Lying liar caught lying again

Written By: - Date published: 7:10 pm, March 27th, 2012 - 194 comments
Categories: uncategorized - Tags:

By “lying liar” I mean Cameron Slater. Here’s his wee effort here last friday:

I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.

Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.

But here’s what he was saying back in 2008:

Thanks for your reply. I have spoken to Phil kitchin and he will take this as easily quietly as you wish. It is important to get the story told and so we will go as fast as you are comfortable.

As Duncan Garner so eloquently put it “Whale lies again

194 comments on “Lying liar caught lying again ”

  1. Cactus Kate 1

    So now you saying Whale did speak to Phil Kitchin about ACC matters and fed him this story?
    A bit of context would help.

    Actually given the other day you accused Whale of feeding the Herald this makes Whale somewhat of a media conductor, feeding both sides of a story to fuel a Ministers resignation.

    Russell Brown may need another show to talk about that.

    [lprent: Who are you talking to? The machine (in which case I will educate you about the stupidity of thinking machines have brains), or Zet who has seemed to think that Collins is the leak Either way make up your vague mind so I can take the appropiate action. See the policy. ]

    • Cactus Kate 1.1

      You? We aren’t in Parliament here and you (Lynn) are not the speaker. The Standard is a collective that much is clear. It’s often very hard to differentiate just who “you” is on this site. I use “you” collectively as in all honesty I can’t be bothered working out who precisely is abusing me at any one point in time.
      I shall summarize – there’s so many conspiracy theories going around about Whaleoil and the ACC information that The Standard (all the authors) seem more confused than anyone about what Whaleoil is being accused of.

      [lprent: Different authors have different opinions. We are a cooperative – not a collective. This is quite clear on our about. I realize this may be too subtle for you to understand without an example, but think of the differing opinions in something like the owners of Fonterra. Talk to the people you wish to talk to.

      Don’t talk to me by using the ambiguous “you”. My tolerance drops off sharply when people waste my time by acting like they have a prefrontal lobotomy. ]

      • Harry 1.1.1

        Funny shrill drunk.

        • Cactus Kate

          And you are an anonymous pussy who couldn’t argue properly sober.

          • Harry

            Have another drink darling. It’ll make you feel better about yourself.

            • Cactus Kate

              It didn’t do it for your mother when she was pregnant with you now did it?

              • Harry

                Better make that two. You’ve a lot to feel bad about.

                • Cactus Kate

                  Your mother downed twenty in an afternoon while carrying you to term. Best we all learn from that.

                  • Slap Shot

                    One can only imagine the constant mortification experienced by your parents (or so I am told).

                  • Rosemary

                    You are filth, now fuck off.

                    [lprent: No point in that comment. Read the policy about our views on pointless abuse. Simple assertions don’t constitute a point.. ]

                    • Rosemary

                      So are you saying that what the filthy hateful Odgers says here isn’t pointless abuse:

                      “Your mother downed twenty in an afternoon while carrying you to term. Best we all learn from that.”

                      [You have a point. But equally the moderators will react to shutdown a thread that is degenerating into mindless abuse… and it’s usually the last person in the queue who cops the warning. A polite one in this instance. RL]

        • mickysavage

          This particular issue (ACC) has attracted more comments by Cactus and Slater than any issue I can think of.  Sensitive are they?

          • Cactus Kate

            And there you go. We don’t comment, get accused of being this and that and 200 comments here of abuse later you all wear yourselves out. We do comment and we get that old chestnut.

            • mickysavage

              Well you have to admit that you guys are the subject to all sorts of negative comments here most days.  But on this particular issue there is this really heightened sensitivity?

              What gives?

              I guess being responsible for the destruction of two cabinet ministers’ careers could be sufficient reason. 

            • felix

              Nah, you get accused of being “this and that” when you stink up the place. Most of the time you hardly warrant a mention.

              micky has touched a nerve though, you two have been jumping in whenever this issue comes up and it’s always to deflect and divert.

              It’s a bit bloody obvious frankly.

              • Cactus Kate

                As is the opposition every time. Whaleoil is a frequent topic of many posts and comments on The Standard ( If he went on holiday for a month then would look much like

                [lprent: Wasting my time again? We do about 6 posts per day on average because of the damn weekends. Posts mentioning blubber aka cameron are infrequent.


                Even an illiterate like yourself should be able to hit a tag link. Unlike Brownlee I don’t think he has rated a category yet. ]

                • felix

                  Only if he took his sockpuppets with him.

                • IrishBill

                  To be fair, Cameron has been very helpful in the PoAL dispute. In fact so much of what he touches turns to shit for the right so often, I think I’d miss him if he left the webs.

                  • David H

                    Well he is becoming the latest foot in the mouth star. If he could ever lift a foot that high..

                • Cactus Kate

                  Now go through the comments and search likewise.

                • Tom Gould

                  @ Cactus, hasn’t blubber boy been on holiday for years now, since his insurer cut him off and he went on the benefit … which he used to brag about?

              • Whaleoil

                Heh, and if we say nothing then some commenter usually say…Slater is still silent on….whatever smear they want to leave out there.

                Damned both ways.

                • felix

                  There’s a third way. You could try telling the truth now and then.

                • IrishBill

                  I think you overestimate your importance, Cameron. If you weren’t such a liability to the right I don’t think we’d give you any airtime at all.

