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Lying liar caught lying again

Written By: - Date published: 7:10 pm, March 27th, 2012 - 194 comments
Categories: uncategorized - Tags:

By “lying liar” I mean Cameron Slater. Here’s his wee effort here last friday:

I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.

Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.

But here’s what he was saying back in 2008:

Thanks for your reply. I have spoken to Phil kitchin and he will take this as easily quietly as you wish. It is important to get the story told and so we will go as fast as you are comfortable.

As Duncan Garner so eloquently put it “Whale lies again

194 comments on “Lying liar caught lying again”

  1. Cactus Kate 1

    So now you saying Whale did speak to Phil Kitchin about ACC matters and fed him this story?
    A bit of context would help.

    Actually given the other day you accused Whale of feeding the Herald this makes Whale somewhat of a media conductor, feeding both sides of a story to fuel a Ministers resignation.

    Russell Brown may need another show to talk about that.

    [lprent: Who are you talking to? The machine (in which case I will educate you about the stupidity of thinking machines have brains), or Zet who has seemed to think that Collins is the leak /author/zetitic/ Either way make up your vague mind so I can take the appropiate action. See the policy. ]

    • Cactus Kate 1.1

      You? We aren’t in Parliament here and you (Lynn) are not the speaker. The Standard is a collective that much is clear. It’s often very hard to differentiate just who “you” is on this site. I use “you” collectively as in all honesty I can’t be bothered working out who precisely is abusing me at any one point in time.
      I shall summarize – there’s so many conspiracy theories going around about Whaleoil and the ACC information that The Standard (all the authors) seem more confused than anyone about what Whaleoil is being accused of.

      [lprent: Different authors have different opinions. We are a cooperative – not a collective. This is quite clear on our about. I realize this may be too subtle for you to understand without an example, but think of the differing opinions in something like the owners of Fonterra. Talk to the people you wish to talk to.

      Don’t talk to me by using the ambiguous “you”. My tolerance drops off sharply when people waste my time by acting like they have a prefrontal lobotomy. ]

      • Harry 1.1.1

        Funny shrill drunk.

        • Cactus Kate 1.1.1.1

          And you are an anonymous pussy who couldn’t argue properly sober.

          • Harry 1.1.1.1.1

            Have another drink darling. It’ll make you feel better about yourself.

            • Cactus Kate 1.1.1.1.1.1

              It didn’t do it for your mother when she was pregnant with you now did it?

              • Harry

                Better make that two. You’ve a lot to feel bad about.

                • Cactus Kate

                  Your mother downed twenty in an afternoon while carrying you to term. Best we all learn from that.

                  • Slap Shot

                    One can only imagine the constant mortification experienced by your parents (or so I am told).

                  • Rosemary

                    You are filth, now fuck off.

                    [lprent: No point in that comment. Read the policy about our views on pointless abuse. Simple assertions don’t constitute a point.. ]

                    • Rosemary

                      So are you saying that what the filthy hateful Odgers says here isn’t pointless abuse:

                      “Your mother downed twenty in an afternoon while carrying you to term. Best we all learn from that.”

                      [You have a point. But equally the moderators will react to shutdown a thread that is degenerating into mindless abuse… and it’s usually the last person in the queue who cops the warning. A polite one in this instance. RL]

        • mickysavage 1.1.1.2

          This particular issue (ACC) has attracted more comments by Cactus and Slater than any issue I can think of.  Sensitive are they?

          • Cactus Kate 1.1.1.2.1

            And there you go. We don’t comment, get accused of being this and that and 200 comments here of abuse later you all wear yourselves out. We do comment and we get that old chestnut.

            • mickysavage 1.1.1.2.1.1

              Well you have to admit that you guys are the subject to all sorts of negative comments here most days.  But on this particular issue there is this really heightened sensitivity?

              What gives?

              I guess being responsible for the destruction of two cabinet ministers’ careers could be sufficient reason. 

            • felix 1.1.1.2.1.2

              Nah, you get accused of being “this and that” when you stink up the place. Most of the time you hardly warrant a mention.

              micky has touched a nerve though, you two have been jumping in whenever this issue comes up and it’s always to deflect and divert.

              It’s a bit bloody obvious frankly.

              • Cactus Kate

                As is the opposition every time. Whaleoil is a frequent topic of many posts and comments on The Standard (www.thestandard.org.nz). If he went on holiday for a month then http://www.thestandard.org.nz would look much like http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz

                [lprent: Wasting my time again? We do about 6 posts per day on average because of the damn weekends. Posts mentioning blubber aka cameron are infrequent.

                /tag/cameron-slater/
                /tag/whaleoil/

                Even an illiterate like yourself should be able to hit a tag link. Unlike Brownlee I don’t think he has rated a category yet. ]

                • felix

                  Only if he took his sockpuppets with him.

                • IrishBill

                  To be fair, Cameron has been very helpful in the PoAL dispute. In fact so much of what he touches turns to shit for the right so often, I think I’d miss him if he left the webs.

                  • David H

                    Well he is becoming the latest foot in the mouth star. If he could ever lift a foot that high..

                • Cactus Kate

                  Now go through the comments and search likewise.

                • Tom Gould

                  @ Cactus, hasn’t blubber boy been on holiday for years now, since his insurer cut him off and he went on the benefit … which he used to brag about?

              • Whaleoil

                Heh, and if we say nothing then some commenter usually say…Slater is still silent on….whatever smear they want to leave out there.

                Damned both ways.

                • felix

                  There’s a third way. You could try telling the truth now and then.

                • IrishBill

                  I think you overestimate your importance, Cameron. If you weren’t such a liability to the right I don’t think we’d give you any airtime at all.

                • lprent

                  Yessss… I can see you have a strong grasp of the tactics. It is your speciality being a complete arsehole devoid of either intelligence or understanding …

                  I am bit constrained here. My colleagues here tend to disapprove of my more personal posts using the tactics you love.

                  • infused

                    Your double standards are so subtle lprent.

                    No personal attacks? Yet you lay personal attacks all the time.

                    • lprent

                      Sure – I am known for a low tolerance for fools and I usually spare little effort in being civil about it. Civility to the socially stupid in my opinion is a false kindness that just encourages the fool to repeat the stupidity.

                      But if you look at the comments I do you’ll always find there is a point expressed forcefully. The actual standard in the policy is that there will be robust debate but no pointless abuse.

                      For abuse to be acceptable on this site there has to be a point behind it, and it can’t just be an assertion that appears to be made up. Hawk asserted one which wasn’t clearly wasn’t correct. Most people writing comments know the bound and act accordingly

                      Of course in my other role as a moderator it is different. For me that is a required task and part of the task is to encourage people not to require me to waste my time. Otherwise I’d get overwhelmed with the amount of time I have to spend on moderating and it’d cut into work and recreation time.

                      So I actively discourage people from repeating their mistakes by being pretty damn nasty. It works pretty well and surprise surprise, it really doesn’t diminish the audience despite all of the predictions to the contrary. Having a malevolent sysop lurking around prepared to be a total arsehole when required actually encourages many more people to comment. The old security cornumbrum appears again.

                    • infused

                      I think that’s a pretty shit response to justify yourself. But do go on. I don’t actually care, just point this out. It is becoming more frequent.

        • David H 1.1.1.3

          The prickly one protecting the slimey one HAHAHAHA

  2. So let me get this straight…According to you and various commenters here over the past few days I have leaked Story A (Pullar’s terrible injustices at the hands of the evil ACC) to Phil Kitchin….

    and Story B (The flip side of Pullar’s story, that of a blackmailing, grasping claimant) to David Fisher at the Herald on Sunday…

    to do what?….Make Michelle Boag looks bad…or is it good, or perhaps just to get Nick Smith…oh I’m confused…

    Now it looks like I have leaked another story (let’s call it Story C) to NBR about Bronwyn Pullar miraculously recovering from having a tonne of kiwifruit on a pallet dropped on her foot.

    I think Cactus is right and Russell is certainly going to have to explore this fully, as is Mediawatch…again…

    Crack me up you guys have made my night.

    [lprent: As I pointed out to your erstwhile partner above, Zet seems to be inclined towards a Collins leak. You’re not going to suggest that the site has a mind are you? Read the policy about how I feel about dumbarses who think that. You really need to tighten up who you’re referring to. Generalized stuff against the site involves wasting my time… Bad idea.. ]

    • IrishBill 2.1

      It looks to me like you either lied to the people emailing you in 2008 or you lied here. Frankly I don’t care what dirty little trick you get up to (although your single handed discrediting of the PoAL anti-union campaign has been greatly appreciated).

