web analytics

Its not easy being Green

Written By: - Date published: 12:39 pm, January 11th, 2014 - 175 comments
Categories: climate change, greens, labour, Left, national - Tags:

Julie Ann Genter Greens

There have been a couple of recent contributions to the debate about whether Labour should adopt an aggressive or a cooperative strategy with respect to the Greens this election year.

Stuart Nash suggests at the daily blog that the Green’s polling will decline back to historical levels this election day.  He does not provide any reasons to show why and to be frank I doubt that this will happen.  I have been really impressed by the Green’s discipline and sense of purpose this term and I believe that they have established a new band of support which will not drop without something unusual happening.

He theorises that after the election Labour could go into coalition with NZ First instead of the Greens which is always possible depending on the numbers after the election.  He also does not rule out the Greens going into coalition with National.  I suspect that hell would have to freeze over before the Greens would even think about this and past refusals to rule this out as a possibility have had more to do with the need to preserve their options than anything else.

He states that the only way for the Greens to grow their vote is to cannibalise Labour’s vote and here I disagree with him.  They are well placed to persuade a portion of the 800,000 who did not vote last time to vote this time and even a modest reduction in the non vote could pay significant dividends for the Greens.

He thinks that a too close coalition with the Greens before the election will harm Labour’s prospects.  Again this is only true if the only votes Labour is seeking are those of people who voted National before.  The non vote provides fertile territory for Labour to improve its support.

He concludes that the battle this year will be between Labour and National and again I disagree.  The Greens performance this year will be vital and for the left to win both Labour and the Greens will need to perform well.

Josie Pagani has also joined the debate.  She has tweeted that the real action this year will be between the “major” parties and not the “small” parties.  She obviously thinks that the Greens are “small” despite their having polled over 10% for a considerable period of time.  Her accumulated wisdom on the matter is behind Listener’s paywall.  My objection to enriching the owners of that once liberal but now challenged magazine has meant that I have not been exposed to the full intricacies of Josie’s analysis but I suspect that her tweet says it all.

With the greatest of respect their analyses are misguided.  This is MMP and every vote counts.  The next Government will be formed by the biggest block as long as they can get confidence and supply.  If the Greens maintain their current polling and Labour gets to 37% or above then it is likely that there will be a Labour Green Government at the end of this year.

And the recurring problem is that by expressing these views Nash and Pagani are adding to National’s framing of the issue.  Barring some major catastrophe it is likely to again be the highest polling party this year and it will probably seek to intimidate NZ First into giving it support because of this.  But under MMP if the left block can garner more support then it should have first run at forming the new Government.  The individual support that a party has is irrelevant and this has been shown by how every single MMP Government has only been able to form a Government with the support of smaller parties.

National will try and tie the Greens and Labour together and suggest that the Greens are an extremist party.  I have never thought of them as extremist, their only sin is that they are ahead of mainstream thinking on many issues and it takes a while for mainstream opinion to catch up.  For instance they have campaigned on climate change issues for years.  It is only now that arch tories such as David Cameron and John Key accept that climate change is real.  It is a shame that they cannot show the political bravery needed to actually do something about the issue.

So I don’t think that this election should be, at least in terms of the party vote, a battle between Labour and the Greens for party voters.  I hope both parties put their full efforts into growing the left vote.  I do believe however that for the electorate vote there may be occasions where progressives should think about voting strategically.

175 comments on “Its not easy being Green”

  1. Paul 1

    Doesn’t Josie Pagani ever take the argument to National?
    Or is she just their poodle?

    • Murray Olsen 1.1

      It could be that Pagani doesn’t take the argument to National because she doesn’t want to risk offending a potential coalition partner in a government of national unity/stability. There seem to be many in the Labour caucus who would be more natural bedfellows of NAct than comrades of Mana/Greens.

    • dave 1.2

      800000 didnt vote to reach those people we have all got a part to play so if a green gets a protest vote great if cunliffe/labour grads a few great that means no more donkey theres only 2 percent needed to send smile and wave to the exits so to hell with arguments we have an election to win !!!

  2. geoff 2

    Looks like there’s too many chiefs and not enough indians surrounding the Labour party.

    I hope Cunliffe gets Labour’s messaging sorted otherwise all the wannabes like Stuart Nash and Josie Pagani will be defining Labour in the public eye.

  3. Colonial Viper 3

    He also does not rule out the Greens going into coalition with National. I suspect that hell would have to freeze over before the Greens would even think about this

    Does Stuart know that the Green membership has to approve any coalition deal? Unless he thinks that the membership is going to tick going into bed with Key and English, this is a no-go.

    Labour…it’s an MMP environment now…

  4. infused 4

    Lol greens and national

    • McFlock 4.1

      true – national will go into coalition with fraudsters and liars, but I think the Greens might have a bit more class than that.

      • weka 4.1.1

        Not to mention that they would gut the membership. I’d resign if they did. Esp this particular National Party.

  5. blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 5

    I was prepared to accept there might be some research backing Nash’s stance in that Greens are some type of threat to Labour’s ‘brand’, however having received no reply to my comment on the Daily Blog and noted the time taken by Mr Nash to reply with pathetic ad hominem attacks toward other commenters – all bar one who were disagreeing with his article – I have to conclude Labour still has a lot of work to do re connecting with their audience.

    I can’t think of anything more stupid than what Nash wrote yesterday.

    Can Cunliffe not haul in his rabble and get some discipline in the message they are presenting to the public? – because I really think that the decision to present an article dissing Greens on a left-wing blog site – gives a very strong message that Labour hasn’t ‘got it together’ at all.

    Voters need to see that the parties on the left can work together.

    Is that so very difficult to understand?

    • Colonial Viper 5.1

      There’s this weird idea going around that if the Greens weren’t on the scene, Labour would automatically grab the lions share of the Greens 12% or whatever, for themselves.

      • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 5.1.1

        Yes, CV, apparently this is so and it is very distressing to observe.

        I have been watching parliament channel over the last few years and have viewed with great relief the clearly research based, solid & consistent opposition that the Greens have conducted toward this horrible government. This was occurring throughout the time when Labour were a completely disorganized mess and providing no effective opposition to this rotten government.

        I have been extremely delighted to see more focus from Labour under Cunliffe and love it when all the opposition parties work together to cut down on the nonsense that this useless government bring to parliament time – [reflecting what they are bringing to NZ – yet my comment is on my observations of parliament time] – this cooperative approach is usually where they have the most success at driving home a point.

        It is really very disheartening and unbelievable after such observations, to then read the idiotic message that Mr Nash was attempt to propagate – it is an insult to the readers, to the Greens good efforts and I do believe a very real undoing of the good work Mr Cunliffe and others who support him are putting in to getting this ridiculous right-wing government elected OUT.

      • SHG (not Colonial Viper) 5.1.2

        But… but… those Green votes are Labour’s votes by right. Clare Curran said so.

    • weka 5.2

      Is Nash speaking on behalf of the Labour Party? What exactly is his relationship now?

      • Saarbo 5.2.1

        His wedding in 2012 was on the same day as the Labour Party Conference…I don’t know if this shows his commitment to Labour or not, but if I was as involved as him I would have set the date differently (refer 7th paragraph from the bottom)…surprise, surprise…Josie attended the wedding. ABC’ers perhaps.

          • weka 5.2.1.1.1

            Bad look, although I suppose it’s possible the wedding date was set before the Labour Party conference?

        • Stuart Nash 5.2.1.2

          Happy to take criticism myself, but leave my personal life out of things please. FYI After determining the date of the Labour Party’s annual conference, I set my wedding date two weeks later. The party realised they had stuffed up and so changed the date. I wasn’t prepared to change my wedding day (preparations well under way at this stage) to accommodate the party. The sad thing was a few of my friends (Shearer for one) were unable to attend due to the change in the party conference date.

      • Anne 5.2.2

        Is Nash speaking on behalf of the Labour Party?

        No weka he’s not. Neither is Josie Pagani. They’re still living in the past both of them. Have yet to catch up with the present and the future. I would expect as much from Josie Pagani, but I thought better of Stuart Nash.

        Remnants of the ABCer thinking still hanging on for dear life.

    • Bill 5.3

      Isn’t Nash simply a Labour Party member at the moment – same as whoever? I mean, the Party can’t dictate what members say and shouldn’t even try. Maybe Nash is being afforded far more prominence in peoples’ minds than he deserves? I mean, if he is simply a member at present and being a wanker, then afford him the status of wanker – not that of unofficial spokesperson for the Labour Party. Same for Pagani or anyone else who assumes to elevate themselves to be Party mouthpieces and gazump the role of the elected mp’s.

      • Macro 5.3.1

        The problem is Bill, these two do more harm than good with their irrational musings. They say they are left but in reality – although they wouldn’t admit it – they are National lite. I use the “lite” on purpose, full of sugar and corn starch, and little substance.

        • weka 5.3.1.1

          Yes, but Bill’s point (which is where I was heading) is why are we treating them as if they are Labour?

          • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 5.3.1.1.1

            I thought Nash was a candidate for Labour in Napier. I could [easily!] be wrong.

            • weka 5.3.1.1.1.1

              I looked at his wikipedia page and it’s a bit unclear.

              • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill)

                What Bill is saying is correct, though – it doesn’t matter whether they are members, or candidates – if the public perception is that they are connected with Labour or Leftwing and they are spouting rubbish the ‘shit still sticks.’

                It is better if they are not candidates or connected to political parties – but still there is a massive problem.

                • weka

                  If they are just a member then Labour has nothing to do with it. If they are a candidate, then don’t they have to fit in with wider Labour party policy and strategy? Wouldn’t the LEC and/or the wider party be involved? Or can a candidate say whatever they want? (oh, right, Shane Jones…never mind).

          • Macro 5.3.1.1.2

            As a Green member I don’t! Left Labour a long time back. Have hopes they will again see the light, but …..

        • Bill 5.3.1.2

          Yeah Macro – I know they’re full of shit and cause harm. So…what would the reaction be I was saying what they say? I’d be ignored and given shit – the shit probably being given just for the hell of it 😉

          The problem then, is that they have a prominence that others don’t have. And when they spout their shit, it’s assumed they’re somehow speaking for Labour or for a majority view within Labour – which they aren’t.

          So, how to take their platform away? They are members, no? So if every time they opened their fucking mouths on radio or wherever….and unless they were being explicit on the reality that they do not represent anyone bar themselves… then a follow up cascade of ‘corrective’ texts, emails or whatever from Labour Party members might just see the msm remove them from the platform they have so far afforded them.

          Any other suggestions for the pot?

          • Macro 5.3.1.2.1

            Yep I’ve been thinking something along those lines myself.. msm get these so-called experts and that is their “go too” always . It’s the msm who need to be educated that these people do not represent the thinking of the left anymore (if they ever did.)

