Maurice Williamson super jerk

Written By: - Date published: 12:11 pm, September 3rd, 2015 - 111 comments
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Maurice Williamson

From Stuff:

National MP Maurice Williamson was “so offensive” in his recent presentation at SkyCity, attendees walked out of the awards dinner where pictures of nearly-naked women were displayed and sex acts were referred to.

The high-profile backbencher and former minister was the MC at the Esri Users dinner last Tuesday, where the theme of the conference was superheroes and supervillains.

Williamson attended dressed as “The Greatest American Hero”.

He displayed pictures of scantily-clad women, and ended his presentation with an audio clip that has offended many.

The fake advertisement features references to sex acts and could be seen as degrading to women.

 

Event organisers Eagle Technology had sent out an email that apologised for Williamson’s actions, and conveyed apologies on behalf of the Pakuranga MP.

But event-goers say that was not enough, and Williamson has been criticised for making degrading comments towards women at an event for an industry trying to attract more females.

Is the clip referred to this clip (warning NSFW or if you have any taste)?

A clearer case of misogyny is hard to imagine. Williamson is a disgrace and not deserving to be in Parliament.

111 comments on “Maurice Williamson super jerk ”

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  1. adam 1
    3 September 2015 at 12:32 pm

    I do wonder when women in this country will wake up to the fact that the Tory establishment hate them, and would like nothing better than to go back to a time, before feminism.

  2. James 2
    3 September 2015 at 12:32 pm

    Yep – It was in poor taste. He clearly misread the audience.

    Saying not deserving to be in parliament is a push (but Im guessing the left will be calling for him to be stood down or to quit soon) is a push too far.

    He should step up and apologise however.

    • dukeofurl 2.1
      3 September 2015 at 12:40 pm

      When you look back he is problem with a capital P

      Almost kicked out of caucus because of open opposition to then leader Bill English

      Kicked out of ministry because of interfering with lower level police who were handling a prosecution of a big donor to national party ( the guy was never a constituent of Williamson)

    • Tracey 2.2
      3 September 2015 at 1:32 pm

      did key lie when he said any mp in his govt would be held to higher standands than labour had?

      list the top 5 behaviours you consider would warrant sacking?

    • ankerawshark 2.3
      3 September 2015 at 1:51 pm

      James is the problem that he misread his audience and it was poor taste or that it was highly offensive to woman and not acceptable.

      My view is the latter.

      • James 2.3.1
        3 September 2015 at 2:43 pm

        Offensive to SOME women. and yes – wasnt acceptable or appropriate.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.3.1.1
          3 September 2015 at 4:55 pm

          No, offensive to all women.

          • James 2.3.1.1.1
            3 September 2015 at 6:30 pm

            Nope – wrong yet again.

            From NZHerald: Next you will be saying that the woman is wrong for not been offended.

            But not all attendees were offended by Williamson – Lauren Sperry said she enjoyed the speech, and was “quite shocked about the fuss everybody is making about it”.

            Sperry thought Williamson was both funny and entertaining, but acknowledged his comments were sexist.

            “The comments that he made were definitely sexist but, hey, we’re big girls now – I didn’t think there was anything extremely offensive, it was just a bit of fun and a bit of ribbing, really.”

            Those that were offended should “get a job in a knitting circle” and stop spoiling her fun.

            “I think that we’ve got to grow up and stop being so politically correct about everything – it was just a laugh and, yeah, get over it, basically.”

            No one in the group Sperry was with at the dinner was offended by Williamson, and she said it was “a good laugh and a good night”.

            • Draco T Bastard 2.3.1.1.1.1
              3 September 2015 at 6:36 pm

              Just because one person wasn’t offended doesn’t mean that it wasn’t offensive.

              I suspect this is like all those people that say that they were smacked as children and it didn’t hurt them only to go to the psychiatrist to find out that all those smacks had seriously damaged them.

              • Tracey …
                4 September 2015 at 10:24 am

                I thought that too. James provided evidence that one group wasn’t offended… sounds like a minority number to me, not a mandate for a green light at all

                • James …
                  4 September 2015 at 11:33 am

                  I didnt say it was a mandate for a green light – all I said that it wasnt offensive to ALL women – yet Draco was teling me I was wrong.