      I would say, however, that despite your blustering, and the blustering of your girlfriend, Zet does seem to have caught you saying two distinctly different things. Which indicates you have lied in 2008 or now and have been stupid enough to get caught doing so publicly.

      • Whaleoil 2.1.1

        Oh rubbish…I was accused of shopping the Pullar story to Kitchin…I said I haven’t spoken to him about that…I may have been sloppy in explaining that..but it is true.

        The last time I spoke to Phil Kitchin would have been back then, certainly not since…but since you guys raised the issue that was when your own team shamelessly tried to set me up by lying about Damien o’Connor, throwing him under the bus to get at me…So glad you raised it again.

        If I recall correctly even Russell Brown was aghast that someone on your own team would do that. Oh yes there it is right there on the page Zet linked.

        “It was a pretty dumb stunt, if only because it could easily have gone badly wrong.”

        Still very funny guys…to think you have spent hours searching Google for statements about me and Phil Kitchin just warms the cockles of my heart.

        • Harry 2.1.1.1

          You said ” I have spoken to Phil kitchin”. You weren’t accused of it, you were claiming it yourself. It’s there in black and white. What kind of a deluded moron are you?

        • mickysavage 2.1.1.2

          Well Cameron did you shop the Boag email to Fisher?

          Simple yes or no would be good. 

          • Whaleoil 2.1.1.2.1

            Why would I shop emails from Boag to anyone in the media? If I had them then I would bloody run them myself.

            I certainly wouldn’t wait for a Sunday paper to grind thru the motions.

            Hell, you all think I did it anyway so why wouldn’t I just take the credit for doing it in the first place?

        • Jackal 2.1.1.3

          There is something seriously wrong with you having anything to do with a story about thousands of sensitive ACC claims being leaked Slater… and now you’re waffling about nothing as an explanation.

          You say you were “sloppy in explaining” and that you “never spoke to Phil Kitchin”. However there can be no other interpretation to what you said. Not ever means never… to think otherwise is an absurdity.

          And what about your defamation of a completely innocent person… let’s see some accountability that you’ve previously advocated for and justification for those lies?

          There is nothing funny about it. The problem is that your commentary is now so debunked that only the equally insane believes anything you write on face value. Your repeated lies Slater do a diservice to the New Zealand blogosphere.

          • Whaleoil 2.1.1.3.1

            So says the Plumber.

            • Cactus Kate 2.1.1.3.1.1

              He’s not a plumber who lives in his car anymore, his internet schizophrenia means he now plays another mysterious character, probably Garry Parsloe’s pageboy.

              • burt

                Hey Gary Parsloe still has a job – so he’s doing better than the people he represents…. Dooh!

              • You guys answer the effing question.  Did Slater shop the Boag email to Fisher?  Your continued avoidance of the question suggests there is only one possible answer.

            • Jackal 2.1.1.3.1.2

              That’s right, scurry of into your lies cowards! God forbid you actually own up to being wrong… how would your egos deal with it? Poor RWNJ’s, I’m starting to feel sorry for you again.

        • David H 2.1.1.4

          Open mouth
          insert both feet
          type
          engage brain.
          OOoopps

          Hmmmm sounds about right for the latest liability for the NATS.. Whaleblubber.

    • Lanthanide 2.2

      Glad to see the commenting problems have been worked out and you can comment here, Whale. And yes, I’m being genuinely sincere when I say that, too.

    • McFlock 2.3

      In one link you claimed to have spoken to someone. In another link you subsequently claimed to have never spoken with the same person. Two mutually exclusive statements.
             
      Personally, I don’t give too much of a damn about nat infighting (just as long as everyone involved inflicts serious damage on their opponents’ credibility and political prospects). But I am a little curious as to which of the mutually exclusive statements was an outright lie, and which was in happy coincidence with fact. 
         
      No big deal. 

    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.4

      lprent: look up “estwhile”. It doesn’t mean what you think it means. I only mention this because your go-to form of abuse seems to be to accuse other people of being stupid.

      • Pascal's bookie 2.4.1

        I’m guessing it was a dig at the dynamic duo’s long running, but now sadly defunct co-blogging adventure. It filled a much needed hole in the blogosphere during its existence.

        I think it lasted something less than twenty posts, but I could be wrong about that.

        • felix 2.4.1.1

          Where did they do that?

          • Pascal's bookie 2.4.1.1.1

            I think it was when “Whaleoil” became “Gotcha”.

            launched with a whispery hiss and roar, then some staring at shoes and a mutual agreement that perhaps this wasn’t a particularly good idea.

            Not sure though, second hand info, like I care.

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.4.1.2

          Oh. In that case, don’t I look silly.

      • lprent 2.4.2

        Huh? It refers to their past association. In this case to the startup of the Gotcha site where Whale and Cactus were going blog together on the same site. Lasted a few weeks before the inevitable breakup happened.

        Yep. Checked a dictionary with the correct spelling and it means exactly what I intended to say.

        What did you think that I meant? Perhaps you should review your own knowledge of the word.

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.4.2.1

          Too late. I beat you to it by an hour.

          I was wrong. Sorry.

          • lprent 2.4.2.1.1

            No problem. I picked it up while moderating so I don’t particularly ‘see’ context in that mode. In that mode I’m actually reading comments backwards in time and doing the frogs eye trick. There are particular things that I scan for and I don’t really engage the brain until I ‘see’ something of interest. Then I may look at context.

            So in this case I walked over your later comment as of little ‘interest’ and then hit one referring to me. Since it was addressed to me and not a reply, I didn’t look at context – just answered it.

            Guess you missed that enormously influential period when Whale and Cactus were demonstrating why there is a dearth of multi-author right wing blogs around. Too many bloated ego’s in too small an area. Funny thing is that we don’t see that problem here despite the strong personalities and ego’s. We just cooperate and do what is required in our various areas. You could almost write a whole politics paper on the implications 😈

  3. Pascal's bookie 3

    “I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.”

    Maybe there is some arcane translation of ‘not ever’ in the law that renders it specific to a point in time or context.

    That would be pretty daft though, but if it is the case, then I for one think we should abandon that practice in favour of plain english.

    Because as it is, a plain english reading of the phrase ‘not ever’, would see it as meaning that the speaker had never, not once, not, well, ‘ever’ done the thing in question.

    I’d think that people would use it to rhetorically strengthen the claim that they had not done the thing in the particular case under discussion. They are saying not only did I not do it here, in this specific case, I’ve not done it ever in the general case. As it were

    If it turns out they have in fact done it on some previous occasion, then yep, that makes them a liar about the general case.

    Pointing that lie out doesn’t mean you are saying they did it in the specific case.

  4. felix 4

    The Slater child and his drunk old lady friend seem keen to discuss anything but the post.

    lolz. Not even a good liar either.

    • Whaleoil 4.1

      Fill yer boots…it is yet another post talking about me for some strange reason…clearly you guys have got a thaang going there.

      • Blighty 4.1.1

        You get mentioned sometimes. Not because you’re the goose that lays the golden eggs, as you think Slater. It’s because you’re the goose that shits all over his masters – eg PoAL – and it’s great to watch.

    • Cactus Kate 4.2

      I wish I had some of the whacky weed you take cat man. What’s actually to discuss here?

      • vto 4.2.1

        That’s right, what is to discuss? Lying bastards with no brains? I can go over to sewertown for that.

      • felix 4.2.2

        Whether or not the Slater child is a lying sack of shit, mainly.

    • Cactus Kate 4.3

      Copy of your birth certificate old tomcat so we can judge that for ourselves, given Lynn’s comments about machines, I suspect we are commenting to one now and you are making up your youth, among other things.

      Lolz went out with Vanilla Ice.

      • felix 4.3.1

        Huh? I don’t think I’ve mentioned my youth lately except in terms of my fond memories.

        Have another drink and try again, dear.

        ps yes, I am a machine.

        • Cactus Kate 4.3.1.1

          You are also commenting as Harry or perhaps you shared the same mother hence your anger at women who drink? You need to get over it.

          • felix 4.3.1.1.1

            Sorry gran, but I only comment as felix. You’re having a bit of a spin out there, thinking everyone’s out to get you, thinking people are machines, imagining that people are saying things they’re not.

            Maybe you should think about having a wee break from the high life, eh?