    • Bearded Git 5.4

      +1 bl

    • Murray Olsen 5.5

      I found it rather ironic that contributors to TDB love suggesting that The Standard is a Labour vehicle, while they think of themselves as the “wider left whanau” but are happy to give space to Nash’s pathetic rubbish. So far, they haven’t posted a different view to counter his attitude that Labour owns the left vote as if we are nothing more than Russian serfs. I don’t think I’ll be holding my breath.

  6. lurgee 6

    I would be surpised if the Greens went into a coalition with a factionalised, squabbling Labour party that barely musters 33% of the vote. The consequences for the greens could be devastating. They would risk becoming the NZ equivalent of the Lib Dems in Britain, loathed and (unfairly) blamed for everything. If Labour can not get to within touching difference of National, then the greens might well decide to provide ‘constructive opposition’ to either a Labour or National minority administration. It might be the better option for them, strategically.

    • RedLogix 6.1

      As a probable Green voter myself, I’d prefer them to form a coalition with National. At least in that arrangement there would be clarity about whose policy is whose.

      A coalition with a closet neo-liberal Labour party would be a disaster.

      To my mind that has to be Cunliffe’s defining task in the next 9 months, re-shaping Labour so that it is a valid coalition partner for the Greens.

      Because there is a reasonable chance that both Labour and National will need the Greens to form a government in 2015.

      • Macro 6.1.1

        No Red – look at what happened with the Libs, in UK. It would be a disaster.

      • weka 6.1.2

        Red, care to flesh out how you would see a Nat/GP coalition working?

        • Macro 6.1.2.1

          Before the last election the Green’s posted a comparison for their policies alongside those of National and Labour, where there were policies ennunciated by these two parties. There was almost no alignment with National, while there was some alignment with Labour. Can’t find the link now, but it was a graphic and had sign posts as I recall.
          As usual National fly by the seat of their pants, with no real policy guidelines bar, will it accumulate wealth for the rich? So I fail to see any occasion in the near future when the Green’s would be remotely interested. That National has on occasion adopted Green Policy vis Home Insulation, is all to the good, and more is to be encouraged. The more enlightened the right become, the better it is for us all. But I don’t hold my breath.

      • karol 6.1.3

        The Greens couldn’t even negotiate a memorandum of udnerstanding with the Nats this parliamentary term.

      • RedLogix 6.1.4

        My thinking is this.

        If the numbers fell out right BOTH National and Labour could well need the Greens to form a government. If the Greens can hold on to 13-15% it is quite possible that there is no possible government without them. This time I think NZ1 and the Maori Party will fold. It’s too soon to tell how Mana or the Conservatives will do in a real election,

        That leaves only three significant players left. Lets assume the Greens have 15% of the seats necessary to form a government.

        If the Greens go with a Labour Party in the range say 35-40% it will be branded a ‘coalition of the losers’, but more importantly my instinct is that there will be a lot of internal tension between the Greens and the closet neo-libs left in Labour. In the media everyone will try and play nice, in the Beltway it will be knives at half-a-pace. While the two parties do have considerable policy alignment, there is a lot of mis-matched expectation.

        What happens when Labour wants to back new jobs in the oil and gas industry, and the Greens want to hold back over climate change concerns? Very hard to reconcile that while staying good mates. The first time the Greens get into government could end very badly for them.

        By contrast the Greens and National will never be good mates- everyone knows right from the outset that they hate each other and that a coalition with National would be a rat-swallowing, gritted teeth hard knuckle negotiation affair. Which policy compromises the Greens win, and which ones National get will be plain and obvious.

        The Greens couldn’t even negotiate a memorandum of udnerstanding with the Nats this parliamentary term.

        But in the scenario I’m suggesting, the Nats would have far more motivation to succeed.

        More importantly the Greens will get their chance to prove they can be 'responsible' partners in government. That's crucial. Because somewhere down the track in some future election they will get to form a effective left-wing Labour/Green coalition. And at that point National will have no ammo to fling at the ‘cazy’ Greens, because they themselves will have already been there.

        • McFlock 6.1.4.1

          all very well recognising that they’ll never be good mates, but why on earth would the greens go into government with the drill-baby-drill, fire-at-will brigade? Frankly they’d show better principles if they forced a re-election immediately.

          • RedLogix 6.1.4.1.1

            Fair enough on principle McFlock, but I’d imagine that the media would certainly find a way to punish the Greens if they forced another election.

            Of course in an ideal world Labour would be reliably polling over 40%, and Cunliffe would have the closet neo-libs in his party closed out. If both parties carefully did the ground work well before the election, went to the polls as a strong viable coalition, and combined could show a decent 55% plus majority then it would work. I’d be delighted.

            Meanwhile back in the real world …

            • weka 6.1.4.1.1.1

              Ah, election by media then.

              I also can’t see how the GP would coalesce with the bunch of scumbags that make up National currently if they also couldn’t be in govt with a Labour party that has a fair amount in common but wants more jobs via big oil.

              “More importantly the Greens will get their chance to prove they can be ‘responsible’ partners in government. That’s crucial. Because somewhere down the track in some future election they will get to form a effective left-wing Labour/Green coalition.”

              If the GP went into govt with the National Party (as it is now), the membership would crucify them. No left-wing govt later on down the track after that.

            • McFlock 6.1.4.1.1.2

              punish the greens more than the membership would if the greens supported the nats? Doubtful.

              Actually, don’t the greens put agreements to the membership anyway? Vaguely recall soething like that

              • weka

                “punish the greens more than the membership would if the greens supported the nats?”

                What?

                • McFlock

                  sorry – meant whether the media could punish the greens for acting on principle more than how badly the membership would punish the greens for going with the nats.

                  • if the greens went with national..

                    ..the party would implode..

                    ..this is fanciful nonsense..

                    ..not worth wasting time/energy on..

                    phillip ure..

                    • lurgee

                      If the Greens go with Labour, it is likely they would also suffer. Look at how many minor parties in coalitions have survived and thrived.

                      I repeat – the Greens will probably not enter a coalition with a feeble Labour Party, and almost certainly not enter into a formal coalition with National, but might seek to play the party of the constructive opposition to a minority National government – at least giving the country a breather between elections (so Labour can elect another leader …)

                    • @lurgee..there is so much wrong with yr comment..

                      ..with the broad environmental movement that underpins the green party..and the environmental pressures building on us..

                      ..i think yr thesis/comparisons to other parties is flawed..

                      ..and it’s not just greens/labour..mana is also in in there..

                      poss peters..poss dotcom..

                      ..so really..anyone telling you how it is going to pan out..

                      ..is just blowing smoke..

                      ..the only qualification i wd make on grns survival..is if they propped up a rightwing govt..

                      ..a new green party wd then form before the ink was dry on their ‘deal’..

                      ..but that ain’t gonna happen..

                      ..and as for yr relaxed attitude to a third term key govt..?

                      ..do you know what they will fucken do if they get a third term..?

                      ..they will go gangbusters..

                      ..that is why this election is so important..

                      ..phillip ure..

                    • lurgee

                      No-one has ‘told’ me how things are going to work out in the election. I’m simply making a point, based on my own branes, about what the Greens might decide to play the results if they hold the balance of power.

                      Where did you discern a ‘relaxed attitude towards a third term Key government’?

        • Pasupial 6.1.4.2

          If the numbers fell out so that it was; National + NZF + CCCP, within a couple of seats of a majority. I’d fully expect the rats in Labour to jump ship in the style of; Alamein Kopu from the Alliance, and her ilk from NZF back in those dark Shipley days. Such waka-jumping would truly be evidence that the Labour party had jumped the shark though.

          Then in 2017 (or earlier with such an unstable clusterfrack of a government), we might see something like; Nats on 35%, Labour on 30%, and Greens on 25%, Mana 5 %, plus various parties of one. In such a scenario, I wouldn’t be surprised if Labour went into coalition with National rather than the Green party (especially if Cunliffe had been stabbed in the back for his “failure” in 2014, and someone like Parker was holding the reins).

          I not saying I want this to happen; just that it could, and I wouldn’t even be that surprised.

  7. Will@Welly 7

    So, if we believe the “pundits”, its likely to be National 50-55%, Labour 45-50%. Interesting.
    I still find the best politicians are heavily stacked in the Greens, but we can’t mention them, because, theoretically, they won’t rate – LOL!!!! I’m also a big fan of Hone and the Mana Party, I expect him to pick up one other seat this year. But we can’t mention that either.
    Its a pity that some see their natural allies as being the “enemy”, instead of focusing on the truth.

    • Bearded Git 7.1

      Labour 36% Greens 13% Hone 2 seats and it’s goodbye Shonkey. (Or 35/14)

      IMO joint strategy needed between Labs and Greens in Epsom and Ohariu and between Labs, Greens and Mana in the Maori seats.

      Ignore the crap that Pagani and Nash are spouting (don’t give them the oxygen) and talk policies and election strategy.

      • McFlock 7.1.1

        Agreed.

        Epsom – I reckon it would be funny to see both labour and the greens campaigning for the nat candidate 🙂

      • Lanthanide 7.1.2

        Yeah, that’s my feeling on it too BG.

        In reality, Labour only needs to poll slightly ahead of where they are, and Greens stay where there are, and they have a very good chance of winning the election, based on Mana and Maori Party results.

        NZFirst is the spoiler really, if they weren’t in the picture at all, on the current polling the situation is pretty clear.

        • Bearded Git 7.1.2.1

          Winston can’t stand Key and might enjoy keeping the Greens out of government by joining with Labour so long as the baubels are on offer.

          • Chooky 7.1.2.1.1

            @BG…Winston might ….but on the other hand the Greens are more established as the third party and popular now… and Green issues eg climate and environment are urgent ….so Winnie doing this would not make him popular!…..also I don’t think Labour would wear excluding the Greens, the third party ….Labour is going to need the Geens in future and their policies are not that different…for Labour to exclude the Greens would be very unpopular

  8. Michael 8

    I wouldn’t put it past the Nats (Crosby Textor) to incite a shitfight between Labour and the Greens. After all, divide and rule always works well for the Right. It appears that there is plenty of incendiary material on the Labour side anyway.

    • Colonial Viper 8.1

      Sure I agree but that hardly explains Pagani and Nash firing off bullets from the hip.

      • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 8.1.1

        Yes, who needs Crosby Textor propagating right-wing dividing-of-the-left tactics when we achieve such all by ourselves! 😐

        • Macro 8.1.1.1

          Exactly!

        • weka 8.1.1.2

          “Yes, who needs Crosby Textor propagating right-wing dividing-of-the-left tactics when we achieve such all by ourselves! :|”

          Who’s this ‘we’? Pagain and Nash ain’t on the side I’m on.

          • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 8.1.1.2.1

            ‘We’ are the people who intend to vote this government out.

      • Olwyn 8.1.2

        That thread of Nash’s has more than 70 comments, most carrying the same message that people have been sending to Labour since the 2011 defeat. What must it take for Labour’s thin blue line to pull its horns in? Not the greatest defeat Labour has ever seen, not their failure to sell their chosen leader to the membership and public, and not their failure to influence the choice of a new one. After such general rejection, they still seem to think, OK, they want Cunliffe. Well he can do the rhetoric while we keep hold of the steering wheel.

        • Draco T Bastard 8.1.2.1

          What must it take for Labour’s thin blue line to pull its horns in?

          Actually, I think it’s time to ask:? What does it take to get Labour to kick it’s thin blue line out of the party?

          • Olwyn 8.1.2.1.1

            As I have said recently, I would like to see the LP principles treated as a standard they must adhere to, if they are to stand for Labour, or be regarded as spokespersons for Labour.

      • QoT 8.1.3

        My theory: distraction. The options are either treat the Greens as Labour’s true enemies, or have a good hard look at why Labour has failed to rebuild support since 2008. And the names that might come up during that process … well we know who they are.

        • McFlock 8.1.3.1

          “Rebuild support”? To what level?

          To me, the big numbers difference between Labour and National is because the nats are literally the only significant party on the right. That’s the team with regular MSM support.

          The other side consists of Labour, Mana and the Greens.

          MaoriParty can go either way (individual pride notwithstanding). As can NZ1.

          Even assuming another 5-10% of DidNotVotes return to voting and vote Labour, that will only increase labour’s vote by a fraction of that.

          Labour need to get used to the idea that in a diverse political left environment, labour getting 40% by itself will be an exceptional election result. National do it because they have no friends. A good defeat and they will be out for another three terms.

          • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 8.1.3.1.1

            +1 McFlock

          • karol 8.1.3.1.2

            Middle of the Clark terms of government, weren’t National polling down int he 20% range and Act up much higher than it is now?

            Nats and Labour pollling so low indicates lack of support for each parliamentary party, their policies, and/or their leaders.

            • McFlock 8.1.3.1.2.1

              Not sure how often ACT polled double digits, if ever. Certainly never achieved 10% of the vote this millenium.

              Nats vote in 2002 went to 20.9%, but ACT only got 7% (with ~16% for the parties that could go either way). So basically the tories went down to 28.

              Lab in 2011 went down to 27%, greens on 11%, mana on 1%. With another 8% for the parties that could go either way.

              So my guess is that if the nats can’t scrape though this time, they’ll look like perennial losers because they don’t have a viable coalition partner for “the right” – the hopeful replacement are the conservatives, but they look as nutty as act. Basically, the nats will be perceived as unrealistic until they can consistently poll 45% again, and that is what will retard their recovery.

              • Bearded Git

                “…but they look as crazy as ACT.”

                Surely Colin Crayfish has shown himself to be far loonier than ACT?

                • McFlock

                  I dunno – they’re both so far into fairyland it’s difficult to gauge their relative depth 🙂

          • Naturesong 8.1.3.1.3

            I don’t agree with you about Labour being on the left.
            Their policies and rhetoric indicate them to be dead centre (as are the Maori Party and NZ first)

            The Green are centre left, ’cause they’re basically a Social democratic party that understands finite resource limits, and none of their policies are extreme. Mana would be left.

            National during their first term were a centre right party, during this term they’ve been sprinting as fast as they can to the right.

            • McFlock 8.1.3.1.3.1

              Seems to me that if we put all the parties on a table in left-to-right order, we’d broadly agree, but the overlay for the “left-right” labels would be on a slightly different scale.

              • Naturesong

                I’d agree with that.

                But, I do see this constant shifting where what would broardly be percieved as centrist orthodox policies now protrayed as “far left”.

                Not having done papers in political science I see the scale as going from Marxist Communism on the left, through to Autocracy on the right.

                With the margins thus defined, we can see that there is actually no extreme right or left in New Zealand.

                That said, there is very clear corruption in the Right (or Centre Right) in New Zealand, so instead of driving toward an Autocracy, we get a Corporatocracy and with it, the very real risk of a Kleptocracy forming.

                I have made in the past the odd crack about National headed towards facism. It’s mainly been toungue in cheek, however a number of the signs are there.
                Of the 14 signs. the ones missing are; Powerful and Continuing Nationalism, Religion and Government are Intertwined (or complete destruction of religious power), and Fraudulent Elections.(though there has been a distinct strategy for this government to undermine democracy)
                The other 11 signs are there to larger or smaller degree.
                It would not take too much to stoke latent xenophobia and racism within the populous.
                If National did actually push for facism, I suspect that there would be enough principled souls within the National party to prevent it.

                Mostly I see the next election as Centre and Centre Left parties vrs Corrupt Centre Right.

                • karol

                  The corporate plutocracy is transnational (though grounded in one or two (main countries) and thus it has a diffferent set up from a nationally/geographically situated autocracy. Thus, nationalism and religion are not part of it – it covers diverse countries and a diversity of religions.

                • Lanthanide

                  Ok, here’s my take on that list:
                  #1 – no
                  #2 – very very minor
                  #3 – no
                  #4 – no
                  #5 – very very minor, we just passed marriage equality
                  #6 – a moderate amount, but I don’t believe it’s anything particularly directed by the government
                  #7 – not really
                  #8 – no
                  #9 – moderately, although more in terms of favours for corporates than outright power plays
                  #10 – somewhat
                  #11 – somewhat
                  #12 – a moderate amount, but not excessive
                  #13 – not really, using the definitions in the list
                  #14 – no

                  Overall, I’d say you sound like a conspiracy theorist by suggesting that NZ is on the path to fascism based on that list of signs.

          • Psycho Milt 8.1.3.1.4

            Labour need to get used to the idea that in a diverse political left environment, labour getting 40% by itself will be an exceptional election result. National do it because they have no friends.

            Exactly. Beautifully summed up – this is exactly why all the “National consistently polling 10 points clear of Labour” triumphalism from right-wing bloggers is pointless.

  9. um..!..i wd like to carry off the conceit that i have ‘seen off’ nash..on that thread..

    ..he has now gone to ground..answering none of the questions still hanging in the air..

    ..(he resorted to kiwi-swamp-stylings/ad homs..’dot’-criticisms..heh..!..

    ..so i gave him some right back..he doesn’t appear to have taken it well..)

    ..and as already noted..nash must be dismayed at the serious trouncings he received from all but one commenter..

    ..yesterdays’-man/a man out of time/a man on the wrong side of history..

    ..and the sad thing is..he isn’t alone in labour..

    phillip ure..

  10. chris73 10

    Its simple really, the Greens have thrown in their lot with Labour so Labour can say and do anything it likes because the Greens have nowhere else to go

    Had the Greens acted more like WinstonFirst or Peter Dunne it would be a different story so Labour should try to take as many votes as it can from the Greens because what are the Greens going to do about it, go to National?

    The Greens are Labours doormat.

  11. Stuart Munro 11

    It seems that Labour, having failed to thrash these matters out in private, are forced to reveal their inconsistencies in public. It’s damaging.

    Nash’s presumption, that in the absence of the Greens left voters would fall back to them is demonstrably wrong, both Labour and Green support have declined since the leadership contest.

    For myself it might well be Mana if the Greens left the field – certainly a Labour party that rejects the Greens for the reasons that Key does is not remotely trustworthy.

    Nash reads too much marketing material – political parties are not soap. The person matters because it is their commitment to a policy that determines whether it will be implemented effectively and constructively.

    Martyn Bradbury has taken a vow of equanimity, which is responsible, but I’m afraid Labour needs someone to read the riot act to these entitled neo-liberal party princelings. Do a little history and see how Kirk would have handled his cabinet blues.

    • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 11.1

      +1 – with emphasis on reading the riot act

    • Anne 11.2

      Labour needs someone to read the riot act to these entitled neo-liberal party princelings.

      He’s back in town next week. Watch the ABCer media commentators inside the Labour Party slowly lose their influence.

      • Sacha 11.2.1

        When idiots like Nash and Pagani publicly have their party memberships revoked, you’re talking. Anything less exemplifies the lack of basic discipline that cost the left the last election.

        • newsense 11.2.1.1

          What makes Curran, Pagani, Nash and Jones ever think they’d have a shit hope in hell of getting people who voted Green to vote for a party with them in it? It is getting harder and harder to think about voting Labour as I’d normally do, when you look at the actual MPs who ran vicious campaigns against Cunliffe and then the rest.

          There need to be more decent Labour candidates in Labour. It seems odd that there have been a string of people from Fran Mold’s partner, all of the above who seem hell bent on sending the bullets at their own followers and supporters.

          If a Labour-Greens coalition or arrangement can present a stable serious government- and frankly with talent such as Julie Anne Genter in the Greens they seem to have a lot to offer in the way of expert and experienced ministers. Scoffing voters are echoing people like Brownlee in the chamber- they write them off because they simply don’t know them. What on earth could someone from that bunch of weirdos know about traffic planning? It’s not like they’re an expert or anything….oh? they are…oh? ah, right…well.

          Stability, discipline and good management looks much better to conservatives than an unprincipled coalition of the conservatives, Act, UF, NZF and perhaps the Maori party thrown in for good measure. That’s why it could be a good idea to present a stable Labour-Greens coalition government up front. Labour leading a working coalition is much better than Labour trying to find ways to work with Winston. Or taking one from the Stuart- Never rated Shearer- Nash play book perhaps even the Conservative party. After all there values are quite close to NZ First…

          • Sacha 11.2.1.1.1

            “it could be a good idea to present a stable Labour-Greens coalition government up front”

            You’d think.

            • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 11.2.1.1.1.1

              + 1

            • Jim Nald 11.2.1.1.1.2

              “it could be a good idea to present a stable Labour-Greens coalition government up front”

              From what have been on record, the successful presenters for that would likely not include Shane Jones, Pagani or Nash 🙁

  12. McFlock 12

    Good post, mickey.

    It appears that some in Labour still need to realise that MMP has made monolith parties a dying breed. If they don’t embrace the concept of playing well with others, they’ll be gone in 50 years.

  13. One Anonymous Knucklehead 13

    Same old same old. “Those are our votes, you stole them! Give them baaaaaccccckkkkkkk!”

    Nash wastes the opportunity to talk about his own policy preferences, wastes the opportunity to stick it to the Nats, in favour of a tea-leaf reading session based on his personal opinion.

    Newsflash, Nash, lift your game or get out of the way.

