Labour’s School Leavers’ Toolkit

100 comments on “Labour’s School Leavers’ Toolkit ”

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1. The decrypter 1

   14 August 2017 at 12:33 pm

   Spose joyce and co will panic about students stealing cars if they learn to drive.–or road congestion .–all to come. go jacinda.
2. greywarshark 2

   14 August 2017 at 12:47 pm

   Sounds good. It would be helpful if they would make it easier to get a driver’s licence and perhaps make that an NCEA credit and would mean you could up reading skills at the same time and computer skills, geography – where the different main roads are, so they look at NZ and learn the difference betweeen the main and regional highways, how to put on snow chains, how the car operates, why different tyre pressures in different seasons.

   This would get young adults involved in some post-school study with credit outcomes which would work better than school, once it was learning that applied to something that was relevant to them.
   • riffer 2.1

     14 August 2017 at 6:20 pm

     While I agree with what you’ve said, TBH, I’d prefer that they made it much more difficult to get a driver’s licence. The things you’ve suggested, along with teaching the basics and rules properly should do it.
3. Eco maori 3

   14 August 2017 at 12:48 pm

   Good policy but the youth need trades to may be one year of a aprentership and the employer gets a bonus when the student gets his trade tickets to prevent employers from routing the program as I’ve heard happens
4. Carolyn_nth 4

   14 August 2017 at 1:00 pm

   I like the idea of civics in schools – though, of course, it will depend on how it’s done.

   Drivers license does not seem to me to be a high priority these days (at least not in cities), and seems to support private over public transport.

   More support for apprenticeships would be a good idea.
   • garibaldi 4.1

     14 August 2017 at 1:09 pm

     Seems like these are great ideas, but are the resources available?
     I remember when compulsory Maori was introduced to Secondary schools in the seventies….great idea but what a cock up. There were not enough teachers.
     If it is going to be done it has to be done properly.
     • Cinny 4.1.1

       14 August 2017 at 2:08 pm

       G I think it would be much easier to find teachers for these subjects than for Te Reo.

       And maybe it will give some adults the option of a change of career, by adding these new subjects at school. Maybe it will inspire people to take up teaching?
     • greywarshark 4.1.2

       14 August 2017 at 2:18 pm

       Carolyn-nth
       Don’t try to insert future green policies into what needs to be done today to gather the disaffected into the comunity hug. They find that driving licences are a rite of passage, that employers regard it as an achievement, also encourage PT but let them join in where they can find a place. Idealism afterwards.
     • Gabby 4.1.3

       14 August 2017 at 4:50 pm

       Well there are all the driving schools and instructors who would probably be glad of the work, what with their livelihoods being destroyed.
   • Karen 4.2

     14 August 2017 at 2:04 pm

     Many jobs now require a driver’s licence, but particularly trade related jobs. Not having a licence is restricting employment options.

     Middle-class people think getting a licence is just something you do when you are ready – poor people don’t have the resources to do that. Quite a few (particularly Māori) eventually end up in prison just because they have been caught driving without a licence too many times.
     • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1

       14 August 2017 at 2:12 pm

       Many jobs now require a driver’s licence, but particularly trade related jobs. Not having a licence is restricting employment options.

       It’s ridiculous to require people working in a call centre to have a drivers licence and car. Public transport should be good enough.

       Really, how many jobs that require people to have a licence and a car are actually driving jobs?
       • Karen 4.2.1.1

         14 August 2017 at 2:30 pm

         I didn’t say jobs required a car – just a licence. The need for a licence is for various reasons depending on the job, but I can assure you the requirement is widespread in many industries.

         I have no idea why you think the only jobs available are in call centres, but lets go with that. Some of those jobs are shift work – ever tried getting across Auckland at night by public transport? I have.
         • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1.1

           14 August 2017 at 2:52 pm

           I didn’t say jobs required a car – just a licence.

           Why require a license if there’s no driving?

           And many jobs I’ve seen listed also require that the person owned a car – not because there’s any driving but because they demand that the person drive to work.

           Some of those jobs are shift work – ever tried getting across Auckland at night by public transport?

           Yep, done it several times. If the business is concerned about it then they should probably do due diligence and work their shifts around the PT timetable.