            And I assure you all my favourite women drink, as do I. We just know how to hold onto our shit.

            And thank you for the compliment Lynn, that’s very kind 😀

            • Cactus Kate 4.3.1.1.1.1

              Yes I will create a fake animal name, fake internet identity and pretend I’m say an 18 year old leftie as well so I can abuse other people who can be identified on Blogs.

              “we just know how…” so you are a woman today then if read in that context?

              • felix

                Lol where have I said I’m a teenager? I’m probably older than you, silly goose.

                “so you are a woman today then if read in that context?”

                No, “we” refers to “my favourite women” and “I”. You’ve failed to understand the straightforward use of your first language. It’s ok, it happens to all of us now and then.

                • Cactus Kate

                  So Felix if you are probably older than me, we can take it you probably drink more than me as well and are definitely telling lies,
                  I mean really the quality of commenting has dropped here. You have the benefit of a faux persona and can’t even make up the details to your own advantage.

                  • felix

                    You’re going to feel a bit silly reading these comments in the morning Kate.

                    • Cactus Kate

                      Why? I voted for a party that polled 1.2%. I couldn’t give a stuff about commenting on any blog.

              • Jackal

                Have another drink Catcus… perhaps then you can come up with some proper insults.

                • Cactus Kate

                  Another faceless nameless child in need of $1 a day sponsorship.

                  • Kate can you answer the question?

                    Did Slater shop the Boag email to Fisher?  The continued avoidance of the question suggests there is only one possible answer. 

                    • Cactus Kate

                      Of course I can’t answer it as I am not David Fisher.
                      I would add though if Slater had anything that good, i would expect that he would have stuck it on his own blog first and not given it to anyone else.

                    • Well can you ask Cameron to reply?  You know the story Kate, your antennae goes wild when people continuously avoid the question and talk about something else.  It makes you think that they are not being up front.  

                      So can you ask Cameron if he shopped the email to Fisher?  My repeated asking of this question will cause many to think that this may be the case.  A simple no would be good if Cameron wishes to reply in this way.

                  • Jackal

                    Wow! Sixteen comments so far and not one based in reality. Tell me Catcus, why have you come to the defence of the lying bastard Slater… are you implicated in the scandal as well perhaps?

        • lprent 4.3.1.2

          Unlikely you’re a machine. I couldn’t write such a program, and I don’t know of anyone who could..

          I’d have to rate that as bullshit….. 😈

  5. vto 5

    .
    Fight!

    She’s all go ..

    • Cactus Kate 5.1

      And you love it. Slater and Cactus versus 20 trolls. Not fair odds really, where are your reinforcements?

      • felix 5.1.1

        How are you counting 20? Seeing double, are we?

        Anyway, I thought we were all the same person? Must be hard work keeping up with all your delusions.

        • burt 5.1.1.1

          Meooooow

        • Cactus Kate 5.1.1.2

          Everyone knows this site has core anonymous regulars and then add ons. I shall name them
          Harry, VTO, Burt, Felix, Irish Bill, jackal, Lanthanide, mcFlock, pascals bookie, blights, Eddie, bunji, james henderson, Anthony robbins, rob, ianmac, ghost who walks, colonial viper. I would include Mickey and Lynn but credit to them, we actually know who they are. That’s 20 who will all consistent argue with you here when you may say even the slightest thing they disagree with.

          • vto 5.1.1.2.1

            Ok, I will no longer argue with you if you say something that I disagree with.

            Not that I have ever done that before, so why have you named me? And in capitals. Hope you’re not fantasising.

          • Jackal 5.1.1.2.2

            Some of those you’ve named as anonymous aren’t and most of the aliases you’ve mentioned haven’t commented on this post. Don’t try to discredit The Standard just because you lack information, can’t count and won’t argue the topic up for discussion.

            • Cactus Kate 5.1.1.2.2.1

              I cant discredit a machine,

              • Jackal

                Your jargon can’t discredit The Standard or it’s regular commentators… nice to see you accept the weakness of argument then Catcus.

            • Whaleoil 5.1.1.2.2.2

              Clearly the oxygen in the car is getting a little thin Jackal, might I suggest you wind down the window to clear the condensation and get some fresh oxygen in.

              Everyone knows that you can’t discredit a machine and the collection of scripts and programs running on the multiple threaded processes across multiple sites to enhance the serving speed of “the machine”.

              • Jackal

                Looks like the blood is rushing to your head in an attempt to suppress the truth leaking out to protect mistress Collins and you completely missed the point Slater.

                Besides, the internet and websites are not specifically “machines”… they are programs. A machine has a physical working structure such as a computer or a car. These can most definitely be discredited.

                Catcus must be pretty fucked up to think commentators on The Standard are “machines” ie programs. Good god man are you guys insane or what?

                As an aside, could you tell me why all the traces I put on your IP address end up in Mt Eden jail Slater?

                • lprent

                  They all do for auckland city. It is the centre of the area covered by the ‘district’. NZ doesn’t provide good geographical information unless you look at DSLAM’s at exchange level.

                  • Jackal

                    Thanks for that 1prent. I’m still wondering why they think I’m a plumber from Ruakaka when even a rudimentary trace would show my IP isn’t from that district.

                    • lprent

                      Whale’s ego tends to outweigh his actual technical ability by a few orders of magnitude. It shows whenever he uses his friends technical means.

                      But most likely in your case he swallowed someone’s email bullshit whole. As you can see on the second link in the post he tends to be a complete sucker for a tall story told well. There have been quite a few other complete cockups over the years that have been forwarded to us that we haven’t pursued because there wasn’t enough backing or where we weren’t sure that the hatred wasn’t overwhelming the judgement.

                      This one just has some actual links.

              • lprent

                You did have a technical background once. Lost to idling about?

          • felix 5.1.1.2.3

            Seriously Kate, take a nap. I don’t particularly like you but that doesn’t mean I want to see you make a fool of yourself. We’ve both had a bit of fun trading insults but it’s getting a bit silly now.

            Come back after a sleep and we’ll have a proper talk about what Slater knew, when he knew it, where he heard it, and who he passed it on to.

          • lprent 5.1.1.2.4

            I have published the list of top commentators and posters often enough.

            You missed BLiP and a few other of the regular commentators over the years* Who is ‘Harry’ and ‘blights’ – different blog? Antony/r0b are the same person and the former is his actual name.

            You’re going to seriously piss burt off. 😈

            None of them are exactly anonymous to anyone who reads the blog. Their personalities lurge though just as much as yours does. They certainly argue with each other a lot. None of them has contributed more than 0.5% of the comments and that is only because of CV’s rather extreme 14,180 comments out of our 391,499 comments

            Your point is?

            You should really focus on something that you aren’t quite such a newbie at…

            • Cactus Kate 5.1.1.2.4.1

              Of course they are anonymous to the public, of which I am one because I don’t know the secret handshakes that go on here. Happy to stay a newbie on that.

              • lprent

                Most are “anonymous” to me as well. Unlike you I see their e-mails – many of which are invalid, and their IP’s which to me are pretty solid about who people aren’t. Even the people who use TOR or one of the VPN exit points are as identifiable as hell – mostly because they use such known gateways (less than 3% of our comment traffic comes from overseas IP ranges, and half of those are TOR or VON gateway). If you wanted to be anonymous then there are some easier things to do for anonymity against a sysop. use Ihug or Vodafone is a good start. Their IP ranges move like greased lightning.

                But you ‘identified’ maybe 3% of the commentators and a few of the non commenting authors. Commentators are a fraction of the readers.

                But it is hard to conceal personality in comments. Irish can detect alomost anyone from writing style alone. I can detect most people. It is the most precise technique…. You literally cannot conceal your writing style without looking forced.

                But I suspect you don’t have the required patience or skills to apply the techniques. Few who are too full of themselves are….

              • Lanthanide

                I have no clue who any of the others are, except for those who have revealed their identities.

                I also don’t really track personal details. Seems most people live in the North Island, a few in the smaller cities but most in Auckland (no surprise).

          • burt 5.1.1.2.5

            Cactus

            I take exception to being lumped in with the lefty apologists. OK sure I’m a regular with an alias…. But I’m not a troll “for” the standard (*1).

            *1) The standard being in this context intended to refer to the collective of bloggers who fight hard out to get self serving Labour govt’s elected to implement policies that always fail.

            [lprent: 😈 That took longer than I thought.

