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Lying liar caught lying again

Written By: - Date published: 7:10 pm, March 27th, 2012 - 194 comments
Categories: uncategorized - Tags:

By “lying liar” I mean Cameron Slater. Here’s his wee effort here last friday:

I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.

Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.

But here’s what he was saying back in 2008:

Thanks for your reply. I have spoken to Phil kitchin and he will take this as easily quietly as you wish. It is important to get the story told and so we will go as fast as you are comfortable.

As Duncan Garner so eloquently put it “Whale lies again

194 comments on “Lying liar caught lying again”

  1. Cactus Kate 1

    So now you saying Whale did speak to Phil Kitchin about ACC matters and fed him this story?
    A bit of context would help.

    Actually given the other day you accused Whale of feeding the Herald this makes Whale somewhat of a media conductor, feeding both sides of a story to fuel a Ministers resignation.

    Russell Brown may need another show to talk about that.

    [lprent: Who are you talking to? The machine (in which case I will educate you about the stupidity of thinking machines have brains), or Zet who has seemed to think that Collins is the leak /author/zetitic/ Either way make up your vague mind so I can take the appropiate action. See the policy. ]

    • Cactus Kate 1.1

      You? We aren’t in Parliament here and you (Lynn) are not the speaker. The Standard is a collective that much is clear. It’s often very hard to differentiate just who “you” is on this site. I use “you” collectively as in all honesty I can’t be bothered working out who precisely is abusing me at any one point in time.
      I shall summarize – there’s so many conspiracy theories going around about Whaleoil and the ACC information that The Standard (all the authors) seem more confused than anyone about what Whaleoil is being accused of.

      [lprent: Different authors have different opinions. We are a cooperative – not a collective. This is quite clear on our about. I realize this may be too subtle for you to understand without an example, but think of the differing opinions in something like the owners of Fonterra. Talk to the people you wish to talk to.

      Don’t talk to me by using the ambiguous “you”. My tolerance drops off sharply when people waste my time by acting like they have a prefrontal lobotomy. ]

      • Harry 1.1.1

        Funny shrill drunk.

        • Cactus Kate 1.1.1.1

          And you are an anonymous pussy who couldn’t argue properly sober.

          • Harry 1.1.1.1.1

            Have another drink darling. It’ll make you feel better about yourself.

            • Cactus Kate 1.1.1.1.1.1

              It didn’t do it for your mother when she was pregnant with you now did it?

              • Harry

                Better make that two. You’ve a lot to feel bad about.

                • Cactus Kate

                  Your mother downed twenty in an afternoon while carrying you to term. Best we all learn from that.

                  • Slap Shot

                    One can only imagine the constant mortification experienced by your parents (or so I am told).

                  • Rosemary

                    You are filth, now fuck off.

                    [lprent: No point in that comment. Read the policy about our views on pointless abuse. Simple assertions don’t constitute a point.. ]

                    • Rosemary

                      So are you saying that what the filthy hateful Odgers says here isn’t pointless abuse:

                      “Your mother downed twenty in an afternoon while carrying you to term. Best we all learn from that.”

                      [You have a point. But equally the moderators will react to shutdown a thread that is degenerating into mindless abuse… and it’s usually the last person in the queue who cops the warning. A polite one in this instance. RL]

        • mickysavage 1.1.1.2

          This particular issue (ACC) has attracted more comments by Cactus and Slater than any issue I can think of.  Sensitive are they?

          • Cactus Kate 1.1.1.2.1

            And there you go. We don’t comment, get accused of being this and that and 200 comments here of abuse later you all wear yourselves out. We do comment and we get that old chestnut.

            • mickysavage 1.1.1.2.1.1

              Well you have to admit that you guys are the subject to all sorts of negative comments here most days.  But on this particular issue there is this really heightened sensitivity?

              What gives?

              I guess being responsible for the destruction of two cabinet ministers’ careers could be sufficient reason. 

            • felix 1.1.1.2.1.2

              Nah, you get accused of being “this and that” when you stink up the place. Most of the time you hardly warrant a mention.

              micky has touched a nerve though, you two have been jumping in whenever this issue comes up and it’s always to deflect and divert.

              It’s a bit bloody obvious frankly.

              • Cactus Kate

                As is the opposition every time. Whaleoil is a frequent topic of many posts and comments on The Standard (www.thestandard.org.nz). If he went on holiday for a month then http://www.thestandard.org.nz would look much like http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz

                [lprent: Wasting my time again? We do about 6 posts per day on average because of the damn weekends. Posts mentioning blubber aka cameron are infrequent.

                /tag/cameron-slater/
                /tag/whaleoil/

                Even an illiterate like yourself should be able to hit a tag link. Unlike Brownlee I don’t think he has rated a category yet. ]

                • felix

                  Only if he took his sockpuppets with him.

                • IrishBill

                  To be fair, Cameron has been very helpful in the PoAL dispute. In fact so much of what he touches turns to shit for the right so often, I think I’d miss him if he left the webs.

                  • David H

                    Well he is becoming the latest foot in the mouth star. If he could ever lift a foot that high..

                • Cactus Kate

                  Now go through the comments and search likewise.

                • Tom Gould

                  @ Cactus, hasn’t blubber boy been on holiday for years now, since his insurer cut him off and he went on the benefit … which he used to brag about?

              • Whaleoil

                Heh, and if we say nothing then some commenter usually say…Slater is still silent on….whatever smear they want to leave out there.

                Damned both ways.

                • felix

                  There’s a third way. You could try telling the truth now and then.

                • IrishBill

                  I think you overestimate your importance, Cameron. If you weren’t such a liability to the right I don’t think we’d give you any airtime at all.

                • lprent

                  Yessss… I can see you have a strong grasp of the tactics. It is your speciality being a complete arsehole devoid of either intelligence or understanding …

                  I am bit constrained here. My colleagues here tend to disapprove of my more personal posts using the tactics you love.

                  • infused

                    Your double standards are so subtle lprent.

                    No personal attacks? Yet you lay personal attacks all the time.

                    • lprent

                      Sure – I am known for a low tolerance for fools and I usually spare little effort in being civil about it. Civility to the socially stupid in my opinion is a false kindness that just encourages the fool to repeat the stupidity.

                      But if you look at the comments I do you’ll always find there is a point expressed forcefully. The actual standard in the policy is that there will be robust debate but no pointless abuse.

                      For abuse to be acceptable on this site there has to be a point behind it, and it can’t just be an assertion that appears to be made up. Hawk asserted one which wasn’t clearly wasn’t correct. Most people writing comments know the bound and act accordingly

                      Of course in my other role as a moderator it is different. For me that is a required task and part of the task is to encourage people not to require me to waste my time. Otherwise I’d get overwhelmed with the amount of time I have to spend on moderating and it’d cut into work and recreation time.

                      So I actively discourage people from repeating their mistakes by being pretty damn nasty. It works pretty well and surprise surprise, it really doesn’t diminish the audience despite all of the predictions to the contrary. Having a malevolent sysop lurking around prepared to be a total arsehole when required actually encourages many more people to comment. The old security cornumbrum appears again.

                    • infused

                      I think that’s a pretty shit response to justify yourself. But do go on. I don’t actually care, just point this out. It is becoming more frequent.

        • David H 1.1.1.3

          The prickly one protecting the slimey one HAHAHAHA

  2. So let me get this straight…According to you and various commenters here over the past few days I have leaked Story A (Pullar’s terrible injustices at the hands of the evil ACC) to Phil Kitchin….

    and Story B (The flip side of Pullar’s story, that of a blackmailing, grasping claimant) to David Fisher at the Herald on Sunday…

    to do what?….Make Michelle Boag looks bad…or is it good, or perhaps just to get Nick Smith…oh I’m confused…

    Now it looks like I have leaked another story (let’s call it Story C) to NBR about Bronwyn Pullar miraculously recovering from having a tonne of kiwifruit on a pallet dropped on her foot.

    I think Cactus is right and Russell is certainly going to have to explore this fully, as is Mediawatch…again…

    Crack me up you guys have made my night.

    [lprent: As I pointed out to your erstwhile partner above, Zet seems to be inclined towards a Collins leak. You’re not going to suggest that the site has a mind are you? Read the policy about how I feel about dumbarses who think that. You really need to tighten up who you’re referring to. Generalized stuff against the site involves wasting my time… Bad idea.. ]

    • IrishBill 2.1

      It looks to me like you either lied to the people emailing you in 2008 or you lied here. Frankly I don’t care what dirty little trick you get up to (although your single handed discrediting of the PoAL anti-union campaign has been greatly appreciated).

