John Key lies about staying out of the flag debate

54 comments on “John Key lies about staying out of the flag debate ”

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1. Ffloyd 1

   4 March 2016 at 9:23 am

   Somewhere in China there is probably a stockpile of the Lockwood flag, all ready to go at a tweet from Key. Such would be his assumption that the change of flag is a done deal because he has decreed it as so.
   • mac1 1.1

     4 March 2016 at 1:51 pm

     They’d be destined to be remaindered as tea towels throughout the street markets of the world, Ffloyd, alongside the t-shirts with the random English words, the fake Lacoste shirts and hand bags.

     Maybe even a large one could used as the ground sheet by these street merchants of fake corporate glitzia, to bundle up the goods, and run, with the approach of the polizia.

     Let’s just vote for the current flag. Then, the day after results are declared ask John Key and his sycophantic followers where their patriotic lapel badge is. First question on the agenda- Where’s the lapel badge, John?

     Let him wear it as a badge of the people’s voice. Just as victorious Roman generals riding their chariot in a Triumph had the auriga, a slave, whisper in their ear “Memento homo” (“Remember you are just a man”), so Key should have as a reminder of his hubris a lapel badge of the current flag.
2. Jones 2

   4 March 2016 at 9:32 am

   *Sigh* is right. But hey… everyone has their bad day.
3. Hami Shearlie 3

   4 March 2016 at 9:38 am

   That ponytail flag is way more classy looking than the fern one! Just goes to show how last minute and cobbled together Lockwood’s flag really is! From what I hear, flag specialists offered their services to the flag consideration panel and were REJECTED!! They may have dared to suggest a flag without the fern, and “we couldn’t go against Jonkey’s wishes could we, he’s paying a bunch of us totally unprofessional big-noters a mint of money for doing his bidding! “
4. Anne 4

   4 March 2016 at 9:48 am

   That it didn’t last could be indicative of his/their desperation they are going to lose the flag vote. It strikes me as ‘clutching at straws’ when he mentions Rio. I doubt anyone in the country has given much thought to “Rio”.

   Can’t help being suspicious about the layout of the two flag options on the ballot paper. I assumed the current flag would have the top spot because its the official flag and the ‘pretender’ would have the second spot. But no, the pretender gets the prime spot. Accident? Or did a “hint” filter through… to give the ‘pretender’ the top spot?

   Why couldn’t they have had both designs side by side so neither had an advantage?
   • Chooky 4.1

     4 March 2016 at 9:49 am

     +100…he is desperate alright
   • Murray Simmonds 4.2

     4 March 2016 at 1:33 pm

     Haven’t seen the ballot paper yet, but, as Anne notes . . . “Why couldn’t they have had both designs side by side so neither had an advantage?”

     Further than that, my understanding of proper process is that, not only should the two flags be printed side by side, but on half of the papers the existing flag should be printed on the left and on the other half it should be printed on the right.

     That’s pretty standard randomisation to avoid positional bias.

     If i remember rightly . . . . er, I mean “correctly”,, the positions of the original set of fern/Koru flags were randomised in their positions across the ballot papers.

     But then this is a one-eyed, rigged process of course, like pretty much everything that our PM goes anywhere near. So we get what he wants.

     But as I said,, our papers haven’t arrived yet, so I may be speaking thru a hole in my head. . . .

     Apart from that positional bias on my part, I do LOVE the ponytail flag shown in the above post.
     • Puddleglum 4.2.1

       4 March 2016 at 3:03 pm

       I’ve received my voting information.

       If you think the positioning of the flags on the voting paper shows bias then you’ll love the short write-up each flag gets in the ‘information’ brochure.

       The Silver Fern flag glows with descriptive words like ‘proudly worn’, ‘New Zealand icon’, ‘Aotearoa’, ‘one people’, ‘multicultural society’, ‘generations for over 160 years’, ‘guided early settlers to our islands and represents our location’. There’s barely an emotional, patriotic or liberal sentiment whose box has been left unchecked.

       Meanwhile, the current flag is blandly introduced with the words ‘The royal blue background has come to represent the blue sea and sky’, ‘New Zealand’s location’ (not ‘Aotearoa’, not ‘our location’), ‘New Zealand’s historical foundations as a former British colony and dominion’.