    • Paul 13.1

      Yes Pagani and Nash never seem to take the fight to the Nats and instead turn on their natural allies within Labour and the Greens. Pagani slags off the Standard publicly and Nash attacks
      the Greens.
      I won’t be voting Labour until they rid themselves of their neo-liberal wing. There are better progressive parties about.
      I don’t think I am alone in that view.

  14. Steve Alfreds 15

    Going by the results of the last few Roy Morgan polls there’s no way Labour could govern without the Green Party’s share of the vote. I was speaking to a well known unionist the other day about this very issue and he was saying that to win it’s important that Labour and the Greens are seen to be working together as a team before the election. It doesn’t have to involve cups of tea and pre-arranged photo shoots, but the left will remain on the opposition benches if the parties just cannibalise each others votes. While some people have said in this thread that Labour could form a coalition with Winston, it wouldn’t be able to going by the Roy Morgan poll numbers. But Winston could still be be king maker.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 15.1

      Plus one.

      Labour/Green need to be aiming for 55% of the vote (what? It’s aspirational, OK?). To do that they’ll need to cooperate, or at the very least look like they are.

      The good news is, when they play tag-team in the house against Shonkey, Joyce, Collins et al, they rule. Note: most of the pratt-falls come from Labour at the moment, but the Greens will discover that the talent pool is shallow once they get a few more MPs.

      • McFlock 15.1.1

        Actually, 55% is a realistic target (esp. incl mana).

        Labour did run a pretty solid campaign last time, and I think they will again. They also realised that the ony way to differentiate themselves from national was to put themselves so far left that nats can’t pretend to be “labour lite”. The Greens are routinely at >12%, and the drilling will help with that.

        Even with Labour on 30%, labgrn are head to head with the nats. And I think the nats are out of campaigning ideas.
        They’ll probably resurrect the dancing cossacks.

      • middxkea 15.1.2

        but the Greens will discover that the talent pool is shallow once they get a few more MPs

        I think that you will find the Greens Talents pool is extremely deep actually.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 15.1.2.1

          Full of people with the necessary skills to be effective politicians actually? Yeah that’s a nice thought.

          • McFlock 15.1.2.1.1

            I reckon they’re expanding at about the right rate. The real problem is when a growing party jumps so much in a single election that the partially-vetted seat-fillers and passed-over nutbars are unexpectedly MPs – both United and NZ1 spring to mind. I think the greens are doing well at avoiding that syndrome.

        • SHG (not Colonial Viper) 15.1.2.2

          Yep, that Green Talent pool sure looks deep all right.

          “Sure there are still some members who are opposed to immunisation. We’re a diverse party!”

          HERP A DERP CLETUS, WE DON’T NEED NO SCIENCE, WE GOT MAGNETS

          • karol 15.1.2.2.1

            I’m sure you’ll also find a similar spread of views on some issues among Labour Party members – only a very small number of such party members become MP candidates.

          • McFlock 15.1.2.2.2

            Name me a party that doesn’t have idiotic or fantacist members.
            The point about depth is that it describes the number of competent members on the party list between current caucus members and the place where derpy-derp nutbars start to appear.

            • SHG (not Colonial Viper) 15.1.2.2.2.1

              Science, Green Party style.

              Metiria Turei’s tweets on CERN’s attempt to confirm the existence of the Higgs Boson:

              “I was pretty sure they were recreating the Big Bang, so irresponsible. But thankfully they failed.”

              “(…) the cost is depressing, $4b or thereabouts. only if it makes a real difference #notconvinced”

              I’m just so glad that the World-Wide Web exists so Metiria can use it to explain why nerd projects at CERN are useless.

              • McFlock

                slight difference between that and the medicinal water crowd.

              • karol

                You got links for that SHG, so we can see the context?

                Can’t have been a recent tweet as I can’t see it in metiria’s stream.

                Turei on Twitter often has a sense of fun. She is usually quite well informed on science matters.

                • SHG (not Colonial Viper)

                  Turei’s twitter feed, 4 July 2012.

                  • karol

                    Oh. Right – some real cherrry picking then?

                    • McFlock

                      ha – This link should help.
                      The “big bang” comment appears to have been in response to a tweet from someone else saying

                      what’s going to happen? Is the world exploding? Can we live in space? #higgs

                      #MuchAdoAboutBullshit #ToriesNeedSarcTags

                  • McFlock

                    how does one backtrack threads on twitter, w/o holdng the scroll button for half an hour? Must be a direct link or something

                    • karol

                      Nope. You can only keep scrolling down – and with as many tweets as Turei has made, just in the last month, it’d take forever to scroll back to July 2012.

                      If you see a tweet you may want to quote at a later date, best to save it and the URL immediately – or favourite it.

                    • karol

                      Your link doesn’t work for me unless logged in to twitter. Try this one.

                      No, this one.

                    • felix

                      There is an advanced twitter search function somewhere that allows you to search for specific words and phrases in someone’s feed history.

                    • McFlock

                      #AnnoyedAtThis

                      #OOS

                      #NotSureWhenToStopUsingHashtags

                    • McFlock

                      lol your first one was pretty funny, too.

                      Still, I don’t think I’ll bother with twitter. Except for #ToryLieChecking

                    • QoT

                      I use Topsy.com. Allows you to search for specific words in a specific user’s feed.

                      You have to pay for the geo-targeting search though so it’s not as useful for more general stuff.

                  • karol

                    So as far as I can see, Turei expressed some concern about the spending on the Higgs Boson project, as she thought that amount of money could usefully be spent on poverty.

                    But she also tweeted something about some of the findings related to Higgs Boson could be useful.

                    So no relation to people challenging the science, or seeing some science projects as a major conspiracy.

          • felix 15.1.2.2.3

            Can you name a political party with no members opposed to immunisation?

          • Sacha 15.1.2.2.4

            Nice try. You may have missed Kevin Hague on the tv news attending the last NZ Skeptics conference.

      • Bearded Git 15.1.3

        “…but the Greens will discover that the talent pool is shallow once they get a few more MPs.”

        That’s what people said before the Greens got the current 14 members-and IMO they have all acquitted themselves well in this parliament, with the odd hiccup.

        Plenty of talent out there for a Green Party like this one that selects people on merit.

  15. Wayne 16

    Well if you are Green, as it seems many commenters here are, clearly it is not in your interest to see the Labour vote grow relative to Green. But if you are Labour, you will want to grow the Labour vote.

    Whilst it is true that in MMP coalitions are the name of the game, the composition of them matters. The Nats clearly have a cleaner message for voters since voters know that a center right coalition is 90% Nat. Therefore Nat promises can be relied on. If they say 49% privatization of SOE’s that is what you get.

    For Labour this is more difficult if only 66% of the potential coalition is Labour. What will a centre left coalition be like?

    That was the point of my comment on Shell and oil exploration. What would the coalition policy be? Can anyone really answer that at this stage? This is why Labour/Green are going to have to spell out a minimum of agreed policies. Otherwise what are the voters voting for.

    • mickysavage 16.1

      If that is the case Wayne then why did National go with one of ACT’s more extreme policies of Charter Schools. National could have told John Banks to get lost but it went with this policy despite all the evidence suggesting that it would be a disaster.

      • Macro 16.1.1

        Well we all know the answer to that Micky..
        “Why persist with John Banks?” might be more pertinent.

      • Wayne 16.1.2

        I would say 5 charter schools is a fairly small concession. They seem to be fairly common in many other OECD countries, but they have sure excited the Left in NZ. Are they really an extreme right policy?

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 16.1.2.1

          Yes. A cat’s paw, Dr. Mapp, as you very well know.

        • mickysavage 16.1.2.2

          Are they really an extreme right policy?

          If not then why didn’t the National Party adopt them as part of its policy?

          I presume that you classify National as being centre right rather than extreme right?

          • blue leopard (Get Lost GCSB Bill) 16.1.2.2.1

            Nevermind what Mr Wayne defines National as

            The level of hardship being faced by citizens of our country,
            the rights we have lost,
            the retrospective legislation approach that has been pursued,
            the losses of jobs,
            the education opportunities that have been destroyed,
            the tax benefits to the wealthy that have been put in place in a recession,
            the punitive measures toward jobless people in a recession,
            the privacy breaches that have occurred,
            the democratic bodies that have been interfered with,
            the informative TV channels that have been taken away,
            the income generating assets that have been sold off,
            the agreements that have been made with Sky city,
            ….. the list goes on…..

            ….the consistent lack of addressing New Zealanders’ interests has been blatant and is the handiwork of extremists who cloak themselves with a veneer of ‘reasonableness’ solely consisting of smoke and mirrors, and this is the sum nature of this horrible government.

            Anyone with any decency and self respect wouldn’t argue on their account.

        • Draco T Bastard 16.1.2.3

          They seem to be fairly common in many other OECD countries,

          and they’re failing miserably in all of them.

          Are they really an extreme right policy?

          Yes they are which is why they’re failing miserably.

          • QoT 16.1.2.3.1

            Silly Draco, they’re not failing at all by the criteria the right apply, i.e. more money for their mates.

        • Will@Welly 16.1.2.4

          Wayne – didn’t the MOE announce before Christmas that it had put out/received tenders for the year beginning 2015? on top of the 5 already let.
          If the Nats get back in, watch them ratchet up the implementation of Charter Schools. Easy money for its mates. So where does that leave you Wayne – between a rock and a hard place, or what ??!!

      • greywarbler 16.1.3

        Well if you are Green, as it seems many commenters here are, clearly it is not in your interest to see the Labour vote grow relative to Green.
        Nothing is simple in politics Wayne, and there is no clear path. I think it is important to think strategically to go beyond surviving to winning and getting the best government we can muster to roll their sleeves up and work for NZ best interests and future of all not just past money and the nouveau riche.

        What are the voters voting for? According to Key the reality doesn’t matter, it’s what they think they are voting for.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 16.2

      “Centre right”.

      Depends which policy. WFF, sure. Employment law, hate-speech masquerading as policy (cf. Paula Bennett), military (spying) action against civilians, selling legislation to campaign donors (Sky City et al), “Charter” schools, National’s “Standards” not so much.

    • McFlock 16.3

      If nat promises can be relied on, where the fuck are the surplus, the jobs, and the brighter future?

      • Draco T Bastard 16.3.1

        Well, the surplus is in corporate hands (where it’s supposed to be according to RWNJ ideology).
        The rich are doing really well
        And the governments rich mates are getting great jobs paid for by taxes

    • Anne 16.4

      Charmingly deceptive Wayne at 16

      First we have the cliche:

      If you are Green, … clearly it is not in your interest to see the Labour vote grow relative to Green. But if you are Labour, you will want to grow the Labour vote

      Well I never… who’da thunk it.

      Then we have theoretical percentage arguments which mean nothing to those with their feet firmly planted on planet Earth. The voters get what they ask for, and if they decide – when all is said and done – that they want a centre-left government again they’ll bloody well vote for a centre left government. They won’t be going into the polling booth with the latest list of percentages.