      I would say, however, that despite your blustering, and the blustering of your girlfriend, Zet does seem to have caught you saying two distinctly different things. Which indicates you have lied in 2008 or now and have been stupid enough to get caught doing so publicly.

      • Whaleoil 2.1.1

        Oh rubbish…I was accused of shopping the Pullar story to Kitchin…I said I haven’t spoken to him about that…I may have been sloppy in explaining that..but it is true.

        The last time I spoke to Phil Kitchin would have been back then, certainly not since…but since you guys raised the issue that was when your own team shamelessly tried to set me up by lying about Damien o’Connor, throwing him under the bus to get at me…So glad you raised it again.

        If I recall correctly even Russell Brown was aghast that someone on your own team would do that. Oh yes there it is right there on the page Zet linked.

        “It was a pretty dumb stunt, if only because it could easily have gone badly wrong.”

        Still very funny guys…to think you have spent hours searching Google for statements about me and Phil Kitchin just warms the cockles of my heart.

        • Harry 2.1.1.1

          You said ” I have spoken to Phil kitchin”. You weren’t accused of it, you were claiming it yourself. It’s there in black and white. What kind of a deluded moron are you?

        • mickysavage 2.1.1.2

          Well Cameron did you shop the Boag email to Fisher?

          Simple yes or no would be good. 

          • Whaleoil 2.1.1.2.1

            Why would I shop emails from Boag to anyone in the media? If I had them then I would bloody run them myself.

            I certainly wouldn’t wait for a Sunday paper to grind thru the motions.

            Hell, you all think I did it anyway so why wouldn’t I just take the credit for doing it in the first place?

        • Jackal 2.1.1.3

          There is something seriously wrong with you having anything to do with a story about thousands of sensitive ACC claims being leaked Slater… and now you’re waffling about nothing as an explanation.

          You say you were “sloppy in explaining” and that you “never spoke to Phil Kitchin”. However there can be no other interpretation to what you said. Not ever means never… to think otherwise is an absurdity.

          And what about your defamation of a completely innocent person… let’s see some accountability that you’ve previously advocated for and justification for those lies?

          There is nothing funny about it. The problem is that your commentary is now so debunked that only the equally insane believes anything you write on face value. Your repeated lies Slater do a diservice to the New Zealand blogosphere.

          • Whaleoil 2.1.1.3.1

            So says the Plumber.

            • Cactus Kate 2.1.1.3.1.1

              He’s not a plumber who lives in his car anymore, his internet schizophrenia means he now plays another mysterious character, probably Garry Parsloe’s pageboy.

              • burt

                Hey Gary Parsloe still has a job – so he’s doing better than the people he represents…. Dooh!

              • You guys answer the effing question.  Did Slater shop the Boag email to Fisher?  Your continued avoidance of the question suggests there is only one possible answer.

            • Jackal 2.1.1.3.1.2

              That’s right, scurry of into your lies cowards! God forbid you actually own up to being wrong… how would your egos deal with it? Poor RWNJ’s, I’m starting to feel sorry for you again.

        • David H 2.1.1.4

          Open mouth
          insert both feet
          type
          engage brain.
          OOoopps

          Hmmmm sounds about right for the latest liability for the NATS.. Whaleblubber.

    • Lanthanide 2.2

      Glad to see the commenting problems have been worked out and you can comment here, Whale. And yes, I’m being genuinely sincere when I say that, too.

    • McFlock 2.3

      In one link you claimed to have spoken to someone. In another link you subsequently claimed to have never spoken with the same person. Two mutually exclusive statements.
             
      Personally, I don’t give too much of a damn about nat infighting (just as long as everyone involved inflicts serious damage on their opponents’ credibility and political prospects). But I am a little curious as to which of the mutually exclusive statements was an outright lie, and which was in happy coincidence with fact. 
         
      No big deal. 

    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.4

      lprent: look up “estwhile”. It doesn’t mean what you think it means. I only mention this because your go-to form of abuse seems to be to accuse other people of being stupid.

      • Pascal's bookie 2.4.1

        I’m guessing it was a dig at the dynamic duo’s long running, but now sadly defunct co-blogging adventure. It filled a much needed hole in the blogosphere during its existence.

        I think it lasted something less than twenty posts, but I could be wrong about that.

        • felix 2.4.1.1

          Where did they do that?

          • Pascal's bookie 2.4.1.1.1

            I think it was when “Whaleoil” became “Gotcha”.

            launched with a whispery hiss and roar, then some staring at shoes and a mutual agreement that perhaps this wasn’t a particularly good idea.

            Not sure though, second hand info, like I care.

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.4.1.2

          Oh. In that case, don’t I look silly.

      • lprent 2.4.2

        Huh? It refers to their past association. In this case to the startup of the Gotcha site where Whale and Cactus were going blog together on the same site. Lasted a few weeks before the inevitable breakup happened.

        Yep. Checked a dictionary with the correct spelling and it means exactly what I intended to say.

        What did you think that I meant? Perhaps you should review your own knowledge of the word.

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.4.2.1

          Too late. I beat you to it by an hour.

          I was wrong. Sorry.

          • lprent 2.4.2.1.1

            No problem. I picked it up while moderating so I don’t particularly ‘see’ context in that mode. In that mode I’m actually reading comments backwards in time and doing the frogs eye trick. There are particular things that I scan for and I don’t really engage the brain until I ‘see’ something of interest. Then I may look at context.

            So in this case I walked over your later comment as of little ‘interest’ and then hit one referring to me. Since it was addressed to me and not a reply, I didn’t look at context – just answered it.

            Guess you missed that enormously influential period when Whale and Cactus were demonstrating why there is a dearth of multi-author right wing blogs around. Too many bloated ego’s in too small an area. Funny thing is that we don’t see that problem here despite the strong personalities and ego’s. We just cooperate and do what is required in our various areas. You could almost write a whole politics paper on the implications 😈

  3. Pascal's bookie 3

    “I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.”

    Maybe there is some arcane translation of ‘not ever’ in the law that renders it specific to a point in time or context.

    That would be pretty daft though, but if it is the case, then I for one think we should abandon that practice in favour of plain english.

    Because as it is, a plain english reading of the phrase ‘not ever’, would see it as meaning that the speaker had never, not once, not, well, ‘ever’ done the thing in question.

    I’d think that people would use it to rhetorically strengthen the claim that they had not done the thing in the particular case under discussion. They are saying not only did I not do it here, in this specific case, I’ve not done it ever in the general case. As it were

    If it turns out they have in fact done it on some previous occasion, then yep, that makes them a liar about the general case.

    Pointing that lie out doesn’t mean you are saying they did it in the specific case.

  4. felix 4

    The Slater child and his drunk old lady friend seem keen to discuss anything but the post.

    lolz. Not even a good liar either.

    • Whaleoil 4.1

      Fill yer boots…it is yet another post talking about me for some strange reason…clearly you guys have got a thaang going there.

      • Blighty 4.1.1

        You get mentioned sometimes. Not because you’re the goose that lays the golden eggs, as you think Slater. It’s because you’re the goose that shits all over his masters – eg PoAL – and it’s great to watch.

    • Cactus Kate 4.2

      I wish I had some of the whacky weed you take cat man. What’s actually to discuss here?

      • vto 4.2.1

        That’s right, what is to discuss? Lying bastards with no brains? I can go over to sewertown for that.

      • felix 4.2.2

        Whether or not the Slater child is a lying sack of shit, mainly.

    • Cactus Kate 4.3

      Copy of your birth certificate old tomcat so we can judge that for ourselves, given Lynn’s comments about machines, I suspect we are commenting to one now and you are making up your youth, among other things.

      Lolz went out with Vanilla Ice.

      • felix 4.3.1

        Huh? I don’t think I’ve mentioned my youth lately except in terms of my fond memories.

        Have another drink and try again, dear.

        ps yes, I am a machine.

        • Cactus Kate 4.3.1.1

          You are also commenting as Harry or perhaps you shared the same mother hence your anger at women who drink? You need to get over it.

          • felix 4.3.1.1.1

            Sorry gran, but I only comment as felix. You’re having a bit of a spin out there, thinking everyone’s out to get you, thinking people are machines, imagining that people are saying things they’re not.

            Maybe you should think about having a wee break from the high life, eh?

            And I assure you all my favourite women drink, as do I. We just know how to hold onto our shit.

            And thank you for the compliment Lynn, that’s very kind 😀

            • Cactus Kate 4.3.1.1.1.1

              Yes I will create a fake animal name, fake internet identity and pretend I’m say an 18 year old leftie as well so I can abuse other people who can be identified on Blogs.

