Michael Moore: why blowing up the system and voting for Trump will feel good

Written By: - Date published: 8:24 am, October 28th, 2016 - 182 comments
Categories: capitalism, class war, manufacturing, poverty, socialism, us politics, workers' rights - Tags:

A recently released audio clip from celebrity left wing media icon Michael Moore‘s latest film Trumpland explains perfectly why “Trump’s Election Will Be The Biggest Fuck You Ever Recorded In Human History.” Hearing Moore speak, it seems to me that he “gets” Trump’s appeal and his support base far more than some members of the over-intellectualised liberal elite do.

Firstly Moore debunks the Clinton-worshippers elitist meme that Trump supporters are a “basket of deplorables” and “irredeemables.”

I know a lot of people in Michigan that are planning to vote for Trump and they don’t necessarily agree with him. They’re not racist or redneck, they’re actually pretty decent people and so after talking to a number of them I wanted to write this.

He notes that Trump stood up to auto company execs planning to close US factories down like no one else in the political establishment has.

Donald Trump came to the Detroit Economic Club and stood there in front of Ford Motor executives and said “if you close these factories as you’re planning to do in Detroit and build them in Mexico, I’m going to put a 35% tariff on those cars when you send them back and nobody’s going to buy them.” It was an amazing thing to see. No politician, Republican or Democrat, had ever said anything like that to these executives, and it was music to the ears of people in Michigan and Ohio and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin – the “Brexit” states

Moore goes on to recognise that the former middle class, the now unemployed and underemployed, the individuals and the families have been wrecked by the elite of the USA, have not necessarily lost everything: the country is still, in some ways, a democracy.

And on November 8, although they lost their jobs, although they’ve been foreclose on by the bank, next came the divorce and now the wife and kids are gone, the car’s been repoed, they haven’t had a real vacation in years, they’re stuck with the shitty Obamacare bronze plan where you can’t even get a fucking percocet, they’ve essentially lost everything they had except one thing – the one thing that doesn’t cost them a cent and is guaranteed to them by the American constitution: the right to vote.

Moore knows that Trump may not mean a thing he says, Trump may not end up changing a thing, and although Moore seems sure that these same people are going to eventually regret voting for Trump it is very predictable what they will still choose to do:

So on November 8 the dispossessed will walk into the voting booth, be handed a ballot, close the curtain, and take that lever or felt pen or touchscreen and put a big fucking X in the box by the name of the man who has threatened to upend and overturn the very system that has ruined their lives: Donald J Trump. 

Moore text from Zero Hedge here. Listen to the audio excerpt of Moore speak on YouTube here:

182 comments on “Michael Moore: why blowing up the system and voting for Trump will feel good”

  1. pat 1

    there will be many who do exactly that and for exactly those reasons……but they will be in the minority.

    • Colonial Viper 1.1

      Yes, we can easily dismiss these people, because…they’ve already been forgotten about by the people who matter – and they know it.

      • pat 1.1.1

        who are these “people that matter”?

        • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1

          the people whose voices aren’t instantly dismissed and mocked in the corridors of power and in the studios of the mainstream corporate media.

          • pat 1.1.1.1.1

            they will be dismissed as much as anyone else…..the impact has already been felt by the Republican Party and may yet turn the US legislature on its head and think it is safe to say their voices will have far reaching impact even if belatedly…..and thats in the face of the usual suspects disdain.

    • aerobubble 1.2

      yes, and lots of republicians will stay home, or think what a Trump victory will do to their party and the US… ..and so vote Clinton in and a democratic Congress. They after all are cinservative and do feel sime empathy for how elites have lockedup congress amd let the majority slide. Its sensible to let some fix the US, whichever wins the US is going for a infrastruture boom. Now do they want crazy gridlock or a clear road for whoever is President.

      And then you have, if crazy gets in, Congress having to spend its time talking crazy down. Sure i’d laugh my rocks off but Clinton going to win, Moore is just rightly underlning how the Clinton admin has a problem to address.

  2. left for dead 2

    CV, you forgot the space between < Bloc…..
    good luck though.

  3. Moore’s latest letter asking for readers to dump Trump and the rest of the Republican rabble:

    “Thank you for letting the American public see your true (orange) face. I’m glad you “grabbed” our attention and mobIlized the masses against you. The only thing sweeter than seeing the lot of you gone would be a 50-state sweep for Hillary.”

    http://michaelmoore.com/trump-is-not-the-only-grabber-who-must-go/

    • Colonial Viper 3.1

      Moore clearly prefers Clinton above Trump. But he also gets why Trump’s support base is huge and very motivated. And in the main, it’s not because they are “deplorables” and “irredeemables”.

      • Sort of. I think bigots are deplorable and mostly irredeemable. But there aren’t enough of them to win diddly.

        Most of Trumps support comes from people who always vote Republican. His problem is that while he’s got the support of those that would vote for any Republican candidate, no matter how awful, he has failed to convince a significant minority of Republican voters (those with some sense of decency) to join in. Add to that the obvious fact that rather than win over the women, blacks and latinos he needs for victory he has actively alienated them instead and we find Trump staring down the barrel of a loss of historic proportions.

        And, as Mike Moore hopes, that should also ankle tap the senate and house republicans too.

        Really, there is nothing new in Trump. The world has seen would be populists braying to the masses many times before. The really great thing about this campaign is that it turns out the American public aren’t as dumb as he’d like to think they are.

        • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1

          Trump’s support may come mostly from people who used to vote Republican, but this year they are voting for Trump, an independent ticket linked to the Republican Party.

          • Lanthanide 3.1.1.1.1

            Not true.

            Right now, 56 percent of Clinton voters say they are mainly for her compared with just 42 percent of the same voters who say they are voting against Trump.

            In the same survey, only 41 percent of Trump supporters say they are voting for him, while 54 percent say they are mostly voting against Clinton.

            That 56 percent of Clinton’s voters are affirmatively supporting her may not seem like a lot, but it’s about average for a presidential candidate.

            The most interesting thing about these numbers is how few of Trump’s supporters are his fans. No candidate since 1980 has had a lower percentage of voters say they plan to cast a vote for their candidate. That includes candidates whose campaigns were viewed as disastrous, including Jimmy Carter in 1980, Michael Dukakis in 1988 and Bob Dole in 1996. (The Republican party basically gave up on Dole in the final month of the 1996 election.)

            http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-voters-arent-just-voting-against-trump/

            Or in simpler terms, 54% of Trump’s voters, more than any other candidate in recent history, are voting for him purely because he has an R next to his name, not because they actually like him.

            • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1.1.1

              Do you believe that 538 will be right about Trump this time, after being wrong about him losing all previous times? 😛

              • Lanthanide

                538 predicted that Trump would win many of the individual state primaries that he did actually win, and predicted that he was on track for winning the nomination, after they set up their model and it clearly showed he was winning in the polls. Just like their model says he has only ~15% chance of winning the election now – he could still win according to their predictions.

                Anyway, you haven’t addressed the point, that more people are voting for Donald because he has an R next to his name, than because they actually like him or anything he is saying.

                Ie all your rubbish about most people voting for him because they want him to destroy the system.

                • Colonial Viper

                  You mean Michael Moore’s rubbish.

                  • McFlock

                    Moore just said “a lot”.

                    you added “in the main”. One is a relative quantity, the other is a proportion of his supporters. Two very different things.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Clinton is predicted to smash Trump by 100 or more electoral votes. So I’m sure this is all academic, right?

                    • McFlock

                      Either way, there’s no need to misrepresent what Moore said.

                • Blackcap

                  Make that a 20% chance now for Trump….

                  • Macro

                    17.8% chance.
                    Nate Silver on the subject just 4 hours ago:

                    But what do the polls say? The race probably is tightening — but perhaps not as much as the hype on the cable networks would imply.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      True situation IMO is Clinton +2, approx. Many of the polls with Clinton +7 or +10 are rigged.

                    • TheExtremist

                      “Many of the polls with Clinton +7 or +10 are rigged.”

                      He says without any evidence whatsoever

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Its my opinion, based on known Clinton campaign advice to pollsters on how they can rig their polls.

                    • TheExtremist

                      “Known Clinton campaign advice to pollsters on how they can rig their polls.”

                      Citation needed

                    • McFlock

                      [Citation needed]

                      lol
                      bets on whether he’s talking about some ambiguously-worded conspiracy to manipulate polls the dems release to the press when they expected the election to be close, rather than a nefarious plan to have every poll in the country “rigged”?

                    • Macro

                      True situation IMO is Clinton +2,

                      🙄
                      I take it you are referring to the Popular Vote here.
                      An analysis of the 22 nation wide polls has Clinton currently at 49.5% and Trump at 43.6%, a difference of around 6% where it has remained since the second debate.
                      Bear in mind that Trump is one of the most unpopular candidates ever in recent history and that the popular vote gap is way wider than that between Obama and Romney in the 2012 election. There is only a slim chance of an upset on Nov 8, less than 20% for Trump.
                      BTW, Oversampling of a target demographic is a perfectly legitimate mathematical technique and should in no way be confused with rigging.

                      For example, if a national survey is planned for a country that is only 20 percent urban the sample size in the urban area would be only 20 percent of the total sample size. Thus, sampling error for the urban estimates would be twice (square root of 0.8n/0.2n) as big as those for the rural estimates and about two and a quarter times larger than the national estimates (square root of n/0.2n). In such case, survey managers might decide it is necessary to over- sample the urban sector, effectively making separate urban and rural domains.

                      http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/meetings/egm/Sampling_1203/docs/no_2.pdf

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Macro: then what is the justification for having poll samples where registered Democrats out number registered Republicans by 1.3x or more (when the real life number is around 1.13x), and where registered Independents make up only around a quarter of the sample (when the real life number is in the high 30% to 40-ish % range).

                      That’s clear over-sampling of Democrat leaning voters and clear under-sampling of Republican leaning voters.

                • more people are voting for Donald because he has an R next to his name

                  Why do you conclude that Lanthanide? The extract from 538 you quoted said “The most interesting thing about these numbers is how few of Trump’s supporters are his fans.“.

                  That’s because most who intend to cast a vote for him are against Hillary Clinton mostly.

                  To my mind that supports Moore’s conjecture that many people will vote Trump in order to give the finger to what they perceive as an establishment that has left them high and dry in various ways.

                  Surely it’s less likely that ‘moderate’ republicans are willing to stomach Trump just because he’s on the ticket with an ‘R’ next to his name?

                  They will vote for him because giving a finger to Hillary amounts, in their eyes, to giving a finger to the system they see as corrupt, captured and not operating in their interests. What better way to give a finger to established interests than showing that you will even support Trump in order to make the point?

                  The economist Frank’s analysis of how showing that you are wiling to even go berserk (and against what may rationally be considered your interests) is one strategy to ensure that, in the future, you won’t have to push the nuclear button so often. You gain ‘respect’ by demonstrating ‘commitment’ to sacrifice something dear to you (e.g., a reasonable person putting up with being called a racist for voting for Trump).

                  Being known to get emotional and not put up with things is often a good strategy – even if it confers overall losses as a direct consequence of acting in that way (It’s beyond the paywall but the article is ‘Beyond Self-Interest’ by Robert Frank in the journal Challenge).

                  Maybe Trump voters (and some of his actual supporters) may well be motivated in this way – it would explain a lot, including the fact that they could disagree with his racist, etc. outpourings.

                  • Chris

                    That’s one of the outcomes of this bizarre situation: there’ll be a whole bunch of traditional republican voters voting for Clinton because they see Trump as wild and unpredictable and Clinton as mainstream establishment and therefore, ironically, more republican than Trump; and there’ll be a whole bunch of democrats voting for Trump because they’re pissed off Bernie didn’t get the nomination and they want to see the whole caboodle upended including the GNP.

                    On top of that there’ll also be a bunch of democrats voting for Trump because they see his unpredictability as a safer bet when it comes to potential war in the middle east and elsewhere compared to Clinton’s track-record. And to counter that there’ll be a bunch of others from both sides who’ve switched to Clinton because of recent revelations around Trump’s treatment of women.

                    If these tend to balance things a bit then Trump might still get in if the polls are defied by an apathetic voter turnout, brought about because of how bloody bizarre the whole thing’s become.

        • Garibaldi 3.1.1.2

          Welcome back CV. I’ve missed you(and was hoping you wouldn’t spit the dummy and leave permanently).

          • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.2.1

            Most kind, Garibaldi, and thank you for your comments.

          • Manuka AOR 3.1.1.2.2

            Yeah, like he said. Good to see you CV 🙂

          • Olwyn 3.1.1.2.3

            I had the same hope Garibaldi, and kept an eye out for CV’s name this morning. Good to see you back again CV.