      Labour/Green are going to have to spell out a minimum of agreed policies. Otherwise what are the voters voting for.

      Already answered that question unless of course the real motive is for Lab/Green to reveal the outcome of their negotiations nice and early so that Crosby/Textor can rip into them with lies, deceit, misinformation and a massive propaganda offensive aimed at frightening the bejesus out of the more gullible voters.

    • Sacha 16.5

      “This is why Labour/Green are going to have to spell out a minimum of agreed policies. Otherwise what are the voters voting for.”

      Why, a brighter future. 🙂
      Two can play that game..

  16. karol 17

    Very good post, micky. Well reasoned. Hopefully the likes of Nash and Pagani will take note.

  17. Philj 18

    Xox
    MS
    National went with Act’s Charter Schools because it was their own inclination, a hidden agenda. National wanted charter schools, and Act gave them the perfect justification, to take the flack when it failed. Smart, but devious. If it succeeded as a policy they take the credit.

  18. Philj 19

    Xox
    ‘ NASH for NASHIONAL ‘

  19. He theorises that after the election Labour could go into coalition with NZ First instead of the Greens which is always possible depending on the numbers after the election.

    He did – for all the world as though it wasn’t something to be deeply ashamed about. Leaving aside the fact that he’s dreaming if he’s imagining Labour having the numbers to govern without the Greens after the next election, what the hell is he thinking referring to NZ First as though it were the kind of party Labour has something in common with? Sure, a coalition with NZ First is a possibility for Labour, just as it is for National, but it should be a desperate, last-resort possibility, not the kind of thing you trot out as some kind of tempting prospect. NZ First is a party of small-town conservative bigotry, and is left-wing only to the extent that old people favour universal taxpayer-funded services if they directly benefit. Labour is only harmed by association with it.

    • George D 20.1

      Worse than that – the evidence from the last Government was that they are very likely to pull Labour towards bad decision-making, worsening both policy and electoral sustainability.

  20. felix 21

    “But under MMP if the left block can garner more support then it should have first run at forming the new Government.”

    What does this mean, micky? What is “first run”?

    If you can form a govt you go ahead and form a govt, there’s no waiting for your turn. Or have I missed something about this process?

    • mickysavage 21.1

      I am presuming Felix that Labour+Green do not have more than 50% of the MPs and some negotiation with Mana or Maori Party is required. If they get over 50% then it is job done.

      • karol 21.1.1

        micky, I think you are missing felix’s point. No party or alliance has right of “first run.” If/when a party or alliance of parties can form a government, they can go to the governor general.

        • mickysavage 21.1.1.1

          Agreed karol that they (pollies) do tend to unduly complicate it. Whoever has 50+% of MPs becomes Government.

          • Lanthanide 21.1.1.1.1

            I re-iterate felix’s point.

            Please don’t repeat this ridiculous MSM simplification of “first choice at forming a government” being it’s complete twaddle that all too easily can be mistaken for some sort of process that happens in practice, when really it’s just low-brow sloganism by the MSM.

    • Ad 21.2

      Check the Governor-General’s speech to the Parliamentary Press Gallery last year.
      No text of the speech was released, but Armstrong and Trotter commented on it.
      The GG will clearly favour the grouping proposed to him which is simplest to operate because it has more inherent stability.

      Very interesting contitutional move that I know both Key and Cunliffe took note of.

      • felix 21.2.1

        ” inherent stability” is wide open to interpretation. Perhaps even wide enough as to be meaningless.

        Or worse, wide enough to be interpreted arbitrarily.

        It could mean to exclude specific people or parties considered “unstable” in the opinion of the GG.

  21. bad12 22

    Reading the tea leaves would have me suggesting based upon the growth trajectory of the Green Party through the last 3 elections that there is no reason that the ‘Greens’ will not take 13% of the vote in November 2014,

    My view, admittedly garnered from only reading part of the picture of the 2011 election, is that National has as much to worry about vis a vis the Green Party as opposed to Labour’s supposed blues,(how could i resist),about the growing Green Party vote,

    Have a look at the 2008 and 2011 election figures for the Green Party vote in the deep blue Auckland electorates, the Green Party across all of these electorates mostly doubled and at times tripled the Green Party vote in these National electorates,

    Every one of those Party Votes, lost to National and picked up by the Green Party, are in reality worth 2 votes for the ‘left’, should the same % of rising Green vote within safe National electorates continue at the 2014 election this alone will probably be enough to cause a Tory defeat,

    As a Green Party member i choose to in the main ignore as irrelevant the comments of the Pagani’s and Nash’s of this world, their words seem from where i sit to be those of a dying branch of Labour, something David Cunliffe has as yet seemed not to have come to grips with considering both Goff and Parkers statements made while He was absent from the country,(another matter already well canvassed),

    Generational change i would suggest will see the Green Party share of the vote grow to 20% by 2020 and while many see that share of the vote being ‘damaged’ by a hasty move into coalition with the present brand of the Labour Party i do not believe this is necessarily true,

    The reverse may in fact be true where if Labour are seen to be obstructing Green Party moves in any future coalition Government to in effect hold Labour to what are in effect the Labour core values,(many shared by both Parties),it may not be the Green voters, most of whom approach politics with eyes wide open who revolt, something that Labour strategists should have a deep think about…

  22. George D 23

    I came to offer a comment similar to bad12’s.

    Each party seeks to maximise its own share, and a successful Green Party will attract people who have voted for Labour. It will also attract people who have voted for National in either of the last two elections. There are a number of segments of the electorate in which National are vulnerable to the Greens, and they would be aware of this. Perception and reality are two different things, and the perception of the electorate of Labour vis a vis National, and the perception of the Greens vis a vis National provides for a considerable amount of fluidity.

    If I could, I’d ban the words ‘Labour/Green/National voters’. While there are a number of people will only vote for one of these parties and would never switch under any conceivable circumstance, the reality is that the large majority of the electorate is not aligned deeply with any party (especially when those parties disavow ideology, at least in public). They’re amenable to any party that can broadcast messages that appeal to their sense of the world, present ideas and policies they think are good or reasonable, and paint themselves as highly competent managers of government.

    I know very few Labour people who don’t get on well with at least some Greens, and who don’t consider them allies rather than competitors. If Labour do the work of National in attacking a Green Party that threatens National’s own percentages, then it will be to the detriment of both parties.

    • Pascal's bookie 23.1

      This.

      Voters are not politicians. Not even if they are activists. Not even if they are party members.

      Political parties are, to voters, policy delivery devices. You vote for the one that you think most likely to increase the chance of the sorts of policies you want being implemented.

      That will mean thinking about it in ways very different from politicians, and journalists, and academics. These types are thinking about politics from the point of view of the politicians, usually. It’s the big draw back to ‘horse race’ style analysis. “Who is winning? The one attracting the most votes.” That’s a second order thing for engaged voters. Who is getting the most votes affects what you might do, but what really matters is ‘do you think they are getting votes from people who agree with you?’

      If a party you usually like is saying things you don’t like to get votes, and it is working for them, then that’s a sign you should reconsider your support. They don’t own you. A voter’s support is in constant negotiation. If you want a certain type of coalition, then voting to make such a coalition more likely is what you might want to think about.

      If you don’t want Lab to coalesce with NZF, for example, then just ‘not voting for NZF’ will not be enough.

      Just as if National voters really don’t want a L/G govt, their best bet might be (if a lab govt looks likely) voting NZF, so too left wing voters should be thinking about how they ought to vote to get what they want in parliament, and forestall what they don’t want.

      It’s not up to politicians to be sorting this shit out. It really isn’t. Though they’d like us to think so, and probably think so themselves. It’s our job. Citizens elect parliaments to get what they want.

    • The Fan Club 23.2

      the reality is that the large majority of the electorate is not aligned deeply with any party

      This simply isn’t true. Most of the voting electorate posses clear and stable partisan identities.

      Roughly, you can add the ’11 Labour vote to the ’02 National vote to find the bedrock Lab/Nat support (around 50%), and then there’s another 10% or so who are pretty stably attached to one minor party or the other, so you’re looking at 60% of the voting population who are reliably voting in one way or another.

      The number of voters who are truly “swing” voters is simply not that large.

  23. Sacha 24

    I’m looking forward to seeing Kevin Hague as Minister of Health and Julie-Anne Genter as Minster of Transport in a left government. If Labour can’t get their own shit together to be viable coalition partners then heaven help them.

    • QoT 24.1

      Julie-Anne Genter as Minster of Transport in a left government.

      *drools*

    • Murray Olsen 24.2

      And Hone Harawira as Minister of Police. It’s about time we had someone in charge who is prepared to do more than clean up the messes left by the boys in blue. From my observations, there is a lot more talent among the Green members of Parliament than there is to be found in Labour at the moment. Cunliffe is obviously very capable, but not many others spring to mind. They are the most mediocre Labour caucus in my memory. As far as ability goes, the first ACT government had far more talent, although they used it to help the dark side.

    • Pasupial 24.3

      Meteria Turei as deputy Pime Minister, Russell Norman minister for the environment.