                  I gave evidence backing up my point – he didnt.

                  Personally, I can see how it was offensive to some (heck even a majority).

            • stever 2.3.1.1.1.2
              3 September 2015 at 7:54 pm

              Perhaps we need a Key-style response to this person. I.e. some passive-aggressive insinuations about her political leanings, the sort of friends she keeps, her job, her income.

              “She’s probably just some rich, right-wing sympathiser. She’s probably friends with Williamson, and probably works in PR or something like political lobbying.”

              Fact-free, but damaging…and leading to her message being de-valued and hence ignored.

            • Clemgeopin 2.3.1.1.1.3
              3 September 2015 at 9:14 pm

              She may not be offended, but I think that most of the country is.

              • Chris …
                4 September 2015 at 12:25 am

                I think most of the country mightn’t be, which is more the problem.

                • Tracey …
                  4 September 2015 at 10:26 am

                  I am not so sure. The Herald was trying very hard with its location and printing of one woman’s view that her group thought it was hilarious. Sexist but hilarious. When the Herald tries that hard you have to wonder if the numbers offended (as shown in the first article) made it feel it needed to get a message out quick-smart to make those in the public feeling offended by a MP’s behaviour think they are in a minority, not a majority.

            • mac1 2.3.1.1.1.4
              3 September 2015 at 10:16 pm

              Ms Sperry, talking about “being politically correct” is a disrespectful person’s way of saying that I do not care about good manners. Good manners is about respect for others.

              I understand that you do not understand that.

              Such understanding comes with maturity.

              Mature people understand respect for others. It is one of the defining attributes of a true adult, a ‘grown-up’.

              Otherwise, you stay being a ‘big girl.’

              • Tracey …
                4 September 2015 at 10:27 am

                I agree.

                Mature people can be funny without it being at half the population’s expense. Why not male porn stars, why not small penis jokes?

            • Potato 2.3.1.1.1.5
              4 September 2015 at 12:30 am

              “Those that were offended should “get a job in a knitting circle” and stop spoiling her fun.”

              In other words, Herald discovers that offensive person not offended by another offensive person.

        • Tracey 2.3.1.2
          4 September 2015 at 10:22 am

          and SOME men. How many SOMES are enough James?

          Tracey 2.2
          3 September 2015 at 1:32 pm
          did key lie when he said any mp in his govt would be held to higher standands than labour had?

          list the top 5 behaviours you consider would warrant sacking?

    • miravox 2.4
      3 September 2015 at 3:34 pm

      Misread the audience?!!?

      And which audience is the right audience for being a misogynist? Especially when you’re a MP.

    • Heather Grimwood 2.5
      3 September 2015 at 4:29 pm

      To James : Poor taste??!! should have read his audience??!! For goodness sake James, such filth ( and there s no other word for it) and disgusting inbuilt attitude to women ( and lack of consideration for that matter to those men who feel shame over promotion of such) has no place in our society, let alone in a M.P. I just find the infantile behaviour of Williamson unbelievable.
      I notice the P.M. using dismissive phrases about the incident.
      How about men with such puerile attitudes take a good look at themselves and undergo intensive counselling AFTER resigning their positions…..from one who has suffered throughout a long life from and supported others after their encountering such rubbish .

      • Karen 2.5.1
        3 September 2015 at 5:04 pm

        +1 Heather

      • James 2.5.2
        3 September 2015 at 6:31 pm

        What about the women who were there and were not offended?

        Should they be made to quit their jobs and take counselling as well?

        • ankerawshark 2.5.2.1
          3 September 2015 at 7:33 pm

          James @ 2.5.2. No those woman shouldn’t be made to quit there jobs as such.

          But there is a problem with their attitude. If MW jokes and pictures were shown in the workplace, they may say “Gee I wasn’t offended”……which enables sexiest entitled males like MW who clearly think its o.k………

          So I would suggest a feminist group, so they learn about why denigrating women is harmful.

          • Tracey 2.5.2.1.1
            4 September 2015 at 10:30 am

            I wonder why he didn’t choose white men to be the brunt of his comdeic turns that evening? Probably just coincidence.

          • James 2.5.2.1.2
            4 September 2015 at 11:39 am

            Oh so now you suggest Feminist training. Thats hilarious..

