Labour Conference Random Notes

Written By: - Date published: 4:20 pm, November 3rd, 2018 - 153 comments
Categories: labour, Politics - Tags:

I’ve never been to a conference that felt this upbeat.

Tonnes of policy ideas, no fights, lots of ambitious goals, polls skyrocketing, tonnes of cash to implement, opposition in disarray, a full card of delegates.

Life could be worse.

Really interesting debate extending Kiwisaver, especially how to target lower income people who haven’t signed up.

A leader who appeals to young people who will become regular voters.

A finance minister recategorising every budget bid according to poverty and wellbeing with full Tresury support.

Martin Philip’s of The Chills at the party tonight.

Dunedin’s brimming tonight.

153 comments on “Labour Conference Random Notes ”

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  1. mickysavage 1
    3 November 2018 at 4:21 pm

    I would be really interested to see what National’s polling is showing up. Could explain the sense of doom that has permeated their behaviour this week …

  2. Ad 2
    3 November 2018 at 4:41 pm

    “That Labour legislates for the provision of a greater democratic say of employees in large companies in the strategic direction of those companies in a manner similar to that in Germany and best practice in European countries.”

    Passed 😁

    • gsays 2.1
      3 November 2018 at 6:36 pm

      Well, if business confidence was down before, it’ll be in the toilet next week.

      From a hospitality perspective imagine paying your employees enough that they can afford to be your customers. Bad for business.

      Sarcasm…

  3. marty mars 3
    3 November 2018 at 4:57 pm

    Good one. Lots of reasons to be upbeat. Lots of things going well. As a person who has NEVER voted labour I’m impressed. Thank you to all good lefties getting in and doing it rather than just talking.

  4. Patricia Bremner 4
    3 November 2018 at 5:02 pm

    Thank you Ad. Please keep us posted as things go along. Great stuff.

  5. Ad 5
    3 November 2018 at 5:05 pm

    “In second term,…staged approach to free non-cosmetic … universal free dental care.”

    Passed.😁

    I suspect more word mincing to go.

    … been accepted by Conference a number of times in variations and never gets through Budget.

    • Patricia Bremner 5.1
      3 November 2018 at 5:09 pm

      Dental care..This might be introduced for community card holders? first? And… it might get through a “Well being Budget?”

      • Ad 5.1.1
        3 November 2018 at 5:15 pm

        Freaky big ticket item but worth a crack.

        Not sure why those earning $200k need their Sophie’s braces paid by taxes from the poor.

  6. Patricia Bremner 6
    3 November 2018 at 5:05 pm

    I have just looked at your photo of the crowd. A good mix of ages, not all white hair!!

  7. Ad 7
    3 November 2018 at 5:12 pm

    “Extend legal voting age to young people to 16.”

    OMG where’s their frontal lobes?

    Passed.

    Will need a 75% threshold in Parliament I think?

    Will no one think of the children?đŸ˜¶

    • mickysavage 7.1
      3 November 2018 at 5:28 pm

      I am for it. Your average 16 year old is way more tuned in than your average 86 year old.

      • Muttonbird 7.1.1
        3 November 2018 at 5:46 pm

        Civics will have to be taught in schools then. What gives way in a packed curriculum? Should not students at secondary level concentrate on the maths, the science, the arts, the english, the languages, rather than ‘real life’?

        • solkta 7.1.1.1
          3 November 2018 at 7:28 pm

          Schools waste heaps of time with their 19th century authoritarianism and stale teaching methods. Also forcing children to play sport when they are not interested is not only a waste of time but harmful to public health as it puts students off exercise. And isn’t Civics part of Social Studies?

          • BM 7.1.1.1.1
            3 November 2018 at 7:32 pm

            What shit.

            Learning how to work cohesively within a team environment to achieve a goal is a vital skill that kids need to learn.

            It’s so important for kids to learn that it’s not all about them and that working with others can produce positive results.

            • solkta 7.1.1.1.1.1
              3 November 2018 at 7:39 pm

              Students get to work cooperatively across all subject areas. No need to play sport for that.

              • BM …
                3 November 2018 at 7:44 pm

                It has to start at a young age.

                When I was a boy everyone from 5 onwards was encouraged to play a team sport, it was mainly rugby because that was the way it was at that time in NZ history, you could play soccer if you wanted but that was fairly rare.

                The girls played netball.

                Obviously, there are far more options available to kids these days.

                • solkta …
                  3 November 2018 at 7:49 pm

                  PE does start at a young age. But hey, why not make dancing compulsory?

                  • BM …
                    3 November 2018 at 7:57 pm

                    Still an individual activity.

                    As a socialist wouldn’t you want kids exposed to and learning how great working within a team environment really is?

                    • solkta …
                      3 November 2018 at 8:03 pm

                      Dancing an individual activity? You are fucking joking right? Man you should see some of the performances my daughter has participated in. The Hip Hop stuff in particular requires the group to literally move as one.

                    • cleangreen …
                      4 November 2018 at 9:02 am

                      What ‘team’ is that BM; – the elitist sect?