      • Pasupial 24.3.1

        Turei as Deputy Prime Minister! I’m sure she’d do a good job as ministerial representative for “pimes” too, but I have no idea what that would involve. It was late and I’d been typing a lot over on Open Mike.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Seven reasons to be wary of waste-to-energy proposals
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz I was in Switzerland recently and discovered that they haven’t ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    16 mins ago
  • Reviewing the whitewash
    Back in 2015, then Ombudsman Beverley Wakem conducted a review of the OIA, Not a game of hide and seek. The "review" was a whitewash, which found no need for legislative change, and instead criticised the media and requesters - which destroyed Wakem's reputation, and undermined that of the Office ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 hours ago
  • You Gov MRP Poll Out
    So, You Gov's MRP poll - the weird one that tries to reflect what will happen at a constituency level and which pretty much nailed the hung parliament in 2017 - is not looking too good for Labour:
    UK #GE2019 MRP seat projection:CON: 339 (-20)LAB: 231 (+20)SNP: 41 (-2)LDEM: 15 ...
    4 hours ago
  • Climate Change: Accountability?
    We've known about climate change for over forty years now,and it has been a major political issue for twenty. And yet fossil fuel companies have kept polluting with impunity, while government have looked the other way and twiddled their thumbs and refused to do anything because "the economy", or just ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 hours ago
  • Delusional And Irrational: The Rise Of Paranoid Politics In New Zealand.
    Sheer Loopiness: Many of those expressing bemusement at the antics of these #turnardern effacers, were convinced that they were yet another expression of the National Party’s increasingly spiteful anti-government propaganda campaign. They marvelled at the oddness of the perpetrators’ mindset and questioned the common-sense of allowing the rest of New Zealand ...
    6 hours ago
  • Things to know about Whakaari/White Island
    Brad Scott, GNS Science VolcanologistThis post was originally published by GeoNet. Following the 9 December devastating eruption at Whakaari/White Island we have put together some information about the island. New Zealand’s most active volcano Whakaari/White Island is currently New Zealand’s most active volcano, it has been since an eruptive episode ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    23 hours ago
  • Status quo supports status quo
    The Justice Committee has reported back on its Inquiry into the 2017 General Election and 2016 Local Elections, with a host of recommendations about how to improve our electoral systems. Some of their recommendations are already incorporate din the Electoral Amendment Bill currently before Parliament, but there's also a recommendation ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    24 hours ago
  • The Greens abandon NeoLiberalism
    Back in 2017, in order to make themselves "electable" in the eyes of rich people who oppose everything they stand for, the Greens signed up for NeoLiberalism, adopting a restrictive set of "Budget Responsibility Rules" which basicly prevented them from using government to make things better. Now, they're finally abandoning ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • Lying about a failed war
    Since invading in 2001, the US has consistently claimed that their war in Afghanistan has been going well, even when it continued year after year after year. Of course, they were lying, and thanks to the Washington Post and the US Freedom of Information Act, we get to see just ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • Artificial Intelligence and You
    How should we think about artificial intelligence and the implications that it has for our work and leisure? There are many articles on artificial intelligence and its potential impacts on jobs, and the ethics of applications. These are important topics, but I want to focus on some less discussed aspects, ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    1 day ago
  • Statistical manipulation to get publishable results
    I love data. It’s amazing the sort of “discoveries” I can make given a data set and computer statistical package. It’s just so easy to search for relationships and test their statistical significance. Maybe relationships which ...
    1 day ago
  • More lies on the Twitter (Dan Hodges edition)
    The other big story concerning Leeds Hospital is Boris Johnson's bizzare behaviour at Leeds Hospital, where he was confronted by a journalist and challenged about a four year old boy with suspected pneumonia who was left sleeping on the floor, rather than getting  abed like a sick kid would in ...
    1 day ago
  • LabourActivistPunchedMattHancock’sSPADGate
    So, for a brief period of history, it was alleged that a protester had punched Matt Hancock's SPAD (not a euphemism; special adviser) when Hancock visited Leeds Hospital.This was reported by the likes of Robert Peston and Laura Keunssberg, as well as the less credible Guido Fawkes.  It also quickly ...
    1 day ago
  • France’s anti-Zionism is anti-liberté
    by Daphna Whitmore Last week France passed a law that equates anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. It is based on a definition of anti-Semitism that includes criticism of Israel such as: “Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 days ago
  • Another bus lockout
    Over the past year we've seen major bus problems in Hamilton and Wellington, as drivers have sought better wages and an end to the bullshit of split shifts, which basicly see them "married to the job". And now its Auckland's turn. When NZBus's drivers planned low-level strike action of not ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Climate Change: Showing us how its done
    The government has been congratulating itself over the passage of the Zero Carbon Act, which sets out long-term emissions targets. But those targets are insufficient. Meanwhile, Denmark is showing us how its done:Denmark’s parliament adopted a new climate law on Friday, committing to reach 70% below its 1990 emissions in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Public sector dysfunction should not be allowed to undermine freedom of information
    Another day, another piece of legislation with a secrecy clause. This time its the innocuous-seeming Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission Bill, which (after establishing a new body and making it subject to the OIA in three different ways) includes the rapidly-becoming-standard clauses enabling it to request information from other public ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • “This is England, this knife of Sheffield steel…”
    The state of the United Kingdom is fractured, torn up, shredded. The Empire is gone, it died a long time ago. And yet, the country is still tracking with a lead in favour of the ones who play to the ingrained, class-bound division for political gain. It is a disgrace ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    4 days ago
  • CORSIA, coming soon to an airport near you
    On 27 September, Greta Thunberg addressed a crowd of 500,000 at the School Strike for Climate in Montreal, saying: “You are a nation that is allegedly a climate leader. And Sweden is also a nation that is allegedly a climate leader. And in both cases, it means absolutely nothing. Because ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    4 days ago
  • Cloaking hate speech and fake news in the right to free expression.
    It should be obvious by now but let’s be clear: The same folk who regularly traffic in disinformation, misinformation and “fake news” are also those who most strongly claim that their freedom of expression rights are being violated when moves are made to curb hate speech (as opposed to protected ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • The Physics (and Economics, and Politics) of Wheelchairs on Planes
    Michael Schulson When Shane Burcaw flies on an airplane, he brings along a customized gel cushion, a car seat, and about 10 pieces of memory foam. The whole arsenal costs around $1,000, but for Burcaw it’s a necessity. The 27-year-old author and speaker — who, alongside his fiancée, Hannah ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    4 days ago
  • To Advance Civil Rights, Oppose Transgender Extremism
    We are very pleased to publish this submission is from Lucinda Stoan. She is a social justice activist, mother, and educator, based in Washington State in the  US.   This detailed and comprehensive source-linked overview of trans issues and what is at stake will be useful for many people, especially in ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    5 days ago
  • Faafoi should be fired
    Newshub last night reported that Broadcasting Minister Kris Faafoi had apparently promised to help out a mate with an immigration issue. While its normal for people to approach MPs for assistance in this area, when you're a Minister, the rules are different: as the Cabinet Manual says, Ministers must "at ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Adrian Orr – The Reserve Bank’s Revolutionary Governor?
    New Zealand's Underarm Banker: It bears recalling that the “independence” of the Reserve Bank Governor was for decades held up by neoliberal capitalists as the most compelling justification for passing the Reserve Bank Act. Interesting, is it not, how the ruling class’s support for the Bank’s independence lasted no longer than ...
    5 days ago
  • Driving Us Up The Poll.
    Rubbish In, Rubbish Out: Put all this together, and it’s difficult to avoid the conclusion that anyone who responds positively to a pollster’s request to “answer a few questions” is just ever-so-slightly weird. Desperately lonely? Some sort of psephological train-spotter? Political party member primed to skew the poll for or against ...
    5 days ago
  • Jordan Williams, Colin Craig podcast series announced
    “Free at last, Free at last, Thank God almighty we are free at last.” ― Martin Luther King Jr. A long and bitter court feud between former Conservative Party leader Colin Craig and Jordan Williams has been settled, with an apology and compensation from Williams. On Tuesday, Craig sent out ...
    The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
    6 days ago
  • Scientific integrity requires critical investigation – not blind acceptance
    Some people seem to want to close down any critical discussion of the current research into the relationship between water fluoride and child IQ. They appear to argue that claims made by researchers should not be open to critical review and that the claims be accepted without proper consideration ...
    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: The shameful reality
    The government has been congratulating itself over the passage of the Zero Carbon Act, which sets out long-term emissions targets. Meanwhile, Climate Action Tracker has the shameful reality: those targets are insufficient:While New Zealand is showing leadership by having passed the world’s second-ever Zero Carbon Act in November 2019, under ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • More secrecy
    The government introduced a Racing Industry Bill today. As an urban who horse racing as pointless-to-cruel, and gambling as a tax on stupidity and/or hope, this isn't normally a bill which would interest me in the slightest, beyond grumpiness at more government money for a dying industry. But there is ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Unlikely online bully, Liam Hehir
    Check. Check. One, two, three, four. Is this thing ON? Hello readers, I logged in last night (yeah, it’s been a while) to mark THE END of the landmark legal case, Jordan Williams v Colin Craig, which (gulp) reached The Supreme Court, in which New Zealand’s most-defamed man was suing the politician he ...
    The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
    6 days ago
  • The Birth Of Israel: Wrong At The Right Time.
    Before The Birth: Israel’s most fervent supporters set their clocks ticking in Biblical times. They cite the kingdoms of David and Solomon as proof that, in the words of the Exodus movie’s theme-song: “This land is mine.” The majority of Israel’s backers, however, start their clocks in 1933 – the year Adolf ...
    6 days ago
  • Hard News: Public Address Word of the Year 2019: Korero phase
    In an unreliable, strange and confusing world, Public Address is proud to present a measure of comfort and stability by annually asking everyone what words or phrases sum up the year that's been – and then giving some of them consumer goods as prizes for being clever or simply lucky.Well, ...
    6 days ago
  • Generalist to specialist
    Both my parents are pretty handy – and they seem to have the right tools for most jobs in the garage and they know how to fix practically anything. A similar story could be told about their generation’s experience in the workforce – being a generalist was not unusual and ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • A “coincidence”
    When it was revealed that NZ First had tried to enrich itself from public office via the Provoncial Growth Fund, the Prime Minister assured us that everything was OK as Shane Jones, the Minister responsible for the fund, had recused himself. Except it seems that that recusal came very late ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Member’s Day
    Today is a Member's Day, and probably the last one of the year. After the marathon of the End of Life Choice Act, most of the bills up for debate today are uncontentious. First up is the second reading of Chlöe Swarbrick's Election Access Fund Bill. This will be followed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Worse than I thought
    The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has reported back on the government's odious and tyrannical control orders bill. As expected, the fraudulent select committee process has made no significant changes (partly because they couldn't agree, but mostly because it was a stitch-up from the start, with no intention of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The cannabis bill and the referendum
    Yesterday, the government released its draft Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill, which will be put to a non-binding referendum at the next election. I'm not a drug policy expert, but Russell Brown is, and he thinks its pretty good. And pretty obviously, it will be a massive improvement on the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Hard News: The Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill: pretty good so far