            BTW: Some of the authors want a green government. At least two would probably prefer that there wasn’t a government at all and that we’d all just get along without one. ]

            • felix 5.1.1.2.5.1

              Too late burt, you’re well and truly lumped in now. Gooble gobble gooble gobble 😀

              • Akldnut

                Billiant felix, you got a camera into Act’s Caucus and Kates acceptance into the party.
                I note she had a bit to drink there too!

          • David H 5.1.1.2.6

            Damn I’m disappointed I didn’t make the top 20. There again I’m new here. Only been here a coupla years. and only banned once. Oh well something to work for, to be on someones top 20 list, wowweeeeee.

            [lprent: The system shows you as being well down in the top 100 in terms of comments. Hard to tell with the crap searches in safari on a iPad. Having been banned on a moderated site is pretty normal. How else do you learn the edges. I have been booted a few times over the years on various forums. ]

      • Rob 5.1.2

        Now thats a keeper…..

      • vto 5.1.3

        Reinforcements? I don’t think I have any. It’s just me luvvy.

        • felix 5.1.3.1

          Not sure why she thinks you’d need any either…

        • lprent 5.1.3.2

          Yep. vto is definitely a agin the government force of one. Any government.

          I thought he was Act prior to 2010 and ECan.

          • grumpy 5.1.3.2.1

            Stockholm Syndrome……

            • lprent 5.1.3.2.1.1

              Don’t think so. One of the characteristics of the blogs is that there is no confinement. Anyone can walk off to another blog at any time. Definitely not the conditions for Stockholm syndrome to arise.

              I think he is just swinging voter…

      • deuto 5.1.4

        Well there is probably a lot of us. In terms of animal names, particularly cats, if you are looking for one CK, Felix is gone as is Deuto.

        But lets not divert – how about you and WO actually answer MS’ very direct yes or no questions…………

        PS – as an aside, micky – looked up the correct quotation for my comment last night “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” But don’t think either CK or WO rate as a ‘lady’ but interesting that both have deemed to honour us with their presence tonight.

  6. vto 6

    How do cactuses get close? Or are they solitary veges?

  7. fender 7

    Does seem to be a waste of bandwidth to point out something that surely everyone including the midwife could tell from his first cry. But it’s worth being reminded from time to time, that these foul people who support companies that seek a helping hand to spread their bs are not very straight-up and have a rotten core and radiate evilness.

    But at least the whaleslime runs in the gutter where it can be monitored for signs of vigilante behaviour or cult activity.

  8. tsmithfield 8

    The point I would make here is that it is very easy to accuse someone of lying when comparative phrases are taken completely out of their context.

    In the situation cited above, it is clear that the conversations referred to were completely different matters. Here is what I mean:

    Example 1:

    Person A: You told X about Y.

    Person B: I have never spoken to X.

    Example 2:

    Person A: You told X about Z.

    Person B: I have spoken to X.

    Comparing the two statements from person B apart from the context, it seems that person B has completely contradicted themselves. However, what is not considered is the implication contained in the statements when referring back to the context:

    “I have never spoken to X” in the first example includes the implication [about Y].

    “I have spoken to X” in the second example includes the implication [about X].

    In both the examples above, I am fairly certain that the individuals concerned wouldn’t be scanning back over several years when having these conversations. Rather, they would be addressing the point immediately before them, and would understand completely what they were talking about.

    In the article above accusing Whale Oil of lying, the statements have been stripped of their context in the article. However, by following the links back, it is clear that they are referring to conversations (or lack of conversations) that relate to completely different subject matter. When the context of the differing subject matter is taken into account, the apparent contradiction is fairly easily resolved.

    • TS to the rescue.

      What I would really like someone to do, preferably Slater is to answer this very simple question, did he somehow transmit the Boag email to the Herald’s Fisher?

      I am dying to know … 

      • Cactus Kate 8.2.1

        Oh for heavens sake refer to 2.1.1.2.1 and stop yourself from dying.
        You aren’t going to accept the answer whatever it is anyway.

      • Whaleoil 8.2.2

        FFS the answer is No, I did not send the Boag email to Fisher.

        • mickysavage 8.2.2.1

          So who did?  Was it someone in Collins’ office?

          • Cactus Kate 8.2.2.1.1

            Is David Cunliffe currently plotting a coup? And if your answer is no is Grant Robertson? And if your answer is still no we will think of someone else to blame for the current coup rumours and ask you about that too.

            • mickysavage 8.2.2.1.1.1

              DC is not planning a coup.  

              So did someone in Collins’ office release the email?

              Good attempted diversion …

              • Cactus Kate

                Not planning? So Nanaia is doing the planning? Didn’t seem very happy on The nation Sunday.

                • You are such a crack up Kate.  You and Cameron are using all the classic diversion tactics.  Open up.  Let us know what is happening in the National Party.  Is Civil war erupting?  Is the Brat Pack gunning for Collins because she took out Smith?  Did she leak a private email from Boag for political advantage?

                  On the other hand if you do not want to answer that is fine.  I suspect us lefties will sit back and watch this unfold over the next couple of weeks.  Whatever happens I am sure that this Government will not be the same.  

                  And for the people of New Zealand this will be a good thing … 

                  • Cactus Kate

                    No the question has been answered and you are using classic tactics of relitigating what has already been answered.

                    I’ve got no interest or idea about what is going on in the National Party. Contrary to idiot reporters I am neither a member or have I ever voted for them. Despite almost certain electoral annihilation remember, I still voted for ACT.

                • lprent

                  Have you ever seen Nanaia happy? I never have ever… I think that she’d crack if those muscles were ever exercised. Politicians come in all types.

                  Just ask David Garrett – ex Act MP. How could you have voted for him?

                  • Cactus Kate

                    Nanaia looked pretty happy when she thought she was going to be Deputy leader.
                    Her comments about Labour were as guarded as Charles Chauvel’s.

                    Although Im sure she would be equally as unhappy to hear her used to justify bringing up Dabid Garrett again in comparison.

                    • lprent

                      Labour has learned over the decades to simply put up with me. The benefits tend to significantly outweigh the costs when calculated as a whole. I don’t really spend a lot of time worrying about politician’s fragile egos. They are pretty tough if they are pros, and if they are not then I help with their education. And I suspect that Nanaia would be somewhat outspoken if she got pissed off.

                      So you are ashamed of the party that brought Garratt to parliament? He has to be one of the weakest candidates I have seen. Shows that the party members were pretty useless at doing their job….

            • Whaleoil 8.2.2.1.1.2

              Didn’t Grant do well today gazzumping Jacinda in the welfare debate?

              Real leadership potential there, the only question is really, who will be his deputy? Will be David C?

            • lprent 8.2.2.1.1.3

              Coups happen in caucus. Why are you asking a Auckland regional for news about them? The party has bugger all to do with them – worse luck…

              But it is unlikely. The party membership can vote with their feet. Not a lot of point having a nice mid or late term caucus coup and then finding that the new leader can’t win the following election. That is the message that would be coup makers get when they ask.

          • Whaleoil 8.2.2.1.2

            Michelle Boag?

            • Cactus Kate 8.2.2.1.2.1

              Andrew Williams
              Expert in leaks.

            • mickysavage 8.2.2.1.2.2

              That is a good one.  So Michelle Boag opened herself up to ridicule and allegations that she participated in an attempt to extort by sending a private email to the Herald.

              Good one Cameron …

              Did you clear it with her before making this suggestion? 

              • Whaleoil

                An email to a minister can never be private because it is subject to OIA.

                So Michelle, the strategic genius she is writes an email which you describe as extortion to a minister in her capacity as the minister of the department she, as you said, tried to extort….and now is livid that it is public?

                The email is searchable under the OIA so can never be private.

                • Haha

                  If the email was sent to a private address and preceded by a telephone call to make sure it is private but the Minister then decides to treat it as public then it is subject to the OIA but not otherwise.

                  Do you mean that every email to Key and Joyce is subject to the OIA??  I hope you are right.  I can hardly wait …

                  And Boag’s email was definitely not an attempt to extort.  You should be more careful before making such allegations. 

                  • Whaleoil

                    Very precise information there Mickey…

                    You seem to be in the know, certainly more than me. Phone calls in advance…private email addresses…what are you Michelle’s bitch?

                    You state Boag’s email was “definitely” not an attempt to extort…how could you know that? Do you have a copy of it? Definitely is very precise language…and you are a lawyer, you know all about precision with words, don’t you Mickey?

                    You made the allegation…I simply confirmed what you said above. Anyway it matters not because it is a matter of public record that ACC thinks it was an attempt to blackmail or extort and so have laid a complaint with the Police.

                    • Ha Cameron

                      The last time I saw you so animated was  when I mentioned Simon Lusk.  Was he involved in writing any of your ACC and post Smith-resignation analysis?

                      Just a stab in the dark sort of question … 

                  • Whaleoil

                    Whoops…quick diversion there Mickey…seems you do have a copy of the email.

                    Who sent you the email?
                    Was it someone in ACC?
                    What does it actually say, since you have stated it “definitely” wasn’t an extortion email?
                    Why do you have a “private email”, as you have described it, sent to a minister, one that allegedly talks about an ACC claimant?
                    Is that a breach of privacy that you seem to have the email?

                    Many questions, how about some direct answers?

          • hawk 8.2.2.1.3

            You got your answer so shut the fuck up.

            You do sound like a stupid old cunt you really do.

            [lprent: That is at the edge of a pointless abuse since I haven’t seen an definite answer and you didn’t link or point one out. It’d pay you to read the notes in the policy about that style of comment. I tend to regard them as giving me fresh meat to educate about how to insult others in a less stupid and boring way. Then I give them time to contemplate the lesson. ]

            • hawk 8.2.2.1.3.1

              Lprent after i had posted it I realised the foolishness in my post.

              I did try to edit and delete I thought I had changed it however it dod not work.

              Point noted.

              [lprent: No problem – you just catch a warning and I’ll bear the dysfunction on the site in mind.

              Unfortunately I’ve been out of available time for my third role as sysop due to work pressures. So there are some repairs that haven’t been done on the site. One of them is the irritating botchup that the new owners of the re-editing plugin have been doing. ]

  9. tsmithfield 9

    Felix: “Nah. /lying-liar-caught-lying-again/comment-page-1/#comment-451813

    Doesn’t matter. If you include the implication [about Pullar], which was the subject of the post he was responding to, then what he said makes perfect sense, and doesn’t contradict his 2008 statement in the slightest.

    When people are responding to these sorts of things, it is often in a very conversational sort of manner, and responding to the immediate issue. Personally, I don’t expect people to scan through the last decade of their lives before posting. I can also read between the lines to know infer what may have been left out in the course of a reasonably rapid reply.

    • felix 9.1

      Yeah that’s true. If you pretend he didn’t say what he actually said, it’d mean something else.

      • tsmithfield 9.1.1

        Felix “Yeah that’s true. If you pretend he didn’t say what he actually said, it’d mean something else.”

        Are you acting thick or is it for real? As you should well know, context is vital for understanding what is being said.

        If Whale was responding to:

        “You have communicated with Kitchen on various occasions in the past”

        Then asserting that he had never previously communicated with that person would either be forgetfulness or lying.

        However, that wasn’t what he was responding to. It was about his communication with Kitchen about very specific subject matter. Whale’s response, in this context was clearly that he had never communicated with Kitchen about that matter. (implied)

        In my opinion, the accusation against Whale is based on a very cheap trick that doesn’t stand up to much scrutiny.

  10. tsmithfield 10

    You can follow the link as well as I can.

    • felix 10.1

      The link in the post? To Cameron’s comment? Yep I can, Cameron was replying to this comment from js, quoted in full:

      js 7
      23 March 2012 at 1:37 pm

      I heard it was part of an ongoing battle between Michelle Boag and Cameron Slater (National Party chairperson grievance politics) and he leaked the whole story to the Dominion Post. Phil Kitchin has mentioned before how he gets a lot of information from him.

      See that last sentence? “Phil Kitchin has mentioned before how he gets a lot of information from him.”

      To which Cameron replied (again, quoted in full):

      Whaleoil 7.3
      23 March 2012 at 2:54 pm

      I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.

      Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.

      So the context was not limited to this specific matter at all, it was very general about an ongoing relationship between Kitchen and Slater.

      Pretty much the exact opposite of what you said.

      • tsmithfield 10.1.1

        I disagree. You need to look at the wider context of the article and how Slater himself qualifies what he said. The article was: “Who leaked Pullar’s name?”

        So, to start with, the article was clearly about how Pullar’s name got out.

        Now look at Slater’s post:

        I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.

        Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.

        See how Slater has qualified his first sentence with the second. Clearly, due to the second sentence, the inference could be added to his first sentence [about Pullar].

        About the most you could accuse Slater of is being slightly lazy with his language. Accusing him of lying is absurd. Context is everything.

        • felix 10.1.1.1

          That’s not a qualification of what he said. It’s additional to what he said.

          In case you missed it, here ’tis again:

          js: “I heard it was part of an ongoing battle between Michelle Boag and Cameron Slater (National Party chairperson grievance politics) and he leaked the whole story to the Dominion Post. Phil Kitchin has mentioned before how he gets a lot of information from him.”

          Whaleoil: “I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.
          Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.”

          To make your hypothesis work you have to ignore the question and the answer and focus entirely on something else instead. Very weak, smitty.

          • tsmithfield 10.1.1.1.1

            As I mentioned above, you need to also consider the wider context as to what JS might have been talking about. The wider context was the article: “Who leaked Pullar’s name?” If the article had been titled: “Conversations Slater has had with Kitchin”, you would have a much stronger point.

            Slater’s statement could have been constructed as follows:

            I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any
            manner: Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.

            Then the inference would have been very clear. So, in my opinion, it is only a slight inaccuracy in the way Slater has structured his post that gives you any ammunition for accusing him of lying. So far as I am concerned, the implication is very clear that he was limiting the scope of what he was saying. In the end, we both look at things the way we want to, so there probably isn’t a lot more I can say about this point.

            • Pascal's bookie 10.1.1.1.1.1

              You’re still ignoring the actual question that Slater was responding to. An allegation that he has worked with Kitchin, that he has a relationship with him. That is what his statement was in immediate response to.

              In that context, he was denying the relationship exists, that it has ‘ever’ existed, thus strengthening the idea that he could not have been working with him in this instance.

              Your new formulation does nothing to make his claim specific only to this case.

              It’s a trivial lie, of little consequence, but one that is revealing if you like. Slater could easily have just said that he isn’t working with Hitchins on this.

              Instead, he decided, at whatever level of consciousness, to deny that he had ever worked with him. That served a rhetorical purpose that suited him. That the truth was different to what he wrote, perhaps didn’t just bother him, in that case you could say that he was bullshitting about it rather than lying.

              But good lord you say some ridiculous shit, I have to say.

            • felix 10.1.1.1.1.2

              “you need to also consider the wider context as to what JS might have been talking about.

              I did. S/He is talking about an ongoing relationship between Slater and Kitchin, not restricted or limited to this particular case. You’re trying to narrow the context to exclude that fact.

              “Slater’s statement could have been constructed as follows”

              It could have been phrased as a lunch order, but it wasn’t. It was phrased as a black and white denial of the previous statement.

              You’re looking at things you think might have happened (but can’t show) and things you wish happened (but definitely didn’t) and completely ignoring what did happen (which we can all see for ourselves).

              Smitty, do you mind awfully if we discuss what was actually said instead?

              Thanks.

              edit- Shorter felix: what P’s b said.

  11. Perhaps I’m misinterpreting what went on with the 2008 ‘stunt’ linked to in the post – but it seems to me that Cameron Slater had a very juicy story but didn’t post it ‘first’ on his blog, and didn’t intend to do so (limiting himself to ‘tid-bits’).

    Instead, (if I’m correct?) he contacted Phil Kitchin to try to get it first reported in a mainstream newspaper.

    If that is the case, then clearly having a juicy story does not necessarily mean that Mr Slater would first put it on his blog but that, in some circumstances at least, he would try to get it reported in the mainstream press first.

    Doesn’t it?

    So the defence, in the present case, that if he’d had the information he would have put it on his own blog first is not necessarily a ‘clincher’, in terms of clear denial that he ‘leaked’ the email. 

    But perhaps I’m missing something. 

    • hawk 11.1

      No think your thinking on the matter mkes perfect sense, however that does not allow the commentators in here to have a good old bun fight.

      So they should thank you for not posting your sensible comments until they had their fun.

    • Colonial Viper 11.2

      If that is the case, then clearly having a juicy story does not necessarily mean that Mr Slater would first put it on his blog but that, in some circumstances at least, he would try to get it reported in the mainstream press first.

      Slater knows that for an important story, the MSM would be able to reach a far wider audience far more credibly.