              “we just know how…” so you are a woman today then if read in that context?

              • felix

                Lol where have I said I’m a teenager? I’m probably older than you, silly goose.

                “so you are a woman today then if read in that context?”

                No, “we” refers to “my favourite women” and “I”. You’ve failed to understand the straightforward use of your first language. It’s ok, it happens to all of us now and then.

                • Cactus Kate

                  So Felix if you are probably older than me, we can take it you probably drink more than me as well and are definitely telling lies,
                  I mean really the quality of commenting has dropped here. You have the benefit of a faux persona and can’t even make up the details to your own advantage.

                  • felix

                    You’re going to feel a bit silly reading these comments in the morning Kate.

                    • Cactus Kate

                      Why? I voted for a party that polled 1.2%. I couldn’t give a stuff about commenting on any blog.

              • Jackal

                Have another drink Catcus… perhaps then you can come up with some proper insults.

                • Cactus Kate

                  Another faceless nameless child in need of $1 a day sponsorship.

                  • Kate can you answer the question?

                    Did Slater shop the Boag email to Fisher?  The continued avoidance of the question suggests there is only one possible answer. 

                    • Cactus Kate

                      Of course I can’t answer it as I am not David Fisher.
                      I would add though if Slater had anything that good, i would expect that he would have stuck it on his own blog first and not given it to anyone else.

                    • Well can you ask Cameron to reply?  You know the story Kate, your antennae goes wild when people continuously avoid the question and talk about something else.  It makes you think that they are not being up front.  

                      So can you ask Cameron if he shopped the email to Fisher?  My repeated asking of this question will cause many to think that this may be the case.  A simple no would be good if Cameron wishes to reply in this way.

                  • Jackal

                    Wow! Sixteen comments so far and not one based in reality. Tell me Catcus, why have you come to the defence of the lying bastard Slater… are you implicated in the scandal as well perhaps?

        • lprent 4.3.1.2

          Unlikely you’re a machine. I couldn’t write such a program, and I don’t know of anyone who could..

          I’d have to rate that as bullshit….. 😈

  5. vto 5

    .
    Fight!

    She’s all go ..

    • Cactus Kate 5.1

      And you love it. Slater and Cactus versus 20 trolls. Not fair odds really, where are your reinforcements?

      • felix 5.1.1

        How are you counting 20? Seeing double, are we?

        Anyway, I thought we were all the same person? Must be hard work keeping up with all your delusions.

        • burt 5.1.1.1

          Meooooow

        • Cactus Kate 5.1.1.2

          Everyone knows this site has core anonymous regulars and then add ons. I shall name them
          Harry, VTO, Burt, Felix, Irish Bill, jackal, Lanthanide, mcFlock, pascals bookie, blights, Eddie, bunji, james henderson, Anthony robbins, rob, ianmac, ghost who walks, colonial viper. I would include Mickey and Lynn but credit to them, we actually know who they are. That’s 20 who will all consistent argue with you here when you may say even the slightest thing they disagree with.

          • vto 5.1.1.2.1

            Ok, I will no longer argue with you if you say something that I disagree with.

            Not that I have ever done that before, so why have you named me? And in capitals. Hope you’re not fantasising.

          • Jackal 5.1.1.2.2

            Some of those you’ve named as anonymous aren’t and most of the aliases you’ve mentioned haven’t commented on this post. Don’t try to discredit The Standard just because you lack information, can’t count and won’t argue the topic up for discussion.

            • Cactus Kate 5.1.1.2.2.1

              I cant discredit a machine,

              • Jackal

                Your jargon can’t discredit The Standard or it’s regular commentators… nice to see you accept the weakness of argument then Catcus.

            • Whaleoil 5.1.1.2.2.2

              Clearly the oxygen in the car is getting a little thin Jackal, might I suggest you wind down the window to clear the condensation and get some fresh oxygen in.

              Everyone knows that you can’t discredit a machine and the collection of scripts and programs running on the multiple threaded processes across multiple sites to enhance the serving speed of “the machine”.

              • Jackal

                Looks like the blood is rushing to your head in an attempt to suppress the truth leaking out to protect mistress Collins and you completely missed the point Slater.

                Besides, the internet and websites are not specifically “machines”… they are programs. A machine has a physical working structure such as a computer or a car. These can most definitely be discredited.

                Catcus must be pretty fucked up to think commentators on The Standard are “machines” ie programs. Good god man are you guys insane or what?

                As an aside, could you tell me why all the traces I put on your IP address end up in Mt Eden jail Slater?

                • lprent

                  They all do for auckland city. It is the centre of the area covered by the ‘district’. NZ doesn’t provide good geographical information unless you look at DSLAM’s at exchange level.

                  • Jackal

                    Thanks for that 1prent. I’m still wondering why they think I’m a plumber from Ruakaka when even a rudimentary trace would show my IP isn’t from that district.

                    • lprent

                      Whale’s ego tends to outweigh his actual technical ability by a few orders of magnitude. It shows whenever he uses his friends technical means.

                      But most likely in your case he swallowed someone’s email bullshit whole. As you can see on the second link in the post he tends to be a complete sucker for a tall story told well. There have been quite a few other complete cockups over the years that have been forwarded to us that we haven’t pursued because there wasn’t enough backing or where we weren’t sure that the hatred wasn’t overwhelming the judgement.

                      This one just has some actual links.

              • lprent

                You did have a technical background once. Lost to idling about?

          • felix 5.1.1.2.3

            Seriously Kate, take a nap. I don’t particularly like you but that doesn’t mean I want to see you make a fool of yourself. We’ve both had a bit of fun trading insults but it’s getting a bit silly now.

            Come back after a sleep and we’ll have a proper talk about what Slater knew, when he knew it, where he heard it, and who he passed it on to.

          • lprent 5.1.1.2.4

            I have published the list of top commentators and posters often enough.

            You missed BLiP and a few other of the regular commentators over the years* Who is ‘Harry’ and ‘blights’ – different blog? Antony/r0b are the same person and the former is his actual name.

            You’re going to seriously piss burt off. 😈

            None of them are exactly anonymous to anyone who reads the blog. Their personalities lurge though just as much as yours does. They certainly argue with each other a lot. None of them has contributed more than 0.5% of the comments and that is only because of CV’s rather extreme 14,180 comments out of our 391,499 comments

            Your point is?

            You should really focus on something that you aren’t quite such a newbie at…

            • Cactus Kate 5.1.1.2.4.1

              Of course they are anonymous to the public, of which I am one because I don’t know the secret handshakes that go on here. Happy to stay a newbie on that.

              • lprent

                Most are “anonymous” to me as well. Unlike you I see their e-mails – many of which are invalid, and their IP’s which to me are pretty solid about who people aren’t. Even the people who use TOR or one of the VPN exit points are as identifiable as hell – mostly because they use such known gateways (less than 3% of our comment traffic comes from overseas IP ranges, and half of those are TOR or VON gateway). If you wanted to be anonymous then there are some easier things to do for anonymity against a sysop. use Ihug or Vodafone is a good start. Their IP ranges move like greased lightning.

                But you ‘identified’ maybe 3% of the commentators and a few of the non commenting authors. Commentators are a fraction of the readers.

                But it is hard to conceal personality in comments. Irish can detect alomost anyone from writing style alone. I can detect most people. It is the most precise technique…. You literally cannot conceal your writing style without looking forced.

                But I suspect you don’t have the required patience or skills to apply the techniques. Few who are too full of themselves are….

              • Lanthanide

                I have no clue who any of the others are, except for those who have revealed their identities.

                I also don’t really track personal details. Seems most people live in the North Island, a few in the smaller cities but most in Auckland (no surprise).

          • burt 5.1.1.2.5

            Cactus

            I take exception to being lumped in with the lefty apologists. OK sure I’m a regular with an alias…. But I’m not a troll “for” the standard (*1).

            *1) The standard being in this context intended to refer to the collective of bloggers who fight hard out to get self serving Labour govt’s elected to implement policies that always fail.

            [lprent: 😈 That took longer than I thought.

            BTW: Some of the authors want a green government. At least two would probably prefer that there wasn’t a government at all and that we’d all just get along without one. ]

            • felix 5.1.1.2.5.1

              Too late burt, you’re well and truly lumped in now. Gooble gobble gooble gobble 😀

              • Akldnut

                Billiant felix, you got a camera into Act’s Caucus and Kates acceptance into the party.
                I note she had a bit to drink there too!