    As you're probably aware, the draft bill outlining the proposed legal cannabis regime to be put to a referendum late next year was published yesterday, and has already attracted a flurry of comment. It's notable that a good deal of the comment is about proposals that aren't actually new.A minimum ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Alignment
    One of the big problems in New Zealand climate change policy is the government working at cross-purposes with itself. It wants to reduce fossil fuel use, but encourages oil and gas exploration. It wants to reduce transport emissions, but then builds enormous new roads. The problem could be avoided if ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • How climate change will affect food production and security
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz According to the United Nations, food shortages are a threat ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • More bad faith
    Last year, the government announced it was ending offshore oil exploration by no longer issuing new permits. The idea was that the industry would then die off as permits expired. Except almost immediately the government revealed its bad faith, by saying they would extend permits and alter conditions to keep ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Banning foreign money from our elections
    The government has said it will ban foreign donations to political parties and candidates, and will be introducing legislation to be passed under all-stages urgency this afternoon. While I agree with the goal, I don't see a particular case for urgency, unless the government is concerned about a flood of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Reforming the Education Acts
    The government introduced the Education and Training Bill to Parliament yesterday. Its a massive bill, which replaces both existing Education Acts, as well as various other bits of legislation (including some which are still proceeding through the House). I'll leave the serious analysis to teachers and people who actually know ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Bite-sized learning
    Amelia SharmanThere’s no one-size-fits-all when it comes to micro-credentials, those bits of bite-sized learning that can help workers stay on top of technological change.  What’s a micro-credential? While definitions vary, micro-credentials can be understood as short courses that allow people to learn new skills or have an existing competency recognised. ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • “Not The Labour Party We Once Knew.”
    All Smiles Now: Claire Szabo is taking up her presidential role after serving as the CEO of Habitat For Humanity. Which is absolutely perfect! After KiwiBuild was so comprehensively mismanaged by Phil Twyford, the party has not only elected a new president from a thoroughly respectable not-for-profit, but one who ...
    1 week ago
  • Marxist versus liberal methodology on transgender ideology/identity politics
    While much of the NZ left has transitioned to postmodern and identity politics in relation to transgender ideology, there are some very good articles about that deploy Marxist methodology in relation to this subject.  The one below is from the British marxist group Counterfire and appeared on their site here ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Book review: The Farm by Joanne Ramos
    by Daphna Whitmore At Golden Oaks, a luxurious country retreat in the Hudson Valley, pregnant women have the best care money can buy. From the organic food, personalised exercise programmes, private yoga instruction and daily massages Golden Oaks looks like a country lodge for the upper class. Set some time ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Loosening the purse strings
    When Labour was running for election in 2017, it felt it needed to demonstrate "fiscal responsibility" and signed itself up to masochistic "budget responsibility rules". It was a fool's errand: the sorts of voters who demand fiscal responsibility are also the sorts of voters who believe that labour can never ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: How to get there
    Writing in Stuff, Joel MacManus looks at what we need to do to meet the Zero Carbon Act's targets. The core of it:1. Convert 85 per cent of vehicles on the road to electric. 2. Eliminate fossil fuels from all industrial heating up to 300 degrees Celsius. 3. Double our ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • anti-vaxxers in a measles epidemic: so many ways to be untruthful
    “Anti-vaxers are a pro-death movement,” those comments from Dr Helen Petousis-Harris speaking about six more Measles related deaths in Samoa over the past twenty-four hours. “Anti-vaxers are a pro-death movement,” those comments from Dr Helen Petousis-Harris speaking about six more Measles related deaths in Samoa ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    1 week ago
  • Is Youth Vaping a Problem in New Zealand?
    Professors Janet Hoek and Richard Edwards, Emeritus Professor Phil Gendall, Jude Ball, Dr Judith McCool, Anaru Waa, Dr Becky Freeman Recent media reports have presented conflicting evidence on youth vaping in NZ. While some NZ school principals report concerns about increasing vaping on school grounds and confiscating vapes, ASH Year ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • In pursuit of “Freedom and Democracy”: Forever Wars in “America’s backyard”.
    “America the Beautiful!”, staunch defender of democracy, freedom and… a whole lot of despotic tyrants that play nice with what is called “the Washington Consensus.” America is indeed capable of immense good, but like any Nation, and most assuredly any aspirant to the mantle of Empire, great, immense evil. All ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • November ’19 – NZ blogs sitemeter ranking
    Image credit: The beginner’s guide to blogging I notice a few regulars no longer allow public access to the site counters. This may happen accidentally when the blog format is altered. If your blog is ...
    1 week ago
  • Whodunnit? Finding the mystery 1080 testing lab
    1080 is used to control pests in NZ. Its use is contested by a noisy few. A new report claims high levels of 1080 in rats washed up on a beach. Flora and Fauna of Aotearoa (F&F) won’t name the laboratory that did their testing. It has sparked a hunt ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    1 week ago
  • Authoritarian Friends, Democratic Enemies.
    What Kind Of Empire? The thing for Kiwis to decide is what kind of empire they want to belong to. The kind that, while offering its own citizens democratic rights, demands absolute obedience from its “friends”? Or, the kind that, while authoritarian at home, takes a relaxed attitude to the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Boris Johnson Goes Down
    It hasn't been a good week for the Conservatives, pollwise.  All major recent polls are showing their lead shrinking.Comparing each pollster's current (between 29/11 and 22/11) and previous most recent poll.Com Res - Conservative lead down 3 points.You Gov - Conservative lead down 1 point.Kantar - Conservative lead down 4 ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Interesting
    Within quick succession, Countdown maths wizard and twitterer Rachel Riley, alleged comedian David Baddiel and prominent lawyer Andrew Julius have all expressed very similar opinions / ideas:
    These #3billboards are going round London today, organised by ex-Labour people, horrified by what their party has become. Their principles haven’t changed, they’re ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Damn the Polls
    So, there have been a bunch of bad polls out for Labour, and even the Leftie's friend, Survation, have recently given the Conservatives a rip-snorting 11% lead.  You Gov's much vaunted MRP poll - which pretty much nailed the result in 2015 - is currently predicting a comfortable majority for ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Europe declares an emergency
    The European Parliament has voted overwhelmingly to declare a climate emergency:The European parliament has declared a global “climate and environmental emergency” as it urged all EU countries to commit to net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. The vote came as scientists warned that the world may have already crossed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • A Bi-Partisan Commitment To X-ing “P”.
    Pure Fear: Worse than Heroin, this drug’s addictive power was terrifying. People under its influence didn’t drift off to Elysium. Nor did it persuade inadequate individuals that they could conquer the world. No, this drug – pure crystal methamphetamine, “P” for short – unlocked the gates of Hell itself. It ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Advice about measles: when ignorance is definitely not a virtue
    As the rate of measles infection, and of deaths, continues to climb in Samoa, antivaccination activists infectious disease proponents seem intent on doubling down on their claims about vaccination. (Check pretty much any news-media FB post about measles & you’ll see exactly what I mean.) Unfortunately, some of them have ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    2 weeks ago
  • Samoa’s devastating measles epidemic – why and how bad?
    Samoa are experiencing a devastating measles epidemic. It is possible that 2-3% of the population will ultimately be infected by the time it is over. Hopefully the mass immunisation campaign currently under way can mitigate some of this, for many it is too late. The first question many people ask ...
    SciBlogsBy Helen Petousis Harris
    2 weeks ago
  • “It’s basic rights we are defending”: the Meghan Murphy interview
    Meghan Murphy is a Canadian writer and journalist She runs the Feminist Current website which she founded in 2012.  She was a keynote speaker for the Feminism2020 conference in Wellington this month. When Massey University cancelled the original venue booking Feminism2020 was hosted in Parliament by MP David Seymour. Meghan ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • A week of protests in Colombia
    Text and photos by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh Colombia has lived through one week of protests against the economic measures taken by president Duque. What looked like a protest that would fizzle out after its first day on November 21st is still going strong. Part of the reason for the continuance ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Anti-neutrinos–When you are your own opposite
    Around a million billion pass through you each second, almost all originating from our sun, but few of them are likely to interact with you enroute. I was reading in a physics magazine earlier in the week about the nature of neutrinos. These are extremely numerous elementary particles, but only ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    2 weeks ago
  • Exoplanets, life, and the danger of a single study
    By Pallab Ghosh There’s value in covering new research advances, even when the underlying science is unsettled. But there are also risks. The recent announcement that scientists discovered water on the planet K2-18b, 110 light years away, prompted a media swoon. News stories, including a piece written by me, billed ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • The Intersex Continuum
    I wrote this review a couple of years ago when I was still in the process of getting my head around the politics of transgenderism, and specifically the claim that intersex conditions lend support to the notion that sex is ‘socially constructed’. Since writing this review I have come across ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Leaving us with the bill
    Two weeks ago, Malaysian-owned oil company Tamarind declared it was insolvent and went into administration after a failed offshore drilling campaign. Tamarind apparently specialises in buying oil fields at the end of their life and trying to squeeze out the last few drops of pollution. But part of their scam ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • How much does flying contribute to climate change?
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz How much does our use of air travel contribute to the ...
    SciBlogsBy Shaun Hendy
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: The task before us
    Two weeks ago, the Zero Carbon Act became law. Right this moment, the Climate Change Commisison will be working on its initial budgets for 2022-25 and 2026-2030, and the UN has just given them a very clear steer:Countries must make an unprecedented effort to cut their levels of greenhouse gases ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Among my favourite asteroids: (2309) Mr. Spock
    Minor planet/asteroid (2309) Mr. Spock is named not for the character in Star Trek, but for a cat that was itself imperturbable, logical, intelligent and had pointed ears In a preceding blog post I introduced one of my favourite asteroids, (2472) Bradman, and also mentioned (6581) Sobers amongst a few ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    2 weeks ago
  • Measles deaths and antivax misinformation
    Today the death toll from measles in Samoa rose to 32. All but four of the dead were less than 5 years old. Absolutely terrible, heartbreaking, news. That statistic alone should be enough to give the lie to the common claim by antivaccination activists plague enthusiasts that “measles is a ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    2 weeks ago
  • Colombia: the state murder of Dilan Cruz
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh It is late here in Bogotá, almost 11.30pm on Monday the 25th of November as I write this. The day began full of hope with yet more massive marches throughout the country, a mix of the International Day of Non-Violence Against Women and the National Strike. ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Anti-fluoride propagandists appear not to read the articles they promote
    Anti-fluoride activists are rubbing their hands in glee over what they claim is “yet another study” showing fluoride harms the brains of children. But their promotion relies on IQ relationships which the paper’s authors acknowledge disappearing when outliers or other factors are considered. And they completely ignore other relationships ...
    2 weeks ago
  • The rise and collapse of classical political economy
    The feature below is the conclusion of A History of Economic Thought, whose author was a leading Marxist economist in Russia in the early 20th century, Isaac Ilyich Rubin.  The book arose from a course he ran at Moscow University following the Russian Revolution.  First published in Russian in 1929, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