                • lprent

                  Yessss… I can see you have a strong grasp of the tactics. It is your speciality being a complete arsehole devoid of either intelligence or understanding …

                  I am bit constrained here. My colleagues here tend to disapprove of my more personal posts using the tactics you love.

                  • infused

                    Your double standards are so subtle lprent.

                    No personal attacks? Yet you lay personal attacks all the time.

                    • lprent

                      Sure – I am known for a low tolerance for fools and I usually spare little effort in being civil about it. Civility to the socially stupid in my opinion is a false kindness that just encourages the fool to repeat the stupidity.

                      But if you look at the comments I do you’ll always find there is a point expressed forcefully. The actual standard in the policy is that there will be robust debate but no pointless abuse.

                      For abuse to be acceptable on this site there has to be a point behind it, and it can’t just be an assertion that appears to be made up. Hawk asserted one which wasn’t clearly wasn’t correct. Most people writing comments know the bound and act accordingly

                      Of course in my other role as a moderator it is different. For me that is a required task and part of the task is to encourage people not to require me to waste my time. Otherwise I’d get overwhelmed with the amount of time I have to spend on moderating and it’d cut into work and recreation time.

                      So I actively discourage people from repeating their mistakes by being pretty damn nasty. It works pretty well and surprise surprise, it really doesn’t diminish the audience despite all of the predictions to the contrary. Having a malevolent sysop lurking around prepared to be a total arsehole when required actually encourages many more people to comment. The old security cornumbrum appears again.

                    • infused

                      I think that’s a pretty shit response to justify yourself. But do go on. I don’t actually care, just point this out. It is becoming more frequent.

        • David H

          The prickly one protecting the slimey one HAHAHAHA

  2. So let me get this straight…According to you and various commenters here over the past few days I have leaked Story A (Pullar’s terrible injustices at the hands of the evil ACC) to Phil Kitchin….

    and Story B (The flip side of Pullar’s story, that of a blackmailing, grasping claimant) to David Fisher at the Herald on Sunday…

    to do what?….Make Michelle Boag looks bad…or is it good, or perhaps just to get Nick Smith…oh I’m confused…

    Now it looks like I have leaked another story (let’s call it Story C) to NBR about Bronwyn Pullar miraculously recovering from having a tonne of kiwifruit on a pallet dropped on her foot.

    I think Cactus is right and Russell is certainly going to have to explore this fully, as is Mediawatch…again…

    Crack me up you guys have made my night.

    [lprent: As I pointed out to your erstwhile partner above, Zet seems to be inclined towards a Collins leak. You’re not going to suggest that the site has a mind are you? Read the policy about how I feel about dumbarses who think that. You really need to tighten up who you’re referring to. Generalized stuff against the site involves wasting my time… Bad idea.. ]

    • IrishBill 2.1

      It looks to me like you either lied to the people emailing you in 2008 or you lied here. Frankly I don’t care what dirty little trick you get up to (although your single handed discrediting of the PoAL anti-union campaign has been greatly appreciated).

      I would say, however, that despite your blustering, and the blustering of your girlfriend, Zet does seem to have caught you saying two distinctly different things. Which indicates you have lied in 2008 or now and have been stupid enough to get caught doing so publicly.

      • Whaleoil 2.1.1

        Oh rubbish…I was accused of shopping the Pullar story to Kitchin…I said I haven’t spoken to him about that…I may have been sloppy in explaining that..but it is true.

        The last time I spoke to Phil Kitchin would have been back then, certainly not since…but since you guys raised the issue that was when your own team shamelessly tried to set me up by lying about Damien o’Connor, throwing him under the bus to get at me…So glad you raised it again.

        If I recall correctly even Russell Brown was aghast that someone on your own team would do that. Oh yes there it is right there on the page Zet linked.

        “It was a pretty dumb stunt, if only because it could easily have gone badly wrong.”

        Still very funny guys…to think you have spent hours searching Google for statements about me and Phil Kitchin just warms the cockles of my heart.

        • Harry

          You said ” I have spoken to Phil kitchin”. You weren’t accused of it, you were claiming it yourself. It’s there in black and white. What kind of a deluded moron are you?

        • mickysavage

          Well Cameron did you shop the Boag email to Fisher?

          Simple yes or no would be good. 

          • Whaleoil

            Why would I shop emails from Boag to anyone in the media? If I had them then I would bloody run them myself.

            I certainly wouldn’t wait for a Sunday paper to grind thru the motions.

            Hell, you all think I did it anyway so why wouldn’t I just take the credit for doing it in the first place?

        • Jackal

          There is something seriously wrong with you having anything to do with a story about thousands of sensitive ACC claims being leaked Slater… and now you’re waffling about nothing as an explanation.

          You say you were “sloppy in explaining” and that you “never spoke to Phil Kitchin”. However there can be no other interpretation to what you said. Not ever means never… to think otherwise is an absurdity.

          And what about your defamation of a completely innocent person… let’s see some accountability that you’ve previously advocated for and justification for those lies?

          There is nothing funny about it. The problem is that your commentary is now so debunked that only the equally insane believes anything you write on face value. Your repeated lies Slater do a diservice to the New Zealand blogosphere.

          • Whaleoil

            So says the Plumber.

