Mining engineer: Solid Energy’s decision is “irrational”

Written By: - Date published: 1:37 pm, November 24th, 2016 - 35 comments
Categories: accountability, disaster, health and safety - Tags: , , , ,

Via the NZ Herald:

A specialist in coal mine explosion prevention has called Solid Energy’s decision not to re-enter the Pike River mine irrational.

Engineer David Creedy prepared a report, which concluded it would be safe to cautiously enter the mine to look for evidence of the cause the blasts which killed 29 men in November 2010.

 

…

Creedy told the Herald “there wasn’t a lot of logic” in Solid Energy’s final decision not to re-enter the mine due to “potentially fatal risk factors.”

Going into an area with a high level of methane was standard, he said, and rescuers would use breathing apparatus.

…

Creedy questioned whether Solid Energy’s motivation to re-enter the mine was due to safety concerns, or financial or political pressure.

“Certainly there was no benefit for Solid Energy to go back in.

“They looked at the [coal] deposit and they assessed where the reserves they were interested in were, once they decided there was no reserve of interest then clearly there’s no positive benefit for them to do anything,” Creedy said.

“I wonder if they thought that coal was interesting in there, and potentially mineable, whether the outcome would’ve been different.”

A summary and risk management table from the report is available at the Herald website.

35 comments on “Mining engineer: Solid Energy’s decision is “irrational” ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Rae 1
    24 November 2016 at 4:16 pm

    Not irrational at all, not if you acting under orders from Work Safe, acting under orders from govt after you acted under orders from same govt in purchasing the thing in the first place, so that a number of steps could be put in place so that no-one ever knows what really happened there. Perfectly rational when you rationalize it.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1
      24 November 2016 at 4:35 pm

      Yep. When the objective is to prevent the truth from being known then it’s perfectly rational.

      • Terry 1.1.1
        24 November 2016 at 6:58 pm

        Why don’t the armchair experts, who say its safe, volunteer enter the mine ?

        [Banned one week for trolling, which is the only logical motivation for your drive-by flamebait. – Stephanie]

        • WILD KATIPO 1.1.1.1
          24 November 2016 at 7:40 pm

          OH ,… it was inevitable. And its its 1 9:33 in the evening , Ive just woken up , and I haven’t had my first coffee yet ,… should I say something?

          I will. I must.

          An idiot. One did at least hope that they would stay away from this issue and think before they posted. And … that’s… what… mines… rescue…. safety …. teams…. TRAIN … for….Duh.

          • Terry 1.1.1.1.1
            24 November 2016 at 7:56 pm

            if its safe to enter the mine, why haven’t the rescue team entered the mine?

            If however it is not safe to enter the mine, then what is the point in entering the mine to recover the bodies of long dead men.

            • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1.1.1
              24 November 2016 at 8:12 pm

              Yeah because leaving your relatives murdered bodies to rot under tonnes of concrete is the honourable way to go.

            • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1.1.2
              24 November 2016 at 8:33 pm

              why haven’t the rescue team entered the mine?

              Because they’re being prevented from doing so.

              There’s been volunteers (professional miners) offering to go in and get them right from the word go.

            • WILD KATIPO 1.1.1.1.1.3
              24 November 2016 at 8:37 pm

              @ TERRY

              ( Sigh ) It gets worse,… and I still haven’t had my second coffee,… you really haven’t been following the issue at all , now ,… have you.

              And this bit :

              { ‘ If however it is not safe to enter the mine, then what is the point in entering the mine to recover the bodies of long dead men.’ }

              1) Its this govt and Solid Energy/ Worksafe who say its not safe. This govt knows its dangerous , – but not for the Mines Safety Recovery Team – for them. They have very COMPELLING reasons to seal that mine and prevent any forensic evidence from coming to the light of day . Its called being ‘ complicit’ in a crime in some circles . ( btw – you can look that word ‘ complicit’ up at this point ) .