       The former description is emotive, appeals to identity and patriotism, peace, unity, etc., etc. while the latter sounds like ‘Well, if you really want to know about it (but I’m not sure why you would), here goes …’

       Either a clever and deliberate juxtaposition of discursive styles or a stroke of exceptionally good luck for the flag change brigade.
       • cogito 4.2.1.1

         4 March 2016 at 4:26 pm

         The integrity and impartiality of our democratic process has been polluted and manipulated at every stage to ensure Key’s predetermined outcome.

         And that is scary.
   • cogito 4.3

     4 March 2016 at 3:45 pm

     ” I assumed the current flag would have the top spot because its the official flag and the ‘pretender’ would have the second spot”

     +1000%

     I said exactly the same thing yesterday about the ballot paper. Blatant manipulation.

     If after all the dirty tricks, tacky endorsements, varied threats and endless resources being thrown at it, the tea towel loses, it will be a true victory of the people over the propagandists. And boy, will that feel good! Kiwis finally not behaving like mindless Key-led sheep.
   • Ffloyd 4.4

     4 March 2016 at 4:39 pm

     Who is actually doing the counting of the votes? We are about to send our’s off but we are wondering how to be absolutely certain that they will be counted. There is no indication of who the votes come from and no way of receipting someone’s vote. It’s just a piece of paper with a tick on it. Who’s to say ALL votes for current flag will be counted? Votes could be thrown away and no one would be any the wiser.
     • cogito 4.4.1

       4 March 2016 at 4:58 pm

       Good point, and a sad reflection of how our country has changed.
     • Anne 4.4.2

       4 March 2016 at 5:09 pm

       That’s an excellent point Ffloyd. There should be scrutineers observing the vote counting from both sides of the flag debate. That is what happens in general elections. I think its worth an Opposition party politician checking if scrutineers have been appointed. Winston Peters would be the obvious choice.
     • Sabine 4.4.3

       4 March 2016 at 5:22 pm

       take a pic, and the if shit hit the fan, people can post their pics on face book to show how they voted.

       why not. really, and it was Stalin who said that it matters not who votes. It matters who counts the votes.
     • mosa 4.4.4

       5 March 2016 at 11:12 am

       Yeah vote tampering ,i would never believe it possible in corrupt free NZ
       But under this administration anything is possible.
   • DS 4.5

     5 March 2016 at 12:18 am

     For comparison, in 1993 during the MMP Referendum, FPP was the top box on the basis that it was the current system (hence the scare campaign of “tick the top box – reject MMP”).
     • Anne 4.5.1

       5 March 2016 at 8:46 am

       … in 1993 during the MMP Referendum, FPP was the top box on the basis that it was the current system

       That leaves me in little doubt then that pressure was brought to bear on the Electoral Commission (Office) or… the Electoral Office is happy to do National governments’ bidding. It was the National Party and their acolytes who fought hard to keep FPP because there was a huge built-in bias towards them. Think 1978 and 1981 – on both occasions Labour won the majority vote but National won the election!

       If the current flag wins then I will be socking it to the bastards at every available opportunity. They deserve nothing less.
   • Bernie 4.6

     5 March 2016 at 7:00 am

     The shitty alternative will have got the top spot because of the corrupt fuckers that printed the ballot papers not sure where I read it but sachi and sachi have got something to do with it or a sub company after the adult company didn’t get it the same with the Scottish referendum they did all the advert and promoting of that.
5. One Two 5

   4 March 2016 at 10:28 am

   The only way to be certain that the current flag will remain, is to vote

   A landslide can’t result can’t be reversed during the counting process

   Suspicion of a ‘rigged’ result, should be something that all who do not wish to have change the way it has been handled, have in their mind

   Get out and vote is the only way to mitigate the ‘rigging’
   • Grantoc 5.1

     4 March 2016 at 1:38 pm

     Thanks for the reminder to vote One Two; I’ll be voting for the new flag.
     • Bob 5.1.1

       4 March 2016 at 2:30 pm

       +1
6. Newbie 6

   4 March 2016 at 10:39 am

   The ponytail flag gave me a good laugh, thanks for that.
7. Lanthanide 7

   4 March 2016 at 11:09 am

   Here’s another:

   http://giphy.com/gifs/3ornkavEiQvpgR60Wk
   • Grindlebottom 7.1

     4 March 2016 at 11:21 am

     lol 😀
   • BLiP 7.2

     4 March 2016 at 11:39 am

     ‘

     Hahahaha . . . classic.
8. Redbaiter 8

   4 March 2016 at 11:19 am

   I don’t like Key for various reasons but I don’t see how even an objective person could fail to notice the longevity of his deceit on the flag issue.