                • WeTheBleeple …
                  4 November 2018 at 5:52 am

                  Sports ‘team building’ where: the boys play rugby so they can get in fights (literal quote from peers in high school) and the girls so they can get down to their knickers in front of the schools resident pedo.

                  Team building as in getting yelled at by loser adults who never got to be sportspeople so they take it out on the children. Screaming as they run up and down the sidelines, veins bulging in forehead, GO BOY GO!

                  Nah. School sports was pathetic and taught me nothing but contempt for phys-ed teachers.

                  • cleangreen …
                    4 November 2018 at 9:05 am

                    100% WeTheBleeple

                    Sports is now a ‘corporate fund generator’ – nothing else now.

                  • solkta …
                    4 November 2018 at 9:19 am

                    Them trying to force my class to play Thugby presented a funny spectacle. There were two boys who were about a foot taller than the rest of us and considerably wider than most of us. The ‘game’ would involve the two of them chasing each other around the field while the rest of us scuttled around trying to keep out of their way. Funny how most people don’t actually like being stomped on.

              • Muttonbird …
                3 November 2018 at 7:48 pm

                Ridiculous. Sport is a subject area and regular exercise is a crucial part of every child’s development.

                • solkta …
                  3 November 2018 at 7:52 pm

                  You don’t need to play sport to get exercise. Who was it who said that Golf was a good way to wreck a walk? Why is dancing not a compulsory subject area?

                • patricia bremner …
                  3 November 2018 at 10:00 pm

                  Sport and Outdoor education are not core curriculum subjects.

              • mac1 …
                3 November 2018 at 10:27 pm

                There’s more than sport that teaches group participation, like drama, music and dance. A ‘well-rounded’ student would do all of these, and probably be quite slim……………..

            • solkta 7.1.1.1.1.2
              3 November 2018 at 7:40 pm

              and also it just no work because you can’t actually force them.

          • Muttonbird 7.1.1.1.2
            3 November 2018 at 7:43 pm

            You might have a point about civics being part of social studies but the rest of your comment fails. First you belittle modern teaching calling it authoritarian and stale. Then you bizarrely claim sport in schools puts children off exercise.

            • solkta 7.1.1.1.2.1
              3 November 2018 at 7:47 pm

              You assume that schools use modern teaching methods. Me i only wish. When my daughter is lucky enough to get a teacher who does she streams ahead. My daughter is also a very active kid but hates sport and the silly competitiveness of it. When i was at school a good half the class just pretended to participate.

              • Muttonbird …
                3 November 2018 at 8:04 pm

                I see. You like the whole good teacher, bad teacher thing, like the ACT party.

                • solkta …
                  3 November 2018 at 8:09 pm

                  No you don’t see anything. Inquiry Learning is at the centre of modern teaching yet few teachers can manage it. It is simply in the too hard basket at my daughter’s high school.

                  http://nzcurriculum.tki.org.nz/Curriculum-stories/Media-gallery/Effective-pedagogy/Inquiry-learning

                  • In Vino …
                    3 November 2018 at 9:20 pm

                    solkta – I am a semi-retired secondary school teacher. Please do not blame the teachers – many of us sympathise with you. “Too-hard basket” is unfair. This country (successive Govts) treats schools as holding pens rather than education centres, despite all the mealy-mouthed weasel-words.
                    Inquiry learning has glimpses of hope with kids using computers in the right programme, but that will not work long-term. Teachers have to be given a fair chance to do it in the classroom.
                    Sadly, I fear that all teachers will get is a nearly-adequate pay-rise, just enough to keep the staggering system staggering on.

                    • solkta …
                      3 November 2018 at 10:13 pm

                      Oh i do blame teachers. I’m all in favour of giving teachers a considerable pay rise but this needs to go hand in hand with a firm requirement for them to engage in professional development or retire.

                      At primary school inquiry learning was a thing for the school with individual teachers showing varied success. Her last year there was brilliant. They knocked a hole between two classes and threw the desks away. She would collaborate with a small group of others and just get on with things while receiving feedback as necessary.

                      The next year though at intermediate her first teacher was a sour authoritarian old cow who was all sit at your assigned desk and don’t blink until you are told. Her achievement plummeted as a result. In the last half year of intermediate she was lucky enough to get a modern teacher and excelled again gaining a mark for social studies that was off the scale.

                      Then again this year her first at secondary more old stale teachers. She tells me of social studies lessons where the teacher writes from the book onto the board and the students from the board to their books. Just total bullshit.

                      The lack of professionalism shown by the teachers is considerable with often a complete lack of knowledge of applicable laws. She has received two written apologies from teachers in the space of two years from where they have tried to use collective punishment against her.

                      One of my main inputs as a parent is to try and limit the damage being caused by the school so that her love of learning survives for university.

                    • Dukeofurl …
                      4 November 2018 at 7:30 am

                      Didnt Hattie rank ‘modern learning’ way down the list on things that have results.

                      Some of those with ‘ rote teachers’ are likely to be those teaching outside their knowledge- common as schools will just throw a body in front of the class when they have to.

                  • patricia bremner …
                    3 November 2018 at 10:02 pm

                    They don’t teach secondary pupils Solka, they teach subjects. LOLZ

                    • WeTheBleeple …
                      4 November 2018 at 6:03 am

                      Compared to high school, university was a different world. The cool cliques were largely gone by the end of year one. Then I was surrounded by scholars and hard workers. Incredible!