              Coffee!!! – can someone please throw the kettle on?

              2) The whole point of ‘recovering long dead men ‘ … is just that . Ever had a loved one die due to the incompetence of someone else? Do you understand how that fills you with …. a seething rage to see justice done?

              ( I have – my own 11 year old son because of gross medical incompetence . Didn’t help those incompetent doctors my sister was a nurse and I have a diploma in Science and Technology. Didn’t help Ive trained and worked in security and wasn’t payed to back down either. And time regards a justice issue means Zip. Jack squat . There is no end to a ‘cold case’. Period. ) .

              3) The Big One. Closure.
              I really didn’t feel like I had to share a part of my personal life’s story in public in order to have to spell this one out for you but I’m sure you’ll be grateful I did once I finish spelling out the basics for you . You know that sad feeling you get when you’re kitten or loyal dog up and dies because it gets run over by an uncaring motorist?

              Right. You’re with me so far ? OK then. Please try to keep up.

              Ok,… now multiply that feeling a thousand thousand times and THAT’S the feeling the family’s of the Pike River victims have had to live with for 6 long , Governmental inaction years. Its called grief. And part of the healing of that grief is called closure. And for those family’s ( most of them ) – closure happens when they can give their loved ones a proper burial

              4) Not only that , the lying , incompetent management was let off Scot free, ( refer Royal Commission of Inquiry – Pike River ) – and Worksafe had A LOT to do with that . And Worksafe is among the most bloody minded in wanting to get that mine sealed up to prevent access which in all probability will provide damning forensic evidence – which this govt , Solid Energy and Worksafe want to safely seal away forever.

              Especially this govt in an upcoming election year.

              OK … now second coffee on desk, still groggy , need coffee.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1.2
          24 November 2016 at 7:41 pm

          Are they saying it’s safe?

          I thought they were saying it’s a hazardous environment that can be managed with standard equipment and practice.

          If you volunteered, it would be an idiot who accepted your “assistance”. That’s my understanding.

  2. Ad 2
    24 November 2016 at 6:49 pm

    So Mr Creedy signs personal liability for every single future person who goes into a mine that has killed that many people?

    Like that QC, he’s all mouth and no trousers.

    [This is a needlessly inflammatory statement with no logical connection to the post. Do better in future. – Stephanie]

    • WILD KATIPO 2.1
      24 November 2016 at 7:42 pm

      Another one….( sigh)….

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1
        24 November 2016 at 8:03 pm

        We’ve become a gutless sheeple led around (by the nose) by over qualified paper pushers and managerial technocrats pretending to be the voice of commonsense. Present company excepted.

        • Terry 2.1.1.1
          24 November 2016 at 8:24 pm

          Good lord the arm chair Generals are out today. No doubt your Tory ancestor Generals were ordering the working class to their deaths at the Somme, while quaffing champagne and Foie gras at a Chateau well behind the lines.

          “Forward he cried from the rear, while the front rank dies…” Fucking Tory wankers. Only too happy to risk the working man for your own needs…

          • WILD KATIPO 2.1.1.1.1
            24 November 2016 at 8:48 pm

            ^

            Still doesn’t get it. Deflects from issues that hasn’t understood because hasn’t kept up with developments over last 6 years. Deliberately .Too politically tribal to even consider family’s in grief. Too much of a sycophant to give a damn about legal , ethical and moral issues.

            Ladies and Gentlemen ,… I present to you,… the circus side show act featuring the hilariously stupid and uninformed troll of the National party.

            • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.1.1.1
              24 November 2016 at 8:54 pm

              Terry is a bit of a loser. He must think all of us thick. One point though – where is Labour on this currently?

              • WILD KATIPO …
                24 November 2016 at 9:05 pm

                As far as I can see Labour need a boot up the arse as well, Littles made some noise but not nearly enough. I understand there’s a media blackout in effect, with the usual inanity in the Herald and on Stuff to act as diversions , and of course the recent earthquake…

                But you know?… you get the feeling in this country sometimes that if people had simple conscience about whats right and wrong, and doing whats right they would feel confident in speaking up in calling a spade a spade.

                Difficult for many to do after 33 years of duplicitous neo liberal governments, Im aware,… but still,…

                The problem with all this fear based mentality where every bastard is too scared to speak up is it creates a nation full of disgusting , servile , sawn – off wimps. The above National party trolls are ample evident of this ,… now.. 3rd coffee coming up.

                • Cinny …
                  24 November 2016 at 9:34 pm

                  Oh hell no STRONGLY DISAGREE, Damo has been all over it like white on rice, since the start.

                  He has stuck with those families and will until they get closure.

                  *Hands Wild Katipo a coffee, just the way he likes it*

                  • WILD KATIPO …
                    24 November 2016 at 9:58 pm

                    Cheers mate !!!

                    =]

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    24 November 2016 at 10:00 pm

                    O’Connor is a good local MP. His local MP efforts will certainly secure his West Coast Tasman seat. Won’t do much for Labour nationwide though.

                    • Cinny …
                      24 November 2016 at 10:07 pm

                      Sweet as Katipo.

                      CV, he sure is an awesome local MP.

                      Will wait and see if the weekend political shows on the telly bring more information on the topic. Super disappointed in NZ media this week for a number of reasons

              • mickysavage …
                24 November 2016 at 9:09 pm

                FFS CV Labour has been all over this for a while.

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    24 November 2016 at 9:57 pm

                    Yep, that was in my list of google searches. At no.3

                    • marty mars …
                      25 November 2016 at 9:36 am

                      riiight – so when you said “where is Labour on this currently?” you hadn’t even done a basic search. btw I took the link off facebook where it was prominent. Perhaps next time rather than chucking petrol on the fire, use your common sense and check before inflaming.

                      do you still get emails from labour? I do as a non member! and they are very helpful in keeping me up to date with their thinking. Also a search on their website may assist you before you start pouring.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  24 November 2016 at 9:55 pm

                  I just googled:

                  Andrew Little Pike River

                  with a search timeframe of ‘past week.’

                  In order, the results I got are from:

                  1 – whaleoil
                  2- thestandard
                  3- labour.org.nz
                  4- thedailyblog
                  5- Andrew Little facebook
                  6- newshub
                  7- kiwiblog
                  8- parliamenttoday
                  9- parliamenttoday
                  10- scoop.co.nz

                  • marty mars …
                    25 November 2016 at 9:42 am

                    you don’t seem to understand why searches pull up those results. There is a whole industry related to this – my search for this resulted in “About 10,300,000 results (0.39 seconds)”. Here’s an example,

                    “When I first started as a webmaster, there were numerous search engines around. Nowadays, though, we are, for the most part, left with only Google and Bing, with Google providing the majority of visitors to most websites, including thesitewizard.com. This article provides some tips on how you can improve the position of your site in the search engine results on Google.

                    Improving Your Site’s Placement on Google’s Search Engine Results
                    Google ranks a page according to a large number of factors. Exactly what these factors are is apparently a trade secret, although there are number of well-known things that contribute to the ranking of a page.”

                    that is from number 3 https://www.thesitewizard.com/archive/google.shtml

                    It may pay to do some extra learning (Otago has some very good learning institutions – do a practice search and see how many hits you get!!!) so you don’t make these basic errors again.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      25 November 2016 at 10:07 am

                      When people search for Andrew Little and Pike River, this is the list they get. Your detail, while interesting about how and why that occurs technically, doesn’t change that.

                    • marty mars …
                      25 November 2016 at 10:54 am

                      yes and the list is only spoiled by the 2 right wing blogs isn’t it – if they weren’t there the list would look impressive wouldn’t it. And they are there because they use techniques (like cat videos or adding a famous person link or etc) to bolster their position with search engines.