           I have no idea why you think the only jobs available are in call centres

           I don’t – I used it as an example of the sheer stupidity of the present reality brought about by the lack of investment by government in public transport. A lack that Labour seems to want to continue as it caters to the delusional beliefs of the businesses.
           • Karen 4.2.1.1.1.1

             14 August 2017 at 3:12 pm

             “Why require a license if there’s no driving?”

             Because you have to be able to use the office car for various tasks. This is actually very common.

             Labour also have a really good public transport policy for Auckland but it isn’t here yet. I have serious doubts that you have had to rely on after hours public transport to get across Auckland. I am a regular public transport user and I can tell you that it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to use public transport to get across some parts of Auckland outside regular commuter times.
             • Draco T Bastard …

               14 August 2017 at 3:32 pm

               Because you have to be able to use the office car for various tasks.

               So it requires driving? Courier would probably be the better option though.

               Doesn’t answer why businesses are asking for people to have drivers licences and cars for jobs that don’t require driving – like help-desks.

               I am a regular public transport user and I can tell you that it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to use public transport to get across some parts of Auckland outside regular commuter times.

               I didn’t say that it was easy just that I’d done it and, again, the reason why it’s like that is because of under-funding over the decades.

               Labour also have a really good public transport policy for Auckland but it isn’t here yet.

               Look forward to it then.
               • Karen …

                 14 August 2017 at 4:14 pm

                 Do you have any concept of how hard it is to get a job when you are young and inexperienced? Do you think you can just make demands of potential employers? Demand that they use couriers or change shift times?

                 “I didn’t say that it was easy just that I’d done it”
                 Really? What time? From where to where? If you were a regular public transport user you’d know that it is not possible at many times and in many areas. Outside the main cities it isn’t possible at all.

                 There are many jobs that require having a car: jobs in restaurants usually require staff to work past the last bus home, most cleaning jobs are early in the morning or late at night. Also, women often do not feel safe late standing around bus stops at night in some areas.
                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   14 August 2017 at 4:46 pm

                   Do you think you can just make demands of potential employers? Demand that they use couriers or change shift times?

                   I happen to think that the government should make those demands. Why should we keep propping up the uneconomic and socially debilitating actions of the businesses?

                   What time? From where to where?

                   From city out west @ 23:00

                   If you were a regular public transport user you’d know that it is not possible at many times and in many areas.

                   I am a regular public transport user – I don’t a fucken car.

                   And, yes, I do know that it’s not possible across all times and places and that comes down to that point I’ve been making all along: Under investment over decades in public transport.

                   Also, women often do not feel safe late standing around bus stops at night in some areas.

                   That is a major problem that requires a full culture change but it’s answer isn’t more fucken cars.
                 • Carolyn_nth …

                   14 August 2017 at 4:47 pm

                   Is it possible to get beyond -plate driving without your own car?

                   My experience of learning to drive was driving lessons, plus a lot of practicing in my own car.
                 • greywarshark …

                   14 August 2017 at 9:32 pm

                   How important it is to have identification with a photo on it. There is an alternative card from government? This is me or some such name. But often there will be a sign, id needed, passport, drivers licence etc.
           • red-blooded 4.2.1.1.1.2

             14 August 2017 at 6:02 pm

             Draco, there are other Labour policies promoting public transport and helping to resource it, as I’m sure you know. The fact is, though, that most young people want to be able to drive and plenty of them don’t have access to a family car or regular time with a patient and skilled family member to teach them to drive.

             Not being able to drive limits more than one’s job prospects – it limits daily life and things like holiday options, the ability to visit family and friends in other centres, the option of going to the beach or visiting a friend who lives out of town….

             I live in Dunedin – shitty bus system, no trains, lots of hills. I used to drive but can’t anymore (health issues). This really limits my mobility both around town and getting out of town. When I visit family in other centres I have to either take buses or fly. I can’t take a road trip and camp anymore unless I travel with someone else. I can’t take my dog with me when I travel.

             Basically, driving gives people options. I’m a secondary teacher. When I saw this announcement today and mentioned it to a class, the kids (who were all about 15-16) were really enthusiastic.
             • Draco T Bastard …

               14 August 2017 at 6:46 pm

               The fact is, though, that most young people want to be able to drive and plenty of them don’t have access to a family car or regular time with a patient and skilled family member to teach them to drive.

               It still may be most but the percentage is dropping and has been for sometime:

               Growing numbers of of teens are refusing to get behind the wheel, because they think cars cost too much, they’re worried they might drive into someone, or they just can’t be bothered sitting their licence.

