworx Rotorua
    The Government is proud to support the 10th edition of Crankworx Rotorua as the Crankworx World Tour returns to Rotorua from 16-24 March 2024, says Minister for Economic Development Melissa Lee.  “Over the past 10 years as Crankworx Rotorua has grown, so too have the economic and social benefits that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government delivering on tax commitments
    Legislation implementing coalition Government tax commitments and addressing long-standing tax anomalies will be progressed in Parliament next week, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The legislation is contained in an Amendment Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill issued today.  “The Amendment Paper represents ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Significant Natural Areas requirement to be suspended
    Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard has today announced that the Government has agreed to suspend the requirement for councils to comply with the Significant Natural Areas (SNA) provisions of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity for three years, while it replaces the Resource Management Act (RMA).“As it stands, SNAs ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government classifies drought conditions in Top of the South as medium-scale adverse event
    Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has classified the drought conditions in the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts as a medium-scale adverse event, acknowledging the challenging conditions facing farmers and growers in the district. “Parts of Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are in the grip of an intense dry spell. I know ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government partnership to tackle $332m facial eczema problem
    The Government is helping farmers eradicate the significant impact of facial eczema (FE) in pastoral animals, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced.  “A $20 million partnership jointly funded by Beef + Lamb NZ, the Government, and the primary sector will save farmers an estimated NZD$332 million per year, and aims to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ, India chart path to enhanced relationship
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