                      Another thing, I was a poor person, obvious by my op-shop clothes… Nobody cared. (Most) rich kids are not their parents. They called me inspirational, they asked me for help! We worked together on societal problems. Big, real time issues. It was exhilarating.

                      Back at high school, the rastas beat the punks, the punks beat the metallers, the metallers beat the rastas, on Friday night we went to town and collectively beat on the next school.

                      The rugby lads always in the thick of it.

      • bwaghorn 7.1.2
        3 November 2018 at 6:07 pm

        Na the only 16 year olds that will vote are the ones taken along by their parents and told who to vote for .
        Could work for the left if they can get the missing hoards out to vote though as they’ll be the breeders .

      • Heather Grimwwod 7.1.3
        3 November 2018 at 7:10 pm

        Young Labour folk speaking today showed real maturity, believe me.

        • patricia bremner 7.1.3.1
          3 November 2018 at 10:05 pm

          Yes that was a video link worth watching. Very proud. Jacinda’s wee prod to own their good idea and “act” on it.. “Will you take that on?” She is gold.

        • cleangreen 7.1.3.2
          4 November 2018 at 9:06 am

          My son is so strong on politics now at 31 far more than I was .

      • Dukeofurl 7.1.4
        4 November 2018 at 7:24 am

        “Your average 16 year old is way more tuned in than your average 86 year old.”

        Not so sure about that. Voting numbers for those from say 18-22 are far less than those over 80.

        You move in different circles than the average 18 yr old Mickey.

        And I worry about the targeting of under 18 yr olds on social media, because thats exactly how it would be done.-

      • Peter 7.1.5
        4 November 2018 at 11:52 am

        Bullshit

    • Jenny 7.2
      3 November 2018 at 6:31 pm

      This is a great idea.

      For many reasons.

      We are making irrevocable decisions especially about climate change right now that will affect younger people for their whole lives and that they will never have a say in reversing, even as they grow older.

      Can young people be trusted with this responsibility?

      I think they can.

      Never has there been a generation that is more connected and aware of the wider world and its problems.

      Bravo Labour

      My hope is that there is legislation on the floor of parliament in this parliamentary term to lower the voting age to 16.

      • DirkDirkin 7.2.1
        3 November 2018 at 8:05 pm

        Some older people sure as hell cant. I wouldnt trust Collins or Brownlee, so yeah i trust young ones fully

    • BM 7.3
      3 November 2018 at 7:18 pm

      Will need a 75% threshold in Parliament I think

      Hopefully, it would be a huge flaw in the democratic system if the government of the day could change the rules just like that.

      This sort of stuff has to be decided by referedum, not politicians.

    • Jenny 7.4
      4 November 2018 at 8:15 am

      Enfranchise the young

      Lowering the voting age is an urgent must do

      Polite Rebellion
      Stuff.co.nz
      Brittany Keogh, Josephine Franks, Lawrence Smith

      We discovered a group of young leaders preparing to tackle the things that worry, intimidate and scare them. They are acutely aware of the prejudice, inertia and ignorance that threatens their futures. It makes some of them angry.

      But theirs is a modern insurgency. They’re more likely to organise online than in the streets. They will win arguments with reason, rather than rage. Theirs is a Polite Rebellion.

      We need these young people in our political discourse now.

      But what is the message we give our young people, when for most of their conscious life we do not allow them to have a say.

      And we wonder why so many don’t vote when they finally get the franchise at 18

    • Jenny 7.5
      4 November 2018 at 8:44 am

      Maybe we could buy them off, with a massive tax break LOL

      “No taxation without representation”

      Lowering the voting age to 16 Wikipedia

      ……..one of the major arguments for lowering the voting age to 16 is that at this age in most countries a person has reached the legal working age for most jobs and is liable to pay taxes and therefore should not have to pay taxes without the right to political representation.[8]

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_age

      No taxation without representation Wikipedia

      “No taxation without representation” is a slogan originating during the 1700s that summarized a primary grievance of the American colonists in the Thirteen Colonies, which was one of the major causes of the American Revolution. In short, many in those colonies believed that, as they were not directly represented in the distant British Parliament, any laws it passed affecting the colonists (such as the Sugar Act and the Stamp Act) were illegal under the Bill of Rights 1689, and were a denial of their rights as Englishmen.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_taxation_without_representation

      No vote. No GST for everyone under 18

      “No taxation without representation”

    • Sabine 7.6
      4 November 2018 at 11:58 am

      “kids” are allowed to drive at that age.
      “kids” are allowed to work and pay taxes at that age.
      “kids” are already working as volunteers in their communities.
      “kids’ have sex and children at that age
      ‘kids’ in that age group have represented their countries during sports games and won medals

      why on earth should 16 year old not be allowed to vote. After they have to live the longest with the consequences of the decision of today.

    • Jenny 7.7
      6 November 2018 at 7:20 pm

      ‘Serious storm clouds’ threaten NZ democracy – report
      Sam Sachdeva – Newsroom.co.nz, November 6, 2018

      “It is not good enough to argue there is no problem: there may be one coming down the road very rapidly.”