            • dukeofurl 3.1.1.2.3.1

              Its like the good old days when Moscow would send out its message to the Socialist Unity Party in NZ, who would stick with it through thick and thin.

              • Colonial Viper

                And Michael Moore is getting these love telegrams from Moscow too?

                Come now, get serious. Moore knows the people on the ground in the poorest most deprived areas of Michigan. If you listen to what Moore has to say in the audio excerpt, I doubt that you’ll conclude the message came from Russia.

                • dukeofurl

                  As you say further down, Moore hates Trump ( and wants voters to support Clinton).
                  So that only leaves you following the ‘Moscow line’

                  In normal times , no way would you even consider Trump, with his racist and misogynist views – which Im sure you have notrack with any of that.
                  Trumps concern for workers is a fairly shallow puddle, they only other reason for your interest is his accommodation with Moscow and him wanting to crack the nato alliance.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    You say that like its a bad thing.The only reason that the Cold War didn’t end up destroying the Earth with nuclear weapons was “accommodation” between D.C. and Moscow.

                    • McFlock

                      Rational accommodation (and luck).

                      What happens when that “accommodation” goes south like so many of his business deals, and he tries to bully-boy putin?

                  • “In normal times , no way would you even consider Trump, with his racist and misogynist views – which Im sure you have notrack with any of that.”

                    much as some would hope and pray that that was true – the reality is it isn’t – I suspect that is one of the pressures moving him from the left – the living a lie bit.

                • CV did you watch the full 45 min movie?

            • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.2.3.2

              Cheers Olwyn, and I appreciate your level headed comments always.

            • saveNZ 3.1.1.2.3.3

              Yep nice to see you back CV.

          • Chooky 3.1.1.2.4

            +100 Garibaldi (btw I have been away too on the Daily Blog…and I have to say it wasn’t too difficult!…)

            …and Good Post CV!…Michael Moore is very articulate ! I am sure many will be listening to his subliminal subtext…and voting accordingly in the privacy of actually casting their votes…I noted the audience looked pretty serious and were listening intently

            • Pasupial 3.1.1.2.4.1

              Chooky
              Don’t you find that when commenting on TDB that; your comments just disappear into a moderation mystery land, and when they do finally appear contain typos that you wish you’d been able to edit? Maybe it’s just me (as I have been critical of Bradbury in past comments).

              I certainly think the posts there are often worth reading, but the commenting system is crap.

              • Chooky

                @ Pasupial….yes the commenting system is different and there are time lags ( for moderation ?)

                …but although frustrating at times this isn’t necessarily a bad thing because replies can be considered…so less scope for bullying and abuse and heated provocation

            • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.2.4.2

              Hi Chooky 🙂

        • Stuart Munro 3.1.1.3

          Forgive me, but I do think Trump is unusual – he was considered over the top even twenty five years ago when he got satirised as Clamp in Gremlins II.

      • Scott 3.1.2

        I don’t think anyone, not even Clinton and her team, thinks all trump supporters are deplorable or irredeemable… but there is a group of them that certainly are. You might say the same about some of Clinton’s supporters as well – the group on both sides that get into this stuff with all of the rationality of religious zealots.

        But Moore is right, go beyond that group and you see Trump getting support from the disillusioned. They want change, real change, as much for its own sake as for the expectation it will be an improvement. They probably think Trump is full of it, but he might not be, and they’d be willing to find out.

        • Colonial Viper 3.1.2.1

          In this model of the world, the more shrill and demonising the MSM are of Trump (and of BREXIT) the more these voters will conclude that they are on the right track.

          Or as Moore describes it

          They see that the elite who ruined their lives hate Trump. Corporate America hates Trump. Wall Street hates Trump. The career politicians hate Trump. The media hates Trump, after they loved him and created him, and now hate. Thank you media: the enemy of my enemy is who I’m voting for on November 8.

          • aerobubble 3.1.2.1.1

            And just what if. what if years of rigging the system,overtly and underhandedly, those election systems, along with automaton ic republicians, all make any Republician a siazeable home state advantage, and with democratic manufacturing states fedup vote Trump…

            In one fell swoop Republicians will vomit Trump and Democrats will win in 2020 in a landslide.

            But you do know it doesn’t matter who wins right.

  4. ianmac 4

    People do not really vote on the issues or policies. They vote on an emotional level. So if the dispossessed Middle Class feel angry enough they will vote for Trump. In spite of the crazy stuff Trump has done/said. I think that in Florida Trump has a lead over Clinton. Weird but then look at the Icelandic Pirate Party expecting to win on Saturday.

    • GregJ 4.1

      Clinton is leading in Florida by anywhere from 2 to 4 percent. Johnson is still polling between 3 to 5 percent so it may come down to where those people actually place their votes on polling day. I believe the early polling in Florida is seeing fewer registered Republicans voting earlier. Also there has been quite a large influx of Puerto Ricans in the last few years into Florida who tend to swing to the Democrats. Trump does need Florida to win though and it is looking an uphill struggle for him.

    • dukeofurl 4.2

      Pirates will be largest opposition party.

  5. mauī 5

    The film is being shown on TV One on Tuesday November 1 at 9.30pm.

  6. roy cartland 6

    So it’s the old ‘I’m going down and I’m taking you with me’ trope. I’d rather we both lose massively than risk you winning (again).

    Any insight on why Sanders or Stein never got through to these forgotten? (Surely not because they had some ugly policy or history – so does Trump.)

  7. “Moore knows that Trump may not mean a thing he says, Trump may not end up changing a thing, and although Moore seems sure that these same people are going to eventually regret voting for Trump it is very predictable what they will still choose to do”

    That sentence sums it up well. Desperate people cling to any life-raft they can – I don’t blame them for being desperate or for clinging to some belief that trump will do what he says when all evidence says the opposite – no, I blame trump and his voracious vocal supporters for taking advantage of others desperation for trumps own monetising goals. Once that reality is understood the whole travelling salvation show from trump makes more sense – it is evangelical and mirrors alot of the characteristics of that phenomena right down to ‘brother love’ imo.

  8. Ad 8

    Voting as therapy rarely ends well. Generally it ends in tears.

    Disrupting “the system” isn’t enough, and is usually too much.

    If Trump and the Republican Party had a transformative agenda, and were unified and swept Presidency, Senate, and Congress, we’d have ….

    …. oh wait we’d have the Bushes back.

    Pinning all your hopes on one person, no matter how much swagger and charisma they have, isn’t ever enough for the kind of disruption I suspect that you want.
    Having supporters isn’t enough. As we’ve seen all around the democratic world.

    Even, having supporters, and party unity rarely cuts it.

    You need: a good person, with party support, who understands the system, has coherent policies, can control the legislature, and is in there for many years.
    Helen Clark types. Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama types. Bob Hawke types. If you like it slightly authoritarian like Trump does, he should have played his game as well as Lee Kwan Yew. That’s how you change a whole country and a whole people for good. I don’t see Michael Moore getting any of this.

  9. dukeofurl 9

    So Trump talks the talk about jobs for US workers?

    http://www.newsweek.com/how-donald-trump-ditched-us-steel-workers-china-505717
    A Newsweek investigation has found that in at least two of Trump’s last three construction projects, Trump opted to purchase his steel and aluminum from Chinese manufacturers rather than United States corporations based in states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin.
    “Of Trump’s last three construction projects, the first to use Chinese steel was Trump International Hotel Las Vegas, which opened in 2008.
    Another recent Trump building that has used metal from China is Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago, which opened in 2009.

    So he talks about American jobs but does differently- as you would expect a billionaire realestate developer turned politician to just say these things. Much like the clothing range that bears his name- American jobs?
    Yes that too is from China

  10. mickysavage 10

    Ok so some very decent people may support Trump for their own laudable reasons. The guy is still an idiot and the biggest threat to world peace that we have. Still no reason for anyone to support him.

    • Colonial Viper 10.1

      The guy is still an idiot and the biggest threat to world peace that we have.

      I would tend to disagree. IMO unipolar American exceptionalism as expressed and practiced by the US foreign policy neocon set is the “biggest threat to world peace that we have.”

      This is the group of people who think that stationing NATO bases and heavy weapons right off the border with Russia is a good idea.

      This is the group of people who believe in illegal regime change, funding the destabilisation of sovereign governments, and providing arms and military training to Islamic extremists and jihadists in order to use them as proxy regime change tools.

      This is the group of people who think that unilateral withdrawal from the ABM treaty and unilateral abrogation of the terms of weapons grade plutonium agreement are a good idea.

      This is the group of people who think that demonising Russia, a long time nuclear partner, as an election campaign strategy is smart.

      This is the group of people who think that ramping up military tensions with Russia and China at every turn is productive.

      Donald Trump is not in with these people. That’s why the D.C. / military industrial establishment want him finished, and they want their hand picked proven pro-regime change player in instead.

    • dukeofurl 10.2

      Especially since his love for american workers isnt based on any previous actions.

      It seems to me his rhetoric comes from internal polls which show support from white working class males, so the speaking points are just empty words

      • Colonial Viper 10.2.1

        Now, is that your public position on the matter, or your Wall St funded big foreign corporation sponsored private position on the matter?

        • dukeofurl 10.2.1.1

          Wall St Funded?
          You do realise the speaking fees – which are much the same as any big wigs in US, and Clinton has spoken to many groups for the same price- would be at the bonus level of a single low -medium level trader ($250K).
          Im sure the monthly limo bill at Goldman Sachs would be much the same as Clintons speaking fee.

          Its laughable that the money would buy any influence- at that price .
          Her campaign could be spending up to the $1bill level.

          • Colonial Viper 10.2.1.1.1

            Its laughable that the money would buy any influence- at that price . Her campaign could be spending up to the $1bill level.

            I’ll be doing another post on how corporate money and foreign money bought access to the State Department, bought access to the Clintons, and bought big money contracts for major donors and “FOBs” (Friends of Bill).

            • McFlock 10.2.1.1.1.1

              Will you be pretending that the Clinton Foundation is the same as Hillary’s personal bank account?

              • Colonial Viper

                Bob Woodward agrees that the Clinton Foundation is an utterly corrupt enterprise and I tend to agree.

                • TheExtremist

                  Of course you do because it fits in with preconceptions

                • McFlock

                  Who does woodward agree with? You agree with him agreeing with you?

                  The organisations that rate charities disagree with both of you.
                  Clinton’s tax returns disagree with both of you.

                • Manuka AOR

                  Bob Woodward agrees that the Clinton Foundation is an utterly corrupt

                  Bob Woodward also believed that Iraq had ‘weapons of mass destruction’.

                  “During an appearance on Larry King Live, he was asked by a telephone caller, “Suppose we go to war and go into Iraq and there are no weapons of mass destruction”, Woodward responded “I think the chance of that happening is about zero. There’s just too much there.”” [Ref: FRONTLINE. “Interviews – Bob Woodward | News War | FRONTLINE | PBS”]

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Woodward

                • dukeofurl

                  “Bob Woodward agrees that the Clinton Foundation is an utterly corrupt enterprise and I tend to agree.”

                  hes an idiot
                  “Woodward has certainly shown in recent years that he doesn’t have his finger on the pulse on Democratic politics. Three years ago he claimed Hillary Clinton might replace Vice President Joe Biden on the Democratic ticket in 2012. (Then again he once predicted Dick Cheney would be the Republican nominee in 2008.) ”

                  “But it’s Woodward’s reporting during the Bush administration that best debunks the farcical the notion that he is a “liberal” ally. He did that both through his fawning coverage of the Bush White House, especially in the early years, and by becoming a major player in the scandal surrounding CIA operative Valerie Plame.”
                  http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/03/01/woodward-as-liberal-icon-not-exactly/192862

                  Woodward is just another Faux News Fuckwit. Regular with Hannity and the other shows which throw shit at the Clintons.
                  Thats fine, but please dont try to make some sort of saint Bob who actually knows stuff along the lines here of Hagar

                  Other stuff
                  http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/02/what-the-hell-happened-to-bob-woodward.html

                  In “All the President’s Men” he said he was a Republican.
                  http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104×1721205

            • TheExtremist 10.2.1.1.1.2

              Will you be sourcing your post with RT and other propaganda sources?

            • marty mars 10.2.1.1.1.3

              will you put ALL the facts out there including where claims have been disproved and shown to be deliberate personal hatred and/or disinformation dirty trick-like campaigning, and will you let people decide for themselves or will you slant everything to make clinton look bad

    • Colonial Viper 10.3

      The guy is still an idiot and the biggest threat to world peace that we have.

      I understand your contention that Trump is an idiot, but as for “biggest threat to world peace that we have” – that’s groundless hyperbole.

      I reckon you may not have considered the role of the US foreign policy neocons who see the world purely in a unipolar, American exceptionalism context.

      These are the same people who think that it is a good idea to conduct illegal programmes of regime change and sovereign government destabilisation throughout the world, while ramping up military tensions against China and Russia in both China and Russia’s own backyards, funding/training ultimately uncontrollable Islamic jihadists to use as proxy armies, unilaterally backing out of the ABM treaty and unilaterally abrogating the terms of the weapons grade plutonium disposal treaty, etc.

      NB that’s Hillary’s crowd, not Trump’s.

    • AmaKiwi 10.4

      For me, the point is people are grasping at extreme solutions because of their outrage about the dismal failure of neo-liberalism (“Everything is rigged.”) imposed by make believe democracy (“You don’t need referendums because if you elect me I’ll pretend to do something.”).

      An increasing percent of the population know neo-liberal pseudo democracy has destroyed their hopes and dreams at the price of enriching the corrupt elite. Extremists left and right are ready to rip the system apart.

      I wish I could say NZ Labour could fix it, but they can’t because substantive change requires a lot of oxen being gored. It requires a Yanis Vroufakis, Corbyn, Sanders, the Pirate party, the Italian Five Star party, and alike. By comparison, Cunliffe is a timid radical. But that is enough for the parliamentary Labour party to destroy his character (“Cunliffe is a liar”) and banish him to the back benches.

      Trump IS dangerous, but without responsible radicals people will vote for him.

    • Stuart Munro 10.5

      I’m not sure Putin isn’t a greater threat – does not lack ambition & tends to realise them militarily. That said, the US used to have a notion of ‘the right stuff’ for presidency (or space flight). Trump never had the right stuff – shouldn’t be in the running.

      • Colonial Viper 10.5.1

        what exactly do you think Putin is a threat to? Declining and unsustainable unipolar American exceptionalism and hegemony?

        • Stuart Munro 10.5.1.1

          While he certainly does threaten that, he is by no means an ambassador of humanism or civilisation. He raises the chances of a superpower confrontation, raises civilian casualties in his areas of operations, and tends to suppress democracy in places that interest him – Ukraine, Syria, Chechnya, Ingushetia, and of course, Russia.

          If you want a brutal and unapologetic military dictatorship, Putin is your man. His real gift to the middle east looks set to be the kind of proxy war that devastated places like Lebanon for decades. It would be an exaggeration to say he threatens peace because Syria and Iraq are not at peace – but he tends to escalate conflicts. This has served him well against the tiny former-soviet satellites, but whether it will continue to work, and whether it is desirable that it should work remains to be seen. Survivors of the 20th century Russian expansion are not keen for a replay.

          • Colonial Viper 10.5.1.1.1

            Where do you get this ridiculous tripe from? Firstly Putin has the popular support of 80% plus of the Russian voting public. That’ more than Obama, or May, or Merkel or John Key can get.

            Now remind me – who in the 1990s applied sanctions to Iraq which killed half a million Iraqi children – and then said on TV that it was worthwhile?

            Cluetip: the USA.

            Remind me – who backed a completely undemocratic and unconstitutional change of government in Kiev?

            Cluetip: the USA.

            Remind me – who is operating their military forces in and over Syria completely illegally and without permission of Syria’s sovereign government?

            Cluetip: the USA.

            Remind me – why did the former USSR occupy half of Europe in the mid 20th century?

            Cluetip: A major western European power decided to invade the USSR and kill approx 27M Soviet citizens.

          • Colonial Viper 10.5.1.1.2

            I think Putin is demonized by the west because he insists on maintaining the economic and political independence and sovereignty of Russia. No more, no less.

            As for mid 20th Century Russian (USSR) expansion: can you please remind me how it was that the USSR ended up in half of Europe?

            Did you forget that small matter of a major western European power brutally invading the USSR and killing approx 27M Soviet citizens?

            • Stuart Munro 10.5.1.1.2.2

              Though the West may be demonising Putin they are doing so on objective grounds. The Chechen genocide is enough to damn him on its own, and it is not on its own.

              How did Russia end up with half of Europe? They cut a deal with Hitler, with whom they were happy to make such deals.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact

              Then, when Hitler backstabbed them, the Allies made a pragmatic decision to lend Russia massive materiale support to prevent Germany consolidating its gains. When the German forces collapsed or were beaten the Russians advanced into the countries the Germans had taken, and in the end Germany itself.

              The pact included the division of Poland between Russia and Germany – so don’t make them out to be martyrs – the Russians started the war as dirty as Hitler.

              I won’t accuse you of forgetting this, because it seems more likely you have omitted it deliberately as an inconvenient truth that does not serve your intentionally deceptive narrative.

  11. Richard Rawshark 11

    IF I went on principles I would vote for neither. Why compromise when they are so jolly awful, I mean you are supposed to vote for something that represents what you believe, not the better of two complete no hopers.

    • weka 11.1

      Pragmatic voting can be a highly ethical act.

      “I mean you are supposed to vote for something that represents what you believe, not the better of two complete no hopers.”

      Says who?

    • Richard Rawshark 11.2

      NO Vote Trump I was a FOOOOOL.

      Trump will save the planet, it will be tremendous, absolutely brilliant.

  12. Karen 12

    Michael Moore does not support Trump. He loathes him. I was curious to see CV quoting from Moore so against my better instincts I read his post and found the usual misleading and selective material.

    Check out Moore’s twitter account to find out what Moore really thinks of Trump and why he is now an avid supporter of Clinton.
    You don’t need to join twitter to read them.

    Michael Moore ‏@MMFlint Oct 26
    Michael Moore Retweeted Roxanne Wright
    They’re only helping us by sending thousands of Trump voters to iTunes to watch my movie http://bit.ly/trumpland . Then the truth’ll hit ’em.Michael Moore added,

    Roxanne Wright @roxannelwright
    @MMFlint, sadly,Trump supporters are now sharing a 4 min portion of your video making it look like you support Trump 100%. Not a good thing.

    • Olwyn 12.1

      The post’s central claim is that Moore “gets Trump’s appeal and support base”, not that Moore supports Trump.

      • Bill 12.1.1

        What Moore says in in line with what Rebecca Solnit has been saying about the demonisation and simple caricature of the working class offered up by mainstream news outlets.

        Also reminds me of a piece I read in (I think) The Canary about the Brexit vote. Post vote survey apparently showed that people votes ‘out’ because of austerity and not because of immigration.

        But ‘working class stupid racists’ is apparently an easier line to run with anyway. 🙁

        • weka 12.1.1.1

          Huge pity CV didn’t write posts and comments like this for the past 6 months then, and instead has been flaming anti-liberal/anti-left antagonism all over the place (I note that he still can’t help but poke that particular bigotry into the mix even in this post).

          • left for dead 12.1.1.1.1

            I’ve just had a chance to look in on progress on this thought provoking post to find weka still has head and nose looking down, if not back. How about you take a brake (intended double meaning) so things can further settle down, ay

            • Robertina 12.1.1.1.1.1

              Michael Moore has been documenting and understanding working class alienation and betrayal his whole career.
              Trump’s just exploiting that same dynamic, and CV and Trump are both misrepresenting Moore’s critique. And CV does this in a highly disingenuous rather than ‘thought provoking’ manner.
              Check out Moore’s take on the ‘vile and disgusting candidate’ and how he’s misrepresented his film:

              http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/27/michael_moore_to_megyn_kelly_i_understand_trump_voters_are_angry_system_failed_trump_not_solution.html

              • Colonial Viper

                Trump’s just exploiting that same dynamic, and CV and Trump are both misrepresenting Moore’s critique. And CV does this in a highly disingenuous rather than ‘thought provoking’ manner.

                You forgot to detail out where I misrepresented Moore’s critique.

                Not only did I give people links to find out more about the Trumpland production themselves, but I made it clear in my post that Moore is confident that Trump supporters are going to regret supporting Trump.

                My point stands: Moore understands better than most people why so many good, decent folk in Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin are going to vote Trump.

      • Karen 12.1.2

        The title of the post and the general thrust suggests Moore is much more sympathetic to Trump than he actually is. I am a big fan of Moore and got irritated enough to respond. In future, I will go back to ignoring CV’s posts and comments, although I do accept he has plenty of fans on The Standard..

    • Colonial Viper 12.2

      Karen: if you want to accuse me of being misleading, perhaps you should avoid falling into the same trap yourself.

    • Enough is Enough 12.3

      And CV never said that Moore did support Trump…So your point is?

      • Colonial Viper 12.3.1

        I made it clear in the post that Moore thinks that all these Trump supporters are eventually going to regret voting for him. This is not an endorsement from Moore; it is an explanation.

        • marty mars 12.3.1.1

          yep and they will turn on trump and his flunkies when they realise they have been lied to, duped and treated like imbeciles – wouldn’t like to be wearing I love trumpie tee then.

          • Colonial Viper 12.3.1.1.1

            yep and they will turn on Clinton and her flunkies when they realise they have been lied to, duped and treated like imbeciles – wouldn’t like to be wearing I’m with her tee then.

            I believe my version will be just as true, if not more so 😛

            • marty mars 12.3.1.1.1.1

              not sure quote marks are needed there – I’m sure you’ll be long gone anyway – probably switched sides again by then, 😉 you’ll pointing the finger at trumpees saying,”they bad, I told you so.” – lol it will end up being sorta funny – if anyone is there to see it of course – but once again – not your problem eh

              • Colonial Viper

                If Clinton wins, which remains a possibility, I think the repercussions of her Presidency will give me two or three glorious, if ultimately unsatisfying, years of saying “I told you so” 😛

                • I’m sure that will be personally pleasurable for you in the comfort of your own home. Sadly when you proclaim outside there you’ll be saying I told you so to people who already know and have thought about it with consideration, and insight in frankly a lot more depth than yourself I’d say. That is one of your more obvious blindspots in this race to the president.

                • Chooky

                  lol…CV…re “I told you so”

                  yes it does place one in a bit of a dilemma as to who to hope wins

                  …Trump is sure to commit some heinous horrible pipeline environmental damage ( in which case I will retire from this site)

                  …Clinton is a hypocritical venal corrupt Democrat with no moral compass…and a loose canon on Foreign Policy (and could start WW3 in which case it will end all arguments here…which could be a plus)

                  • Colonial Viper

                    …Trump is sure to commit some heinous horrible pipeline environmental damage ( in which case I will retire from this site)

                    Meanwhile under the Obama administration, activist film makers arrested at the recent North Dakota tar sands pipeline shutdown have been charged with enough felony crimes to imprison them for up to 45 years.

                    This is plain and simple intimidation of independent environmental journalism by the US government, no ifs or buts.

        • dukeofurl 12.3.1.2

          So:
          ” Moore thinks that all these Trump supporters are eventually going to regret voting for him”

          That isint what you say in your headline:
          Michael Moore: why blowing up the system and voting for Trump will feel good

          Very neat journalistic trick: The headline says what YOU want to say, the disclaimer is hidden elsewhere

          • Chooky 12.3.1.2.1

            however they may regret voting for Hillary even more

            • marty mars 12.3.1.2.1.1

              are you michael moore – or how the hell would you know and why should anything YOU say be taken as credible compared to Moore.

              • Chooky

                ? again incomprehensible

                • moore – Moore thinks that all these Trump supporters are eventually going to regret voting for him

                  kooky – however they may regret voting for Hillary even more

                  marty – why should we listen to you not michael moore?

                  kooky – ???

                  • Pasupial

                    As a simpleton, Trump offers simple answers to complex questions. This can be very appealing. However, I do have to wonder how many woman told Moore that they were for considering voting for that creep? His; “now the wife and kids are gone” line (quoted in OP) suggests that not many were asked.

                    What the abbreviated clip of Moore’s statement leaves out is Moore’s assessment of disenchanted “Brexit state” voters selecting Trump.

                    “[Voting for Trump will feel good] for a day. Maybe a week. Possibly a month. And then. Like the Brits, who wanted to send a message, so they voted to leave Europe only to find out that if you vote to leave Europe you, actually have to leave Europe,” Moore told the Ohio crowd. “And now they regret it. All the Ohioans, Pennsylvanians, Michiganders and Wisconsinites of Middle England, right, they all voted to leave and now they regret it.”

                    Talk about damning with faint praise. Moore ended his introduction to “TrumpLand” with this message to Trump voters: “Goodnight America. You’ve just elected the last president of the United States.”

                    http://www.salon.com/2016/10/27/donald-trump-praises-michael-moore-for-predicting-a-hillary-clinton-loss/

                    • Chooky

                      Here is the “simpleton”…from the horses mouth

                    • Colonial Viper

                      However, I do have to wonder how many woman told Moore that they were for considering voting for that creep? His; “now the wife and kids are gone” line (quoted in OP) suggests that not many were asked.

                      Trump will need to hold the gender gap to Romney/Obama 2012 or less in order to win. If women break for Clinton +20% on election day, Trump is toast.

                    • Pasupial

                      Chooky
                      That does have some nice editing, but I’m assuming that someone else wrote most of the script. When we see Trump on the spot answering a question in a debate or interview, his speech is more limited.

                      I’m not saying that his speaking manner isn’t effective with connecting with some voters. But I am saying that the world is more complex than his slogans. I guess it comes down to whether facts matter to you.

            • dukeofurl 12.3.1.2.1.2

              Only the losing side will never fulfill its expectations- so in that respect you are right.
              Its a politician you vote for, not membership of a church with an all wise and knowing deity.

          • Richard Rawshark 12.3.1.2.2

            LMAO, as they gazed up to see the approaching ICBM a everlasting shout was heard across the face of planet earth.

            “I knew I should have ticked the other box.”

            Either way same result.

  13. Enough is Enough 13

    Moore is absolutely correct.

    What this election has shown is how unpopular the “Establishment” and Elite really are in the US.

    Trump destroyed the Republican Primary favourites and he is giving Hillary the race of her life.

    With the skeleton in Trumps’ cupboard the only way to explain it is America has had enough of the system they are in.

  14. McFlock 14

    “A lot” aren’t irredeemables? Nice to know.

    Trump has actually been trying to change his approach since the primaries (although the real T still leaks through, like when the black guy asked him about presidential qualities and Trump went off about inner city crime lol).

    But ‘build a wall to keep the rapists and murderers out’ isn’t exactly appealing to the middle class, and he sure isn’t backing away from that sort of position.

    And his audience members seem… more colourful in some ways than others.

    So, to paraphrase Trump: they’re racists, they’re rednecks, and some of them, I’m sure, are middle class people…

    Maybe he should compile his bigly aphorisms: Trump’s Little Orange Book

  15. Rob 15

    Its refreshing to have CV open an honest debate. No doubt there is increasing disbelief and disdain of politics & politicians and civics in general by a broad range of people.

    The people at the “defined’ bottom that exist outside of the tax / benefit system – really dont give a shit.

    The “middle” defined people are struggling and big tax is a burdon for them and their kids. And this tax band is the engine room of the tax system, it funds almost everything.

    The well off, well they dont trust anyone outside of themselves.

    Then the whole political layer, this is their ride and any cause that requires funding is gauranteed to get their attention. People are getting sick of paying for this shit.

    Its easy to see why populations are starting to understand that having career elected officials represent their views and future good prospects is futile and delivers nothing.

    • joe90 15.1

      The well off, well they dont trust anyone outside of themselves.

      Unless of course the well off need the rest of us to hold onto their station.

      What is it about a flamboyant millionaire that appeals to poor white conservatives? Why do they believe a Trump presidency would amplify their voices? The answer may lie in America’s historical relationship between the wealthiest class and the army of poor whites who have loyally supported them.

      From the time of slavery (yes, slavery) to the rise of Donald Trump, wealthy elites have relied on the allegiance of the white underclass to retain their affluence and political power. To understand this dynamic, to see through the eyes of poor and working class whites as they chant, “Trump, Trump, Trump,” let’s look back at a few unsavory slices of America’s capitalist pie

      http://www.stirjournal.com/2016/04/01/i-know-why-poor-whites-chant-trump-trump-trump/

      • Rob 15.1.1

        Yeah….well , you are on to it Joe….some real nice reading & linking there. What do you think?

      • Colonial Viper 15.1.2

        given that 7 out of 10 Americans can’t even find $1000 in their bank account after 8 years of Obama rule, do you have an explanation for why the Democrats are continuing a massive underclass which will support the Republicans

        And since the Clintons have accumulated $250M or more of personal wealth since WJC left office, do you count them amongst the scum bag “wealthy elites” who use the underclass for their own political purposes?

        • Rob 15.1.2.1

          Well, dare we all say it, a lot of politicos are pretty well off, and they have they have the time &/or luxuary to debate &/or moan.

          Not easy to debate &/or moan when you are fixing plasterboard or stuffing batts into houses for a living.

        • joe90 15.1.2.2

          scum bag “wealthy elites”

          Your words sport, not mine, and you’re the one with a boner for the NYC blue blood.

          • Rob 15.1.2.2.1

            You added nothing Joe , why even bother. Spark up when you have something meaningful to contribute.

            • joe90 15.1.2.2.1.1

              Who the fuck are you to turn up late to the party and demand a rundown of the past six months.

              Fuck you and your horse, trole.

          • Colonial Viper 15.1.2.2.2

            Hi joe90, you are quite right sorry I will recast my careless phrasing: with over $250M personal net worth do you consider the Clintons as part of the “wealthy elite” of the USA?

        • Lanthanide 15.1.2.3

          As I’ve said before, CV, the American culture is one of consumption, not savings.

          Saying 70% of Americans don’t have $1k in savings seems bad on the face of it – but you can also interpret that as many Americans being hopeful for their future prosperity, so they see no need to save and are happy to spend everything they earn.

          Contrast with the cultural attitudes in China, where people, peasants especially, save as much money as possible, because there is little in the way of government support and they expect to face tough times in the future.

          • Colonial Viper 15.1.2.3.1

            Saying 70% of Americans don’t have $1k in savings seems bad on the face of it – but you can also interpret that as many Americans being hopeful for their future prosperity, so they see no need to save and are happy to spend everything they earn.

            OK I can see the glass half full point that you are trying to make, but I’d suggest that it could also be seen as a lot of burnishing of the turd.

  16. DS 16

    Trump’s base are poorly educated yet comfortably off white male Protestants. He’s not getting support from actual poor people (except for the usual suspect states in the South), and he is not going to win Michigan or Pennsylvania or Wisconsin. He might win Ohio, but that’s it as far as the Rust Belt is concerned.

    As for Lefties liking Trump (a phenomenon largely limited to those who wouldn’t actually have to suffer under him), supporting a fascist because the opposition isn’t left-wing enough has some tragic precedent. Frankly, and speaking as an ardent Lefty, I would back Margaret Thatcher over Donald Trump.

    • Rob 16.1

      Wow, we have found it , here is the oracle on identifying the poorly eduacted. You best look out out you dumb schmucks!

      We all bow in your presence , oh mighty mage!

      • DS 16.1.1

        Um, try taking a look at the polling crosstabs. They often break down by age, ethnicity, gender, income, level of education, and religion, Trump does terribly among young people, non-whites, women, the poor, the educated, and non-Protestants.

        • Rob 16.1.1.1

          Nice one DS, unfortuntaly you still dont get get the debate.

          Its not the matter of liking Trump, its failure in belief of the system.

        • Colonial Viper 16.1.1.2

          So you believe that Clinton is going to beat Trump in the popular vote by around +10 percentage points? Therefore a landslide for Clinton by a hundred or more electoral votes?

          • DS 16.1.1.2.1

            7-10 points, yes. At this stage, a Hillary +12 would surprise me less than a Hillary +3.

            As far as EVs go, she’s looking at Obama 2012 + North Carolina + Nebraska’s 2nd Congressional District. Arizona is pure toss-up, and after that, in ascending order of difficulty, Georgia, Alaska, South Carolina, and Texas. Utah remains a wildcard because of McMullin splitting the right-wing vote.

            Even if it were close, any Republican (not just Trump) runs into the Blue Wall problem. Hillary only needs those states John Kerry won in 2004, plus Virginia and Colorado, and she’s won. Doesn’t matter if Trump wins Iowa, Nevada, Ohio, and Florida.

            • Colonial Viper 16.1.1.2.1.1

              I think Hillary is only +2 up on Trump currently hence the massive and ongoing attacks on him; I will be extremely surprised if she pulls a +7 or +10 on the popular vote. Not saying it is impossible though. As for the Blue Wall problem yep that is a real one which faces any and every Repub candidate.

              • Rob

                Yep, reading your notes is similar to reading the run down of the Melbourne Cup stakes by starter. All “lite facts”, but no real awareness .

  17. Rob 17

    Yeah, Clinton will win by a landslide and it will be the better result , unbelievable as it may seem, as Clinton is amazingly hopeless. However Trump is an idiot, but my god there is some real anger out there.

  18. Rob 18

    How did we end up with these two?

    • Colonial Viper 18.1

      My best guess is that the establishment would have been fine with either Jeb Bush or Hillary Clinton; but they eventually chose Clinton and discarded Jeb, instead deciding to promote a weak outsider “Pied Piper” candidate in Trump as someone that Clinton should have no trouble running over and leaving on the side of the street as political road kill.

      Except that Trump has performed rather unexpectedly well.

      • Lanthanide 18.1.1

        Just ignoring that most of the establishment has been vocally against Trump, and that he won by a public primary.

        In other words, denying reality.

        Party insiders picking the nominee hasn’t happened since 1966.

        • Colonial Viper 18.1.1.1

          I love your faith in the US democratic process, good on ya mate.

          • Lanthanide 18.1.1.1.1

            If you want to deny reality, fine, just don’t pretend you have some sort of inside information about ‘what is really happening’, because you don’t.

  19. Michael 19

    Uh, no.
    Michael Moore is vociferously campaigning *for* Hillary Clinton. Understanding Trump’s appeal is not the same as condoning it.

    And Trump supported American auto companies stopping jobs from going? Give me a break! He shipped jobs to low-wage nations in Asia by making all his products there. Obama was the one who bailed out the auto industry and protected hundreds of thousands of factory jobs.

    Donald Trump is a racist, sexist authoritarian billionaire who is looking out only for himself — a man who believes in not paying taxes, enriching himself, all while building a huge tower with his name in gold letters at the top is not a working class here that will save the disaffected people of America.

    Electing Donald Trump will be the biggest inhibitor to progressive change, and I’m not just speaking socially but economically too. Hillary Clinton has come out against TPP. Hillary Clinton supports free tuition for tertiary education. Hillary Clinton supports strengthening unions and raising the minimum wage. Hillary Clinton supports paid parental leave and affordable childcare. Hillary Clinton supports greater regulation of the banks and monopolistic industries. Hillary Clinton supports raising taxes on the wealthy. Hillary Clinton wants to ensure the US follows through on its Paris agreement commitments.

    Donald Trump will give bigger taxes to the wealthy than Reagan did. Donald Trump wants to reverse federal regulations and freeze more regulations. Trump wants to tear up climate change actions. Trump opposes affordable childcare. Trump doesn’t care about unions or protecting jobs: just look how he himself has treated unions and shipped jobs to low-wage countries.

    And while Hillary has flaws, she can be pushed by a strong populist movement and Democrats in congress like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, and others. Bernie Sanders will be chair of the senate budget committee and Elizabeth Warren will be able to block any too industry-friendly regulatory appointments.

    • Richard Rawshark 19.1

      Incorrect

      “And Trump supported American auto companies stopping jobs from going? Give me a break! He shipped jobs to low-wage nations in Asia by making all his products there. Obama was the one who bailed out the auto industry and protected hundreds of thousands of factory jobs.”

      He imported cheap construction materials I am unaware of anything he manufactures as a product you can buy in a shop. But IDNK perhaps he does?

      As for what you said about the Auto industry you do know the truth is he went to Detroit stood in front of these execs and said if they moved their manufacturing out of the states to say Mexico like they are planning to currently do, he would slap a 35% tariff on them and no one in the US would buy them.

      what you said, who told you that?

      you know what Clinton money buys yo favours and time style government does?

      It means free trade deals, free rides, and companies don’t pay penalities on importing the goods they used to manufacture in that country therefore free trade means one thing, Companies get to flood china asia india with m,anufacturing and assembly, IE cheap labour costs saving fortunes and pay no penalty for it, they have by their greed and manipulation destroyed the very societies they started off in. Now those very people struggle to pay for the goods they once could. Well FKN DONE.

  20. Richard Rawshark 20

    I have come to my ultimate conclusion of who I would vote for and it’s Trump, however we do it, whatever tool we use, it’s time to break the machine. Sorry. Had enough of corporate life.

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    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    2 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    3 days ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    3 days ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    3 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    3 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    4 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
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    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    4 days ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    4 days ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    4 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    4 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    4 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    7 days ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    1 week ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    1 week ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
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    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    1 week ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
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    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    1 week ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    1 week ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • ‘The Workshop’ – Report: Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform: A Guide to Strategies that ...
    The Workshop is a charitable trust for public good. The Workshop undertake research to find ways of communicating that will build support for the solutions that work to solve complex social and environmental problems. See their Report on Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform below. ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • Exclusive language
    What is language? We generally assume that it a facility unique to humans, allowing us to share what’s in and on our minds. We can tell of our plans, our past exploits, our knowledge. It also allows us to lie. And yet there are vast numbers of people we can’t ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    2 weeks ago
  • April 2018 – Submission to the NZ Govt Tax Working Group
    You can read our submission HERE ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago

  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    20 hours ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    21 hours ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
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