      Then post MSM release he would add his 2c worth of spin.

      Which therefore suggests that Slater acts as an unofficial (arms’ length) distribution channel to the MSM, as one of his primary roles for his right wing paymasters.

  12. Lying liar caught lying again
    Written By: Zetetic

    It’s good to see such a strong line in the sand here against bloggers telling lies. Perhaps this may set a benchmark for all bloggers to stick to facts and truths. That could also encompass a stand against mistruths and statements of “opinion” designed to dishonestly smear and discredit.

    Will you lead the way in a campaign for blog truthfullness? This post could be a permanent reminder.

  13. Fortran 13

    When I saw the heading I wondered what Len had been up to this time.

  14. KevinH 14

    Pullar was totally aggrieved with her negotiations with ACC and dragged in a number of political heavyweights, including Michele Boag, to help out with ther case. This would of got tongues wagging down on the beltway including media in the loop ie bloggers.
    This story was hushed up from the start but couldn’t be contained because of the alleged speculation from NZ First that made it so juicy that eventually it blew. Who sent the emails is irrelevant, the story was out and it was just a matter of time before it went public.

  15. Treetop 15

    I still want to know if Pullar gave permission for Boag to email Collins?

  16. randal 16

    I want to know if God is really on Slaters side?
    or is it just another fib.

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    3 days ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Public sector dysfunction should not be allowed to undermine freedom of information
    Another day, another piece of legislation with a secrecy clause. This time its the innocuous-seeming Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission Bill, which (after establishing a new body and making it subject to the OIA in three different ways) includes the rapidly-becoming-standard clauses enabling it to request information from other public ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • “This is England, this knife of Sheffield steel…”
    The state of the United Kingdom is fractured, torn up, shredded. The Empire is gone, it died a long time ago. And yet, the country is still tracking with a lead in favour of the ones who play to the ingrained, class-bound division for political gain. It is a disgrace ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    5 days ago
  • CORSIA, coming soon to an airport near you
    On 27 September, Greta Thunberg addressed a crowd of 500,000 at the School Strike for Climate in Montreal, saying: “You are a nation that is allegedly a climate leader. And Sweden is also a nation that is allegedly a climate leader. And in both cases, it means absolutely nothing. Because ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    5 days ago
  • Cloaking hate speech and fake news in the right to free expression.
    It should be obvious by now but let’s be clear: The same folk who regularly traffic in disinformation, misinformation and “fake news” are also those who most strongly claim that their freedom of expression rights are being violated when moves are made to curb hate speech (as opposed to protected ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    5 days ago
  • The Physics (and Economics, and Politics) of Wheelchairs on Planes
    Michael Schulson When Shane Burcaw flies on an airplane, he brings along a customized gel cushion, a car seat, and about 10 pieces of memory foam. The whole arsenal costs around $1,000, but for Burcaw it’s a necessity. The 27-year-old author and speaker — who, alongside his fiancée, Hannah ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    5 days ago
  • To Advance Civil Rights, Oppose Transgender Extremism
    We are very pleased to publish this submission is from Lucinda Stoan. She is a social justice activist, mother, and educator, based in Washington State in the  US.   This detailed and comprehensive source-linked overview of trans issues and what is at stake will be useful for many people, especially in ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    6 days ago
  • Faafoi should be fired
    Newshub last night reported that Broadcasting Minister Kris Faafoi had apparently promised to help out a mate with an immigration issue. While its normal for people to approach MPs for assistance in this area, when you're a Minister, the rules are different: as the Cabinet Manual says, Ministers must "at ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Adrian Orr – The Reserve Bank’s Revolutionary Governor?
    New Zealand's Underarm Banker: It bears recalling that the “independence” of the Reserve Bank Governor was for decades held up by neoliberal capitalists as the most compelling justification for passing the Reserve Bank Act. Interesting, is it not, how the ruling class’s support for the Bank’s independence lasted no longer than ...
    6 days ago
  • Driving Us Up The Poll.
    Rubbish In, Rubbish Out: Put all this together, and it’s difficult to avoid the conclusion that anyone who responds positively to a pollster’s request to “answer a few questions” is just ever-so-slightly weird. Desperately lonely? Some sort of psephological train-spotter? Political party member primed to skew the poll for or against ...
    7 days ago
  • Jordan Williams, Colin Craig podcast series announced
    “Free at last, Free at last, Thank God almighty we are free at last.” ― Martin Luther King Jr. A long and bitter court feud between former Conservative Party leader Colin Craig and Jordan Williams has been settled, with an apology and compensation from Williams. On Tuesday, Craig sent out ...
    The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
    7 days ago
  • How plant-based meat is stretching New Zealand’s cultural and legal boundaries
    Samuel Becher, Victoria University of Wellington and Jessica C Lai, Victoria University of Wellington Earlier this year, the New Zealand-based pizza chain Hell Pizza offered a limited-edition “Burger Pizza”. Its customers weren’t told that the “meat” was plant-based. Some customers complained to the Commerce Commission, which enforces consumer law in ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Scientific integrity requires critical investigation – not blind acceptance
    Some people seem to want to close down any critical discussion of the current research into the relationship between water fluoride and child IQ. They appear to argue that claims made by researchers should not be open to critical review and that the claims be accepted without proper consideration ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: The shameful reality
    The government has been congratulating itself over the passage of the Zero Carbon Act, which sets out long-term emissions targets. Meanwhile, Climate Action Tracker has the shameful reality: those targets are insufficient:While New Zealand is showing leadership by having passed the world’s second-ever Zero Carbon Act in November 2019, under ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • More secrecy
    The government introduced a Racing Industry Bill today. As an urban who horse racing as pointless-to-cruel, and gambling as a tax on stupidity and/or hope, this isn't normally a bill which would interest me in the slightest, beyond grumpiness at more government money for a dying industry. But there is ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Unlikely online bully, Liam Hehir
    Check. Check. One, two, three, four. Is this thing ON? Hello readers, I logged in last night (yeah, it’s been a while) to mark THE END of the landmark legal case, Jordan Williams v Colin Craig, which (gulp) reached The Supreme Court, in which New Zealand’s most-defamed man was suing the politician he ...
    The PaepaeBy Peter Aranyi
    1 week ago
  • The Birth Of Israel: Wrong At The Right Time.
    Before The Birth: Israel’s most fervent supporters set their clocks ticking in Biblical times. They cite the kingdoms of David and Solomon as proof that, in the words of the Exodus movie’s theme-song: “This land is mine.” The majority of Israel’s backers, however, start their clocks in 1933 – the year Adolf ...
    1 week ago
  • Hard News: Public Address Word of the Year 2019: Korero phase
    In an unreliable, strange and confusing world, Public Address is proud to present a measure of comfort and stability by annually asking everyone what words or phrases sum up the year that's been – and then giving some of them consumer goods as prizes for being clever or simply lucky.Well, ...
    1 week ago
  • Generalist to specialist
    Both my parents are pretty handy – and they seem to have the right tools for most jobs in the garage and they know how to fix practically anything. A similar story could be told about their generation’s experience in the workforce – being a generalist was not unusual and ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • A “coincidence”
    When it was revealed that NZ First had tried to enrich itself from public office via the Provoncial Growth Fund, the Prime Minister assured us that everything was OK as Shane Jones, the Minister responsible for the fund, had recused himself. Except it seems that that recusal came very late ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Member’s Day
    Today is a Member's Day, and probably the last one of the year. After the marathon of the End of Life Choice Act, most of the bills up for debate today are uncontentious. First up is the second reading of Chlöe Swarbrick's Election Access Fund Bill. This will be followed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Worse than I thought
    The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has reported back on the government's odious and tyrannical control orders bill. As expected, the fraudulent select committee process has made no significant changes (partly because they couldn't agree, but mostly because it was a stitch-up from the start, with no intention of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The cannabis bill and the referendum