          • David H 5.1.1.2.6

            Damn I’m disappointed I didn’t make the top 20. There again I’m new here. Only been here a coupla years. and only banned once. Oh well something to work for, to be on someones top 20 list, wowweeeeee.

            [lprent: The system shows you as being well down in the top 100 in terms of comments. Hard to tell with the crap searches in safari on a iPad. Having been banned on a moderated site is pretty normal. How else do you learn the edges. I have been booted a few times over the years on various forums. ]

      • Rob 5.1.2

        Now thats a keeper…..

      • vto 5.1.3

        Reinforcements? I don’t think I have any. It’s just me luvvy.

        • felix 5.1.3.1

          Not sure why she thinks you’d need any either…

        • lprent 5.1.3.2

          Yep. vto is definitely a agin the government force of one. Any government.

          I thought he was Act prior to 2010 and ECan.

          • grumpy 5.1.3.2.1

            Stockholm Syndrome……

            • lprent 5.1.3.2.1.1

              Don’t think so. One of the characteristics of the blogs is that there is no confinement. Anyone can walk off to another blog at any time. Definitely not the conditions for Stockholm syndrome to arise.

              I think he is just swinging voter…

      • deuto 5.1.4

        Well there is probably a lot of us. In terms of animal names, particularly cats, if you are looking for one CK, Felix is gone as is Deuto.

        But lets not divert – how about you and WO actually answer MS’ very direct yes or no questions…………

        PS – as an aside, micky – looked up the correct quotation for my comment last night “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” But don’t think either CK or WO rate as a ‘lady’ but interesting that both have deemed to honour us with their presence tonight.

  6. vto 6

    How do cactuses get close? Or are they solitary veges?

  7. fender 7

    Does seem to be a waste of bandwidth to point out something that surely everyone including the midwife could tell from his first cry. But it’s worth being reminded from time to time, that these foul people who support companies that seek a helping hand to spread their bs are not very straight-up and have a rotten core and radiate evilness.

    But at least the whaleslime runs in the gutter where it can be monitored for signs of vigilante behaviour or cult activity.

  8. tsmithfield 8

    The point I would make here is that it is very easy to accuse someone of lying when comparative phrases are taken completely out of their context.

    In the situation cited above, it is clear that the conversations referred to were completely different matters. Here is what I mean:

    Example 1:

    Person A: You told X about Y.

    Person B: I have never spoken to X.

    Example 2:

    Person A: You told X about Z.

    Person B: I have spoken to X.

    Comparing the two statements from person B apart from the context, it seems that person B has completely contradicted themselves. However, what is not considered is the implication contained in the statements when referring back to the context:

    “I have never spoken to X” in the first example includes the implication [about Y].

    “I have spoken to X” in the second example includes the implication [about X].

    In both the examples above, I am fairly certain that the individuals concerned wouldn’t be scanning back over several years when having these conversations. Rather, they would be addressing the point immediately before them, and would understand completely what they were talking about.

    In the article above accusing Whale Oil of lying, the statements have been stripped of their context in the article. However, by following the links back, it is clear that they are referring to conversations (or lack of conversations) that relate to completely different subject matter. When the context of the differing subject matter is taken into account, the apparent contradiction is fairly easily resolved.

    • TS to the rescue.

      What I would really like someone to do, preferably Slater is to answer this very simple question, did he somehow transmit the Boag email to the Herald’s Fisher?

      I am dying to know … 

      • Cactus Kate 8.2.1

        Oh for heavens sake refer to 2.1.1.2.1 and stop yourself from dying.
        You aren’t going to accept the answer whatever it is anyway.

      • Whaleoil 8.2.2

        FFS the answer is No, I did not send the Boag email to Fisher.

        • mickysavage 8.2.2.1

          So who did?  Was it someone in Collins’ office?

          • Cactus Kate 8.2.2.1.1

            Is David Cunliffe currently plotting a coup? And if your answer is no is Grant Robertson? And if your answer is still no we will think of someone else to blame for the current coup rumours and ask you about that too.

            • mickysavage 8.2.2.1.1.1

              DC is not planning a coup.  

              So did someone in Collins’ office release the email?

              Good attempted diversion …

              • Cactus Kate

                Not planning? So Nanaia is doing the planning? Didn’t seem very happy on The nation Sunday.

                • You are such a crack up Kate.  You and Cameron are using all the classic diversion tactics.  Open up.  Let us know what is happening in the National Party.  Is Civil war erupting?  Is the Brat Pack gunning for Collins because she took out Smith?  Did she leak a private email from Boag for political advantage?

                  On the other hand if you do not want to answer that is fine.  I suspect us lefties will sit back and watch this unfold over the next couple of weeks.  Whatever happens I am sure that this Government will not be the same.  

                  And for the people of New Zealand this will be a good thing … 

                  • Cactus Kate

                    No the question has been answered and you are using classic tactics of relitigating what has already been answered.

                    I’ve got no interest or idea about what is going on in the National Party. Contrary to idiot reporters I am neither a member or have I ever voted for them. Despite almost certain electoral annihilation remember, I still voted for ACT.

                • lprent

                  Have you ever seen Nanaia happy? I never have ever… I think that she’d crack if those muscles were ever exercised. Politicians come in all types.

                  Just ask David Garrett – ex Act MP. How could you have voted for him?

                  • Cactus Kate

                    Nanaia looked pretty happy when she thought she was going to be Deputy leader.
                    Her comments about Labour were as guarded as Charles Chauvel’s.

                    Although Im sure she would be equally as unhappy to hear her used to justify bringing up Dabid Garrett again in comparison.

                    • lprent

                      Labour has learned over the decades to simply put up with me. The benefits tend to significantly outweigh the costs when calculated as a whole. I don’t really spend a lot of time worrying about politician’s fragile egos. They are pretty tough if they are pros, and if they are not then I help with their education. And I suspect that Nanaia would be somewhat outspoken if she got pissed off.

                      So you are ashamed of the party that brought Garratt to parliament? He has to be one of the weakest candidates I have seen. Shows that the party members were pretty useless at doing their job….

            • Whaleoil 8.2.2.1.1.2

              Didn’t Grant do well today gazzumping Jacinda in the welfare debate?

              Real leadership potential there, the only question is really, who will be his deputy? Will be David C?

            • lprent 8.2.2.1.1.3

              Coups happen in caucus. Why are you asking a Auckland regional for news about them? The party has bugger all to do with them – worse luck…

              But it is unlikely. The party membership can vote with their feet. Not a lot of point having a nice mid or late term caucus coup and then finding that the new leader can’t win the following election. That is the message that would be coup makers get when they ask.

          • Whaleoil 8.2.2.1.2

            Michelle Boag?

            • Cactus Kate 8.2.2.1.2.1

              Andrew Williams
              Expert in leaks.

            • mickysavage 8.2.2.1.2.2

              That is a good one.  So Michelle Boag opened herself up to ridicule and allegations that she participated in an attempt to extort by sending a private email to the Herald.

              Good one Cameron …

              Did you clear it with her before making this suggestion? 

              • Whaleoil

                An email to a minister can never be private because it is subject to OIA.

                So Michelle, the strategic genius she is writes an email which you describe as extortion to a minister in her capacity as the minister of the department she, as you said, tried to extort….and now is livid that it is public?

                The email is searchable under the OIA so can never be private.

                • Haha

                  If the email was sent to a private address and preceded by a telephone call to make sure it is private but the Minister then decides to treat it as public then it is subject to the OIA but not otherwise.

                  Do you mean that every email to Key and Joyce is subject to the OIA??  I hope you are right.  I can hardly wait …

                  And Boag’s email was definitely not an attempt to extort.  You should be more careful before making such allegations. 

                  • Whaleoil

                    Very precise information there Mickey…

                    You seem to be in the know, certainly more than me. Phone calls in advance…private email addresses…what are you Michelle’s bitch?

                    You state Boag’s email was “definitely” not an attempt to extort…how could you know that? Do you have a copy of it? Definitely is very precise language…and you are a lawyer, you know all about precision with words, don’t you Mickey?

                    You made the allegation…I simply confirmed what you said above. Anyway it matters not because it is a matter of public record that ACC thinks it was an attempt to blackmail or extort and so have laid a complaint with the Police.

                    • Ha Cameron

                      The last time I saw you so animated was  when I mentioned Simon Lusk.  Was he involved in writing any of your ACC and post Smith-resignation analysis?

                      Just a stab in the dark sort of question … 

                  • Whaleoil

                    Whoops…quick diversion there Mickey…seems you do have a copy of the email.

                    Who sent you the email?
                    Was it someone in ACC?
                    What does it actually say, since you have stated it “definitely” wasn’t an extortion email?
                    Why do you have a “private email”, as you have described it, sent to a minister, one that allegedly talks about an ACC claimant?
                    Is that a breach of privacy that you seem to have the email?

                    Many questions, how about some direct answers?

          • hawk 8.2.2.1.3

            You got your answer so shut the fuck up.

            You do sound like a stupid old cunt you really do.

            [lprent: That is at the edge of a pointless abuse since I haven’t seen an definite answer and you didn’t link or point one out. It’d pay you to read the notes in the policy about that style of comment. I tend to regard them as giving me fresh meat to educate about how to insult others in a less stupid and boring way. Then I give them time to contemplate the lesson. ]

            • hawk 8.2.2.1.3.1

              Lprent after i had posted it I realised the foolishness in my post.

              I did try to edit and delete I thought I had changed it however it dod not work.

              Point noted.

              [lprent: No problem – you just catch a warning and I’ll bear the dysfunction on the site in mind.

              Unfortunately I’ve been out of available time for my third role as sysop due to work pressures. So there are some repairs that haven’t been done on the site. One of them is the irritating botchup that the new owners of the re-editing plugin have been doing. ]

  9. tsmithfield 9

    Felix: “Nah. /lying-liar-caught-lying-again/comment-page-1/#comment-451813

    Doesn’t matter. If you include the implication [about Pullar], which was the subject of the post he was responding to, then what he said makes perfect sense, and doesn’t contradict his 2008 statement in the slightest.

    When people are responding to these sorts of things, it is often in a very conversational sort of manner, and responding to the immediate issue. Personally, I don’t expect people to scan through the last decade of their lives before posting. I can also read between the lines to know infer what may have been left out in the course of a reasonably rapid reply.

    • felix 9.1

      Yeah that’s true. If you pretend he didn’t say what he actually said, it’d mean something else.

      • tsmithfield 9.1.1

        Felix “Yeah that’s true. If you pretend he didn’t say what he actually said, it’d mean something else.”

        Are you acting thick or is it for real? As you should well know, context is vital for understanding what is being said.

        If Whale was responding to:

        “You have communicated with Kitchen on various occasions in the past”

        Then asserting that he had never previously communicated with that person would either be forgetfulness or lying.

        However, that wasn’t what he was responding to. It was about his communication with Kitchen about very specific subject matter. Whale’s response, in this context was clearly that he had never communicated with Kitchen about that matter. (implied)

        In my opinion, the accusation against Whale is based on a very cheap trick that doesn’t stand up to much scrutiny.

  10. tsmithfield 10

    You can follow the link as well as I can.

    • felix 10.1

      The link in the post? To Cameron’s comment? Yep I can, Cameron was replying to this comment from js, quoted in full:

      js 7
      23 March 2012 at 1:37 pm

      I heard it was part of an ongoing battle between Michelle Boag and Cameron Slater (National Party chairperson grievance politics) and he leaked the whole story to the Dominion Post. Phil Kitchin has mentioned before how he gets a lot of information from him.

      See that last sentence? “Phil Kitchin has mentioned before how he gets a lot of information from him.”

      To which Cameron replied (again, quoted in full):

      Whaleoil 7.3
      23 March 2012 at 2:54 pm

      I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.

      Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.

      So the context was not limited to this specific matter at all, it was very general about an ongoing relationship between Kitchen and Slater.

      Pretty much the exact opposite of what you said.

      • tsmithfield 10.1.1

        I disagree. You need to look at the wider context of the article and how Slater himself qualifies what he said. The article was: “Who leaked Pullar’s name?”

        So, to start with, the article was clearly about how Pullar’s name got out.

        Now look at Slater’s post:

        I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.

        Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.

        See how Slater has qualified his first sentence with the second. Clearly, due to the second sentence, the inference could be added to his first sentence [about Pullar].

        About the most you could accuse Slater of is being slightly lazy with his language. Accusing him of lying is absurd. Context is everything.

        • felix 10.1.1.1

          That’s not a qualification of what he said. It’s additional to what he said.

          In case you missed it, here ’tis again:

          js: “I heard it was part of an ongoing battle between Michelle Boag and Cameron Slater (National Party chairperson grievance politics) and he leaked the whole story to the Dominion Post. Phil Kitchin has mentioned before how he gets a lot of information from him.”

          Whaleoil: “I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.
          Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.”

          To make your hypothesis work you have to ignore the question and the answer and focus entirely on something else instead. Very weak, smitty.

          • tsmithfield 10.1.1.1.1

            As I mentioned above, you need to also consider the wider context as to what JS might have been talking about. The wider context was the article: “Who leaked Pullar’s name?” If the article had been titled: “Conversations Slater has had with Kitchin”, you would have a much stronger point.

            Slater’s statement could have been constructed as follows:

            I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any
            manner: Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.

            Then the inference would have been very clear. So, in my opinion, it is only a slight inaccuracy in the way Slater has structured his post that gives you any ammunition for accusing him of lying. So far as I am concerned, the implication is very clear that he was limiting the scope of what he was saying. In the end, we both look at things the way we want to, so there probably isn’t a lot more I can say about this point.

            • Pascal's bookie 10.1.1.1.1.1

              You’re still ignoring the actual question that Slater was responding to. An allegation that he has worked with Kitchin, that he has a relationship with him. That is what his statement was in immediate response to.

              In that context, he was denying the relationship exists, that it has ‘ever’ existed, thus strengthening the idea that he could not have been working with him in this instance.

              Your new formulation does nothing to make his claim specific only to this case.

              It’s a trivial lie, of little consequence, but one that is revealing if you like. Slater could easily have just said that he isn’t working with Hitchins on this.

              Instead, he decided, at whatever level of consciousness, to deny that he had ever worked with him. That served a rhetorical purpose that suited him. That the truth was different to what he wrote, perhaps didn’t just bother him, in that case you could say that he was bullshitting about it rather than lying.

              But good lord you say some ridiculous shit, I have to say.

            • felix 10.1.1.1.1.2

              “you need to also consider the wider context as to what JS might have been talking about.

              I did. S/He is talking about an ongoing relationship between Slater and Kitchin, not restricted or limited to this particular case. You’re trying to narrow the context to exclude that fact.

              “Slater’s statement could have been constructed as follows”

              It could have been phrased as a lunch order, but it wasn’t. It was phrased as a black and white denial of the previous statement.

              You’re looking at things you think might have happened (but can’t show) and things you wish happened (but definitely didn’t) and completely ignoring what did happen (which we can all see for ourselves).

              Smitty, do you mind awfully if we discuss what was actually said instead?

              Thanks.

              edit- Shorter felix: what P’s b said.

  11. Perhaps I’m misinterpreting what went on with the 2008 ‘stunt’ linked to in the post – but it seems to me that Cameron Slater had a very juicy story but didn’t post it ‘first’ on his blog, and didn’t intend to do so (limiting himself to ‘tid-bits’).

    Instead, (if I’m correct?) he contacted Phil Kitchin to try to get it first reported in a mainstream newspaper.

    If that is the case, then clearly having a juicy story does not necessarily mean that Mr Slater would first put it on his blog but that, in some circumstances at least, he would try to get it reported in the mainstream press first.

    Doesn’t it?

    So the defence, in the present case, that if he’d had the information he would have put it on his own blog first is not necessarily a ‘clincher’, in terms of clear denial that he ‘leaked’ the email. 

    But perhaps I’m missing something. 

    • hawk 11.1

      No think your thinking on the matter mkes perfect sense, however that does not allow the commentators in here to have a good old bun fight.

      So they should thank you for not posting your sensible comments until they had their fun.

    • Colonial Viper 11.2

      If that is the case, then clearly having a juicy story does not necessarily mean that Mr Slater would first put it on his blog but that, in some circumstances at least, he would try to get it reported in the mainstream press first.

      Slater knows that for an important story, the MSM would be able to reach a far wider audience far more credibly.

      Then post MSM release he would add his 2c worth of spin.

      Which therefore suggests that Slater acts as an unofficial (arms’ length) distribution channel to the MSM, as one of his primary roles for his right wing paymasters.

  12. Lying liar caught lying again
    Written By: Zetetic

    It’s good to see such a strong line in the sand here against bloggers telling lies. Perhaps this may set a benchmark for all bloggers to stick to facts and truths. That could also encompass a stand against mistruths and statements of “opinion” designed to dishonestly smear and discredit.

    Will you lead the way in a campaign for blog truthfullness? This post could be a permanent reminder.

  13. Fortran 13

    When I saw the heading I wondered what Len had been up to this time.

  14. KevinH 14

    Pullar was totally aggrieved with her negotiations with ACC and dragged in a number of political heavyweights, including Michele Boag, to help out with ther case. This would of got tongues wagging down on the beltway including media in the loop ie bloggers.
    This story was hushed up from the start but couldn’t be contained because of the alleged speculation from NZ First that made it so juicy that eventually it blew. Who sent the emails is irrelevant, the story was out and it was just a matter of time before it went public.

  15. Treetop 15

    I still want to know if Pullar gave permission for Boag to email Collins?

  16. randal 16

    I want to know if God is really on Slaters side?
    or is it just another fib.

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    5 days ago
  • One way to solve the housing crisis
    How much homelessness is caused by house hoarding? We're about to find out. The pandemic has destroyed tourism, which means that house hoarders who put their hoarded properties up as short-term tourist rentals are now offering them on the ordinary rental market:Property investors are pulling properties from Airbnb to offer ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • The pros and cons of planting trees to address global warming
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Bruce Lieberman It seems like such a simple, straightforward, empowering idea: plant trees – a lot of trees – all over the world, and watch the planet’s temperature fall. Who doesn’t love a tree or two, even far more – the right ...
    5 days ago
  • Not a grand coalition, but a government of national salvation
    According to Newshub, Simon Bridges is open to joining a “grand coalition” with Labour as we hunker down to go into a month long lockdown. The idea is sound. Before now, the role of the opposition was to scrutinise and oppose. In the context of what almost amounts to a ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    5 days ago
  • Raise the Bar: hospitality workers & wage subsidy entitlements
    Kia ora my name is Chloe Ann-King* and I am the founder of Raise the Bar, a campaign and non-profit that gives free legal aid, advocacy and tautoko to hospitality workers in Aotearoa. Right now all over our country hospo workers are being fired at will, having shifts cut or ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    6 days ago
  • Lifting our game against COVID-19
    We need to be lifting our game against COVID-19. You and I need to help those working to prevent the spread of COVID-19 while they’re trying to lift the testing and treatment efforts. We don’t want to be playing this game running backwards. Best to play it solidly forward, from ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    6 days ago
  • The maths and ethics of minimising COVID-19 deaths in NZ
    Prof Tony Blakely, Prof Michael Baker, and Prof Nick Wilson The NZ Government must do more to clearly articulate its COVID-19 strategy: eradication or ‘flattening the curve’ mitigation. But to do so means understanding the maths and ethics of both these strategies. In this blog, we adapt our work for ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    6 days ago
  • All aboard the Covid Train
    A few days ago I was starting to write something about the pandemic, which now seems unconscionable. It took the form of a letter to an agony aunt:“Dear Deidre, I have an ugly confession. I am quite excited by Covid-19.”This is how the piece went:“I’m not a psychopath, honest. Although the ...
    PunditBy Phil Vine
    6 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming Digest #12
    Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... Climate Feedback Article Review... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Reviews... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... In Just 10 Years, Warming Has Increased the Odds of Disasters The likelihood of extreme events ...
    6 days ago
  • We are all socialists now
    Last week, the government announced a $12 billion initial package to support people during the pandemic. Today, the Reserve Bank is buying government bonds - effectively printing money - to keep up the money supply during the crisis. Normally such moves would have the right apoplectic. Instead, the National Party ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • A plea to experts: safeguard your role in public life
    I am a pundit, somebody who opines and comments on the news. There are no real qualifications to punditry though having a rudimentary way with words and good general knowledge helps. That is one reason there is a constant oversupply of would-be pundits and why it is quite hard to ...
    PunditBy Liam Hehir
    7 days ago
  • Enlightenment when?
    I recently encountered the following prescription from a Faculty of Education at a leading New Zealand University. At first I wondered if it was another product of the postmodern generator (http://www.elsewhere.org/journal/pomo/), designed to create gibberish in the postmodern form, but I’m told it is real: The “schooled” society: Towards the ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    7 days ago
  • What the Crisis Can teach Us
    The coronavirus pandemic has of course had a major impact on individual lives and on societies as a whole. But, long after the crisis has passed (assuming it does), we will begin to realise that its real and lasting significance lies in the lessons it has taught us, if only ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    7 days ago
  • Hammering home measures to stop COVID-19
    COVID-19 has plunged Aotearoa New Zealand (indeed, the world) into territory that, while maybe not totally unprecedented, certainly hasn’t been seen during the lifetimes of most of us here today. Our borders are closed to non-citizens, we’re being told not to gather in groups of more than 500 outside/100 inside, ...
    PunditBy Andrew Geddis
    7 days ago
  • What does ‘level two’ mean – and why does it matter?
    For the last few weeks, I’ve been urging you to prepare yourself, your family, business, and community for Covid-19. Now it’s time for real action.  Yesterday the director-general of health Dr Ashley Bloomfield announced another 13 confirmed cases of Covid-19 in New Zealand, bringing our total to date to 52. ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    7 days ago
  • 2020 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #12
    A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week, i.e., Sun, Mar 15, 2020 through Sat, Mar 21, 2020 Editor's Pick Now Isn’t the Time to Forget About Our Climate Change Efforts   Tasha Tilberg, Lindsey Wixson, and Liu Wen photographed ...
    7 days ago
  • Is the Guardian becoming  a real newspaper again?
    by Jan Rivers The article has been corrected to show that it was Ewen MacAskill, former Guardian journalist and not Luke Harding who travelled to meet Edward Snowden with journalist Glenn Greenwald and filmmaker Laura Poitras.  Some of the Guardian’s well-known journalists who did not sign the protest letter are ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Life asserts itself regardless
    by Cultural Worker Late March 2020 amidst the virus. With gigs crashing and burning all around it was without much hope that I called a long standing rest home booking: “ Hi, I’m supposed to be entertaining at your place this afternoon – is it still on?” “”If you don’t ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Politics, the possible, and the pandemic
    Whenever people demand real change from their politicians, we're told that "politics is the art of the possible". The implication is that change isn't possible, so we'd better just get used to the sucky status quo. But now that there's a pandemic, a lot of things we were previously told ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The Only Way Through This Crisis Is Together.
    Together: In leading New Zealand through the Covid-19 Pandemic, the Prime Minister could do a lot worse than allow herself to be guided by the spirit of collective sacrifice and co-operation that animated the New Zealanders of 80 years ago. Most Kiwis alive today have had no opportunity to prove their ...
    1 week ago
  • GFC vs Covid-19
    It is said that generals fight the last war. In the case of the early stages of the Global Financial Crisis (GFC) they had learned from the Great Depression of the 1930s and they fought intelligently and successfully. Later their advice would be ignored in favour of the Austerians who ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    1 week ago
  • Nobody Left Behind.
    Solidarity Forever: All over the world, the arrival of the Covid-19 virus has exposed the fragility of the walls we erect around ourselves and our loved ones. It has shattered our illusions of autonomy and revealed to us how utterly dependent we all are on other human-beings. Finally, we see ...
    1 week ago
  • Rebuilding a truly “Democratic” counter, or a “moderate Republican” bolt-hol...
    Looking across the various arguments for/against the leading candidates to take the Democratic Nomination, you might honestly be very hard pressed to tell. There are a number of things that have now started happening since Amy Klobuchar and “Mayor Pete” Buttigieg both threw the towel in and immediately (and ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Abortion law reform a win for women
    by Daphna Whitmore Abortion is no longer in the Crimes Act in New Zealand. The law reform passed yesterday and now abortion is a medical matter between a woman and her doctor. Many women’s groups and progressive people have campaigned for reform for decades. The women’s liberation movement and some ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • How to spot bogus science stories and read the news like a scientist
    Doug Specht, University of Westminster and Julio Gimenez, University of Westminster When fake news, misreporting and alternative facts are everywhere, reading the news can be a challenge. Not only is there plenty of misinformation about the coronavirus pandemic, climate change and other scientific topics floating around social media, you also ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Why New Zealand needs to continue decisive action to contain coronavirus
    Michael Baker, University of Otago and Nick Wilson, University of Otago With some of the toughest border restrictions and a newly-announced NZ$500 million boost to health services, New Zealand is among a small number of countries with a strategy to contain the COVID-19 pandemic. New Zealand is also fortunate in ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • Parliament and the pandemic II
    As expected, the government has introduced a sessional order to allow Parliament to operate during the pandemic. You can read it on the Order Paper here, but the short version is that questions and motions can be filed electronicly, select committees can work remotely, and the the Business Committee can ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • When a virus goes viral: pros and cons to the coronavirus spread on social media
    Axel Bruns, Queensland University of Technology; Daniel Angus, Queensland University of Technology; Timothy Graham, Queensland University of Technology, and Tobias R. Keller, Queensland University of Technology News and views about coronavirus has spread via social media in a way that no health emergency has done before. Platforms like Twitter, Facebook, ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • How to survive 14 days of self-isolation
    So you’ve recently returned from overseas, come into contact with someone who tested positive, got a bit of a dry cough yourself or perhaps just want to self isolate for 14 days to avoid other people who might have COVID-19. Here are a few tips and tricks to help get ...
    1 week ago
  • Abortion Legislation Bill passes third reading
    Some fave speeches:     ...
    Boots TheoryBy Stephanie Rodgers
    1 week ago
  • Why Leadership Matters – More Than Anything.
    Our Good Fortune: Precisely because she has never been an ideologue (she calls herself a “pragmatic idealist”) Jacinda Ardern has a political nimbleness and spontaneity which, when infused with her exceptional emotional intelligence, produces spectacular demonstrations of leadership. Jacinda's empathic political personality contrasts sharply with the less-than-sunny ways of her ...
    1 week ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #11, 2020
    1 week ago
  • 68-51
    The Abortion Legislation Bill has just passed its third reading, 68-51. NZ First MPs bailed because their referendum amendment didn't pass, but there were plenty of MPs to provide a majority without them. The bill is a long way from perfect - most significantly, it subjects pregnant people who need ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The ‘herd immunity’ route to fighting coronavirus is unethical and potentially dangerous
    As most of the world tries to suppress the coronavirus spread, some countries are going it alone – trying to manage the pandemic through so-called “herd immunity”. Herd immunity means letting a large number of people catch a disease, and hence develop immunity to it, to stop the virus spreading. ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Eight new COVID-19 cases today. It’s no surprise when you look at some numbers
    So, as I sit at home with a very, very slight headache (i.e. not at work when I would otherwise be so), the now familiar figure of Ashley Bloomfield reports eight new confirmed cases of COVID-19  including two in Waikato. A surprise, given that we had just twelve yesterday? No. ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    2 weeks ago
  • The WINZ Paradox versus the new COVID-19 Reality: Get real people, seriously…
    Many who advocated for, and voted for, the current Coalition – particularly those who voted Labour and the Green Party – expected to see a sea change in the reality of social services. A real, deep change of attitude, approach of process through which the system negotiates the difficult and ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • The Air New Zealand bailout
    Stuff reports that the government is going to have to throw $2 - 3 billion at Air new Zealand to get it through the pandemic. Good. While international routes are basicly closed, Air New Zealand is a strategic asset which is vital to our tourism industry, not to mentioning airfreight. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Why NZ’s tough coronavirus travel rules are crucial to protecting lives at home and across the Pac...
    New Zealand’s border restrictions will come with significant job and business losses in the tourism sector, both at home and in the Pacific. But the new travel rules are absolutely necessary to protect the health of New Zealanders and people right across Pacific Islands, because New Zealand is a gateway ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • The tiniest of teeth
    Back in early 2018, as a shoddy legal tactic to try and avoid the prisoner voting ban being formally declared inconsistent with the BORA by the Supreme Court, Justice Minister Andrew Little floated the idea of greater legal protection for human rights. When the Supreme Court case didn't go the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • One simple, common factor to success against COVID-19
    Professor Philip Hill and Associate Professor James Ussher Most infectious diseases have an Achilles heel, the secret is to find it. The question is if we don’t have a drug or a vaccine for COVID-19, is there something else we can do to beat it? Some people estimate that, without ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • National should isolate Simon Bridges
    The Coalition Governments $12.1 billion economic package to help combat the financial effects of COVID-19 was generally well received across the board, even amongst many business leaders who would normally be critical of a Labour led Government.However there was one glaringly obvious exception, Simon Bridges. The so-called leader of the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • How testing for Covid-19 works
    With confirmed cases of Covid-19 in New Zealand up to 12, many influential people are writing open letters and opinion pieces and doing press conferences asking why we aren’t pulling out all the stops and testing thousands of people a day like they are in South Korea. The thing is, ...
    SciBlogsBy Siouxsie Wiles
    2 weeks ago
  • The COVID-19 package and the limits of capitalism
    by Daphna Whitmore The willingness to put human life before business shows that sometimes capitalism is capable of suspending its relentless drive for profit. For a short time it can behave differently. Flatten the curve is the public health message since COVID-19 suddenly overwhelmed the hospital system in northern Italy. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Black April, May and June?
    Worldwide, the 1918 influenza epidemic – wrongly called ‘Spanish’ flu – lasted about two years. However, it lasted about six weeks in New Zealand (remembered as ‘Black November’, because the dead turned a purplish-black). It is thought about 7000 Pakeha died and 2,500 Maori. The population mortality rate was about ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    2 weeks ago
  • COVID 19 has struck… as has a lot of terrible ineptitude from far too many
    In a world and a time when the worst off and most vulnerable have been asked, time and again, to foot the bill for the complete subjugating to the will of the 1% thanks to the GFC, at a point where the world as a whole is now seeing quite ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • What’s in the Coronavirus Package?
    With the economy already reeling from a crisis that’s barely begun, the Government today sought to provide reassurance to workers and businesses in the form of a massive phallic pun to insert much-needed cash into the private sector and help fight the looming pandemic. Here are the key components: $5.1 ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • I just had my benefit suspended during a fucking pandemic
    I am a member of the working poor and so still need state welfare to make rent. So I had booked an appointment for yesterday with my caseworker at Work and Income New Zealand (WINZ) to apply for a transition to work grant. However the current health advice in New ...
    PosseBy chloeanneking
    2 weeks ago
  • A good first step
    Today the government announced a financial package to deal with the effects of the pandemic. So far, it looks good: an initial $500 million for health to deal with immediate priorities, wage subsidies for affected businesses, $585 a week from WINZ for people self-isolating who can't work from home, and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