      He suggested the introduction of a strong civics programme at schools, coupled with lowering the voting age to 16 – although he acknowledged there would be “significant political challenges to overcome”, including a perception that most teachers held centre-left beliefs.

      Addressing concerns about the decline of traditional media and “fracturing” of media sources into groups identifiable by ideology, Chapple said there was a need for “well-funded, independent state-funded” outlet covering multiple platforms and languages which was “clearly and consistently politically neutral”.

      The report was produced as part of a “pop-up think tank” run by the University of Canterbury’s Small States and the New Security Environment Project, set up to produce policy analysis on defence and foreign affairs issues for New Zealand politicians.

      • Exkiwiforces 7.7.1
        6 November 2018 at 8:03 pm

        Yes Jenny, having read that on the Stuff website this and I have CU pop up to my iPad for further reading. The CU Pop up site looks very interesting btw with a lot of interesting articles for me chew on lol.

        The first sentence to your post should be ring alarm bells to a lot of people, but a lot of today’s young & old especially the pollies don’t seem to want to know or understand how bad it’s getting IRT to Defence and Foreign Policy as it’s not hitting them in the hip pocket. When it does it would be Far too late to IRT to Defence or Foreign Affairs to achieve any Policy objectives or employ any contingency plans if the MDCoA pop ups first as everyone is carrying on as if the Most Likely Course of Action is the only option as Most Dangerous Course Action is too scary to think about.

        As the most MDCoA is going to cost a lot money and it may involve taking sides, which may be the cheaper or dangerous option and how many dead rats you want to eat, as going alone being the most expensive option or should bury our head and pretend it isn’t happening to us. As some want us to do without realising that the last 30 odd years of Neo Con/Lib economic theory has done to the wider economy of NZ, by generating a false sense of overall security IRT to Defence and Foreign Policy objectives due a to a lack of false hope and direction from the pollies.

  8. Ad 8
    3 November 2018 at 5:16 pm

    “Electrify entire main trunk line.”

    Passed. 😁

  9. Ad 9
    3 November 2018 at 5:17 pm

    “Free sanitary items.”

    Passed.

  10. Chris T 10
    3 November 2018 at 5:23 pm

    Has Jacinda wheeled out Neve yet, or is she waiting till tomorrow?

  11. Patricia Bremner 11
    3 November 2018 at 5:27 pm

    Chris, Neve is attending her first conference with her Dad. Picture up yesterday of Jacinda putting a red knitted hat on her head as it was cold. Did you miss that?

    • Ankerrawshark 11.1
      4 November 2018 at 11:56 am

      Love to see that pic of neve in the red hat Patricia. Have looked on stuff etc but couldn’t find

      • patricia bremner 11.1.1
        4 November 2018 at 2:47 pm

        Oh, put into Google Jacinda puts a hat on Neve up came lots of photos and there it is The little red hat Cheers. Article was “Labour united heading into the future” didn’t state who wrote it.Audrey!!

        • patricia bremner 11.1.1.1
          4 November 2018 at 3:01 pm

          Managed to find who wrote “Labour united heading into the future” it was Audrey. The photo was above that Ankerrawshark. Cheers. Only had a few seconds left, so comment stood, but I added Audrey’s name.

  12. Stuart Munro 12
    3 November 2018 at 5:41 pm

    Lots of good stuff there.

  13. Morrissey 13
    3 November 2018 at 5:47 pm

    When they see the photo of that packed theatre, no doubt beleaguered National Party operatives will be seeing red.

  14. Jenny 14
    3 November 2018 at 6:49 pm

    I hope we can see some good pledges for climate change action.

    For a start a total and immediate ban on all PKE imports is a no brainer,

    Fonterra implicated in deforestation and human rights abuses
    Andrew Tobert – Greenpeace International, September 19, 2018

    Over one a half million rugby fields of Indonesian rainforest were destroyed between 2015 and 2017.

    That’s just one of the harrowing statistics included in a devastating new investigative report released today by Greenpeace International.

    The report, Final Countdown, documents extensive deforestation and human rights abuses by 25 major palm oil producers.

    Of the 25 palm oil producers investigated, Fonterra’s sole supplier of Palm Kernel Expeller (PKE) Wilmar, was found to be buying from 18 of them.

    “Our investigation shows that the palm products Wilmar trades are still contaminated with rainforest destruction. “ says Gen Toop, Greenpeace’s sustainable agriculture spokesperson.

    New Zealand is the biggest importer of PKE in the world and imports continue to rise. PKE is a by-product of the palm oil industry that is used in NZ as a supplementary feed for dairy cows.

    “Indonesia’s rainforests are the lungs of our planet, they are one of our strongest defences against climate change, they are a source of life for Indigenous People, and incredible species like the orangutan,” says Toop…….

    • Jenny 14.1
      3 November 2018 at 6:51 pm

      But anything new initiatives to take on climate change would be good.

      Please continue to keep us posted Ad

    • Ad 14.2
      3 November 2018 at 7:01 pm

      Dairy industry review terms of reference came out this week.

      Sustainability is a key area.