            If the people here are so appalled – why not picket the comedy clubs – You should hear what some of the local comedians say.

            Humour can (and often is) inappropriate. Dosnt make it not funny, and it does not mean that people support, or endorse the views of the joke.

            I saw Michelle A’Court live. (She is a leftie BTW) – She opened with a joke about her indulging in beastality. Does anyone believe that she actually does this? Im sure not. Is it appropriate for most audiences – again no. Was it actually funny in the context delivered – yes it was.

            • freedom 2.5.2.1.2.1
              4 September 2015 at 12:03 pm

              As you say James, comedy is about context. (and timing). I cannot imagine any context where an MP, not a paid entertainer, an actual Member of Parliament will be in a contextual circumstance suitable to present sexist rascist or similarly confrontational humour. Think what you want about their politics but their responsibility to the community is meant to uphold a standard of behaviour that is beholden to a code of conduct outside of the more relaxed and colourful forms of expression the rest of us enjoy.

              The restrictions put on their behaviour may be unfair, unwelcome, even unreasonable in a world flooded with fluid values.
              But like the perks they voraciously enjoy, it comes with the job.

        • Tracey 2.5.2.2
          4 September 2015 at 10:29 am

          so if a few women were not offended that makes offending some women BY AN ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE AND MEMBER OF GOVERNMENT, ok?

          • James 2.5.2.2.1
            4 September 2015 at 4:36 pm

            No – I never said it was OK.

            Just people on here saying that all men who found it funny should lose their jobs, or women who were not offended should attend feminist training is beyond stupid. Actually – I find that more offensive than his joke.

  3. maui 3
    3 September 2015 at 12:55 pm

    If there’s any video of that event, the public would rightly call for his head.

    Walking into a technology conference and presenting to highly educated people your blatant sexism means you shouldn’t really be representing anyone, apart from other like minded sexists.

  4. mac1 4
    3 September 2015 at 1:10 pm

    What is it with men who leave their brains behind when they don silly uniforms and costumes?

    This ranges from haka parties to paramilitary groups.

    I just know that as a member of the Labour Party I would never have contemplated such an exhibition, both through fear, knowing I would have to justify myself to my peers, both male and female, and through respect for them and for women in general. Let alone Mrs Mac1, and my daughters and friends!

    Mindboggling, but it does show that for some the veneer is pretty thin.

    • Tracey 4.1
      3 September 2015 at 1:33 pm

      it shows you how hard some people who hold public office must have to work to keep their true selves under wraps.

    • Chris 4.2
      3 September 2015 at 1:49 pm

      Don’t think it’s a matter of men leaving their brains behind. It’s a matter of men like Williamson not being too bright in the first place. Williamson, like so many other so-called MPs, is simply an idiot.

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 4.2.1
        3 September 2015 at 2:11 pm

        “so-called MPs”

        He’s an actual MP.

        • Chris 4.2.1.1
          3 September 2015 at 2:17 pm

          MPs are supposed to represent citizens. How many MPs do you really think do this?

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 4.2.1.1.1
            3 September 2015 at 2:47 pm

            This could get boring, so called Chris.

        • Gabby 4.2.1.2
          3 September 2015 at 2:49 pm

          He’s an actual turd in human form.

          • marty mars 4.2.1.3.1
            3 September 2015 at 3:52 pm

            BAM!!! Nice one joe – take that tgffkao

          • Macro 4.2.1.3.2
            3 September 2015 at 4:22 pm

            yeah as I say – it was just a bit of banter and as you can see – he was wearing a different hat – I mean wig – I’m completely relaxed about it – how about a bottle of my red plonk.

          • mac1 4.2.1.3.3
            3 September 2015 at 4:43 pm

            I hope that Key’s office, acting as the Prime Minister, was a little more directive in telling Williamson off than the usual imprecise John Key, who however was not acting as leader of the National Party since Williamson was not acting as an MP.

            According to this logic, Williamson could tell Key to naff off, since his actions as a private misogynistic idiot have nothing to do with his day job.

            But, if the PM’s office have had a word with Williamson, he must have been acting as an MP?

            • Chris 4.2.1.3.3.1
              3 September 2015 at 4:56 pm

              It was okay because Key had his idiot hat on when he spoke to Maurice.

              • mac1 …
                3 September 2015 at 5:02 pm

                He however didn’t speak to Maurice. Key lost the moral authority to tell people off long ago about how to act in public, the ponytail-pulling, pathetic, vainglorious puppet.

                He had his office do it.

                • Chris …
                  3 September 2015 at 5:05 pm

                  Yeah, that’s much better:

                  It was okay because Key had his idiot hat on when his office spoke to Maurice.

                  I like that, thanks.

            • Hanswurst 4.2.1.3.3.2
              3 September 2015 at 6:42 pm

              According to this logic, Williamson could tell Key to naff off, since his actions as a private misogynistic idiot have nothing to do with his day job.

              Yes, apparently Judith Collins yesterday mooned the Prime Minister and squirted lemon juice in his eyes, but he was relaxed about it because she was doing it in her capacity as a lawyer concerned about his government’s treatment of the Law Society. Asked about whether her actions were appropriate, he said, “Look, I obviously wasn’t in a position to see the entire incident and don’t have all the details. It’s clear that she did cross a line, but at the end of the day, New Zealanders know that parliament’s full of high jinks and banter.”

        • Tracey 4.2.1.4
          4 September 2015 at 10:32 am

          You are dead right, and that is why he needs to be held to a higher standard than this “turn” shows he is capable of. Hard to believe the man who wrote the Rainbow speech and read it in Parliament, wrote and delivered this.

  5. Chris 5
    3 September 2015 at 1:52 pm

    Is the linked video clip really the one that Williamson played as part of his presentation? That’s what I want to know.

  6. Ad 6
    3 September 2015 at 1:59 pm

    Maurice is immortal; his Pakuranga majority means he has the job as long as he wants it, National have demoted him so far that he has nothing to lose, and he has the same fleshy shout-down manners as Trump.
    While the moist media will rattle their jewellery at him for a moment, his popularity will go up as a result, not down.

    • Chris 6.1
      3 September 2015 at 4:36 pm

      So this latest behaviour is more likely to help his mayoralty chances should he decide to stand, rather than hinder them? Heck, maybe it will. Guess at least voters get to see more of what the guy’s capable of.

      • Ad 6.1.1
        3 September 2015 at 5:05 pm

        Nope – Boag is pushing for Theresa Gattung to stand, together with a full ticket.

        • dukeofurl 6.1.1.1
          3 September 2015 at 5:37 pm

          I heard her pick is Lester Levy.

          Gattung doesnt have any local body experience, so the council bureaucrats would eat her alive.

          • Ad 6.1.1.1.1
            3 September 2015 at 5:59 pm

            As Chair of Auckland and North Shore District Health Boards, major shareholder in Ascott, and Chair of Auckland Transport (among many other interests), in many ways he already has more power than the Mayor already. He has also been renewed on the Auckland Transport Board, which knocks him out.

            Theresa would be doing the eating.
            She may pass on the idea, but they are already planning total dominance of Auckland Council in 2016.

            • Northsider 6.1.1.1.1.1
              4 September 2015 at 7:52 am

              Sadly Labour’s Auckland MPs don’t “caucus” on leading the party organisation in Auckland Council. They have abdicated their responsibility to those Labour people who are fully engaged in City Vision. City Vision is a weakness for Labour as much as a strength.
              The current slight lead that the “left” has in Auckland is a result of C&R (National) weakness last time around.
              Auckland will be easy picking for the Nats unless the Labour MPs get their lazy fingers out of Wellington arses and provide leadership.

        • Tracey 6.1.1.2
          4 September 2015 at 10:37 am

          Citizens and Ratepayers morphed again about 7 years ago. I saw one of their new signs and thought “oi Oi, Michelle is a plannin and a strategisn”

          Interestingly, now named Communities and Residents, they claim on their website “Existing for over 77 years, Communities and Residents is a voluntary grass-roots association of members, and is the longest standing political grouping in Auckland local government. ”

          Which is a little bit misleading, cos they have legally, but not under this name.

          • Northsider 6.1.1.2.1
            4 September 2015 at 4:31 pm

            It is a lie.
            C&R is as much the National Party in Auckland local politics as the Pope is a Catholic.
            To characterise them as anything else is dissimulation.

            Then that is Boag for you.

    • dukeofurl 6.2
      3 September 2015 at 5:41 pm

      So hes going to run for re-election driving around in a clown car !

      Anyway national has a ‘way’ of getting rid of embarrassing time servers among its Mps.

      I hear Kim Jon Un heard about it and found it works too!

  7. Gangnam Style 7
    3 September 2015 at 2:04 pm

    Corin Dann was really annoying me on the telly last night saying things like ‘I don’t know what Williamson said’ well I call bullshit on that, of course he knows what was said, he just doesn’t have the guts to let the rest of us know. What is his job again? (I know hes John Keys favorite ‘political commentator’).

  8. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 8
    3 September 2015 at 3:00 pm

    I don’t know what he said, but I am offended. Most things offend me. I demand people stop offending me. This instant.

    [lprent: That is my line. I DEMAND you stop using it. I have ways of making people feel really offended. 😈 ]

    • weka 8.1
      3 September 2015 at 3:30 pm

      it wasn’t what he said, it was what he did. And the problem isn’t that he offended people, it’s the thing that caused the offense that is the problem.

  9. sabine 9
    3 September 2015 at 3:16 pm

    ahh,
    he was just horsing around

  10. Coaster 10
    3 September 2015 at 4:00 pm

    He wasnt an mp at the time, give him a break, we all have to let our hair down occasionaly.

    Its just like zak guilfords naked a bloody drunken romp in raro, he wasnt an alblack at the time so he didnt get into trouble with the nzrfu now did he.

    And did jesse ryder the blackcap get into trouple for drinking and fighting off the clock????.

    Williamson should be treated exactly like zak and jesse, after all can williamson seriosly bring the organisation he represents into disrepute?

    • Macro 10.1
      3 September 2015 at 4:28 pm

      Williamson should be treated exactly like zak and jesse, after all can williamson seriosly bring the organisation he represents into more disrepute?

      Fixed it for you 🙂

    • mac1 10.2
      3 September 2015 at 4:36 pm

      Sue Moroney is asking good questions.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11507342

      I especially liked this comment.

      Ms Moroney said she believed earlier controversy over Mr Key’s pulling of a waitress’s pony-tail would “make it very difficult for him to raise this issue with MPs like Maurice Williamson”.

      The main point of the article is Williamson announcing that he would be standing for the mayoralty of Auckland. I couldn’t help but notice the ressemblance of Williamson in his superhero wig with Boris Johnson, mayor of London, another buffoon.

      Maybe our Mr Williamson is modelling the laddish behaviour of Boris, as if that will be his trump card.

      • Gangnam Style 10.2.1
        3 September 2015 at 8:41 pm

        He wasn’t an MP at the time, but used his (MP) staff to help with the presentation, including images of porn stars in super hero outfits.

    • vaughan little 10.3
      4 September 2015 at 7:17 am

      tho there is the bit where zac had a moment of clarity..

  11. Byrnz 11
    3 September 2015 at 4:24 pm

    At Ad 3:12pm

    Anyone wanting a speaker at conferences who rolls in sparkles like him, please contact his office asap.

  12. greywarshark 12
    3 September 2015 at 4:47 pm

    Well that is so sleazy to present to mixed company. The men should have been offended that they would be considered to be so gross as to find that amusing for private or public listening.

    What lurks behind the clean, well clipped, well dressed males around business and government. Are there any genuine, likeable blokes there or just closet — choose your own word from the google selection. And let me say there were more on offer so perhaps this type is actually the norm, and the type of man I just described is a rare bird.
    However I do seem to know large numbers of men who have okay standards of behaviour.
    But then I don’t know too many politicians, business entrepreneurs or captains of industry

    Google from debauched – dissolute, dissipated, degenerate, corrupt, depraved, louche, rakish, shameless, sinful, unprincipled, immoral, impure, unchaste, lascivious, lecherous, libertine, lewd, lustful, libidinous, licentious, promiscuous, loose, wanton, abandoned, unrestrained, fast, decadent, profligate, intemperate, sybaritic, voluptuary, pleasure-seeking, indulgent, self-indulgent;

  13. One Anonymous Bloke 13
    3 September 2015 at 4:55 pm

    Eagle Technology hired some National Party trash to speak and got exactly what they paid for.

    • RedBaronCV 13.1
      3 September 2015 at 6:59 pm

      Hear hear

      Sucking up to the Nats can go horribly wrong at times can’t it. Now what do Eagle actually supply – makes you wonder how good the products are if this is a sample of their judgement

    • mickysavage 13.2
      3 September 2015 at 8:04 pm

      You think they paid money for him?

      • RedBaronCV 13.2.1
        3 September 2015 at 10:03 pm

        Maybe. I hadn’t really considered that interesting question ? If they had I think they’dd be asking for their money back under the consumer guarantees act – not fit for purpose really.

        I was more along the lines of wondering if their poor judgement in conference speakers flowed over into poor judgment over the rest of their business decisions/products.

      • Tracey 13.2.2
        4 September 2015 at 10:40 am

        He doesn’t strike me as a freebie kind of guy… although he once was a cable guy in his spare time.

  14. dv 14
    3 September 2015 at 7:11 pm

    Had a look at Eagles site, and searched for Williamson.
    There was a link to his address.
    But surprise surprise the was a error!!

    I thought Eagle was a tech co. How come there is an error.
    Oh they may not want anyone to see it!!!

  15. RedBaronCV 15
    3 September 2015 at 7:18 pm

    And if you go to the Eagle website and search by Williamson there is a link to a you tube video which looks like it has been ‘disappeared’

    • RedBaronCV 15.1
      3 September 2015 at 7:19 pm

      Hey DV didn’t mean to post over you but they are a pretty sorry tech mob if they can’t get youtube to run. Are they NAct donors?

      • dv 15.1.1
        3 September 2015 at 7:27 pm

        Great minds think alike Red

        I thought a smarter move would have been either to remover the link OR to say the video has been removed because the content was completely inappropriate

  16. millsy 16
    3 September 2015 at 8:25 pm

    Now that is a man who knows how to end his career in a spectacular fashion.

    • mickysavage 16.1
      3 September 2015 at 8:35 pm

      Rumours are that he wanted to run for the Auckland mayoralty. Maybe he overestimated the size of the misogynist vote …

      • Chris 16.1.1
        3 September 2015 at 10:32 pm

        The size of that vote can never be overestimated, unfortunately. The reason for this is precisely where Williamson’s behaviour has come from.

  17. Clemgeopin 17
    3 September 2015 at 9:05 pm

    Here is a quiz for you:

    (a) One National MP repeatedly pulls a woman’s pony tail in spite of her asking him to stop.

    (b) Another National MP, in a public meeting, makes disgusting, unbecoming, rude porno jokes about women and blow jobs.

    (c) One other National MP when drunk in a bar and refused a drink says, “Do you know who I am?”

    Question :
    Guess which one of the above three had to resign in disgrace and leave parliament?

  18. Robert Atack 18
    3 September 2015 at 9:14 pm

    We thought it was funny. Not appropriate to play it to strangers, but in the privacy of where most of us have done it, then all good by me.
    Beats having children any day. And is way less planet destroying than say Kiwi Saver.
    We are going to need to lighten up in these end days, or we could revert to witch burning, or stoning gays?
    Don’t forget you have no human rights, in the end it is might that will be right, its what all bacteria do.
    That was as good as it gets. You have all lived the best of what ‘mankind’ can deliver, it is down hill from now on. Ask someone in at the Budapest railway station.
    “You can come to Germany, if you make it over this burning trench, with most of your children, or someone elses (???) …… you can apply.
    sorry got serious (

    • greywarshark 18.1
      4 September 2015 at 6:45 pm

      How many drinks did you have before you tapped that out Robert Atack? Sounds like you need a tap on the head.

      [lprent: Huh? I know why I am cranky tonight. Leaving at 1530 and getting to the top of the Bombays at 1715 does that to you. But why is everyone trying to get a ban off me tonight? The only reason you only get a warning is because the statement is just ambiguous enough. But if I see too much of this then I will just start assuming the worst of motivations. ]

  19. Tanz 19
    4 September 2015 at 1:49 pm

    Looks like the rainbow vanished…what hypocrisy from the left…

  20. greywarshark 20
    4 September 2015 at 6:46 pm

    Tanz
    What are you hypo about?

  21. Tanz 21
    5 September 2015 at 11:44 am

    greywarshark – you tell me, lol.