    Yesterday, the government released its draft Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill, which will be put to a non-binding referendum at the next election. I'm not a drug policy expert, but Russell Brown is, and he thinks its pretty good. And pretty obviously, it will be a massive improvement on the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Hard News: The Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill: pretty good so far
    As you're probably aware, the draft bill outlining the proposed legal cannabis regime to be put to a referendum late next year was published yesterday, and has already attracted a flurry of comment. It's notable that a good deal of the comment is about proposals that aren't actually new.A minimum ...
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Alignment
    One of the big problems in New Zealand climate change policy is the government working at cross-purposes with itself. It wants to reduce fossil fuel use, but encourages oil and gas exploration. It wants to reduce transport emissions, but then builds enormous new roads. The problem could be avoided if ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • How climate change will affect food production and security
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz According to the United Nations, food shortages are a threat ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • More bad faith
    Last year, the government announced it was ending offshore oil exploration by no longer issuing new permits. The idea was that the industry would then die off as permits expired. Except almost immediately the government revealed its bad faith, by saying they would extend permits and alter conditions to keep ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Banning foreign money from our elections
    The government has said it will ban foreign donations to political parties and candidates, and will be introducing legislation to be passed under all-stages urgency this afternoon. While I agree with the goal, I don't see a particular case for urgency, unless the government is concerned about a flood of ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Reforming the Education Acts
    The government introduced the Education and Training Bill to Parliament yesterday. Its a massive bill, which replaces both existing Education Acts, as well as various other bits of legislation (including some which are still proceeding through the House). I'll leave the serious analysis to teachers and people who actually know ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Bite-sized learning
    Amelia SharmanThere’s no one-size-fits-all when it comes to micro-credentials, those bits of bite-sized learning that can help workers stay on top of technological change.  What’s a micro-credential? While definitions vary, micro-credentials can be understood as short courses that allow people to learn new skills or have an existing competency recognised. ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • “Not The Labour Party We Once Knew.”
    All Smiles Now: Claire Szabo is taking up her presidential role after serving as the CEO of Habitat For Humanity. Which is absolutely perfect! After KiwiBuild was so comprehensively mismanaged by Phil Twyford, the party has not only elected a new president from a thoroughly respectable not-for-profit, but one who ...
    1 week ago
  • Marxist versus liberal methodology on transgender ideology/identity politics
    While much of the NZ left has transitioned to postmodern and identity politics in relation to transgender ideology, there are some very good articles about that deploy Marxist methodology in relation to this subject.  The one below is from the British marxist group Counterfire and appeared on their site here ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Book review: The Farm by Joanne Ramos
    by Daphna Whitmore At Golden Oaks, a luxurious country retreat in the Hudson Valley, pregnant women have the best care money can buy. From the organic food, personalised exercise programmes, private yoga instruction and daily massages Golden Oaks looks like a country lodge for the upper class. Set some time ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Loosening the purse strings
    When Labour was running for election in 2017, it felt it needed to demonstrate "fiscal responsibility" and signed itself up to masochistic "budget responsibility rules". It was a fool's errand: the sorts of voters who demand fiscal responsibility are also the sorts of voters who believe that labour can never ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: How to get there
    Writing in Stuff, Joel MacManus looks at what we need to do to meet the Zero Carbon Act's targets. The core of it:1. Convert 85 per cent of vehicles on the road to electric. 2. Eliminate fossil fuels from all industrial heating up to 300 degrees Celsius. 3. Double our ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • anti-vaxxers in a measles epidemic: so many ways to be untruthful
    “Anti-vaxers are a pro-death movement,” those comments from Dr Helen Petousis-Harris speaking about six more Measles related deaths in Samoa over the past twenty-four hours. “Anti-vaxers are a pro-death movement,” those comments from Dr Helen Petousis-Harris speaking about six more Measles related deaths in Samoa ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    1 week ago
  • Is Youth Vaping a Problem in New Zealand?
    Professors Janet Hoek and Richard Edwards, Emeritus Professor Phil Gendall, Jude Ball, Dr Judith McCool, Anaru Waa, Dr Becky Freeman Recent media reports have presented conflicting evidence on youth vaping in NZ. While some NZ school principals report concerns about increasing vaping on school grounds and confiscating vapes, ASH Year ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • In pursuit of “Freedom and Democracy”: Forever Wars in “America’s backyard”.
    “America the Beautiful!”, staunch defender of democracy, freedom and… a whole lot of despotic tyrants that play nice with what is called “the Washington Consensus.” America is indeed capable of immense good, but like any Nation, and most assuredly any aspirant to the mantle of Empire, great, immense evil. All ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 weeks ago
  • November ’19 – NZ blogs sitemeter ranking
    Image credit: The beginner’s guide to blogging I notice a few regulars no longer allow public access to the site counters. This may happen accidentally when the blog format is altered. If your blog is ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Whodunnit? Finding the mystery 1080 testing lab
    1080 is used to control pests in NZ. Its use is contested by a noisy few. A new report claims high levels of 1080 in rats washed up on a beach. Flora and Fauna of Aotearoa (F&F) won’t name the laboratory that did their testing. It has sparked a hunt ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    2 weeks ago
  • Authoritarian Friends, Democratic Enemies.
    What Kind Of Empire? The thing for Kiwis to decide is what kind of empire they want to belong to. The kind that, while offering its own citizens democratic rights, demands absolute obedience from its “friends”? Or, the kind that, while authoritarian at home, takes a relaxed attitude to the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Boris Johnson Goes Down
    It hasn't been a good week for the Conservatives, pollwise.  All major recent polls are showing their lead shrinking.Comparing each pollster's current (between 29/11 and 22/11) and previous most recent poll.Com Res - Conservative lead down 3 points.You Gov - Conservative lead down 1 point.Kantar - Conservative lead down 4 ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Interesting
    Within quick succession, Countdown maths wizard and twitterer Rachel Riley, alleged comedian David Baddiel and prominent lawyer Andrew Julius have all expressed very similar opinions / ideas:
    These #3billboards are going round London today, organised by ex-Labour people, horrified by what their party has become. Their principles haven’t changed, they’re ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Damn the Polls
    So, there have been a bunch of bad polls out for Labour, and even the Leftie's friend, Survation, have recently given the Conservatives a rip-snorting 11% lead.  You Gov's much vaunted MRP poll - which pretty much nailed the result in 2015 - is currently predicting a comfortable majority for ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Europe declares an emergency
    The European Parliament has voted overwhelmingly to declare a climate emergency:The European parliament has declared a global “climate and environmental emergency” as it urged all EU countries to commit to net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. The vote came as scientists warned that the world may have already crossed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • A Bi-Partisan Commitment To X-ing “P”.
    Pure Fear: Worse than Heroin, this drug’s addictive power was terrifying. People under its influence didn’t drift off to Elysium. Nor did it persuade inadequate individuals that they could conquer the world. No, this drug – pure crystal methamphetamine, “P” for short – unlocked the gates of Hell itself. It ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Advice about measles: when ignorance is definitely not a virtue
    As the rate of measles infection, and of deaths, continues to climb in Samoa, antivaccination activists infectious disease proponents seem intent on doubling down on their claims about vaccination. (Check pretty much any news-media FB post about measles & you’ll see exactly what I mean.) Unfortunately, some of them have ...
    SciBlogsBy Alison Campbell
    2 weeks ago