               A worldwide trend known as “driving ambivalence” has hit young people in New Zealand. Figures show the number of teens getting their licences has dropped drastically in the past five years.

               And that was three years ago. I suspect that trend has continued.

               Also, I wouldn’t let family to teach people to drive. They’re really bad at it:

               Results
               Based on the analysis of information derived from nine focus groups, the responses of approximately 500 young drivers to a statewide survey, and analysis of more than 1.4 million Texas driver records, there is evidence to suggest that the parent-taught driver education program has a negative influence on the overall safety of novice drivers in Texas, especially in terms of young driver crash involvement.

               And don’t say that this is NZ and we’re better at it – no we aren’t.

               Not being able to drive limits more than one’s job prospects…

               But it shouldn’t which is my point. Why cling on to a failed 20th century policy?

               There are better options but we need to get the government to implement them.

               I can’t take my dog with me when I travel.

               Put them in a kennel then. Anecdote but when I was small we had a family dog and my parents were really concerned about putting her into a kennel so we could go away for the holidays. Finally put her in one, went on holiday, picked her up after and not a problem. Took her back the next year and she was really happy to be back there.
               • red-blooded …

                 15 August 2017 at 7:03 am

                 So, in your view only people whose families can afford driving lessons for all their teens should be able to get a licence? I teach kids who would be shut out of driving under that scenario – they just don’t have the money, either because they don’t earn enough or they have big families or both.

                 And kindly refrain from telling me how to feel about the consequences of not being able to drive. I’m the one who lives this, not you. You may choose not to drive (or to drive very little) – fine. Good on you. I’m the one who doesn’t get a choice and I’m the one dealing with that. We don’t all live in Auckland, mate. Down here it makes a lot more difference if you can’t drive. The kids I teach almost all go for their licenses while still st school and it makes sense for schools to be resourced to run driving programmes.

                 And BTW, I already use kennels for my dog. I’d really like to be able to take him with me when visiting family, though. Again, it’s an issue of choice. Driving gives people options. Roll on driverless cars!
                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   15 August 2017 at 4:09 pm

                   So, in your view only people whose families can afford driving lessons for all their teens should be able to get a licence?

                   No, I don’t think anybody should get a licence unless it’s necessary for work.

                   Cars are uneconomic.

                   I teach kids who would be shut out of driving under that scenario

                   Driving isn’t a right.

                   Down here it makes a lot more difference if you can’t drive.

                   I’ve lived in Dunedin and so do know the difference but the answer still isn’t more cars – it’s better public transport.
           • Westiechick 4.2.1.1.1.3

             14 August 2017 at 7:42 pm

             I heard someone say on the radio recently that drivers licenses are required because employers see it as a signal that the young person has got their shit together.
             Unfortunately the cost – hundreds for testing, lessons etc mean unless your parents have money you do not get to look like your shit is together and BTW people do need to drive in this city. I think the policy will help the problem of poor, unlicensed drivers.
         • lprent 4.2.1.1.2

           14 August 2017 at 3:00 pm

           I have as well. Not so bad if you are on the train routes. At least until the trains stop at night.

           But not only in the night. I once looked to get to Takapuna from Newton to arrive at 0630 for an interesting job with a early start time. It looks like you can do that now according to Maxx (clean out of luck if you want to get there by 0600). Then you couldn’t.

           I didn’t take that job. Who in hell wants to be driving at that time of the morning especially in the crappy weather over the bridge. But I have a lot of choice – most people don’t. Even so, I have turned down jobs in odd parts Albany, East Tamaki, Manakau and New Lynn in the last decade because the trip was long (ie a painfully expensive and time wasting place to commute by car – I can read my phone whilst driving) and the public transport links were terrible.

           I just ran around the Maxx site looking for early starts to some of the places I have worked at over the last 40 years with a 6:30 start. It isn’t good.

           For instance if I wanted to work in Stoddart Road (a light industrial area with big box retail) with a 0630 start, then I’d have to walk a kilometre over Newton Gully (not an easy walk), spend 45 minutes in the bus, then walk 1.29km to my destination. Good exercise. Not much good for anything else.

           At 0630, it’d take me 15 minutes by car.
       • Gabby 4.2.1.2

         14 August 2017 at 4:47 pm

         Depends on where it is, doesn’t it.
       • KJT 4.2.1.3

         14 August 2017 at 5:12 pm

         It is a proxy for testing if someone has enough intelligence to keep their license.

         Unfortunately the unrealistic rules, like making it illegal for young dairy and restaurant workers to drive at night, make keeping licenses difficult.
     • Eco maori 4.2.2

       14 August 2017 at 9:50 pm

       Yes that is right the poor don’t have the resources to get a license and Maori make up a large portion. of the poor when I drive around I see a lot of cars on the side of the road out of gas it looks like they are trying to get to work .The Torys will never be able to see life through a poor Maori eye’s or work out that we all benefit from helping the less privileged . Everyone has a different reality!!!!!!
   • Cinny 4.3

     14 August 2017 at 2:07 pm

     Here in Motueka people have to drive all the way to nelson city to sit their practical license, about 45 mins drive on the open road. I can imagine it would be very difficult for a student to liase and timetable with their working parent/parents to get them to their practical test. Problem solved.

     Am over the moon about civics and financial literacy, over the moon. Giving everyone that kind of knowledge will change this country for the better. 😀

     +100% re apprenticeships Carolyn, so agree with you there.
   • Gabby 4.4

     14 August 2017 at 4:45 pm

     I wouldn’t like to be lugging plate glass around town on a bus.
     • Draco T Bastard 4.4.1

       14 August 2017 at 9:02 pm

       Why would you be doing that?

       The job requires being able to drive so it’s obviously going to require a driver’s license. Two possibilities, either the business trains you as part of the job or WINZ does. I’d prefer the former as part of the apprenticeship.
5. patricia bremner 5

   14 August 2017 at 1:05 pm

   Jacinda is on a roll.

   Labour is looking better and better. Giving parents and teens a reason to vote.

   Policies aimed at youth TO MAKE THEIR LIVES BETTER.

   Driving lessons /financial knowledge /civics (being a citizen in a Democracy.)

   A toolkit for teens. Brilliant!!!!

   Compare this with the PUNITIVE policy National have rolled out.

   More boot camps. A failed old policy.

   Desperate!!!
   • Johan 5.1

     14 August 2017 at 4:02 pm

     Yes indeed Jacinda is continuing to sound and look positive. Too many greens are being negative or am I mistaken?
6. Ad 6

   14 August 2017 at 1:06 pm

   Awesome response to Nats “boot camps”.

   Tv will join the stories together for contrast.

   Everyone make sure you come along to the huge Jacinta party (launch) this weekend in Auckland.
   • BM 6.1

     14 August 2017 at 1:47 pm

     Does auto correct on peoples phones keep changing Jacinda to Jacinta?
     • Ad 6.1.1

       14 August 2017 at 3:11 pm

       Quite possibly.
     • rod 6.1.2

       15 August 2017 at 4:23 pm

       Only yours.
7. Macro 7

   14 August 2017 at 1:14 pm

   Wow! This is about as exciting as National’s Boot Camp!

   Do we really hate our young people this much?

   No wonder we are driving them to suicide in increasing numbers.
   • Johan 7.1

     14 August 2017 at 4:04 pm

     Bill English this morning explained that the boot camp was for murderers and rapists.
     Perhaps he was reading the wrong speech;
8. weka 8

   14 August 2017 at 1:23 pm

   Throw in cooking and gardening skills 😉
   • Macro 8.1

     14 August 2017 at 1:41 pm

     Don’t forget making the bed, and tiding the room!
     • marty mars 8.1.1

       14 August 2017 at 1:52 pm

       I’m okay with this but I’d like to see skills taught that will help for the world as it’s becoming, not as it was.
       • weka 8.1.1.1

         14 August 2017 at 2:05 pm

         Me too.

         There is the potential for this it be done in a bad way (which I assume is what Macro is pointing to). What life skills and whose values will those be based on?
         • weka 8.1.1.1.1

           14 August 2017 at 2:19 pm

           “rights and responsibilities” Ug.
       • greywarshark 8.1.1.2

         14 August 2017 at 3:19 pm

         But the world as it is becoming is going back to what it was.
         So teaching people to be practical, look after the basics, avoid alcohol and drugs as much as possible, learn how to make your own fun, learn the guitar, cope with technology but always try to do it yourself so you don’t start losing the use of your brain, learn how to read and become voracious and sometimes do a lucky dip and try to cope with new material, and don’t start regression till you look like an amoeba – that’s too way back.
     • weka 8.1.2

       14 August 2017 at 2:04 pm

       what’s the problem Macro? I’d love to have been taught civics at school. And gardening. (I’m of the generation that was taught cooking and woodwork).
       • mac1 8.1.2.1

         14 August 2017 at 2:20 pm

         My generation, too. But gardening/agriculture is taught in NZ schools, as is cooking and some civics in Social Studies. They might not be taught to all students, though.

         I was a health teacher in a rural town and I am bemused by the call today for “consent” to be taught in schools. I did that for years as part of the relationships course- to all students. But obviously not in all schools, as appropriate.

         These subjects as mentioned in comments here and in NZLP policy are all worthwhile and a good teacher will make sure the material is current and relevant.
         • Macro 8.1.2.1.1

           14 August 2017 at 4:49 pm

           My daughter has been a facilitator for the past year on the “Mates and Dates” programme funded by ACC.
           Why funded by ACC? – because of the increasing number of sexual abuse cases in teenagers.
           Believe me this programme is very needed in all our schools. She reports that some of the worst examples of sexual abuse and misunderstanding around consent come from schools in the rural sector. It’s also not just a programme on consent – but also on the understanding of sexual identification and individual expression.
           ACC is now about to implement a similar programme into tertiary institutions following the success of the “Mates and Dates” programme in Secondary.
           • mac1 8.1.2.1.1.1

             14 August 2017 at 5:27 pm

             Absolutely in all our schools, Macro. I hope that modern courses are even better than what we taught.
       • Macro 8.1.2.2

         14 August 2017 at 4:36 pm

         After 15 years in the Navy I then returned to my earlier profession of secondary teaching. We wrinklies might get all enthusiastic about teaching gardening, civics, driving, and financial management, but most of these are (or can be) incorporated into the current curriculum already. They may not be the chosen topics of some students however – but really does this matter? Civics is a compulsory subject in US schools – but we can’t say that that has made much difference to the standard of political debate in that country when the current incumbent as President is so completely ignorant of his role – and all his supporters are blind to it.
         https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/11/is-trumps-victory-the-jump-start-civics-education-needed/507293/
         I can already hear the groans –
         “What’s next period?”
         “Civics”.
         One year I had a year 12 “vege maths” group and a pretty free hand to do much as I wanted. I divided the course up into a series of blocks that included “Navigation”, Surveying”, “Time Series”, “Finance”, and “Gambling – Roulette, dice, horse racing,” we approached all of these topics from a practical point of view and investigated the mathematics behind each one to show just how the mathematical modelling could have predicted the outcomes we experienced.
         I’m not saying all students will despair – and if handled in an appropriate way these can be engaging for all. But if its something added on to a teachers already groaning work load ….. ( I know from reports from my daughter there is no way I would want to go back into a classroom today.
     • greywarshark 8.1.3

       14 August 2017 at 3:14 pm

       Don’t bother about the bed, just straighten the bottom sheet and the duvet, done
       Bed making is for nurses.
       Tidying – two laundry baskets. Everything current in one, dirty in the other.

       But what about the hints for operating the washing machine and not mucking up your clothes, fluffy in one wash and darks in another, and remembering to hang them up quickly before they sit and smell.
   • Glenn 8.2

     14 August 2017 at 2:05 pm

     And First Aid and CPR.
     • Cinny 8.2.1

       14 August 2017 at 2:14 pm

       i think you might find it’s already taught in High School Glenn, part of health or PE.

       I know my kids were taught basic first aid and CPR at primary with St Johns.

       Re the gardening Weka, Enviro Schools at primary school grow gardens and veges. I help them out with it on a weekly basis

       http://www.enviroschools.org.nz/
       • weka 8.2.1.1

         14 August 2017 at 2:20 pm

         Yes, I was thinking about school leaver level, but all through would be great.

         +1 Glenn.
9. Cinny 9

   14 August 2017 at 2:01 pm

   AWESOMESAUCE.. want to get tough on crime? Then educate people to help lift them out of poverty.

   Literally did a fist pump when I heard the announcement.

   Drivers License, Financial Literacy and understanding their democratic rights, oh hell YES!

   Super happy with Labour, big up’s to Chris Hipkins, Jacinda and everyone else involved in putting this together. I’m voting Labour this election
10. UncookedSelachimorpha 10

    14 August 2017 at 2:06 pm

    A very positive policy from Labour, in stark contrast to National’s failed populist but discredited rubbish.
11. Draco T Bastard 11

    14 August 2017 at 2:07 pm

    Having a driving licence so you can get to work

    Is a failure of government in not providing adequate public transport.

    knowing how to fit into a workplace

    IIRC, We used to actually celebrate our individual differences and now we have to conform to what the Boss wants.

    and learn how our political system operates through civics education at school. Every secondary school will be resourced to provide these courses.

    I wonder if they’re also going to increase minimum leaving age to 21 to cover all these extra areas of learning?

    I’m supportive of better civics learning especially if they also teach them the inadequacies of our system. But it’s a time thing – more learning requires more time.
    • KJT 11.1

      14 August 2017 at 4:45 pm

      DTB. I don’t think public transport is the whole solution in rural and small towns.
      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1

        14 August 2017 at 4:49 pm

        My nephew just got a job in a small town down south. The business sends a bus to pick everyone up in the mornings and drop them home at night.
        • KJT 11.1.1.1

          14 August 2017 at 5:13 pm

          Rare.
          • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1.1.1

            14 August 2017 at 5:33 pm

            True but it does represent a more economical model than everyone having cars.
      • Carolyn_nth 11.1.2

        14 August 2017 at 4:50 pm

        I think learning to drive is probably a necessity in small and rural towns. Not so much in big cities. i know people in Sydney and London who relied on public transport and taxis. Taxis cost out as efficient when needed because of the cost of owning and running a car.
12. woodpecker 12

    14 August 2017 at 2:09 pm

    Law…employment contracts, loan agreements, lease or tenancy agreements.
    • weka 12.1

      14 August 2017 at 2:21 pm

      Oooh, that’s good.
    • WILD KATIPO 12.2

      14 August 2017 at 3:04 pm

      Politics … and how to campaign AGAINST the Employment Contracts Act.
      • Eco maori 12.2.1

        14 August 2017 at 5:50 pm

        I agree with wild Katipo is it a coincidence that the 90 clause is as long as calving.A person can work hard and be punctual do nothing wrong and on day 89 get sacked and have to move house in 2 weeks WTF
        • alwyn 12.2.1.1

          14 August 2017 at 9:23 pm

          “is it a coincidence that the 90 clause is as long as calving”
          What animal are you talking about?
          It sure as hell isn’t a domestic cow which is what most people think of when one talks about “calving”.
          http://articles.extension.org/pages/39353/how-long-does-a-cows-pregnancy-last
          • KJT 12.2.1.1.1

            14 August 2017 at 9:35 pm

            Showing your ignorance again. Alwyn.

            The extra work around calving typically takes about three months.

            I know several young people that have got a job at the beginning of calving, then been sacked before 90 days when calving is almost finished.
    • KJT 12.3

      14 August 2017 at 5:59 pm

      Last time it was suggested we teach anything about work rights and debt, in schools, there was a huge storm of protest from financial institutions and employers Unions.

      Only unthinking cannon fodder for industry is required.
13. mary_a 13

    14 August 2017 at 2:10 pm

    Civics education in schools is something I’ve been hoping and waiting for, for a long time. Giving students the opportunity to learn their responsibilities to society, is so necessary. This is a progressive move.

    Along with the rest of the School leavers’ toolkit, it all sounds good to me. Well done Labour.

    Now try and beat that one Natz!
14. mosa 14

    14 August 2017 at 2:10 pm

    Never thought i would say it but i want to go back to school.
    • alwyn 14.1

      14 August 2017 at 9:25 pm

      Come on, admit it.
      The happiest days of your life were the 3 years you spent in standard 4.
      • mosa 14.1.1

        14 August 2017 at 11:18 pm

        Yeah alwyn we had we had smart arses like you that nobody liked and were just a distraction to the rest of the class.
15. Keith 15

    14 August 2017 at 2:10 pm

    Great stuff.

    Are Labour going to revive night classes at schools for adults?

    This was a really effective way to up-skill affordably. And for reasons I can not work out apart from blind ideology and another way to pay for tax cuts, National got rid of them.
    • Karen 15.1

      14 August 2017 at 2:32 pm

      Yes, reinstating adult night classes has already been announced.
      • alwyn 15.1.1

        14 August 2017 at 9:31 pm

        When was that announced?
        I have been told that the major reason they were scrapped had nothing to do with the Government.
        According to a teacher friend of mine many schools wanted to get rid of them because it involved having to allow the school to be open after the normal end of the school day. It had nothing to do with the taxpayer subsidies. Schools generally scrapped them even if people were willing to pay. The abolishment of the subsidies for hobby classes was used by the schools as an excuse to get rid of them completely.
        Some schools still run them and they remain very popular in those places.
        • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1.1

          14 August 2017 at 10:28 pm

          I have been told that the major reason they were scrapped had nothing to do with the Government.

          It had everything to do with the government. They cut funding so that they couldn’t be kept going despite being hugely popular. Probably has something to do the education/trafficking scam that’s arisen lately.

          And, we need more than anecdote about why they suddenly died out when government cut funding.

          The abolishment of the subsidies for hobby classes was used by the schools as an excuse to get rid of them completely.

          Many of the classes were skill classes that were really good for work. But I’m not surprised to find RWNJ, showing their complete ignorance again, dismissing it as ‘hobby classes’ as if they were completely useless.
          • alwyn 15.1.1.1.1

            15 August 2017 at 9:08 am

            The link you provide directly show the errors in your comments.
            When I look at the link I find that the courses offered are all in 2017, ie NOW.
            How can that possibly tie in with your claim that “they couldn’t be kept going despite being hugely popular”.
            These schools certainly did keep them going.

            Most schools however did not make any such attempt. Some of the Wellington schools scrapped all night classes, even though there were people who were quite happy to pay higher fees. A few still offer them and people appear quite happy to pay for them..

            The Government refused to continue paying subsidies for peoples hobby classes. They did not, as far as I am aware, cut out all funding. It was the choice of many of the schools to cut out all the courses. As my friend told me they simply didn’t want to have to open up their premises in the evenings. It had nothing to do with whether people were willing to pay for the course. It was simply too much trouble.

            Meanwhile, can you answer the first line of the comment.
            When did the Labour Party announce the reinstallation of the courses?
            • Draco T Bastard 15.1.1.1.1.1

              15 August 2017 at 3:27 pm

              How can that possibly tie in with your claim that “they couldn’t be kept going despite being hugely popular”.

              Some were kept going, many were cut.

              Most schools however did not make any such attempt.

              Still, that would be an assertion on your part. Everything we have indicates that they did the figures and realised that they couldn’t do it even with higher fees.

              The Government refused to continue paying subsidies for peoples hobby classes.

              Classes that returned a huge benefit:

              These school-based programmes are part of a wider adult and community learning sector that delivers a considerable economic benefit to New Zealand. They are a lifeline for many people living in every community.

              Why would any government do that?

              When did the Labour Party announce the reinstallation of the courses?

              Everything you need to know just here.
          • KJT 15.1.1.1.2

            15 August 2017 at 9:14 am

            As one of the Teachers in a skills course, that had to be cut when the funding went, i can say, Alwyn, you are, as usual, talking crap.
            • alwyn 15.1.1.1.2.1

              15 August 2017 at 12:34 pm

              And why, pray tell us why was this course one that ” that had to be cut when the funding went”.
              What school was it that did that and what attempt did they make to find whether the people who were taking, or might in the future want to take, the course(s) would be willing to actually pay for the course?
              I suspect, like a lot of schools, they made no attempt at all to keep going.
              Certainly the link that DTB provided shows a very large number of courses, at a group of schools, that people seem to be only too willing to pay for.
              Perhaps you should see whether they are willing to promote your training and organise a suitable course?

              And should you happen to know. When did the Labour Party announce the reintroduction of subsidised night classes?
16. Eco maori 16

    14 August 2017 at 2:23 pm

    If we invest in our youth right the return will great it’s the same argument don’t wait till the youth get in the shit and try and turn them around you get them into good work effects and they will never settle for the dole.
    Instead of Bill’s idea of fucken boot camp at 100.000 a year
17. marty mars 17

    14 August 2017 at 2:38 pm

    Managing distress and emotions, interpersonal skills, how to seek help when it gets tough, how to help others who are struggling.
    • Karen 17.1

      14 August 2017 at 4:16 pm

      We all need that right throughout our lives, I think, but starting at school would be good.
    • red-blooded 17.2

      14 August 2017 at 6:09 pm

      These are the sorts of core interpersonal skills that are central to the Health curriculum already, marty.