  • New Zealand’s National Statement to COP25
    E ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā iwi, e ngā rau rangatira mā. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa. Señora Presidenta, Excellencies, Delegates. International action A common thread that runs through the Paris Agreement is the commitment we have made to each other to do what we can to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    43 mins ago
  • Strong economy, careful spending gives $12bn of surpluses
    The Government is forecast to run $12 billion worth of surpluses across the four years to 2023/24 as the economy continues to grow. The surpluses will help fund day-to-day capital requirements each year. These include fixing leaky hospitals, building new classrooms to cover population growth and take pressure off class ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Priorities for 2020 Wellbeing Budget outlined
    Budget 2020 will continue the Coalition Government’s focus on tackling the long-term challenges facing New Zealand while also investing to future-proof the economy. When the Government took office in 2017 it was left with crumbling infrastructure, severe underinvestment in public services, degraded rivers and lakes, a housing crisis and rising ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • $12 billion in extra infrastructure investment
    The Government is lifting capital investment to the highest level in more than 20 years as it takes the next step to future-proof New Zealand. Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced $12 billion of new investment, with $8 billion for specific capital projects and $4 billion to be added to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Minister welcomes data-rich coastline mapping tool
    The Minister responsible for the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act 2011 (te Takutai Moana Act 2011), Andrew Little has welcomed the launch of an online geospatial tool that provides data-rich, dynamic coastline maps that will significantly boost research and evidence-gathering under the Act. Te Kete Kōrero a Te ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Chief Victims Advisor reappointed for a further two years
    The Chief Victims Advisor to Government Dr Kim McGregor, QSO, has been reappointed in her role for a further two years. Dr McGregor has held the role since it was established in November 2015. She provides independent advice to government on how to improve the criminal justice system for victims. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • New Zealand tsunami monitoring and detection system to be established
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Civil Defence Minister Peeni Henare have today announced the deployment of a network of DART (Deep-ocean Assessment and Reporting of Tsunami) buoys. “New Zealand and the Pacific region are particularly vulnerable to natural disasters. It is vital we have adequate warning systems in place,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • DART Buoys Announcement
    DART Buoys Announcement Aotea Wharf, 9.30am 11 December 2019   Acknowledgements Acknowledgements to Minister for Civil Defence Hon Peeni Henare also here today. White Island It is with regret that this event shadows the tragic natural disaster two days ago. The volcanic eruptions on White Island have claimed 5 lives, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Final steps for racing industry reform
    Racing Minister Winston Peters has welcomed the first reading of the Racing Industry Bill in parliament today. This is the second of two Bills that have been introduced this year to revitalise New Zealand’s racing industry. “Our domestic racing industry has been in serious decline.  The Government is committed to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago
  • Funding to promote New Zealand Sign Language initiatives
    Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni, is pleased to announce that $291,321 is to be awarded to national and local community initiatives to maintain and promote the use of New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL). “New Zealand is one of the few countries  in the world where Sign Language is an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • How New Zealand defines and recognises veterans
    Minister for Veterans Ron Mark has announced today the Coalition Government’s initial response to work completed by the independent statutory body, the Veterans’ Advisory Board. “When Professor Ron Paterson completed his review of the Veterans’ Support Act in 2018, he made a number of recommendations, including one which I referred ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government to fund lion’s share of Ohakea water scheme
    The Government will fund the bulk of the cost of a rural water supply for the Ohakea community affected by PFAS contamination, Environment Minister David Parker announced today at a meeting of local residents. This new water scheme will provide a reliable and clean source of drinking water to the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Prime Minister statement on White Island eruption
    I have had the opportunity to be briefed on the details of the volcanic eruption of Whakaari/White Island, off the coast of Whakatane in the Bay of Plenty.  The eruption happened at 2.11pm today.  It continues to be an evolving situation.  We know that there were a number of tourists ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Govt funds $100k for weather-hit communities
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare have today confirmed initial Government support of $100,000 for communities affected by the severe weather that swept across the South Island and lower North Island over the weekend. The contribution will be made to Mayoral relief funds across the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Death of NZ High Commissioner to Cook Islands
    New Zealand's High Commissioner to the Cook Islands, Tessa Temata, died in Palmerston North over the weekend, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said today. Ms Temata, 52, had recently returned to New Zealand for medical treatment. "On behalf of the Government and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, we extend ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Wellington rail upgrade full steam ahead
    Transport Minister Phil Twyford today announced construction is underway on Wellington commuter rail upgrades which will mean more frequent services and fewer breakdowns. The upgrades include converting the Trentham to Upper Hutt single track section to a double track, with a new signalling system, upgraded stations and level crossings, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Defence Climate Change Implementation Plan released
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark and Minister for Climate Change James Shaw have announced the release of a Defence Climate Change Implementation Work Plan, titled Responding to the Climate Crisis: An Implementation Plan.  The plan sets out a series of recommendations based on the 2018 New Zealand Defence Assessment, The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Govt releases funding to support South Canterbury
    A medium-scale adverse event has been declared for the South Canterbury district, which will see up to $50,000 in funding made available to support farming communities which have been significantly affected by recent heavy rain and flooding in the area, says Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. “Two weeks of solid rain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech at launch of Rethinking Plastics Report
    Thank you Professor Juliet Gerrard and your team for the comprehensive and extremely helpful report and recommendations. Thank you too to all the stakeholders and interested parties who have contributed ideas and thinking to it. “Making best practice, standard practice” is a great framework for change and the action plan ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Govt pledges next steps on plastic waste
    The Government will phase out more single-use plastics following the success of its single-use plastic bag ban earlier this year and the release today of a pivotal report for dealing with waste. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has welcomed the Rethinking Plastics in Aotearoa New Zealandreport, released by her Chief Science Advisor ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • International student enrolments grow in universities and the regions
    International education continues to thrive as the Government focuses on quality over quantity, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. The tuition revenue from international education increased to $1.16 billion last year with the average tuition fee per student increasing by $960. The total number of international students enrolled in New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech to Government Economics Network 2019 Conference
    I want to talk about one of the most pressing issues in our national life: the housing crisis and the poor performance of our cities. The argument I want to make to you is that generations of urban land use policy have lacked a decent grounding in economics. The consequences ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • DHB leadership renewed and strengthened
    Health Minister Dr David Clark says new appointments to DHBs represent a significant changing of the guard, with 13 new chairs including four Māori chairs. Today 76 appointments have been announced to complement elected board members, as well as eight elected members appointed as either chair or deputy chair.  Four ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Tabuteau to advance New Zealand’s trade and political interests with European partners
    Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs, Fletcher Tabuteau, is travelling to Germany, Poland, Austria, and Spain next week to bolster New Zealand’s political and trade relationships in Europe. While in Spain, Mr Tabuteau will represent New Zealand at the 14th Asia-Europe (ASEM) Foreign Ministers’ Meeting in Madrid. “New Zealand strongly supports ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Statement from the Prime Minister on Kris Faafoi
    “I’ve spoken to Minister Faafoi, who has apologised for his poor handling of this issue,” Jacinda Ardern said. “I have confidence in Kris as a hardworking and effective Minister, but this should have been dealt with in a much clearer manner, and I’ve made my views on that very clear ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Tonga-New Zealand Joint Ministerial Forum
    Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters met with Tongan Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pohiva Tu'i'onetoa in Wellington today. The pair signed a Statement of Partnership setting out joint priorities for cooperation out to 2023.  “We welcomed Prime Minister Tu'i'onetoa on his first visit to New Zealand as Prime Minister. Tonga ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Shooting in Kurow
    The Minister of Police Stuart Nash says his sympathies are with the family of a man who died after being shot by Police in Kurow. “Initial reports are that Police were called by a family member to help the man who was threatening to harm himself,” Mr Nash says. “However ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government delivers funding boost for ethnic communities
    Ethnic communities will be able to plan and deliver more community initiatives thanks to an increase in Government funding, Minister for Ethnic Communities Hon Jenny Salesa said today. “Ensuring Aotearoa New Zealand is a place we can all be proud to call home has been a key priority of our ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Govt supports Southland farmers in sustainability
    Healthier waterways, better productivity and farmer wellbeing are front and centre in a new project involving more than 1000 Southland farmers and growers. Minister of Agriculture Damien O’Connor today announced that the Thriving Southland Change and Innovation Project is the first region-wide extension programme supported by the $229 million Sustainable ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Flood of support for Top of the South catchment
    Work to look after nature and restore freshwater quality in Te Hoiere/Pelorus River catchment is getting a significant boost, thanks to new Government funding support Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage announced in Canvastown today. “Every New Zealander should be able to swim in their local river without getting sick, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Eight Queen’s Counsel appointed under new criterion
    Eight Queen’s Counsel have been appointed under a process that includes the new criterion of a commitment to improving access to justice, Attorney-General David Parker announced today. “The new criterion was included this year. It emphasises that excellence and leadership in the profession can be seen through a wider, community ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Major expansion for Wellington’s Onslow College
    Onslow College in Wellington will get 20 new classrooms for more than 400 students, Education Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. The much-needed investment will relieve growth pressure the school has been experiencing for some time. Seven existing classrooms which have deteriorated over time will also be replaced, bringing the total ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Talented young Kiwis awarded PM’s Scholarships to Asia and Latin America
    More than 250 young New Zealanders will add international experience to their education, thanks to the latest Prime Minister’s Scholarships for Asia (PMSA) and Latin America (PMSLA), Education Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. This round of scholarships supports 252 recent graduates or current students to undertake study, research or internships ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government to improve competitiveness and transparency in the retail fuel market
    Consumers will benefit from a more competitive, transparent retail fuel market as a result of changes the Government will be making in response to the findings of the Commerce Commission’s study of the fuel sector. “We accept the Commission’s findings and, as the Prime Minister has said, we’re ready to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • More cancer medicines for more people
    Five new cancer medicines have now been funded this year, meaning thousands of people have more treatment options PHARMAC has today announced that it has approved two new medicines for funding – fulvestrant for breast cancer and olaparib for ovarian cancer. This follows earlier decisions on advanced lung cancer treatment alectinib, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government acts to sort out electoral ‘coin toss’ problem
    The Minister of Local Government, Hon Nanaia Mahuta says the Government will consider making changes to local electoral legislation before the 2022 elections to fix the problems that have arisen where elections are settled by a coin toss.  The Minister says the recount process in the Murupara- Galatea ward at ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ to Join IMO Convention to Reduce Ship Emissions
    New Zealand will sign up to new international maritime regulations to reduce ship emissions and lift air quality around ports and harbours, Associate Transport Minister Julie Anne Genter announced today. Subject to completion of the Parliamentary treaty examination process, New Zealand will sign up to Annex VI of MARPOL, an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Bill to empower urban development projects
    New legislation to transform our urban areas and create sustainable, inclusive and thriving communities will tomorrow be introduced to Parliament, Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford said. “The Urban Development Bill gives Kāinga Ora-Homes and Communities the tools it needs to partner with councils, communities, mana whenua and private developers to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Early Learning Action Plan to kickstart long term change
    Today’s launch of He taonga te Tamaiti: Every child a taonga: The Early Learning Action Plan 2019-2029 provides the foundation for long-lasting changes to early learning, Education Minister Chris Hipkins says.   “Early learning will be one of the Government’s top education priorities going into 2020,” Chris Hipkins said.   ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Climate change lens on major Government decisions
    Major decisions made by the Government will now be considered under a climate change lens, Minister for Climate Change James Shaw announced today. “Cabinet routinely considers the effects of its decisions on human rights, the Treaty of Waitangi, rural communities, the disability community, and gender – now climate change will ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago