Mindless questions

Written By: - Date published: 9:50 am, February 13th, 2014 - 303 comments
Categories: john key, spin, winston peters - Tags:

The question I’d like the media to ask is “Where did John Key get his information that Winston visited DotCom three times?” Most likely source it seems to me is the GCSB. I think Winston  may have a point about his right to privacy.

The spies have always laced their briefings to the Prime Minister with political titbits, and now that Key has his old friend Ian Fletcher in the job, not to mention pressure from his golfing partner in Hawaii, I’d say its a reasonable question.

Key knows the gallery can always be side-tracked into their favourite, and utterly fruitless, game of Winston-bashing, as evidenced by this pointless piece of puffery from Audrey Young. They would do the rest of us a better service if they also questioned Key on his sources.

303 comments on “Mindless questions”

  1. MaxFletcher 1

    I’m not sure Key would need the GCSB to figure it out. I am under the impression the parliament is like a leaking ship – rumours, back-chat and whispers are plentiful.

  2. Tiger Mountain 2

    NZ political reporters are a very sorry lot indeed if they cannot (immediately) ask the obvious question that Mike puts.

    Key is whinging about himself and Banksie being previously questioned about their visits and knowledge of Mr Dotcom as a justification for pressing Norman and Peters. The thing is Key and Banksie performed acrobatics, indulged in semantics, prevaricated and generally adopted every squiggle known to politicians to avoid accountability. And Key is the MINISTER of the myriad snoops who always manages to know nothing? Or if he does know something perhaps it gets regularly “aged off” his synapses by some new tech means.

    Helen Kelly says

    I guess Helen’s point may be that while previously the GCSB spied on Mr Dotcom when they were not legally allowed to, now that they can do so, surely Mr Key would know if they were?

    • MaxFletcher 2.1

      “The thing is Key and Banksie performed acrobatics, indulged in semantics, prevaricated and generally adopted every squiggle known to politicians to avoid accountability.”

      Same could be said for Peters as well re: the Glenn Own affair.

    • lprent 2.2

      That was my question yesterday. How was it that Key was so certain of his facts.

      Is he abusing the GCSB or is it the police?

      • MaxFletcher 2.2.1

        Or neither? Could be a leak from parliamentary staff somewhere.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.1.1

          Or it could be that the Prime Minister wants to look like an obsessive stalker who has people followed. Perhaps he thinks he’s Littlefinger, but just can’t manage the clarity of speech.

        • lprent 2.2.1.2

          Over a two year period? Yeah pull the other one.

          This requires a filing system…

        • Tracey 2.2.1.3

          would a leaky be enough certainty for key to be so front footed on this? surely he would want something stronger thatn what could be just a rumour?

      • PapaMike 2.2.2

        Probably the Police aided by the SIS, but is the Telecom tent still at the entrance to the rented house ? – or is it a journalist watching who goes where, or is it a leak from within the house ?

        • MaxFletcher 2.2.2.1

          “Probably the Police aided by the SIS”

          I would highly doubt that because then Key has to face the prospect of having to admit to using the SIS to spy on members of the house which is political suicide.

          Far more likely to be something mundane.

      • AmaKiwi 2.2.3

        “Then why are you blushing, Prime Minister?”

        Key was beet red on TV3 news when he denied government spies told him.

        Look at it again. He looks like he has sunstroke.

      • PapaMike 2.2.4

        Five of DotCom’s security staff have left since October in including his top man Tempero.
        There have been serious money problems there, not only by his staff but by contractors.

  3. JanM 3

    The thing is, of course, that the more obviously nonsensical the spin, and the more apparent the bias of the press, the less credibility they attract, as you can see if you read the comments on Audrey’s piece. Let them go for it I say. At this rate even the daftest of us will see the light!

  4. Tracey 4

    Id like them to ask Key

    “You don’t seem impressed by winston visiting dotcom. Will you still work with him post 2014?”

  5. wtl 5

    Is it just me or is there something deeply disturbing about the PM knowing exactly who and when an opposition MP is visiting?

    • JanM 5.1

      Yes, there is something deeply disturbing about it. George Orwell just got his dates a bit wrong.

    • ianmac 5.2

      Short answer wtl, “Yes!”

    • Draco T Bastard 5.3

      Not just you, the PM knowing who the opposition visits is very deeply disturbing. Especially when that information is then used to attack the opposition.

      • marty mars 5.3.1

        Yes I agree, very deeply disturbing indeed. There is no good reason for the PM to have this information regarding who the opposition is visiting – it’s beyond trying to find dirt to throw, it’s sinister.

        • Colonial Viper 5.3.1.1

          When the Government has extensive surveillance powers without checks and balances, this is what you can expect.

    • aerobubble 5.4

      Yeah, as if Dotcom told him exactly how many, when Key’s minion was discussing how Dotcom could get the extradiction dropped if he undermined the next election, helping Key back in.

  6. Sosoo 6

    I doubt that it is the GCSB. My guess is that National employs its own spies and cyber spies.

    That’s really the missing piece of what’s been going on lately. Sure, governments are tapping your email and so on, but private companies have just as much of an incentive to engage in cyber spying as the government, after all, your wants and desires tend to be recorded in your browser history and social media profile, and it’s cheap and easy to hack your competitors.

    • Tracey 6.1

      I agree. He did say he had a top drawer of stuff people say.

      Seems he doesnt want to work with nzf afterall.

      Key speaks with forked tongue indeed.

  7. Roflcopter 7

    I hope you continue pushing this angle as hard as possible… what could possibly go wrong?

    • lprent 7.1

      If it is what we suspect, then John Key could get a visit from the police to drag him into court.

      It is illegal to use the state security apparatus to advance a politician’s agenda.

      • Roflcopter 7.1.1

        Peters visiting KDC was hinted at several weeks ago, by someone outside of gov’t, so have fun heading down this track.

        • karol 7.1.1.1

          Who? And why does that discount the possibility of the leak coming from within Key’s government?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.1.2

          Don’t be so cynical Karol. Roflcopter obviously doesn’t want us wasting our time on this non-story, and is doing us all a huge favour by helpfully explaining it all.

          Roflcopter, that said, it should be noted, however, that this isn’t so much the track “the Left” are on – we’re watching KDC and Peters with interest, though.

        • lprent 7.1.1.3

          Who? Whaleoil? The mouthpiece of this government being fed information by Jason Ede – from John Key’s office. Don’t be a dickhead. Hardly a independent source.

          That really doesn’t address the question about how John Key knew it was *exactly* 3 times that Winston Peters had visited KDC. That is extraordinarily precise information to get from the outside for a period of over 2 years.

          Peters had to look that up himself in his diary. So is John Key spying on Winston Peters? With what? GCSB? Police? Subverting a staffer in Winston’s office?

          Doesn’t look good for Key. I think that he has just made sure that Winston both gets back into parliament AND distrusts John Key and/or National…

          • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.1.3.1

            People who aren’t connected to the National Party tell him things.

            • Tracey 7.1.1.3.1.1

              People who the national party has an agreement not to be linked to the national party tell him things…

              Re read the hollow men people… history is repeating. The cracks appeared in the well crafted veneer national built after 2005… so now its time to wallow in the mud

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                “Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent”. The National Party has run out of ideas, especially where KDC is concerned.

                People who aren’t connected to the National Party tell me John Key is a shape-shifting lizard from outer space. I ask to see their sources. Silence reigns.

                • Tracey

                  Wayne hasnt been able to find documents to refute it though 😉

                  Hard to believe this is the same man who frothed at the mouth for a year over paintgate and helen clarks non involvement in glens donation to winston.

                  Its like he never had a stance on it.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.1.3.2

            …he has just made sure that Winston both gets back into parliament AND distrusts John Key and/or National…

            It seems such an overt burn that I cannot help but wonder – has Key decided that Winston will exact too great a price from National for his support? Or concluded that he has no chance with Winnie so why not muddy the waters a little?

            The Nats must have some sort of strategy in mind for minimising any damage from the Dotcom hearings. This attack on NZF and the Greens, though, has the potential to cement relationships between the two. Ok I’ll stop thinking now.

            • weka 7.1.1.3.2.1

              The first thing I thought was NZF getting over 5% stops the left from having an outright win. It also slows down the shift away from neoliberalism even if Peters supports Labour.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Yep. Knowing they’ll lose the election they seek to sow discord in the three-headed beast.

            • Tracey 7.1.1.3.2.2

              Armstrong just praised key for being transparent. Will he ask him if this means winston is off the coalition list?

              Maybe we assume too much of the nats. They have duped so many for so long they just assume dotcom is disliked by most…

          • Watching 7.1.1.3.3

            Doesn’t look good for Key. I think that he has just made sure that Winston both gets back into parliament AND distrusts John Key and/or National…

            What we see in the media & blogs, what we see in interviews, what we see in statements, what we are told is not necessarily the playbook . In sport or in negotiations to settle its not a wise strategy to accept that the other team is following ‘your understanding’ of their playbook.

            Politics has no rule books, and politicians are the best exponent of the reverse playbook bluff. Maybe this is the Key-Peters playbook whereby Key make sure Peters gets back in parliament – and all comment from both sides is just noise.

            • Tracey 7.1.1.3.3.1

              Reverse playbook bluff is in the playbook though

            • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.1.3.3.2

              Yes, that’s plausible too. It sort of depends what Dotcom’s “proof” amounts to. If KDC can produce evidence that will destroy Key, and they’re all as calculating and venal as your comment suggests, Winnie would be talking to Collins and/or Joyce, not Key.

              • Tracey

                Why would key being caught in a lie be fatal to key. He got caught before and suffers from misrememberingnesslessness. The dupes forgive all.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Because of that John Campbell interview where he spends ten minutes denying it. Even Paddy Gower will join the feeding frenzy once there’s blood in the water, and that would put National under 40%.

              • PapaMike

                Has this any bearing upon the legal process of Extradition – nothing to do with Key I expect ?
                Let the Law do its job – it is being obfuscated by all sorts of unlegal innuendo.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Of course it has a bearing on the legal process, because the final stage of this process is a Ministerial decision, and questions of ministerial bias may arise.

        • Tracey 7.1.1.4

          Source?

        • AmaKiwi 7.1.1.5

          John Key’s face TOLD you the truth. He blushed beet red. What does that tell you?

          • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.1.5.1

            Not much. It could mean he was lying. It could mean he was upset at being called a liar. It could be that he was upset at being scorned by someone ten times richer than him.

  8. Enough is Enough 8

    Parliament and more particularly parliamentary staffers are hot bed of gossips. It is reasonably hard to keep a lid on where MP’s are at any time. We don’t usuallt know what goes on behind closed doors but we do usually know who is behind those same doors (whether it is parliamentary business or otherwise).

    If Key comes out and tells us what was discussed between the German and Peters then I think we would really have to question how he was getting the info.

    But it is a bit OTT to presume Key knows there was a meeting because the GCSB told him.

    • karol 8.1

      It could be the GCSB or it could be this:

      Winston Peters on Twitter:

      .@LloydBurr Dear Lloyd. We went to a confidential dinner – enjoyable. Next morning you talked. Conclusion. End of a beautiful friendship.

      • karol 8.1.1

        And Tweet from Bryce Edwards…. curiouser and curiouser

        Has Simon Lusk been involved in Internet Party? Has he been leaking to Whaleoil, PM, etc? What a tangled web.

        • Enough is Enough 8.1.1.1

          Very curious, and reinforces my point that no meeting is a secret meeting when you are an MP.

      • Tracey 8.1.2

        Who is lloyd burr?

      • Tracey 8.1.3

        Accessibility Skip to Global Navigation Skip to Local Navigation Skip to Content Skip to Search Skip to Site MapMenu

        Close menu

        Thinking of Otago?For current studentsFor Otago staffAbout OtagoResearchLearning and teachingMāori ki OtāgoInternationalAlumniContact Otago

         

        Search the University of Otago

        Lloyd Burr

        After graduating with a BA(Hons) in Communication Studies from Otago, I moved to the New Zealand Broadcasting School in Christchurch to study journalism.

        Lloyd Burr
        BA(Hons) Communication Studies, 2009

        Two years and thousands of earthquakes later, I was approached by TV3 to start up the online news operation in Wellington and at Parliament.

        I leapt at the chance, moved north and have never looked back. I’ve covered some big stories, including the Rugby World Cup, the elections, numerous murder trials and the demise of a number of politicians. My role also means I’m at the forefront of predicting the future of media consumption in a landscape of volatile platform convergence.

        I work with some of the country’s most experienced and renowned journalists for New Zealand’s biggest multi-media company – my future is bright and Otago is where it all started

        • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.3.1

          Bright future. He knows the secret pass phrase, at least 🙂

        • veutoviper 8.1.3.2

          Just Google the name – much quicker and more up to date information.

          Currently RadioLIVE political journalist working for MediaWorks; July 2013 to present, Parliament.

          Previously TV3 Online Reporter. June 2011 to June 2013.

          Twitter account

  9. Barnsley Bill 9

    Tinfoil hat time.
    Have you considered the answer might be as simple as the PM reads New Zealands most popular blog. Whaleoil have been talking about Winston visiting for weeks. Lots of ex KDC employees squealing too.

    • lprent 9.1

      So much squealing from our favourite RWNJ’s.

      Looks like Mike has struck a nerve…

      Perhaps we should get the police to look at Cameron’s email to find out if the GCSB staff have been leaking to him? We have no idea if the GCSB is still monitoring KDC because the warrants are sealed.

      After all the security acts operate on a presumption of guilt until proven innocent

      • Disraeli Gladstone 9.1.1

        I genuinely, quite literally, facepalmed.

        The GCSB leaking to Slater?

        This is not a Jim le Carre novel. And if it is then it’s the worst one ever written because I haven’t even got any repressed British elitism to entertain me as a side plot.

        • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1

          Considering the incompetence of NZ’s managers in general it really wouldn’t surprise me if they were.

          • Disraeli Gladstone 9.1.1.1.1

            The complete and utter failure of the principle of “economic managerialism” does lead to incompetence.

            But I don’t know if incompetence leads to the GCSB (‘spies’) leaking to a source about reliable as three day old chicken laying in the sun. Usually, people leak to spies. Spies do not tend to leak to a blogger who has a track record of throwing his toys out of the pram. They wouldn’t touch Slater with a fifty foot pole.

            • wtl 9.1.1.1.1.1

              Yes, the GCSB directly leaking to Slater is highly unlikely. The GCSB indirectly leaking to Slater (e.g. through the PM, Collins etc.) is certainly plausible.

            • Draco T Bastard 9.1.1.1.1.2

              I didn’t suggest that it was the spies who were leaking.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.1.2

          What would be unusual about continued surveillance of KDC, given the official narrative about his activities?

        • Disraeli Gladstone 9.1.1.3

          Also, shame on you for nobody correcting Jim to John.

          Brain fade there.

        • lprent 9.1.1.4

          We know that Jason Ede leaks to Cameron. Right?

          Jason Ede from John Keys office.

          John Key who appointed his mate Fletcher to run the GCSB. Who has at least doubled the number of *local* intercept warrants over the last year.

          You’re really so naive that you really don’t think that it is up to John Key to show his source for his certainty about the number of visits.

          • tinfoilhat 9.1.1.4.1

            Do you want to borrow my pseudonym ?

            I think someone was correct the other day when they said it would be one of the weirder election years.

            • lprent 9.1.1.4.1.1

              One of those WW1 flat british helmets seems safer.

            • Jimmie 9.1.1.4.1.2

              Might need a fair few rolls of tin foil – going by the number of comments on this thread.

              So if Labour or the Greens find out from a snitch that Don Brash met with the Exclusive Brethren then that is ok, however if John Key hears from a snitch that Winston Peters went to see Dot Com then it must have been the evil spies.

              I think the left is getting a little embarrassed that their short term love affair with KDC is turning out to have unintended consequences.

              Is the lure of ill gotten money so powerful that the reds, the greens, and peters all have to go on a pilgrimage to his mansion?

              Would have been much better to have had nothing to do with KDC and painted him as a stereotype of a capitalist crook who has never done an honest day’s work in his life.

              • McFlock

                So if Labour or the Greens find out from a snitch that Don Brash met with the Exclusive Brethren

                Hmmm. You obviously have a prime opportunity to demonstrate textbook hypocrisy on the part of “the left”. If you could relate it to reality, of course…

              • amirite

                The snitch was always from the Right (someone from National leaked to Hager).
                This time they have the technology as well.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.1.4.2

            That would be very stupid, but to think it through.

            If I were him, I’d use an intermediary. I’d have a trusted childhood friend appointed as GCSB head, and have them leak to a third party who’d then pass it on. But that would be insanely stupid because any evidence of it would put all three of us in the clink.

            Key’s explanation makes more sense: after all, the French couldn’t even land a secret dinghy without people gossiping.

            Winnie goes to play at Kimmie’s is at least as memorable (to the average Joe) as spies who smell of garlic landing a boat at dead of night.

            Key’s explanation implies it’s one source, though. That’s revealing.

      • Barnsley Bill 9.1.2

        Bwahaha. Yup. Our nations security services are leaking to Cameron Slater. That must be it.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.2.1

          Nah, there are certainly other possibilities, but Fletcher -> Key -> Ede -> Slater isn’t so hard to imagine.

        • lprent 9.1.2.2

          Probably not directly. But Jason Ede from John Key’s office and direct leaks from Judith Collin(‘s) office have been pretty well proven in the past.

          Essentially Cameron/Whaleoil appear to be a mindless sockpuppet for National’s politicians.

          Incidentally, are you still working for Cameron?

          • Barnsley Bill 9.1.2.2.1

            I never worked for Cameron. EVER.
            I did contract for that particular publisher at the same time. But not anymore.
            I have returned to the Bay of Islands to go broke again, I expect that to occur by mid 2015 and then have to schlep back to Auckland again for a year or two to make more lolly so I can then head North to slowly go broke again.
            I am currently on cycle 4 of that particular journey.
            Your theory on how Key found out certainly slots nicely into your usual fevered imaginings but the idea is preposterous. Now if Clark was still PM the idea might have legs 🙂
            Anything else you need to know?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.2.2.1.1

              Oh I’m sure you’re right. To go through official channels in this manner would be an error/criminal act of Banksian proportions and I doubt Key would go there.

              But you’re missing the point, which is that by bringing it up, Key looks like a stalker. Winston’s got a stalker. His name’s John. Not a good look John.

            • lprent 9.1.2.2.1.2

              😈

              Sounds like fun. I prefer helping companies grow with my skills. This is the the 4th one.

              BTW: What is that silly phrase that the wingnuts use “Explaining is losing” ? John Key seems to have missed that.

    • Tiger Mountain 9.2

      All the soft tory apologia appearing here hints at something more to come, oh damn, that pesky damages case against NZ Govt. by Kim Dotcom and possible Snowden revelations relating to NZ, oh shit, and Banksie taking his final fall.

      If the statutory snoopers are not involved in ShonKeys parliamentary sniping does that really mean we have to rely on WhaleSpew? At the time of the last election when the partner of a Green Party member was making decal additions to National Party hoardings Blubberguts was running a ‘pay for tips’ junior Stasi operation urging followers to be alert and note down car plates and other comings and goings. So while such is possible there are better guesses available given the stakes.

        • ianmac 9.2.1.1

          Interesting and it says, “He (Kim) followed that up by saying Mr Key should be asked how he knew about three visits.
          “Only 4 people knew about it & probably Ian Fletcher at the GCSB.”
          Fancy the Herald publishing this???

        • mickysavage 9.2.1.2

          Winston has spoken. From a press release:

          “Rt Hon Winston Peters has confirmed that he met Kim Dotcom three times in the last two years and has asked the Prime Minister to explain how he knew about the meetings.

          The meetings followed New Zealand First criticising the immigration process for Mr Dotcom and the conflicting positions taken by senior Cabinet ministers over his case.

          They also followed the armed police raid, the arrest and release of Mr Dotcom and the subsequent court case which ruled the raid unlawful.

          Mr Peters was approached by Kim Dotcom who wanted to explain his side of the story.

          The pair met first to discuss the immigration issue and then twice to discuss matters relating to the GCSB case.

          Mr Peters says nothing was asked for and nothing was offered, no taxpayers’ money was used.

          “The meetings were confidential and I agreed to keep them as such.

          “In many years of politics I have never broken a confidentiality agreement and do not intend to start doing so, despite the squawking of beltway reporters in Parliament.

          “Mr Dotcom has agreed to lift the confidentiality agreement as it is a matter of deep concern that my movements were apparently being tracked.”

          Mr Peters says National Party sources obviously knew of the three meetings and this points to information being passed to and from the top floor of the Beehive.

          “Does this mean that some New Zealand politicians are now under surveillance? Exactly when did the Prime Minister authorise someone to keep tabs on me?

          “New Zealanders should be outraged that a former Deputy Prime Minister, Foreign Minister and Opposition party leader has apparently been spied on,” says Mr Peters.”

          So he wanted to respect a confidentiality agreement. And where did Key get the information from?

        • mickysavage 9.2.1.3

          AAANNNDDD

          Dotcom has tweeted …

          “The Prime Minister set himself up. He knew specifically about “three” visits by Peters. Not even our staff knew there were “three” visits.”

          So how did Key know?

          • grumpy 9.2.1.3.1

            Wouldn’t attempting to pervert the course of justice be a police matter? Perhaps it was the guys that couldn’t carry out the raid properly having another go?
            Only joking……

          • Hayden 9.2.1.3.2

            From Stuff, here:

            Key today refused to say how he knew of Peters’ visits but said it was not through official security channels.

            “I can absolutely categorically tell you it’s got nothing to do with an official agency. From time to time people see things and from time to time people tell me.”

            The person who told him was not aligned with the National party or any government agency.

            “…I was pretty sure they’d be right because they often are and guess what, they were”.

            Yeah, I’m sure he makes accusations like that in Parliament based on “they’re often right”.

            Also:

            He said he did not know what Peters and Dotcom discussed but said the New Zealand public was entitled to know.

            Hypocrite, much?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 9.2.1.3.2.1

              “From time to time people see things and from time to time people tell me.”

              He does think he’s Littlefinger.

            • Bill 9.2.1.3.2.2

              “From time to time people see things and from time to time people tell me” can’t be referring to a person or persons on three separate occasions ‘seeing’ Winston Peters visit Dotcom. It could refer to someone on one occasion seeing a report to that effects though. And it could refer to that someone passing on what they saw ‘over a beer’…which would have “absolutely categorically (…) nothing to do with an official agency” per se – just some chat over a beer in an unofficial capacity by some ‘mate’ who may just happen to work for gcsb or head them or whatever….maybe even passed to Johnny by someone one or two steps removed.

              Maybe Johnny simply overlooked the implication of ‘unofficially’ repeated info being passed to him by someone he was “pretty sure (would be) be right because they often are and guess what, they were”

              Fucking idiot?

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                That reading of Key’s statement had occurred to me too, but the politically damaging aspect of it is that Johnny Bankster is watching you. Fuck does it matter who his eyes are, the guy’s a Peeping Tom.

            • Draco T Bastard 9.2.1.3.2.3

              From time to time people see things and from time to time people tell me.

              That doesn’t ring true. For someone to be able to tell him that would have to require that someone to be watching whoever goes to see KDC and to take a record of it. Not something that most casual passersby do.

              The person who told him was not aligned with the National party or any government agency.

              “…I was pretty sure they’d be right because they often are and guess what, they were”.

              And that would indicate that it was someone who was hired to do the watching.

              If it wasn’t a national agency then it would have to have been someone hired either directly or indirectly by National to spy upon KDC and/or Winston.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Casual passsers-by would remember seeing Winston Peters entering/leaving the secret SMERSH headquarters, let alone Kim’s place. Ask the French how easily your cover gets blown.

                • karol

                  But one person happening to be a casual passerby on the 3 occasions that Peters visited the mansion? If not employed by key, then someone Key knows.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Or someone who makes it their business to keep an eye on things, like a journalist for example?

                    • PapaMike

                      Could it be Rachael Glucina a reporter, who now appears to have ben named as the provider of this information ?

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Would they actually see him? It’s quite difficult to see somebody in a car especially if they’re in the back seat.

              • AmaKiwi

                Draco, you are spot on correct.

                Someone was hired to do the spying, “a friend of responsible government” or some b.s.

          • PapaMike 9.2.1.3.3

            Got it from Whale !

            • BM 9.2.1.3.3.1

              I wouldn’t be surprised, whale oil seems to get a lot of tip offs.

              Key did a Winston to Winston, threw a question out there and then waited to see if he got lucky and hooked something.

              Well fished John Key..

              Also immigration matters, who believes that.

              • Tracey

                Be honest. If this were helen clark you would be frothing at the mouth in your horror that she wont reveal how she knew.

                Why do you think he wanted to maligned what he calls a potential coalition partner?

                Compare peters response to john banks.

                • BM

                  Like Key said he got told by some one, so he threw it out there and waited to see what happened.

                  Why do you think he wanted to maligned what he calls a potential coalition partner?

                  Key’s going for 50%+ so Peters can go get bent.

                  • Tracey

                    Couldnt bring yourself to give an honest answer aye

                    • BM

                      You’re assuming Key did something silly like get the GSCB involved.

                      That would be political suicide, to risk it all for what is just a minor skirmish doesn’t seem particularly rational.

                      Which is why my scenario is much more plausible.

                    • Tracey

                      No. Am not assuming gcsb involvement. Am assuming if this were clark or cunliffe you would be baying for their source.

                      Keep telling yourself the little rationalizations bm… dont want you finding out you are being duped daily and have been since about 2007.

                    • Tracey

                      No. Am not assuming gcsb involvement. Am assuming if this were clark or cunliffe you would be baying for their source.

                      Keep telling yourself the little rationalizations bm… dont want you finding out you are being duped daily and have been since about 2007.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Peters can go get bent.

                    I agree with BM (there’s an ice storm in hell apparently), Key has just burnt any chance of détente with Winston. Hmm, perhaps he thinks he’s Joffrey, not Littlefinger.

                    • BM

                      I think once he found out Peters had been dealing with Dot com any chance of a coalition was gone any way.

                      No trust, no coalition.

                    • mickysavage []

                      What will you do BM if Key does not rule Peters out, even after all of this?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Hmm. Key’s known that for ages: Peters has been gleefully rubbing Key’s nose in it. The narrative goes that Winnie has seen Dotcom’s proof of Key’s mendacity.

                      This attack on NZF and the Greens lends weight to that narrative.

                    • Tracey

                      I agree he has decided winston is a foe but you know thats not what I asked bm… hes doing a wayne mapp on me…

                    • Tracey

                      Peters hasnt been quiet about believing he has proof key lied.. so it cant be that…

                      Key doesnt require integrity in a partner but loyalty to the lies…

    • Tracey 9.3

      It would be frightening indeed if the pm spends time reading whaleoil.

      More frightening still that he would go public on something from a blog unless the blog was directly feeding him scuttlebutt.

      No right wing outrage at dirty politics? Used to be tgey said it was a sign of desperation.

      • David H 9.3.1

        Maybe he (Key) has people reading, and interacting (well getting caught out) on all blogs. Well those that count anyway.

  10. tricledrown 10

    JanM he didn’t get his dates wrong neoliberalism rise took place around them But when the Berlin Wall came down that was when their was no turning back.
    George H W Bush ” Now the Berlin wall has come down I promise you their will be a new world order ”
    Bush senior former CIA chief and president.
    The CIA are and have been our puppet masters for some time Now.
    Key and co Act Business round table Cis 5 eyes srylands BM are all part of a carefully orchestrated network who don’t want democracy.
    Economic Feudalism is their Goal.

  11. Draco T Bastard 11

    Gordon Campbell on smear tactics in politics

    Smears are the political equivalent of a hit and run. First comes the allegation that hints of skullduggery – Russel Norman and Winston Peters held “secret” meetings with Kim Dotcom! – and then comes the rebuttal. Unfortunately, by the time the rebuttals have been made, the spinmeisters will usually have hit the target and moved on. Patiently, one can explain the difference between the John Banks/John Key issues to do with Dotcom – which in Key’s case, involve admitted breaches of the law by the state’s security services. The questions at stake there – who said what to who, and when – are of substance. They have to do with alleged and/or admitted illegal behaviour by those holding the reins of power in central and local government. They entail culpable failures of judgment and oversight.

  12. Not a PS Staffer 12

    Russell Norman has done serious damage to the Green Party and he has damaged his own credibility as a potential coalition partnership leader with Labour.

    The act of visiting DotCom at his Coatesville palace was political stupidity of the highest form.

    If I was Cunliffe I’d tread very very warily with this stupid numpty. Russel Norman is a blind amateur.

    • Roflcopter 12.1

      It’s too late for that. The only way Labour get back in power is with the Greens…. and New Zealand know it.

    • grumpy 12.2

      Bullshit! Curran has visted there multiple time as have other Labour MPs. It might be a pre-requisite for a ministerial position to HAVE visited KDC.

      • mickysavage 12.2.1

        Citation needed. Go ahead Grumpy. Prove it.

        • MaxFletcher 12.2.1.1

          Curran has admitted she met him 4 times on twitter. Nothing about his house though

        • veutoviper 12.2.1.2

          Clare Curran tweeted last night “In my work, I’ve met @KimDotcom 4 times, including at public events. In NZ, it’s no crime to meet critics of the state.”

          Last night, there were many people tweeting whether or not they had met KDC, been to the mansion etc. KDC’s twitter site includes a few, including Clare’s and one from Grant Robertson.

          Note that contrary to Grumpy’s claim of Clare visiting the mansion multiple times, Clare makes no mention of visiting the mansion.

          EDIt – now see that MaxFletcher already posted Clare’s tweet.

          • Puckish Rogue 12.2.1.2.1

            To be fair sending CC out to KDC means nothing I mean I wouldn’t trust her to get fish n chips for dinner

            • AmaKiwi 12.2.1.2.1.1

              Nor would David Cunliffe trust her. He has much more reliable, low key people who could do such work for him.

              Just as Key is better off using spies (“detective services”) outside the police and GCSB. Aside from private contractors hired by Key’s friends, the Yanks could doing the spying on KDC and reporting to Key.

              To me, that is much more plausible.

              • Not a PS Staffer

                AmaKiwi, Russell Norman hailed a Taxi at Auckland Airport and said:

                “Take me to Kim DotCom’s big Palace out in Coatesville and spare the gas”!

                That is a 45 Km journey by SH1 or a 50 Km journey by SH16. That is a least $125.00 EACH WAY and $57 per hour waiting time. A $350+ gig for the Taxi driver!!!!

                The Taxi driver could have told many people about this generous present from Russell Norman!

                The trip suggests that it is possible Russell Norman went to see Kim DotCom on his own. Stupid if true. Kim DotCom has proven to be toxic to any politician who has met him. Any party leader should have ground well prepared and then have two witnesses in any engagement like this.

                By visiting DotCom at his Palace he put himself in a supplicant like position. Stupid stupid stupid for a Party leader wanting to talk turkey with a non-National who is at the baby steps of setting up a party!
                By not asking DotCom to come to Parliament in Wellington for the meeting Russell Norman suggests that he was playing subterfuge. If you want to play cloak and dagger you don’t hail a cab and asked to be taken to the most talked about house in NZ!

                Russell Norman’s behaviour shows him to be unfit for high office. He is a liability to anyone who engages with him. Labour should maintain a safe distance from this idiot.

                http://www.taxiautofare.com/nz/taxi-fare-card/Auckland-Coop-Taxis-fare

  13. Enough is Enough 13

    Mixing with Dotcom is dumb. It has a stench very similar to that when Brash mixed with the Bretheren.

    An enemy of the government does not automatically make that person an ally or friend of the opposition.

    The rights and wrongs of his extradition are irrelevant. He is attempting to use his considerable cash resourses to influence New Zealand politicians and the public. That is known as corruption in other circles.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 13.1

      I can recall Sir Bob Jones embarking on a very similar endeavour. He donates to political parties too by all accounts. ACT’s backers much?

    • AmaKiwi 13.2

      “He (Dotcom) is attempting to use his considerable cash resources to influence New Zealand politicians and the public. That is known as corruption in other circles.”

      What planet are you from? How about a reality check.

      Elections are fought with money.

  14. bad12 14

    Yes of course Slippery the Prime Minister denies that any politician is being ‘watched’ by any Government agency,

    And, of course with a straight face He can do so because Russell Norman and Winston Peters are simply part of the list of people the SIS, who just happen to (a),have a 24 hour watching brief on the Coatsville mansion of DotCom, and (b), have a 24 hour surveillance of DotCom Himself whenever He leaves the Coatsville residence, have gathered as part of that surveillance who have had personal contact with the internet millionaire,

    Slippery has just shot Himself in the foot again, He should obviously have learned to be more careful after the back-fire of the attack on Metiria Turei which exposed those accusing Mets of having the ‘lavish lifestyle’ were rudely exposed as fraudulent liars,

    The allegations having spread from Russell Norman, who the ‘wing-nuts’ fall all over themselves to hate might have made slight political capital for the PM trying to find the props to shore up Nationals sliding support,to Winston Peters who Has in 2 days played Slippery masterfully at His own game, simply gives Winston Peters a very fine and sharp rod which He will use to lash the PM mercilessly,

    On the surface of course this just looks like one large truckload of shit, all of which can be attributed to the fear and machinations of the Beehives 9th floor, being dumped upon the idea of a NZFirst/National coalition emanating from the 2014 election, but, that’s not a given knowing the nature of the game played by Peters,

    Slippery’s latest headlong dive into a large puddle of His own dung by playing fast and loose with the ‘surveillance state’ is laughable and more a suggestion that Slippery has conducted ‘a raid’ on the briefcases of the SIS sharing the contents,

    The pies to Brownlee and the literature kept by the PM Himself where His actions surrounding the perusal of such have both effected His eye-sight and what little is evident of His functioning intellect…

    • Puckish Rogue 14.1

      Oh please, John Key is not a member of the Greens or Labour so he has an answer ready to go but I do enjoy the way the Left try to move the focus from dodgy left (possibly corrupt) politicians to how did John Key know…

      Kind of like the Len Brown debacle, don’t focus on what Len Brown did wrong (and there was plenty) but focus on who leaked the information because thats the most important thing

      This is great fun 🙂

      • Tracey 14.1.1

        Does this mean you consider john banks to be corrupt?

      • bad12 14.1.2

        PR, perhaps you would like to start that one again from the top, your first sentence might make sense to a ‘wing-nut’ like you, but, i never studied gibberish nor ‘loony tunes’ at school so have no means of decyphering the intent of such a sentence,

        Dodgy, possibly corrupt???, how so, i see nothing amiss in Russell Norman approaching DotCom they are obviously both high profile public figures, and, the same can be said of Winston Peters,

        Corrupt, you obviously have no notion of what corruption is, if you cannot raise the testicular fortitude to directly, and, slanderously accuse Russell Norman or Winston Peters of a specific corrupt act you should actually either stick to your normal imbeciles whine or shut the fuck up completely…

        • Puckish Rogue 14.1.2.1

          Ok but only because you said so 🙂

          • framu 14.1.2.1.1

            for it to be corrupt you have to believe keys claim that norman offered to step in re: extradition

            there is no evidence of this, and considering that the greens position re the dot com case has been very consistant for a very long time it doesnt add up – and not once have they claimed they would step in

            its quite simple – consider that for the claimed deal to come about everyone involved, including the dot com camp, would have to first believe the the greens were going to get the minister of justice portfolio and that labour would let them get away with stopping the extradition

            do some basic logic – its a highly unlikely scenario and anyone with a shred of intellect would see that

            now you might not like the greens or dot com, but are you seriously saying that everyone is to thick to figure that out?

            • Tracey 14.1.2.1.1.1

              doesnt it make sense that the greens might want to talk to dotcom given his platform, such as it is, is stopping privacy invasion etc…

              Is the suggestion that he offered to overturn any extradition if dotcom withdrew from politics?

              I’m surprised Dotcom still thinks he can buy pollies after his failure with banks.

              • framu

                “Is the suggestion that he offered to overturn any extradition if dotcom withdrew from politics? ”

                thats my point – that suggestion is only coming from key, but if you think about it its a silly thing to try and offer and its a silly thing to think can be offered – especially if it was coming from a minor party

                how key knows what was discussed is of course another issue that hasnt been asked of him

                politicians meeting anyone isnt a big deal, and the greens saying “it would be nice if you didnt screw us for your own PR goals” isnt a big deal – but everything after that is pure speculation from key and a speculation so daft you would have to be some what foolish to think it has any possibility of coming about

    • srylands 14.2

      Good grief.

      • Tracey 14.2.1

        the football taken away again Charlie Brown?

      • bad12 14.2.2

        Yes SSLands, ”Good Grief” is reported to be the first words of your mummy upon realizing exactly what it was she had carried and so painfully given birth to for those 9 long months…

        • srylands 14.2.2.1

          You can’t back that up with data. I can report that Good Grief was the sentiment (or in some cases lots of eye rolling) when I shared 3 samples of your posts with 7 colleages yesterday.

          But you stick with your story about my mother. I know you are far from evidence based.

          • Tracey 14.2.2.1.1

            God,your colleagues must be thrilled with that… 10 minutes of their lives they will never get back. Slow day in the office? You needed some validation?

          • bad12 14.2.2.1.2

            Naughty SSLands, you know how your boss feels about you using His computer to make your abysmal and absurd comments online during the time they employ you to count other peoples money for them,

            Get back to work you indentured little peasant, at your age you cannot afford to be given the kick from your current employment as the only other means of you paying off your other enslavement, the mortgage to the bank, would be as an adviser on how clients can rip the tax system, something i am sure you are well equipped to sell with your prior knowledge of that system…

    • AmaKiwi 14.3

      “Yes of course Slippery the Prime Minister denies that any politician is being ‘watched’ by any Government agency. And, of course with a straight face.”

      False! Wrong!

      Key said it with a bright RED face.

      “Why are you blushing, Prime Minister?”

      Me thinks something is rotten on Planet Key.

      • bad12 14.3.1

        AnnaKiwi, False, Wrong???, you choose to nitpick over part of a sentence which was part of a paragraph???,

        Examine the language, blushing by definition has nothing to do with ‘a straight face’, a straight face is where the person making a statement is obviously bullshitting while deliberately keeping their facial expression bland or neutral in the physical sense of being able to suppress any tic or smile,

        Blushing of course is the result of the effort of keeping that straight face where the effort of suppressing that tic, smile, or outright laughter forces blood to the face…

      • karol 14.3.2

        The whole performance by Key on the Dotcom topic in the video, also reminded me of that “Why are you blushing” exchange between Dotcom and the PM. Key is highly competitive and doesn’t like to lose – this is personal for him. He will do whatever it takes not to be bested by the big guy.

        I couldn’t make out if Key’s face was red for just the first bit of this recent video, or if his face was just summer red through all the topics discussed in the vid.

  15. ianmac 15

    Mr Key answers question re Mr Peters’ visits. Notice the big grin throughout. Looked a bit odd for someone who had nothing to hide.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/video.cfm?c_id=280&gal_cid=280&gallery_id=140903

    • veutoviper 15.1

      Amazing behaviour – over the top overconfidence. It leds me to suspect that the particular information about Peter’s visits did not come from any of the security agencies per se on this occasion (see my comment at 16). But that is not to say that the spy agencies are not keeping tabs on KDC. Key’s performance almost confirms that IMO.

      And Key’s behaviour changed totally when the questions moved on to the Countdown situation.

    • Puckish Rogue 15.2

      Hes smiling because he knows he has nothing to hide or that it can’t be proven he did anything wrong, either way its a win to JK (again) and a lose to the Left (again)

      • One Anonymous Bloke 15.2.1

        Unless the Left helps nudge the narrative in the direction of “it can’t be proven…”

        Or nudges the narrative in the direction of the fact that (by his own admission) the Prime Minister is watching you.

        Or some other third thing like the National Party sells New Zealand legislation to its clients, or clings to market failure, or lacks competence (that would be my favourite, since the body of evidence is so compelling).

      • fender 15.2.2

        “Hes [sic] smiling because he knows he has nothing to hide…….”

        All that tells me is that you’ve never had children.

      • AmaKiwi 15.2.3

        “He (Key) is smiling because he knows he has nothing to hide or that it can’t be proven he did anything wrong, either way its a win to JK (again) and a lose to the Left (again).”

        I have rarely heard such nonsense. Key revealed he has information that can only come from spying. Who spied? We don’t know. But we know they spy for John Key, who also controls our government spies.

        How can that be “win” for anyone boggles the mind.

  16. veutoviper 16

    The waters get murkier and murkier.

    It seems rumours of Peters three visits to KDC have been circulating for some time (WO?). Then last Friday mention of these three visits was made in the Herald’s gossip column.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/television/news/article.cfm?c_id=339&objectid=11197715

    The DimPost has a post up about this.

    http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2014/02/13/alternate-theory/

    Rumours (via Twitter etc) are apparently circulating that there are leaks from “the Mansion” … This would tie with the leak via WO of the Bradbury paper re the Internet Party a few weeks agon.

    • Puckish Rogue 16.1

      No no you’ve got it all wrong, see what happened was John Key directed the GCSB to spy on Winston Peters and thats how he knows

      • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1.1

        Doubt it. Key says he hasn’t used official channels, but that his source (singular) is always right. I think he’s telling the truth.

        It’s a revealing statement though. The Prime Minister maintains a personal network of informants outside of official channels. Well duh, of course he should, but the fact is that boasting about it makes him look like a lightweight.

        • Puckish Rogue 16.1.1.1

          A lightweight that hangs out with Obama, gets invited to the G20 and has seen off Clark, Goff, Shearer and probably Cunliffe

          Yep hes a lightweight

          • One Anonymous Bloke 16.1.1.1.1

            Yes, he’s the junior partner in those relationships, but that isn’t really what I meant by “lightweight” – I meant that he has to show off in a most unseemly Aaron Gilmore way – the need to be seen to be in command runs strong in this one.

            That’s why I aimed my criticism at his boasting. Didn’t you pick up on that?

        • veutoviper 16.1.1.2

          +1 OAG. Key’s performance in that interview was very revealing and “boasting” was the word I was looking for but could not find when writing my comment at 15.1 above.

        • Anne 16.1.1.3

          It isn’t just State run security agencies who conduct surveillance, eaves dropping etc.on individuals. It’s well known big business tycoons are not above doing it too. In their case its illegal of course but they are allowed to get away with it. In fact, it’s not unusual for them to hire former spies to do their dirty work for them. You can bet an arm and a leg Key and co. know where to go for covert assistance when they want to access information without using State collected data.

          • Anne 16.1.1.3.1

            Further to my 16.1.1.3.

            Haven’t heard what Winston P is actually saying yet, but remember the Winebox saga? That was a very real example of unlawful surveillance by well known business tycoons who were involved in that affair. Wonder if there is a bit of utu going on here. Peters ain’t popular with those tycoons and some are still around in NZ.

            • PapaMike 16.1.1.3.1.1

              Most of the “Tycoons” in the Winebox affair have left New Zealand, some now living in Switzerland and London, or have died – it was some years ago.

        • AmaKiwi 16.1.1.4

          “informants” or paid spies?

        • framu 16.1.1.5

          “but that his source (singular) is always right”

          not only that – key has said “and it turns out he was right” – ie: key didnt actually know if it was correct when he went running to the media

    • One Anonymous Bloke 16.2

      HUMINT, not SIGINT.

    • bad12 17.1

      Fair enough commentary from Vernon Small, i see Russell’s comments surrounding the likely/unlikely extradition of DotCom to the US as not a mistake of content but more a mistake of form,

      Knowing what i and we all know of the States illegal actions surrounding the ‘DotCom case’ if i was a Judge in any Court of Law i would simply throw the whole lot into the dustbin and tll the Crown to come back when it can act in a lawful manner,

      i say that as a human who sees it as an obvious that where the State has used illegal means to gather evidence against any citizen then this must make any case that State attempts to make null and void,

      That was Russell Norman’s one little mistake of form, speaking as a human it is obvious that Russell is of the same opinion as i am,

      Unfortunately politics would demand of Russell that He always has to be aware when talking in public of the fact that He has to put aside somewhat His humanity and always think of the political ramifications of what He says…

  17. burt 18

    It’s ironic that the three parties who have made the most noise about big money in elections are all found to have been rather cosy (and secretive about it ) with a billionaire who wants a change of government. Funny also that Winston seems to be the focus for this when he has been proven in the past to have been dishonest about declaring donations and had a secret trust – the exact things he accused National of.

    Labour, The Green Party & Winston First have so much egg on their faces over this that it’s not surprising they are now trying to make a deal of how Key knew – the real issue is they are having secret meetings with a billionaire who wants a change of government.

    But sure – how did Key know – lets play the diversion game !

    • fender 18.1

      Key also knows about you and that other donkey having liaisons.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 18.2

      Labour have been cosy with Dotcom?

      [citation needed]

      As for the Greens and Winston, citations are also needed to establish that “meeting with = cosy with”, because that would mean that the Syrian “rebels” are cosy with the Opthalmologist.

      • felix 18.2.1

        …and applying the same logic – because we know burt dislikes partisanship – who does that make John Key “cosy” with?

        • burt 18.2.1.1

          Shall I spell it out. Key was his usual slippery self when questioned if he had had meetings with Dotcom. He denied knowing about him even which was absolutely laughable. I’m pretty comfortable that Key had meetings with Dotcom, as did Norman, what’s his name labour leader and jolly old forgetful Winston.

          I’m laughing my bloody head off though at all these hacks who have bagged Key for being slippery defending Winston’s privacy.

          Where do you stand Felix ?

          • felix 18.2.1.1.1

            Sorry burt that’s not very clear at all.

            Nobody has bagged Key for requesting that his meetings with Dotcom remain private; they’ve bagged him because he (appears to have) systematically lied about them ever happening.

            Why are you laughing about that?

    • framu 18.3

      “the real issue is they are having secret meetings with a billionaire who wants a change of government. ” come in mr gibbs your time is up

  18. ScottGN 19

    What I’m struggling to understand is what reasons could the PM have for wanting to push this issue back into the limelight? I mean he spent most of last year either dodging questions on this or being forced to offer abject apologies for the incompetent and possibly illegal actions of his own spy agencies (and the police). Also I suppose that any info from GCSB or whatever agency would be provided to the PM via a third party which would then give everyone plausible deniability?

    • Colonial Viper 19.1

      Quite possibly the specific issue is of secondary importance to that of confirming to opposition politicians (and to KDC) that Key has intel and is not afriad to use it in an election year.

    • Tracey 19.2

      The recent revelation that relevant gcsb files have been “archived” ? Given key a false sense of security?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 19.2.1

        The NSA will be required to keep the files (since let’s face it, the GCSB has to apply to them for access). If any deletion has occurred at this end it is entirely a local matter.

        Five eyes. Not four eyes with one that goes to sleep.

  19. well I never 20

    Huge difference between being called on meeting with people when something is to be gained, like giving them a top job, or receiving vast sums of money, but really, do politicians need to be spied on for simply meeting with people?
    It is a privacy issue, just like journalists swipe cards and phone records being checked, no-one can operate in a climate of McCarthyism, very scary

    • One Anonymous Bloke 20.1

      It’s a classic paradox.

      Say, for example, there arose a Prime Minister who sold New Zealand legislation to overseas business interests. Would they not be a suitable national security surveillance target?

      Aren’t the spies supposed to help protect us against double agents?

      • burt 20.1.1

        I think you need to acknowledge that the spies serve the government not the people – that’s why we need to vote based on more than who will spend more of own own money on us/for us.

        We had an MP arrange tax cuts for the racing industry once, then a year later it came out in the wash that said MP had accepted donations from a wealthy racing family and not declared them – these types of ‘policy for cash’ people must be kept from ever being in politics again.

      • Colonial Viper 20.1.2

        Assuming that government spies are loyal to the ordinary citizenry, and not to the elite power structures.

        Strike that, when you look at the behaviour of the UK, US, German, French services it’s pretty clear which side they are on. And its not the plebs.

        • burt 20.1.2.1

          Indeed, In serving the government they should be serving the people – but when the government is self serving – they are only serving the government. The challenge is getting partisan people to look objectively at their own party of preference and call for them to be as accountable on such matters as they say “the other team” should be.

  20. Flip 21

    What makes these meetings secret? Did they go in disguise in the middle of the night? Exactly how Winnie would disguise himself boggles the mind. Did they tell people they were off to the beach for the day or eating lunch at the time? Will there be some secret rendezvous in the future to avoid scrutiny? Have they developed a sophisticated code, dead drops, secret bank accounts? Who is the mole giving information to the Nats? The Internet Party will need to do an internal investigation to uncover the traitor and do a sweep for bugs, increase its security, release the hounds. So many questions what a great diversion. This is the media at its finest feeding the public’s insatiable appetite for gossip. Probing for all the details. Are they going to stake out KDC mansion and eat burgers and coke in their car? Will they employ sophisticated intelligence gathering equipment? Binoculars, telephoto lenses for proof, leave microphones and record devices around, question staff with the aid of that truth revealing drug coffee (perhaps tea would be better), diverting the guard dogs with chewy tidbits (Oh right Key is doing that to the media). It is just like the movies.

  21. well I never 22

    or maybe there is a more benign solution, JK is, in fact a reptilian shapeshifter, and it wasn’t KDC Winston met, but JK in disguise

    • burt 22.1

      Based on previous form – If Winston starts accusing Key of this then we can know with 100% certainty that Winston is.

  22. Ad 23

    Bad luck no conspiracy – Key categorically rules out using the security agencies.

    Far more prosaic: Coatesville is a tight community, wall to wall Nats, and many of them have contacts to the PM.

    • well I never 23.1

      oh come on Ad, you are saying it’s down to curtain twitching, although come to think of it, Nats do talk like my granny (3 generations ago thinking)

      • Ad 23.1.1

        Coatesville is the Stepford Wives club of the Waitemata Trust.
        Key’s intel empire in Auckland’s north is better than anything gcsb could even dream of.

      • idlegus 23.1.2

        ha, c’mon, if key had said “peters has been to see dotcom” that might have been believable, but he specifically said “three times”, & that turns out to be three times in two years. key couldn’t help himself, he’s losing his political nous, there’s more to come i am sure.

    • McFlock 23.2

      lol
      You think key making a categorical statement is a reliable indicator of the facts?

      Basically, from now on he’s got a secret that he refuses to say. If he ever accuses someone of lying, or not being ready with the truth, the response is “that’s rich from someone who refuses to say how he tracks the routine activities of opposition MPs”.

    • Colonial Viper 23.3

      Far more prosaic: Coatesville is a tight community, wall to wall Nats, and many of them have contacts to the PM.

      Odd the PM claims to have never heard of Dotcom before, then 😈

      • burt 23.3.1

        Exactly. That nails it really. See this is the problem, partisan people unquestioningly accept what their leaders say. How many National party muppets are sitting around now believing that other National loyal people saw or heard and passed that message on.

        Dotcom has no case to answer here. All standing politicians who have been dishonest to the public and the house about their meetings with Dotcom have a case to answer. The reality is that’s all MPs ( or their staff ) who have meet Dotcom because none of them have been straight up about it from the get go.

        • well I never 23.3.1.1

          as long as they tell us when they give people they know privately a job (excluding other potential candidates) or if they receive vast sums of money from them, I don’t care who they meet…it’s a free country?

          • burt 23.3.1.1.1

            Then you have no issues with Key being less than upfront about his meetings with Dotcom then ?

            • karol 23.3.1.1.1.1

              Key’s obfuscations re-Dotcom related to surveillance, court cases and illegalities – possible collusions with NSA – totally different from MPs talking to residents about their issues and concerns.

              • burt

                karol

                Given Winston initially called to kick Dotcom out then changed his tune, presumably after meeting him and discussing the same things. How is it different, they are both elected MP’s.

                • Tracey

                  Key has arguably committed deceit in relation to a serious secret unit in NZ. A unit who can do some stuff, or not, with a nod from the PM. No genuine oversight. If you can’t see how that is different to meeting with dotcom I can’t help you.

                  For all his faults, and I am sure he has many, Winston has been consistent on one thing, trying to root out coverups. From the winebox to Key’s denials of knowing of Dotcom to possible misuse of secret service and their information. This would be right up winston’s alley.

                  In the whole Glen/Peters affair no one suggested Winston ever meeting with Glen was wrong.

      • Ad 23.3.2

        Yes, i’d allow him strategic deniability on that one

      • Tracey 23.3.3

        touche

        stepford wives camped outside dotcom’s residence on the offchance for 2 years… think that’s the most implausable explanation so far. remember it is someone who has told him stuff before…

    • Murray Olsen 23.4

      Coatesville can’t be all that tight, seeing how Key never found out that an oversized foreign billionaire with a penchant for publicity had set himself up in a mansion there. Can’t have it both ways, Ad.

  23. Anne 24

    Key has a network of informants which he probably began cultivating even before he became leader of the National Party. That is a given. He even put one of them in charge of the GCSB. He doesn’t have to rely on the State spies for his information. Most of the info. would reach him through a variety of conduits – both electronic as well as human sources. He semi -jokingly alluded to his top drawer being full of info ‘people’ had given him. It’s more like a very solid safe – hidden behind a picture on his office wall? 🙂

    I’m inclined to believe that light-hearted comment was really a veiled threat to certain individuals and one of them was probably Dotcom.

    A truly nasty bastard who would stoop to anything in order to hold on to his power.

    • well I never 24.1

      As a 10 yr old he worked out that he needed to learn golf to get rich, a truly strategic, ambitious, sharp and determined young man. Sad he put this all into his only obvious value of having a good time and getting rich, regardless of others. A truly vacuous individual.

    • greywarbler 24.2

      What’s on that picture Anne? Is it old-fashioned classical like The Laughing Cavalier, new modernism The Scream, Mona Lisa and her knowing smile…
      Possibly Dick Frizzell’s painting (in reverse for Jokeyhen) Tiki to Mickey
      http://www.prints.co.nz/page/fine-art/CTGY/Kiwiana

      Or perhaps some Art prints through Antony Ellis, they supply to television, films yhat sounds very me thinks Johnny.
      http://blog.prints.co.nz/2010/07/vintage-new-zealand-posters-from-nz.html

      • Anne 24.2.1

        Nah… it’ll be a picture of his gated mansion in Hawaii complete with a few coconut trees and some flax bushes. (Do flax bushes grow in Hawaii?) Anyway it’ll be unsophisticated, vision-less and lacking any artistic qualities – just like himself.

        • greywarbler 24.2.1.1

          I know – it will be that picture of him emerging like a taniwha from his swimming pool, hair slick like an old hollywood actor brylcreem’d down, and with his nice looking bach (mansion) at the back of the pic. And that smug wouldn’t you like to be me, well you can’t because you’ll never be as smart as me – look. (My impression.)

        • veutoviper 24.2.1.2

          Anne, maybe it is this old school photo of John Key – bottom left. LOL. Cannot believe it is our PM.

          http://t.co/hWNXaXk5NV

          Found this on Twitter yesterday. Tweeted by https://twitter.com/hdpaNEWS on Feb10.

      • Tracey 24.2.2

        dogs playing pool

  24. xtasy 25

    The SOURCE of the information that Key got about Peters’ visits to Dotcom may be close to Dotcom!

    Remember Pat Gowers piece on TV3 last night:

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Dotcom-brain-fade-spreads-to-Opposition/tabid/1607/articleID/331969/Default.aspx

    “Dotcom told 3 News today he’s faced threats of blackmail to shut down his party but wouldn’t give further details.

    He’s split with his bodyguard and right-hand man Wayne Tempero, and other security staff have left too. Dotcom says it’s amicable and that Mr Tempero has signed a confidentiality agreement.

    Meanwhile, New Zealand First leader Winston Peters is still keeping his visits confidential.

    “Look I saw your article last night. It is a crock of crap,” says Mr Peter.

    “He’s been there three times,” says Mr Key.”

    Now if Gower is right with Tempero and other security staff leaving Dotcom, what is the reason for that? Is Dotcom under financial pressures, so they did not get paid? OR has one perhaps disclosed something very confidential, and therefore has been “sacked”, along with others, who may have been tied in somehow?

    Wayne Tempero was working for Dotcom for many years, and seemed to be very loyal. Perhaps somehow he or another staff member whispered something to Rachel Glucina, that they were not authorised to?

    I doubt that Key would use GCSB info, even if he had it, and then make his claims. He must be sure of having his back covered. Also now knowing about his adversary Dotcom living in his electorate, Key and his electorate office will surely be keeping a close watch and their ears tipped on Dotcom and what goes on in Coatesville!

    That is my tip re the source!

    • Colonial Viper 25.1

      Wayne Tempero was working for Dotcom for many years, and seemed to be very loyal. Perhaps somehow he or another staff member whispered something to Rachel Glucina, that they were not authorised to?

      Or Tempero made security recommendations to Dotcom which Dotcom refused to follow, and in refusing, Tempero felt compromised in his ability to keep Dotcom and his family safe.

      Regardless, its a big problem for KDC.

      • burt 25.1.1

        So the big issue though, do we accept our politicians secretly visiting exiled billionaires with political aspirations ?

      • burt 25.1.2

        Don’t get me wrong CV, our MP’s can meet whoever they want, that’s their right. But like I said above, none have been upfront about their involvement. Once KDC made his political aspirations public, they as politicians had an obligation to be honest and complete in the house about it. None of them were. It’s a disgrace.

        • Colonial Viper 25.1.2.1

          Huh?

          You want MPs to make an announcement in the House every single time they meet with some random person who has political aspirations??? What?

          • burt 25.1.2.1.1

            No, but when questioned they should answer truthfully. The conventions of parliament do still require questions to be answered truthfully don’t they? Or did when throw that out after all the privileges committee could do for misleading the house was slap old man Winston on the wrist.

            • framu 25.1.2.1.1.1

              “No, but when questioned they should answer truthfully.”

              pretty sure they did – i havent seen anyone trying to say they didnt meet with KDC

            • David H 25.1.2.1.1.2

              Burt said…… No, but when questioned they should answer truthfully. The conventions of parliament do still require questions to be answered truthfully don’t they?

              Pity no one told Key and co about that. Honesty, Key don’t know the meaning of the word!

      • PapaMike 25.1.3

        Heard it was a money problem with Tempero – not sure about the other four security guards leaving though – could also be money. Tempero believed setting up his own Security Company and the others may have followed him.

        • veutoviper 25.1.3.1

          Papamike, the source for a number of your comments today seem to be today’s The Diary collumn in the Herald by Rachel Glucina.

          Why don’t you say so and provide a link, then people won’t keep asking for your source (eg Tracey at 2.2.4.1)

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=11201739

          After Lorde and her pimples selfie, Rachel provides more detail re Peters and others visits to the KDC Mansion – including Clare Curran’s two visits. (Rachel’s column last Friday was where she reported that Peters had been there three times. She had also earlier reported Norman’s visits.)

          Rachel seems to have a lot of detail as to what goes on at the Mansion and her column today goes into detail about Tempero’s departure last October and the departure of four more security people last weekend.

          As Karol has also obviously discovered (see 32 below), the ongoing tweets between MSM journalists and others (including Hooten, Cactus Kate, Graeme Edgeler etc) are fascinating and revealing. And a source of information, speculation etc well before it hits the presses. It can become quite obsessive as I have discovered in the last few days!

          For example, today Rachel Glucina has tweeted* that the new PR person for the Interenet party has an interesting side job – Natural Burials. Presumably this person
          http://www.naturalburials.co.nz/index.php?page=whoWeAre

          * https://twitter.com/RachelGlucinaNZ

          So where does Rachel really fit into the picture? Where does she get her information?

          • Murray Olsen 25.1.3.1.1

            Yuck. I looked at her twitter feed. What a load of incestuous gossiping wannabes. Priests and priestesses of the cult of Key, who all delight in the thought that they might know something kept from the common people. Yuck. Hell would be a party with that lot as guests.

            • veutoviper 25.1.3.1.1.1

              Well said, Murray O. Even showers have not made me feel clean over the last few days since i have found the ” inner circle” on Twitter. I am hoping that it will explode or implode. Don’t care which. But these are the ….. who are trying to shape our (NZ’s) future?

              Have had to take time out today.. Being a F, retail therapy has helped although I cannot afford it. But now have almost finished negotiating to add a new female parrot to my menagerie to ease the pain of the death six months ago of the partner of one of my flock. The latter has more integrity, compassion, manners etc than the whole of that ‘inner circle’ and the current government put together.

  25. Tinshed 26

    Jeez people, I get that you think John Key is a corrupt, Nixon-esk, Tory, devil-incarnate money dealing rich prick who would sell his grandmother for a mere shilling, but is what the Left has been reduced to? Personality and conspiracy-based politics? There was a time when the Left had the intellectual high-ground and could mount an argument based on a deep understanding of the inherent contradictions of capitalist system. Now all I can see is a belief that John Key (Shon-Key, geddit?) used the GSCB to gain and use information on Kim Dotcom for political purposes. What fantasy world do you live in? Jeez, it is so frustrating to see such a paucity of intellectual rigour and analysis that many of you are reduced to such delusionist fantasies. Seriously, how many voters in New Zealand in the second decade of the 21st century think like this? I’ll tell you what, not many. Please, for the love of the great Socialist tradition I know of, stop this personality-based dislike of John Key and articulate a vision of a better and more decent society.

    • Tracey 26.1

      “Personality and conspiracy-based politics? ”

      Been asleep during the last two weeks while Tolley, Collins, and key have played personality based politics”?

      Can you show me your proof that Labour or Greens have been indulging in it during this past two weeks?

      methinks you doth protest on behalf of socialism too much.

      • framu 26.1.1

        im calling concern trool on that one

        • Tracey 26.1.1.1

          that’s the phrase. I couldnt recall what the official name for that was.

        • Enough is Enough 26.1.1.2

          He has a point

          • Tracey 26.1.1.2.1

            which is???

            that people on a forum survey the possibilities of a piece of political play? because labour, to my knowledge, and the greens, haven’t stopped int he last two weeks despite personality politics by tolley, collins and Key.

          • framu 26.1.1.2.2

            he might have a point – but his whole rant is looking at only one question raised of many, and the most extreme question at that. Hes also ignoring the rest of the debate re: is it really that big a deal once we ignore JKs unproven shouting

            its like saying “yeah but that guy shat in their washing machine” when everyone else is talking about what happened at the party in general

        • veutoviper 26.1.1.3

          +1. And PG has put Tinshed’s comment up on KB in the “Where Key got his information from” post, calling it “some sense from Tinshed on The Standard”.

          PG has now past the 21,000 mark on comments on KB. They’re welcome to him.

          Now shower time.

  26. Wayne McIndoe 27

    I would be asking some hard questions about what Key and Obama discussed during their round of golf recently, ie the TPP, that agreement which we are been suckered into has more bearing on NZs future than whether Peters and Dotcom have a meeting – come on media get your prioitities right

  27. RedBaronCV 28

    So where’s the money coming from to pay for Key’s private surveillanvce network?

    • AmaKiwi 28.1

      You don’t think there are individuals, corporations, and business groups that are dreading the prospect of a Labour/Green government.

      They write it off as a business expense.

  28. RedRobin 29

    “The spies have always laced their briefings to the Prime Minister with political titbits,”

    Source? Link or you are bullshitting.

  29. burt 30

    I think we need a snap election. 6 weeks of this utter madness where the politicians are running around denying stuff they have been doing themselves while accusing others of it. Calling for others to resign for telling lies and then when all caught to be lying decide nobody has to resign and we should all move on.

    • AmaKiwi 30.1

      First we need to hear from the Ed Snowden files. There have been embarrassing revelations about the other four eyes, but not yet NZ. I am waiting for some juicy revelations just before our election.

      With Kim Dotcom’s trial and Ed Snowden waiting in the wings, it could be a year of delightful surprises.

      • chris73 30.1.1

        You do know its been nearly a decade of “waiting for revelations” which never, ever arrive about JK

        Seriously there no revelations out there, if there were they would have come up long ago but hey if it makes you happy keep on believing

        • Tracey 30.1.1.1

          No one said they would be about ket Chris, but about NZ…. under his watch and probably under Clark’s.

  30. Jenny 31

    ““Where did John Key get his information that Winston visited DotCom three times?” Most likely source it seems to me is the GCSB”
    Mike Smith

    Tom Scott offers an alternative scenario….LOL!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/blogs/opinion/cartoons/6736460/Tom-Scott-and-others

    • Tracey 31.1

      LOLOLOL

    • ianmac 31.2

      Perhaps that is why Mr Key looked so weird during his denial interview with media yesterday when they were asking how did he know. He must have been bursting with pride at how he spent his time with his binocular. Me! Me! Me!

  31. karol 32

    An editor at RadioLive has recently tweeted this:

    So the PM just more or less admitted @Whaleoil was his source on Winston Peters’ visit to the Dotcom mansion. They speak regularly.

    And this:

    @CactusKate2 @Whaleoil no smear. He rang Slater.

    And this:

    Mr Key says he speaks to “lots” of bloggers regularly. Obviously Whale, @dpfdpf. anyone else wanna fess up?

    Gotta say, Key has never called me. I’m gutted that he rates me as so insignificant!

    • karol 32.1

      And a reply to above radio live editor, Jessica Williams:

      @mizjwilliams @dpfdpf I imagine he doesn't mean @publicaddress, @gtiso, The Standard, the Daily Blog …

      • karol 32.1.1

        Plausible deniability: GCSG/SIS to PM office; PM staffer to gossip columnist; gossip columnist to WO; WO to PM; to “I didn’t get the info from the surveillance services or the police.”

        Edit: It seems now WO has a mention of the twitter conversations on its/his site, and is citing “The Standard” as a source!

        What sort of circular shell game is this? Smoke & mirrors.

        • Anne 32.1.1.1

          WO has a mention of the twitter conversations on its/his site, and is citing “The Standard” as a source!

          He’s confusing informed/educated guessing with fact. Let’s face it he wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.

          • karol 32.1.1.1.1

            Well, he maybe just picked up on my copy of tweets as above- though the tweets included in his post includes only one I copied, and a couple of others. But he has his source as “The Standard” at the bottom of the post.

            I’m still trying to find a direct source as evidence of Jessica William’s claim.

      • Tracey 32.1.2

        have you email jessica williams and asked?

    • Tracey 32.2

      Pm regularly speaks to bloggers??????? Did key ask Slater for proof? And what was the source of the proof? Or does slater have people followed? I thought Slater had no money?

      C’mon, even Key’s supporters must see it’s a sad day when PM has time to read and ring bloggers, particularly Slater?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 32.3

      Makes a big deal of refusing to deal with Winston Peters. Deals with Cameron Slater. I wonder if they talk about ferals.

  32. tricledrown 33

    Tempero is a nasty little Narcissit.

  33. tricledrown 34

    Tempero is a nasty little Narcissit.

  34. Puckish Rogue 35

    Most likely source it seems to me is the GCSB. I think Winston may have a point about his right to privacy.

    – Yeah so it ends up being a gossip columnist (Rachel Glucina) and NZs most read, most influential political blog (Whaleoil)

    • Tracey 35.1

      are you saying slater was following peters, or someone who followed peters told slater?

      • Puckish Rogue 35.1.1

        Well it must be the GCSB then (yeah thats sarcasm)

        • Tracey 35.1.1.1

          was the question too hard?

          • Puckish Rogue 35.1.1.1.1

            Most likely someone who used to work for KDC is telling whats happened and someones passed it on to either Rachel or Whaleoil

            So all the lefties on here breathlessly hoping JK was using the GCSB are hopefully feeling pretty dumb right about now

            • McFlock 35.1.1.1.1.1

              So how was key so sure it was true?

              • Puckish Rogue

                Must be the GCSB, its the only possible answer

                • McFlock

                  Not at all, but it is one of the few reasons key would be reluctant to say where he gets his information about the activities of his political opponents.

                  Even if he received the information in a perfectly legitimate manner, his behaviour makes him look like a blackmailer and sleaze merchant.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    No it doesn’t it looks like he reads newspapers and probably checked out the veracity of the information

                    Doesn’t change that Labour and the Greens are now compromised over this

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Peters and Norman meet with KDC and this says what about Labour?

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      Don’t forget Curran and Ardern and thats only the ones who’ve ‘fessed up, there’ll probably be more

                    • McFlock

                      What sources did he use to “check veracity”. The only way to “check veracity” is additional sources, because he’d be a fucking moron to believe gossip columns and WO.

                      So how did he know the unadvertised movements of his political opponents? Why is he so coy about simply stating how he got the information? Don’t we have a right to know if the PM is deploying the state security agencies against his political opponents?

                      MPs visiting one of the most significant figures in current events at the moment is not surprising. What’s surprising is that the PM apparently runs secret surveillance on his opponents.

                    • karol

                      MPs meeting well known people is not a crime.

                      You really are stretching it PR.

                      Ardern meet KDC at a public occasion.

                      She tweeted:

                      @BillyRalston @Whaleoil @clarecurranmp @KimDotcom we were at the franklin road lights at the same time if that’s what you mean!

                      Curran ? Who cares who she meets. Will she still be an MP come the end of the year?

                      Righties really must be stuck for spin if this is all they can come up with.

                    • McFlock

                      the other thing is that curran’s associate comms and IT spokesperson? And isn’t KDC an internet industry player and a possible new transpacific fibre cable competitor?

                      Personalities aside, seems common sense the two should meet.

                      Frankly, it would be remiss of whichever nactoid is IT minister to not have talked with kdc about the sector.

                  • xtasy

                    “his behaviour makes him look like a blackmailer and sleaze merchant…”

                    Is this anything new in the behaviour of JK??? He has been involved in sleaze most the time (behind the scenes), but has the incredible skill to look totally innocent, unblemished and a like a “credible” politician.

                    At least he now admits he regularly talks with “bloogers” of the types of Whaleoil! So guess what he may have been up to over the last 5 years, and how important the Whale’s role has been in keeping the jerk in power.

                    • McFlock

                      true, but I reckon he’s fluffed it a bit this time – blushing, evasive, “I don’t have to say”, and it involves possible long term spying or keeping tabs on his opponents rather than the occasional scandal “dropped in his lap”, as it were.

                      He fucked it with the “three times” lark – even once would have done it, and he could have dragged out further meetings in the ensuing debate. And that once could have been someone passing in a car who recognised peters’ car pulling in. Coming out with all three means ongoing tabs kept by someone, whom key refuses to name or even indicate the legitimacy of the way they obtained the info.

                      Losing his mojo.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      +1

                      “I have lost count of how many times my constituents have approached me on this matter, but I’m sure the Prime Minister has a tally.”

                    • xtasy

                      Yes, I agree re the “3 times” comment, as that is information that one does not get by “coincidence”, like from hearsay from some odd witnesses, who may have seen or heard something around the vicinity.

                      It makes it sound and look, as if he was absolutely sure about the frequency, the number of times, and that Peters went to see Dotcom. That is information not gathered by coincidence and so it must come from a totally reliable source.

                      Whaleoil will only have got the info due to being a core gossip and info gatherer, from other sources.

                      I still doubt that it was the GCSB, but we will never know for sure, as these matters will never be publicly revealed and discussed. It will be certain that the GCSB and SIS continue their “watch” of Dotcom, so they will know more than anyone else, possibly also working closely with police.

                      Dotcom seems to have been a bit “naive” on this, being a bit on a “high” with his legal team achieving what they did. As a new and smart migrant, he will know some stuff about how New Zealand agencies work, but he will still not really know how all encompassing they work in their surveillance activities.

                      But re this info, I suspect the source to be close to Dotcom himself. His wife will be one of the four who may know about Peters’ visits, but she will never reveal such stuff, given her discrete manner and loyalty, then there will be at least one or two of Dotcom’s security staff, Dotcom himself, Winston himself, and nobody else, unless Peters was driven there by a chauffeur or taxi driver.

                      We can narrow the circles, and we can suspect that Key may have got a “double check” confirmed by Ian Fletcher, as his old school buddy.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      From the ODT:

                      There are suspicions of a link between the number of questions being asked around Mr Dotcom and the conclusion the Opposition is seeking political favours from the man who has promised to start the Internet Party – but then added that he would not run in the election if the polling is less than the 5% MMP threshold (followed up by stating the party would be a contender in the election).

                      Parliamentary records show Labour MP Trevor Mallard has asked 132 questions regarding Mr Dotcom, New Zealand First leader Winston Peters 82, Labour MP David Shearer 36, deputy Labour leader Grant Robertson 17 and Green co-leader Russel Norman 13.

                      But please by all means focus on how did JK know? (I mean how did John Key know now that the GCSB have been ruled out)

                    • xtasy

                      Pukish Rogue at 03.55 pm today:

                      Have a read of this, coming from someone who was involved in early discussions about Dotcom’s “Internet.Party”:

                      http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/02/13/on-russel-norman-and-the-internet-party/

                      “The idea to collapse the Internet Party if it hadn’t reached 5% by the ballot printing was always the plan. I don’t think people appreciate how much Kim loathes Key and Kim didn’t want to launch a political vehicle that wasted any votes or accidentally helped Key stay in power.”

                      There are NO DEALS, my friend, NO DEALS, that Dotcom would have made with the Greens, NZ First, Labour or anyone that is an MP from those parties.

                      You can bet on it that Peters went there to hear from the accused himself, what all the stuff about the illegal raid, the accusations, the ideas of an new party and so forth was all about. And Russell Norman met Dotcom at public events before, he would not be so silly to get too cosy with a man that still is somewhat controversial. He will also have wanted to discuss certain stuff about what happened, and what unintended consequences the “Internet.Party” may have on other parties wanting to get rid of this rotten government we have.

                      Dotcom is more of a libertarian by the way, so hardly a “lefty”. So what about the ones from “the right” who saw him, and what for?

                      Now let us ask again, what has Key discussed with well-known UK right wing political spin masters, with certain ones from Australia, with business leaders from here, there and elsewhere, and what did he discuss with Obama during his golf rounds??? Why does the media not dig into that, I ask? Because they are blind one eye that is!

                    • McFlock

                      @puke rogue

                      The opposition asked questions about a prominent New Zealander who was spied on illegally by the GCSB and is currently involved in several politically important court cases, including the current prosecution of a government MP?

                      That’s fucking fishy, MPs doing their jobs like that. I can understand how you as a nactoid would be expecting to see corrupt motives for competent work by an elected representative, but that’s just your fucked-in-the-head worldview.

    • Pascal's bookie 35.2

      Explaining is often losing they reckon, but when your explanation about ‘not spying’ is

      ‘nah, I’m mates with that dude who laughs at dead babies, is fighting a defamtion suit and says that politics is nasty so you have to be nasty in politics’

      then yeah, you’re losing.

  35. captain hook 36

    It cant have been slater following pweters as the trail of wail blubber would still be there.
    but moreimportantly donkeyohtay demanded in this mornings dompost that Peters tell us what they talked about.
    What the fuck is going on and why has this piece of crap had souch influence on NZpolitics.
    He is nothing but a thief and now a trouble maker.
    only in New Zealnd.anywhere else and he would have had the bums rush months ago.

    • xtasy 36.1

      YEP, captain hook, if C. Slater had got that information, he WOULD NEVER have held back with it for so long, and he would have USED IT, to promote himself and his blog, by publishing it!!!

    • Murray Olsen 36.2

      Not only in NZ. A Slater in Australia would be rich and invited to Abbott’s place via the front door. Look at Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones, or Larry Pickering. They’re all as bad as blubber boy. Then have a look at some of the rubbish on the internet in the US and A and remember who Bush would invite to BBQs at his ranch.

Links to post

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 hours ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 hours ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 hours ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    6 hours ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 hours ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    23 hours ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 day ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    1 day ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    1 day ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 day ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    1 day ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    1 day ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    1 day ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    4 days ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    4 days ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    4 days ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    5 days ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    5 days ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    5 days ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    5 days ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    6 days ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    6 days ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    6 days ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    6 days ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    6 days ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    6 days ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    6 days ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    6 days ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    6 days ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    7 days ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    7 days ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    7 days ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    7 days ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    1 week ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    1 week ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    1 week ago
  • Labour chickens out again
    When the government was elected, it promised to lead the way on electric vehicles, and specifically to make the government vehicle fleet emissions-free where-practicable by 2025.They lied:There are 15,473 vehicles in the government fleet and only 78 are electric. When the coalition Government came into power in late 2017, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Transgender extremism, violence at work against feminist meeting at British Labour Party conference
    by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Rebelling in Wellington
    Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • ‘The Workshop’ – Report: Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform: A Guide to Strategies that ...
    The Workshop is a charitable trust for public good. The Workshop undertake research to find ways of communicating that will build support for the solutions that work to solve complex social and environmental problems. See their Report on Talking about Poverty and Welfare Reform below. ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Exclusive language
    What is language? We generally assume that it a facility unique to humans, allowing us to share what’s in and on our minds. We can tell of our plans, our past exploits, our knowledge. It also allows us to lie. And yet there are vast numbers of people we can’t ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Corballis
    1 week ago
  • April 2018 – Submission to the NZ Govt Tax Working Group
    You can read our submission HERE ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • 2018 – Submission to the NZ Government Tax Working Group
    Read our submission here ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    1 week ago
  • Guardian: Poll shows DISASTER for Corbyn and the End of Times
    The Guardian - ever eager to forewarn of doom and disaster on the left - are leading with a new poll from Opinium, which puts the Conservatives 15% clear of Labour.Con 38% +2Lab 23% -1Lib Dem 15% -5Brexit 12% +1Green 4% +2This isn't good news, and it would be very ...
    1 week ago
  • How prostitution became the world’s most modern profession
    Being and Being Bought (Spinifex Press, 2013) by Kajsa Ekis Ekman  A synopsis and commentary of Chapters 1-2 by Daphna Whitmore Ekman, a Swedish journalist and critic, brings together a Marxist and feminist analysis of prostitution and surrogacy in this groundbreaking book She opens the discussion with a definition of ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Clever legal fellow on Scottish challenge to Brexit
    I make no claims to having much legal knowledge,  so I defer to those trained in this area.I am very much enjoying this twitter stream from m'learned friend in Edinburgh, deciphering the legal arguments around the Scottish court challenge to Boris Johnson, based on the charmingly obscure principle of Nobile ...
    2 weeks ago
  • An Open Letter From Closed Minds.
    Ivory Folly? The University of Auckland’s Vice-Chancellor, Professor Stuart McCutcheon, upheld the right of the radical nationalist group, Action Zealandia to exercise their freedom of speech – not matter how distasteful that speech might be. A wiser community of students and scholars would have nodded their agreement and moved on. ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Extinction Rebellion members want to “eat babies”
    If you are not convinced terrorist Organisation ‘Extinction Rebellion’ is very, very dangerous – watch this video at one of their recent meetings. Not only is this obviously mentally ill Woman begging the other terrorists to promote killing and “eating” babies and children, if you watch carefully other members nod ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    2 weeks ago
  • The government needs to tell people about the OIA
    The Ombudsman has been surveying people about their knowledge of the OIA and the right to information. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that widespread:The Chief Ombudsman says too many New Zealanders were in the dark over their right to access official information. Peter Boshier said an independent survey released yesterday on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Join the rebellion
    In the wake of last Friday's climate strike, Peter McKenzie had an article in The Spinoff about protest strategies. The school strike movement is "polite" and cooperates with those in power because that's its kaupapa - its led by schoolkids who understandably don't want to risk arrest. But there's more ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Jermey Corbyn, I don’t like GNU (sorry)
    So, the latest ruminations on the gnews from Westminster (Again, sorry; I'll stop making that pun right now).  This follows on from, and likely repeats bits of, my last post, on the suggestion that a Government of National Unity (GNU) should be set up and then oversee a referendum before ...
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • About time
    New Zealand likes to think of itself as not a racist country (despite being founded on the racist dispossession and subjugation of Maori). But for years, we've had a racist refugee policy, which basicly excludes refugees from Africa and the Middle East unless they already have relatives here. Now, the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Legal Beagle: Vexation, or Something Too Long for Twitter
    Several people have asked me whether a particular repeat litigant could be declared a vexatious litigant, in light of their recent decision to appeal an adverse High Court ruling. My nascent tweet thread was getting ridiculously long, so it became this blog post instead.The short answer is: no. The particular ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Zealandia’s Lost Boys.
    Appealing To The Past: Action Zealandia, like so many of the organisations springing up on the far-Right, across what they call the “Anglosphere”, is born out of the profound confusion over what a man is supposed to be in the twenty-first century and, more importantly, what he is supposed to do.THE STATUE OF ...
    2 weeks ago
  • British trade union and political activists defend women’s right to speak, organise
      The attempts of anti-democratic transactivists to (often violently) disrupt women’s rights organising is largely ignored by those sections of the left most prone to misogyny and authoritarianism in New Zealand.  In Britain, however, scores of trade union and left activists added their names to a letter in July, defending ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Turning their back on justice
    The Justice Committee has reported back on the Criminal Cases Review Commission Bill. The Bill would establish an independent, quasi-judicial body to investigate and review potential miscarriages of justice, and refer them back to the Court of appeal if required. It would be a vital backstop to our judiciary, help ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • US imperialism’s 40 years of war on the Iranian people
    by The Spark On September 14, a total of 22 drones and cruise missiles struck two oil installations in Saudi Arabia, the Abqaiq processing facility and the Khurais oil field. Abqaiq is the largest oil production facility in the world. For a few days afterwards, Saudi Aramco, the Saudi national ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • $47 billion
    How much will NeoLiberal irregulation of the building sector and subsequent leaky homes crisis cost us? $47 billion, according to a new book:The total cost to fix all of New Zealand's leaky homes would be $47 billion, probably. The estimate comes from a new book, Rottenomics written by journalist Peter ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago

  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 hours ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 hours ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 hours ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    10 hours ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • More prefab homes to be built as red tape cut
    The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act.  “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Further details of Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall visit to New Zealand
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has welcomed further details on the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall’s visit to New Zealand next month. Their Royal Highnesses will visit New Zealand from 17-23 November – their third joint visit to New Zealand and first in four years. They arrive in Auckland ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • O’Connor in Thailand to push for RCEP deal
    Minister of State for Trade and Export Growth and Minister of Agriculture, Damien O’Connor, heads to Thailand today to attend the final Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP) Ministerial meeting, as negotiations enter their final stages. “The RCEP Agreement would anchor New Zealand in a regional agreement that covers 16 countries, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Young Pacific people can access earning and learning opportunities in Hawke’s Bay, Otago and South...
    Pacific young people living in the Hawke’s Bay, Southland and Otago regions will have access to support services that have proved successful in helping young people find new earning and learning opportunities. “Tupu Aotearoa is about changing Pacific young peoples’ lives. Our young people are talented, they are smart, they ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Protecting wellbeing – ACC HQSC Trauma Forum
    Introduction As the Minister for ACC I thank you all for the work that you do supporting New Zealanders in their literally most vulnerable moments. From those who hold people’s lives in their hands, to the people who research technique, technology and trends, your work is highly valued. A special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ economy in good shape – notes prepared for speeches in Christchurch
    Notes prepared for speeches in Christchurch – Wednesday 9 October 2019 Today’s topic, “trends and opportunities for the New Zealand economy,” is certainly one getting a great deal of commentary at the moment. Looking across the media landscape lately you’ll notice we aren’t the only ones having this discussion. There ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • World Mental Health Day a reminder of the importance of mental health work
    Minister of Health Dr David Clark and Associate Minister of Health Peeni Henare say this year’s World Mental Health Day theme is a reminder of why the Government’s work on mental health is so important. “This year the World Federation for Mental Health has made suicide prevention the main theme ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Cultural Ministers Meeting
    Associate Arts, Culture and Heritage Minister Carmel Sepuloni will represent the government at Australia’s Meeting of Cultural Ministers in Adelaide this week. “This year’s meeting is special because New Zealand is expected to become an International Member of the Meeting of Cultural Ministers at this Australian forum,” Carmel Sepuloni said. “The meeting is an opportunity to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • 608 claims resolved by GCCRS in first year
    The Greater Christchurch Claims Resolution Service has resolved 608 insurance and EQC claims in its first year in operation, Minister Megan Woods has announced. The government service, which celebrates its first birthday today, provides a one stop shop to help Cantabrians still battling to get their homes repaired or rebuilt ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZ economy in good shape
    Today’s topic, “trends and opportunities for the New Zealand economy,” is certainly one getting a great deal of commentary at the moment. Looking across the media landscape lately you’ll notice we aren’t the only ones having this discussion. There has been an increasing amount of attention paid to the outlook ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • NZTA to refocus on safety following review
    The Government is acting swiftly to strengthen NZTA’s regulatory role following a review into the Transport Agency, and Ministry of Transport’s performance as its monitor, Transport Minister Phil Twyford said today. An independent review by Martin Jenkins has found NZTA failed to properly regulate the transport sector under the previous ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Joint Cooperation Statement on Climate Change between the Netherlands and New Zealand
    The Netherlands and New Zealand have a long-standing and close relationship based on many shared interests and values. We value the rule of law, our democracies, and multilateralism.  And we value our environment – at home and globally. Right now there are major global challenges in all of these areas – ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government putting right Holidays Act underpayment in Health
    The Government is putting right a decade’s worth of underpayment to nurses, doctors and other health workers, says Health Minister Dr David Clark.  Initial sampling of District Health Boards payroll records has found that around $550-$650 million is owed to DHB staff to comply with the Holidays Act. It’s expected ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Government accounts show strong economy
    A strong surplus and low debt show the economy is performing well, and means the Government is in a good position to meet the challenges of global economic uncertainty. “The surplus and low levels of debt show the economy is in good shape. This allows the Government to spend more ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Ministers approve application to expand Waihi mine
    New applications from mining company OceanaGold to purchase land in Waihi for new tailings ponds associated with its gold mines have been approved. Minister of Finance Grant Robertson and Associate Minister of Finance David Parker considered the applications under the Overseas Investment Act. Earlier this year, applications from OceanaGold to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Tuia 250 Voyage flotilla launches with tribute to tangata whenua
    New Zealanders in Tūranganui-a-Kiwa / Poverty Bay will witness Māori, Pākehā and Pacific voyaging traditions come together today as the Tuia 250 Voyage flotilla assembles for the first time, Māori Crown Relations: Te Arawhiti Minister Kelvin Davis says. “Tuia 250 is a national commemoration and an opportunity for honest conversations ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Visit to advance trade agenda with Europe and the Commonwealth
    Minister for Trade and Export Growth David Parker leaves tomorrow for Dubai, London and Berlin for a series of meetings to advance New Zealand’s trade interests.  In Dubai he will visit New Zealand’s Pavilion at Expo 2020 where construction is underway.  There he will meet Minister of State for International Cooperation, Her ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • More cancer drugs confirmed – even more on horizon
    Confirmation that PHARMAC will fund two new cancer drugs is further evidence of the good progress the Government is making to improve the treatment of New Zealand’s leading cause of death, Health Minister David Clark says. From 1 December PHARMAC will fund alectinib (Alecensa) for ALK positive advanced non-small cell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago