Lusk papers 2 – selling out to America

Written By: - Date published: 9:21 am, June 2nd, 2013 - 248 comments
Categories: kremlinology, national, us politics - Tags: ,

Here’s the second of the Lusk papers that we were leaked, as was to be covered in today’s Sunday Star Times.

This paper confirms that factions a faction within National sees New Zealand as a vassal of America, and wants to see American influence (and American money) gain control over our politics.

“This document outlines an organisation for United States citizens to build a firm, reliable, long term ally in New Zealand. The organisation will support politicians and aspiring politicians in New Zealand with the medium term aim of having an enduring centre right majority, with a pro United States outlook on the world stage.”

To run a successful operation a minimum of NZD$300,000 per annum needs to be available, with a considerable amount of this spent in election years.

An initial capital investment of $5m will allow the organisation to run off the investment returns, with a conservative investment strategy.

Once again, the leaking of these documents is evidence of the civil war going on within the National Party…

248 comments on “Lusk papers 2 – selling out to America ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Jimmie 1
    2 June 2013 at 9:37 am

    No offense but that is pretty tame.

    The main thing I get from it is that Lusk likes the US and was trying to write his own job description – in other words create a job for himself.

    And we know that the Nats have rejected this proposal and have treated Lusk like a noxious weed.

    So again how is this a sign of anything apart from someone coming down heavy on Lusk (and possibly WO?)

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.1
      2 June 2013 at 9:44 am

      “..the Nats… have treated Lusk like a noxious weed.”

      Reality check. Sam Lotu Liga, maiden speech: “…the shrewd counsel of Simon Lusk.”

    • mickysavage 1.2
      2 June 2013 at 9:46 am

      You are not concerned that a senior member of the National Party with strong links to possibly the next leader wants to sell the country’s soul to the Americans?

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 1.2.1
        2 June 2013 at 9:48 am

        He’s conflicted. Every dismal authoritarian fibre of his being wants to genuflect to the money god, but the lying Prime Minister has told him “no”.

        Result? Denial.

    • Murray Olsen 1.3
      2 June 2013 at 4:29 pm

      Obviously part of this is Lusk and WhaleSpew trying to feather their own nests, and National (as well as half of Labour) has always cuddled up to the seppos. The National Party in particular seems to think they serve the American nation. What is new is that Lusk is pushing the extreme right fundamentalist Koch bros. Teabagger rubbish, whereas most of NAct has felt more in common with what they would see as sensible Republicanism. Shearer and co. feel drawn to that part of the Democrats which keeps Gitmo open, funds Blackwater (or Xe or Academia these days), prosecutes Bradley Manning, and spreads terror among the swarthy skinned via drone. It was Labour who imported the War of Terror to the Ureweras. It was Labour who imported Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand, and they have never faced up to this.

      Both parties also have no objection to importing Tory rubbish from England when it suits them either. I understand the doctor who compares benefits to drug addiction was first imported by Labour, for example.

      In short, the only signs of any independence and local thinking are coming from Mana and the Greens, especially now that Cunliffe is effectively silenced.

  2. TheContrarian 2
    2 June 2013 at 9:41 am

    While I am not particularly anti-American the US political system is such an enormous cluster-fuck that I question the sanity of anyone who’d think it wise to replicate it here.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 2.1
      2 June 2013 at 9:46 am

      The sanity, or the greed?

      The US political system works pretty well for you if you’re astonishingly wealthy.

      • TheContrarian 2.1.1
        2 June 2013 at 9:49 am

        I am not talking about money – I’m talking about the hyper-partisan, dead-locked congress with special interests having more power than the law-makers. Forget the money for a second, the system is such a confusing mess that it makes it nearly impossible to actually get anything done.

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 2.1.1.1
          2 June 2013 at 9:50 am

          …unless you’re one of those “special interests”.

        • mickysavage 2.1.1.2
          2 June 2013 at 10:17 am

          The system would work a lot better if the Republicans were not so pathologically insane …

          • TheContrarian 2.1.1.2.1
            2 June 2013 at 10:25 am

            The Democrats aren’t all that great either (at least they are scientifically literate though).

            • mickysavage 2.1.1.2.1.1
              2 June 2013 at 11:00 am

              Agreed. The situation is similar politically in that both countries political systems require a certain standard of decency to work. If one party wishes to push things to the extreme (eg US budget sabotage or NZ use of urgency) things can start to break down pretty quickly.

          • Matthew Whitehead 2.1.1.2.2
            3 June 2013 at 8:08 pm

            There’s a not insignificant faction of them that aren’t pathologically insane, they’re simply maximally corrupt.

        • xtasy 2.1.1.3
          3 June 2013 at 11:06 am

          The Contrarian – while you have a point of argument re the US political system not being one to aspire to, how “great” is the present system here? It is a one chamber Parliament, where a governing party can get away with two hangers-ons (Dodgy Banksy and now equally dodgy Dunney Boy) to run an almost dictatorial regime, pushing through laws that even breach the constitutional laws of the country.

          Using select committee and other processes as nothing more than “theatrical side-shows”, where submitters are fooled into believing they will have any chance of input and thus achieve some changes in drawn up bills, then afterwards just pushing them aside, ridiculing them as irrelevant objectors and “progress hating” citizens that “hold up” what “needs doing” “for the country’s good”, ignoring the vast amounts of submissions and pushing laws through disregarding, that is not a system I desire.

          No second chamber, no extra scrutiny and no further input being allowed, this enables governments to push through laws breaching the Bill of Rights Act, the Human Rights Act and possibly more.

          We certainly do not need and do not want rich US American business and right wing political strategists to have any such influence in New Zealand as any people like Simon Lusk, or any others for that sake want to achieve.

          By the way, the Nats do not bother with self-interest pursuing Lusk and other nutters, they have already a fairly good set of networks in business, local body politics, in key roles in government departments, on Commissions and where-ever else you look. Do not underestimate their good connections to leading media personalities, in strategic communication positions, where the media almost serves as their propaganda arm!

          They can nominate or indirectly arrange to have nominated and appointed the people they want, to bring the achievements they seek, without some Lusky idiot fishing murky waters in Hawke’s Bay and other places. That is the reality, so no surprise they tell him to go and take a hike up the hills, they simply do not need his advice, as they have other advice serving their interest in other places already!

    • Seriously Susan 2.2
      2 June 2013 at 10:27 am

      I could say quite safely that the ‘Supercity’ concept was probably inspired by an American concept?

    • felix 2.3
      2 June 2013 at 4:35 pm

      TheContrarian, the problem isn’t really that he wants to replicate the U.S. system (although I agree that’s a bad enough idea on its own), it’s that he wants to encourage U.S. interests to buy a stake in our system.

      And that’s far, far worse. He’s talking about selling our sovereignty, and there’s a very nasty word for that.

  3. Melb 3
    2 June 2013 at 10:01 am

    “This paper confirms that factions within National”

    So where in the paper does it show that anybody else other than the author wanted this type of arrangement….three years ago?

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 3.1
      2 June 2013 at 10:04 am

      Slippery showed that when he name-checked Lusk the other day. If our Randian superhero were a nobody, do you suppose the lying Prime Minister would be commenting?

    • r0b 3.2
      2 June 2013 at 10:10 am

      Lusk is strongly associated with Collins and her supporters, and has “mentored” a few MPs into Parliament (we know from his papers that those MPs will be those that he deems to hold appropriate views). Hence Lusk represents a faction within National.

    • rosy 3.3
      2 June 2013 at 6:00 pm

      three years ago?

      Lusk’s paper has been floating around NAct circles for 3 years and they’ve only now ditched him?

  4. Vagabundo 4
    2 June 2013 at 10:01 am

    So who do you reckon the source of the leaks is? I’m thinking either Joyce or someone reasonably close to him.

  5. Brett Dale 5
    2 June 2013 at 10:23 am

    Boy an anti American post at the standard, that hasn’t happen before.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 5.1
      2 June 2013 at 10:27 am

      On the other hand, an idiot with a strawman seems to show up every day.

    • mickysavage 5.2
      2 June 2013 at 10:36 am

      Boy a content free comment by a RWNJ, that hasn’t happened before.

    • Murray Olsen 5.3
      2 June 2013 at 4:35 pm

      Anti prostrating ourselves before them as a colony in all but name is not the same as anti-American, but the difference is probably a bit subtle for you. For all your bluster, you Randian superheroes are scared to get up off your knees – you need and desire someone bigger to care for you. Get over your dependence, break free.

    • felix 5.4
      2 June 2013 at 4:38 pm

      Boy Brett Dale doesn’t understand what the post is saying at all, that hasn’t happened before.

      • QoT 5.4.1
        2 June 2013 at 5:11 pm

        Dammit, felix, don’t you understand that he’s actually very cleverly trying to spin people’s perception of the post? I mean, it won’t work because it’s patently stupid and Brett has no cred here, but A for effort.

        • Brett Dale 5.4.1.1
          2 June 2013 at 5:16 pm

          Really QOT?

          New Zealand’s largest left wing site does a post that paints America in a negative way, this same old USA bashing wont win you guys any elections, it just turns people off now.

          • felix 5.4.1.1.1
            2 June 2013 at 5:54 pm

            Could you please point to the USA bashing in the post Brett?

            And don’t say ‘the whole thing’. Quote the actual words that bash the USA.

            • Brett Dale 5.4.1.1.1.1
              2 June 2013 at 6:00 pm

              “Selling out to the usa”

              I would considered that usa bashing, Im guessing it got the blood pumping by the readers of the standard.

              • Colonial Viper …
                2 June 2013 at 6:01 pm

                Selling out to the USA is in fact NZ bashing, if you hadn’t noticed.

          • karol 5.4.1.1.2
            2 June 2013 at 6:16 pm

            You seem not to have noticed that the US is more than it’s government: more than the Democrat and Republican parties combined plus its banksters and other 1%ers.

            The occupy all Street people, for instance are an example of a great initiative by some USians.

          • peterlepaysan 5.4.1.1.3
            2 June 2013 at 10:51 pm

            Brett
            You really think US Wall street traders should run this country?
            You already have Shon Key.

            What more do you want? A dynasty, a la North Korea?
            Or would you prefer

          • xtasy 5.4.1.1.4
            3 June 2013 at 11:22 am

            Brett Dale

            I am “pro American” by the way, meaning for the more progressive forces there, whether in North America, Central America, South America or the Caribbean.

            Do not slander this thread and commenters as “anti American”, as you are using simplistic, fake arguments of no substance to blather on about irrelevant stuff here.

            Next you call this all “anti New Zealand”, right?!

      • Brett Dale 5.4.2
        2 June 2013 at 5:57 pm

        I blame the misleading headline.

        • felix 5.4.2.1
          2 June 2013 at 6:19 pm

          What’s misleading about it?

        • xtasy 5.4.2.2
          3 June 2013 at 11:25 am

          Maybe could have been more specific, that one, I agree, but we know what is meant in that relation, by looking at the details referred to and presented.

  6. Yes 6
    2 June 2013 at 10:25 am

    This is so tame – this is a business plan for Lusk to build a consultancy business. Nothing more. I could you 1,000 of business plans up and down the country – wierd ideas etc. I beat you $100,000,000.00

    the following has happened in these business plans

    Greens party – write to greenpeace and ask for a donation
    Labour party – write to the unions and ask fro a donation

    Pretty simple plans – this is a non-story and quite frankly boring.

    Now have you guys worked out yet how to stop russell getting all the headlines.

    I want to vote labour but cant find out who is in charge?

    • paul andersen 6.1
      2 June 2013 at 10:32 am

      at least with labour you know its someone in N Z. as for the nats, who knows where the strings are pulled from.

      • Yes 6.1.1
        2 June 2013 at 11:32 am

        And Russell Norman is from where?

      • The Pink Postman 6.1.2
        2 June 2013 at 2:19 pm

        Well P,.ndersen.The Nats are influenced by two prganizations.
        The most influential is the Democratic Union consisting of the
        Liberal and National parties of Australia .UK Conservative Party .Most Conservative Parties (sime very Right-Wing) and of course the most influential The Republican Party USA.
        The other soursce of influence is of course Crosby Textor,
        I dont think there is any doubt the the USA Republicans have a lot of say innthe NZ National Party remember the “Gone by Lunch Time ” issue and Republica

      • The Pink Postman 6.1.3
        2 June 2013 at 2:19 pm

        Well P,.ndersen.The Nats are influenced by two prganizations.
        The most influential is the Democratic Union consisting of the
        Liberal and National parties of Australia .UK Conservative Party .Most Conservative Parties (sime very Right-Wing) and of course the most influential The Republican Party USA.
        The other soursce of influence is of course Crosby Textor,
        I dont think there is any doubt the the USA Republicans have a lot of say innthe NZ National Party remember the “Gone by Lunch Time ” issue and Republica

      • UpandComer 6.1.4
        2 June 2013 at 11:05 pm

        Labour would take money and has taken money from anyone it can, such as Owen Glenn, uber rich prick himself, but as Owen found out, and the mad butcher, Labour despises these people while taking their money. That’s pretty much the animating characteristic of how the Labour party works.

        • fender 6.1.4.1
          2 June 2013 at 11:28 pm

          Did these uber rich not receive the goods they were trying to buy? Hope they asked for a refund.

          Should change your name to BeenThereDoneThat since you know how the LP works.

    • One Anonymous Knucklehead 6.2
      2 June 2013 at 10:33 am

      Which guys? Us Green voters? Are you having trouble with MMP again?

      It’s a proportional electoral system that encourages coalition governments. Do you understand what those long words mean, and the im-pli-ca-tions?

      Or perhaps you’re simply cognitively challenged, and haven’t noticed that The Standard is a Left blog?

      Oh, and do you think your lies about your voting intentions say anything other than “I’m a tool”?

      We need better wingnuts.

    • mickysavage 6.3
      2 June 2013 at 10:38 am

      You must have missed the bit where they want to make New Zealand a vassal state of the US.

      • Populuxe1 6.3.1
        3 June 2013 at 6:53 pm

        If that’s the way the world is going, I think I’d rather be a vassal of the US than a vassal of China

    • Pete 6.4
      2 June 2013 at 12:10 pm

      Here’s the list of Green Party donations over $1500 in the last election year. The only organisation contributing to them is Fletcher Building, with a $20k donation (I presume their insulation programme has made Fletchers a bit of money). The rest of the large donations come from the MPs themselves.

      Now I’m sure there are Greenpeace members who make their own contributions to the Greens (just as I, an Amnesty International member have donated to Labour), but claiming that Greenpeace funds the Green Party is, well, a lie.

      • Yes 6.4.1
        2 June 2013 at 1:09 pm

        Goes to show the only who believe in them are their own MPs

        • Colonial Viper 6.4.1.1
          2 June 2013 at 1:15 pm

          Well, there’s nothing more here to worry your pretty little head about then.

        • Pascal's bookie 6.4.1.2
          2 June 2013 at 8:09 pm

          Also goes to show you’re a bullshit artist. Let’s not forget the point now.

    • Jeff 6.5
      2 June 2013 at 5:16 pm

      This not just a business plan! It might be considered such if the guy was a non-entity but when you check out the Nasty Nat record you see that it all fits! If someone had tried this lark at the time of Elizabeth 1 it would have been quick step to the Tower and its gallows fro high treason.

      • Colonial Viper 6.5.1
        2 June 2013 at 5:20 pm

        an attempt to subvert the constitutional independence of the nation. Serious one that.

      • Yes 6.5.2
        2 June 2013 at 7:31 pm

        Written in 2010..so last decade

        • Pascal's bookie 6.5.2.1
          2 June 2013 at 7:36 pm

          Yep. the party has known about for all this time, since last decade even, and they are only moving against it now.

          • rosy 6.5.2.1.1
            2 June 2013 at 8:18 pm

            So what were they doing with these papers between last century and now? Were they gathering dust in a filing cabinet or did they see the light of day in Cabinet? Maybe they got an airing, along with some expensive wine, at a lunch meeting or two?

    • xtasy 6.6
      3 June 2013 at 11:39 am

      Quoted from that leaked document:

      “Funding

      The United States has a large donor culture, and wealthy donors that can contribute to political causes they believe in. This is not the case in almost all other western democracies.”

      Yes, pretty “tame” for those that just love such manipulative, quasi almost “vote buying tactics” in politics. It is “tame” for “yes” sayers, all along, for “boot-lickers”, of which there are also many in New Zealand politics, on both sides of the House by the way.

      I admit, that apart from perhaps one or two hands full of Nat MPs, there will be few, who would discretely, privately, in their hearts, would not agree with “assisting” their causes in such manner. And they also love the US political right, same as the UK political right, and also the Australian political right, and surely, there are more than the odd friendly chats with those leaders from those fractions overseas, that take place, between John Key and others here, and the ones there.

      Also are political donations coming primarily from business and similar core lobby groups in New Zealand, who always have a bit more “easy” cash than ordinary workers, let along beneficiaries, than also small business operators, contractors and the likes, who may be inclined to support Labour, Greens or others.

      So there is an unbalance already, favouring very much the business sector here, just on a smaller scale than in the US, partly due to legal restrictions now in place.

  7. Colonial Viper 7
    2 June 2013 at 10:37 am

    Hey so how come our meat is still stranded on Chinese wharves?

  8. Matt 8
    2 June 2013 at 10:49 am

    As an American there are things I feel obligated to apologize for, but this isn’t one of them. This is not American meddling and it’s not selling out to Americans or Republicans, who couldn’t care less.

    Lusk and his homegrown gang of bastards may want to emulate the worst of American political fustercluckery, but they’re still on you. Just saying.

    • paul andersen 8.1
      2 June 2013 at 2:05 pm

      point taken mate.

      • felix 8.1.1
        2 June 2013 at 4:44 pm

        Don’t. He doesn’t have one.

        • Matt 8.1.1.1
          2 June 2013 at 5:57 pm

          Your wanting it to be so doesn’t make it so.

          I have seen this strange dichotomy in the narrative that keeps reappearing here and elsewhere when Kiwis talk about themselves. It combines both an inflated sense of NZ’s own ‘strategic’ importance and a perception that NZ punches way above its weight in regional – if not global – affairs, and at the same time there is this tendency to blame everything that’s wrong in your own country on someone else.

          Guess what, John Key isn’t anyone else’s fault, nor is National, nor is Peter Jackson, nor is Slimon Lusk. Fletcher. Fonterra. Telecom. No one has ever screwed Kiwis over anywhere near as much as other Kiwis.

          They don’t do it because the’re closet Americans, or British, or whatever bogeyman you want to dump responsibility onto, they do it because they want money. Pretending otherwise just makes you look silly.

          • felix 8.1.1.1.1
            2 June 2013 at 6:23 pm

            “Your wanting it to be so doesn’t make it so.”

            Then you’ll be able to point out what the post says about American meddling, won’t you?

            And you’ll be able to point out the bit that even vaguely suggests that you or any other American or anyone except Lusk has anything to apologise for in this regard.

            Won’t you?

            Soon as you do I’ll read the rest of your comment.

            • Matt 8.1.1.1.1.1
              2 June 2013 at 6:26 pm

              I don’t give a damn what you read or don’t. You can’t sell out if there isn’t a buyer, and so far the only place one exists is in Lusk’s imagination.

              • felix …
                2 June 2013 at 6:44 pm

                So nothing then? All in your wee headsy?

                Maybe you and Brett could start a remedial reading and emotional support group for morons with persecution complexes and twitchy knees.

                • TheContrarian …
                  2 June 2013 at 6:48 pm

                  Wow, you’re a dick. Too much ethanol in your fermentation process dude.

                • Matt …
                  2 June 2013 at 6:56 pm

                  I am the most erudite moron around, also the tallest midget.

                  I guess the irony is that all I initially said was that this is not American meddling (which it isn’t, right?). Maybe we can carpool to class.

                  • TheContrarian …
                    2 June 2013 at 7:01 pm

                    Felix is an argumentative knob, Matt. Pay no heed to his weird ravings.

                    For Felix, “I don’t agree with your position” is carte blance for him to be an unabashed wanker. He seems to not understand that disagreement doesn’t mean one has to be a cock to the other party.

                    I blame it on an as of yet undiagnosed developmental disorder.

                  • felix …
                    2 June 2013 at 7:08 pm

                    “I guess the irony is that all I initially said was that this is not American meddling”

                    No, the irony is that you said it on a post that said nothing whatsoever about American meddling.

                    All in your head Matt.

                    ps don’t pay any attention to TheContrarian, he’s secretly in love with me and it drives him insane. He can’t read good either.

                    • felix …
                      2 June 2013 at 7:21 pm

                      pps there’s another excellent layer of irony in you getting all “oh the irony” after having failed to notice any of the irony all along despite having had it pointed out to you more than once already.

                    • fender …
                      2 June 2013 at 7:59 pm

                      He’s in love with Draco too don’t forget, you can’t have the best dressed man in Aro Valley all to yourself.

                    • felix …
                      2 June 2013 at 8:45 pm

                      Ah yes. TheContrarian, best dressed man in Aro Valley. Men want to be him, and the ladies – err, also want to be him.

                    • TheContrarian …
                      2 June 2013 at 9:22 pm

                      Former best dressed man. Now just dressed.
                      I’ve been beat.

                • Brett Dale …
                  2 June 2013 at 9:42 pm

                  Persecution complexes? Ya have to go to the temana party for that.

                  • fender …
                    2 June 2013 at 10:40 pm

                    History is real.

                    The boy who cried ‘……anti-American post….’ however is living in dreamland, or he can’t read and comprehend at the same time.

                    Stale Bread suits you.

                  • QoT …
                    2 June 2013 at 11:03 pm

                    What’s “the temana party”?

                    • Brett Dale …
                      3 June 2013 at 10:41 am

                      a party full of ex communist members who openly celebrated the deaths of 3000 people because they people who died were american.

                    • marty mars …
                      3 June 2013 at 11:32 am

                      brett dale go back to your stupid tv shows dim, you are well out of your depth and trashing around as usual – what a right wing shitforbrains you are. Oh have you got an answer for the persecution complex question yet? Didn’t think so, oh wait… nah nothing – shallow and weak are your bestfriends – don’t forget to “like”

                  • marty mars …
                    3 June 2013 at 9:57 am

                    lol brett dale a dim bulb even among righties

                    • Brett Dale …
                      3 June 2013 at 11:54 am

                      marty:
                      My stupid tv shows??, The office is awesome, how can you not like dwight?

                      Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

                      Thats four dears.

                      Did i get that right, or am i too dumb for a genius like you.

                    • marty mars …
                      3 June 2013 at 12:31 pm

                      I’m not a genuis but I can recognise a dim – oh dear that’s you brett

          • xtasy 8.1.1.1.2
            3 June 2013 at 11:50 am

            Matt –

            “I have seen this strange dichotomy in the narrative that keeps reappearing here and elsewhere when Kiwis talk about themselves. It combines both an inflated sense of NZ’s own ‘strategic’ importance and a perception that NZ punches way above its weight in regional – if not global – affairs, and at the same time there is this tendency to blame everything that’s wrong in your own country on someone else.”

            While you are rubbing it in a bit much, and while you are a bit over the top, in some ways I regrettably have to agree – being a long term migrant from another region.

            Yes, having watched and read the New Zealand media, and having seen and heard various politicians, and also so many ill-informed born and raised New Zealanders lacking a bit of helpful comprehensive OE exposure, I am dismayed at times, how some think that New Zealand is so important, so strategically important, such an important economic force and so forth.

            While New Zealand has taken a solid stand on some matters, e.g. nuclear free zone in the South Pacific, defending human rights issues in some places like Fiji, and for other actions, it is not at all getting much traction on a global scale. Look at these trade deals we get sold as great achievements. When looking at the small print and the end result, in many cases New Zealand has rather sold itself out, that is governments selling their own people out, rather than achieve so much.

            Also does the present political establishment, with perhaps the exception of the Greens and Mana, plus certain activists, not pay much attention to human rights abuses in countries it does much trade with.

            There is sadly a fair amount of misinformation of the public by poor media, by the political leadership, by self serving operators, and thus a fair amount of hypocrisy.

            This country could do a lot better if people were actually in general better informed, better educated in some matters, more competently and more honestly advised, and if they would take a clear and firm stand, rather than take others’ words for what they tell them. I am waiting for some change, but sadly cannot see much of it happen at present.

        • Populuxe1 8.1.1.2
          3 June 2013 at 7:00 pm

          Actually he does, and quite a good one. NZ has a fairly low strategic value for the US – we’re too far away from anywhere and most of our primary products aren’t that interesting to them. Hell, they think they’re doing *us* a favour with the TPPA. I suspect much of this fevered Right wing masturbating about welcoming our new American overlords is largely the fevered imaginings of Lusk and a few others who mentally still live in ANZUS era.

    • Jacobin 8.2
      2 June 2013 at 2:55 pm

      As another American I agree with your point but I would note that American Conservative operators have shown an interest in expanding their reach into areas you might think “they couldn’t care less about”. An extreme example is the Uganda kill the gays bill which is heavily supported by American conservative organisations. If someone like Lusk had the backing of the PM/a decent faction of MP’s he could probably get some sort of American conservative deal going. Koch Brothers would drop 5 million on something like this easy for some easier US access ?

    • felix 8.3
      2 June 2013 at 4:43 pm

      Hi Matt, who mentioned “American meddling”?

      Apart from Lusk of course, who seems keen to encourage it, which is what the post is about.

      • Matt 8.3.1
        2 June 2013 at 7:02 pm

        “Hi Matt, who mentioned “American meddling”?”

        I did. I said it isn’t. Glad to clear that up.

        • Colonial Viper 8.3.1.1
          2 June 2013 at 7:07 pm

          So you raised a point which wasn’t true so you could then immediately deny it? That’s a fucking brilliant rhetorical strategy mate, here have a medal. Or a mouse.

          • Matt 8.3.1.1.1
            2 June 2013 at 7:13 pm

            What are you on about? I anticipated people inferring something that wasn’t the case. I’m so silly.

            • Colonial Viper 8.3.1.1.1.1
              2 June 2013 at 7:16 pm

              Oh I see, you were performing a public service. So good of you.

              • Matt …
                2 June 2013 at 7:19 pm

                Are you still mad about the whole ‘NZ infrastructure, envy of the world’ thing?

                • felix …
                  2 June 2013 at 7:28 pm

                  Nah, I think it’s more likely to be the whole ‘As a moron, I’m not apologising for stuff that no-one ever said I should apologise for, and also I reckon you shouldn’t be saying stuff that you’re not saying anyway’ thing.

                  • Populuxe1 …
                    3 June 2013 at 7:02 pm

                    Yes, you are a moron, and you frequently never apologise for putting words into other people’s mouths.

              • TheContrarian …
                2 June 2013 at 7:20 pm

                Real friendly posse over here on The Standard. The only difference between The Standard and Kiwiblog is political outlook.

                Otherwise, dicks is gonna be dicks.

                • Pascal's bookie …
                  2 June 2013 at 7:30 pm

                  Well Matt hardly came in and made a good impression. Dick from the get go I’d say. You too, actually, so I”m not really seeing your point?

                  • Matt …
                    2 June 2013 at 7:43 pm

                    Yeah, I was out of line by asserting that Kiwis should take blame for assholes among their own ranks. I am suitably chastened.

                    Oh you’re not seeing a point? Headline worthy stuff, that.

                    • Pascal's bookie …
                      2 June 2013 at 8:12 pm

                      But who was saying kiwis shouldn’t do that Matt?

                      No one.

                      No one is blaming the US for Lusk.

                      So saying “Hey damn Kiwis stop blaming the US and own your own shit for once”, is a dick move.

                    • felix …
                      2 June 2013 at 8:14 pm

                      Nah Matt, you just got caught out pretending to be outraged about stuff you made up.

                      edit: what Pascal said.

            • Pascal's bookie 8.3.1.1.1.2
              2 June 2013 at 7:18 pm

              Who inferred it though?

              • felix …
                2 June 2013 at 8:11 pm

                *chirp chirp… … …chirp chirp…*

                • Matt …
                  2 June 2013 at 8:30 pm

                  I don’t speak insect, sorry.

                  Speaking of making inferences, outrage?

                  • felix …
                    2 June 2013 at 8:40 pm

                    I take that back, sorry mate.

                    Reading back over your comments it seems you’re only faux-outraged about getting called out for your bullshit.

                    • Matt …
                      2 June 2013 at 8:54 pm

                      Congratulations on your evisceration of a moron’s 3.5 sentences of dickish bullshit, if you do say so yourself.

                    • felix …
                      2 June 2013 at 8:57 pm

                      Thanks for making it so much fun for so long.

                  • Populuxe1 …
                    4 June 2013 at 4:56 am

                    I’m afraid you’re mistaken. That’s what it sounds like inside felix’s head.

    • RedLogix 8.4
      2 June 2013 at 5:32 pm

      Where Lusk goes badly wrong is characterising liberal, educated New Zealanders as ‘anti-American’.

      This is quite wrong; we are anti-empire. Regardless of whose it is.

      You only have to look at the strong reaction from the left against the the Chinese government expanding their nascent empire into this country to this in action. Empire building is a specific set of values and actions; in this nation’s short history we have seen three, the British, the American and now the Chinese. (You could also stretch this to include an Australian hegemony as well.)

      The purpose of empire is to economically (and if necessary militarily) dominate a country in order that wealth can be pumped from the vassal state to the centre of the empire. This is what educated New Zealanders understand and object to and would stop is they could.

      In order to prevent us from stopping this pump, the masters of the empire will employ willing traitors like Lusk to guard and protect the intake end of the pump, to stop the locals from blocking or disconnecting it.

      Of course Lusk is sending his CV to the wrong employers; the Americans are no longer all that interested in his services…. it should be written in Mandarin.

      • felix 8.4.1
        2 June 2013 at 6:08 pm

        “You only have to look at the strong reaction from the left against the the Chinese government expanding their nascent empire into this country”

        And when that happened, all we heard from the right was that we were all racists and xenophobes and that we wouldn’t bat an eyelid if it was the yanks.

        Funnily enough that’s all gone down the memory hole and now we’re anti-american, apparently.

  9. North 9
    2 June 2013 at 11:10 am

    Commentors Yes and BD are the petty, ignorant wee foot soldiers of the corrupt, self-fashioned masters of the universe whom for personal power and unlimited personal gain would gladly see NZ the de facto 51st state. Well down the line of command are Yes and BD but scabs, collaborators, and traitors they are nevertheless.

    Incredibly Yes and BD expect us to swallow the exhortations of scabs, collaborators, and traitors and say “Oh nothing to see here…….move along” ? How indulgently stupid are they ?

    Of course ShonKey Python will put himself on record as eschewing the likes of Lusk. Would you not if you were him ?

    • Matt 9.1
      2 June 2013 at 11:15 am

      Delusional. Everyone knows that if we wanted more states we’d start in Canada.

      • North 9.1.1
        2 June 2013 at 11:40 am

        Perhaps you shoud read again Matt and notice that I’m not talking about American intentions.

        I’m talking about the intentions of those within New Zealand, viz. the ShonKey Pythons, the Lusks and the rest.

        I do not equate the neo-liberal religiosity of any Rand-om nutty American Tea Party billionaire with America. Any more Matt than I do you as an American.

      • Naturesong 9.1.2
        2 June 2013 at 11:41 am

        You tried that before though.
        … and got your ass kicked. 1812

        • Matt 9.1.2.1
          2 June 2013 at 11:59 am

          Second time’s the charm.

          • Pascal's bookie 9.1.2.1.1
            2 June 2013 at 7:15 pm

            Iraq much.

            • Colonial Viper 9.1.2.1.1.1
              2 June 2013 at 7:19 pm

              Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan,…

              The US did nominally emerge victorious against the “Evil Empire” but recent developments on the condition of the USA have left me wondering who really won that one.

              • rosy …
                2 June 2013 at 7:23 pm

                A fair chunk of Central/South America. Didn’t need to start a war there but – just be in cahoots the perpetrators.

      • karol 9.1.3
        2 June 2013 at 7:32 pm

        The US government doesn’t need to go to war with Canada, it just uses “free trade” agreements, echelon, ACTA, etc.

      • Populuxe1 9.1.4
        3 June 2013 at 8:56 pm

        To be fair, you have got Puerto Rico, American Samoa and Guam etc.

  10. Furrball 10
    2 June 2013 at 11:26 am

    As political analysis, it’s vapid:

    “The secular liberal elite control left wing politics, and they are anti American for seemingly childish reasons.”

    Who would pay for this junk, except the easily-fooled? Like the American dentists Lusk was allegedly after to scam on expensive wine, perhaps.

    American conservative politics is riddled with grifters, hanger-ons and swindlers sucking at the teat of wingnut welfare. It’s one of their biggest weaknesses along with the conservative entertainment business driving grassroots opinion and policy stances, all sucked into a closed information loop. This strikes me as more of the same.

    • joe90 10.1
      2 June 2013 at 11:57 am

      Indeed Furrball, the long con.

      http://www.thebaffler.com/past/the_long_con

    • Puddleglum 10.2
      2 June 2013 at 9:16 pm

      Yes, I agree.

      I had a read of it and was surprised that someone could write such a document and think that it was professionally written. There were missing words and ungrammatical sentences, despite its brevity and the fact that large sums of money were being requested.

      One of the first sections was titled ‘Logic Structure’ – is this a common phrase in a business plan? The couple of sentences in that section seemed to have nothing in common with the title.

      So many sentences made subjective assertions about New Zealand, the “secular, liberal elite” (the ones who Lusk seems to think wield inordinate power in the country) and the amateurish nature of campaigning in New Zealand. There was very little detail about electoral laws and regulation of the process (apart from a brief comment about electorate spending limits).

      On campaigning, he makes the disturbing comment that “New Zealand is a relatively small country where relatively small amounts of money, and a few professionals will make a massive difference. Impact will be quicker as there are only 120 MPs in New Zealand.

      Is the inference to be taken from this that you won’t need much money to ‘buy’ sufficient numbers of MPs to protect your interests if you hire us to run their campaigns?

      And what does this mean in ‘Appendix One’?: “Politics is very amateur. Each candidate in an electorate is allowed to spend $20,000 in the last 90 days of the campaign and may not use TV.

      Does he mean by ‘amateur’ that money is not able to dominate campaigns?

      And to whom did he intend to send this document? Would they respect such an effort?

      Is this the level of detail in a typical business plan? Would a bank accept this kind of case and hand out $5m on the back of it?

      Does Lusk respect the intelligence of his intended readers?

      • Colonial Viper 10.2.1
        2 June 2013 at 10:04 pm

        – The document is an unprofessional mess. It is not even in shape for submission as a 2nd draft.

        – “Logic Structure” no way is this a typical business plan heading. You may however get an explanation of the layout of a business plan in an introductory section, but usually the document should be simple enough to be self-explanatory.

        – Lusk has identified that a relatively small number of professional organisers and liaison people could have a big impact on election results. He might be right, given the shambolic volunteer/amateur efforts you see from time to time.

        – He’s also conflated the meaning of “amateur” (as in unpaid/non-commercial) with “amatuer” (unprofessional/ineffective).

        – Lastly, he views the low spending limits and low use of TV campaigning as being weaknesses of the NZ system: when in fact they are great democratic strengths. Especially when you see congressional candidates have to constantly kowtow to corporates and special interests in order to raise enough cash to even stay relevant during a campaign.

        • Puddleglum 10.2.1.1
          3 June 2013 at 9:48 pm

          Thanks Colonial Viper.

          ‘Amateur’ (in your first meaning) is the very point of a democracy – so that everyone can participate with their own time and effort, motivated solely by concern over governance (not to make an income).

          Of course, groups will make use of members who have the best skills for particular jobs (and not be ‘amateur’ in your second sense).

  11. Yes 11
    2 June 2013 at 11:31 am

    Lol sincerely first you guys are funny. Ok…I used to vote labour. Now nat and Maori. Happy to vote labour again if you guys weren’t so angry.

    If you read what I have written…all I have ever said was…greens are taking over labour in all fronts.

    Banter aside..it is a concern don’t you think? I am – MMP has it’s value..I’m not 100% on it but the only thing I would change is the 5% threshold to 10% – that means smaller parties have to be really good at what they do.

    I’m not a wingnut nor even a capitalist..however I do like black and white answers.

    My IQ is 128 so I guess there are a few braincells.

    Now how are you guys going to get the greens off the front page

    • BM 11.1
      2 June 2013 at 11:47 am

      Most here want the greens to be the major left party.
      Not a lot of labour supporters on this blog.

      • fender 11.1.1
        2 June 2013 at 1:33 pm

        You don’t know shit do you BM.

        The Greens are acting like the Labour of old, and as a Labour supporter still waiting for the true Labour Party to return, the Greens are filling the void. I for one have always voted Labour.

      • Populuxe1 11.1.2
        3 June 2013 at 8:08 pm

        Hahahahahahahaha *snort*

    • North 11.2
      2 June 2013 at 11:48 am

      YesMan – I would have thought your claimed 128 IQ might have equipped you to cease churlish demands for black and white answers. Equipped you to handle nuance and shades of grey in the MMP context.

      Truth is your comment at 11 above is a strategic climb down from your earlier unsustainable 28 IQ bluster.

      Gutless !

      • Yes 11.2.1
        2 June 2013 at 12:13 pm

        Gutless about what? Nothing wrong MMP just like to see the threshold raised to 10%. nothing wrong with my view.
        Told you how I vote..National and Maori. Nothing gutless there.

        Told you greens are killing labour on policy and headlines…that’s a statement..nothing gutless there.

        IQ 128 … You need to be 130 plus to be a genius so definitely not saying that.

        All I have ever said..I want labour to be a great second large party in NZ…it’s healthy for them and the voters.

        People should be able to vote Nats or Labour centre right or centre left…then on your party vote use it to push your far right or left views..eg ..I vote Maori because I believe in their principals. You may vote greens because you want to protect the environment.

        How we digress from the post.. Lusk is far right..agree..not a good look

        • North 11.2.1.1
          2 June 2013 at 12:47 pm

          Lovely. Some rationality from YesMan.

          A welcome climb down from the usual shitting-himself Freudian rants on behalf of a found-out ShonKey Python.

          Careful YesMan. You may flatter me when you set the bar at 130 plus.

        • Rhinocrates 11.2.1.2
          2 June 2013 at 8:15 pm

          IQ of 128?

          Did you learn that from one of those ads or pop-ips that offer the Ishihara colour vision test and tell you that if you see “42” or can tell how many triangles there are in the pattern, you have a genius IQ? There are these other ones that ask you to identify Barack Obama as the President of the US out a choice of him, George W Bush and Hilary Clinton and if you guess correctly, you could get a green card. I hope that you didn’t give them your bank account number… You didn’t, right? Has the iPad arrived in the mail yet?

          By the way, I’m a Nigerian prince, and I have some temporary difficulties in accessing my inheritance, but with your help…

    • Naturesong 11.3
      2 June 2013 at 11:52 am

      The thing you are missing though, is that the Greens are not taking over.

      What they are doing is articulating an environmentally responsible social democratic position. And fighting against the worst excesses of the current government.

      I would really, really like Labour to start fighting. It doesn’t seem like they’ve realised that the National party has started to campaign for 2014 yet (painting Green and Labour as far left, and then trying to scare labour voters away from that nasty Green party)

      • Yes 11.3.1
        2 June 2013 at 12:05 pm

        Thank you well said…I’m not the only one thinking this

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 11.3.1.1
          2 June 2013 at 4:01 pm

          Correction: you’re not the only one parroting this vacuous spin as though you have difficulty thinking for yourself.

      • Yes 11.3.2
        2 June 2013 at 12:16 pm

        And finally wait for it..come election time someone will have to say..you have to decide whether you vote for labour or greens..you can’t have both. Perfect slogan for the greens

        • Naturesong 11.3.2.1
          2 June 2013 at 12:44 pm

          Well, I’m in Waitakere so easy choice for me. Party vote green, electorate vote Labour.

          I hope the greens don’t put up a candidate this time. (Or better yet, they put up one who can win)
          Last time it split the vote and allowed Paula Bennett to be elected.
          Yes, she’d get have got in on the list anyway, but everyone would have known that her own electorate rejected her.

          As far as voting for a party and member who represents you, don’t get hung up on labels. Read through the policies of the parties, and choose that way.

          Blaming the Green party for the failings of the Labour party is just plain dumb.

          Btw: when I said … painting Green and Labour as far left, and then trying to scare labour voters away from that nasty Green party .. I was explicitly referring to the way you have been pushing this idea on this blog over the last 2 days.

          • Yes 11.3.2.1.1
            2 June 2013 at 1:14 pm

            I am not a national party member just vote centre right. I am allowed today and respect the way you vote. That’s democracy. See Russell being saying democracy is being killed by John. Well it’s not. I get to vote every three years. Take that away and yes I will have a cuppa tea with you.

            • North 11.3.2.1.1.1
              2 June 2013 at 1:49 pm

              The profundity of your definition of democracy quite stuns me YesMan. A vote once every three years and that’s all ? Wow ! That causes a bit of a problem defining political jurisdictions with four or five year terms then doesn’t it ?

              I fear you’re operating down at IQ 28 again YesMan.

              • Colonial Viper …
                2 June 2013 at 1:53 pm

                I heard that Kim Jong Il used to get 99.6% voter support in elections. The power of democracy to express the wishes of the people!

                • Yes …
                  2 June 2013 at 2:05 pm

                  Maori foreshore law..ring a bell? Oops no that was under labour not greens. Maori party was born because their democracy was taken away.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    2 June 2013 at 2:08 pm

                    How was it taken away?

                    • Yes …
                      2 June 2013 at 2:38 pm

                      You serious…the law was passed without no consultation and a clear attack on democracy. Maori rights taken away and the Maori party was formed within labour. What is the difrence between this and what russel is saying. Zero..even your good judgement would have to agree

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      2 June 2013 at 4:57 pm

                      Yes, I’m very serious. If what you are saying is correct, explain why the Maori Party happily (greedily) accepted National’s sea bed and foreshore deal, which essentially changed nothing?

                  • felix …
                    2 June 2013 at 6:34 pm

                    loz, this is “Yes” at 1:44pm: “That’s democracy. See Russell being saying democracy is being killed by John. Well it’s not. I get to vote every three years.”

                    and at 2:05pm: “Maori party was born because their democracy was taken away.”

                    Which is it, Yes? One minute you say we have democracy and the next you say some of us don’t. I don’t see how you can call it democratic unless it’s for everyone, surely.

                  • North …
                    2 June 2013 at 7:12 pm

                    YesMan – Maori Party is dead thanks to Shonkey Python, a duo of troughing old bauble bangers (one of them an obssessive Helen hater the other a fauxmatua), and bullshit of course.

                    Back to current matters. Please confirm that the constitutional rip-off attending the passing under urgency of ShonKey Python’s recent legislation sees that legislation containing no statutory exemptions at all for Maori – Maori caregivers in Maori families for example.

                    If you can pull yourself up from your dive to the bottom it would be nice to see you confirm that. Apropos that dive you’re doing mighty well YesMan. Starting at 128 (claimed) – down down down – 28 – down down down – reckon you’re threatening 20 YesMan. Just a couple more angry lashbacks and you’ll be in negative territory. Declared unfit to plead, even on behalf of ShonKey Python.

            • One Anonymous Knucklehead 11.3.2.1.1.2
              2 June 2013 at 3:09 pm

              I get to vote every three years unless I move to Christchurch. FIFY

    • Sanctuary 11.4
      2 June 2013 at 1:14 pm

      “…My IQ is 128…”

      And I bet you are a level 14 Necromancer in whatever fantasy land you live in as well.

      PS anyone now why I am constantly in moderation these days?

      [r0b: looking in to it…]

    • paul andersen 11.5
      2 June 2013 at 2:15 pm

      oscar wilde said” only the shallow know themselves”, and knowing and bragging(?) of your i.q.(as opposed to I.Q. in your case) , says a lot. do you have a certificate for that ? or maybe a medallion? is it time specified? linked to blood pressure, or coffee or alcohol intake?, hah!

    • Murray Olsen 11.6
      2 June 2013 at 4:43 pm

      Apart from 128 not even being high enough to give you a decent probability of having Asperger’s, you were supposed to average those three results, not add them.

    • Paul 11.7
      2 June 2013 at 5:30 pm

      Well as you say you’re not a wing nut, you can’t be one.
      It’s just your views always seem to be the same as the wing nuts?

    • felix 11.8
      2 June 2013 at 5:35 pm

      “Lol sincerely first you guys are funny.”

      Sincerely thanks.

      “Ok…I used to vote labour. Now nat and Maori. Happy to vote labour again if you guys weren’t so angry.”

      So what? It’s not any party’s responsibility to figure out your tastes and pander to them. If you like what National offers you and stands for then keep voting for them. If not, vote for someone else.

      “If you read what I have written…all I have ever said was…greens are taking over labour in all fronts.”

      That does indeed seem to be your primary obsession.

      “Banter aside..it is a concern don’t you think?”

      No.

      “I am”

      A concern? Yes you are.

      ” – MMP has it’s value..I’m not 100% on it but the only thing I would change is the 5% threshold to 10% – that means smaller parties have to be really good at what they do.”

      Computer says no. National doesn’t care about your thoughts on MMP, so no change for you. Or me. Or anyone else.

      “I’m not a wingnut nor even a capitalist..however I do like black and white answers.”

      Goodo, I like black and white jellybeans.

      “My IQ is 128 so I guess there are a few braincells.”

      I’d have thought that’d make you smart enough to figure out how to vote in your own interest.

      “Now how are you guys going to get the greens off the front page”

      lol, why would I want to do that?

      • Yes 11.8.1
        2 June 2013 at 6:08 pm

        Great analysis.

        Nurses in schools…him there is heaps in there are well, plus social workers and the biggest increases in education spending.

        You are right keep the greens on the front page and let labour sink.

        • felix 11.8.1.1
          2 June 2013 at 6:13 pm

          Not really bothered about Labour, they’ll either get their shit together or they won’t. If they do then they’ll be part of the next government, if they don’t then probably oblivion.

          I don’t understand your second paragraph. What is it about?

        • prism 11.8.1.2
          2 June 2013 at 6:30 pm

          Yes
          Haven’t you bought any good computer games lately to keep you occupied? Your comments are getting wilder and wider off the mark.

          • Yes 11.8.1.2.1
            2 June 2013 at 7:42 pm

            Greens want nurses in schools. They are already there..have been for years. How do I know…been on school boards.

            • felix 11.8.1.2.1.1
              2 June 2013 at 8:19 pm

              So don’t vote vote for the Greens then if you think they’re on the wrong track.

              Sheesh man it’s not rocket surgery.

            • handle 11.8.1.2.1.2
              2 June 2013 at 8:28 pm

              You really think they would make a big deal of suggesting a plan if it was already being done? Pull the other one.

            • North 11.8.1.2.1.3
              2 June 2013 at 10:21 pm

              Shit, I hope ERO don’t know ’bout that bro’. Another school another commissioner……..

  12. vto 12
    2 June 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Lusk should stay in his leafy Havelock North loveliness because people like him are unwelcome in many many parts of the country.

    And the americans he intends bringing here (and or their money) can take notice that they too are entirely unwelcome in that context. Not even a single fibre of their being is welcome. They can simply fuck off. Stay away. Go back to your own gun-toting raging facsist extremist society. And take your warlord ways with you – murderous bastards.

    • Populuxe1 12.1
      3 June 2013 at 7:26 pm

      Oh don’t be such a bigot. Most Americans who come here do so to get away from the madness in the US and a number of them have given generously back to this country – Glen Schaeffer, for example.

  13. muzza 13
    2 June 2013 at 12:55 pm

    America

    Should there not be some deeper discussion, about what/who this *America*, represents!

  14. Rich 14
    2 June 2013 at 1:02 pm

    …Impact will be quicker as there are only 120 MPs in New Zealand.

    Makes it pretty clear why right wingers are keen for a small(er) parliament, right?

    I wonder how many proposals like Lusk’s (possibly with a better standard of English) have been accepted by the US? It’d be interesting to see where a lot of “centre-right” blogs and “campaigning trusts” are actually being funded from?

    • North 14.1
      2 June 2013 at 10:51 pm

      Well there was in recent times the business of the nutter from Christchurch – Trevor Loudon, Baker, of Oxford. One time VP of ACT. Ran the blog “New Zeal” more widely known in my circles as “Poo Peel”.

      Went off to the US. Funded by some out there John Birch Society lunatic billionaire no doubt.

      Last I saw or heard of him was a glowing mention from Glen Beck on Faux News a few years ago – the “Kiwi guy” who authored a stunning expose of the Devil-Beast residing in the corpus of Barack Hussein Obama.

      He was a hoot Old Trev. Complete nutcase but a hoot. Hey, maybe he’s part of the lose alliance ?

  15. vto 15
    2 June 2013 at 1:04 pm

    ha ha, this guy is a chump. This bit made me laugh… “New Zealand mirrors other western democracies. The secular liberal elite control leftwing politics, and they are anti American for seemingly childish reasons.”

    for seemingly childish reasons

    for seemingly childish reasons

    for seemingly childish reasons

    for seemingly childish reasons.

    Ffs, if some cock came to me with a business or some other organisational plan and the main opposition’s reasons were evaluated in such a short shallow manner I would laugh the guy out the door. I would want to genuinely know everything about the reasons for the opposition and so to have it dismissed in that manner would appear to expose a major and fundamental flaw in the promoters base understanding of the opposition, thereby rendering everything else worthless.

    What a joke.

  16. johnm 16
    2 June 2013 at 1:05 pm

    No surprise to me when we have El gringo Yankey john running the show here.
    Why call him that? Isn’t it obvious. He went to South America its greatest political leader Hugo Chavez’s funeral most leaders in S.A, attended it but our Yankee Stooge of the U$’s NeoLiberal obscenity ignored it just as he ignores the majority of kiwis protesting that MRP should not be privatised. He made his dough pile with parasitical Merrill Lynch, it goes on and on.

  17. Grumpy 17
    2 June 2013 at 2:05 pm

    What pile of rubbish!
    We can’t sell out to America because we’ve already sold out to China!

  18. Penny Bright 18
    2 June 2013 at 3:55 pm

    What is the stated position of the Labour Party, NZ First, the Maori Party, Mana, ACT Party and ‘Independents’ Peter Dunne and Brendon Horan on the rise of ‘crony capitalism’ in ‘clean, green’ New Zealand – ‘perceived to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’?

    ‘Fiscal Conservative’ Simon Lusk’s leaked plan to extend and embed ‘corrupt crony capitalism’ in New Zealand…………….

    http://thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/lusk1.pdf

    ” Building a Fiscal Conservative Majority
    February 2012

    This National Government has been a disappointment to fiscal conservatives. The wet wing of the National Party control the senior ranks of the party, and cannot be easily replaced without losing an election.
    After National loses an election there will be a clean out. It is essential we have fiscal conservatives who are willing to make serious changes to control the culture of the party.

    This is part of a long term plan to move the political centre to the right.
    This means reducing the size of government, weakening the power of those who believe in big government, and investing for at least 20 years to ensure that these changes are permanent.

    I have formed a lose alliance of committed fiscal conservatives who believe in this, and to date have funded it myself as I believe in it. The organisation is informal as formality imposes costs, and I believe entrepreneurial ventures are best when they are informal until they are ready to hit the market.

    New Zealand’s political market is exceptionally retarded.
    The first organized group to professionalise and fund politics properly will obtain prime mover advantage, and control the market for some time. There is a one off opportunity to exploit the gap in the market, and I am looking to exploit this gap. ….. ”

    The Green Party leads the attack against ‘crony capitalism’ in New Zealand.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1306/S00001/crony-capitalism-takes-root-in-the-beehive.htm

    Crony capitalism takes root in the Beehive
    Saturday, 1 June 2013, 1:17 pm
    Press Release: Green Party

    1 June 2013

    Crony capitalism takes root in the Beehive

    The National Government is undermining our democracy by giving special treatment to its special friends, the Green Party said today.

    In his key-note AGM speech, Green Party Co-leader Dr Russel Norman took aim at the National Government’s crony capitalism and attacks on democracy.

    “John Key’s National Government is arrogant and divisive, and only looking out for their mates,” said Dr Norman.

    “If you want to be Prime Minister of this country you have got to work for everybody, not just for some.

    “Under National, New Zealand is a country of crony capitalism where public money and benefits are showered on those who have the ear of the relevant minister.

    “National abolished democracy in Canterbury to enable big dairy to increase pollution of rivers and aquifers. National rigged the tender process, handing SkyCity a sweet deal to build a national convention centre. National stopped protest at sea, after Shell Oil complained about protesters.

    “Crony capitalism is not a smart way to run a Government or an economy. It sends the signal to businesses everywhere that the real money to be made in this economy is through lobbying Government for sweet deals, not by honest, hard work. ……………..”

    What is the stated position of the Labour Party, NZ First, the Maori Party, Mana, ACT Party and ‘Independents’ Peter Dunne and Brendon Horan on the rise of ‘crony capitalism’ in ‘clean, green’ New Zealand – ‘perceived to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’?

    (yeah – whatever…………. http://www.transparency.org/cpi2012/results
    Remember – New Zealand hasn’t yet RATIFIED the UN Convention Against Corruption? New Zealand can’t – because our domestic anti-corruption legislative framework isn’t yet in place! )

    http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/treaties/CAC/signatories.html

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption/anti-privatisation’ campaigner

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz

    • handle 18.1
      2 June 2013 at 4:36 pm

      Penny you do not need to paste the contents of everything you want to refer to, especially when the author of the post has already given the link. Learn how to have a discussion on blogs like this, will you.

      • Penny Bright 18.1.1
        2 June 2013 at 5:47 pm

        Are you a ‘moderator’ of this blog ‘handle’?

        Are there some FACTS on my post that you have difficulty in handling, ‘handle’?

        If so – which ones?

        Kind regards,

        Penny Bright
        ‘Anti-corruption/anti-privatisation’ campaigner

        2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

        http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz

        • handle 18.1.1.1
          2 June 2013 at 7:42 pm

          No. You’re confusing form and content again. Pasting large amounts of text is not respectful of other readers in any blog.

          • muzza 18.1.1.1.1
            2 June 2013 at 9:48 pm

            No, you’re confusing your role on this site, handle!

            Don’t read them if you don’t like Penny’s comments, or feel free to fuck off elsewhere, I guess!

            • Anne 18.1.1.1.1.1
              2 June 2013 at 10:12 pm

              Hang on muzza. Other commenters here have been reprimanded for providing extra long transcripts instead of linking to them. This latest is relatively short but even so, what’s good for the goose etc.

            • handle 18.1.1.1.1.2
              2 June 2013 at 11:16 pm

              We are not all so reliant on freedom as our only value, Muzza. Community must be such an inconvenience.

        • QoT 18.1.1.2
          2 June 2013 at 11:05 pm

          As an author on this site with no moderating powers on this particular post, I’d certainly be thankful if you’d figure out how to use fucking quotation marks.

  19. hillbilly 19
    2 June 2013 at 4:28 pm

    Has anyone investigated how a provincial hunting, fishing boy from Hawkes Bay has ‘business’ in the British Virgin Islands and what exactly this ‘business’ is?

    It sounds more like a dodgy, tax avoidance scheme – whereby consultancy fees for work done as a resident in NZ is presumably paid into BVI bank accounts, and all transactions/spending goes into BVI credit cards etc.

    Maybe its a good thing the IRD are about to go hard on those using these tax avoidant schemes and those advisors (accountants and lawyers) recommending their use http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/8745996/IRD-joins-offshore-tax-crackdown.

    Perhaps David Fisher is a member of the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) and he can shed more light on the 260 gigabyte of data, and the New Zealanders involved.

  20. RedBaronCV 20
    2 June 2013 at 4:58 pm

    Scary ideas but they are a cheap bunch of blokes aren’t they. Look at the salaries they are proposing to pay, they won’t get top talent for that and it’s far below what any Nact would work for isn’t it?

  21. infused 21
    2 June 2013 at 5:14 pm

    Well this is all a bit of a fizzer. I was hoping for something good.

    • Colonial Viper 21.1
      2 June 2013 at 5:23 pm

      Subverting the sovereign independence of the nation of no interest to you? Shame, I really thought that you were one who might have cared about undue foreign influence in New Zealand politics.

      • Paul 21.1.1
        2 June 2013 at 5:33 pm

        It seems that infused, BD, rich and all the other foot soldiers were told to go for the message..’this is not much of a story.’
        They’re so obedient and repeat their lines so well.

        • infused 21.1.1.1
          2 June 2013 at 7:07 pm

          Not at all. I have nothing to do with these guys. I was genuinely waiting for something epic to happen, as I found it hard to believe National would be so stupid.

          These look like draft documents that were typed in in 10 minutes.

          • North 21.1.1.1.1
            2 June 2013 at 7:39 pm

            New Zealand doesn’t necessarily need “epic” to despatch ShonKey Python and his band of cargo cultists. Death by a thousand cuts will do.

            By my count we’re already at 750 + with eighteen months to go. That should do it quite nicely. You’ll note I’ve not counted the juice remaining unsqueezed in Sir Kiwi Kim Dotcom, the toxins bubbling in Botox Banks, or the National Party’s uncanny capacity to produce the monthly “Oooh…….smelly !”

            Wait ’til the self-anointed oracles of the media smell the blood hardout and start connecting the neon glowing dots. Oh, I forgot the periodic whistleblower.

            Fun times ahead in this presently rotten state !

            • Colonial Viper 21.1.1.1.1.1
              2 June 2013 at 7:53 pm

              New Zealand doesn’t necessarily need “epic” to despatch ShonKey Python and his band of cargo cultists. Death by a thousand cuts will do.

              And even a severed artery takes time to bleed out…and as you mention, there’s a whole ~17m to go

            • infused 21.1.1.1.1.2
              2 June 2013 at 11:24 pm

              Well I think it does actually need something epic. The left have been trying for years, and nothing has worked.

              Nothing more will happen with Kim. That idiot is just trying to save his ass, fair enough too.

              I don’t think anyone cares about Banks either.

              • Colonial Viper …
                2 June 2013 at 11:28 pm

                Well that’s the last word on Kim Dotcom and Banksy. Key has no more worries going into 2014. You heard it here, from infused first.

                • infused …
                  2 June 2013 at 11:46 pm

                  So I can’t seem to work out, are you sticking up for Kim.com, or just using him as a political pawn?

                  Brash has been all over the news with his court appearances, no one seems to care. Maybe if he gets charged…

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    2 June 2013 at 11:49 pm

                    And now Brash presents no issues either for Key; smooth sailing into 2014 for our great PM.

                    So I can’t seem to work out, are you sticking up for Kim.com, or just using him as a political pawn?

                    I dunno, but you were the one who brought his name up and said that you were sympathetic.

      • infused 21.1.2
        2 June 2013 at 5:34 pm

        It’s a load of bullshit. I spent most of my time writing proposals and reports these days, this just looks like a draft of some guys bullshit dream.

        Where is this being reported? I can’t find anywhere, maybe because it’s amature as fuck.

        • felix 21.1.2.1
          2 June 2013 at 5:40 pm

          “amature as fuck.”

          lol, are you part of the Lose Alliance?

          • ak 21.1.2.1.1
            2 June 2013 at 8:32 pm

            Heh heh corker felix – classic example of the whole “alarmist North Korean Pol Pot farleft devilbeast Greens” routine……poor sad wee tory creeps but, can’t be much fun for moronic bullies to suddenly realise that having spent so long gleefully bashing the poorest and most vulnerable, they’re actually and most demonstrably, a risible, weak-as-catpiss, farce. (no disrespect intended to feline urine, I hasten to add)

          • Puddleglum 21.1.2.1.2
            2 June 2013 at 9:34 pm

            “I have formed a lose alliance of committed fiscal conservatives who believe in this” (from the ‘fiscal conservative’ document).

            Just in case anyone was confused by your allusion, felix.

            Aiming to lose – excellent. Even if you miss you’ll … implode?

  22. dumrse 22
    2 June 2013 at 6:27 pm

    Seems like Eddie has a whole dossier of Nationals “…civil war…” material. Would be good see all the links and or references.

    • felix 22.1
      2 June 2013 at 6:36 pm

      What for? Probably nothing to see. Yawn. Wishful thinking. What a boring nothing story.

    • karol 22.2
      2 June 2013 at 6:42 pm

      Did you miss the bit where various MSM news organisations, plus some blogs,( eg TS & the Daily Blog, probably others) were all leaked the same dossier via email, dum?

      eg:
      NBR

      NZ Herald

      TV3 via scoop

  23. Yes 23
    2 June 2013 at 7:48 pm

    So where do the other blog sites fit into all this? There are a few.

  24. Yes 24
    2 June 2013 at 7:53 pm

    Actually can that last post.

    Here is a better question. If national sells out to America..and this is the NZ voice of the labour movement…then why did the unions bring in the Americans for the port strike?

    • Colonial Viper 24.1
      2 June 2013 at 8:01 pm

      Waiting for the punch line now…why did the unions bring in the Americans for the port strike?

    • Poission 24.2
      2 June 2013 at 9:37 pm

      Was it because
      a) US ports are fully organized.
      b) They have higher rates of productivity
      c) They are more highly paid
      d) All of the above

      • Yes 24.2.1
        2 June 2013 at 9:50 pm

        And they don’t let immigrants join them

        • Colonial Viper 24.2.1.1
          2 June 2013 at 9:56 pm

          keep making shit up, although you really are poor at it.

          • muzza 24.2.1.1.1
            2 June 2013 at 10:12 pm

            The bar is lowering further, with each new batch of these tweekers!

            YES, HANDLE, the latest additions – as if the vapid responses were not transparent enough, the names are a dead give-away!

            • felix 24.2.1.1.1.1
              2 June 2013 at 11:07 pm

              What’s your problem with handle? I find their comments thoughtful, concise and frequently entertaining.

              Why are you lumping them in with newly-named obvious trool “Yes”?

              • rosy …
                2 June 2013 at 11:27 pm

                I think the answer to your first question is your second sentence, Felix.

                Not so sure on the ‘dead giveaway’ around the names in the next question but. Do they add up to a number or something?

                • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                  3 June 2013 at 9:34 am

                  I think the answer to your first question is your second sentence…

                  bahahahahahaha classic 😆

  25. ak 25
    2 June 2013 at 9:06 pm

    Poor wee Lusky. An Aaron Gilmore ending without the notoriety barring a single pompous pose. Forever a shady eltitist wannabe in a corduroy jacket with zero accomplishment and half a fat on. A full list of political appointees since 2005 would be a good indicator of how well his other suggestions have been received – which is why you’ll never see one.

  26. North 26
    2 June 2013 at 10:06 pm

    As a devotee of the socially subversive prattle of Ms Felicity Ferret of Metro magazine during my former life as a wanking Auckland yuppie in the 80s, I have only one thing to say:

    “A visitor from Hawke’s Bay”.

    Sorry about the lose apostrophe. May not be in the correct spot, may even be superfluous. Thoose are the breaks I guess when one fails to match YesMan sporting IQ 128.

  27. Jellytussle 27
    2 June 2013 at 11:18 pm

    It’s all very clever really. If the leaked Lusk plans are all about taking National to the right then……this implies that they are not there yet. Very subtle undercurrent to the ‘labour is far left’ scare tactics.

    • infused 27.1
      2 June 2013 at 11:26 pm

      Which is what I posted in the very first thread.

      National are not stupid. You guys seem to swallow everything, hook, line, sinker.

      • Pascal's bookie 27.1.1
        3 June 2013 at 12:01 am

        So they’ll be throwing Lusks MPs off the bus then right?

        No room in the Party for Collins and her little flock?

      • felix 27.1.2
        3 June 2013 at 4:45 am

        A lot of people have made the same observation as you about the Nats leaking this stuff as a stalking horse.

        And I concur. They’re sneaky fuckers, especially Key, and they’re good at using stuff like this to further their own goals.

        But that doesn’t mean it’s not real, infused. The truth is that Key has exactly the same vision for NZ as Lusk does, and the same contempt for our way of life.

  28. Yes 28
    3 June 2013 at 5:53 am

    Ok think we have exhausted this post. So let’s agree on a few things. lusk is hard right and could be a danger to national party. That’s national issue but let’s be fair John key has said “no” and to be real these papers are dated 2010. And to be even more fair all parties have strategy papers.

    So are we selling out to the USA – no. Or let’s look at it another way…no more than we have created the biggest market with china who by nature are a communist/socialist government with a pretty poor human rights background.

    All governments make decisions based on what they think is right for the country and sometimes they get it right and sometimes they get it wrong. To be fair to be fair…any government had to deal with chch and the credit crunch were always going to be on the back foot. I don’t think it was a hospital pass anyone of us wanted.

    Then finally…if we were great experts and fantastic leaders we would all be standing for parliament. So I am happy to say everyone on here stands behind an nickname which means we are not strong enough to come out in the open and yet we are happy to bag our MPs for at least putting their balls on the line in name and in face.

    I like shearers comments…it just bloggers talking to bloggers. Until we all have the guts to say who we are ..then we are just gutless wonders which I am happy to say that about me. Are you all strong enough to say that as well.

    Ok wonder what interesting news comes out today ? Honors list now that is all for a good debate.

    • karol 28.1
      3 June 2013 at 8:34 am

      Ok think we have exhausted this post. So let’s agree on a few things.…

      Did someone appoint you chairperson of this thread while I was sleeping?

      Then you follow up with a few things that are out of step with the main lines of a high proportion (if not the
      majority of posts on the thread.

      let’s be fair John key has said “no” and to be real these papers are dated 2010. And to be even more fair all parties have strategy papers.

      Many comments up thread go into more depth, and with more solid arguments re-the underlying strategic aim in leaking these documents now.

      So are we selling out to the USA – no.

      GCSB, Kim Dotcom, Echelon, GCSB law, TPP, the Hobbit….etc, etc.

      no more than we have created the biggest market with china who by nature are a communist/socialist government with a pretty poor human rights background.

      See RL up thread @ 8.4:

      Where Lusk goes badly wrong is characterising liberal, educated New Zealanders as ‘anti-American’.

      This is quite wrong; we are anti-empire. Regardless of whose it is.

      So, Yes – Early morning attempt at thread jack….. fail.

      • Yes 28.1.1
        3 June 2013 at 8:55 am

        True apology – wasnt trying to hi-jack but have enjoyed the debate

        To be fair on everyone here – you guys have raised so good points – so pat on the back.

        I would like to see labour get stronger so don’t beat me up for being caring centre right voter – I may just turn.

        Enjoy the Queens birthday holiday

        • rosy 28.1.1.1
          3 June 2013 at 9:02 am

          “but let’s be fair John key has said “no” and to be real these papers are dated 2010. And to be even more fair all parties have strategy papers.”

          So they’re strategy papers dated 2010, so what has National been doing with these papers since 2010? I rather think we need to know what the papers were used for, who was mentored or had strategy developed by Lusk, and why are the papers being released now, not at some other time before a ‘let’s be fair’ position is taken.

          IMO this both an inoculation exercise (where is Aaron Gilmore, btw?) and a show of centrist credentials (along food in schools programme and other ‘soft’ projects) to shore up the centrist vote.

          So no, I’m going to agree to let it go just yet, although I can understand your point that it’s not going to do Labour any favours with the same voting block to have a go at Lusk. I guess that’s why Labour has been remarkably silent about the whole thing.

      • marty mars 28.1.2
        3 June 2013 at 10:14 am

        I think yes is trying a new technique to gain credibility because of the funny failure of the first one – needs to notch up that iq score a bit methinks – are you sure it wasn’t 182 yes?

      • xtasy 28.1.3
        3 June 2013 at 12:18 pm

        “So are we selling out to the USA – no.

        GCSB, Kim Dotcom, Echelon, GCSB law, TPP, the Hobbit….etc, etc.”

        +1

        Thanks also for making a distinction between the USA and “America”, but we know what is meant with “America” in this context. And it is also not the whole of the US, it is the corporations and certain strong, well financed string-pulling lobbyists, their biased corporate media, and the presidents and governments that they get voted in, that are the threat to a democratic and an independent NZ.

        NZ is part of Echelon, and that must never be under-estimated.

        Anybody thinking that NZ is so independent and that all going on in government is so “correct”, “fair”, “reasonable” and “in the interest of the voters and people” needs a bloody wake up call, perhaps a kind of “shock therapy”, to shake them out of the slumber.

  29. dumrse 29
    3 June 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Where is the rest of the civil war dossier Eddie? Day two was number two. Day four now, what’s up ? Cat got your dossier?

    • fender 29.1
      3 June 2013 at 1:21 pm

      Better ask Lusk if there’s more to his manifesto, or is it his terrorist handbook for dummies.

  30. Yes 30
    3 June 2013 at 5:47 pm

    Will this is a dead fish now…I have to say I thought the was a barrage of leak documents to come. I was ready to defend the centre right. Still just a strategy plan written by someone who is as right wing as left wing say penny bright is.

    However it’s been a good post. Shame it didn’t hit wine box quality.

    Greens had behind the door conference weekend. Were they strategizing?

  31. travellerev 31
    4 June 2013 at 12:11 pm

    Just a question. John Key says Luske is soo not important. Does this mean he is:

    1/ Lying because he is fighting this guy?
    2/ distancing himself from someone who obviously pursues the same policies as he does in an effort not to be associated with him?

  32. Michael 32
    4 June 2013 at 12:55 pm

    I hope NACT keeps on using Lusk – if he did write these papers, he’s clearly a semi-literate near-moron (on the level of most NACT MP’s, IMHO, with a few exceptions). NACT has always wanted to grovel to someone further up the food chain (in this case, the Land of the Free) while dumping all over those below them (most Kiwis). I guess there’s some sort of social pathology involved but I can’t be arsed figuring it out. OTOH, I think it is in our interests (most Kiwis) to remain on good terms with the US, a phrase that extends to, and involves, the capacity to fight alongside them when the occasion arises. I think the 1990 Kuwait campaign was one and Afghanistan another (not so sure), while Iraq 2003 was not. East Timor 1999 was definitely the right call, too. My point is that the NZ government should make intelligent decisions, based on its calculation of our national interests, when it comes to our foreign and defence policies. Any political party that listens to Lusk, and adopts an uncritical toadying stance towards another state, is unfit for government.

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.