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Jarrod Gilbert on National’s Lies

Written By: - Date published: 3:09 pm, September 29th, 2015 - 26 comments
Categories: same old national - Tags: ,

There’s a hard-hitting piece in the Herald today – from Jarrod Gilbert on how National has lied to the country’s face and got away with it.

Tolley claimed before the election that 34% of drug offences and 25% of homicides were by a small group of gang members – and here was National’s policy response to them.

But Gilbert knew that was wrong, and last year got the real stats – 4% for drugs, 0% for homicides.  National dodged the response, and where forced blamed the police for lack of clarity.  But the police advice was crystal clear.  National quietly changed their cabinet papers to reflect reality, but there still has never been any public admission of muck-up from National, and as those stats were put out to fanfare, common belief will be that they are true.

And so, as Gilbert puts it:

Although I can prove the gang figures were an utter nonsense, two questions remain: was the Government unaware the data was faulty or did it use the data to fool the public? In other words, did we elect idiots or did we elect smart people who have treated us like idiots? The only thing we know for certain is that we elected people who will not reveal which is which. Either way we should judge them accordingly.

Given that this is one area I know well and can prove political manipulation, I wring my hands pondering how much other information is being used to create false impressions about important issues. This is hardly a situation that will comfort those who appreciate honest and open democracy.

Worth a read.


lprent: Colin James apparently has a similar theme in “Will Key ‘man up’ on what counts for kids” that will be in his Otago Daily Times column today.

It details the discrepancy between what John Key says he wants his legacy to be for disadvantaged kids, and the pitiful efforts that he and his ministers actually do.

I read it in email. Can’t see it online yet. If anyone has a link…

26 comments on “Jarrod Gilbert on National’s Lies ”

  1. James 1

    … did we elect smart people who have treated us like idiots?


    • McFlock 1.1

      Maybe we elected idiots who treat us like idiots?

      • NZJester 1.1.1

        I would say idiots controlled by smart people treating us like idiots.
        The National Party MPs dance on the stings of their real puppeteers.
        It is the hidden puppeteers with the help of their tame MSM that help the idiots hide the real facts.
        From time to time you get a glimpse like this at just how much miss information this government is putting out.

        • Draco T Bastard


          National are corrupt but the real problem lies in who’s pulling their strings.

          • NZJester

            Even though there are meant to be limits on how much can be given to a party in anonymous donations the National party seams to have a very large amount of anonymous donations made to them. They seam to know all the loopholes in the anonymous donation laws. Those who are filling the returns saying they are anonymous might be kept in the dark so that the returns are (cough) legal but I doubt that everyone in the party is not aware who is giving them all those donations. That amount of money would not be given unless someone wants something somewhere.

    • savenz 1.2

      Natz are idiot puppets run and managed by smart but unethical people.

      They use MSM who are increasingly run by idiots with idiot news from their cross brands and advertisers (today’s selection from Granddaddy Herald) “A Simpsons character is about to come out”, “Carter set to be richest man in rugby” and “Man admits killing family’s puppy’ “Sneaky tactics revealed on The Block” “Mixed reaction to Smith’s Spectre song” “Wedding bells for Paul Henry’s former co-host”.

      And they wonder why a/ ratings are declining in the MSM news and b/ why Kiwis are so uninformed.

    • Ffloyd 1.3

      Try *cunning*

  2. esoteric pineapples 2

    Idiots don’t like being called idiots so will probably continue to support this government to prove they are not idiots

    • tracey 2.1

      Pineapples, I think that is where we were at a few months ago. Some folks who supported this government started to realise maybe they were being made fools of. They then defend their position harder cos, as you say, being a fool is not a pleasant place tobe… I think we are at the point where some are now constructing their reasons for NOT wanting to support anymore which don’t make them look like they were wrong. I expect that process to speed up over the next 12 months.

      In 2008 Labour ran a campaign base don trust. They were right but the machine against them was effective with its smokescreens. We couldn’t and can’t trust National. After 7 years we now have proof in the mountains of lies and deceptions they have spoken… Gilbert cottoned on to just ONE in the Herald yesterday…

  3. tc 3

    One of many lies all endorsed by an msm who never ever call them on it.

    Fiscally neutral tax cuts anybody?

  4. dv 4

    So how the hell are they (Nats) going to be able to work out what the Big Data results they collecting will mean!!!!

  5. Tracey 5

    BM is still trying to find quotes where Key has admitted he has made a “mistake” to back up BM’s notin that Key does this and this is why he changes his mind.

    Here is a clear mistake but no “I made a mistake” says Ms Tolley.

    I remember when D J Cameron was beholden to New Zealand Cricket for Press Releases and so rarely criticised them… then he retired, and wrote occasionally for the Herald, suddenly he was critiquing NZC.

    Perhaps those on the way out have decided there’s nothing left to lose?

  6. Keith 6

    Exactly like the huge drop in reported crime that is a textbook mirage, an illusion that is all the more obvious because of sizeable cuts to the police budget since National got in. I wish to God the opposition would get off their arses and pick up on this but thus far its all too hard!

    And just like the TPPA that we have all been kept in the dark over because, well they can and it suits their agenda but who knows why they want to do this and who is pulling the strings?

    Or like any other statisic theis government uses, be it unemployment or GDP or whatever or the OIA requests they refuse to comply with…….

  7. Nick Morris 7

    We elected idiots who treat us like smart people. (When we realise that the gangs are causing all the crime in the country, we will understand what to do: elect the Nats and arm the cops).

    Of course being idiots, the bar on their assessment of “smart” isn’t very high.

    This is a fascinating statistical misrepresentation worthy of closer scrutiny. Where was the lie born, who was the midwife and who adopted it out to the Nats? And where is the political Planned Parenthood of the press when you need them.

    The trouble is that although there is a plurality of sources of information on-line these days, those information organs are under-resourced, ill-informed and entirely lacking in that fearless constitutional responsibility, so long trumpeted by voices from the “Fourth Estate” to justify their special rights in a modern democracy.

    Without the compensatory informative role of the press, we are just left with the right to say anything to anyone as long as it makes money for the individual medium. In this Brave New World the “without fear or favour” only refers to a right to lie, to distort, to defame, to misrepresent just as long as you are the side of the successful power-brokers, it confirms the prejudices of, and gets a”like” from, your readers/listeners/viewers and, of course, you get away with it.

    Why wouldn’t you get away with it, though? No-one is paying attention. So when I avow 93% of Muslims have at least considered being a suicide bomber, or 67% of beneficiaries don’t want a job, or that 71% of solo-mothers plan on having another child to keep the gravy train rolling, or that 78% of National supporters test below 20% of the national averages for empathy, somehow the lie that fits our bias can appear truer than anything that is actually true. As long as our credulousness is fed self-serving nonsense we will continue to construct a world view that is far more credible than reliable.

    The trouble is that even if we were presented with a wholly trustworthy news organ, how would we tell the difference?

  8. NZJester 8

    The medium and small sized business owners who voted National are the biggest idiots. National has striped away the buying power and wages from the people they rely on to buy their goods. Those tax breaks they got from National are tiny compared to the money they have lost from the loss in business they have suffered. Medium and small size business flourish better under Labour when more people have money in their pockets to spend. They also loose more money to crime as that tends to always go up under national. Labour looses traction in reducing crime when they get into power as once involved in crime it is hard to get people back out of it again.

    • weston 8.1

      it would be hard to discount the effect BIG business has had on small business also. The warehouse bunnings mega 10 etc etc etc to an extent weve all been eating a corrosive corporate pie having been marketed to us as a consumers nirvana of hitherto unequalled cost saving bla bla bla you can find everything you need under the same roof .Yeah right in reality this american idea is fucking us and especially small business any saving we might make is in effect gobbled up entirely by the loss of brain cells a dumbed down clone of america here we come.

      • tracey 8.1.1

        Tindall is now giving back some of his millions to those wanting to do “projects” but on one argument he created the need for the projects with his cut price Chinese, Indonesian import goods. And while a $25 pair of shoes may seem a God send, they don’t last long til you need the next pair… BUT all employers get a day off for their birthday!

      • NZJester 8.1.2

        Most of those big business are starting to hurt under National to as National policies are reducing their cash flow also. The money bleeding out of this country to overseas interests by Nationals policies is making it way up the chain to them. The firm foundation that New Zealand business used to have is being undermined by National and if it is not fix soon everything will fall into a big sinkhole. The only ones making good profits are those supplying essential services.

  9. RedLogix 9

    What buggers me is not that National lie. I expect that of them.

    It’s that they lie knowing full well there will be no consequence.

    • tracey 9.1


      I sometimes wonder if they actually laugh at how easy it is to lie?

      • mac1 9.1.1

        tracey, I did a little reading yesterday about pathological liars and this quote would support your wondering.

        “They also tell truths in ways that give incorrect perspectives. In other words, they tell the truth in a misleading way, which causes people to view things in an incorrect fashion. Such individuals enjoy and get much gratification from keeping you confused and believing their stories. It is watching the victim run through the maze of confusion that gives gratification to some liars.”


        • tracey


          and in time they repeat the lies so much they can tell them sincerely cos they actually now believe they are true. That’s my experience from a few Court cases anyway.

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