   Right from the start, the charter written to outline the process said there “should not ever be any presumption of change made by the govt”.

   These are fine words, and commit the govt in the public’s eyes to a completely objective process.

   However, as time has gone by we have seen this commitment abused time and time again, and Key in particular has done so without turning a hair.

   These words were included in the charter just to con us. Just to fool us as silly gullible peons while Key and his tribe of “we know betters” went ahead and lied and deceived and cheated and treated the public with utter contempt.

   Key did the same thing in the 2008 election, turning his back on almost every promise he made to supporters.

   Other people keep telling me they like Key because he’s a straight up Kiwi guy. I’ve never seen him this way. He’s always seemed a slipper and a slider to me, and his loud mouthed attempts to be smart in parliament rather than offer any substantive debate confirm it to me.

   His sly deceptive behaviour during the flag debate is an emphatic reminder of what a hollow man he really is.

   Flag change- the video that exposes John Key as a watery eyed charlatan
   • cogito 8.1

     4 March 2016 at 4:07 pm

     You ever met a moneyman who tells the truth?

     The Good Book says: “For the love of money is the root of all evil….”

     Key certainly proves the point, day in day out.
9. TC 9

   4 March 2016 at 11:44 am

   Its got to the stage where key telling the truth is the exception.

   He seems to deceive, divert, diffuse and outright lie most of the time now with flag, tppa, waitangi day being recent high profile sagas.

   Maybe he is warming up for the prominent nz identity being revealed with a dry run using his vanity flag distraction circus roadshow
10. repateet 10

    4 March 2016 at 12:18 pm

    If John Key says there is no New Zealand flag available as a lapel pin he is ignorant or a liar.

    He is already known for those qualities of course but this is another example.
11. slumbergod 11

    4 March 2016 at 12:27 pm

    He drips lies so often I just don’t understand why his sheeple supporters still love him. Are they really *that* fucking stupid?
    • Anne 11.1

      4 March 2016 at 12:44 pm

      Yes. Or they don’t care.
    • Kevin 11.2

      4 March 2016 at 12:45 pm

      As long as their house valuation continues to go up…
      • Halfcrown 11.2.1

        4 March 2016 at 7:32 pm

        “As long as their house valuation continues to go up…”

        Agree there, as I have said before many a time, as long as the two bob millionaires “think” they are some form of “Later day capitalist” , with their 90% mortgages and a SUV on revolving credit. and as someone has already observed only a wage packet away from bankruptcy, they will continue to vote for this spiv called Key.
        Unfortunately it is all going to end in tears very soon.
    • Bob 11.3

      4 March 2016 at 2:42 pm

      “He drips lies so often I just don’t understand why his sheeple supporters still love him. Are they really *that* fucking stupid?”
      Are you talking about Andrew Little? (“I haven’t had anyone in my caucus come to me in support of the TPP”, “Labour has always supported free trade”, “I don’t recall if drug companies were represented” in the meeting he had with ALL of the major drug companies, not to mention every bottom line he has made as Labour leader…)
      • framu 11.3.1

        4 March 2016 at 3:37 pm

        yes slumbergod – it seems they are

        hey bob – compare to the list mate – http://thestandard.org.nz/the-great-big-list-of-john-keys-big-fat-lies-updated/
      • Halfcrown 11.3.2

        4 March 2016 at 7:02 pm

        “He drips lies so often I just don’t understand why his sheeple supporters still love him. Are they really *that* fucking stupid?”

        Yes
    • Tautuhi 11.4

      6 March 2016 at 12:50 am

      Most New Zealanders are stupid, they can’t see past the All Blacks and a bottle of Steinlager?
12. Redbaiter 12

    4 March 2016 at 3:03 pm

    On Wednesday evening 16/9/15 @ the Canterbury Champion Biz Awards, John Key is reported to have said people opposed to flag change were “not as bright as the ones who wanted to change”.

    Then Key asked for a show of hands.

    If this is true this is straight up intimidation.

    I reckon this is probably how Key runs his caucus/ cabinet meetings.

    Telling people what he approves of and then asking for a vote.