      Check it out.

      Expect Water policy group and Rural policy group to have impact here.

      • cleangreen 14.2.1
        4 November 2018 at 9:15 am

        We need fontera to finally embrace clean low carbon transport’ such as ‘rail to freight their products’ as they pledged to us back in 2012 they asked National to expand rail from their production sites around the whole country is yet to happen under Labour/NZ First coalition , as they are rail supportive so go for this Labour NZ First with greens support; – please.

    • paul s 14.3
      3 November 2018 at 7:23 pm

      To be fair on Fonterra they are driving farmers to reduce PKE usage by grading (fining) farmers who overuse via a Fat Evaluation Index https://www.fonterra.com/nz/en/our-stories/media/fat-evaluation-index-grading-system-to-begin-september-2018.html

      • Jenny 14.3.1
        4 November 2018 at 12:41 pm

        paul s 14.3
        3 November 2018 at 7:23 pm
        To be fair on Fonterra they are driving farmers to reduce PKE usage by grading (fining) farmers who overuse via a Fat Evaluation Index

        What a load of specious rubbish.

        paul s, I have read the link you have supplied. Fonterra’s grading (fining) of farmers has nothing to do with PKE use, and is all to do with meeting customer requirements for low fat milk, excepting that PKE can fatten up cattle quicker than regular feed.

        Fonterra today confirmed the final details of the new Fat Evaluation Index (FEI) Grading System that will help farmers optimise their farming system and continue to provide world class milk and milk products for customers around the world. The Co-op also confirmed that farmers will have until September 2018, three months longer than originally announced, to make any necessary adjustments before demerits are applied.

        The Co-op has established the FEI test to assist farmers in producing milk with a fat composition suitable for manufacturing products that meet customer specifications.

        This sort of specious rationalisation tagged on top of Fonterra’s campaign to regulate fat content to suit their customer’s requirements, is completely typical of Fonterra’s greenwashing.

  15. Bewildered 15
    3 November 2018 at 7:10 pm

    “I never been to a conference that feels so upbeat”

    Duh you are in power, but I guess it is infrequent so a novelty Enjoy

    • Ad 15.1
      3 November 2018 at 7:24 pm

      Settling for a good 9 year stretch

      Cheers😍

      • Bewildered 15.1.1
        3 November 2018 at 7:31 pm

        We will see, I suggest we will revert to the mean (labour in opposition) a lot earlier than you think but enjoy the ride while it lasts 😊

        • UncookedSelachimorpha 15.1.1.1
          3 November 2018 at 7:51 pm

          “we will revert to the mean”

          Very mean, in that case too!

        • mike 15.1.1.2
          3 November 2018 at 8:15 pm

          jealous ?

          • Bewildered 15.1.1.2.1
            3 November 2018 at 8:44 pm

            Nup not a member of a political party, labour National not really that different, Prefer national simy on basis have no time for left thinking, or lack of, National just a little bit less left than labour but not much

          • Ankerrawshark 15.1.1.2.2
            4 November 2018 at 9:50 am

            Happy days….

            To be equite frank would like National to disappear and NZ first to be opposition, at least they stand for something rather than the top 1%

      • JC 15.1.2
        3 November 2018 at 8:55 pm

        9 plus 9 = Eighteen at least! (With support and greater influence from the Greens!)

  16. Michael who failed Civics 16
    3 November 2018 at 9:26 pm

    How about no votes for anyone over 75? After all, they’ve had their go and won’t have to live with their mistakes.

    • ianmac 16.1
      3 November 2018 at 10:09 pm

      But no young Michael. Those of us over 75+ have wisdom you know. And obstinate persisting optimism. One day my boy…

    • mac1 16.2
      3 November 2018 at 10:32 pm

      I’ll still have twenty five years to go after 75. I believe in being ‘ashpirashional’……..

      Voting is like certain other occasional ah activities- you get better at it with more practice.

    • Peter 16.3
      4 November 2018 at 12:00 pm

      I would agree to that, to many old farts still voting I include myself among them.

  17. Ad 17
    4 November 2018 at 8:36 am

    Looks like we’re getting an announcement from Prime Minister Ardern on education and mental health today.

    I’m guessing mental health workers in school or something.

    Excellent timing given the Porirua situation.

  18. Observer Tokoroa 18
    4 November 2018 at 8:55 am

    National Trolls on Trial

    James and Bm will be livid. They have tried their cringing hearts out to destroy and crush into rubble the citizens of New Zealand.

    They have demanded that Corporations and little businessmen pay staff crushingly low wages.

    They have told the Media to write the Decent people off the face of Aotearoa and replace them with criminally cruel national creeps – such as Collins; Bennett; Bridges; English; Farar; Slater: Hooton: Boag ; and that biggest rat of all – greasy pathetic piggytail fetisher – Sir John Treasonous Key.

    The wealth of the wealthy has only been possible by the relentless theft taken from the underpaid employees and the helpless poor. Houses cannot be afforded. Rentals cannot be afforded.

    But Labour is changing that.

    National is Scum – and no amount of troll rubbish will save it. Not even the whimpish joke called “The Herald” will save it.