            • Cactus Kate

              He’s not a plumber who lives in his car anymore, his internet schizophrenia means he now plays another mysterious character, probably Garry Parsloe’s pageboy.

              • burt

                Hey Gary Parsloe still has a job – so he’s doing better than the people he represents…. Dooh!

              • You guys answer the effing question.  Did Slater shop the Boag email to Fisher?  Your continued avoidance of the question suggests there is only one possible answer.

            • Jackal

              That’s right, scurry of into your lies cowards! God forbid you actually own up to being wrong… how would your egos deal with it? Poor RWNJ’s, I’m starting to feel sorry for you again.

        • David H

          Open mouth
          insert both feet
          engage brain.

          Hmmmm sounds about right for the latest liability for the NATS.. Whaleblubber.

    • Lanthanide 2.2

      Glad to see the commenting problems have been worked out and you can comment here, Whale. And yes, I’m being genuinely sincere when I say that, too.

    • McFlock 2.3

      In one link you claimed to have spoken to someone. In another link you subsequently claimed to have never spoken with the same person. Two mutually exclusive statements.
      Personally, I don’t give too much of a damn about nat infighting (just as long as everyone involved inflicts serious damage on their opponents’ credibility and political prospects). But I am a little curious as to which of the mutually exclusive statements was an outright lie, and which was in happy coincidence with fact. 
      No big deal. 

    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 2.4

      lprent: look up “estwhile”. It doesn’t mean what you think it means. I only mention this because your go-to form of abuse seems to be to accuse other people of being stupid.

      • Pascal's bookie 2.4.1

        I’m guessing it was a dig at the dynamic duo’s long running, but now sadly defunct co-blogging adventure. It filled a much needed hole in the blogosphere during its existence.

        I think it lasted something less than twenty posts, but I could be wrong about that.

        • felix

          Where did they do that?

          • Pascal's bookie

            I think it was when “Whaleoil” became “Gotcha”.

            launched with a whispery hiss and roar, then some staring at shoes and a mutual agreement that perhaps this wasn’t a particularly good idea.

            Not sure though, second hand info, like I care.

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

          Oh. In that case, don’t I look silly.

      • lprent 2.4.2

        Huh? It refers to their past association. In this case to the startup of the Gotcha site where Whale and Cactus were going blog together on the same site. Lasted a few weeks before the inevitable breakup happened.

        Yep. Checked a dictionary with the correct spelling and it means exactly what I intended to say.

        What did you think that I meant? Perhaps you should review your own knowledge of the word.

        • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell

          Too late. I beat you to it by an hour.

          I was wrong. Sorry.

          • lprent

            No problem. I picked it up while moderating so I don’t particularly ‘see’ context in that mode. In that mode I’m actually reading comments backwards in time and doing the frogs eye trick. There are particular things that I scan for and I don’t really engage the brain until I ‘see’ something of interest. Then I may look at context.

            So in this case I walked over your later comment as of little ‘interest’ and then hit one referring to me. Since it was addressed to me and not a reply, I didn’t look at context – just answered it.

            Guess you missed that enormously influential period when Whale and Cactus were demonstrating why there is a dearth of multi-author right wing blogs around. Too many bloated ego’s in too small an area. Funny thing is that we don’t see that problem here despite the strong personalities and ego’s. We just cooperate and do what is required in our various areas. You could almost write a whole politics paper on the implications 😈

  3. Pascal's bookie 3

    “I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.”

    Maybe there is some arcane translation of ‘not ever’ in the law that renders it specific to a point in time or context.

    That would be pretty daft though, but if it is the case, then I for one think we should abandon that practice in favour of plain english.

    Because as it is, a plain english reading of the phrase ‘not ever’, would see it as meaning that the speaker had never, not once, not, well, ‘ever’ done the thing in question.

    I’d think that people would use it to rhetorically strengthen the claim that they had not done the thing in the particular case under discussion. They are saying not only did I not do it here, in this specific case, I’ve not done it ever in the general case. As it were

    If it turns out they have in fact done it on some previous occasion, then yep, that makes them a liar about the general case.

    Pointing that lie out doesn’t mean you are saying they did it in the specific case.

  4. felix 4

    The Slater child and his drunk old lady friend seem keen to discuss anything but the post.

    lolz. Not even a good liar either.

    • Whaleoil 4.1

      Fill yer boots…it is yet another post talking about me for some strange reason…clearly you guys have got a thaang going there.

      • Blighty 4.1.1

        You get mentioned sometimes. Not because you’re the goose that lays the golden eggs, as you think Slater. It’s because you’re the goose that shits all over his masters – eg PoAL – and it’s great to watch.

    • Cactus Kate 4.2

      I wish I had some of the whacky weed you take cat man. What’s actually to discuss here?

      • vto 4.2.1

        That’s right, what is to discuss? Lying bastards with no brains? I can go over to sewertown for that.

      • felix 4.2.2

        Whether or not the Slater child is a lying sack of shit, mainly.

    • Cactus Kate 4.3

      Copy of your birth certificate old tomcat so we can judge that for ourselves, given Lynn’s comments about machines, I suspect we are commenting to one now and you are making up your youth, among other things.

      Lolz went out with Vanilla Ice.

      • felix 4.3.1

        Huh? I don’t think I’ve mentioned my youth lately except in terms of my fond memories.

        Have another drink and try again, dear.

        ps yes, I am a machine.

        • Cactus Kate

          You are also commenting as Harry or perhaps you shared the same mother hence your anger at women who drink? You need to get over it.

          • felix

            Sorry gran, but I only comment as felix. You’re having a bit of a spin out there, thinking everyone’s out to get you, thinking people are machines, imagining that people are saying things they’re not.

            Maybe you should think about having a wee break from the high life, eh?

            And I assure you all my favourite women drink, as do I. We just know how to hold onto our shit.

            And thank you for the compliment Lynn, that’s very kind 😀

            • Cactus Kate

              Yes I will create a fake animal name, fake internet identity and pretend I’m say an 18 year old leftie as well so I can abuse other people who can be identified on Blogs.

              “we just know how…” so you are a woman today then if read in that context?

              • felix

                Lol where have I said I’m a teenager? I’m probably older than you, silly goose.

                “so you are a woman today then if read in that context?”

                No, “we” refers to “my favourite women” and “I”. You’ve failed to understand the straightforward use of your first language. It’s ok, it happens to all of us now and then.

                • Cactus Kate

                  So Felix if you are probably older than me, we can take it you probably drink more than me as well and are definitely telling lies,
                  I mean really the quality of commenting has dropped here. You have the benefit of a faux persona and can’t even make up the details to your own advantage.

                  • felix

                    You’re going to feel a bit silly reading these comments in the morning Kate.

                    • Cactus Kate

                      Why? I voted for a party that polled 1.2%. I couldn’t give a stuff about commenting on any blog.

              • Jackal

                Have another drink Catcus… perhaps then you can come up with some proper insults.

                • Cactus Kate

                  Another faceless nameless child in need of $1 a day sponsorship.

                  • Kate can you answer the question?

                    Did Slater shop the Boag email to Fisher?  The continued avoidance of the question suggests there is only one possible answer. 

                    • Cactus Kate

                      Of course I can’t answer it as I am not David Fisher.
                      I would add though if Slater had anything that good, i would expect that he would have stuck it on his own blog first and not given it to anyone else.

                    • Well can you ask Cameron to reply?  You know the story Kate, your antennae goes wild when people continuously avoid the question and talk about something else.  It makes you think that they are not being up front.  

                      So can you ask Cameron if he shopped the email to Fisher?  My repeated asking of this question will cause many to think that this may be the case.  A simple no would be good if Cameron wishes to reply in this way.

                  • Jackal

                    Wow! Sixteen comments so far and not one based in reality. Tell me Catcus, why have you come to the defence of the lying bastard Slater… are you implicated in the scandal as well perhaps?

        • lprent

          Unlikely you’re a machine. I couldn’t write such a program, and I don’t know of anyone who could..

          I’d have to rate that as bullshit….. 😈

  5. vto 5


    She’s all go ..

    • Cactus Kate 5.1

      And you love it. Slater and Cactus versus 20 trolls. Not fair odds really, where are your reinforcements?

      • felix 5.1.1

        How are you counting 20? Seeing double, are we?

        Anyway, I thought we were all the same person? Must be hard work keeping up with all your delusions.

        • burt


        • Cactus Kate

          Everyone knows this site has core anonymous regulars and then add ons. I shall name them
          Harry, VTO, Burt, Felix, Irish Bill, jackal, Lanthanide, mcFlock, pascals bookie, blights, Eddie, bunji, james henderson, Anthony robbins, rob, ianmac, ghost who walks, colonial viper. I would include Mickey and Lynn but credit to them, we actually know who they are. That’s 20 who will all consistent argue with you here when you may say even the slightest thing they disagree with.

          • vto

            Ok, I will no longer argue with you if you say something that I disagree with.

            Not that I have ever done that before, so why have you named me? And in capitals. Hope you’re not fantasising.

          • Jackal

            Some of those you’ve named as anonymous aren’t and most of the aliases you’ve mentioned haven’t commented on this post. Don’t try to discredit The Standard just because you lack information, can’t count and won’t argue the topic up for discussion.

            • Cactus Kate

              I cant discredit a machine,

              • Jackal

                Your jargon can’t discredit The Standard or it’s regular commentators… nice to see you accept the weakness of argument then Catcus.

            • Whaleoil

              Clearly the oxygen in the car is getting a little thin Jackal, might I suggest you wind down the window to clear the condensation and get some fresh oxygen in.

              Everyone knows that you can’t discredit a machine and the collection of scripts and programs running on the multiple threaded processes across multiple sites to enhance the serving speed of “the machine”.

              • Jackal

                Looks like the blood is rushing to your head in an attempt to suppress the truth leaking out to protect mistress Collins and you completely missed the point Slater.

                Besides, the internet and websites are not specifically “machines”… they are programs. A machine has a physical working structure such as a computer or a car. These can most definitely be discredited.

                Catcus must be pretty fucked up to think commentators on The Standard are “machines” ie programs. Good god man are you guys insane or what?

                As an aside, could you tell me why all the traces I put on your IP address end up in Mt Eden jail Slater?

                • lprent

                  They all do for auckland city. It is the centre of the area covered by the ‘district’. NZ doesn’t provide good geographical information unless you look at DSLAM’s at exchange level.

                  • Jackal

                    Thanks for that 1prent. I’m still wondering why they think I’m a plumber from Ruakaka when even a rudimentary trace would show my IP isn’t from that district.

                    • lprent

                      Whale’s ego tends to outweigh his actual technical ability by a few orders of magnitude. It shows whenever he uses his friends technical means.

                      But most likely in your case he swallowed someone’s email bullshit whole. As you can see on the second link in the post he tends to be a complete sucker for a tall story told well. There have been quite a few other complete cockups over the years that have been forwarded to us that we haven’t pursued because there wasn’t enough backing or where we weren’t sure that the hatred wasn’t overwhelming the judgement.

                      This one just has some actual links.

              • lprent

                You did have a technical background once. Lost to idling about?

          • felix

            Seriously Kate, take a nap. I don’t particularly like you but that doesn’t mean I want to see you make a fool of yourself. We’ve both had a bit of fun trading insults but it’s getting a bit silly now.

            Come back after a sleep and we’ll have a proper talk about what Slater knew, when he knew it, where he heard it, and who he passed it on to.

          • lprent

            I have published the list of top commentators and posters often enough.

            You missed BLiP and a few other of the regular commentators over the years* Who is ‘Harry’ and ‘blights’ – different blog? Antony/r0b are the same person and the former is his actual name.

            You’re going to seriously piss burt off. 😈

            None of them are exactly anonymous to anyone who reads the blog. Their personalities lurge though just as much as yours does. They certainly argue with each other a lot. None of them has contributed more than 0.5% of the comments and that is only because of CV’s rather extreme 14,180 comments out of our 391,499 comments

            Your point is?

            You should really focus on something that you aren’t quite such a newbie at…

            • Cactus Kate

              Of course they are anonymous to the public, of which I am one because I don’t know the secret handshakes that go on here. Happy to stay a newbie on that.

              • lprent

                Most are “anonymous” to me as well. Unlike you I see their e-mails – many of which are invalid, and their IP’s which to me are pretty solid about who people aren’t. Even the people who use TOR or one of the VPN exit points are as identifiable as hell – mostly because they use such known gateways (less than 3% of our comment traffic comes from overseas IP ranges, and half of those are TOR or VON gateway). If you wanted to be anonymous then there are some easier things to do for anonymity against a sysop. use Ihug or Vodafone is a good start. Their IP ranges move like greased lightning.

                But you ‘identified’ maybe 3% of the commentators and a few of the non commenting authors. Commentators are a fraction of the readers.

                But it is hard to conceal personality in comments. Irish can detect alomost anyone from writing style alone. I can detect most people. It is the most precise technique…. You literally cannot conceal your writing style without looking forced.

                But I suspect you don’t have the required patience or skills to apply the techniques. Few who are too full of themselves are….

              • Lanthanide

                I have no clue who any of the others are, except for those who have revealed their identities.

                I also don’t really track personal details. Seems most people live in the North Island, a few in the smaller cities but most in Auckland (no surprise).

          • burt


            I take exception to being lumped in with the lefty apologists. OK sure I’m a regular with an alias…. But I’m not a troll “for” the standard (*1).

            *1) The standard being in this context intended to refer to the collective of bloggers who fight hard out to get self serving Labour govt’s elected to implement policies that always fail.

            [lprent: 😈 That took longer than I thought.

            BTW: Some of the authors want a green government. At least two would probably prefer that there wasn’t a government at all and that we’d all just get along without one. ]

            • felix

              Too late burt, you’re well and truly lumped in now. Gooble gobble gooble gobble 😀

              • Akldnut

                Billiant felix, you got a camera into Act’s Caucus and Kates acceptance into the party.
                I note she had a bit to drink there too!

          • David H

            Damn I’m disappointed I didn’t make the top 20. There again I’m new here. Only been here a coupla years. and only banned once. Oh well something to work for, to be on someones top 20 list, wowweeeeee.

            [lprent: The system shows you as being well down in the top 100 in terms of comments. Hard to tell with the crap searches in safari on a iPad. Having been banned on a moderated site is pretty normal. How else do you learn the edges. I have been booted a few times over the years on various forums. ]

      • Rob 5.1.2

        Now thats a keeper…..

      • vto 5.1.3

        Reinforcements? I don’t think I have any. It’s just me luvvy.

        • felix

          Not sure why she thinks you’d need any either…

        • lprent

          Yep. vto is definitely a agin the government force of one. Any government.

          I thought he was Act prior to 2010 and ECan.

          • grumpy

            Stockholm Syndrome……

            • lprent

              Don’t think so. One of the characteristics of the blogs is that there is no confinement. Anyone can walk off to another blog at any time. Definitely not the conditions for Stockholm syndrome to arise.

              I think he is just swinging voter…

      • deuto 5.1.4

        Well there is probably a lot of us. In terms of animal names, particularly cats, if you are looking for one CK, Felix is gone as is Deuto.

        But lets not divert – how about you and WO actually answer MS’ very direct yes or no questions…………

        PS – as an aside, micky – looked up the correct quotation for my comment last night “The lady doth protest too much, methinks.” But don’t think either CK or WO rate as a ‘lady’ but interesting that both have deemed to honour us with their presence tonight.

  6. vto 6

    How do cactuses get close? Or are they solitary veges?

  7. fender 7

    Does seem to be a waste of bandwidth to point out something that surely everyone including the midwife could tell from his first cry. But it’s worth being reminded from time to time, that these foul people who support companies that seek a helping hand to spread their bs are not very straight-up and have a rotten core and radiate evilness.

    But at least the whaleslime runs in the gutter where it can be monitored for signs of vigilante behaviour or cult activity.

  8. tsmithfield 8

    The point I would make here is that it is very easy to accuse someone of lying when comparative phrases are taken completely out of their context.

    In the situation cited above, it is clear that the conversations referred to were completely different matters. Here is what I mean:

    Example 1:

    Person A: You told X about Y.

    Person B: I have never spoken to X.

    Example 2:

    Person A: You told X about Z.

    Person B: I have spoken to X.

    Comparing the two statements from person B apart from the context, it seems that person B has completely contradicted themselves. However, what is not considered is the implication contained in the statements when referring back to the context:

    “I have never spoken to X” in the first example includes the implication [about Y].

    “I have spoken to X” in the second example includes the implication [about X].

    In both the examples above, I am fairly certain that the individuals concerned wouldn’t be scanning back over several years when having these conversations. Rather, they would be addressing the point immediately before them, and would understand completely what they were talking about.

    In the article above accusing Whale Oil of lying, the statements have been stripped of their context in the article. However, by following the links back, it is clear that they are referring to conversations (or lack of conversations) that relate to completely different subject matter. When the context of the differing subject matter is taken into account, the apparent contradiction is fairly easily resolved.

    • TS to the rescue.

      What I would really like someone to do, preferably Slater is to answer this very simple question, did he somehow transmit the Boag email to the Herald’s Fisher?

      I am dying to know … 

      • Cactus Kate 8.2.1

        Oh for heavens sake refer to and stop yourself from dying.
        You aren’t going to accept the answer whatever it is anyway.

      • Whaleoil 8.2.2

        FFS the answer is No, I did not send the Boag email to Fisher.

        • mickysavage

          So who did?  Was it someone in Collins’ office?

          • Cactus Kate

            Is David Cunliffe currently plotting a coup? And if your answer is no is Grant Robertson? And if your answer is still no we will think of someone else to blame for the current coup rumours and ask you about that too.

            • mickysavage

              DC is not planning a coup.  

              So did someone in Collins’ office release the email?

              Good attempted diversion …

              • Cactus Kate

                Not planning? So Nanaia is doing the planning? Didn’t seem very happy on The nation Sunday.

                • You are such a crack up Kate.  You and Cameron are using all the classic diversion tactics.  Open up.  Let us know what is happening in the National Party.  Is Civil war erupting?  Is the Brat Pack gunning for Collins because she took out Smith?  Did she leak a private email from Boag for political advantage?

                  On the other hand if you do not want to answer that is fine.  I suspect us lefties will sit back and watch this unfold over the next couple of weeks.  Whatever happens I am sure that this Government will not be the same.  

                  And for the people of New Zealand this will be a good thing … 

                  • Cactus Kate

                    No the question has been answered and you are using classic tactics of relitigating what has already been answered.

                    I’ve got no interest or idea about what is going on in the National Party. Contrary to idiot reporters I am neither a member or have I ever voted for them. Despite almost certain electoral annihilation remember, I still voted for ACT.

                • lprent

                  Have you ever seen Nanaia happy? I never have ever… I think that she’d crack if those muscles were ever exercised. Politicians come in all types.

                  Just ask David Garrett – ex Act MP. How could you have voted for him?

                  • Cactus Kate

                    Nanaia looked pretty happy when she thought she was going to be Deputy leader.
                    Her comments about Labour were as guarded as Charles Chauvel’s.

                    Although Im sure she would be equally as unhappy to hear her used to justify bringing up Dabid Garrett again in comparison.

                    • lprent

                      Labour has learned over the decades to simply put up with me. The benefits tend to significantly outweigh the costs when calculated as a whole. I don’t really spend a lot of time worrying about politician’s fragile egos. They are pretty tough if they are pros, and if they are not then I help with their education. And I suspect that Nanaia would be somewhat outspoken if she got pissed off.

                      So you are ashamed of the party that brought Garratt to parliament? He has to be one of the weakest candidates I have seen. Shows that the party members were pretty useless at doing their job….

            • Whaleoil

              Didn’t Grant do well today gazzumping Jacinda in the welfare debate?

              Real leadership potential there, the only question is really, who will be his deputy? Will be David C?

            • lprent

              Coups happen in caucus. Why are you asking a Auckland regional for news about them? The party has bugger all to do with them – worse luck…

              But it is unlikely. The party membership can vote with their feet. Not a lot of point having a nice mid or late term caucus coup and then finding that the new leader can’t win the following election. That is the message that would be coup makers get when they ask.

          • Whaleoil

            Michelle Boag?

            • Cactus Kate

              Andrew Williams
              Expert in leaks.

            • mickysavage

              That is a good one.  So Michelle Boag opened herself up to ridicule and allegations that she participated in an attempt to extort by sending a private email to the Herald.

              Good one Cameron …

              Did you clear it with her before making this suggestion? 

              • Whaleoil

                An email to a minister can never be private because it is subject to OIA.

                So Michelle, the strategic genius she is writes an email which you describe as extortion to a minister in her capacity as the minister of the department she, as you said, tried to extort….and now is livid that it is public?

                The email is searchable under the OIA so can never be private.

                • Haha

                  If the email was sent to a private address and preceded by a telephone call to make sure it is private but the Minister then decides to treat it as public then it is subject to the OIA but not otherwise.

                  Do you mean that every email to Key and Joyce is subject to the OIA??  I hope you are right.  I can hardly wait …

                  And Boag’s email was definitely not an attempt to extort.  You should be more careful before making such allegations. 

                  • Whaleoil

                    Very precise information there Mickey…

                    You seem to be in the know, certainly more than me. Phone calls in advance…private email addresses…what are you Michelle’s bitch?

                    You state Boag’s email was “definitely” not an attempt to extort…how could you know that? Do you have a copy of it? Definitely is very precise language…and you are a lawyer, you know all about precision with words, don’t you Mickey?

                    You made the allegation…I simply confirmed what you said above. Anyway it matters not because it is a matter of public record that ACC thinks it was an attempt to blackmail or extort and so have laid a complaint with the Police.

                    • Ha Cameron

                      The last time I saw you so animated was  when I mentioned Simon Lusk.  Was he involved in writing any of your ACC and post Smith-resignation analysis?

                      Just a stab in the dark sort of question … 

                  • Whaleoil

                    Whoops…quick diversion there Mickey…seems you do have a copy of the email.

                    Who sent you the email?
                    Was it someone in ACC?
                    What does it actually say, since you have stated it “definitely” wasn’t an extortion email?
                    Why do you have a “private email”, as you have described it, sent to a minister, one that allegedly talks about an ACC claimant?
                    Is that a breach of privacy that you seem to have the email?

                    Many questions, how about some direct answers?

          • hawk

            You got your answer so shut the fuck up.

            You do sound like a stupid old cunt you really do.

            [lprent: That is at the edge of a pointless abuse since I haven’t seen an definite answer and you didn’t link or point one out. It’d pay you to read the notes in the policy about that style of comment. I tend to regard them as giving me fresh meat to educate about how to insult others in a less stupid and boring way. Then I give them time to contemplate the lesson. ]

            • hawk

              Lprent after i had posted it I realised the foolishness in my post.

              I did try to edit and delete I thought I had changed it however it dod not work.

              Point noted.

              [lprent: No problem – you just catch a warning and I’ll bear the dysfunction on the site in mind.

              Unfortunately I’ve been out of available time for my third role as sysop due to work pressures. So there are some repairs that haven’t been done on the site. One of them is the irritating botchup that the new owners of the re-editing plugin have been doing. ]

  9. tsmithfield 9

    Felix: “Nah.

    Doesn’t matter. If you include the implication [about Pullar], which was the subject of the post he was responding to, then what he said makes perfect sense, and doesn’t contradict his 2008 statement in the slightest.

    When people are responding to these sorts of things, it is often in a very conversational sort of manner, and responding to the immediate issue. Personally, I don’t expect people to scan through the last decade of their lives before posting. I can also read between the lines to know infer what may have been left out in the course of a reasonably rapid reply.

    • felix 9.1

      Yeah that’s true. If you pretend he didn’t say what he actually said, it’d mean something else.

      • tsmithfield 9.1.1

        Felix “Yeah that’s true. If you pretend he didn’t say what he actually said, it’d mean something else.”

        Are you acting thick or is it for real? As you should well know, context is vital for understanding what is being said.

        If Whale was responding to:

        “You have communicated with Kitchen on various occasions in the past”

        Then asserting that he had never previously communicated with that person would either be forgetfulness or lying.

        However, that wasn’t what he was responding to. It was about his communication with Kitchen about very specific subject matter. Whale’s response, in this context was clearly that he had never communicated with Kitchen about that matter. (implied)

        In my opinion, the accusation against Whale is based on a very cheap trick that doesn’t stand up to much scrutiny.

  10. tsmithfield 10

    You can follow the link as well as I can.

    • felix 10.1

      The link in the post? To Cameron’s comment? Yep I can, Cameron was replying to this comment from js, quoted in full:

      js 7
      23 March 2012 at 1:37 pm

      I heard it was part of an ongoing battle between Michelle Boag and Cameron Slater (National Party chairperson grievance politics) and he leaked the whole story to the Dominion Post. Phil Kitchin has mentioned before how he gets a lot of information from him.

      See that last sentence? “Phil Kitchin has mentioned before how he gets a lot of information from him.”

      To which Cameron replied (again, quoted in full):

      Whaleoil 7.3
      23 March 2012 at 2:54 pm

      I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.

      Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.

      So the context was not limited to this specific matter at all, it was very general about an ongoing relationship between Kitchen and Slater.

      Pretty much the exact opposite of what you said.

      • tsmithfield 10.1.1

        I disagree. You need to look at the wider context of the article and how Slater himself qualifies what he said. The article was: “Who leaked Pullar’s name?”

        So, to start with, the article was clearly about how Pullar’s name got out.

        Now look at Slater’s post:

        I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.

        Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.

        See how Slater has qualified his first sentence with the second. Clearly, due to the second sentence, the inference could be added to his first sentence [about Pullar].

        About the most you could accuse Slater of is being slightly lazy with his language. Accusing him of lying is absurd. Context is everything.

        • felix

          That’s not a qualification of what he said. It’s additional to what he said.

          In case you missed it, here ’tis again:

          js: “I heard it was part of an ongoing battle between Michelle Boag and Cameron Slater (National Party chairperson grievance politics) and he leaked the whole story to the Dominion Post. Phil Kitchin has mentioned before how he gets a lot of information from him.”

          Whaleoil: “I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any manner.
          Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.”

          To make your hypothesis work you have to ignore the question and the answer and focus entirely on something else instead. Very weak, smitty.

          • tsmithfield

            As I mentioned above, you need to also consider the wider context as to what JS might have been talking about. The wider context was the article: “Who leaked Pullar’s name?” If the article had been titled: “Conversations Slater has had with Kitchin”, you would have a much stronger point.

            Slater’s statement could have been constructed as follows:

            I have not ever spoken to Phil Kitchin, nor emailed him or corresponded in any
            manner: Kitchin has been running this story from information provided to him directly by Pullar, he has said that and now so has Pullar.

            Then the inference would have been very clear. So, in my opinion, it is only a slight inaccuracy in the way Slater has structured his post that gives you any ammunition for accusing him of lying. So far as I am concerned, the implication is very clear that he was limiting the scope of what he was saying. In the end, we both look at things the way we want to, so there probably isn’t a lot more I can say about this point.

            • Pascal's bookie

              You’re still ignoring the actual question that Slater was responding to. An allegation that he has worked with Kitchin, that he has a relationship with him. That is what his statement was in immediate response to.

              In that context, he was denying the relationship exists, that it has ‘ever’ existed, thus strengthening the idea that he could not have been working with him in this instance.

              Your new formulation does nothing to make his claim specific only to this case.

              It’s a trivial lie, of little consequence, but one that is revealing if you like. Slater could easily have just said that he isn’t working with Hitchins on this.

              Instead, he decided, at whatever level of consciousness, to deny that he had ever worked with him. That served a rhetorical purpose that suited him. That the truth was different to what he wrote, perhaps didn’t just bother him, in that case you could say that he was bullshitting about it rather than lying.

              But good lord you say some ridiculous shit, I have to say.

            • felix

              “you need to also consider the wider context as to what JS might have been talking about.

              I did. S/He is talking about an ongoing relationship between Slater and Kitchin, not restricted or limited to this particular case. You’re trying to narrow the context to exclude that fact.

              “Slater’s statement could have been constructed as follows”

              It could have been phrased as a lunch order, but it wasn’t. It was phrased as a black and white denial of the previous statement.

              You’re looking at things you think might have happened (but can’t show) and things you wish happened (but definitely didn’t) and completely ignoring what did happen (which we can all see for ourselves).

              Smitty, do you mind awfully if we discuss what was actually said instead?


              edit- Shorter felix: what P’s b said.

  11. Perhaps I’m misinterpreting what went on with the 2008 ‘stunt’ linked to in the post – but it seems to me that Cameron Slater had a very juicy story but didn’t post it ‘first’ on his blog, and didn’t intend to do so (limiting himself to ‘tid-bits’).

    Instead, (if I’m correct?) he contacted Phil Kitchin to try to get it first reported in a mainstream newspaper.

    If that is the case, then clearly having a juicy story does not necessarily mean that Mr Slater would first put it on his blog but that, in some circumstances at least, he would try to get it reported in the mainstream press first.

    Doesn’t it?

    So the defence, in the present case, that if he’d had the information he would have put it on his own blog first is not necessarily a ‘clincher’, in terms of clear denial that he ‘leaked’ the email. 

    But perhaps I’m missing something. 

    • hawk 11.1

      No think your thinking on the matter mkes perfect sense, however that does not allow the commentators in here to have a good old bun fight.

      So they should thank you for not posting your sensible comments until they had their fun.

    • Colonial Viper 11.2

      If that is the case, then clearly having a juicy story does not necessarily mean that Mr Slater would first put it on his blog but that, in some circumstances at least, he would try to get it reported in the mainstream press first.

      Slater knows that for an important story, the MSM would be able to reach a far wider audience far more credibly.

      Then post MSM release he would add his 2c worth of spin.

      Which therefore suggests that Slater acts as an unofficial (arms’ length) distribution channel to the MSM, as one of his primary roles for his right wing paymasters.

  12. Lying liar caught lying again
    Written By: Zetetic

    It’s good to see such a strong line in the sand here against bloggers telling lies. Perhaps this may set a benchmark for all bloggers to stick to facts and truths. That could also encompass a stand against mistruths and statements of “opinion” designed to dishonestly smear and discredit.

    Will you lead the way in a campaign for blog truthfullness? This post could be a permanent reminder.

  13. Fortran 13

    When I saw the heading I wondered what Len had been up to this time.

  14. KevinH 14

    Pullar was totally aggrieved with her negotiations with ACC and dragged in a number of political heavyweights, including Michele Boag, to help out with ther case. This would of got tongues wagging down on the beltway including media in the loop ie bloggers.
    This story was hushed up from the start but couldn’t be contained because of the alleged speculation from NZ First that made it so juicy that eventually it blew. Who sent the emails is irrelevant, the story was out and it was just a matter of time before it went public.

  15. Treetop 15

    I still want to know if Pullar gave permission for Boag to email Collins?

  16. randal 16

    I want to know if God is really on Slaters side?
    or is it just another fib.

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