                • mosa …
                  25 November 2016 at 10:06 am

                  Wish some journalist with balls and integrity and impartiality had Mickey.

          • Cinny 2.1.1.1.2
            24 November 2016 at 9:58 pm

            Pssst… Terry… trying being informed rather than just opinionated…

            You’ve been given loads of info and still you display the need to change the narrative. This particular piece of dialogue you wrote only makes you look very very stupid.

            Just thought I’d let you know.. because I’m helpful like that.

            BTW one can always to do their research, especially to the most basic of questions, like the ones you initially asked by learning to use the search engines, personally I prefer the google engine best.

  3. Cinny 3
    24 November 2016 at 9:31 pm

    Isn’t fascinating after yesterdays massive announcement and gesture by Allied Concrete (MASSIVE RESPECT TO THEM), today we hear zip, zero. And last night that story was pushed to the back of the news.

    It’s like DANG, a concrete company contracted to fill in the mine refused to do it for moral reasons. They believe strongly enough in the evidence presented to them, and there is loads of it, that they are willing to turn down what is possibly their largest contract this year, and did it publicly, went against the government. Talk back was awash with praise of Allied Concrete, demonstrating just how strong public feeling is against Pike being filled in.

    Media is oh so quiet on this issue today, government uses other tactics to distract, they’ll be fuming and ever so embarrassed, as well they should be. But why would the media be keeping quiet about it today? Who is really pulling the strings?

    Shame one has to subscribe to read the Greymouth Star online, that is an independent newspaper, I’m sure they have some interesting stories on the topic. I’m off to the library tomorrow to have a look.

    This will be one of the issues that loses them the election next year, public feeling is that strong, and I don’t live in an echo chamber.

  4. WILD KATIPO 4
    24 November 2016 at 9:53 pm

    Time for a song , – and we need a whole lot more of this and a whole lot less of these disgusting neo liberals killing our workers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8KlKTZqp0g

  5. Gerald 5
    25 November 2016 at 7:29 am

    What more evidence is required to determine the cause of this tragerdy? The evidence is already known and the people responsible have got away without being held to account.
    The government allowed this to happen with its run down of the mines inspectorate and introduction of self policing systems. In fact this government seemed to be heavily involved with Pike River, John Key’s remarks about “surgical mining being the way of the future” and Gerry Brownley parading about the wharf at Lyttelton when a shipment of coal was being loaded are good examples of their involvment in Pike Rivers PR campaign.
    Pike River senior mangement was a discrace and was lead by stock market pressure and not mining best practice, so 29 lives dwere sacrificed.
    We owe it to the memory of the men killed and their familys to explore every way possible to get in there and remove their remains.
    No more mealy mouthed platitudes from John Key and his government.

  6. Scott 6
    25 November 2016 at 8:37 am

    It now seems there might be conflicting goals. The post above talks about going in to try and ascertain more facts about why the explosion happened, not to recover bodies. Maybe they are talking about a different types of incursion – to different depths.

    I think if it is safe to go in to get the bodies they should. If it isn’t safe to do that they shouldn’t. If the point is only to find out more about the cause, then I’d want it to be very safe as I thought we already know the issue was a combination of poor design, poor maintenance, and poor safety measures.

    I’m not going to pretend to know which set of experts to believe about the safety issue, but I don’t buy the conspiracy theories.

  7. mosa 7
    25 November 2016 at 11:23 am

    I did not believe in conspiracy theories until this government and John Key came in.

    When you have vested interests – big money -legal ramifications and the cause of a disaster resulting in a serious loss of life has not been explained and lax safety standards then its highly probable that you will have a cover up.

    The vigour and compassion and enthusiasm John Key displayed after the disaster promising the families everything would be done to get in and recover the miners bodies has disappeared into the etha and all you can hear the screech of the tyres as he back peddled away from this commitment to these grieving families and the men that have died at work here.

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