    • Chris T 18.1
      4 November 2018 at 9:36 am

      Well I see you have grabbed Ardern’s call of kindness in politics with both hands.

      That is impressive vitiriol at it’s most nasty.

      Well done

  19. Rosemary McDonald 19
    4 November 2018 at 9:15 am

    “The wealth of the wealthy has only been possible by the relentless theft taken from the underpaid employees and the helpless poor. Houses cannot be afforded. Rentals cannot be afforded.

    But Labour is changing that. ”

    Are they?

    Or are they using this first term to buy the votes of the yuppies?

    Or is the Wellbeing Budget planned for next May going to be a continuation of work begun by National….like the Disability Support Transformation?

    icognito was trying to decipher Robinson’s speech last night….https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-03-11-2018/#comment-1546268

    ….and I recalled this conversation has been had before.

    ” An earlier newsroom piece
.https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/09/05/224294/what-will-the-wellbeing-budget-change

    
and yes!!!! There’s Uncle Bill ‘if there’s a loophole you’d be a fool not to exploit it’ English’s Social Investment plan
.https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10644993

    His plan for the sick and disabled folk


    ” the big driver of future costs: long-term invalids and sickness beneficiaries, a group he describes as “this big hard lump of long-term waste of human potential”. ”

    
.was to replicate ACC’s tactics


    ” If they were ACC customers, we would be spending a lot of money on trying to move them. They cost a bit less on sickness and invalids [benefits], not a hell of a lot less(bullshit), but we do nothing and we are actually doing nothing to reduce this very large long-term liability.” ”

    And that sure worked well
with how many shifted from ACC to SLP and Jobseekers?

    So far
.I’m certainly not seeing how this government attitude towards those whose health and disability needs prevent them from being in paid work differ from National’s.

    Policy change to encourage those on benefits to participate in paid employment ( https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-03-11-2018/#comment-1546092) without increasing the base rate for the SLP for those who simply can’t work sounds like more arbeit macht frei to me. ”

    Prove me wrong. ” https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-03-11-2018/#comment-1546270

    I’m not feeling the kindness Observer Tokoroa. Not feeling it at all.

    • Ad 19.1
      4 November 2018 at 10:12 am

      You’ll have to wait for Budget 2019 to have those questions answered.

      Top work on the Auschwitz reference btw.

      • Rosemary McDonald 19.1.1
        4 November 2018 at 10:20 am

        “You’ll have to wait for Budget 2019 to have those questions answered.”

        But of course. We’ll wait. We have no other option. It’s not like we are a valued group that pollies from all sides are fighting over.

        “Top work on the Auschwitz reference btw.”

        You liked that, eh? Good. It is so very appropriate when the very best Te Reo Putake can bring out of the Conference of Lovingkindeness (for most, but not the most vulnerable) is….

        “There is one policy proposal that directly affects beneficiaries and that’s to lift the earning threshold and to lower the abatement. This would allow beneficiaries to earn more as part time workers and not lose the benefit at 70 cents in the dollar as it is now.”

        Now think about that for a minute or two Ad, then tell me ‘arbeit macht frei’ is not on the mark.

        • Ad 19.1.1.1
          4 November 2018 at 10:30 am

          Everone’s waiting. You’re not alone. And there’s plenty of health $$ in the budget bid queue.

          No, it is not appropriate to compare levels of social welfare payments to the systemic industrial murder of millions of people.

          And no that’s not the only policy on offer.

          You compared Nazi Germany’s torture and murder of millions of people to a social welfare level in New Zealand.

          Get a grip on yourself.

          • Rosemary McDonald 19.1.1.1.1
            4 November 2018 at 11:08 am

            There’s history, Ad, when it comes to State Parties’ treatment of people with disabilities that is not confined to the Third Reich.

            That’s one of the reasons we have the UNCRPD.

            New Zealand cannot, as yet, hold it’s head up on this.

            And to quote the Disabilities Commissioner….

            “Ms Tesoriero told the select committee many disabled people could not freely exercise their choice in New Zealand.

            “We live in a world where people focus on fixing us, not on removing the barriers that make us disabled.

            “In the absence of adequate services, we run the risk that choice under this bill becomes a Clayton’s choice for disabled people.””

            https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/357924/euthanasia-bill-a-clayton-s-choice-for-disabled-people

            Now focus a minute on that statement….”In the absence of adequate services…” …now Ad, you will be, of course, aware that currently non ACC disabled have no right to funded supports from the Ministry of Health? That non-ACC disabled may be ‘eligible’ but have no ‘entitlement’?

            Think about that for a minute….a whole swag of New Zealand citizens who absolutely need the daily assistance of another person in order to live have no entitlement to government funding for this support.

            Any single fucking day they could be notified by some petty bureaucrat at some NASC that owing to a change in policy or budget cuts or a change n the weather the funding they need to pay for support that enables them to live has been reduced or removed.

            It has happened….but I guess they’ll have the right to choose euthanasia.

            Now, unless you can relate to this, unless you can truly empathize….

            • Chris 19.1.1.1.1.1
              4 November 2018 at 11:23 am

              It’s bad enough that the unemployed including the sick are not expected to be able to participate in the same way as the employed – I guess the twisted logic behind that is that one day the individual will be employed. Even on this wholly flawed premise there’s absolutely no basis for banishing the disabled to a life of poverty. But we still do.

            • Ad 19.1.1.1.1.2
              4 November 2018 at 11:24 am

              It is Labour policy to fully comply with UN policy and resolutions on disability. Go to our manifesto.

              I posted precisely on the euthanasia-disability relationship, but I know you researched and read that before presuming my empathy. Your support would have been welcome.

              You need to go to your nearest Holocaust memorial and beg forgiveness for a truly heinous slur.

              You are not the only one with a 2019 $$ health budget bid.

              • marty mars …
                4 November 2018 at 11:29 am

                Henious series of comments. Some people will use anything to push a point.
                Hope the day good down there for conference.

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                4 November 2018 at 11:33 am

                “I posted precisely on the euthanasia-disability relationship’…”

                I did not know that….and unless I had seen such a post I would not have known to look for it. Believe it or nor Ad, I do not actively go searching for the opinions of folk who use pseudonyms.

                “It is Labour policy to fully comply with UN policy and resolutions on disability. Go to our manifesto.”

                Promises, promises. Waiting, waiting….

                “You need to go to your nearest Holocaust memorial and beg forgiveness for a truly heinous slur.”

                Did Labour tell Tariana to do likewise when she referenced the Holocaust with respect to how Maori have fared under colonization?

                Oh, that’s right….

                Some in the disability community most definitely hear the cattle cars clanking in the sidings….as is their right.

              • Sacha …
                4 November 2018 at 11:34 am

                Hardly a slur to link the extermination programmes by the same crowd (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4) with ongoing attitudes about disabled people’s worth that still guide decisions by those including our NZ govts.

                To his credit, then-head of the NZ Jewish Council Stephen Goodman was well aware of the link when I met him one time at a public function and was very supportive and empathetic. It’s not a zero-sum victimhood.

                Disability is not the same as health, and the >$3b annual funding spread across govt portfolios reflects that.

          • Sacha 19.1.1.1.2
            4 November 2018 at 11:42 am

            It’s also not the *levels* of welfare payments, but rather the principle of having no legal entitlement to them that Rosemary is talking about – which is why she and others have had to put so much personal energy into taking governments to court.

            I can see why she might be looking for tangible signs that this one is any different.

            This form of social and legal negation has deep historic echoes and causes very real harm to many New Zealanders. I wish more people could see the similarity with other social justice movements.

        • te reo putake 19.1.1.2
          4 November 2018 at 11:17 am

          Hi, Rosemary. Congratulations on writing the stupidest comment in TS history. If ignorance is bliss, you must be fucken ecstatic.

          • Rosemary McDonald 19.1.1.2.1
            4 November 2018 at 11:25 am

            Gee, thanks TRP.

            Exactly what is it that qualifies this comment as the most stupidist in TS history?

          • Chris 19.1.1.2.2
            4 November 2018 at 11:30 am

            If people like you are influential within the labour party then we’re all fucked.

            • marty mars 19.1.1.2.2.1
              4 November 2018 at 11:44 am

              Lol. We sorta are anyway but to your point – labour are a big team with lots of ideas and opinions. They can take different views withour losing it. What are you so scared of? Man it’s like some of the ‘left’ people wish the gnats were still in power.

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                4 November 2018 at 11:57 am

                ” Man it’s like some of the ‘left’ people wish the gnats were still in power.”

                Man, there’s that ‘if you’re not 100% with us you’re against us’ meme again…

                “They can take different views withour losing it.”

                Hmm….

              • Chris …
                4 November 2018 at 12:31 pm

                It’s those “different views” within labour that’s meant very little has changed for the poorest and most vulnerable since 1991. It started when labour reneged on its promise to reverse the benefit cuts – probably as early as 1993. We’ve been waiting for change since 1999. What makes you so fucking optimistic now?

                • marty mars …
                  4 November 2018 at 12:46 pm

                  Cos they are in government.

                  1991 was 27 years ago. New people, new environment and new commitment.

                  I am cautiously optimistic which is in great contrast, I grant you, to the enthusiastically pessimistic comments by some, like you.

                  • Chris …
                    4 November 2018 at 1:03 pm

                    Apologies for that. I promise not to knock your religion again.

                    • marty mars …
                      4 November 2018 at 1:11 pm

                      Accepted. And I’m not religious at least in any sense you’d understand. I’ll repeat this slowly I am not tribal labour. I’ve never voted for labour. I am hard left and savage green and Māori rights focused. Only liars present me in other ways.

          • adam 19.1.1.2.3
            4 November 2018 at 12:40 pm

            Why does this comment fell like the same juvenile shit that was thrown at C.V?

            • Bill 19.1.1.2.3.1
              4 November 2018 at 1:27 pm

              Best of it is, that slogan can be said to sit beneath the abolition of chattel slavery and the introduction of wage slavery anyway.

              I mean, the idea or “deal” was and is, that after however many years of work, we will indeed be granted ‘freedom’ in the shape of retirement.

              Or to look at it another way, if freedom will be delivered back to us via interaction with “the market” (a central tenet of liberal capitalism), then one must work in order to access the market, and save enough to be able to enjoy those later years of ‘freedom’.

              The thing about only allowing discussion of “arbeit macht frei” in relation to Auschwitz, is that it serves to shut down quite legitimate lines of discussion.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 19.1.1.2.4
            4 November 2018 at 1:10 pm

            Shameful ‘rush of blood’ comment (IMO) – what might our PM make of it?

          • Michael who failed Civics 19.1.1.2.5
            5 November 2018 at 1:12 am

            I think you take line honours for yours.

          • Antoine 19.1.1.2.6
            5 November 2018 at 11:14 am

            Hey @TRP

            You are bullying Rosemary, and you should feel bad. If I was a moderator I would give you a few weeks off to think about it.

            A.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 19.2
      4 November 2018 at 10:58 am

      “The wealth of the wealthy has only been possible by the relentless theft taken from the underpaid employees and the helpless poor. Houses cannot be afforded. Rentals cannot be afforded.

      But Labour is changing that. ”

      Unfortunately I have to share some concern of Rosemary here. So far there has been no significant increase in the contribution expected from the rich (individuals, banks etc). And little talk of it. If Labour does not address this, their impact will be very limited indeed.

      • Ad 19.2.1
        4 November 2018 at 11:07 am

        ” no significant increase in the contribution expected from the rich…” except the recommendations of a comprehensive review of the tax system which are there for you to read and include big shifts against the 1%.

        • Molly 19.2.1.1
          4 November 2018 at 12:21 pm

          Ad, why don’t you link to the working report so people can determine for themselves?

        • UncookedSelachimorpha 19.2.1.2
          4 November 2018 at 11:34 pm

          The current government is certainly taking steps in the right direction and far more than the previous lot. And it is early days.

          But the inequality situation in NZ is extreme and needs strong action. It is not at all clear to me that the tax working group will have any impact on the 1%, for example:

          – At least six of the eleven working group members have strong associations with elite law firms / tax advisors etc – effectively allowing foxes to advise on the future of hen house security.

          – Unsurprisingly, a financial transactions tax is not recommended by this group. Despite noting it would be a progressive tax.

          – Inheritance tax (an important control of intergenerational inequality, and a tax that has most effect on the very wealthy) was excluded from consideration, from the outset.

          But there are some good recommendations there, so here’s hoping. Analysis of wealth vs taxation would be useful (rather than IRD-declared income vs taxation, which is all they seem to have).

  20. Observer Tokoroa 20
    4 November 2018 at 10:28 am

    Hi Rosemary McDonald

    Billy English adopted some sketchy worthwhile plans towards his demise. Somebody must have got through to him that there were needy people in New Zealand.

    But he absolutely denied there was a lack of any housing or any affordability.

    No Crisis Bill. He munched along with no crisis Paula. (National will never overcome that stupidity.)

    The way he and Key took the Soul out of NZ was utterly despicable Rosemary. And you know that .He declared with that freak John Key that all New Zealand youth were useless and hopeless.

    I am sorry you are not feeling the “Kindness” – but I think that is because you may have vested too much of yourself into charlatan National – and taken their bait hook line and sinker.

    Bashing Jacinda – is so primitive Rosemary. Why do you do it. ? You are better than Key and English.

    • Rosemary McDonald 20.1
      4 November 2018 at 10:31 am

      “…but I think that is because you may vested too much of yourself into charlatan National – and taken the bait hook line and sinker.

      Bashing Jacinda – is so primitive Rosemary. Why do you do it. ?”

      What????

      And where have I ‘bashed Jacinda’? (I am assuming you are referring to the PM, Ardern?)

  21. Ad 21
    4 November 2018 at 10:40 am

    Next conference is Wanganui by popular delegates vote

    • te reo putake 21.1
      4 November 2018 at 11:27 am

      The choice was between Whangaz and Rotorua. Both towns put good cases, but Whanganui won it the moment Mayor Hamish MacDouall reminded the conference of the damage the Lange government did to the river city when “that bastard Prebble” closed the Eastown railway workshops.

      We can’t undo the hurt, but we can at least acknowledge it.

    • veutoviper 21.2
      4 November 2018 at 11:36 am

      Ad, do you know whether the PM’s speech this afternoon at 1.30pm will be televised live? If so, where?

    • Jenny 21.3
      6 November 2018 at 6:48 pm

      Whanganui or Rotorua are both good choices for the 2019 Labour Party National Conference.

      Looking further out than that; when was the last time that a sitting Labour Government held their Party conference in Auckland?

      In 2020 it must be Auckland.

      Our biggest metropolitan area and population centre.

      Our biggest industrial and working class centre and union bastion.

      Our biggest Polynesian centre.

      In my opinion a Left Labour government and party sure of itself would be holding their 2020 conference in Auckland.

      To have the National Conference in any other centre in 2020 would be to send the wrong message of a party and government unsure of itself.

      “You can’t win the country if you don’t win Auckland. It’s a third of the population, and it is critical.”

      Phil Twyford Labour campaign chair 2017

      And how right he was.

      http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1708/S00379/speech-ardern-labours-election-campaign-launch.htm