  • Week That Was: COVID-19 Alert Level 4
    The COVID-19 situation in New Zealand is moving fast - and to avoid what we've seen overseas - the Government's response must be to move fast too. We're committed to keeping New Zealanders safe and well-informed every step of the way. ...
    17 hours ago
  • SPEECH: Green Party Co-leader James Shaw – Ministerial statement on State of National Emergency an...
    Thank you, Mr. Speaker.  The scale of what we face right now is unlike anything we have ever seen before. Overcoming it is our common purpose. ...
    4 days ago
  • Winston Peters urging New Zealanders overseas to stay put
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters is encouraging New Zealanders overseas to stay where they are amid the COVID-19 pandemic. "We are reaching a point where the best option for most New Zealanders offshore is to shelter in place, by preparing to safely stay where they are.” "This includes following the instructions ...
    5 days ago
  • New Zealanders overseas encouraged to shelter in place
    Rt. Hon. Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs Foreign Minister Winston Peters is encouraging the tens of thousands of New Zealanders travelling overseas to consider sheltering in place, in light of COVID-19.  “Since 18 March, we have been warning New Zealanders offshore that the window for flying ...
    5 days ago
  • Ground-breaking abortion law passes, giving NZers compassionate healthcare
    Ground-breaking law has passed that will decriminalise abortion and ensure women and pregnant people seeking abortions have compassionate healthcare. ...
    1 week ago
  • Package supports Kiwis to put collective health first
    The Green Party says that the measures announced by the Government today will help families and businesses to prioritise our collective health and wellbeing in the response to COVID-19. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Winston Peters: COVID-19 rescue package ‘more significant’ than any worldwide
    As New Zealanders brace for a global downturn due to Covid-19, Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters says his Coalition Government’s rescue package "more significant" than any other he's seen around the world. The Coalition is to reveal a multi-billion-dollar stimulus plan on Tuesday afternoon designed to cushion the economic blow ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Our response to COVID-19
    We know some people are feeling anxious about COVID-19. While the situation is serious, New Zealand has a world-class health system and we’re well-prepared to keep New Zealanders safe. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • ‘Demerit Points System’ will address youth crime
    Darroch Ball MP, Spokesperson for Law and Order A New Zealand First member’s bill drawn from the ballot today seeks to overhaul the youth justice system by instigating a system of demerit points for offences committed by young offenders. “The ‘Youth Justice Demerit Point System’ will put an end to ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Investment in kingfish farming
    Hon. Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund is investing $6 million in a land-based aquaculture pilot to see whether yellowtail kingfish can be commercially farmed in Northland, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. A recirculating land-based aquaculture system will be built and operated ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 1BT grants for Northland planting
    Hon. Shane Jones, Minister for Forestry Forestry Minister Shane Jones has announced two One Billion Trees programme grants of more than $1.18 million to help hapu and iwi in Northland restore whenua and moana. “Many communities around Aotearoa have benefited from One Billion Trees funding since the programme was launched ...
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand reaffirms support for Flight MH17 judicial process
    Rt. Hon. Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs Ahead of the start of the criminal trial in the Netherlands on 9 March, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has reaffirmed the need to establish truth, accountability and justice for the downing of Flight MH17 ...
    2 weeks ago
  • PGF investment in green hydrogen
    Rt. Hon. Winston Peters, Deputy Prime Minister The Government is investing $19.9 million through the Provincial Growth Fund in a game-changing hydrogen energy facility in South Taranaki, Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters announced today. “The development of alternative energy initiatives like this one is vital for the Taranaki region’s economy. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Coronavirus support for Pacific
    Rt. Hon. Winston Peters, Minister for Foreign Affairs Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand is partnering with countries in the Pacific to ensure they are prepared for, and able to respond to the global threat of Coronavirus (COVID-19). “There are currently no confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Green Party passes landmark law to ensure deaf and disabled voices heard equally in democracy
    Chlöe Swarbrick's Members Bill to support disabled general election candidates has passed into law. ...
    3 weeks ago

  • Tariff concessions on COVID-19 related products
    New Zealand will temporarily remove tariffs on all medical and hygiene imports needed for the COVID-19 response. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Kris Faafoi said today that the New Zealand Customs Service will apply tariff concessions to all diagnostic reagents and testing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    17 hours ago
  • Clarification of modification to wage subsidy scheme
    Minister of Finance Grant Robertson has clarified that the changes to the wage subsidy scheme announced yesterday mean that employers should be passing on the full subsidy to workers, except in the case where the person’s normal income is less than the level of the subsidy. “We still want employers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Face masks flowing to DHBs
    Medical face masks from the national reserve supply are now being distributed to District Health Boards, while at the same time local production is being ramped up. Yesterday more than 640,000 masks were sent to DHBS – that is an immediate two week supply, with more to follow in coming ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • COVID-19: Further steps to protect New Zealanders’ jobs
    The Government has made modifications to the wage subsidy scheme to ensure people don’t lose their jobs during the national lockdown. These changes will soften the impact of COVID-19 on workers, families and businesses, and position them to exit the lockdown and look to recovery, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Tax relief for Mycoplasma Bovis farmers
    Farmers whose herds were culled in response to the outbreak of Mycoplasma bovis will be able to minimise the tax treatment of their income in some circumstances. Revenue Minister Stuart Nash says Cabinet has agreed to change the law. It means farmers may be eligible to spread their income over ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • $27 million for NGOs and community groups to continue providing essential services
    A $27 million dollar package, effective immediately, is being provided to social sector services and community groups to ensure they can continue to provide essential support to communities as we stay at home as a nation to stop the spread of COVID-19, Minister for Social Development Carmel Sepuloni announced. “At ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Statement on guilty plea of March 15 terrorist
    “The guilty plea today will provide some relief to the many people whose lives were shattered by what happened on March 15,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. “These guilty pleas and conviction bring accountability for what happened and also save the families who lost loved ones, those who were injured, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • COVID-19 updates
    The Prime Minister is holding daily press conferences to update New Zealanders on the Government's response to COVID-19. Links to videos and transcripts of these updates below. These transcripts also include All of Government press conferences led by Director Ministry of Health's Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield. 25 March: Live update from the Prime ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Police numbers break through 10,000 mark
    Frontline Police numbers have broken through the 10,000 mark for the first time in history as officers step forward to keep the community safe during the COVID19 lockdown. “Two Police graduations in Auckland and Wellington in the past week have been conducted in unprecedented circumstances,” Police Minister Stuart Nash said. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Urgent tax measures for economic recovery
    Urgent legislation has been passed to support the package of economic and social measures needed to recover from the impact of the coronavirus outbreak. “The COVID-19 Response (Taxation and Social Assistance Urgent Measures) Bill will cushion New Zealanders from the worst economic impacts of the COVID-19 outbreak,” said Revenue Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Further support for farmers and growers as drought persists
    From tomorrow, Government support for farmers and growers affected by drought will be expanded and extended across the country, with access to Rural Assistance Payments (RAPS) available throughout the North Island, parts of the South Island and the Chatham Islands, Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni announced. “These challenging conditions have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • COVID-19: Temporary changes to Education Act
    Parliament has passed amendments to legislation that give the Secretary of Education stronger powers to act in the fight to limit the spread of COVID-19, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “They are part of a suite of changes passed under the COVID-19 Response (Urgent Management Measures) Legislation Bill,” Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar join NZ and Singapore in committing to keeping supply a...
    Canada, Australia, Chile, Brunei and Myanmar have joined forces with New Zealand and Singapore by committing to keep supply chains open and remove any existing trade restrictive measures on essential goods, especially medical supplies, in the face of the Covid-19 crisis.  Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker today welcomed ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • COVID-19: Rent increase freeze and more protection for tenants
    Immediate freeze on rent increases Tenancies will not be terminated during the lock-down period, unless the parties agree, or in limited circumstances Tenants who had previously given notice can stay in their if they need to stay in the tenancy during the lock-down period Tenants will still be able to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Working together to protect businesses and workers
    As New Zealand unites to lock-down in the fight against COVID-19, the Finance Minister is urging all businesses and workers to stay connected over the next four weeks. “We understand the extreme pressure many businesses are under right now. I know most business owners think of their workers as family ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • State of National Emergency declared to fight COVID-19
    A State of National Emergency has been declared across the country as the Government pulls out all the stops to curtail the spread of COVID-19. “Today we put in place our country’s second ever State of National Emergency as we fight a global pandemic, save New Zealanders’ lives and prevent ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Prime Minister’s statement on State of National Emergency and Epidemic Notice
    Mr Speaker I wish to make a Ministerial Statement under Standing Order 347 in relation to the recent declaration of a State of National Emergency. Having considered the advice of the Director Civil Defence Emergency Management, the Minister of Civil Defence declared a State of National Emergency for the whole of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Deadline for domestic travel extended
    People needing to travel on domestic flights, trains and Cook Strait ferries to get home before the country moves into level 4 lock-down tomorrow night will be able to continue using the passenger services until midnight on Friday, Transport Minister Phil Twyford said today. Domestic passenger services, particularly ferries, have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Mortgage holiday and business finance support schemes to cushion COVID impacts
    The Government, retail banks and the Reserve Bank are today announcing a major financial support package for home owners and businesses affected by the economic impacts of COVID-19. The package will include a six month principal and interest payment holiday for mortgage holders and SME customers whose incomes have been ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Government working to keep air freight moving
    Minister of Transport Phil Twyford has today announced details of the Government’s support package to keep key air freight moving and ensure New Zealanders retain access to essential goods during the four-week level 4 lockdown. “The Government is working with airlines and air freight operators to ensure New Zealand’s key ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • New Zealand moves to COVID-19 Alert Level 3, then Level 4 in 48 hours
    New Zealand moved up to COVID-19 Alert Level 3 – Restrict New Zealand to move up to COVID-19 Alert Level 4 – Eliminate, in 48 hours Two-staged approach to give people and businesses time to prepare  Level 3, from tomorrow Non-essential businesses must close All events and gatherings must be ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Prime Minister: COVID-19 Alert Level increased
    Good afternoon  The Cabinet met this morning to discuss our next actions in the fight against COVID-19.  Like the rest of the world, we are facing the potential for devastating impacts from this virus. But, through decisive action, and through working together, do we have a small window to get ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt takes significant economic decisions as NZ readies for Alert Level 4 in COVID-19 fight
    The Government is announcing significant further support for the economy, workers and businesses as the country unites to prepare for Alert Level 4 in the fight against COVID-19. Cabinet today agreed to remove the cap on the Government’s wage subsidy scheme, which will inject a further $4 billion into the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Govt backs RBNZ move to support economy with lower interest rates
    The Government is backing the Reserve Bank’s latest action to support the economy by reducing longer-term interest rates, meaning lower costs for businesses and mortgage holders, and a lower currency to help our exporters. The Minister of Finance has signed a memorandum of understanding and a letter of indemnity with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government statement on commercial cooperation during COVID-19
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