      I think this is an awesome policy, and as a secondary teacher I can see it working really well.
      • marty mars 17.2.1

        14 August 2017 at 6:13 pm

        Good to hear thanks
18. WILD KATIPO 18

    14 August 2017 at 3:08 pm

    Civics training should always have been mandatory, it would have helped to develop critical thinking in so many ways, from biased news reporting to statements that obviously don’t add up and the consequences of policy’s in a social sense.

    So this is good from Labour. An involved / informed citizenry is an empowered one.
    • mary_a 18.1

      14 August 2017 at 4:18 pm

      @ WK (18) … Your statement … “An involved / informed citizenry is an empowered one.”

      The thought of that should put the wind up Herr Joyce. Not something Natz would like at all. Kiwis able to weigh up situations, question spin enabling them to make decisions through critical thinking? Good grief that would be quite intimidating to the Natz!

      Can’t wait to hear what Joyce has to say on this one from Labour. No doubt spinning some BS as we type.
      • Whispering Kate 18.1.1

        14 August 2017 at 4:31 pm

        + 100
    • SpaceMonkey 18.2

      15 August 2017 at 4:52 pm

      “An involved /informed citizenry is an empowered one”

      That’s precisely why it ISN’T taught in schools today.
19. Carolyn_nth 19

    14 August 2017 at 4:58 pm

    David Seymour doesn’t like the idea of teaching civics, cos it’s a leftie thing and they will teach positive things about unions.

    So, it must be a good thing, then.
    • BM 19.1

      14 August 2017 at 6:00 pm

      He has got a point, the teachers unions do seem to have a hell of a lot of say in how our schools are run.

      If it can be taught in a neutral way without teachers or teacher unions sticking their ideological oar in then I think teaching civics is a really good idea.

      It is rather disappointing how few people actually know how government operates or how the government pays for everything.
      • red-blooded 19.1.1

        14 August 2017 at 6:20 pm

        “The teachers’ unions” are professional associations, not just unions, BM. They (along with the various subject associations) are the organisations that represent teachers when curricula and assessment practices are being reviewed, for example. The PPTA has a membership that sits around 90% – that’s because it’s a multi-faceted organisation that works on a lot of fronts. It’s not politically affiliated, though, and there are good reasons for that. Do you imagine that 90% of teachers share the same ideology?
        • In Vino 19.1.1.1

          14 August 2017 at 6:45 pm

          Let me say it for him.

          BM hates all unions – especially teacher unions, because they were the best at resisting the destruction of unions. He will not admit that teacher unions are actually professional Associations (PPTA was by legislation forced to become a union, but still bears the name “Association”) and he will accuse them of being evil, self-interested ‘provider-capture’ agents, which will destroy any progress in education. Not that he knows much about education (or real progress for that matter?) but he will endlessly parrot an anti-teacher-union line, and there is little point in trying to make him see truth.
          • In Vino 19.1.1.1.1

            14 August 2017 at 8:51 pm

            Well, I appear to be a conversation-killer. I have noticed before that if BM gets a hard blast that has no easy answer, he gives no reply. He just jumps up later on another thread with the same drivel. I guess that this will happen with his anti-teacher-union drivel.
            • Incognito 19.1.1.1.1.1

              14 August 2017 at 9:32 pm

              He’s just gobsmacked.
      • WILD KATIPO 19.1.2

        14 August 2017 at 9:22 pm

        The only point David Seymour has is the knob on top of his head.

        The guys a Class A Rimmer.

        Nobody but Roger Douglas likes him.
      • UncookedSelachimorpha 19.1.3

        14 August 2017 at 11:43 pm

        “how the government pays for everything.”

        No, members of society pay for everything.
20. Ethica 20

    14 August 2017 at 9:15 pm

    I see that some National Party aligned school principals have come out against the driving policy. Not sure why they would except for ideological reasons. A lot of school principals and senior management are politically conservative.
21. Craig H 21

    15 August 2017 at 11:01 am

    Practical life knowledge and skills should be compulsory, but it often gets taught in schools anyway. I went to school from 1985 – 1997, and learnt civics (basics of jury duty, Parliament and MPs, FPP and MMP), consumer rights and other useful info (Consumer Guarantees Act, working out the cost of finance, buying a car) and budgeting. Most of this was taught in Social Studies and Economics. Also learning the basics of employment law, tenancy laws and career planning seems like it would be useful.

    I agree with teaching driving because sometimes the nature of life is that it will be useful, even if only to provide additional options.

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