    Cheap and nasty.
    • TC 12.1

      4 March 2016 at 3:55 pm

      Reminds me a few school bullies tactics which is typical shonky john.
    • cogito 12.2

      4 March 2016 at 3:59 pm

      That’s why he’s got a bunch of bananas in the middle of his flag.
    • UncookedSelachimorpha 12.3

      5 March 2016 at 3:23 pm

      Let’s all be stupid then
13. Petertoo 13

    4 March 2016 at 4:13 pm

    Key obviously has his sychophants skulking around in at least Khandallah. There has been a bulk leaflet drop supporting the tea towel design – without any indication of who acknowledgement who financed, distributed or authorised the naively simplistic pamphlet.
    • cogito 13.1

      4 March 2016 at 4:40 pm

      Must be the Keyjugend. They are being recruited younger and younger these days to make up for all the deserters.
    • Anne 13.2

      4 March 2016 at 5:02 pm

      I’m sure all leaflets have to by law have a name of somebody on the leaflet for identification purposes. I hope you kept your copy and will lay a complaint with the electoral office. If it is upheld there will be a police investigation.
14. rod 14

    4 March 2016 at 5:01 pm

    I always thought that John Key’s first favourit flag choice was The Stars and Stripes.
    I wonder if he has dual citizenship ? anybody know ?
    • cogito 14.1

      4 March 2016 at 5:14 pm

      He would have dual NZ/UK citizenship as his father was British.
    • Andre 14.2

      4 March 2016 at 5:49 pm

      If you’re suggesting Key got naturalized as a US citizen, note that the required Oath of Allegiance requires renouncing all previous citizenships and allegiances.

      I’ve never seen anything credible suggesting Key got naturalized as a US citizen, and I’d be astonished if he had and successfully kept it secret. I seem to recall records about who’s been naturalized are public domain.
      • Tautuhi 14.2.1

        6 March 2016 at 12:52 am

        Evidently he was on the board of the Federal Reserve surely that qualifies you as a Resident of the USA.
        • Andre 14.2.1.1

          6 March 2016 at 9:17 am

          According to Wikipedia he was a member of the Foreign Exchange Committee of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. Which doesn’t look to be a high enough federal office that you have to be a US citizen to be appointed to it.

          From a brief search and memory the Federal Reserve system has quite a lot of independence from the federal government, even though the Board of Governors gets appointed by the pres and confirmed by the Senate. I haven’t been able to find anything that says what qualifications you have to have to be appointed to any of the lower positions, or even that a member of the Board of Governors has to be a citizen (though it would be a seriously ballsy move to try to put a non-citizen on the Board).
    • Mike S 14.3

      4 March 2016 at 11:08 pm

      Very wealthy people don’t need citizenship papers, they have plenty of paper currency.
15. cogito 15

    4 March 2016 at 11:41 pm

    Good piece on Scoop:

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1603/S00077/flawed-referendum-process-on-changing-new-zealands-flag.htm
16. Paul Campbell 16

    5 March 2016 at 2:10 pm

    I’m probably splitting hairs here but I don’t think he’s exactly lying here, more like making a promise that he didn’t keep … Politicians make promises all the time, especially during elections, and depend on their credibility with the public, and the resulting public trust to use those promises to get elected.

    Here we see Key chipping away at his own public credibility making promises he doesn’t keep.

    Now if he said that fully intending to break that promise then yes I think it would have been a lie. But if he simply doesn’t have the personal self control to keep his promises that a slightly different thing.

    Either way an ordinary voter cannot believe what Key says in public, there’s ample past evidence to the contrary
    • Paul Campbell 16.1

      5 March 2016 at 3:11 pm

      Oops I got that last clause backwards
17. Chris McMullen 17

    7 March 2016 at 9:13 am

    A Government Dept sign on Motuaroahia (Roberton Island) is supposed to be a history lesson for visitors.
    The subject site is where Captain James Cook first landed in New Zealand.
    The Artist impression on the sign shows Cooks Ship without an Ensign, no mention that Cook was British. It says he was European (Dutch? French?
    Seems, someone wants’ to forget historic facts and the English Captain who first charted our country and claimed it as a British Colony. A super Navigator and at one time honored as such on our currency.
    There is an anti Britain culture in our Government and the flag issue is only part of it.
    Politicians and Sporting Celebrities’ come and they go.
    We knock down our beautiful old buildings and build leaky apartments.
    We break up our relationships for a change.
    We seem to be a throwaway society, never fix. Just buy new later models. Look at our landfills.
    At least something should remain stable.
    Leave our Classic Flag alone.
    We won’t realise what we have lost until it has gone.
    Chris

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