  • Government takes bite out of loan sharks
    The days of vulnerable consumers falling victim to loan sharks, truck shops and other predatory lenders are numbered, following the Credit Contracts Legislation Amendment Bill passing its third reading tonight. “Too many Kiwis are being given loans that are unaffordable and unsuitable, trapping them in debt and leaving their families ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago
  • New Zealand safer as Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders Bill) becomes law
    A Bill that prevents terrorism and supports the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas has passed its third reading, Justice Minister Andrew Little says. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill is a carefully targeted response to manage the risk posed by a small number of New Zealanders who have ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 hours ago
  • Foreign Minister and Pacific Peoples Minister to visit Samoa
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio will travel to Samoa on Friday, where New Zealand medical teams are helping Samoa respond to an outbreak of measles. “New Zealand has been working closely with the Government of Samoa and offering our assistance from the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • New Pastoral Care Code will support tertiary students in 2020
    The Government has changed the law to improve student safety and welfare in university halls of residence and other student accommodation. The Education (Pastoral Care) Amendment Bill passed its third reading this afternoon and details of an interim Code of Practice setting out the Government’s expectations of tertiary providers have also been released. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • New infrastructure funding tool to build housing developments faster
    A new tool to help councils fund and finance infrastructure could mean some housing developments happen a decade earlier than currently planned, Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford said today. “This new tool, developed by the Government in partnership with industry and high-growth councils, will allow councils to access private debt ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Vision to unite the primary sector launched today
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor has welcomed the release of a bold new vision for the country’s vital food and fibre sector. “I’m delighted that New Zealand’s major farmer and grower organisations are today supporting the Primary Sector Council’s vision – Fit for a Better World,” he said. “The international consumers ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • NZ congratulates PNG and Autonomous Bougainville Government on referendum
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has congratulated the Government of Papua New Guinea and the Autonomous Bougainville Government for completing a well-conducted referendum on the future political status of Bougainville. “New Zealand supported the referendum process by providing technical advice through the New Zealand Electoral Commission and leading a Regional Police ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    8 hours ago
  • Next steps for Upper North Island logistics
    In light of Cabinet’s position that freight operations on prime land in downtown Auckland are no longer viable, the Government will now embark on a short work programme to enable decision-making in the first half of next year, Associate Transport Minister Shane Jones says. Minister Jones is today releasing the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    8 hours ago
  • Surgical mesh restorative justice report received
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter has received the report back from a surgical mesh restorative justice process undertaken by Victoria University. The process heard stories, either in person or online submission, from more than 600 people affected by surgical mesh. “The report made for heart-breaking and confronting reading,” says ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • The Water Services Regulator Bill – Taumata Arowai a milestone for drinking water safety
    The Water Services Regulator Bill – Taumata Arowai , introduced to Parliament today, is a milestone for drinking water safety in New Zealand and will help improve environmental outcomes for urban waterways, rivers and lakes.  “This is a breakthrough for New Zealanders in terms of providing safe drinking water throughout ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • Speech to new direction for criminal justice reform announcement
    Kia ora koutouE ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā matā wakaTēnā koutou katoaHaere ngā, moe maiKoutou ma ngā Rangatira Ko Anaru ahauKo au te Minita mo ngā TureHe Honore tino nui kei roto I ahau No reira tena koutou katoa Today, we are releasing two reports that are the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • New direction for criminal justice reform
    The Government is looking to turn around the long-term challenges of criminal justice by taking a new approach to break the cycle of offending to ensure there are fewer victims of crime. Justice Minister Andrew Little released two reports today, Turuki! Turuki! from Te Uepū Hāpai I te Ora, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • New law sets up $300m Venture Capital Fund
    New Zealand firms expanding beyond the start-up phase are set for more support after today’s passage of the Venture Capital Fund Bill, Associate Finance Minister David Parker said. The Bill, which establishes a $300 million Venture Capital Fund, puts in place a key initiative of the Wellbeing Budget’s economic package. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New Zealand’s National Statement to COP25
    E ngā mana, e ngā reo, e ngā iwi, e ngā rau rangatira mā. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa. Señora Presidenta, Excellencies, Delegates. International action A common thread that runs through the Paris Agreement is the commitment we have made to each other to do what we can to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • $12 billion in extra infrastructure investment
    The Government is lifting capital investment to the highest level in more than 20 years as it takes the next step to future-proof New Zealand. Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced $12 billion of new investment, with $8 billion for specific capital projects and $4 billion to be added to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Strong economy, careful spending gives $12bn of surpluses
    The Government is forecast to run $12 billion worth of surpluses across the four years to 2023/24 as the economy continues to grow. The surpluses will help fund day-to-day capital requirements each year. These include fixing leaky hospitals, building new classrooms to cover population growth and take pressure off class ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Priorities for 2020 Wellbeing Budget outlined
    Budget 2020 will continue the Coalition Government’s focus on tackling the long-term challenges facing New Zealand while also investing to future-proof the economy. When the Government took office in 2017 it was left with crumbling infrastructure, severe underinvestment in public services, degraded rivers and lakes, a housing crisis and rising ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Minister welcomes data-rich coastline mapping tool
    The Minister responsible for the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act 2011 (te Takutai Moana Act 2011), Andrew Little has welcomed the launch of an online geospatial tool that provides data-rich, dynamic coastline maps that will significantly boost research and evidence-gathering under the Act. Te Kete Kōrero a Te ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Chief Victims Advisor reappointed for a further two years
    The Chief Victims Advisor to Government Dr Kim McGregor, QSO, has been reappointed in her role for a further two years. Dr McGregor has held the role since it was established in November 2015. She provides independent advice to government on how to improve the criminal justice system for victims. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New Zealand tsunami monitoring and detection system to be established
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Civil Defence Minister Peeni Henare have today announced the deployment of a network of DART (Deep-ocean Assessment and Reporting of Tsunami) buoys. “New Zealand and the Pacific region are particularly vulnerable to natural disasters. It is vital we have adequate warning systems in place,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • DART Buoys Announcement
    DART Buoys Announcement Aotea Wharf, 9.30am 11 December 2019   Acknowledgements Acknowledgements to Minister for Civil Defence Hon Peeni Henare also here today. White Island It is with regret that this event shadows the tragic natural disaster two days ago. The volcanic eruptions on White Island have claimed 5 lives, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Final steps for racing industry reform
    Racing Minister Winston Peters has welcomed the first reading of the Racing Industry Bill in parliament today. This is the second of two Bills that have been introduced this year to revitalise New Zealand’s racing industry. “Our domestic racing industry has been in serious decline.  The Government is committed to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Funding to promote New Zealand Sign Language initiatives
    Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni, is pleased to announce that $291,321 is to be awarded to national and local community initiatives to maintain and promote the use of New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL). “New Zealand is one of the few countries  in the world where Sign Language is an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • How New Zealand defines and recognises veterans
    Minister for Veterans Ron Mark has announced today the Coalition Government’s initial response to work completed by the independent statutory body, the Veterans’ Advisory Board. “When Professor Ron Paterson completed his review of the Veterans’ Support Act in 2018, he made a number of recommendations, including one which I referred ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Government to fund lion’s share of Ohakea water scheme
    The Government will fund the bulk of the cost of a rural water supply for the Ohakea community affected by PFAS contamination, Environment Minister David Parker announced today at a meeting of local residents. This new water scheme will provide a reliable and clean source of drinking water to the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Prime Minister statement on White Island eruption
    I have had the opportunity to be briefed on the details of the volcanic eruption of Whakaari/White Island, off the coast of Whakatane in the Bay of Plenty.  The eruption happened at 2.11pm today.  It continues to be an evolving situation.  We know that there were a number of tourists ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Govt funds $100k for weather-hit communities
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Minister of Civil Defence Peeni Henare have today confirmed initial Government support of $100,000 for communities affected by the severe weather that swept across the South Island and lower North Island over the weekend. The contribution will be made to Mayoral relief funds across the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Death of NZ High Commissioner to Cook Islands
    New Zealand's High Commissioner to the Cook Islands, Tessa Temata, died in Palmerston North over the weekend, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said today. Ms Temata, 52, had recently returned to New Zealand for medical treatment. "On behalf of the Government and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, we extend ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Wellington rail upgrade full steam ahead
    Transport Minister Phil Twyford today announced construction is underway on Wellington commuter rail upgrades which will mean more frequent services and fewer breakdowns. The upgrades include converting the Trentham to Upper Hutt single track section to a double track, with a new signalling system, upgraded stations and level crossings, and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Defence Climate Change Implementation Plan released
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark and Minister for Climate Change James Shaw have announced the release of a Defence Climate Change Implementation Work Plan, titled Responding to the Climate Crisis: An Implementation Plan.  The plan sets out a series of recommendations based on the 2018 New Zealand Defence Assessment, The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Govt releases funding to support South Canterbury
    A medium-scale adverse event has been declared for the South Canterbury district, which will see up to $50,000 in funding made available to support farming communities which have been significantly affected by recent heavy rain and flooding in the area, says Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. “Two weeks of solid rain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech at launch of Rethinking Plastics Report
    Thank you Professor Juliet Gerrard and your team for the comprehensive and extremely helpful report and recommendations. Thank you too to all the stakeholders and interested parties who have contributed ideas and thinking to it. “Making best practice, standard practice” is a great framework for change and the action plan ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Govt pledges next steps on plastic waste
    The Government will phase out more single-use plastics following the success of its single-use plastic bag ban earlier this year and the release today of a pivotal report for dealing with waste. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has welcomed the Rethinking Plastics in Aotearoa New Zealandreport, released by her Chief Science Advisor ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • International student enrolments grow in universities and the regions
    International education continues to thrive as the Government focuses on quality over quantity, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said. The tuition revenue from international education increased to $1.16 billion last year with the average tuition fee per student increasing by $960. The total number of international students enrolled in New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to Government Economics Network 2019 Conference
    I want to talk about one of the most pressing issues in our national life: the housing crisis and the poor performance of our cities. The argument I want to make to you is that generations of urban land use policy have lacked a decent grounding in economics. The consequences ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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  • DHB leadership renewed and strengthened
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